Return to Transcripts main page
Nancy Grace
Mother Tries to Poison Kids
Aired November 27, 2013 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SUNNY HOSTIN, GUEST HOST: We go off the top to Virginia Beach. A 26- year-old mother and her two children, just 4 and 5 years old, found unresponsive in the family condo. Inside the home, there`s evidence that someone tried to poison the family, including some mystery white powder sprinkled all over their food.
Well, who did that? The cops say it`s the mother. She tries to kill her own children by poisoning their favorite treats.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Virginia Beach police were at the home of 26-year- old Lorita Aiken. It`s in this home on Richard Road where police say Aiken poisoned herself and two young kids.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We still don`t know exactly why, but the mother put some sort of prescription medication inside the children`s food, and resulting in them having to go to the hospital.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No one expected the police to be here for a woman charged with poisoning her two young kids.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It started as a suicide call.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were called to a residence by a husband who had come home from work and discovered that his wife and his two young children were not responsive.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What you`re saying is true. That`s kind of strange because she`s real nice, always here with her kids, taking them to school and stuff, day care.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Aiken is charged with two counts of attempted murder and poisoning.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOSTIN: And tonight, we also go to the country music capital. A country star known for his outlaw Southern rock is gunned down at a popular Nashville bar. We learn Wayne Mills takes a bullet to the head as the bar`s owner claims self-defense. Outrage tonight. Was the country singer shot to death over a cigarette?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The death of Wayne Mills.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Country singer Wayne Mills fatally shot in the head.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A late night after-party at Pit and Barrel just down the street from heart of downtown Nashville.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The business owner asked him to not smoke in the bar.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The owner of Pit and Barrel tells police this argument all started over a cigarette, and took a tragic turn.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Altercation happened between the two of those guys which resulted in one person being struck with gunfire.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Fatally shot in the head.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say the owner, Chris Farrell, is friends with the victim and that he claims self-defense.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nashville police have not arrested or charged him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOSTIN: Also, to tonight`s missing in America. We go to Milwaukee, the mystery surrounding the disappearance of 27-year-old Kelly Dwyer, reported missing when she just didn`t make it to work at a nearby Lululemon. Surveillance video shows her entering an apartment building, but then she is never seen again. What happened to Kelly Dwyer?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Missing Milwaukee woman Kelly Dwyer.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her co-workers at the Lululemon store in the third ward called Dwyer`s mother to report the 27-year-old never came in to work.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is the most awful, incredibly horrible thing anyone could ever go through. I don`t know where my baby is, and I may never see her again.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The first place they searched is here at the (INAUDIBLE) They`re hoping to find some sort of clues of Kelly`s, like either a wallet or a cell phone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s definitely one of the most peppy and happy people you come across. She`s always, Oh, hi, how are you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Miles says he became alarmed about Dwyer`s disappearance when he heard she didn`t show up to work.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hopefully, they can put this to rest because it never goes away.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOSTIN: Good evening. I`m Sunny Hostin, in for Nancy Grace. Thank you so much for joining us.
We go off the top to Virginia Beach, a 26-year-old mother accused of trying to kill her own two children by poisoning their favorite treats.
Let`s go straight out to Bob Matthews. He`s a news anchor with AM 790 WNIS. Bob, I just don`t get this, a mother trying to poison her own kids. Get us up to speed. Tell us what happened here.
BOB MATTHEWS, AM 790 WNIS (via telephone): Well, Sunny, it all started last week when Lorita Aiken`s husband came home. And this was over the weekend, 5:00 AM early one morning, found both her and the two kids unconscious. And as you heard a couple of minutes ago, there was this white powder that was sprinkled all over food that the kids had been eating, cereal and ice cream, things like that.
Every -- all three of them were taken to a hospital in Virginia Beach. And fortunately, they`re going to all be OK. The kids are with their father right now, but Aiken is in Virginia Beach city jail and she`s undergoing a psychiatric evaluation. She actually told the judge yesterday that she has a history with depression and has been taking a number of medications, including Ativan, Wellbutrin, Ambien, things like that. So she`s in jail without bond for the foreseeable future.
