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Nancy Grace
Pot and Booze Lead to Tragedy; Three-Year-Old Boy Kidnapped by Father; Pregnant Woman Murdered for Her Unborn Child
Aired January 22, 2014 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Off the top, live, Tallahassee suburbs. Daddy and a 13-year-old little girl, both drunk with high-grade pot in Daddy`s Nissan Frontier. For some reason, he lets the little girl in the driver`s seat to drive the car. That must have been a lot of booze and a lot of pot.
Bombshell tonight. Tragedy strikes. The little girl mows down Daddy`s 6-year-old baby girl playing in the yard, the 6-year-old child dead. Of course, tonight, marijuana enthusiasts, supporters of legalizing pot, insist pot`s not to blame.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A 13-year-old Florida girl backs up a Nissan frontier pick-up truck and runs over 6-year-old girl Rebecca Courson as she was playing in her yard.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The spokesman said there`s evidence both the girl and Courson had been drinking.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A search of the truck revealed a bag of marijuana. Now little Rebecca Courson is dead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was just a little angel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live, Springfield, a 3-year-old snatched from his own home. Tonight, where is baby Beck?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can`t just hold a little boy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Local authorities and the feds are desperately searching for a missing boy who was kidnapped. Three-year-old Beck Hotsenpiller was dropped off at his father`s home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That was the last time Breci says she saw her son.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Beck`s mother is desperate for answers. Where is 3-year-old Beck?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, after befriending an eight-months-pregnant Worcester woman, a female neighbor tricks her way into Mommy`s home to mount a fatal attack. Why? Cops say to murder the mom-to-be, to beat her, to smother her, and then physically cut the newborn, the unborn, baby girl out of Mommy`s tummy, returning to her own home, posing as a radiant new mom as if the baby`s all hers, even having a baby shower with the stolen baby.
What, did she have Mommy`s blood on her fingernails, or did she get a manicure for the baby shower? That is, until she`s suspected of murder. And in just hours, the trial begins. We are live at the courthouse.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was eight months pregnant.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... whose body was found in a closet of her apartment.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bludgeoned and strangled to death.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The baby was cut from her womb.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thirty-nine-year-old Julie Corey (ph) has pleaded not guilty to the grisly charge, evidence stacking up against the defendant. What will the jury have to say?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, Virginia, killer babysitter. A 22-year-old babysitter frustrated when 1-year-old baby Elijah (ph) cries. So what does she do? She kicks a high chair out from under the baby, beating and suffocating Elijah to death. But then add outrage to that horror, Judge J. Howe Brown (ph) giving the killer babysitter a sweetheart deal that she pay $1 a year to the charity of her choice?
Are you kidding me? She murders this baby, and all she has to do is pay a dollar a year to the charity of her choice? This judge needs to be thrown off the bench, and we are happy to help!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two-year-old Elijah Kneely (ph) was murdered by his young babysitter. Facing 50 years in prison, Judge J.H. Brown gave her only five.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s a slap in the face. The parents deserve some type of just.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re just in shock. We`re pretty shocked by the leniency of the judge.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This child fought until his last breath.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And Cincinnati suburbs. He shoots his 11-year-old little girl as she hides from him in fear, and then gets arrested. But then the icing on the cake. After he shoots his girl to death, he wants a "get out of jail free" pass to go to the funeral, he claims. And guess what? Mommy`s on his side!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s people across the street and there`s screaming. There`s gunshots going off.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say an Ohio father shot and killed his 11- year-old daughter during a slumber party.
911 OPERATOR: Did you hear how many shots?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three or four.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And how reports confirm the father wanted to...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. Live, to Tallahassee suburbs. Daddy and a 13- year-old little girl, both drunk with high-grade marijuana in Daddy`s Nissan Frontier. Daddy, for some inexplicable reason, decides the 13-year- old should drive the car, gets her in the driver`s seat. That must have been a lot of booze and a lot of pot, and of course, a recipe for tragedy. The girl mows down Daddy`s 6-year-old baby girl playing in the yard. The 6-year-old child is dead.
Of course, tonight, marijuana enthusiasts across the country, supporters of legalizing pot, insist that pot is not to blame.
