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Nancy Grace
Mom, Ex-Boyfriend Charged With Baby Elaina`s Murder
Aired December 02, 2013 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. We go off the top, live to Toledo. A parent`s worst nightmare, 18-month-old baby girl Elaina last seen taking a nap. Well, minutes later, she`s gone. How does an 18-month- old baby girl disappear from the family`s own bedroom in the middle of the day, and nobody sees a thing?
After we obtain secret video of Mommy with baby Elaina just before she vanishes, the search for baby Elaina ends, baby Elaina`s tiny body discovered in a cardboard box hidden in a residential two-car garage along with all the other trash.
Bombshell tonight. As we go to air, a secret grand jury hands down aggravated murder charges. Did 18-month-old baby Elaina die at the hands of her own mother and Mommy`s live-in?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The body of a baby found in a garage in the baby Elaina case...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ve recovered immature human skeletal remains.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) it`s not fair for this to happen to her, and nothing to be done. I`m going to make sure of it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A pivotal development in the Elaina case.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Angela Steinfurth, Elaina`s mom, and her ex- boyfriend, Steven King...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That little girl`s body was found in the garage of her mom`s ex-boyfriend.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Elaina and her mom are seen on surveillance videotape.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Later that night, Angela would call her ex- boyfriend`s mother, asking if she and her children could stay at this home for the night.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They were cold and wet, wanted to know if she could come over and stay.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Baby Elaina`s little body was found in that very garage.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Justice for baby Elaina, making sure that those people that are responsible pay the full price.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, live, Mesa, Arizona. They meet on a work trip, they fall hard, but the flame burns out and they break up. But only then she moves 300 miles to chase him, even converting to Mormonism to get her man back. Her lover, 30-year-old Travis Alexander, found slumped over dead in the shower of his own home, shot, stabbed 29 times. Of course, I`m talking about Jodi Arias! Arias convicted, but the jury deadlocks on the death penalty.
Outrage tonight! In the last hours, bombshell from the Estrella jailhouse. Jodi Arias vows to slit the throat of her prosecutor, quote, "just like Travis."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cassandra Collins (ph) has a perspective on Jodi Arias.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think she`s very dangerous, very dangerous.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: State of Arizona versus Jodi Ann Arias.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was Jodi`s cellmate in a small two-bunk cell in the Estrella jail.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She said that if she`s given the death sentence, she want to get her revenge.
JODI ARIAS, CONVICTED OF MURDER: No jury is going to convince me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do a Mafia bowtie, yes, cut his throat.
ARIAS: I didn`t mean to shoot him or anything.
He said, I`m going to (EXPLETIVE DELETED) kill you, bitch.
I just couldn`t believe what had happened!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ma`am, were you crying when you were shooting him?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) want to know why Juan Martinez didn`t love her. (INAUDIBLE) out of her -- she`s out of her freakin` mind.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you crying when you were stabbing him?
ARIAS: I don`t remember!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How about when you cut his throat?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You are just seeing video of Jodi Arias`s cellmate, Cassandra Collins. That was from KSAZ (ph).
Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. Off the top, we go live to Toledo. As we go to air, a secret grand jury hands down aggravated murder charges. Did 18- month-old baby girl Elaina die at the hands of her own mother and Mommy`s live-in boyfriend?
Well, with me is Mommy`s father, Richard Schiewe. He says, No, it`s impossible.
Mr. Schiewe, thank you for being with us.
RICHARD SCHIEWE, ELAINA`S GRANDFATHER (via telephone): Yes.
GRACE: Mr. Schiewe, what do you make of the fact that a grand jury has handed down murder charges against your daughter, Angela Steinfurth, and her live-in boyfriend, Steven King?
SCHIEWE: First of all, they did not hand down murder charges on my daughter. They handed down aggravated murder charges on Steven King. They did not hand down murder charges on my daughter.
Everybody has got that all mixed up. They`re reading in things that shouldn`t be read into it. They don`t know the truth. They shouldn`t be talking about it, and...
GRACE: Richard...
SCHIEWE: ... (INAUDIBLE) until they hear the truth.
