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Nancy Grace

Movie Theater Murder Because of Popcorn?; Child`s Sleepover Ends in Murder

Aired January 15, 2014 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Off the top, we go live, Tampa suburbs. At this hour, new and shocking details emerging after a retired cop seemingly goes ballistic and guns down a young father for texting in a Florida Cobb theater.

Bombshell tonight. Retired cop Curtis Reeves`s defense? Popcorn! That`s right, he says he acted in self-defense, that he was protecting himself against a bag of popcorn?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The victim was using texting on his phone. That caused the suspect to get very upset.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Reeves told him to stop, went to get security, and when he came back...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Suspect draws a weapon, shoots the victim and kills him in there in the theater.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We do not believe that there was any reason why (INAUDIBLE) be able to be justifying the fact that they say it`s a "stand your ground" case.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And tonight, live to Oakland, a parent`s worst dream come true. They let their 8-year-old little girl, Alaysha, go for one of her very first sleepovers ever. Alaysha ends up dead at an 8-year-old`s sleepover?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An 8-year-old girl is playing school with two other young children during a sleepover when, suddenly, the unthinkable!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The smiling 8-year-old, nicknamed Ladybug, was shot and killed answering the door at a friend`s house while attending a sleepover. Three others were also hit.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How could it have happened?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And tonight, a 34-year-old mother and TV reality star busted on claims she repeatedly has sex with a 13-year-old boy. Police say the star of TLC`s "Cheer Perfection" had an ongoing, quote, "sex relationship" with the little boy, including full-on sex and oral sex on multiple occasions, including in her own home and car! The reality star cooks her own goose by sending sexy text messages to the little boy, which no doubt will end up as state`s exhibit number one.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) made a pee (ph) on your neck.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From the reality show screen...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The first thing that came to my mind was, I`ve got to pee (ph) on her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... to a mug shot.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Andrea Clevenger (ph) is now the subject of an affidavit, one that describes how Clevenger allegedly raped a 13-year-old boy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh! (INAUDIBLE) on it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And tonight, a family -- mom, dad, daughter -- sit down to perform a little genealogy test, and only then does their daughter make the shocking discovery she has absolutely no biological connection to her own father! Tonight, we uncover a sperm plot (ph) that may have gone on for up to 20 years, a sperm switch at a Salt Lake City fertility clinic.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... is accused of switching his sperm with that of this little girl`s father.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Trouble getting pregnant.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They received artificial insemination, reproductive medical technologies. Lippert worked in the lab.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My daughter`s and my husband`s DNA -- they didn`t share any DNA at all. The unthinkable and unbelievable was true.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lippert is, indeed, father.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And tot mom, Casey Anthony, back in the news. Or should I say her pants are! That`s right, you can go on line and purchase for your very own tot mom, Casey Anthony`s, used clothing! Tot mom acquitted in the horrific murder of her 2-year-old daughter, Caylee. OK, tot mom`s pants on sale! Freaky!

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For sale, several pairs of size 4 to 8 pants previously owned by Casey Anthony.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) items.

CASEY ANTHONY, ACQUITTED OF MURDER: ... pick up Caylee, like it was a normal day.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Too busy with herself.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We found a human skull.

ANTHONY: I look like hell!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not guilty.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We won, they lost.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She kept her head up high.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight.

Bombshell tonight. Off the top, we go live to the Tampa suburbs. At this hour, new and shocking details emerging after a retired cop seemingly goes ballistic and guns down a young father for texting in a Florida Cobb theater? Retired cop Curtis Reeves`s defense? Popcorn! That`s right, he says he acted in self-defense, protecting himself against a bag of popcorn?

Just an FYI. Out to Martin Savidge, CNN anchor and correspondent. One of my dearest friends lives in Wesley Chapel. We have been to that cinema many, many times, Martin, and it`s -- it`s stunning because it`s like the -- it`s like bucolic. It`s domestic serenity. It`s like a dream area to live in, very, very low-crime, and that movie theater looks like it came out of an ad.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And that`s exactly right. That`s how you can easily understand that this neighborhood here is so deeply shocked. The whole nation is absolutely stunned out of what appears to be this incredibly violent act over what seems to be a really minor offense, which is a father who is texting inside of a theater.