OK, let me get this straight, Rita Cosby. The dad is drunk. The 13- year-old little girl that he decides she should drive, why, because he`s been drinking? She`s reeking of alcohol, too. The truck`s full of high- grade marijuana, they find pot all in his truck. And she runs down the 6- year-old child, but everybody says it`s not the fault of pot? Are you kidding me?
RITA COSBY, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: Yes, it`s unbelievable. And there was a big bag of pot found in the vehicle, Nancy. First of all, he goes in the vehicle, has this 13-year-old, who`s a friend of his daughter`s. She`s supposed to go forward. She backs up, then goes forward. They don`t even realize that they run over his 6-year-old daughter until they get out of the vehicle.
And when cops came -- you hit it right on the head -- they smelled booze, his breath, the 13-year-old`s breath, his 12-year-old`s daughter`s breath, and there is marijuana clearly visible.
GRACE: OK, Rita, I`ve got a new fact. I didn`t know this. Where`s Rita Cosby? Rita, are you telling me they ran over the girl and they didn`t even feel it? Nobody felt anything? They just ultimately got out of the car and noticed a 6-year-old child is dead under the truck?
COSBY: Absolutely. That`s exactly what happened. They didn`t realize it. Remember, it`s a big pickup truck, big wheels -- didn`t know anything until they got out.
GRACE: I didn`t really know how big the wheels were that ran over the 6-year-old girl. Monster wheels are not my problem right now.
Let`s go to Norm Kent, president of the National Organization for Reform of Marijuana (sic), and Brad Lamm, addiction specialist joining us, founder of Breathe Life Healing Centers.
All right, Norm Kent, you insist pot had nothing to do with this.
NORM KENT, PRES., NATIONAL ORGANIZATION FOR REFORM OF MARIJUANA LAWS: Well, I think, first of all, Nancy, you, Brad and I would probably join together in communicating to the children at Jefferson Elementary that sometimes bad things happen to good people, and this was a terrible act, a reckless act...
GRACE: No! No!
KENT: ... that the father should be held culpable for.
GRACE: No! You made that sound like it`s some sort of accident. Bad things happen to good people, like, you know, a tornado or a tsunami wave. No! When a crime is engineered, when you feed a 13-year-old little girl booze and have pot -- what, are they having a big pot party? And then they mow down a 6-year-old child?
KENT: Well, the indication is that the father was consuming alcohol and probably gave that alcohol to the child. NORML has never been and is not now recommending that individuals drive a vehicle impaired. What we`re talking about is an end to prohibition so that legalization, education and regulation will put an end to tragedies like this because people will be so much more alert about the potential harm...
GRACE: Boy, you lost me. You...
KENT: ... and risk to using anything.
GRACE: ... lost me, Norm. What, you`re saying is going to put an end to driving when you`re high on pot? OK, so you want everybody to have recreational marijuana, and you don`t think they`re going to drive? Is that what you`re saying?
KENT: I think you are delusional if you think people aren`t already driving...
GRACE: No, I`m asking you what you`re saying.
KENT: ... with alcohol or drugs in their systems.
GRACE: No, I`m not asking you...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I`m asking you what you`re saying, Norm.
KENT: I am saying that what we need is an informed electorate, and they will act responsibly. We have reduced...
GRACE: Right, like this guy.
KENT: ... alcohol and tobacco consumption in America in the past 40 years...
GRACE: Norm?
KENT: ... by treating it as harm reduction.
GRACE: I`ve got another question for you...
KENT: Sure.
GRACE: ... and then I`m going to bring in Brad Lamm, the founder of Breathe Life Center. Norm, you again advocate everyone should be able to have recreational pot, marijuana, high-grade marijuana in their home. What about the children in the home? What do you want to do with them?
KENT: I want the families and the parents and the older brothers and sisters to share with those children the importance of not reaching for a loaded gun in the cabinet, a whiskey bottle on a shelf, or marijuana that`s not meant for them.
GRACE: Oh, OK.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... don`t have any. OK. All right. Let`s hear from Brad Lamm.