GRACE: Richard, you and I have been trying to find the truth in this case for a long time. Everybody, with me is baby Elaina`s grandfather. This is her mom`s father, Richard Schiewe. He raised her. He raised the daughter, Angela Steinfurth, age just 25.
Richard, I don`t know how to exactly break this to you, but I`m just going to tell you I`ve got in my hand the indictment number, CR-33083. It`s right after the indictment of Steven King, charged with aggravated murder, tampering with evidence and abuse of a corpse. That would be baby Elaina`s dead body.
And right below it, is state of Ohio versus Angela Steinfurth. That`s your daughter. That`s baby Elaina`s mother, 25-year-old Angela Steinfurth. She is charged with murder, code section 2903.02B as in Brother and D as in dog. I`m looking right at it. I`ve got it right here.
SCHIEWE: I don`t care what you`re looking at! I`m telling you, I was in the courtroom with the lawyer, with the bailiffs, with everybody. They charged her with a B (ph) (INAUDIBLE) this is not murder. It`s the same thing as child endangerment. That`s what I`m saying, is nobody knows what they`re talking about. Look it up in the book before they start talking.
GRACE: OK. You know what? Mr. Schiewe, stranger things have happened. Stranger things have happened. An indictment could come out and she could take a cheap (ph) plea in exchange for testimony against Steven King.
Let`s get to the bottom of it. Joining me right now is Sarah Ottney, managing editor of "The Toledo Free Press." Sarah, thank you for being with us. Can you make sense -- you know, I once had a judge that would tell every jury, It is your duty to make (ph) all witnesses speak the truth, impugn perjury to no one.
Can it be true that the documents I`ve got in my hand are speaking the truth, that there is or was an indictment handed down by a secret grand jury in the death of baby Elaina against her mother, Angela Steinfurth, and Richard Schiewe, (sic) Steinfurth`s father? Can it all be true? Has there been a plea deal? Clear it up for me, Sarah.
SARAH OTTNEY, "TOLEDO FREE PRESS" (via telephone): Well, all that we know so far is that Angela Steinfurth, the mother of baby Elaina, was charged with murder today. Steven King, her ex-boyfriend, was charged with aggravated murder, tampering with evidence and abuse of a corpse, as you mentioned. Both are also charged with obstruction of justice. That`s already been going on for a few months. And they both have arraignments tomorrow on the new charges.
GRACE: Back to Angela Steinfurth. That is the mother in this case. Angela Steinfurth`s father is with me, Richard Schiewe. He doesn`t believe it. He says it`s not true.
Why are you so convinced your daughter had nothing to do with baby Elaina`s death?
SCHIEWE: It`s not true! (INAUDIBLE) you`re talking to somebody from "The Blade." "The Blade" don`t know what the hell they`re talking about. (INAUDIBLE
Why don`t you wait. I`m going to tell you what you do. You wait until tomorrow. You have that "Blade" lady in the courtroom and let her hear what the judge and the prosecutor got to say. That lady don`t know what the hell she`s talking about.
And I am sick and tired of people putting words in people`s mouth. I get sick of it. That`s why I don`t like talking to people. If you can`t tell the truth, shut the hell up! That`s what I`m saying.
I was there with my daughter`s lawyer. I was there with my daughter in the judge`s chambers today. (INAUDIBLE) Don`t tell me I don`t know what...
GRACE: OK, hold on, Richard. Everybody, with me is Angela Steinfurth`s father. He says this is absolutely not true.
Richard Schiewe, believe me, after prosecuting for over 10 years in a felony courtroom in inner-city Atlanta, in my opinion, everybody`s lying! So I`m with you on that, Richard.
Let me clarify in my own mind -- you`re saying that Angela has already pled guilty to, basically, felony neglect to the child. When was that?
SCHIEWE: (INAUDIBLE) she ain`t pleaded guilty to that (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: I couldn`t understand you.
SCHIEWE: (INAUDIBLE) murder. They did not charge her with murder, aggravated murder or anything.
GRACE: OK. OK, everybody, with me is the father of the mother, Richard Schiewe. He`s speaking through a trach. That`s why it`s a little difficult to understand him.
Let me go out to Jeremy Baumhower, columnist with "The Toledo Free Press." Jeremy, thank you for being with us. Can you clarify, can you clear any of this up?