It was Monday. It was at a matinee. It was during the film "The Lone Survivor." You had about two dozen people inside of the theater behind me here. And at one point, you`ve got Chad Oulson, who was apparently texting his baby-sitter to check on his 2-year-old daughter.

And right behind him is the man who is the suspect in this particular case, and that`s Curtis Reeves. He`s 71 years old, retired cop, and he`s upset over the texting. He talks about it. They get into an argument. Reeves leaves to go talk to a manager, comes back...

GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait!

SAVIDGE: ... witnesses say even more agitated...

GRACE: Martin! Doesn`t all this happen in just the previews? I mean, we`re not even into the movie yet, for Pete`s sake! They`re there watching, I think it was "Lone Survivor," and you`ve got Chad Oulson with his wife, and he`s the one that loves dirt bikes and his 3-year-old daughter, and he`s texting the baby-sitter to give messages to his 3-year- old little girl.

And then behind him is the 71-year-old retired police officer, Curtis Reeves, and his wife. And isn`t it true, Martin, before we can even get to the feature film, they`re having words because...

SAVIDGE: Right.

GRACE: ... Oulson -- I don`t guess he was talking on the phone, he was just texting, and the light was bothering everybody? Is that -- is that the deal?

SAVIDGE: Right. And he said, Look, he had a very legitimate reason. He was trying to get in touch with the baby-sitter. He loves his little girl. He wanted to check on her before the film began, you`re right. It`s in the previews.

That didn`t seem to in any way assuage the feeling of Reeves. He got upset. He left, then returned. The altercation verbally got louder, and then at one point, there is popcorn thrown, according to witnesses, and that is when Reeves pull out -- pulls out a gun and fires one fatal shot.

GRACE: Oh! Is it true -- Martin Savidge, everybody, Martin joining me right there in Wesley Chapel, on the scene -- Martin, is it true that, first of all, the 71-year-old retired police officer gets up, and does he actually go and complain to the management about the texting?

SAVIDGE: He leaves, and that`s his intent. According to authorities that we`ve spoken to, he went to the manager, but the manager was talking to another customer. So they never actually spoke. Instead, apparently, Mr. Reeves, even more agitated, returns to the theater and begins to argue again.

GRACE: OK, Martin Savidge joining us and taking your calls there in Wesley Chapel -- overnight, the stunning defense has emerged. He`s claiming it was "stand your ground" self-defense because he claims Oulson threw either popcorn or a bag of popcorn at him.

And Justin, let me see the video. Now there`s a big brouhaha, Martin Savidge. People are complaining that police handcuffed Reeves in the front and not the back. And everybody`s all up in arms, saying he got preferential treatment because he was handcuffed in the front. What do you know about that, Martin?

SAVIDGE: Well, this is a claim that has been made because, first and foremost, it was feared that this 71-year-old ex-cop might get preferential treatment because he was known widely in the area, had a very strong and long record.

However, it was said by the sheriff that, look, this man`s not getting any preferential treatment. Whether his hands were handcuffed in front or in the back -- that is at the discretion of the arresting officer. That officer decided putting the hands in front was OK at that particular time. He was escorted at some distance to the vehicle, but they say he`s not getting any special treatment. In fact, the sheriff was emphatic he may have been a good cop, but you do not get to shoot and kill somebody over texting.

GRACE: Well, speaking of the sheriff, let`s hear it straight from the horse`s mouth. Joining me from Pasco County, Florida, is Sheriff Chris Nocco, the Pasco -- from the Pasco County sheriff`s office.

Sheriff, thank you for being with us. You know, I`ve been in law enforcement since the beginning of my legal career, and SOP typically is to handcuff behind the back. But you know what? It`s not always that way. There are a lot of different scenarios that allow handcuffing in the front. The bottom line is, you guys made the arrest. The man`s in jail waiting for justice to unfold.

SHERIFF CHRIS NOCCO, PASCO COUNTY (via telephone): You`re correct. And thanks for having me on. You know, in reference to preferential treatment, he`s been charged with second degree murder. The one thing is (INAUDIBLE) if you can see in the photograph, he`s in a white jumpsuit. The reason why he`s in that white jumper is because we had just taken all his clothes for evidence. So to -- you know, basically, he was searched. There was no weapons he had on him.

And our general order, because he`s an elderly individual, being elderly, the deputy has the discretion to put the handcuffs in front. What people don`t see in the photograph is we had over 40 deputies in that area. There was nowhere for the individual to go. The reason why the deputy was out front was because he was opening up the door to get the arrested individual inside.

