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Nancy Grace
MacNeill Guilty in Facelift Murder Trial
Aired November 11, 2013 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live to Utah and the facelift murder trial. After their 6-year-old little girl finds Mommy dead in the bathtub and Daddy`s mistress is revealed, bombshell tonight. A Provo jury works into the wee hours, 3:00 AM Eastern, until, finally, they hand down a verdict in the Martin MacNeill murder trial, guilty.
Tonight, with us live and taking your calls from Provo, MacNeill`s daughter, Alexis, who took the stand against her father, the state prosecutors, and tonight, the renowned medical examiner who helped turn the tide, Dr. Joshua Perper.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: State of Utah versus Martin (INAUDIBLE) MacNeill, we the jury, having reviewed the evidence and testimony in the case, find the defendant as to count one, murder, guilty. As to count two, obstruction of justice, guilty.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can`t believe this has finally happened. There is justice for my mom.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As to count one, murder, guilty. Juror number nine, was this your verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Juror 21, was this your verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Juror 29, was this your verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Juror 43, was this your verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Juror 60, was this your verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Juror 64, was this your verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Juror 67, was this your verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re just grateful that they -- they looked at the evidence. They were able to see the story. They were able to see what my father did.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re just so happy he can`t hurt anyone else!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. A Provo jury works into the wee hours, 3:00 AM Eastern, until, finally, that jury hands down a verdict in the Martin MacNeill facelift murder trial, guilty.
Tonight, with us live and taking your calls from Provo, MacNeill`s daughter, Alexis, who took the stand. We saw her in agony as she testified against her own father. Also with us tonight, taking your calls, the prosecutors who led this case all the way to a jury after years following Michele MacNeill`s murder, and tonight, the renowned medical examiner who helped turn the tide in this case, Dr. Joshua Perper.
To everyone, welcome. First, straight out to Provo, standing by, Jean Casarez. Jean, that jury worked until 3:00 AM Eastern. Did you believe they were going to hand down a verdict?
JEAN CASAREZ, HLN LEGAL CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): You know, Nancy, they just didn`t want to give up, and in the wee hours of the morning, the middle of the night, we learned there was a verdict.
So the courtroom was filled to capacity. I mean, people just got there as fast as they could. And the jury entered. They were so stoic, so serious, walking straight past Martin MacNeill. Not one of them looked at him. They went into that jury box, and then that verdict was read, and it was guilty.
GRACE: Everyone, we are taking your calls. Take a look at what went down in that Provo courtroom around 3:00 AM Eastern.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: State of Utah versus Martin (INAUDIBLE) MacNeill, we the jury, having reviewed the evidence and testimony in the case, find the defendant as to count one, murder, guilty. As to count two, obstruction of justice, guilty. Dated this 9th day of November.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: It actually hurts me to see the family crying in a mixture of pain and relief, I imagine is their feeling. But we don`t have to imagine because joining me right now is Alexis Somers, the daughter we`ve all heard so very much about. With me, Alexis Somers, the daughter of Martin and Michele MacNeill. Alexis, thank you for being with us.
ALEXIS SOMERS, MACNEILLS` DAUGHTER: No problem.
GRACE: When that verdict was read and you heard "guilty," I know that that`s going to be a moment that you are going to remember the rest of your life because I know I do. When I found out what the verdict was in my fiance`s murder -- I will never forget finding that out, that moment, and it was bittersweet because even the verdict couldn`t bring him back.
I want to hear your thoughts. What went through your mind and your heart and your body when you heard "guilty"?
SOMERS: Nancy, it was just so surreal. This was a culmination of over six years, you know, fighting to get justice for my mother. And I was shaking. Emotions just flooded out of me, and I couldn`t -- I couldn`t stop sobbing.
GRACE: Was it a feeling of -- I don`t think it could be joy, but maybe it was. Was it relief? Was it exhaustion? What was it?