KENT: What I`m saying if we openly -- OK, but if we openly deal with it, Nancy...
BRAD LAMM, ADDICTION SPECIALIST (via telephone): What Norm meant to say was...
KENT: ... then Brad will be able to treat them better.
BRAD LAMM: ... as a lobbyist for the drug industry, he`d like you to stop talking about this because the hard conversations that every parent needs to have with their kid about drugs and alcohol and even sex, those hard conversations that we often don`t want to have about the things that can get out of control and cause us real harm, are really hard to have.
So call Norm what he is. He`s a lobbyist for the drug industry, and that`s what he`s doing today. He`s selling his product, which is legalization of drugs. And the truth is, lots of people suffer from and die under the weight of pot addiction.
GRACE: Brad, I have a question for you.
KENT: There you go again, Brad. May I just respond to that point? Once and for all, Nancy, for Brad to call me a lobbyist...
BRAD LAMM: Norm -- Norm, who pays your salary?
KENT: ... for the drug industry, when he is a shill for a clinic that is making money...
BRAD LAMM: Norm? Norm? Who pays...
KENT: ... every time he appears on your show...
BRAD LAMM: ... your salary?
KENT: As we`ve discussed three times, Brad, I am a not-for-profit advocate for the National Organization...
GRACE: OK...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Stop right there, Norm!
KENT: You are the one making money!
GRACE: Stop, Norm. OK, Liz, cut his mike.
KENT: You get money every time you appear on this show.
GRACE: Cut his mike. Mike. Whoa! Right there, no guest -- I`d like to see the guests! Norm, no guest gets paid for coming on this show. So number one, that`s a lie. We don`t pay guests to tell the truth.
Now, let`s ask the question that Brad Lamm keeps putting to you, and every time he asks you, you say, I work for a non-profit. Great! Perfect! I used to work for a non-profit when I was a prosecutor, but I still got a paycheck.
BRAD LAMM: Oh, my God!
GRACE: So who pays you? That`s his question. Who pays you, Norm?
KENT: NORML survives by the contribution of over a million members across this nation...
BRAD LAMM: Norm is a lobbyist for the drug industry.
KENT: ... who advocate legalization of marijuana.
BRAD LAMM: Which -- and there`s nothing wrong with that...
GRACE: OK...
(CROSSTALK)
BRAD LAMM: That`s what you are, Norm.
KENT: Nancy? Nancy?
BRAD LAMM: You are a lobbyist for the legalization of marijuana.
(CROSSTALK)
KENT: Nancy, I`m not saying Brad gets paid by you.
GRACE: ... cut his mike. Mike. Dead. OK, so he gets paid by -- the group gets paid contributions, and then NORML pays you. Is that correct, Norm Kent?
KENT: Nancy, the Breathe organization that you are constantly showcasing on your show pays Brad. But Norm Kent gets nothing by being an advocate. In fact, as a defense attorney, if pot is legalized, I`m putting myself out of work and business, aren`t I.
GRACE: I`m going to take that -- I`m going to take that as a yes...
BRAD LAMM: Oh, my God.
GRACE: ... that NORML pays him. OK, back to...
(CROSSTALK)
KENT: How many times do I have to say no? What part of "no" does Nancy not understand?
BRAD LAMM: Nancy, here`s the -- here`s the tough thing about pot, is we`ve so normalized it that we think, Oh, the dad got his daughter drunk and there was a bag of pot in the front of the car. And we think, Oh, what an idiot, what a dumb dad.
But the truth is that happens in a lot of families across the country. They just don`t back over somebody and hurt them. All these natural disasters and ruined lives really are the result of us being afraid to talk to our kids about these things that really can cause harm. It`s not just an herb.
GRACE: You know what, Brad?
KENT: And the truth is...
GRACE: You know what, Brad Lamm? I feel -- I`m angry about what the father did, but I also feel so bad for him, Brad, because if you are that zonked out of your mind that you think it`s OK for a drunk 13-year-old girl to drive while your baby is in the front yard, you`ve got to be hooked on either booze or pot or both. And now his child is dead. Oh! Oh, yes, he needs to go to jail, but that doesn`t mean that he is not hurting.