HOSTIN: And let me get this right, Bob. Is it true that the alleged poison, these sort of prescription meds, were found on treats, not found just on anything in the house, found on things like cereal, found on chocolate bars, things that a 4 and 5-year-old just can`t resist.
MATTHEWS: Yes, ice cream, as well. Police confirmed yesterday that, in fact, that was the case, that they had found this -- you know, this powdered substance on these, you know, sweet treats that you would imagine a 4 and a 5-year-old kid would be all too -- all too willing to eat.
She also -- Aiken also told the judge yesterday in court that not only does she have a history of depression and she had been seeing a psychiatrist, but also that she had thought about not just suicide but taking her children`s lives, and in fact, she claims she tried to do it about a week beforehand.
HOSTIN: Oh! Well, my goodness. You know, let`s bring Sergeant Adam Bernstein. He`s a public information officer with the Virginia Beach Police Department, the department that is investigating this terrible incident.
Officer Bernstein, or Sergeant Bernstein, can you -- can you tell me how the police were even notified that this mother and her children were in trouble?
SGT. ADAM BERNSTEIN, VIRGINIA BEACH PD (via telephone): Yes, Sunny. Friday morning, shortly before 5:00 AM, we received a 911 call from Mr. Aiken, who is the husband of the suspect, Lorita Aiken. He came home from work and discovered his wife and his two young children all in the bedroom, and they were all not responsive. He also noticed that there was some food and prescription medication kind of scattered out throughout the room.
So he immediately called 911. Officers were dispatched, were on scene within three minutes. In the meantime, while he was on the phone to the dispatcher, he began to shake his wife and kids and try to get them to wake up and come to. And they were in the midst of kind of becoming responsive as officers arrived on scene.
Once officers arrived on scene, they were able to get all three, the mother and the two children, responsive, get them transported to local hospitals. The two children were transported to a local children`s hospital. The wife was transported to a different hospital. All three are expected to make a full recovery.
And like you said before, the wife is now being held in the Virginia Beach Correctional Center on two counts of attempted murder and two counts of adulteration of food and drink. And the two children are now back home with the father.
HOSTIN: Well, Sergeant, I mean, this is so unusual, right, a mother poisoning her own children and then attempting to kill herself. You know, what do you make of this? What has your investigation revealed? Is this a situation of revenge poisoning, perhaps domestic violence going on in the family, the husband trying to leave the wife and she wants to send a message to her husband that she`s going to take her kids with her and he`ll never see them again.
What is really going on here?
BERNSTEIN: This is an extremely unusual case. It`s the first type of case that I`ve heard of. I`ve been with the police department for over 10 years.
The suspect did give a full interview with the detective and gave her justification as to why she did these things. But unfortunately, I can`t get into her exact statements with the detective because it`s still pending in court and there`s a lot of things that are going to come out in court.
HOSTIN: Well, did she give any indication during the hearing as to what her motivation was, the open hearing that we can all talk about?
BERNSTEIN: She had a bond hearing. She did talk about her previous psychiatric history. But I don`t believe there was any -- any motive was brought up in the bail determination hearing.
HOSTIN: Well, let me ask you because, you know, I`m a former prosecutor, and unfortunately, I`ve had to deal with domestic violence cases. And typically, those are folks that you at the police department are familiar with because you get call after call after call of disturbance at the home.
Any history of that with this couple?
BERNSTEIN: I don`t have any history of domestic violence between this husband and wife. I can tell you that there was a call that was placed the night before. On Thursday night at around 9:15, we received a 911 call from a third party calling on behalf of Ms. Aiken, saying that they believed there was some sort of physical altercation -- or they believed there was some sort of dispute going on in the home, possible physical altercation.
Officers immediately responded to the scene. Once they got there, the husband was not there. He had already left for work. The children were asleep. The wife met the officers at the door, and she indicated that absolutely nothing had happened, there was nothing to investigate, and she wasn`t sure why police were called.