SOMERS: It was a combination of a lot of things. It was -- it was so much relief. I felt like the weight of the world had been lifted off of my shoulder, thanks to these wonderful men sitting next to me, the prosecutors, the investigators, people who believed -- believed -- believed us and fought for justice for my mother. She finally has justice.
GRACE: Well, Alexis, I agree with you about the gentlemen sitting next to you. But I want to point out they would never have even come to light if you hadn`t fought for your mother. If you had not been the soldier for her on this earth after she had already gone on, none of this would have happened. Alexis Somers, the daughter of Martin and Michele MacNeill, is joining us.
Also with us, the prosecution team, including the lead attorney, Chad Grunander, Jared Perkins, Sam Pead. Gentlemen, thank you so much for being with us. I`m going to start with Chad, the lead prosecutor.
Gentlemen, we were all on pins and needles throughout the whole trial because -- not that I ever had any doubt in the evidence or in your capabilities. You`ve got an excellent reputation. It`s just that after O.J. Simpson, after tot mom, after so many other cases, after the jury in Jodi Arias deadlocked at sentencing, it doesn`t seem to matter how clear the evidence is sometimes.
I want to hear your thoughts going into this trial and your reaction, Chad, when you heard "guilty" announced in that courtroom.
CHAD GRUNANDER, LEAD PROSECUTOR: You know, our thoughts going into the trial is we acknowledged from the outset that there would be some pretty significant challenges in this case. A lot of the evidence was circumstantial, although the inmates helped the evidence a bunch and it really added to the case because it painted a picture about exactly how Michele died on April 11th, 2007.
GRACE: Yes, the real MacNeill. You know, it painted a picture, Chad, I thought, of the real Martin MacNeill because he wants the world to think he`s a doctor, a lawyer and a Mormon Sunday school teacher, which is all true, but really, only his only daughters behind family closed doors and in that jailhouse did the real Martin MacNeill show his face. They knew him like nobody else did other than his daughters.
GRUNANDER: They did. And I think, you know, his actions speak louder than words. His actions are what really tell the story about who this man is. And if you look at his conduct with his mistress, Gypsy Willis, shortly before Michele`s death, his pushing for the surgery, the first overdose, the fact that Michele`s progressing well, she`s feeling just fine, and as soon as Alexis leaves, she`s dead the next morning and in the bathtub, and then he moves the mistress into the home just a couple of weeks later...
GRACE: You know what?
GRUNANDER: Those are telltale signs.
GRACE: Chad, you just brought up a really good point. I really loved it when you guys showed the jury and pointed out to them -- I mean, there was so much evidence, and you really refined it for closing arguments -- that when you pointed out, Look, the moment he gets alone with Michele, the first time, she was basically comatose. And Alexis came in and says, What happened to Mother? He overdosed her then. Then the very moment he gets Alexis to finally to go back to medical school, boom, she`s dead.
It`s just -- the two times -- the first moment he can be alone with her, she said -- hold on, Chad. Our phones are ringing off the hook.
Let`s go out to Michelle in California. Hi, Michelle. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. I`m grateful for the conviction, and I really pray for the family, that they can find peace now. But I`m also concerned about Giselle (ph), the sister who was sent back to the Ukraine by her evil father. Were they ever able to bring her home after he stole her identity?
GRACE: Excellent question. Out to Jared Perkins, who is also on the prosecution team. Jared, what about Giselle?
JARED PERKINS, PROSECUTOR: My understanding is that she was brought home. I believe one of her cousins went out to the Ukraine to retrieve her and bring her home.
GRACE: You know, Alexis Somers, we`ve got so many questions, I hardly even know where to start. Alexis, am I correct, you went ahead, you got your medical degree, and you`ve married and had twins?
SOMERS: Yes. I got married a little over three years ago, and had twins the day before opening arguments.
GRACE: Wow. Alexis, just a question. When you got married without your mother there, what was that like? I cannot even imagine that.
SOMERS: Every holiday, every joyous event, there is sadness because our mother isn`t there. But we always have a picture of my mother with a candle going. And you know, she -- she lives inside of us, so we try to keep her alive the best we can.
