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Nancy Grace
Wisconsin Teen Goes Missing; Missing Mom Found in Hospital Stairwell; Prescription for Murder, The MacNeill Murder Trial
Aired November 07, 2013 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, off the top to Wisconsin. A school girl misses a school bus and rides her bike to school instead, and disappears into thin air. Tonight, where is Kathryn?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The search is on for missing 15-year-old Kathryn Stalbaum.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need the whole community to kind of pull together and...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Authorities says she missed her bus and texted a friend, saying she was riding her bike to Kettle Moraine high school, but she never showed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ve had detectives canvassing the area in general. We`ve had K9 units out in the area. We`ve had deputies on ATVs.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She may have been riding a teal Schwinn mountain bike, one similar to this, on a route she was used to taking, just two miles long.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kathryn is not an individual that has a history of running away. Her family has a good, close relationship with her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Deputies are going door to door, circulating flyers and searching the area, and they are asking for the community to help.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight: She goes into the hospital, San Francisco General Hospital, with a very simple urinary tract infection, right? She goes missing. Nobody seems to notice she`s gone. Well, 19 days later, she is found dead in a hospital stairwell. Who knew urinary tract infections could be deadly?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re not here to throw anyone under the bus. Our staff is devastated.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just want to know that this would never happen to anyone else.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happened at our hospital is horrible.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What sort of search did they undertake?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Today, raw emotion as friends of Lynne Spalding sharply criticized the San Francisco hospital where the body was found in one of the facility`s outdoor stairwells.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re here to take care of patients.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Only about half of the stairwells were searched.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... to heal them, to keep them safe.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s so many places around here that someone could hide or go or be disoriented or be in harm`s way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This has shaken us to our core. We don`t know what happened to this woman.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, we go live to Utah and the facelift murder trial. After their 6-year-old little girl finds Mommy dead in the bathtub and Daddy`s mistress is revealed, bombshell tonight. As we go to air, the state rests its case after MacNeill`s sexy love letters to his mistress are read out loud to the jury by his mistress herself. And in just hours, this case heads to the jury.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Know that I love you and have loved you from the day we met. I will work hard to keep your love for me."
Very shortly after 2009, we were indicted and separated.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So he wrote to you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, we wrote back and forth, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You called each other terms of endearment, correct?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What does it say right here?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "I love you sweetheart and will write again soon."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And how is it addressed to you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Dearest love."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And how did you address him?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Love."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you signed it how?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Love you, your girl." Prison is a very lonely place.
"Here`s (ph) when your letter arrived today, and I was so damn happy to hear from you."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What day did you find out that Michele died?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I found out on the 11th.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And how did you find that out?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: From a text.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A text from whom?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: From Martin.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You took pictures of yourself and sent them to him on the 12th.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I guess so. It`s been too long, but we`ve (ph) seen that evidence.
"You`re worth everything I go through to get you back in my life. I love you with all of my heart and think of nothing but a future with the two of us, never to be separated again."
You know, this is two years after she passed away. I don`t...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ll ask the questions, thanks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight, off the top, to Wisconsin. A school girl misses her school bus. She rides her bike, her teal Schwinn bike, to school instead. And she seemingly disappears into thin air. Tonight, where is Kathryn?
We are taking your calls. Straight out to Dan O`Donnell, news anchor with WISN. Dan, this doesn`t make sense. She lived less than two miles, I believe it was, from her home to the school.
DAN O`DONNELL, WISN (via telephone): That`s right, it`s less than two miles, as the crow flies, from her home in the town of Genesee, Wisconsin, which is sort of an outlying suburb of the Milwaukee area, and Kettle Moraine High School. She was last seen around 6:15 Tuesday morning. She texted a friend that she had missed her school bus and was going to bike to school instead. That was the last anyone has heard from her.
GRACE: Now, what time was that, Dan O`Donnell?
O`DONNELL: 6:15 Central time Tuesday morning, so just before school started.