JEREMY BAUMHOWER, "TOLEDO FREE PRESS" COLUMNIST (via telephone): Well, you both may be right. You know, I -- they indicted -- they held a secret grand jury today, and I think the indictments that were handed down were to make sure of the parts (ph) that nobody knows yet.
The shocker of this all, Nancy, is tomorrow at 11:30, and then later at 1:00, both Angela and Steven will not only make an appearance in court, but they will be sentenced tomorrow with correlation, with connection with Elaina Steinfurth`s death. So I...
GRACE: Now, hold on. Are you telling me they`re taking a plea deal tomorrow?
BAUMHOWER: Tomorrow in court, you will see that both will be sentenced. They will both -- they have both accepted a plea deal. So (INAUDIBLE) Richard, what you`re talking to, is correct. She was...
GRACE: Hold on. That indictment just happened. The indictment has just happened in the last hours. If they were working a deal, it must have been on some other charge.
Out to Justin Freiman, on the story. Justin, what do you know?
JUSTIN FREIMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): ... I know is it is correct. These charges came down within the last few hours. There is no official word of a plea deal here. So these charges stand.
GRACE: It`s my understanding they`ll be in court tomorrow for an arraignment.
Unleash the lawyers. Joining me, the former lawyer for Orenthal James Simpson -- O.J. Simpson -- Yale Galanter out of Miami. Also with me, veteran trial lawyer Renee Rockwell in the Atlanta jurisdiction.
All right, Galanter, no way they got a deal already. The indictment was just handed down a couple of hours ago. This -- and look, the boyfriend, Steven King, is charged with aggravated murder. You know what that means. That means they could seek the death penalty on him, Yale.
YALE GALANTER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, I mean, it would be inconceivable to me that lawyers would negotiate a deal for both of them without doing any discovery, filing motions, and protecting whatever constitutional rights they have. So I agree with you, Nancy. The shot (ph) of lawyers going into court doing a plea this early, you know, literally a day after an indictment, is slim to none.
GRACE: Not happening. With me also, in addition to Yale Galanter, Renee Rockwell. We`re talking your calls.
And of course, sadly, let me report, Renee, that in this jurisdiction, there is a death penalty, but it`s the needle. If Steven King gets the death penalty for the death of baby Elaina, he`ll just go to sleep. He`ll just lay down on cot with a feather pillow and just drift off to sleep. It`ll all be over with.
Do you know what happened to the baby, Renee? Multiple fractures all over her body, bones broken on an 18-month-old baby girl. Thoughts, Renee?
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Thoughts, Nancy. Well, first of all, we don`t have an executioner signed up for this yet. This is very early in the game. We don`t know who the bad guy is. We don`t know who`s going to race to the courthouse to make a deal.
I would venture to say that we`re going to see one person trying to get there, get into -- like you said -- the judge`s chambers and work some kind of deal out...
GRACE: On the other one.
ROCKWELL: ... to testify against the other party.
GRACE: Let`s go to the lines. Mary, Virginia. Hi, Mary. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, hi, Nancy. I`m as confused as anybody else trying to figure out, just listening to your show just now, about what are the actual charges. I`m very -- you know, all due respect to Angela`s father, I`m very happy to see that something is definitely going to be done for justice for this little baby because let`s not forget, it`s a little baby that`s dead. And -- and...
GRACE: You know what, Mary? Liz, hold Mary in Virginia for a moment because I want to remind everybody what this case is all about.
Mary, I`m not confused, OK, because I`ve got in my hands right here all the criminal charges that were handed down by a grand jury, a secret grand jury. This just happened in the last couple of hours, as we go to air.
I know that they`ve handed down an aggravated murder charge on the live-in boyfriend, Steven King. That`s death penalty. That`s what that means, OK? The other one, on the mom, Angela Steinfurth, is a simple murder, if there is such a thing. That`s punishable by life behind bars. That`s what I know because I`ve got the hard evidence right in front of me.
Let`s go through the facts. With me, managing editor of "The Toledo Free Press," Sarah Ottney. Sarah, if you could, for the viewers just joining us, if you could take me through what happened the day baby Elaina goes missing. I`ve never heard anything like it.