The other thing about the preferential treatment -- people have some - - you know, have started that out there on social media. Well, you know, just to show how committed we are to get a conviction in this case, the state attorney`s office was right there. Manny Garcia (ph) was side by side with us. We were working through to make sure that we can get a conviction in this case.

(INAUDIBLE) we could have referred this to the state attorney`s office, which means we can let him go at that point, and then go back and reestablish do we have enough to arrest him. Well, we kept him there with us to ensure that, you know, we did not show any type of preferential treatment because the main priority for us was to get justice for the victim. And I can assure our citizens, you know, getting charged with second degree murder is not preferential treatment.

GRACE: With me is Sheriff Chris Nocco with the Pasco County sheriff`s office. And the reality is, Sheriff, when you`re cuffing and you`re trying to subdue somebody, a lot of different factors weigh in. Here, you were not being resisted. You`ve got a 71-year-old former cop. It`s not like you had to beat him down with a baton and drag him away.

Is it true, Sheriff, can you confirm that there are reports -- I`m not saying they`re true or false -- that Mr. Reeves has argued before with people in movies, in the cinema?

NOCCO: You know, what had happened, in the past couple days, we have had somebody come forward to say that in the same theater, there was a man that was being argumentative with her because of her texting. What we`re doing right now is we`re going back into the theater. We are looking for video and trying to see if her statements are true and to possibly see if there`s video that would show us who the person she`s describing is.

GRACE: With me is the sheriff, and he is taking your calls.

Out to Rita Cosby, investigative journalist. All right, Rita, what else do we know?

RITA COSBY, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: Well, in addition to this prior case -- this woman in this prior case with Curtis Reeves, Nancy, said not only was some guy glaring at her but followed her all the way to the bathroom. So there`s interesting history there.

The other thing about Curtis Reeves, Nancy -- this I think is really chilling. After he fired the shot -- and again, he claims some object was thrown at him. We know now it`s a bag of popcorn. But he said at that point, he opened fire, he shot, then he sat down. He calmly put the gun down, but the gun jammed. But other folks in the movie were just looking at him, and he just calmly sat down as if almost nothing even happened, very, very chilling.

GRACE: With me right now is Frank Taaffe, an outspoken supporter of "stand your ground." All right, Taaffe. You argued "stand your ground" with George Zimmerman, in his favor. A bag of popcorn, Taaffe?

FRANK TAAFFE, FRIEND OF GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: Well, Nancy, let`s look at the statute. It says a person has the presumed -- is presumed to have had a reasonable fear of the peril of imminent death or grave bodily harm.

Look at the statute. Is it applicable here? Yes. It was a theater. They didn`t know each other. Mr. Reeves felt that he might have been -- presumed and presumption...

GRACE: I can`t believe you`re arguing about...

TAAFFE: Wait a minute! Wait a minute!

GRACE: ... a bag of popcorn.

TAAFFE: Presumption of innocence -- isn`t that part of the whole due process?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Tonight, chilling details emerging in the so-called movie murder. The popcorn defense has been raised. And with me, Frank Taaffe, an outspoken advocate of the "stand your ground" laws in Florida. He even defended George Zimmerman under that theory.

All right, please, if you can for a moment, Taaffe -- I don`t want to hear you say "Constitution" or "due process," OK? Now, you`re...

TAAFFE: How about cognitive dissonance?

GRACE: You`re telling me...

TAAFFE: How about cognitive dissonance?

GRACE: ... that popcorn -- if you get a bag of popcorn thrown at you, then you have the right to react by shooting a gun. Am I correct?

TAAFFE: You know, you weren`t in the theater. I wasn`t there. There are witnesses. That`s why he has a Mr. Escobar (ph), who is a very good attorney...

GRACE: (INAUDIBLE)

TAAFFE: About what? Yes, no, what?

GRACE: That`s the question.

TAAFFE: Is it self-defense?

GRACE: You`re arguing that he is innocent under...

TAAFFE: He went out...

GRACE: ... "stand your ground," and...

TAAFFE: He went out to the lobby...

GRACE: ... he defended himself against a bag of popcorn!

TAAFFE: Look, we`re talking about a retired captain of the Tampa police force who...

GRACE: True.