GRACE: To those of you that are just joining us, take a look at the photos we are showing you. There is the Kettle Moraine High School. She left that morning after missing her school bus. Her parents say that she was on a teal Schwinn female mountain bike that she drove often and may have had with her her teal backpack.
She was wearing bright pink Nike tennis shoes, long brown hair, blue eyes, braces, wears contacts, possibly wearing jeans and a sweatshirt. She`s a freshman at Kettle Moraine High School. Take a look at Kathryn.
In just those two miles, every parent`s worst nightmare. They let her ride her bike to school. She`s never seen again.
Dan O`Donnell, joining me from WISN, what lies between her -- where she lives with both of her parents and her sister -- what lies between her home and the high school?
O`DONNELL: Well, there is a community park known as Wales Community Park, and there is a small body of water in that park, sort of like a retention pond. Now, the Waukesha County sheriff`s deputies have been searching that retention pond, not because they had any evidence that Kathryn was in the pond, but because they had done, or they had scheduled a training exercise, a dive training exercise, and decided to rule that retention pond out as a possible place where Kathryn might be by moving that training exercise there.
So the retention pond was searched. At a news conference this afternoon, no sign of Kathryn in that pond, in that park. However, we do know now that her bike, the Schwinn bike you were talking about, Nancy, has been recovered.
GRACE: Right, I`m hearing that in my ear right now, Dan O`Donnell. Let`s go straight to the news conference.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kathryn had left for school sometime at about 6:00 o`clock. She did not report to school, and so the school called the parents and left them a message, and the parents got that message when they returned home later in the afternoon.
And so they immediately began a search, and one of the parents actually stopped one of our deputies who were patrolling in their subdivision and flagged them down and made the report about 6:00 o`clock.
It is out of character for her to be out without having regular contact. So that`s -- and she has not been a runaway before. So all of those are the factors that have kind of led us to believe that this is a missing that we need to put a little more effort in and we need to kind of get out on these leads earlier because time is important.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Everybody, we are bringing you the latest from a news conference. For those of you just joining us, a little girl on her way to school -- she misses her school bus, instead drives her teal Schwinn bike to school. She`s never seen again. It`s just two miles. Let`s go back to the press conference.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s about two miles. The route is basically a suburban community in Waukesha County. The -- there certainly are fields and wooded areas nearby. But if she`s on her bicycle, she has no reason to be going through any of those densely forested areas that have a lot of foliage. That wouldn`t be necessary for her to do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: So he is saying, and that is law enforcement speaking, that there`s no reason for her to get near or into the densely wooded area on either side of the street.
Dan O`Donnell joining me there on the scene, joining me from Wisconsin, Dan, WISN. It`s my understanding that as we go to air, we`re getting word that they have found or may have found her Schwinn bike?
O`DONNELL: Yes. Sheriff`s deputies have said that they have found her bicycle, wouldn`t say where. But this was as a result of the searching today that has turned up the bicycle, and also the backpack was found in her locker. They believe that her backpack -- she never took it home on Monday night. But the bicycle -- this is very interesting -- was found...
GRACE: That`s what I was just going to get to, Dan.
Let me go to Justin Freiman. Justin, I wanted to address the backpack issue. I`m also hearing in my ear that they found the backpack in her locker at school. But the description given of her for this morning at 6:15 says that it was believed she had the backpack with her.
JUSTIN FREIMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): That`s correct, Nancy. All the descriptions given said that she was probably on this bicycle with the teal backpack. It`s only just now with the breaking news that we learn this backpack has been found inside the child`s locker.
GRACE: But that could mean so many different things, Justin. Go with me on this. If she was spotted or allegedly spotted at 6:15 with the backpack, and then the backpack is found at the school, that would mean that she did make it to the school, and something happened to her after that.
Dan O`Donnell, WISN, what about that possibility? Are there security -- is there security surveillance at the school where they would have seen her come into the school?
O`DONNELL: It`s not clear whether there are security cameras at the school, but I can tell you that Waukesha sheriff`s deputies have told anyone with a home surveillance system, security system, cameras on businesses in that route between her home and the school who might have footage of her -- they`re asking anybody with a security camera to review that footage and report anything suspicious, or whether they have seen her at all.