GRACE: Also with me, Sam Pead, also on the prosecution team. OK, Sam Pead, I don`t want to ask the obvious, but what is so special about Gypsy Willis? I mean, no offense. And I`ve always heard that men cheat down. Look at his wife! She`s gorgeous. She`s beautiful. She`s beautiful on the inside and the outside. She`s an actual beauty queen.
And then he cheats on Gypsy -- with Gypsy Willis? I -- I -- I don`t get it. You met her. You guys had to deal with her for her testimony. And by the way, I thought she was hedging the whole way through her testimony.
But Sam, what is it? Does she have some charismatic personality that I did not notice?
SAM PEAD, PROSECUTOR: You know, I think I`m ill-qualified to answer this question because I don`t see it, either. Michele was a beautiful woman. He had a beautiful family. It`s -- this case is a huge tragedy in that sense. And so I don`t know what he saw. Maybe it`s something different. I don`t know if there was a little more sexual exploration or something there. I don`t frankly know, but it doesn`t make sense to me.
GRACE: Everyone, we are live in Provo and taking your calls. I want to go back to Alexis Somers. Alexis, you gave your testimony on the stand, and we were riveted. I mean, I felt that I already knew you and had studied so much about the case. But what was it like when you finally were in the witness chair and you were looking at the jury?
That`s a lot different than just talking to me over the airwaves or talking to the prosecutors. What was it like when you were finally up there and -- and trying to tell them what happened?
SOMERS: You know, I was just trying to be honest and remember everything the best I could. It was very -- very nerve-racking because I wanted -- I wanted to tell the truth, and I wanted the jury to be able to understand my testimony, and believe what I had to say.
I was looking at these people that were going to be deciding this fate, and I was just so concerned and hoping that they would -- they would see my testimony for what it was and be able to convict my father.
GRACE: Alexis, I know this is going to be a hard question, but what moment in time, if there is that defining moment, that you realized or first suspected that your father murdered your mother?
SOMERS: It was as I was driving to the airport. And I -- I was talking and -- you know, I had just been told that my mother`s in the bathtub and to come home, and I dropped everything. I got in my car, and I just started screaming, He killed her. He killed her.
I just knew. I knew right away that he had done that. My mother had told me if anything happens to her, make sure it wasn`t my father, and I knew it was him.
GRACE: That last day, Alexis Somers, that you saw your mother, did you have any feeling of foreboding at all when you left to go back to medical school?
SOMERS: No, I didn`t. I mean, she was doing really well. I wouldn`t have left if she hadn`t been doing well. You know, I just remember hugging her and giving her a kiss and walking into the airport. And you know, I definitely couldn`t imagine or dream what would happen, you know, just a few hours later.
GRACE: Alexis -- Alexis, I can still remember the very last moment that I saw my fiance before he was murdered. He was driving away. I was waving. He held his arm out the window and kept driving.
Do you remember the last moment that you looked back and you saw your mom before you said good-bye?
SOMERS: I -- I vividly remember it. I was walking in to the airport, and I turned and I waved and I smiled, and she smiled at me.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. We are live in Provo and taking your calls. As you all know, legal eagles, a verdict was handed down in the case against Dr. Martin MacNeill, on trial for the murder of his wife, the mother of his eight children, Michele MacNeill.
We are taking your calls from Provo. Matt Zarrell, you and I have theorized that a lot had to do with that final rebuttal closing by the state. Why was it so strong?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Nancy, there were a number of factors in the state rebuttal closing, particularly Mr. Perkins making a point of saying that the medical examiner only tells you half the story, that you have to look at all of the other information. Also included, the three questions that proved murder, I also thought were very significant, in the rebuttal closing, Nancy.
GRACE: Take a listen to what went down in that rebuttal statement.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PERKINS: This is not a case that is going to be defined and decided by you based solely on medical evidence. It can`t be. There are limitations in the science, period. I mean, we`re not -- we haven`t solved all of the mysteries of the human body and the processes that occur after death. And so for example, post-mortem redistribution -- the testimony on that is that it`s a phenomenon that`s poorly understood. You can`t do studies on people that kill the people so that you can see exactly what happens and how those drugs redistribute.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The defendant carried out a cold and calculated plan to murder his wife.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Guilty.