TAAFFE: ... led the tactical unit division, head up the division. And most of all, he was in charge of security at one of the local -- I believe it was Busch Gardens.

GRACE: Yes. Yes. And?

TAAFFE: And you know, I`m sure he had a battery of psychological exams that he had to go through. You know, this wasn`t an off-the-cuff thing. And that thing about the girl that...

GRACE: So you`re not going to answer.

TAAFFE: ... he followed to the bathroom -- I did answer it. I just answered it.

GRACE: Look, it`s one thing -- you argued in Zimmerman, which I disagreed with, that Zimmerman...

TAAFFE: Right. That`s called...

GRACE: ... was under threat of his life...

TAAFFE: ... cognitive dissonance!

GRACE: OK, now you`re arguing...

TAAFFE: That`s when your beliefs don`t match up with reality. Your beliefs don`t match up with reality. That`s cognitive dissonance. In this case here...

GRACE: OK, you know what?

TAAFFE: ... there was a presumed...

GRACE: I`m getting nowhere with you.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Out to the lines. Rebecca in California. Hi, Rebecca. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Actually, I have a couple of questions now listening over the commentations (sic) that were made during (INAUDIBLE)

GRACE: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, chappy (ph) is -- I think we have a premeditated murder here because, if anything, first of all, if the man walked out, he walked back in, your premeditating your thought of doing something to the man that was sitting there, texting. That`s a premeditated thought right there.

Second of all, how was his record while he was on the force? Did he have any kind of...

GRACE: OK, hold on. Let`s get to that. Let`s get to that. That`s a good question. To Sheriff Nocco joining me from Pasco County. What do we know about his history on the force?

NOCCO: That`s something you`d have to refer to Tampa PD. We`re a different agency.

GRACE: Yes, you`re right.

NOCCO: I`m not familiar with his...

GRACE: You`re right. You`re right. Good point, Sheriff.

Martin Savidge, CNN anchor and correspondent, joining me, Wesley Chapel. What do we know? I mean, if these allegations are true, he was yelling at or confronting a female moviegoer over the same thing just a few days before, I mean, that does suggest he has issues.

SAVIDGE: Well, there are two things. Number one, the Tampa Police Department did release to CNN a rather larger document dump that showed the history of Reeves`s activity when he was on the force. He was actually commendated (sic) a number of times. He is considered to be a very good officer, and there were many, many compliments throughout his long career in which officers who had served with him and said -- put their lives on the line with him, that they believed his decision making was sound...

GRACE: And you know what, Marty?

SAVIDGE: ... but he did have a temper.

GRACE: Martin Savidge, you know that that is going to be reputation or character evidence at trial, what a great cop he was. Thank you, Martin Savidge and Sheriff Nocco.

SAVIDGE: You`re welcome.

GRACE: When we come back, a parent`s worst nightmare comes true. They let their little 8-year-old girl, Alaysha, go for one of her very first sleepovers ever. Alaysha ends up dead at an 8-year-old`s sleepover.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Live, Oakland, a parent`s worst nightmare comes true. They let their little 8-year-old girl, Alaysha, go for one of her very first sleepovers ever. Alaysha ends up dead. Dead at an 8-year-old girl`s sleepover?

Straight out to reporter from "The San Francisco Chronicle" Henry K. Lee. Henry, it`s hard to take in. This little girl has her first sleepover, and she ends up dead?

HENRY K. LEE, "SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE" (via telephone): That`s right, Nancy, just a terrible situation. She`s at her friend`s house in a relatively nice part of Oakland. Someone rings the doorbell, and she and her playmates open the door. And even without knowing who was on the other side, a gunman opens fire, killing Alaysha and injuring her playmates and her grandmother -- just a terrible situation.

GRACE: Oh! One of her very first sleepovers ever, and she ends up dead! Can you imagine the call to that mother?

Clark Goldband, take me through the crime.

CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Sure, Nancy. We obtained crime scene photos. Let`s take you through it. Behind me, you see the home. This is the crime scene. And what happened is that suspect runs right up to the front door. And if we advance on to the next screen, guys, you can see a close-up of the door. And he continues. He doesn`t stop. In fact, he opens fire at least 12 shots fired through the steel gate. And then behind that gate, there you see the door in the background. Let`s take a look at that.