So they did not take a report or anything. There was nothing that they discovered in their investigation, and they went ahead and cleared until we were called again when the husband returned home from work shortly before 5:00 AM.
HOSTIN: So when the officers arrived pursuant to this call at 9:00 PM the previous evening, was the husband there?
BERNSTEIN: No, the husband had already left for work. It was just the -- the wife was home, and the two children were asleep. And there were no signs of any kind of disturbance inside the home.
HOSTIN: Asleep or drugged. Was there any indication? Did the officers see any prescription drugs laying around at that point? Because they could have been drugged then.
BERNSTEIN: No, at that point, there was no indication that anything had happened to the children.
HOSTIN: Well, let me ask you this. I mean, who is this third party that called? Are we talking about a neighbor or are we talking about one of the children, a family member? Who called?
BERNSTEIN: I do not have the information who the third-party caller is. It`s just the fact that we received a 911 call that we needed to respond to the residence to investigate, which we did. And subsequently, we were informed that nothing happened, and there was no physical evidence at the scene to indicate that anything had happened.
HOSTIN: Well, have police determined, Sergeant, what type of medications were crushed up and sprinkled on the children`s treats?
BERNSTEIN: The detective probably has that information. I do not have that information. I just know that it was prescription drug medication that was ground up into powder form and then sprinkled on food and beverage for the children.
HOSTIN: But we know that they include benzoid (ph), alcohol, amphetamine, perhaps even an Ambien, correct?
BERNSTEIN: Like I say, I don`t have that information in front of me. I just was told that it was prescription drug medications.
HOSTIN: OK. And let me ask you, Sergeant, what at this point -- we know that she`s been charged with I think attempted first degree murder, as well as this altercation (sic) of food charges. What kind of exposure? What type of time is she looking at?
BERNSTEIN: These are extremely serious cases. The adulteration of food and drink is actually a class three felony, so it`s pretty -- carries substantial jail time. And of course, attempted murder (INAUDIBLE) a more serious felony, as well. She got charged with one count of each for each of the two children.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The kids` father called police, and when authorities arrived, Aiken and the children were responsive, and all are expected to be OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So the children seem to be doing much better now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police tell us there is more to investigate, including looking back at previous calls to the house. And Bernstein says, they`re main concern, though, is the children.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Obviously, we want to make sure the children are OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Charged with two counts of attempted murder and two counts of alteration of food, drink or drugs. Police haven`t been able to tell us if the kids are now with family members or Child Protective Services.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOSTIN: I`m Sunny Hostin, in for Nancy Grace tonight. And we`re talking about this mother accused of poisoning her two children by putting prescription drug medication on their treats, treats including cereal, fruit, honey, even candy.
I want to bring in Patricia Saunders. She`s clinical psychologist. I also have with me Dr. Joye M. Carter. She`s the chief forensic pathologist at Marian (ph) County, Indiana.
Ladies, Doctors, thank you so much for joining me tonight. And I want to go to you first, Patricia Saunders. We`re hearing this woman had two years of depression, suffering from depression. We`re hearing that she also was seeing a psychiatrist for about two months -- 26-year-old with two small children, 4 years old and 5 years old, but 24 bottles of prescription drugs, just a hodgepodge of medication, Ativan, Celexa, Wellbutrin, Ambien.
How does a mother clearly in crisis get this kind of medication? It is just unbelievable to me.
PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, it is unbelievable to most of the public. But this is a standard set of medications used for people who have mild to moderate depression with anxiety. They`re not that powerful medications.
And it`s important to note that there are no antipsychotics in there because that will go to the issue of whether or not she can qualify as insane legally.
Now, the 24 bottles is suspicious to me. If she had five medications, was she stashing medication? Was she buying on the streets? Because 24 bottles is a lot of medications. Was she saving it for her suicide and murder of her children? That`s something that we really need to look into.