DR. JOSHUA PERPER, MEDICAL EXAMINER, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: My opinion was that Michele died as a result of drowning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Give Michele the drugs, fix her up a bath, get her in the tub, hold her head down for a little while, and help her out.
PERPER: It was clear that she was in pain and a significant amount of water.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Guilty.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s about the truth in the administration of justice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. We are joining you, camped out at Provo, bringing you the latest. For all of you just joining us, a jury hands down in the Martin MacNeill facelift murder trial in the wee hours, 3:00 AM Eastern.
With us tonight, taking your calls, not only the prosecution team but daughter of Michele MacNeill, Alexis, is with us -- Alexis now Somers. Also with us, renowned medical examiner Dr. Joshua Perper.
Out to the lines. Sally in Kentucky. Hi, Sally. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. Well, I just really want to make a comment. I am so thrilled with this verdict, and this is the first time since O.J. that I`ve been wrong. And I truly admire the prosecutors and I thought their facts were excellent.
But I got a little bit bored with their -- you know, their process of that -- in their closing. I thought they went on a little long and I was scared to death that, you know, the jury would get bored with it or (INAUDIBLE) it wasn`t exciting enough. And thank goodness, this is a wonderful verdict and I`m thrilled.
GRACE: Sally, did you have a question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. That`s it, Nancy. Thanks for all you do.
GRACE: No, thank you, Sally.
And I`m going to throw that to Chad Grunander. Chad, the thing about going on too long, or as a lot of defense attorneys like to say, overkill by the prosecution, or as Sally in Kentucky, I thought it went on too long -- here`s the deal. When you`re a prosecutor, you know this is your one swing at the ball, your one bite of the apple.
I always felt that you should go with too much than try to cut corners and make a mistake that you`ll regret the rest of your life. So you know what? Have at it. Take that extra time. Pour it on because you may not get another chance, and you may not get the outcome you want.
GRUNANDER: Given the nature of this case, Nancy, the fact that a lot of the evidence was circumstantial, we had to tie together a lot of pieces. And so it took a significant amount of time to do that. We were in trial for about three-and-a-half, four weeks.
The jury had been very attentive. And one of the things as trial attorneys we do is we try and gauge the jury. They were very attentive. They were making eye contact. They were tracking the conversation, if you will. I was attempting to almost have a conversation with them.
And so I think it ultimately proved effective. I think there can be some overkill. But this was a big case, a lot of pieces to string together.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: State of Utah versus Martin (INAUDIBLE) MacNeill, we the jury, having reviewed the evidence and testimony in the case, find the defendant as to count one, murder, guilty. As to count two, obstruction of justice, guilty.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can`t believe this has finally happened. There is justice for my mom.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As to count one, murder, guilty. Juror number nine, was this your verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Juror 21, was this your verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Juror 29, was this your verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Juror 43, was this your verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Juror 60, was this your verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Juror 64, was this your verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Juror 67, was this your verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re just grateful that they -- they looked at the evidence. They were able to see the story. They were able to see what my father did.
We`re just so happy he can`t hurt anyone else.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back. For those of you just joining us, the jury in Provo, works into the wee hours of the night, 3:00 a.m. Eastern, to hand down a verdict that many of us believe speaks the truth, that Dr. Martin MacNeill is guilty in the murder of his wife Michele, the mother of their eight children.
And joining us tonight, not only medical examiner Dr. Joshua Perper, but the entire prosecution team, and also with us, Alexis, daughter Alexis. She and her other sisters fought for justice since the death of her mother.
Straight to Alexis Somers, who is also taking your calls. Alexis, during the trial, did you ever meet your father`s eyes? Did you ever lock gazes?