And Nancy, perhaps one of the saddest aspects of this story, according to authorities, you can hear the girl screaming, Don`t let me die. Now, people are surprised. Why can you hear this? I`ll show you why. Take a look behind me. You hear the girl screaming, Don`t let me die. Why can you hear that? Law enforcement now wearing a state-of-the-art body camera, and it recorded the whole thing. It certainly will come into evidence.

GRACE: When we come back, a daughter makes the shocking discovery she has absolutely no biological connection to her own father. Tonight, we uncover a sperm swap that may have gone on for up to 20 years at a Salt Lake City fertility clinic.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: A family -- mom, dad and daughter -- sit down to perform a little genealogy test. They`re doing a project, like on Ancestry.com. And only then does the daughter make the shocking discovery she has absolutely no biological connection to her own father.

And tonight, we uncover a sperm swap that may have gone on for up to 20 years at a popular Salt Lake City fertility clinic.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I remember that he was at the front desk a lot of the time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lippert also worked in the lab and kept a collection of baby pictures behind his desk.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was very proud of all those pictures. You know, his -- it almost seemed like a brag board up there.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I kind of figured out that if he did this once a month for the nine years that he was there, that would be over 100 children.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: That was from CBS "This Morning." What a shocker. You sit down and do some kind of a little project like on ancestry.com. It`s a genealogy thing, and sitting right there at the table, you discover your father is not really your father. Your biological father, anyway. And it was just as much of a shock to the mom and dad. They had no idea. Tonight, uncovered a sperm swap that may have been going on for up to 20 years.

Straight out to Matthew Piper with Salt Lake Tribune. Matthew, I`m stunned. What happened?

MATTHEW PIPER, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: Well, essentially, you know, Thomas Lippert worked at this Salt Lake City fertility clinic, and this Texas family believes that Thomas inserted his own -- used his own semen to inseminate the mother.

GRACE: Oh, dear Lord in heaven. Rita Cosby, what more do we know?

COSBY: We know when they were doing -- this is the Barnum (ph) family -- they were doing this genealogy project, Nancy. What happened was they submitted some DNA, and they found out right away that Annie, the 21-year- old daughter, was not connected to her father. They traced it then back, got a genetic expert, and then they determined it tied to this guy, Thomas Lippert.

What we do know, what`s staggering about this Thomas Lippert, Nancy, I wonder why he was even working in this clinic to begin with. He was a convicted felon from a 1975 kidnapping. What was he doing even working in a fertility clinic for more than 10 years?

GRACE: More on that. Put Rita back up for me. Rita, on that kidnapping, you know the details on that? Rita, he kidnaps a girl -- I guess a teen or a co-ed, and he locks her up in some room and holds her hostage. He didn`t rape her, that we know of. What he did was stun her, give her electrical impulses to make her fall in love with him. He called it a love science project. Yes. So he`s crazy. And he`s working at this fertility clinic. In addition to Matthew Piper, and Rita Cosby, joining me right now, Cece Moore, genealogy expert who actually helped uncover the swap allegation. Thank you for being with us. What do you know about this case?

CECE MOORE, DNA GENEALOGY EXPERT: I was contacted by Pam, the mother, in October of 2012. She informed me that Don, her husband, did not show a genetic match to her daughter Annie. They had tested at 23andme. I asked her if she wanted to learn who the biological family was of her daughter, and she did.

GRACE: Oh. What a shocker. Let`s get down to the basics. To Dr. Ann Contrucci, well-known physician in the Atlanta jurisdiction. What happens at an IVF clinic -- Dr. Ann, I think in this case, it wasn`t even as advanced as IVF, it was artificial insemination, which should be a very easy procedure.

DR. ANN CONTRUCCI, PHYSICIAN: That`s correct, Nancy. And typically, at a sperm bank, these are very well-screened donors, especially if they`re anonymous donors. They`re screened for certain medical diseases, certain genetic diseases, you know, family history, medical history, and that`s the scary thing about this, is this man -- let`s forget the fact that he was a convicted felon, which just blows my mind that he was working there, but the fact that we don`t even have any medical history on him, we don`t have any known genetic history on him. It`s shocking.

GRACE: Back to you, Clark Goldband. Fill in the blanks.

GOLDBAND: Here`s what the wife of this man is really worried about. Take a look at this. He worked there for nine years. So if this gentleman worked at that fertility clinic for nine years, and he did this once a month as his wife worries, that is over 100 times that this may have happened. People all over the region, and for that matter, the U.S., are concerned.