OTTNEY: Well, first of all, I want to -- it`s my understanding that there is not a death penalty possibility for this case. It`s 15 years to life for murder or 20 years to life for aggravated murder. I guess more will...
GRACE: OK, I`m looking at the criminal code right now, and with aggravated murder, it does say it`s death penalty-qualified.
But I want to go back to the facts of this case. Let me go to you, Justin Freiman. I recall the day that baby Elaina goes missing, the mom and baby were over at her ex-boyfriend`s home. They were obviously back together.
This is video that we obtained. This is just about an hour or two before baby Elaina, quote, "goes missing," all right? That`s the mom, Angela Steinfurth.
A couple of hours later, they`re all back over at Steven King`s house he shares with his mother. There was about seven or eight people there in the home that day. The father comes over, Steinfurth, Jr., comes over, still married to Elaina (sic) Steinfurth, to get the baby for visitation.
She won`t hand over the baby. They get into a big old brawl, big fight out on the front porch, all right? They (INAUDIBLE) give the baby. Finally, the mom goes in to get the baby. She comes out and says, Oh, dear lord in heaven, the baby`s gone.
OK, Justin Freiman. Three months pass. They find the baby. Where do they find the baby?
FREIMAN: They find the baby in a box in the garage at that exact house.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: For those of you just joining us, breaking news. In the last hours, as we go to air, we learn murder charges have been handed down in the case of missing baby Elaina.
As you will recall, the 18-month-old baby girl is taking a nap in the home. The whole family`s there. When the Daddy -- Mommy`s husband -- the bio dad, shows up for visitation, she won`t hand the baby over. After a big brawl on the front porch -- that`s classy -- they go in to get the baby, and suddenly, Mommy says the baby`s gone.
Back out to you, Justin Freiman. The baby is then found. They search high and low for the baby. But then three months later, during the summer months, this is extremely hot, the baby`s found stashed in a cardboard box in the two-car garage of that home with all the other trash.
FREIMAN: That`s right, Nancy. These bones were found, and they were immature human remains when found. They actually had to do DNA testing to identify these remains.
GRACE: I am sick! I am sick! This little girl was stashed away with all the trash. The garage was so filthy that the police could hardly even search it, so filthy. And they put this baby, all her little bones broken, in a cardboard box in that garage? That`s where her little body is found?
Let me just say, Steven King, if you`re guilty, Mommy, if you`re guilty, you`ve got a one-way ticket to hell! Hello, Satan!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s not right, what happened to baby Elaina. It`s not right at all.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Elaina`s mother, Angela, and her former boyfriend, Steven King, both are charged with obstruction of justice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We all wish baby Elaina was alive, but at least we know what happened to her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She won`t be forgot.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: All of us were crushed when the search for baby Elaina came to an end, her tiny body, an 18-month-old baby girl, found in a cardboard box stashed in somebody`s garage? In the last hours, murder charges handed down.
Unleash the lawyers. Yale Galanter, former lawyer for O.J. Simpson -- I don`t know that I`d brag about that, Galanter -- also with me, Renee Rockwell, veteran defense attorney in the Atlanta jurisdiction.
All right, Yale, we`ve also got -- not Angela Steinfurth, the mother, but the boyfriend, Steven King, charged with ag murder -- that`s if the prosecutor chooses to seek the death penalty, they`ve got it set up for that with the aggravated murder charge -- tampering with evidence and abuse of a corpse. It`s not every day, Galanter, that you see abuse of a corpse.
GALANTER: Oh, I agree. I mean, these charges are horrible. The facts are horrible. I think both of these defendants -- you know, you say they`re going to meet Satan, but you know, unless they cop a plea and the prosecutor thinks it`s in the best interests of anybody, everybody in the case, they`re definitely looking at the death penalty. The facts of this case are horrible, and what these people did was just absolutely the worst possible circumstances.
GRACE: Well, you know, you know the law, Galanter, Renee Rockwell. The law is circumstantial evidence is deemed as powerful as direct evidence, such as an eyewitness or DNA. So when you guys go on and on about it`s just circumstantial evidence, that`s just like, you know, water off a duck`s back. That means absolutely nothing, all right? So you`re not tricking me. You might be tricking somebody that`s listening tonight, but this is circumstantial evidence.