ALEXIS SOMERS, DAUGHTER: He -- I think he tried hard to avoid -- to avoid my gaze, but I did look -- look at him numerous times, but we did not lock eyes.
GRACE: So he would never look at you?
SOMERS: No. He wouldn`t. I wanted him to, but he didn`t.
GRACE: I know you did. I know you did. Because you knew that you were right, and he could not even look at you. I noticed -- at the beginning of the trial -- the female lawyer on his defense team, who`s -- a pretty good lawyer. I noticed that they were totally canoodling there at the defense table, and, you know, I almost wish I hadn`t said anything. Because once I mentioned it on the air, she immediately sat, like, a foot away from him. But what could look worse in front of a jury than him sitting there talking and laughing with this female defense attorney in a trial like this? Alexis, were there some things you could say you -- that you were disallowed to say at trial? You could not tell the jury that you now can say?
SOMERS: Yes. I mean, there were several things that weren`t allowed in, for various reasons, but, you know, a significant thing, the statement that my mother made to me. If anything happens to me, make sure it wasn`t your father. That was not allowed in, and, you know, that was something that as soon as I found out my mother was dead, you know, I knew he killed her. Partially because of that statement. So that -- that definitely was something that wasn`t allowed in.
GRACE: Alexis, when your mom said that, what was your response?
SOMERS: I didn`t believe her. I said, mom, you know -- you know, I feel bad now that -- that I didn`t take it as seriously at that time, but I tried to just downplay it and say, mom, don`t worry about that. That would never happen.
GRACE: Were you -- were you convinced, Alexis, at the time preceding your mom`s death, in fact, your father was having an affair? Did you believe that at the time?
SOMERS: You know, I was concerned, because we`d uncovered this -- this name and this woman, Gypsy Willis, and my mom had confided in me, but it wasn`t until he said he found the perfect nanny, and then I said, Gypsy Jillian Willis? You know? Mom was concerned you`re having an affair with her and you`re not to bring her into this home. And that was a big turning of the tide. He brought her in. And made her the nanny, and that definitely led me to believe that they were having an affair.
GRACE: Alexis, what do you make of the defense`s argument that you and your sisters hated your father so much, for, I guess, what? Disinheriting you in the will? That you decided to frame him for murder?
SOMERS: No. I loved my father. I loved him for so many years and I would protect him and I would have died for him. I mean, he was someone that I loved, and it just doesn`t make sense. I was never in this for any other reason than to get justice for my mother.
GRACE: Alexis, during this battle, have you ever felt your mother`s presence with you? Have you ever felt that she was trying to give you a message of some sort?
SOMERS: No. I felt -- I felt her in the courtroom when the verdict was read. I mean, I felt a weight lifted. I felt -- a very significant amount of peace, and I know that she was -- she was proud and I know that she -- she was with us.
GRACE: With me now also taking your calls, Dr. Joshua Perper. The former chief medical examiner of the Broward County medical examiners testified for the prosecution. Dr. Perper, it is wonderful to talk to you, and we hung on every word that you uttered on that witness stand, and I was just so proud, Dr. Perper, to even know you, much less all the many, many times you and I have discussed cases. Whether we agreed or disagreed, you`re so impressive, and the way that you took a complicated set of facts. It`s very hard. It was for me as a prosecutor. To come into a case years later, when I would have to retry a case that had been reversed, that somebody else tried, say, 15 years before, you came into the case and you took it and worked with it. Then you explained it to the jury in a way that was so matter of fact and understandable. Dr. Perper, explain to us what led to the conclusion that Michele was drowned?
DR. JOSHUA PERPER, MEDICAL EXAMINER: Well, this was a very unusual case. Usually the diagnosis of drowning is very difficult, but in this particular case, it was a set of circumstances which made the diagnosis actually certain. That Michele, when they tried to resuscitate her, and unfortunately she was lifeless, when they compress her chest, she basically regurgitated large amount of water, and the medical examiners were not aware of that initially, at all. And even later on they were not.