You know, remember, that there is a spectrum of depression from mild dysphoria that half of the country is walking around with...
HOSTIN: Right.
SAUNDERS: ... to the worst of major depression with psychotic features. And those are the moms that hear the voice of God or the devil telling them the only way they can save their children is to kill them. There`s no indication of psychosis by history and certainly not by the medications that she`s been prescribed.
HOSTIN: Well, you know, I want to explore that with you because you mentioned, I think, the distinction that a lot of us think about. You have sort of the really, truly sick mom. I think Andrea Yates probably falls into that category. And then you have sort of the crazy like a fox mom, like the Susan Smith, to drive their cars into the lake with their two children inside because she wants to have another life with her lover.
You`re saying that you see no indication of psychosis here, given the medication. But would there he been red flags for a mom like this? What should have been noticed?
SAUNDERS: That`s a real good question, Sunny. Usually, the psychotic features show up in people stop taking good care of themselves. They stop taking good care of the children. They may start responding to hallucinations -- that is, you know, unreal voices. You can see the deterioration.
There`s no particular red flag, but you watch -- the husband can see his wife starting to fall apart.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People living in the area are wondering what could have possibly led up to the mother`s alleged actions.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Out of the hospital and recovering after what police are calling an attempted murder.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There had to be some kind of signs, like that someone could have known that she`s either depressed or -- I don`t know. That`s -- I could never imagine (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ms. Aiken is currently being held at the Virginia Beach correctional facility without bond.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOSTIN: We`re talking about a mom who is accused of trying to poison her own two children and kill herself.
I want to bring in Dr. Joye Carter. And I want to ask you this question, Dr. Carter. According to police, this mom had alcohol and amphetamines in her system. What kind of effect would that have had on her?
DR. JOYE M. CARTER, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST (via telephone): Well, that`s going to affect her central nervous system, her (INAUDIBLE) and it`s important to find out what other medications she has in her system and what medications were ground up and given to the children.
I, too, am concerned about 24 bottles of medication and what could have been in them (ph), when that was prescribed and how much was left to even have around. Who`s watching this woman and who`s making sure she`s taking her medication is a very important question (INAUDIBLE) have answered.
HOSTIN: And that`s the thing. I mean, we hear about doctor shopping, people suffering from mental illness. But the checks and balances, it just appears, Doctor, that they`re just not there and that`s why these things can happen, isn`t that right?
CARTER: That`s right. I think they`re going to want to try to figure out who her therapist was, whether or not she was doctor shopping, by checking local pharmacies. If there`s more than one bottle prescribed, when it was prescribed and by who, and what direction (ph). And it looks like (INAUDIBLE) care was taken to grind this medication up and then to give to a child and putting on their food -- I -- I mean, I`m sure they want to figure out...
HOSTIN: Yes.
CARTER: (INAUDIBLE) been attempted before.
HOSTIN: It sounds like crazy like a fox.
Let me bring in the lawyers real quick here. We have Peter Odom. He`s a defense attorney. Eleanor Odom, another -- she`s actually a death penalty-qualified a sex crimes prosecutor, which is what I did, sex crimes.
Let me ask you, Peter, how do you defend something like this? I mean, we`re talking about someone truly sick, truly insane, or crazy like a fox?
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I mean, let`s get it straight. Under Virginia law, there are three different forms of insanity. One of them is, as the doctor suggested, psychotic break, a break with reality, where one simply can`t appreciate the difference between right and wrong.
But there are two other tests under Virginia law for insanity that don`t require that kind of a psychotic break. One of the tests is if a person is suffering from an irresistible impulse. This is still open to this woman. If she was suffering from depression and she had an irresistible impulse to kill herself and her children, that could fly under Virginia law.
Another test under Virginia law is if a person lacks substantial capacity to conform her conduct to the law. Now, this is a woman with a well-documented psychiatric history. I will tell you that the insanity defense, as you know, as a former prosecutor, it`s often raised. It rarely works. But in those instances where it`s -- where there`s a well- documented history of severe depression, that`s is the kind of a case where you have to take it seriously, and I think you have to take it seriously here.