She was last with her mother and the live-in in their bedroom. Baby Elaina`s taking a nap. Everybody else is out in the den area, watching TV. They`re milling around. Nobody`s at work. I`ll just throw that in.
And the next thing you know, the baby`s dead? What, somebody snuck into the house, took the baby with all of them at home? That`s extremely powerful circumstantial evidence, Renee. I mean, you guys are -- are acting like you`re in a vacuum. That`s very powerful.
ROCKWELL: Is that to me, Nancy?
GRACE: Yes, that`s to you.
ROCKWELL: OK. So you have an indictment. What does the indictment scream to you? One is aggravated against the live-in, the ex.
GRACE: That means he did it and she knew about it. That`s what that means to me.
ROCKWELL: No, and she`s indicted, too. So they have pressure on both of them. And she comes in, takes a plea in exchange for her testimony.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s like, it`s just beginning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want to bring justice for Elaina.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: DNA samples taken from the remains confirmed the identity of Elaina Steinfurth.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After months of searching the river and everywhere in between, police found many themselves back here at the home of Steven King.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Both of us went running out the back door, and I was just afraid by some chance that maybe she had gotten out the back door.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We got to come together even stronger. So that we can put our baby to rest.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: That is the grandfather, Richard Schiewe, who is with us tonight, and vowing that there`s some mistake, that it absolutely cannot be true, his 25-year-old daughter, baby Elaina`s mother, Angela Steinfurth, is charged with murder, along with her boyfriend, Steven King, who is charged with aggravated murder, tampering with evidence and abuse of a corpse.
Let me jog your memory, for those of you just joining us. Baby Elaina taking a nap with mommy, they`re in the home of the boyfriend, Steven King. The whole family`s home. This is video we obtained of baby Elaina just before she quote, "goes missing." The bio dad comes over. He wants visitation with the baby, Gerry Steinfurth. Mom refuses to go and get the baby. A big argument ensues. Finally she goes in and comes out and announces to everyone, the baby is gone.
We are taking your calls. Mary in Virginia, I think we`ve cleared it up to this juncture what`s going on. Did that answer your question?
CALLER: Yes, thank you so much, Nancy. Thank you for everything you do, and justice for baby Elaina.
GRACE: Agreed. Out to Jason on the lines. Hi, Jason. What`s your question?
CALLER: Hi, Nancy, it`s great talking with you again tonight.
GRACE: Likewise.
CALLER: My question is, who discovered the remains?
GRACE: You know, Jason, I`m just seeing pictures of that tiny little white casket with that baby in it, and I know the autopsy results. To Dr. William Morrone, medical examiner, forensic pathologist and toxicologist joining me out of Madison Heights. Dr. Morrone, she had multiple bone fractures, Doctor. Multiple.
MORRONE: That means it was not accidental. Baby bones are very pliable. They bend. If you have one break, one break, that can be an accident, but if you have multiple breaks in the same bone, that`s homicide. That is not accidental, and that`s what they needed to come up with in the cause of death, and now they can have a manner of death.
GRACE: With me, Dr. William Morrone. Doctor, the body was put in a cardboard box and stuffed in a garage full of trash. That`s how it was found. It suffered through the summer months. Is that why we can`t get a soft tissue analysis?
MORRONE: There is a certain amount of mummification and dehydration, and the coroner for Lucas County called in an anthropologist. Anthropologists study dry remains and bones, similar to, maybe, pharaohs in the pyramids in Egypt or Indian mounds in North or South America. They needed an anthropologist. They had to go to a university. Police departments don`t have that expertise.
GRACE: Actually, Dr. William Morrone, no offense, but I wish I hadn`t even asked you that. I wish I didn`t know they had to bring in an anthropologist who studies dried Egyptian remains to look at this 18-month- old baby girl. Liz, I want to see baby Elaina in life.
To Dr. Ramani Durvasula, clinical psychologist and author joining me out of L.A. Dr. Ramani, how difficult is it for family members to accept their daughter or their son is charged with murder?