To Deborah Roberts with Florida News Network. Deborah, what more about the facts can you tell us?
DEBORAH ROBERTS, FLORIDA NEWS NETWORK (via telephone): Well, just that little Becca was a beloved child by everybody that knew her, said to be a beautiful little angel, a little 1st-grade angel by the assistant principal at the school where she was a 1st-grader, said that she loved the color purple and everything princesses.
It`s just a tragic story all the way around. Her mother was at work at the time, would have been the only responsible adult, as you know, that would have been home, had the circumstances been different. The father right now is being held on $350,000 bond, and the 13-year-old may still be charged, so there`ll still be more charges forthcoming in this case.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: A man lets a 13-year-old girl drive the car, and together both of them drunk with pot, high-grade pot in the cabin of the truck, run down the 6-year-old little child in the front yard.
To the lines. Shannon, Kentucky. Hi, Shannon. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, has this child used alcohol and pot in the past?
GRACE: Rita Cosby, what do we know, the 13-year-old or the 6-year- old?
COSBY: We don`t have any background on either of them using drugs. We do know the father does not have a criminal record, Nancy.
GRACE: Susan in Tennessee. Hi, Susan. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have a comment. And I think the 13-year-old should be held accountable to a certain degree, just not to the degree the father should be held accountable. Alcohol has more deaths than I think any other drugs do. I lost my brother in 2007 to a drunk driver who crossed the line and hit him and his fiancee.
GRACE: And you know what`s interesting about that, Susan? And I`m sorry for your loss because I can tell it`s something you`re not over. And as a crime victim myself, I don`t think you ever get over it. I think you just learn to go on.
Caryn Stark, why does everyone equate pot with alcohol? Why do they say, Well, you know, it`s not worse than alcohol? Well, does that mean I have to have two bad things, people driving drunk and people driving high?
CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: I just think it`s human nature that they try and compare the two, trying to say, Well, if you legalize one, why wouldn`t you legalize the other, instead of what you`re saying, Nancy, which is, Why are these things even available so that children can get in trouble and hurt themselves exactly the way this happened, which is a crime?
GRACE: When we come back, everyone, we go live to Springfield, a 3- year-old snatched from his own home. Tonight, where is baby Beck?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Springfield, Missouri, a 3-year-old snatched from his own home. Tonight, where`s baby Beck?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KENT: The mother of 3-year-old Beck Hotsenpiller had just brought her son over to his father`s house for a visit. That was the last time she saw him.
KENT: I just want him back. It`s really stressful, so...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Allegedly by his own father.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just thought it would be a normal visit, and he ended up not bringing him back.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That was the last time Breci says she saw her son. Beck`s mother is desperate for answers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight to Kelly Lamm, co-host of "Kelly and Cassandra" on "The Woman." Kelly, what happened?
KELLY LAMM, 1380 AM, "KELLY AND CASSANDRA" CO-HOST(via telephone): You know, we are not sure, except that she had dropped her son off at the father`s house, and now he is nowhere to be found, and the grandparents do not seem to be talking.
GRACE: Autumn Breci is with us, mother of missing boy Beck. Autumn, thank you for being with us. Do you have any idea where they are? And why didn`t the dad have custody? Do you believe he is in danger?
AUTUMN BRECI, MOTHER OF MISSING CHILD (via telephone): I don`t really know any whereabouts of either Beck or Cory. I don`t know what this is going to do to Cory`s mental stability, honestly. It`s kind of scary. Obviously, I`m nervous.
GRACE: Why do you say it`s scary?
BRECI: Because I haven`t seen my son in six months and...
GRACE: Have you heard from the father at all?
BRECI: No.
GRACE: Out to Stacey Newman, on the story. Why do they say the boy is in danger?
STACEY NEWMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Well, Nancy, nobody has heard from this father for months. The last we know is he called a relative to say, I`m taking the boy and I`m going somewhere completely untraceable. His phone has been disconnected. There is no way to find him, and he has no job and no means to take care of this 3-year-old boy.
GRACE: Kelly Lamm, what more do we know about this dad?