And then when she was arrived -- when she arrived at the hospital lifeless, she was drained. Her airway was drained with, full of bloody water, and, again, this was a piece of information which the initial medical examiners were not aware of, and that`s why they say that the lungs were dry.
But the most interesting thing which really clenched the diagnosis was the fact that a week before she died, she had the surgery, and she had an analysis of her blood chemicals, and when she was brought lifeless to the hospital, she had such an analysis again, and it was possible to determine, that -- because of the difference, the concentration of those chemical, there was a large difference which indicated that her blood was very severely diluted, well beyond the liquid which she was given. So this really clinched the diagnosis with absolutely really no doubt.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Welcome back. For those of you just joining us, a Provo jury hands down the verdict of guilty in the MacNeill facelift murder trial. Out to the lines. Mary, in Virginia, hi, what`s your question?
CALLER: Hi, Nancy. I just wanted to say to Alexis, that she said her mom was the rock of the family, and I just want to tell her that she must be a big chip off that rock, because she is the rock of the family now, and it was through her steadfast beliefs in bringing justice to her mom that she held everyone together, and she persisted, and her mom must be so proud of her. I can`t even imagine.
GRACE: I agree with you, Mary. Mary, did you have a question for Alexis?
CALLER: No. I didn`t really. I just wanted to give her the congratulations on that.
GRACE: Agree. I agree with you, Mary.
Out to the lawyers. Chad Grunander, Jared Perkins, Sam Pead, the persecution team. To you, Chad, when you first got the case, what was your biggest concern?
GRUNANDER: I think the biggest concern we had was -- I was assigned the case when it was in the investigation stage, and we, at that time, just had medical examiners saying that this was a natural death. It was later determined to be undetermined, and then we were able to get Dr. Joshua Perper onboard, who assisted with that. But I think it was the medical evidence at first which was our biggest hurdle.
GRACE: Yes. You know, out to you, Sam Pead. When you know in your heart, in your gut, you know it was murder, and then you get the medical examiner saying it was an accident, and you know that it is not. That was a big concern of mine for you guys going into the case, the biggest problem was the fact that the original medical examiner did not have all the facts, and you`re stuck, through no fault of hers -- may she rest in peace -- you`re stuck with that decision of hers. And how did you go about fighting that, Sam?
PEAD: Well, I think that we -- we tried to hit on that repeatedly. In my opening we talked about how, you know, this is not a medical case. And medical science can`t prove this case one way or the other, and you have to look at all of the other circumstances. I hit on this hard on it in the opening and Jared hit it again in the rebuttal. We just had to demonstrate, that look at, look at all of these things, and those three questions that Jared brought up in rebuttal about, this cannot be interpreted in any way outside of murder. It`s that simple.
GRACE: You know, I like that. I like that, when that occurred in the closing statement. Jared, what was your thinking then?
PERKINS: Well, actually, I have to give Sam some credit for that. The night before when I was preparing that rebuttal, he sent me an e-mail suggesting those three questions in short form. So I worked them into my outline. And exactly what he said is what we were thinking about. There are certain things that, regardless of the medical evidence, could not be explained any other way, other than Martin`s guilt.
GRACE: And those three things were?
PERKINS: Well, those three things were, I`m going to see if I can remember them on the fly. I don`t have my outline in front of me. Why did he lie about the position of Michele`s body?
GRACE: Get rid of evidence?
PERKINS: Why did he destroy the pills? And why did the black book disappear? And then why was he lying about the plastic surgery, representing to everyone after she died that it was her idea, that she pushed for it and why would she do this when all the evidence from before her death indicated that he was the one --
GRACE: I remembered that, whether you do or not. That was one heck of a closing. That rebuttal was fantastic. With me here on the set is defense attorney Peter Odom, former prosecutor. You know, Peter, you and I went round and round on this case, round and round.
ODOM: Yes, we did.
GRACE: Truth be known, I agreed with you on a lot of it, because the problem was the science. The science.
ODOM: Yes.
GRACE: And it`s hard to get past a medical examiner`s opinion, not one but two, that this was not homicide?