DURVASULA: I mean, as we can see by her father`s reaction, some families go into absolute denial. They do not think that they`re capable of doing this. We`re seeing it in this family. We see it all the time. And they`re mourning now multiple losses. Not just the loss perhaps of a family member who was killed, but now the potential loss of the family member that was accused of this crime. So, again, what we`re seeing here is not uncommon, and it takes a while for the family sometimes to come around.
GRACE: To Richard Schiewe, this is the grandfather. This is the mom`s father, Angela Steinfurth`s father.
Richard, who found the body? Who found baby Elaina`s body in that cardboard box?
SCHIEWE: The police did. Steven King told the cops where the body was at. The second day that Elaina come up missing, I was in that garage with the police. I helped break into the trunk of that car. That body was not in the car. I asked, well, I could search the garage. They said, well, we`re done. Go ahead. I was in the rafters. I was all up there. That body was not there.
Steven King admitted to putting the body back there. You`ve got all of these clowns on this show that don`t know what the hell they`re talking about. When they know what they`re talking about, and they got proof, tell the doctors and all of these people from Africa, or wherever they`re from, then they can --
GRACE: Hang on, Richard. I can`t make out what you`re saying, but from what I -- I`m understanding, is, you believe Steven King is responsible for this, the boyfriend, and that your daughter had nothing to do with it?
SCHIEWE: Yes. Steven King killed her, and admitted to killing my granddaughter. He said (inaudible), why?
GRACE: Why, why in your mind, Richard, did he do it?
SCHIEWE: You`ll hear tomorrow from court. After the court proceedings tomorrow. Then everybody will have an understanding. And you want to hear the truth, [inaudible] that guy will tell you the truth.
GRACE: Everyone, we will be there in that courtroom when Angela Steinfurth apparently will be arraigned for the murder of her 18-month-old baby girl. Baby Elaina. We all hoped and prayed baby Elaina would be found alive. That was not meant to be. In the last hours, indictments handed down by a secret grand jury against the mother, Angela Steinfurth, according to our information, an aggravated murder charges, tampering with evidence, and abuse of a corpse charges against her boyfriend, Steven King.
When we come back, bombshell from the Estrella jailhouse. Convicted killer Jodi Arias vows to slit the throat of her prosecutor, quote, just like she killed Travis.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cassandra Collins has a perspective on Jodi Arias.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think she`s very dangerous. Very dangerous.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The state of Arizona versus Jodi Ann Arias.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was Jodi`s cellmate in a small two-bunk cell in an Estrella jail.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She said that if she`s given a death sentence, she wanted to get her revenge.
JODI ARIAS: No jury is going to convict me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do a Mafia bow tie. Cut his throat.
ARIAS: I didn`t mean to shoot him or anything. He said I`ll [ EXPLETIVE DELETED] kill you, bitch. I just couldn`t believe what happened.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you crying when you were shooting him?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wanted to know why Juan Martinez didn`t love her. I`m like, she`s out of her freakin` mind.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you crying when you were stabbing him?
ARIAS: I don`t remember.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How about when you cut his throat? Were you crying then?
ARIAS: I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tried to manipulate every inmate.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nine days out of ten I don`t like Jodi Arias.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would believe she would really try to harm someone. I really do.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: You just saw video of Jodi Arias` cellmate Cassandra Collins from KSAZ. Now we learn, it ain`t over yet. Jodi Arias apparently vowing from behind bars, she wants to slit the throat of her prosecutor, Juan Martinez, the man that took her case to trial, secured a guilty verdict. The jury deadlocks on the death penalty, on sentencing, and she`s now facing a retrial with Martinez at the helm. Straight out to Alex Tereszcuk, senior reporter, RadarOnline.com. What happened, Alexis?
TERESCZUK: Well, before Jodi was put on trial, she shared a jail cell with this woman, Cassandra Collins, and Cassandra spoke out and she said that Jodi threatened the prosecutor. She was so angry at Juan Martinez, she said that if she gets the death penalty, she knew people on the outside that would perform what she called a Mafia bow tie on Juan Martinez. That means that she would have his throat cut, that she knew somebody on the outside that would be able to do that, if he convicted her. And he did convict her. So this cellmate was very concerned for Juan`s safety. That`s why she spoke out. She said she was afraid something would happen to him. This man needs security because Jodi is a threatening woman. She said she was dangerous and manipulative behind bars.