Now, take a look at this, Nancy. We`ve obtained the actual samples of this DNA testing. And as you can see, all the colors mean certain regions of the world. So here is the girl`s sample, the 21-year-old. Fine. Here`s how you compare it. 50 percent from the dad and 50 percent from the mom. We`ve got these samples, and if we take a look at them, look at this. You can see the mom and the dad, and when you match them up to the girl`s sample, there is nothing there from her father, certainly a huge shock in that household. And Nancy, this last slide shows Lippert is the grandmother of the girl. That is the mom of this employee at the clinic.

GRACE: To Jean Lippert, joining us now, the widow of Thomas Lippert. Ms. Lippert, thank you for being with us. How did you find out originally that your husband had been swapping sperm?

JEAN LIPPERT, WIDOW: I found out by watching TV.

GRACE: Oh, dear Lord. Do you think your husband did it intentionally?

LIPPERT: I`m sure he did.

GRACE: Why do you say that? I mean, I don`t see how he could have done it unintentionally, but why do you say that?

LIPPERT: Because of the type of person he was. He liked to have control, and I think he wasn`t the most honest person. I think he would have done it for an ego trip.

GRACE: For an ego trip. Okay, that`s scary. With me is the then- wife of Tom Lippert. I understand he always carried a photo of a child in his wallet. Is that true?

LIPPERT: Yes.

GRACE: And who was the child?

LIPPERT: I don`t know who that child was. All I know is Tom said he was one of the children that he fathered, and I thought it was a girl, but I found out talking (inaudible) that it was a boy.

GRACE: Straight out to Caryn Stark, psychologist. Caryn, you hear his then-wife claiming he was on a power trip and she`s sure he did it intentionally. Come on, the guy is masturbating, replacing his sperm in all of these vials. You know he did it more than once a month, for Pete`s sake. He probably did it several times a day.

STARK: I agree, Nancy. You know what it makes me think of? It`s like Johnny Appleseed. He`s sowing his seeds all over the place because he gets to have control. And to watch them blossom and to know that he has this secret, that he`s behind the whole thing.

GRACE: And don`t you know, Caryn, that when parents would send in the photos of their children to the IVF or the fertility clinic, he would look at them and think, they`re all my children.

Unleash the lawyers. Peter Odom and Bradford Cohen. Peter in Atlanta, Bradford in Fort Lauderdale. First to you, Peter Odom. A lot of employees at this clinic worked at the university there.

ODOM: Correct.

GRACE: The university is claiming, no, no, we don`t have anything to do with that.

ODOM: Of course.

GRACE: But the families that may be involved say, oh, yes, you do.

ODOM: The clinic was staffed largely by university employees. Of course, now they`re trying to distance themselves from it because they see massive liability here.

GRACE: Massive.

ODOM: But the trail leads right back to the university, and you know that these people came to this clinic based on the reputation of Utah University. So they`re on the hook.

GRACE: And not only that, Bradford Cohen, to hire someone that you either know or you should know is a convicted felon.

COHEN: That`s going to be part of a civil action, of course, some sort of negligent hiring. The business itself is out of business, so they`re going to go to the next deep pocket, which is obviously the university, or if that business had any insurance, they will also go after that.

My question is, if the wife knew about this at the time, why didn`t the wife come forward? It seems like she knew--

GRACE: We don`t have any evidence that she knew that he did it. But --

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: -- she had no idea that he was masturbating, and using his sperm to replace in these vials. And then all these women would go to this clinic and lay there and get impregnated by this convicted felon, unbeknownst to them. Oh, yes, there will be a lawsuit, but I don`t think the widow had any idea what was going on.

Everyone, I want to tell you about tonight`s case alert to Memphis and the search for a a seven-week-old baby girl, missing from her own home. After mommy leaves the baby to take her 5-year-old to school, mommy says when she gets home, baby Aniston gone. Tip line, 901-528-CASH.

And when we come back, a 34-year-old mother and TV reality star of TLC`s "Cheer Perfection" busted. Claims she repeatedly had sex with a 13- year-old boy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: A 34-year-old mother and TV reality star busted on claims she repeatedly had sex with a 13-year-old boy. Police say the TLC star of "Cheer Perfection" had an ongoing sex relationship with the little boy, including full-on sex and oral sex on multiple occasions, including in her own home and in her car. The reality TV star cooked her own goose. She sent sexy text messages to the little boy, which will no doubt end up as state`s exhibit number 1.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Andrea Clevenger was a regular on the TLC show "Cheer Perfection."