HOSTIN: Well, Eleanor, let me ask you, as the prosecutor here, you know, what do you do with a case like this? Is this a case -- the judge wants Aiken to undergo a psych evaluation. You know, is this a case that a prosecutor takes and tries, or is this someone that really should be in a psych ward?
ELEANOR ODOM, PROSECUTOR: Well, first of all, you`re going to have a mental health evaluation to see whether or not if she was competent or whether or not she was insane at the time of the crime.
Now, I love how the defense likes to give you all these different scenarios under which she could have a break or be considered not guilty by reason of insanity. But Sunny, let`s look at a couple things. Look at the planning that went into this, all right? She`s depressed, yes, I`ll give her that. But depression does not equal insanity.
She clearly planned. She took the time to crush medication. She took time to sprinkle it on food that she knew her children liked, you know, kids -- foods that kids like. And she didn`t put it on the spinach and the other things that the kids wouldn`t eat. That shows planning and intent.
HOSTIN: That`s what gets me, she tries to poison the treats. What else could possibly show intent better than that?
Well, when we come back, a country star is gunned down at a popular Nashville bar. Was he really shot to death over a cigarette?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOSTIN: Outrage tonight as we go to the country music capital. A country star known for his outlaw southern rock is gunned down at a popular Nashville bar. We learn Wayne Mills takes a bullet to the head as the bar`s owner somehow claims self defense. Was the country singer really shot to death over a cigarette?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Nashville police are still investigating Mills` death. It happened at pit and barrel bar in Nashville. Mills was shot to death by the owner. The man identified as the shooter Chris Ferrell is claiming self-defense.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: I never, ever, ever seen him be violence or aggressive to another person or be aggressive to another person or give anybody a reason to pull a gun on him and shoot him in the back of the head.
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: With no arrests or charges have been filed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOSTIN: We have with us tonight my good friend Michael Christian, he`s an investigative reporter. And Michael, I`ve got to ask you. Tell us what happened here. Did he really get shot over a cigarette? That just doesn`t make sense to me.
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: That is a possible motive police are talking about here Sunny. This was in a bar, she said this was very early Saturday morning. And the victim here, the dead man named Wayne Mills, the country singer, was shot once in the head by the bar`s owner, a man named Chris Ferrell. Now, one of the possible motives here is that they were having an argument over smoking, that Mr. Mills was trying to smoke in a nonsmoking section of this particular bar. Chris Ferrell, the shooter admits that he shot Mr. Mills. He says it was in self-defense. So, at this point it is an ongoing investigation and no charges have been filed.
HOSTIN: Now, I`ve got to tell you Michael, we have covered many cases together both on court TV and in session. And you and I both know that most of the time when two guys that know each other, these were friends, get into an altercation it is either money, drugs and alcohol or sex. What can you tell us about the relationship between these two guys? Fighting over a cigarette just doesn`t quite cut it.
CHRISTIAN: Well, as you say, they were friends. They were the same age. They`re both 44 reportedly. And I can tell you, whatever happened here must have happened pretty quickly. This bar was closed. Mr. Mills and Mr. Ferrell were both in there with a few other people. Somehow an argument started. The other people decided to leave and literally as the other people are going out the door or are just outside one shot rings out. So, whatever brought this to a head and perhaps Mr. Mills did attack Mr. Ferrell, we don`t know at this point. But whatever happened it happened quickly.
HOSTIN: Well, let me bring in Brett Larson, he`s also an investigative reporter. Brett, can you tell me a little bit about Wayne Mills? I mean, we are hearing all of this about how he is this, you know, outlaw country singer but pretty beloved. Right? I believe when his murder occurred even Blake Shelton from "The Voice" huge country singer tweeted out his dismay and condolences about this. There it goes, "Extremely sad to hear about the death of my old friend Wayne Mills. Rest in peace, brother. Love you Carol." I mean, this is a beloved well-known musician. Tell us a bit about it.