GRACE: Let`s go to Jodi Arias` behind bars cellmate. Her name is Cassandra Collins. Listen to what she has to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASSANDRA COLLINS, CELL MATE: She said that if she was given a death sentence, she wanted to get her revenge. She knows inmates on the outs to do a Mafia bow tie.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Meaning what?
COLLINS: Cut his throat.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you feel like she was threatening prosecutor Juan Martinez`s life?
COLLINS: Yes, I do. I believe she would really try to harm someone, I really do. I think she`s very dangerous. Very dangerous.
She manipulates every inmate there, and tries to control how they think about her case. She`s very much -- she`ll suffocate you to death. Does that make sense? With her version and her side of her case. When I got released out, it was, thank you, God. I felt like I was delivered out of hell.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And Cassandra claims Jodi asked her some strange questions about prosecutor Juan Martinez.
COLLINS: She asked me questions like why doesn`t Juan Martinez love me? And I`m like love you? He`s your prosecutor. He`s there to prosecute you for a crime. Why doesn`t he love you? Are you serious?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was she serious?
COLLINS: She was really serious. yes. She wanted to know why Juan Martinez didn`t love her. I`m like, she`s out of her freakin` mind!
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: That is video of Jodi Arias` cellmate Cassandra Collins from KSAZ. Straight to out to David Bodney, First Amendment lawyer. He is fighting for transparency in the Arias case. Now we find out, David, all the proceedings, the retrial and the penalty phase will be shrouded in secrecy. Why?
DAVID BODNEY, ATTORNEY: Well, it`s difficult to know, but the judge has made reference to the fair trial rights of Jodi Arias, but there have been hearings upon hearings, closed to the press and public, and we -- we either don`t know about those hearings, or aren`t given an opportunity to object to the closure, or find out about the closure only well after the fact.
GRACE: So the courtroom is going to be closed. The judge will not let us in to televise proceedings, which flies in the face of the constitutional right to an open courtroom.
Out to Clark Goldband. What did the Maricopa County prosecutor PIO say about a witness being merely incompetent?
GOLDBAND: Well, he`s telling us that this woman, whom we`re hearing speak out, may not be mentally competent, and in fact had a charge of harassment recently dismissed against her because she wasn`t competent to stand trial. But Nancy, I want to bring something else up, Jodi Arias, I don`t know if you`ve heard, is active again on Twitter, and guess what, she`s tweeting about wasting water in the jail. She complains that a toilet was stuck on flush for 26 hours, and wonders how many thousands of gallons of water is being wasted.
GRACE: Come back to me when you`ve got something relevant to report, Clark.
To Brian Skoloff, who wrote "Killer Girlfriend: The Jodi Arias Story." I want to hear your take on what`s going on, Brian, and thank you for being with us.
BRIAN SKOLOFF, AUTHOR: Thank you, Nancy. Yes, I mean, as David Bodney mentioned there, it`s hard to know what`s going on behind closed doors. This judge has done a complete about-face. As you know, we had practically unfettered access to the first trial, as is a constitutional rights to attend the trials and watch the proceedings. Now we`ve seen a complete about-face. No live television coverage, not even allowing electronic devices to be used. So there won`t be any Twitter updates throughout the trial. And (inaudible), and this will go on and on, at hearing after hearing, as David said, without reason for closure other than (inaudible).
GRACE: With me, Brian Skoloff, author of "Killer Girlfriend: The Jodi Arias Story." I understand Arias made a handwritten notion to fire her lawyer. So she dumps her lawyers around the time that it comes to light she threatened to slit the throat of her prosecutor, Juan Martinez. What about that handwritten letter, dumping, firing her lawyers?
SKOLOFF: Nancy, it was actually very well-written. It was about 12 pages. She made some good points. She claims that Kurt Narmy (ph), her lead lawyer, hasn`t visited her in months, has no tolerance for her personality and had been squandering county resources. You`d think an allegation like that to fire her attorney would be open to the public for arguments over that, but it was not. The judge closed it. We had no idea what the arguments were about, and she denied the motion.