KELLY LAMM: We know he doesn`t have a job, like she said. He has made no contact that anyone knows of whatsoever. If he doesn`t have money, how is he taking care of this child, feeding it, diapers? The mother has said (INAUDIBLE) he`s still in diapers when she last dropped him off.
GRACE: I`ve got such a bad, bad feeling about this, Kelly Lamm.
Everybody, let me give you the information. Tip line, 417-869-TIPS, 417-869-8477. There is a reward. Have you seen this man, Cory Hotsenpiller? We believe he has got, unlawfully, little boy Beck. Please help us bring him home safely.
When we come back, a female neighbor tricks her way into Mommy`s home to mount a fatal attack. Why? Cops say to murder the mother-to-be, to beat her, to smother her, then to physically cut the baby girl out of her tummy.
And then later: After he shoots his 11-year-old girl to death, he wants a "get out of jail free" pass.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: A female neighbor tricks her way into Mommy`s home to mount a fatal attack. Cops say she murdered a brand-new mom, beat her, suffocated her and then physically cut the baby girl out of Mommy`s tummy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A 39-year-old Massachusetts woman stands hours away from facing the jury. She`s charged for the gruesome beating and strangulation of a pregnant friend, and the unthinkable, cutting out the victim`s unborn baby girl from her womb and fleeing with the premature baby.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The fetus cut from her womb.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Julie Corey says she`s not guilty for the slaying.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: In just hours this woman goes to court. We are live at the courthouse as jury selection begins. I can`t imagine what the defense is going to be. First of all, to Rita Cosby, investigative journalist. Rita, it`s my understanding that their defense is going to be that she got the baby lawfully?
COSBY: That`s what they`re saying, but they`re not saying how they got the baby. What investigators are saying, though, is that the evidence is damning against Julie Corey. She was the last person to be seen with her friend, and then suddenly, her friend winds up dead, stuffed in a closet, strangled with an electrical cord, beat over the head with a hammer, and there is DNA evidence tying Julie Corey to that place.
GRACE: Let`s see some of the crime scene photos that the jury is set to see in just hours. We are waiting for court to kick off in this trial. Unleash the lawyers. Joining me, defense attorney Peter Odom from the Atlanta jurisdiction. Also joining me tonight, death penalty qualified prosecutor, Eleanor Odom.
First of all, to you, Eleanor. The argument is going to be that she got the baby lawfully. All right. The mom is found -- let`s see a shot. Here`s a home -- of the closet where mommy`s body was shoved. There you go. Hold on that shot. See that little 12-inch-wide closet? The jury is going to see this. They may even get a tour of the scene. That`s the closet where she shoved the mommy with her stomach cut wide open from pelvis to sternum.
E. ODOM: You know, Nancy, physical evidence doesn`t lie. Isn`t that what we always say? You`ve got the DNA evidence, which places the defendant right there. Plus you`ve got premeditation all over the place. This is something she planned. She said she was going to have a baby, and she did everything she could to get that baby, including this brutal, brutal murder.
GRACE: How do you get around the fact, Peter Odom, that for months she lied to her boyfriend saying she was pregnant?
P. ODOM: Look, they`ve got two choices here for a defense, and it`s a very tough case for the defense attorneys. They can go either with insanity, which frankly, I think might be the better outcome, and second -- or I didn`t do the killing, I just ended up with the baby. Now, either one is a risk for the defense. They`ve decided to go with, I ended up with the baby lawfully, but I didn`t do the killing.
GRACE: How do you end up with the baby lawfully? Alexis Weed is traveling to the courthouse. Alexis, what`s the defense?
WEED: Prosecutors have asked for phone records in this case, so she`s going to have to explain why she was at this location where the victim lived within hours of when she would have been killed.
GRACE: Alexis, you`re saying phone records are going to play an important role. Explain that.
WEED: So there is a text, according to the prosecution, from Corey to a friend saying, hey, I`m over at my friend`s house. I`m having some wine coolers, and this allegedly is at the time when she would have been killed, the victim would have been killed.