BRETT LARSON, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Absolutely. I mean, here is a guy who played with as you said, Blake Shelton, he played with Taylor Hicks who won on "American Idol." Described by this friend big lovable gentle giant and self-described as this stiff necked, you know, he plays his type of country music. And it`s very interesting. He has an interesting career. He never goes after the money. He goes after, you know, he has got this very dedicated fan base. He`s in it because he likes this very specific type of this outlaw type of music that he plays. Never really got into the mainstream country thing but was a very happy person. So, it is just an unusual thing to happen that, you know, an argument over a cigarette escalates so quickly into a self-defense shot to the head.
HOSTIN: Yes, you know, I got to tell you this just doesn`t make sense to me. I prosecuted too many cases, covered too many cases. Again, usually when there`s an altercation between friends, it is drugs, alcohol, money or women.
So, let me go to Gary Sargeant, he`s a close friend of Wayne Mills, he`s the founder of Outlaw Music Hall of Fame. You know, Gary, my condolences to the death of your friend. Tell us a bit about him because people are saying he was this gentle giant, you know, 6`5", very beloved and well known. We also know that he did have an aggravated assault charge in his past. I mean, was he a violent person?
GARY SARGEANT, FOUNDER, OUTLAW MUSIC HALL OF FAME: Well, I`m going to tell you the same thing that I told anybody that has ever asked me the same question about Wayne Mills. Wayne Mills was by far the greatest most gentlest, loving human being that I ever in my 55 years on this planet had the honor of knowing, period. He would do things that you would go in explaining what he has done you would go who does that, and the answer was always Wayne. Wayne did things out of the kindness of his heart out of habit. He wouldn`t even think about it.
He was by far the gentlest person that you would ever know. I want to clarify the Outlaw Music stuff that I have heard. Outlaw Music is not a genre. Outlaw Music, outlaw is an attitude. And this means that, he refused throughout his entire career to compromise his music or his believes in order to be commercially successfully. That is what Outlaw Music is. That is all that is. It is not a genre of music. It is an attitude. It is people who refused to and he refused. And he loved all independent musicians like nobody`s business.
HOSTIN: And Gary, you can`t see this but we have been watching Wayne Mills` music video "Redneck Hippie" from YouTube. And I want to ask you, I mean, you are his friend. You`ve described him as the most gentle and loving person you have ever met in your life. Does this make sense to you? Smoking being called the reason for the shooting. The shooter is saying that he had to shoot your friend in self-defense? Does that make sense to you?
SARGEANT: Number one, I can promise you it was not about smoking. Number two, it was not self-defense. A man does not get shot in the back of his head in self-defense, period. We do not know what happened.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOSTIN: I`m Sunny Hostin in for Nancy Grace tonight. Thank you so much for staying with me. Let me bring back Gary Sargeant who is a very good friend of country singer Wayne Mills. And I`ve got to ask you, did you know the bar owner here? I believe his name is Christopher Ferrell also 44-years-old. Do you know him?
SARGEANT: No. I do not know him. But I knew they were friends. This was not, again, about smoking. There was smoking -- it was after hours, number one. There was smoking going on in the bar all night. This is not about smoking. Again, this is something that needs to be -- an investigation needs to be widened. The Tennessee attorney general`s office needs to demand a wider investigation and let`s find the truth. That`s all any of us want. We can handle the truth. We are grownups. We understand and we don`t care where it comes down but we need the truth. The thing that makes this so tragic is here it is Wednesday and there has been no arrests. There have been no answers, there`s been no -- nothing. And that makes it so much harder to deal with.
HOSTIN: Do you know how long they were friends, Gary? How long were they friends?
SARGEANT: I`m not sure. I know that he played there when it was called boondocks before the bar rescue renovation and renaming of the place. And they were just friends. And I don`t know what happened. And we need the truth. Wayne was -- the only thing bigger than Wayne`s talent was his heart. Wayne was a founder with Jamie Johnson of the Alabama Music Showcase that showcased Alabama-based artists back in the early 2000s and was part of the reason Jamie Johnson became so successful.