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Out to Kelly in Florida. Hi, Kelly. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I want to tell you that I love you and your kids. My question is, do they have any K9 units out?
GRACE: Good question. To you, Justin Freiman. What does the search consist of?
FREIMAN: We know that they`re getting helped by the local fire department for this search. And as we talked about earlier, there were divers in a local pond. But no word yet of any dogs on this hunt.
GRACE: Everyone, we are taking your calls. Out to Jason. Hi, Jason. What`s your question.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, Nancy. I got a quick question. Do we know if they obtained any fingerprints from the bike?
GRACE: I don`t know yet, Jason, because we`re just learning as we go to air that they have just found the bike. Very good question, though.
Unleash the lawyers. Joining me, New York, New York, Jason Oshins. Also joining me in Provo, Tanya Peters, trial attorney.
Jason, what`s so significant about the caller Jason`s questions is, if anybody forced her off her bike, their prints could be on that bicycle.
JASON OSHINS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Sure, they`re going to process that bike forensically for any DNA, you know, just going through that as hard as they can to pick up any glint (ph) of what happened to Kathryn.
GRACE: To you, Tanya Peters. There`s always a possibility that -- you know, at 6:15 in the morning, it`s still dark at that time in a lot of places. Somebody could have hit her and she goes flying off the road and the bike falls by the wayside. I mean, this could be a number of things, but there`s no reports of a hit and run. There are no reports of an accident, nothing.
TANYA PETERS, TRIAL ATTORNEY: That`s right. And you know, Nancy, the information that we`ve gotten -- you know, we don`t have the full picture yet. I`m curious to know, you know, where that bicycle was recovered. Was there damage to the bike? These are things that, you know, are questions in my mind.
GRACE: To Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, author of "Dealbreakers." Bethany, the parents are not speaking. Now, in this day and age, that is often deemed unusual, that they are not making public pleas to the press to help find their daughter. But frankly, if they are beside themselves and distraught, they may not be able to even think straight, Bethany.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Nancy, it is highly unusual that they are not coming forth with information. I think that there are so many story holes in this case. For instance, I`m wondering, was there a non-custodial relative living in the house? What were her on-line activities? Had she met somebody on line? Are there sex offenders in the neighborhood?
Why could they not identify whether or not she was wearing a backpack when she left the house? Did they, indeed, see her leave the house, and were they at home when she left the house?
GRACE: For those of you just joining us, urgent, the search for a school girl in Wisconsin, Kathryn Stalbaum, is on. She leaves this morning to go to school. She misses the bus. Instead, she hops on her bike and takes off. She`s never seen again. Tonight, where is Kathryn?
As we go to air, we have just learned her bike has been found, but still no Kathryn.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Authorities say this case is especially baffling.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This particular missing has some peculiarities that cause us some elevated concern.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was riding her bike to Kettle Moraine High School, but she never showed. Stalbaum was reported missing...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kathryn is not an individual that has a history of running away. Her family has a good, close relationship with her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She may have been riding a teal Schwinn mountain bike, one similar to this, on a route she was used to taking, just two miles long.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ve have detectives canvassing the area in general. We`ve had K9 units out in the area. We`ve got deputies on ATVs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: It was just two miles, less than two miles. This girl gets on her bike when she misses the school bus. She texts, she tells people, I missed the bus, I`m riding my bike. It`s just two miles. That`s less than a 10- minute bike ride. She never makes it.
As we go to air tonight, we are learning from reports out of WISN that the bicycle has been found but no girl. Take a look at Kathryn. Let`s show her pictures, Liz, please. She`s 5-7, 120 pounds, braces, jeans, sweatshirt, pink Nike tennis shoes, teal mountain bike, teal backpack. But now we`re getting reports that backpack was actually found back at school.
To Dan O`Donnell, WISN. Who saw her since yesterday other than her parents?
O`DONNELL: It`s not believed that anybody has seen her other than her parents when she left for school.