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa. Alexis. Everyone, Alexis Weed traveling to the courthouse as we wait for the jury selection to commence in this trial. You`re telling me the killer, the alleged killer -- there she is, right there -- with her baby about to give it a baby bottle. That`s her. She`s been pretending she`s pregnant for months, practically a year. And every time it would be the due date, Peter Odom, she would have to change it to her boyfriend. First the due date would be January. Oh, that was wrong. Then it`s February, then it`s March. Now, you have two children, am I wrong?
P. ODOM: You`re not wrong about that. I have two.
GRACE: Do you recall the pregnancy? I know it was a long time ago, but the due date didn`t change, did it?
P. ODOM: I don`t recall being pregnant, but I do recall the pregnancy.
GRACE: It`s like a sliding due date by about six months. That`s not how it works.
P. ODOM: That`s why I say they have to go with an insanity defense. This woman is insane.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: They`re not going with insanity because they can`t make out an insanity defense. That`s why. You know you`re hard up, Peter Odom, when you can`t make out or at least try to make an insanity defense.
P. ODOM: So you go with identity.
E. ODOM: Oh my God, Nancy --
(CROSSTALK)
E. ODOM: This case cries for it. As I said, you just see the premeditation. And then of course when she couldn`t fit it in with her current date, she had to keep sliding it out, so obviously they can`t go with insanity. There is no legal document, there is nothing that poor woman ever said that her baby should go to this defendant. She can`t back up any of her claims.
GRACE: And here you go. Her fingerprint is at the scene, but she says she was there rightfully at the scene visiting. I don`t know why you`re holding your finger up.
P. ODOM: I`m holding it up because I`m saying, wait a minute, Nancy, they were neighbors, they were friends. That fingerprint doesn`t mean anything. Unless it`s a bloody fingerprint, it doesn`t mean a thing. She could have been at that house lawfully at any time.
GRACE: So at the time of the killing -- Dr. Joy M. Carter is joining us, the chief forensic pathologist of Marion County. She`s the author of "I Speak for the Dead." Dr. Carter , isn`t it true that you can place the time of death?
CARTER: You can come pretty close to making that time of death by looking at the tissue. Yes.
GRACE: And Dr. Carter, apparently the killer who stabbed, bludgeoned and suffocated the mom and shoved her in this closet so she could rip her from pelvis to sternum and take the baby out, she stayed. She`s with the mother the night before, having a wine cooler at the time of death. How do they do that, Dr. Carter? How do they place that as the time of death when she places herself there in a text having a wine cooler?
CARTER: They`re going to look at the body, look for signs of hemorrhage and how fresh the tissue is under the microscope, and (inaudible), we`re able to come pretty close.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Eleanor and Peter. Back to you, Peter Odom.
P. ODOM: That sounds ominous, Nancy.
GRACE: She puts herself at the scene of the crime having a wine cooler at the time of death.
P. ODOM: I have never heard a forensic pathologist say they can come that close, unless they`re actually there at the crime scene when it happens.
GRACE: Within an hour.
P. ODOM: You can`t say it within an hour. There is no way. They might be able to do it within half a day.
GRACE: What about with the food? What about the ingredients of their snacks?
P. ODOM: No way. That`s just incorrect.
GRACE: Do you have an MD? I thought you just had a JD, and I`m investigating that.
P. ODOM: As a former homicide prosecutor that`s worked with dozens of forensic pathologists --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Back to Dr. Carter. Dr. Carter, isn`t it true that when you know the victim has eaten, let`s just say cheese and crackers with the wine cooler, you can see how far it`s digested and figure out the time they ate that?
CARTER: Well, you can look at it, but that digestion does vary from person to person. You can everything in totality. You can look at everything in the stomach, look at the of alcohol in the blood, look at the tissue, look at the injuries, and also examine the umbilical cord of the infant.
GRACE: Caryn Stark, psychologist joining me also, Rita Cosby and Alexis Weed, who is traveling to the courthouse as jury selection kicks off in the next couple of hours. Caryn Stark, who do you think they should put on the jury? I think it doesn`t matter. I don`t think, man, woman, gender matters? I don`t think race matters, I don`t think religion matters. When they see these crime scenes of this mother -- and you remember how happy I was when I was pregnant, although I was sick every day. They have pictures of this mother with her stomach cut wide open, and she took the baby out? What is that jury going to do, Caryn Stark?