ODOM: And this was largely a circumstantial case. The only direct evidence that he killed her was the evidence from the inmates that the prosecution called. Where he effectively said, I killed my wife.
GRACE: Yes.
ODOM: I thought where the prosecution did a brilliant job was in portraying this man as absolutely evil. The jury didn`t learn one good thing about him.
GRACE: Let me correct you. They didn`t have to portray him as evil, OK, because he is evil, and he did that all on his own.
Alexis Somers with us, this is Michele`s daughter, Martin MacNeill`s daughter as well. Alexis, when the verdict came down, when guilty rang out in that courtroom, did your father ever turn and look at you? Did he say anything?
SOMERS: No. No. He was very cold. I don`t think he expressed any emotion, but he definitely did not ever look at me.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We the jury having reviewed the evidence and testimony in this case find the defendant, as to count one, murder -- guilty. Juror number 9, was this your verdict? Juror 21, was this your verdict? Juror 29, was this your verdict? Juror 43, was this your verdict?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: For those of you who don`t already know, guilty is the verdict handed down by a Provo jury, late at night, 3:00 a.m. Eastern. You know, interesting, to you, Jean Casarez, 3:00 a.m. Usually you see juries pack up and go home. It could only mean one thing, they were close to a verdict.
CASAREZ: We knew that by the fourth question. They did have four different questions, and the question, the fourth one, was before we make the determination, we want to hear the 911 call again. So that was an obvious clue that they were very close, and it took some time to get that 911 call to them, but they listened to it. And it wasn`t very long after that.
GRACE: You know, you`re right about that. Out to Chad, the lead prosecutor. Chad, what do you think it was about the 911 call that they wanted to hear?
GRUNANDER: I think it was probably two things. No. 1, they wanted to be thorough in reviewing the evidence. No. 2, I think they wanted to confirm the fact that Martin MacNeill lied twice to 911 dispatchers about performing CPR, because he couldn`t perform CPR. And lastly I think they were looking at, was this man acting? Because every time he was around authorities, he portrayed himself one way versus when he was around neighbors or other people, so they wanted to see if he was acting. He was clearly acting on that call.
GRACE: OK, you`re listening to the lead prosecutor in the Martin MacNeill case joining us, and taking your calls. I want you to hear what turned the tide in that jury`s verdict of guilty, the 911 call. What does it tell you?
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The case is dripping with motive.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A mistress on the side.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Secret life with Gypsy Willis.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The defendant told her he never really loved Michele. Not like he loves Gypsy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: For those of you just joining us, a verdict was handed down by a Provo jury in the facelift murder trial. Martin MacNeill has been found guilty.
Back out to you, Jared, what`s the possible sentences in the case? When sentencing goes down?
PERKINS: Well, the statutory sentence for first-degree murder is 15 years to life. And what that mean in this case, if things go as expected, what that means is Martin MacNeill will most likely die in prison.
GRACE: To you, Alexis, it`s just so hard for me to believe that this is finally coming to a close. I know there is another phase to all of this for you beyond the sentencing in this case, but I remember, I remember when we were all talking about this way back when, and fighting for justice, and hoping this was going to be a trial, win or lose, that this go to a jury, to render a true verdict. Can you believe that you`re here right now? That it finally happened? He was finally brought to justice?
SOMERS: Nancy, I can`t believe it. I wake up every morning for the last two days and have to remind myself that it`s really over. I`m just so grateful that this is over and justice was served. Now, you know, I can move on, and my mother would want us to move on and focus on the good things that we have to come.
GRACE: Alexis, please know from the beginning when I and my staff first heard about your case, you`ve been lifted up in prayer so much, and you`re starting a beautiful new life with your twins. Thank you for being with us. To you and Dr. Perper and the prosecution team, finally, justice.
Everyone, Dr. Drew is up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp eastern, but on this Veterans Day, we honor our country`s heroes, the men and women that put their lives in harm`s way, some making the ultimate sacrifice for us and for our freedom. Good night, friend.
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