Jamie Johnson and as Larson said, Taylor Hicks and Blake Shelton, not only were friends, they used to open for Wayne back in the day. Wayne has been doing this for a long time. And he remained true to his music. And he remained true to his friends. And independent artists, he would go out of his way to his own detriment to help another artist.
HOSTIN: Now, Gary, you know, you mentioned that no arrest has been made here. No arrest whatsoever which is shocking to me.
I want to bring in my lawyers to talk about this because, you know, let`s talk about the fact that, you know, this bar owner is saying I did it in self defense. We know this town has a stand your ground law that we`ve talked about over and over and over again. Let me ask you, Peter. You know, what do you do in a case like this? His friends are talking, Wayne Mills and his friends are saying, you know, we need to investigate this. Something else needs to happen. Where do you go from here?
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, the police are being very close mouthed about what they have found at the scene and bout what witnesses have told them. I will tell you that in Tennessee, it is affirmative defense, you have to raise and prove self-defense in that state. And so the police must have some reason to believe that there actually was self defense or else they would just be investigating a killing and would have made an arrest. So, something about the investigation that we don`t know says self-defense.
HOSTIN: Well, Eleanor, let me go to you on this. Because I find it striking that someone gets shot allegedly -- we`re not sure, but allegedly in the back of the head and, you know, the shooter claims self defense. I mean, in my lifetime when I prosecuted cases, somebody gets shot in the back that really cuts against a self-defense claim.
ELEANOR ODOM, PROSECUTOR: That is not self defense. And for the defense attorney to say this is why they are taking their time because it`s self-defense, that is just hogwash. What is going on here is that the police are taking their time to do a thorough investigation. If they had immediately arrested this bar owner, don`t you think everybody, all the defense attorneys would be up in arms saying, oh, it is a rush to judgment. No, they are not doing it. They`re taking their time, they`re looking at everything. And I think that is how you build a successful case.
HOSTIN: Now, I should mention that Ferrell does have a valid handgun permit. How does that play in? How will that affect the charges if at all?
ELEANOR ODOM: Well, I mean, so what he has a valid gun permit. You can`t just shoot somebody in the back and say opps, it does count or I`m not guilty because I have a valid gun permit. OK. Great. So, we don`t charge him with having gun illegally, but he could be charged with murder.
HOSTIN: Well, let me ask you this. Because we are talking about an altercation in a bar late at night. And as I said earlier, usually when you have this kind of thing with two men at a bar it`s either money, drugs or alcohol or women at the root of it. That is just the basics. You know, what if it is determined that both of these guys were intoxicated? How could that possibly affect the self defense claim? Stand your ground claim really?
ELEANOR ODOM: Well, again, I mean, you can`t just say, well, I had too much to drink. I was drunk and therefore, it doesn`t count. You know, we`re going to do a do over. Remember this, who had the gun? The bar owner. Who didn`t have the gun? And that was Wayne Mills. That is it in a nut shell. He had nothing. And I don`t see the self defense claim in this. It is just ridiculous.
HOSTIN: Well, he was a big guy though, we`re talking about 6`5" and did have an ag-assault prior not conviction I believe an arrest. You know, do you think that`s going to be considered as well?
ELEANOR ODOM: Well, it could. But Sunny, you know, you pointed out yourself he was shot in the back. That doesn`t say self-defense to me. That sounds like you hunted him down like prey and shot him when he was defenseless.
HOSTIN: Well, coming up next, we investigate the disappearance of a 27-year-old beautiful Milwaukee woman who seems to vanish into thin air after she is last seen on surveillance video. The search for Kelly Dwyer.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOSTIN: And now to tonight`s Missing in America, we go to Milwaukee and the mystery surrounding the disappearance of 27-year-old Kelly Dwyer. She was reported missing when she just didn`t make it to work at a nearby Lulu Lemon. Now, surveillance video shows her entering an apartment building and then she`s never seen again. It`s almost as if she just vanishes into thin air.