GRACE: But during the evening, after she got home, was she on line? Did she talk to people on the phone? What about a cell phone?
O`DONNELL: Well, she did send a text to a friend shortly before she took off on her bike that she was, in fact, going to be biking to school because she missed her school bus.
GRACE: Do both parents go to work in the morning? Had they already left for work?
O`DONNELL: I believe that both parents do, yes.
GRACE: So during the evening, was there activity on line? Did she call people on her phone? Is her phone missing? Have there been pings on her telephone?
O`DONNELL: As far as anyone knows, there has been nothing on her cell phone since she was last seen, since she sent that last text, no activity on any social media, simply no word from Kathryn whatsoever.
GRACE: That`s odd that she would turn her cell phone off on her way to school. There should be at least pings getting reception as she continued on.
Everybody, tip line -- I want you to hear this -- 262-446-5090 -- repeat, 262-446-5090.
When we come back, a San Francisco sheriff admits mistakes, big mistakes in a search for a woman who goes to the hospital, San Francisco General Hospital, for a simple urinary tract infection. She goes missing. She`s a patient. She goes missing in the hospital. Nobody seems to notice at San Francisco General Hospital.
Nineteen days later, she is found dead in a hospital stairwell.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just how could the hospital staff not find her?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The communications center staff responded, We`ll take care of it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With all due respect to the San Francisco Sheriff`s Department, who are responsible for security here on site at San Francisco General, the hard questions are really being asked of the sheriff`s department tonight.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is no indication that anyone was dispatched to that stairwell.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tonight, outrage, a San Francisco sheriff admitting mistakes were made in the search for a woman. She goes to the hospital with a very simple urinary tract infection. That`s all. She goes to the hospital -- this is a mother of two. She disappears. Nobody in the hospital seems to notice she`s gone. Nineteen days later, she`s found dead, dead in a hospital stairwell.
We are taking your calls. Straight out to Vivian Ho with "The San Francisco Chronicle." Vivian, this is amazing, incredible to me that you can go missing in a hospital and nobody noticed.
You know what, Vivian? When I was in the hospital with the twins, and we - - Lucy and I almost died, we were on separate ends of the hospital. I left. I had some person I don`t even know wheel me over -- I couldn`t even walk -- wheel me to the other end of the hospital to see the twins and I stayed there. And after a period of time, an alarm went off on the other end of the hospital, and security found me in the neonatal unit.
An alarm went off because they could not find me in my room. I didn`t know I was setting off an alarm. What the hey is going on at San Francisco General Hospital?
VIVIAN HO, "SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE": It`s definitely a really bizarre story, Nancy. You know, this woman came in just for a simple infection, and then two days later, she vanished. Nineteen days later they find her behind a locked door, a locked stairwell. An alarm should have been set off when she opened the door.
But she was behind there, and there are reports coming in now that somebody actually reported seeing a body or a person on that stairwell a few days before she was actually found. And no search was done after that report.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was determined that not all stairwells had been searched.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What sort of search did they undertake?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lynne Spalding, the mother of two, was admitted to the hospital on September 19th for a serious infection. Two days later, she vanished from her room, 15 minutes after being checked on by a nurse.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The hospital and the...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: This lady goes to the hospital with a urinary tract infection. They`re a dime a dozen. She suddenly goes missing. How do you go missing in a hospital? How does that happen? You`re in your bed one moment. The next moment, you`re gone.
Out to Clark Goldband. The fact that she was missing for 19 days and nobody could really get a handle on that? What happened, Clark?
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Nancy, almost three weeks, and when you go back and take a look at what authorities and reports say happened, it was a perfect storm of calamities.
First of all, let`s start at the beginning, when she vanishes, law enforcement searches the whole perimeter on the outside of the hospital. They don`t see her, they then go back some days later and conduct a full search of the hospital.
GRACE: Whoa, stop, stop, stop, stop. Did I hear you say they went back some days later? And what do you mean by perimeter? They walk around the outside of the hospital?