STARK: I feel like it`s definitely going to not matter, just like you said, Nancy, because let`s look at this. This is not a person who can do an insanity defense. She knew what was happening. She said she was pregnant to people. She planned it. She called her boyfriend afterwards.
GRACE: She had a baby shower!
STARK: She had a baby shower and she called her boyfriend after this woman was dead to say that her water broke. So she was very cognizant of what she was doing.
GRACE: Everybody, we will keep you updated on that. As I stated, traveling to the courthouse to bring you the latest as the jury is selected.
When we come back, killer babysitter beats and suffocates baby Elijah to death. Sentence? $1 a year to the charity of her choice.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Killer babysitter gets frustrated when three-year-old baby Elijah won`t stop crying. So what does she do? Does she give him juice? Does she give him a warm bottle? Does she hold him or sing to him? Oh, no. She kicks the high chair out from under him in frustration and beats and suffocates the baby to death. Sentence? $1 a year to the charity of killer babysitter`s choice.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two-year-old Elijah Nealy was murdered by his young babysitter, 21-year-old Jessica Ferachio (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ll never forgive her. She doesn`t deserve forgiveness.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She pulled the chair from under him, he hits his head, and then she picks him up, banging his head along the way, and then put her hand over his mouth and nose, suffocating him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Basically smothered him with her hand.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Facing 50 years in prison, Judge G.H. Brown gave her five.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The judge made it seem like it was an accident.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Definitely expected more than that. So I really can`t say justice was served.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The light sentence was a surprise to much of the courtroom.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m shocked, I`m enraged, it`s a slap in the face.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A dollar to the charity of her choice once a year on the anniversary of the baby`s death? Brett Larson, investigative reporter, that makes my stomach hurt. One dollar plus he gave her five years, she`ll probably be out in two. Why bother?
LARSON: It is an outrage considering what she did. Now, the judge said, well, no matter what I do, it`s not going to bring Elijah back and I`m not going to make anybody happy, but five years and a dollar?
GRACE: It certainly did not make me happy. And I can tell you who else he didn`t make happy, Brett Larson, Elijah`s father, who is with us tonight, Mike Nealy is with us tonight. Mr. Nealy, thank you for being with us.
MIKE NEALY: You`re welcome, Nancy.
GRACE: Mr. Nealy, when did you learn that Elijah had been hurt?
NEALY: I learned a few hours after it happened. I was at work that day and couldn`t get reached in time. And I found out and had a long trip home to find him dead in the emergency room.
GRACE: And when you last saw him, he was perfectly fine.
NEALY: Yes, he was.
GRACE: When did you find out what exactly had happened to Elijah?
NEALY: We didn`t find out what exactly happened until five months after he had died.
GRACE: Why?
NEALY: That`s when the woman that did it finally confessed to the police the true story what happened that day after lying for the last five months.
GRACE: What did she say for five months?
NEALY: From the day it happened, we -- she consistently said that he had slipped and fell in the bathtub and hit his head.
GRACE: But at the outset, I`m sure the doctors could see that he had been suffocated.
NEALY: I can`t really speak on that. At first it was -- that was the only story they had. She was the only witness, and it took a while for the medical examiner to do their report.
GRACE: With me is Mike Nealy. This is baby Elijah`s father. Mr. Nealy, I`m a crime victim, too, but I cannot even imagine the suffering of losing your child. What I went through was nothing compared to what you`ve gone through.
When the judge, who has done this before, this is not the first time that he has overruled, for instance, another sentence, when you learned the judge was ordering her to five years, a five year sentence, and you`ll get out in about two years, why even bother? Plus a dollar a year to the charity of her choice? When you heard that, what went through your body and your mind?
NEALY: To tell you the truth, when it happened in the courtroom, I was in shock. I really -- I couldn`t comprehend it at the time. Slowly, during that day, it sunk in what he had done to us.
GRACE: I mean, this girl can get out in about two years or less.