GRACE: To Dr. William Morrone, medical examiner, Madison Heights. Dr. Morrone, I`ve heard of a Mafia bow tie, I`m sure you have, too. That`s what Arias is allegedly threatening to do to Juan Martinez, her lawyer. Explain what that is, a Mafia bow tie.
MORRONE: Slit from ear to ear, and then they pull the tongue out through the hole, and the tongue is the tie. It`s gruesome, and it`s meant as a symbol. Very symbolic.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cassandra says Arias told her if she gets the death penalty, she was going to go after key players in the case.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She wanted to get her revenge. She knows inmates on the outs to do a Mafia bow tie.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that was the truth. Wasn`t it?
ARIAS: No. That wasn`t the truth.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you saying that you lied to them again?
ARIAS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s very much -- she`ll suffocate you to death. Does that make sense?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s video of Jodi Arias`s cellmate Cassandra Collins from KSAZ. We are taking your calls right now live from Arizona. We learn behind bars Jodi Arias allegedly threatens to slit the throat of prosecutor Juan Martinez, just like she did Travis. That would, of course, be Travis Alexander, her then on/off boyfriend. Found dead in his own home. Slumped over dead in the shower, stabbed 29 times.
Unleash the lawyers. With me, O.J. Simpson lawyer, Yale Galanter, and also veteran trial lawyer Renee Rockwell, Atlanta. That`s not what you want to have your client pop up and say behind bars, Renee. She is threatening to slit somebody else`s throat.
RENEE ROCKWELL, ATTORNEY: Nancy, what is cheaper and more ridiculous than a jailhouse snitch? And it only tells me that the prosecution, if they try to promote that, is worried about their case, the strength of their case.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: That`s not what it tells me. Galanter, when I was trying one felony after the next and we would be on trial for weeks on end, one case after the next, all felonies, you`ve got one shot at a verdict, and my theory was -- if you`ve got it, show it. Give everything you`ve got to a jury. Don`t hold back, because you will not get a second chance.
GALANTER: Yes. I did that as a prosecutor also, Nancy, and here, what you really have is, if you`ve got a jailhouse witness like this, whose mental capacity is an issue.
GRACE: We don`t know that.
GALANTER: Well if it is -- that`s what I`m saying. If it is an issue and she`s had a case dismissed or reduced because of her mental incapacity, then the statement is purely subject, according to interpretation, may not be admissible anyway. But let`s all remember, she`s already been found guilty. So the only issue here is life or death, and whether or not Juan Martinez can put forward enough aggravators and mitigators to determine the penalty.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: She`s back. Right when you thought Jodi Arias would go away, she`s back. According to a cell mate, she said she wants to slit the throat of her prosecutor, Juan Martinez, in the same manner she slit the throat of Travis Alexander, from ear to ear. Alexis Teresczuk, senior reporter, radaronline.com. Alexis, when is the retrial on the sentencing phase?
TERESCZUK: It`s scheduled right now to start in mid January 2014. But who knows? We don`t know if the judge will postpone it, because she`ll decide it behind closed doors. But as for now it will be back in session in January.
GRACE: Brian Skoloff, author of "Killer Girlfriend: The Jodi Arias Story. " If these claims by the cell mate are true, are you surprised?
SKOLOFF: Well, Nancy, as the other attorney had mentioned, at this point they are completely unsubstantiated, and you have to question the mental capacity of the person making the claims. But if they were true, of course it`s not a surprise. Jodi Arias is a convicted murderer. It wouldn`t be a surprise she`d want to kill somebody else.
GRACE: Everyone, let`s stop and remember American hero, Army First Lieutenant Scott Milley, 23, Sudbury, Massachusetts. Bronze Star, Purple Heart, National Defense Service Medal, loved rugby and a puppy he rescued named Bentley. Parents Stephen and Janice, brother Stephen, sister Ashley. Scott Milley, American hero.
And tonight a special happy birthday to our friend Barbara Debelis (ph). Loves cooking, love her kitty cats, growing plants, and her sister Dominique.
Everyone, this holiday season, we support the Murphy Harps home for abused children. Go to nancygrace.com for special merchandise, holiday packages, including our signature handcuff necklace, travel mugs, murder mystery books. But order soon, get your deliveries for Christmas. Again, we are supporting Murphy Harps home for abused children.
Drew up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
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