GOLDBAND: The grounds. They searched -- they searched inside and outside on the grounds. They didn`t see her. Now --
GRACE: You just said they searched the perimeter. Now you`re saying they searched the inside of the hospital.
GOLDBAND: Yes, they searched both.
GRACE: I`d like to see Clark, please.
GOLDBAND: They searched both, Nancy.
COSTELLO: So they searched the inside and the outside of the hospital?
GOLDBAND: That`s right.
COSTELLO: That`s what you said. Well, if they searched the inside of the hospital, why didn`t they find her dead on the stairwell?
GOLDBAND: Because they didn`t search the stairwell. They didn`t search the stairwell.
GRACE: Well, wouldn`t that be the inside of the hospital?
GOLDBAND: That would be, but Nancy, then the search intensifies and they go back and search inside the hospital and search some of the stairwells. This stairwell where the victim was eventually found was not searched.
GRACE: So they go back, you said some days later.
GOLDBAND: Yes.
GRACE: And search stairwells?
GOLDBAND: That`s right.
GRACE: OK. Well, to me, they should have searched stairwells to start with. That would be the first thing.
GOLDBAND: Well, check this out.
GRACE: Because if she were out on one of the floors, somebody would have seen her, one of the staff, so obviously she`s not on one of the floors in plain view.
GOLDBAND: Right. Right.
GRACE: OK. Go ahead.
GOLDBAND: OK. Check this out. The security system is down. Law enforcement and the hospital have to call the company that manufactures the security equipment and installs it to try and figure out why they can`t see the images on the hard drive. To top that off, when she first vanishes, hospital staff describes this woman as African-American. Law --
GRACE: Wait. Stop, stop, stop, stop. Dr. Bill Manion, medical examiner joining me out of Philly. I assume, Dr. Manion, you had to do your residency at a hospital. How come the sheriffs are looking for a black female? The hospital tells them they`re looking for an Asian female, when actually Lynne Spalding Ford is a white female? How could it have been screwed up so monumentally in a hospital?
DR. BILL MANION, M.D., MEDICAL EXAMINER, BURLINGTON COUNTY, NJ: Well, the only thing I can think, sometimes hospitals will use a code for a race. They`ll say, you know, one for black, two for Spanish, three for white and maybe someone mistyped a code. That can cause confusion.
GRACE: Whoa.
MANION: I really don`t know.
GRACE: So when you are looking for a missing patient I would think you`d check your facts.
With me right now, David Perry, a dear friend of Lynne Spalding and the Spalding family spokesperson, joining me from San Francisco.
Mr. Perry, I am so sorry. You know, my mom just, just got out of the hospital yesterday. And when I was at work, or taking care of the twins, I never had the idea, will she get lost and die in a stairwell in the hospital? That never occurred to me. How is her family reacting?
DAVID PERRY, FRIEND OF LYN SPALDING AND SPALDING FAMILY SPOKESPERSON: It is horrible beyond imagining. I mean it is difficult to -- it is difficult to imagine a situation of more chaos. And I really don`t use this word lightly, but more indifference than the case of Lynne Spalding. I mean, you know, I know you all don`t talk about age so I won`t, but, you know, Lynne Spalding was the same age as my mother was when she died, and I just know what it was like for me, and thinking about her two kids, taking their mom in for -- as you very wisely said, a very ordinary procedure.
And then having her disappear and then having her body found 19 days later. And now to find out in today`s paper, that we were told numerous times that a search had been done, and they didn`t even look.
GRACE: With me is David Perry, a friend of Lynne Spalding, and a spokesperson for the family.
A 57-year-old mother of two goes into the hospital for a simple urinary tract infection. Somehow she goes missing in the hospital which I don`t understand that. It`s a San Francisco General Hospital. They see thousands and thousands of patients a day.
Nineteen days later she`s found dead. We still don`t have a cause of death. And it just so happens somebody saw her by chance at the bottom of a stairwell.
Mr. Perry, what was your reaction when you learned Lynne is dead?