ANDREA CLEVENGER: (inaudible).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Eight-page report that graphically describes how Clevenger allegedly took advantage of a 13-year-old boy.

CLEVENGER: What? No.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mommy, you`re disgusting.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In this affidavit, the two had oral sex on multiple occasions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: You`re seeing video from TLC`s hit reality show, "Cheer Perfection." First of all, Matt Zarrell, what role does she play in "Cheer Perfection?"

ZARRELL: Nancy, she is the mother of one of the cheerleading kids that is portrayed on the show. They`re all these very competitive cheerleaders that all belong to the same gym in Arkansas.

GRACE: So one of these little girls is her daughter?

ZARRELL: Yes, correct.

GRACE: And she, according to police, is having sex -- this is not having sex, this is child molestation -- with a 13-year-old boy? Do I have my facts straight?

ZARRELL: Yes, you do.

GRACE: Caryn Stark, how is that going to play at the little daughter`s school, her little high school? Hey, your mom had sex with Tommy!

STARK: Well, Nancy, she is going to be so ashamed. But so will the boy, because the boy doesn`t know how to deal with it. I would think that he came forward out of wanting to finally get it off his chest, but he`s not developmentally able to cope with an older woman having sex with him.

GRACE: Caryn, Caryn.

STARK: Yes, Nancy.

GRACE: Caryn, the girl, the little girl, she`s on this reality show. Everybody in the world knows who she is if you`re into reality shows, and now her mother? I mean, when I think of my mother, I literally think of an angel. I`m surprised she doesn`t have wings and a halo. That`s how perfect I think she is. And you have got to live with the fact your mom is accused -- and those teenage years, too -- your mom is accused of having sex with the little boy? Hello!

STARK: There is nothing -- that`s the most shameful part, Nancy. She`s going to feel terribly ostracized from her friends. Actually, your mother is an angel. But this little girl has to cope with the fact that her mother is not an angel.

GRACE: Out to the lawyers. Peter Odom, Bradford Cohen, but first, Matt Zarrell, what is the evidence we have that this really happened? I know the 13-year-old boy came forward and told a counselor, but what is the hard evidence we`ve got?

ZARRELL: Police have explicit photos sent by the mother --

GRACE: Whoa, whoa, wait a minute, wait a minute. Explicit photos of what?

ZARRELL: Let me go through it. There are 18 photos of bare breasts. There are six photos of women`s genitalia, and there are six more photos of breasts with underwear. In addition --

GRACE: Whoa. Wait. Did you say breasts with underwear?

ZARRELL: Yes.

GRACE: Okay, I don`t need to hear any more. Unleash the lawyers, Peter Odom. Bradford Cohen. What are you going to say, Peter Odom, those aren`t her breasts?

ODOM: She`s confessed to doing this, so there`s no question that it happened. The real question--

GRACE: She may have confessed, but do you really think that`s going to stop her from going to trial when they offer her time behind bars?

ODOM: If they offer time behind bars, she probably will go to trial. I`ll tell you, Nancy--

GRACE: And I can see her on the stand, those aren`t my breasts.

ODOM: I`m not saying that this should be this way, but I will tell you that jurors tend to care a lot less about female-on-male sexual assaults like this, than they do about male-on-female sexual assaults.

GRACE: Thanks. And I hear a little echo, I hear Bradford Cohen, he`s right. Is that you, Cohen? Weigh in with an original thought.

COHEN: Here is my original thought, is that a lot of times with omissions, it goes to the weight of the admission. Whether or not it`s even going to be allowed in. You don`t know how the admission took place. And then once you listen to the admission, maybe it was leading. There was a lot of things -- there are a million cases that I`ve had where there were admissions where it came back not guilty. You don`t know all the facts of this case. Certainly, if she decided to take a plea, in my experience, I`ve seen a lot less severe plea negotiations take place when it`s a female offender and a male victim.

GRACE: That may be true, but let me remind both of you that lady justice is blind as to whether the victim is male or female.

COHEN: But that`s really not the case.

GRACE: Yes, that`s what you say.

To Dr.--

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: -- joining us. You have dealt in the ER with so many children who have been molested. How does something like this affect a child?