I want to bring in Dan O`Donnell, he`s a news anchor with WISN Radio to help flesh this out. Dan, let me ask you this. We have her on surveillance video entering into a place, where was she going?
DAN O`DONNELL, WISN RADIO: She was going to her boyfriend`s apartment on Milwaukee`s east side, a 38-year-old man by the name of Kris Zocco, who she has been dating for about a year.
HOSTIN: Well, let me ask you, we have surveillance video of her then going in, but is there surveillance video of her leaving the apartment?
O`DONNELL: No, there is not. And there are over 20 surveillance cameras nearby that might have picked her up, none of them did, ever leaving the apartment.
HOSTIN: Now, what does he claim he last saw Kelly?
O`DONNELL: Well, he claims he last saw Kelly leaving his apartment the morning of October 11th which was the day before she was reported missing. That she had spent the night of the 10th over at his place. According to court documents, he admitted to investigators that they had spent the night using cocaine.
HOSTIN: Well, I want to bring in Tony Dwyer. He`s the father of missing woman Kelly Dwyer. Just a beautiful girl. Mr. Dwyer, thank you so much for joining me tonight. And I`m so sorry that you are going through this and that your daughter is missing.
TONY DWYER, FATHER OF KELLY DWYER: Thank you.
HOSTIN: What do you think happened to your daughter?
DWYER: It`s very difficult to say at this point. It appears that she has in fact vanished. The lack of evidence on the videotape leaving the apartment is baffling. Baffling to the police, baffling to the family, and certainly has something to do with this case.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOSTIN: I`m Sunny Hostin in tonight for Nancy Grace. Thank you so much for joining me. I have with me Tony Dwyer. He is the father of missing woman Kelly Dwyer. Tony, let me ask you this, we understand that she was last seen allegedly by her boyfriend. Did you know her boyfriend?
DWYER: No, and I think the word boyfriend is used a little bit loosely. Although based on some of the things that the police have found in his apartment. No father would want his daughter to date anyone like this. He`s not a good guy.
HOSTIN: Yes. I think you`re referring to the fact that drugs and child porn were found in his home. But I need to mention for our viewers that he has not been charged, you know, in her disappearance. But and you know, we know that he was working, he as chief information officer. He graduated from Boston University. He was a director of IT actually for the New York Yankees for some time. But he is the person who last was with your daughter, he was the last person to have seen her. Is there any possibility Mr. Dwyer that your daughter may have just decided to run off and leave the country?
DWYER: Absolutely no possibility at all.
HOSTIN: And why do you say that?
DWYER: She was working three jobs. She loves her family. She`s not the kind of kid that`s going to go off outside of a 10 or 15 block radius in which she leaves and work. So, that to us is not possibility.
HOSTIN: Do you know Mr. Dwyer where she met this Kris Zocco? Where did they meet?
DWYER: I don`t know where they met. And although she spoke of him from time to time, you know, I can only tell you, what we`ve been told is on that tape. And some of the child pornography events on that tape are just despicable, and not even fit for human consumption. It`s just horrible.
HOSTIN: I hope everyone -- again I am so sorry that this is happening to you and your family. Let`s hope that Kelly is found and returned to you safe and sound. I hope everyone that is viewing this is looking at this picture, she lived about a mile away from Kris Zocco`s home. She didn`t have a car. So, she wouldn`t have taken a cab or she would have walked. Someone must have seen her. People don`t vanish into thin air. So, please, if you have seen Kelly Dwyer, please, please, help authorities.
Now, we remember tonight, American hero Marine Lance Corporal Daniel Gabe Raney, 21-years-old from Pleasant View, Tennessee. He was awarded the National Defense Service medal and Global War on Terrorism Service medal. He leaves behind his mother Penny, three brothers and one sister. Daniel Gabe Raney, a true American hero.
"SHOWBIZ TONIGHT" is coming up next.
END