PERRY: Well, I know it sounds strange, but my first reaction was, oh my goodness, at least now we have the truth. Because we had been searching, her family and friends, outside the hospital. And I just want to make a clear distinction between the sheriff`s department which has been completely unsatisfactory and the San Francisco Police Department who helped the family for two weeks because they were told by the sheriff`s office that she wasn`t in the hospital. So we all looked outside the hospital.
GRACE: Mr. Perry --
PERRY: And when we heard that she was dead, I thought, at least now we know. And then when I heard --
GRACE: Mr. Perry, I am getting very disturbing --
PERRY: That she was in the hospital in a stairwell, it just turned to unspeakable horror.
GRACE: Well, that`s not the end of it, Mr. Perry, because we have gotten information, and I don`t know if the family has gotten this or not, that people heard a banging in the stairwell just before her body was found. In other words, that suggests that she was disabled and she had been laying out there in that stairwell for god knows how long banging to try to get somebody`s attention.
Yes, that is the latest that we -- and, of course, they`re not releasing cause of death, David Perry. So we don`t know what happened to her, David.
PERRY: No. The thing that is most disturbing and, you know, I mean, you do this for a living. You know how to investigate. Obviously they want to be careful about releasing the cause of death. But let`s be frank, if she was missing for 19 days, 17 days from the time she left her room, we all hope, especially her family, that she died a quick death. If indeed Lynne Spalding was laying on that stairwell dying from starvation or something else, I mean, it really is -- we`re not talking, as you say, about Kabul, we`re talking about San Francisco.
This is -- to describe the way that the Sheriff`s Department handled this as a Keystone`s cop episode is to give this a bit of humor when it doesn`t deserve any. This is a complete nightmare for which someone needs to answer.
GRACE: Tell me, how are her two children?
PERRY: They`re devastated. There was a memorial for their mom --
GRACE: I can`t even imagine.
PERRY: -- two weeks ago, which we were grateful. The press stayed away from, they gave us a sense of privacy. The kids really, you know, were surrounded by loved ones. Their mom was a wonderful, very popular person in San Francisco. Well known within the travel industry. And they were just beginning to get closure and then now to find out that maybe their mom laid there dying, that maybe someone saw her. And that now they find out that the people that promised them they were looking hard for their mom didn`t even look, it`s just a never ending nightmare for the kids.
GRACE: And for the rest of their lives they`re going to wonder when they go to bed at night -- you know, for most of us, the person you love the most in the world next to your children is going to be your husband and your mom. To think that your mother lied there for 19 days suffering. I can tell you this much, there should be a criminal action. I`m talking jail time for whoever is responsible for this travesty against this mother of two at San Francisco General Hospital.
And in lieu of that, since I don`t know if anybody has got the backbone for a criminal prosecution, I say sue their pants off.
When we come back, to Utah. The state rests in their case in the Martin MacNeill facelift murder trial. In hours it heads to a jury.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GYPSY WILLIS, MARTIN MACNEILL`S MISTRESS: I found myself in prison for two years as a result of being with this guy. And that was terrifying to me. Do not fear my loss, not ever, I have always loved you and always will. Let`s get married and shut these people up once and for all. He said, babe, be very careful with what you describe in your mail.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I worry about you all the time?
WILLIS: I did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you did worry. Correct.
WILLIS: It`s a scary place. I wish I could sleep for the next 20 months and do nothing but dream of being with you. That`s the --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you still have these letters?
WILLIS: I don`t know if I have this one, I have some.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`ve saved letters?
WILLIS: I have them in a box in the garage.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: In just hours, the Martin MacNeill facelift murder trial will be in the hands of a jury.
We are taking your calls. And it seems today as if the majority of the day was spent listening to love letters from Martin MacNeill, love and sex letters read out loud to the jury. Read by none other than his mistress, Gypsy Willis.
To the courthouse, we are live and taking your calls in Provo. Jim Kirkwood, KTKK.
Jim, what a day in the courtroom the state and the defense has rested. What`s the forecast? Go ahead, call it, Jim. Guilty, not guilty.