NEALY: That`s true. I mean, I had no control over it.
GRACE: I`m just -- I can`t even take it in. What she did to him was so brutal. While you`re at work trying to support the child, this happens. To Brett Larson, investigative reporter, it`s not the first time this judge, this particular judge, has done this.
LARSON: Yes, he`s gone kind of lenient here, and his excuse in the courtroom was, you know, as we mentioned was just, well, nothing I do is going to make everybody happy, but the outrage in the courtroom was palpable when he said this. There were gasps in the courtroom from people in there that had gathered to see the outcome of this. It`s atrocious, Nancy.
GRACE: Michael Christian, I read about several occasions when this same judge has done the same thing. The honorable J. Howe Brown, Prince William County.
CHRISTIAN: That`s right, Nancy, there was one occasion in a malicious wounding case where a jury voted to give a defendant five years in prison, but Judge Brown overruled that and instead gave the defendant only two years. There was another case where he gave a defendant in a fatal crash with alcohol and marijuana involved, he gave him a suspended eight years of a ten-year sentence, even though it was the guy`s second offense, his second crash. So he has been known to do this kind of thing before.
GRACE: Okay. Prince William County, you`re on notice. Honorable J. Howe Brown needs to be removed.
When we come back, everyone, after he shoots his 11-year-old girl to death, he wants a get out of jail free pass, he claims, to go to the funeral.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: With me, Mike Nealy, the father of baby Elijah. Mike Nealy, if you could speak to your son and/or to the judge right now, what would you say?
NEALY: If I could speak to the judge right now, I`d like him to tell me to my face what he was thinking, how in the world he could think that this is a just punishment for her, and this thing, this woman did to my son. And to hear things from him and the defense attorneys saying this was an accident, this was no accident. This woman deliberately did what she did. She could have stopped at any moment. There was no accident involved. So five years in jail, a dollar a year for the rest of her life, he might as well just spit in my face. I don`t know. It doesn`t make any sense to me. I`d like an explanation from him is what I`d like right now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: He shoots and kills his 11-year-old little girl as she hides in fear. He gets arrested. But then he throws a fit for a get out of jail free pass so he can go to the funeral, and mommy stands behind him? Melissa Neeley, with WLW, what happened?
MELISSA NEELEY, WLW: What was happening was a slumber party starting off the evening with Shanti Lanza (ph) and her little friends. They were at home having a good time, and her father, DeAndre Kelly (ph), came home with a gun and got in an argument with her mother. The mother kicked him out. He went out and got drunk, and then came back and started a commotion. Came in, they continued to fight. And he shot his gun off, killing his little 11-year-old girl.
GRACE: So what I don`t understand, Eleanor Odom -- why should he -- thank you, Melissa, joining me from Cincinnati. Why should he get a free get out of jail free pass and why is mommy supporting this?
E. ODOM: He shouldn`t get a free get out of jail pass at all. He should be in jail and should have no reason to believe. Now the mom could be supporting him for several reasons. Perhaps he`s an abusive spouse to her, and has done violence to her before, and therefore she`s scared because of the cycle of domestic violence.
GRACE: Peter?
P. ODOM: Nancy, he never intended for this to happen. This was an accident. He never meant to kill that girl, and he should be able to go to her funeral. And that`s why the mother is supporting him.
GRACE: Caryn Stark, what about it?
STARK: Nancy, he doesn`t deserve to be there. He was there earlier. She made him leave. This woman sounds like she`s an abused woman, and that`s why she wants him to go to the funeral. It`s not acceptable.
GRACE: All I know is the 11-year-old little girl is dead. He showed up before, drunk, waving a gun. The mom made him leave because she was afraid. He came back, shoots the girl. You know what? A jail cell is the right place for him.
Everyone, let`s stop and remember American hero, Army Staff Sergeant Edwin Rivera, 28, Waterford, Connecticut. Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Combat Infantryman Badge. Loved helping others. Parents, Sue Ferino (ph) and Gladys (ph). Two sisters, widow Ysenia (ph), sons Rolando (ph) and Lorenzo (ph). Edwin Rivera, American hero.
Drew up next, everyone. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.
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