CONTRUCCI: As I was reading about this, Nancy, these children, especially this age, I think Caryn said it earlier, they developmentally are not ready to even handle this or even understand. And a lot of times there is a lot of coercion, I`ll buy you this, I`ll buy you this cool new pair of shoes or whatever. Don`t tell anybody, don`t tell anybody. These children, who do children look to? They look to adults. They trust us. And this poor young man, initially what I found is a lot of times initially they`re kind of in a shock state. They may not -- there may not be a lot of acting out or a lot of behavior changes. It comes later. It comes later. This boy --

GRACE: Another thing you just said, Dr. Ann, Caryn Stark, she said you trust adults. Not just an adult, it`s a friend of the family, and not just a friend of the family, Caryn Stark, but she`s a star. She`s the main star on this "Cheer Perfection" reality show.

STARK: And that would make it be that he would certainly feel that she was an authority who knew what she was doing. There would be much more of a push to respond.

GRACE: Everybody, when we come back, here she is again, tot mom Casey Anthony, she`s back in the news. Or should I say her pants are in the news. That`s right. Now you can go online and purchase your very own pair of tot mom Casey Anthony`s used pants. Tot mom acquitted in the murder of her two-year-old little girl Caylee. OK, going online to buy tot mom`s used pants. Freaky!

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GRACE: Tot mom Casey Anthony back in the news. Or should I say her pants are? That`s right. Now you can go online and buy your very own set of tot mom Casey Anthony`s used pants. Okay, Michael Christian, go ahead, hit me.

CHRISTIAN: If you have ever wanted some of Casey Anthony`s pants, this is your chance. We`re talking about seven pairs of pants, ranging in size from 4 to 8. Also, six purses. These were items that were originally bought at a yard sale that the Anthony`s -- Casey`s parents, George and Cindy Anthony, had last summer in Florida. A woman bought them, then resold them to a man named Eric Holler (ph), who is offering them online for sale, $800 apiece.

GRACE: OK. Kinsey Schofield, social media commentator. I guess that the Internet`s blowing up over tot mom`s used pants.

SCHOFIELD: They are, but probably upsetting to tot mom is that they`re more interested in the website and what you can get from Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer than her pants. Nobody wants her $800 pants, but they are interested in the Jeffrey Dahmer confession, 243 pages for a hundred bucks.

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GRACE: You know, tot mom just can`t stay out of the press, but now her pants are making the headlines. Michael Christian, who attended the Anthony trial along with me when tot mom Casey Anthony acquitted in the murder of her daughter. Michael, again, how did this website get a hold of tot mom`s used pants?

CHRISTIAN: George and Cindy Anthony had a garage sale last year and sold a lot of personal things, including some things that belonged to Casey. We`re talking here about seven pairs of pants and six purses. They were purchased by a woman who attended -- excuse me, attended the garage sale, and then they were repurchased by a man who has now put them online for sale, $800 apiece.

GRACE: Kinsey Schofield, social media commentator, yes, I know that people are making a mint, I call it blood money on memorabilia, selling artifacts from murders, including like dirt where John Wayne Gacy buried the bodies of little boy in his crawl space below his home. Remember he was the clown killer. Items like that. Even toenails where killers have clipped their nails behind bars and sold them. So now tot mom`s pants are right in there with serial killer`s toenails.

SCHOFIELD: And Charles Manson`s Christmas card where he jokes about global warming and smaller snowmen. I can`t imagine what else people -- I cannot imagine purchasing anything remotely like this. I think it`s revolting.

GRACE: Kinsey Schofield, I want to thank you for being with us, because I didn`t have the heart to go to the defense attorneys who would start screaming about free speech and the right to sell your used pants online.

Michael Christian and Kinsey Schofield, thank you.

Let`s stop and remember American hero, Marine Sergeant Zachary Walters, 24, Palm Coast, Florida. Navy and Marine Corps Achievement Medals, National Defense Service Medal, loved visiting his grandparents in Texas. Parents Kelly and Regina, brother Duane, fiancee Victoria. Zachary Walters, American hero.

And tonight, we ask for your prayers for our friend Jaheim. He`s just 13 years old. He was playing basketball, had a knee injury, went to the hospital. He was given morphine for the pain. And he has not come to since. His dream is to be a basketball star. I just want you to wake up. We are praying, Jaheim.

Drew up next, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END