JIM KIRKWOOD, NEWS SHOW HOST, KTKK: I think if I were in Vegas and there were a line, I`d put a lot of money on guilty. This is a very red state, these are conservative people, and they don`t like any part of that, because I`m one of them and I`m with them. I mean this is horrible. I mean, you look at the behavior of Gypsy Willis, she says it was over, and he actually stringing him along to get money in her commissary account. She`s stringing him along because she`s lonely, and then she breaks up with him, I guess. This woman is unbelievable, she`s a matched pair with him.
GRACE: Let`s go in the courtroom. On the stand, the mistress reading sex and love letters sent by the husband.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIS: As far as giving up on you, how silly. I thought you had given up on me. Remember I love you more than you love me. As far as common law marriage, why don`t we just get married for real?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Based on this, he`s answering your query as to giving up on him, correct? "As far as me giving up on you, how silly?"
WILLIS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You were concerned he might gave up on you?
WILLIS: I must have made a comment to that effect. Stop worrying about anything to do with me abandoning you, it is not going to happen. You`re worth everything I go through to get back -- get you back in my life. I said, babe, be very careful with what you describe in your mail.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You told him to be careful about what he says in his mail, correct.
WILLIS: Because I didn`t want to have any problem with the prison.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m just asking yes or no.
WILLIS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you read this line?
WILLIS: I hope you know that I love you, and I think about you all the time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. So this is the reciprocity I was asking you about. You were not telling the defendant it was over, you were --
WILLIS: I was encouraging the mail, yes. I was lonely and it was wonderful to have some kind of support.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And here again you say, know that I love you.
WILLIS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the line where you say I`m happy to get your letters, even in sand script.
WILLIS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Meaning on his handwriting, I guess. You also say, I worry about you all the time.
WILLIS: I did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you did worry about him.
WILLIS: It`s a scary place.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Now remember this is after she swore under oath to a judge that the relationship with Martin MacNeill between them was over.
Unleash the lawyers, joining me tonight out of New York, Jason Oshins, defense attorney. And at the Provo courthouse, Tanya Peters, trial attorney.
First to you, Oshins. You know, this woman has given motive abounding, motive for murder. But I think because the state doesn`t have to prove motive, that the real battle will be a forensic battle between the medical examiners. Cause of death.
JASON OSHINS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: And, Nancy, you`re right on target. Motive is not part of it, but it`s part of the prosecutor`s story, as the commentator said out there, this is a red state. And this is what we believe in. So it`s playing to that audience, but it`s all about the medical examiner. And multiple times, the state ruled no cause.
GRACE: Wait, wait, wait. Did you say playing to the audience? That`s complete B.S., these are the facts that were handed to the prosecutor. They`re not making then up. They`re not playing anything. This is not a game, Jason Oshins.
OSHINS: I`m not -- Nancy, I`m not saying they`re --
GRACE: If anybody played anybody, it was MacNeill playing his family.
OSHINS: Nancy, I`m not saying they`re making anything up. I`m saying that story plays to the audience. That might not jive with the medical examiner and the actual facts to determine death, but it works for the jurors.
GRACE: Out to Tanya Peters, trial attorney joining me there at the Provo courthouse.
Tanya, weigh-in.
TANYA PETERS, TRIAL ATTORNEY: Well, I think we`re going to have a very interesting 48 hours in front of us. Both prosecution and defense are going to give their closing arguments, and then the case is going to go to the jury.
GRACE: Everybody, when we come back, Jason Poirier testified against MacNeill. Recall he was behind bars with MacNeill. He is taking your calls.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: In just hours, this case heads to the jury and we will be in a verdict watch here at HLN.
Straight to Jason Poirier who testified against MacNeill at trial.
Mr. Poirier, thank you for being with us. You know a lot of people have argued that you`re getting some kind of a benefit for testifying against MacNeill when in fact this could do you a lot of injury, a lot of harm.
JASON POIRIER, TESTIFIED AGAINST DOCTOR: Yes, that`s pretty true. I didn`t really get anything out of this. I was actually sentenced already on the (INAUDIBLE) but I was serving time on. And then --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: What was it -- what was it like, Jason, when you`re in court and you testify and you look to MacNeill in the face and testified about how he talked about getting away with murder?
POIRIER: It was pretty horrifying, but I wanted to see justice served.
GRACE: During your time behind bars with MacNeill, what was the most disturbing thing that he said to you?
POIRIER: I`m glad that -- yes, I`m glad she`s dead, but with the B word.
GRACE: You mean when he said, "I`m glad the bitch is dead"?
POIRIER: Yes, I didn`t know if I could speak like that on the air so --
GRACE: What was your response when he said that?
POIRIER: I kind of went into mode, I just sat there for minutes. Staring at him.
GRACE: How did you manage to end up testifying at this trial? Did prosecutors come to you? Did they find you?
POIRIER: No, I talked to a lawyer I had, and I told him what I knew.
GRACE: When you looked at him today, did he look you back in the eyes? Would he even meet your gaze?
POIRIER: Today? I wasn`t at the courthouse.
GRACE: No, when you were testifying.
POIRIER: I could feel his -- I could feel his gaze upon me, yes.
GRACE: With me, everyone, is Jason Poirier, who testified against Dr. Martin MacNeill. You know, the point where he said that he was getting away with murder, you know, it`s my understanding when you were testifying to that, the jury was hanging on your every word. Did you ever make eye contact with that jury during your testimony?
POIRIER: No, I was pretty nervous. I didn`t really know what to do. It was my first time ever doing something like this. Being in a situation like this. I just wanted to answer the prosecuting attorney`s questions.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. In just hours this case heads to the jury. The Martin MacNeill facelift murder trial.
With me, Jason Poirier, who testified against Martin MacNeill.
Jason, thank you for being with us. Tell me, Jason, why did you ask to have your jail cell switched so you would no longer be near Martin MacNeill?
POIRIER: No, I just didn`t want to be around with someone like that. Usually with the guys like with my crime are not housed with people like him. Mine was more class A`s and heavy stuff. His were more big-time thing so they usually house those guys in a motor, strict facility. So when I found out that`s what he was in there for, and he said those stuff to me, I just -- I had to be moved. I couldn`t believe the jail put us together like that.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Jason Oshins, Tanya Peters, also with us, Bethany Marshall. First of all to you, Jason, I`m sure you`re going to say he`s got a record, he`s a snitch, there`s something in it for him, but all that could be said about Martin MacNeill, who decided he didn`t have the guts to take the stand. So at least this guy got up there and said what he knew.
OSHINS: No, Nancy, Jason Poirier is a choirboy, he`s in a prison because he`s a good guy and not looking to work off his time. Of course he is. They`re all going to say whatever they can once they`re in prison.
GRACE: Well, they all are.
OSHINS: Anyone who`s going to testify at a trial is looking to get something out of it, Nancy.
GRACE: You know what, though --
OSHINS: You know that.
GRACE: Bethany Marshall, Bethany Marshall isn`t this really a case of the pot calling the kettle black? Because who`s Martin MacNeill to say that Poirier is a bad guys. He`s the one that`s already done in the federal pen. Now he`s looking at a murder charge.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": Well, you know what, at least Jason Poirier did not collude with Martin MacNeill which is vastly different than what we saw with the mistress on the stand who joined up with Martin MacNeill on the basis of mutual test -- psychopathology. They ploughed each other up, they colluded with each other, they liked each other, they gratified each other. And at least there`s someone on the stand who is standing up to this guy.
GRACE: Let`s stop, everyone. And remember, American hero, Army Staff Sgt. Brian Piercey, 27, Clovis, California, Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Army Commendation medal, National Defense Service medal. Loved the piano and his Volkswagen Beetle. Parents Thomas and Carol, brothers Eric and David, wife, Christina.
Brian Piercey, American hero.
Court is done for the day, as we head into a verdict watch. Dr. Drew up next.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
