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Nancy Grace

Girls` Night Out Turns Violent; Boy Kills Sister Over Laundry; Sperm Donor Ordered to Pay Child Support

Aired January 27, 2014 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Off the top, Santa Ana, California. A girls` night out at a local bar turns deadly when 23-year- old Kimmy (ph) Pham accidentally steps into the group of women snapping photos and selfies. Bombshell tonight. The women go ballistic, and the party turns crime scene when 23-year-old Kimmy beaten to death by the other women -- over a photo bomb?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police looking to talk with this person of interest in the beating death of 23-year-old Kim Pham.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Verbal altercation erupted into a physical altercation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Aspiring TV host brutally killed in a brawl outside a nightclub. The alleged reason? An accidental photo bomb!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a shock.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m shocked.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s very tragic.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And live, Oakland, suburbs. A boy shoots own his sister to death over dirty laundry?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The brother apparently upset that his sister put too much bleach on his clothes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They were just brother and sister just arguing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That argument turned to gunfire. He says his 14- year-old son shot...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And tonight, he answers a Craigslist ad to be a sperm donor, a sperm donor to a same-sex couple, two ladies, even signing away his parental rights once he did the deed. But now the sperm donor, just a guy trying to lend a helping hand, is ordered to pay thousands in child support!

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAM MAROTTA, SPERM DONOR: I was just a donor, and Angie (ph) and Jennifer (ph) are the parents.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: William Marotta donated sperm to a lesbian couple, and he is now being told by the state to pay child support for the child that was born.

MAROTTA: We had a contract that said I`m not going to be a part of it. The child is theirs, not mine. They`re raising her, not me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And tonight, a female neighbor befriends an eight-months- pregnant Worcester woman, tricks her way into Mommy`s home and murders the mother-to-be, physically cutting the baby out of Mommy`s tummy, then goes on to pose as a radiant new mother. The murder trial kicks off, and we are live at the courthouse.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Prosecutors told jurors after allegedly killing the victim, Darlene Hayes, (ph) Corey (ph) was taking the baby to friends, asking them if the baby looked more like her or her boyfriend, this as Darlene`s body lay decomposing in her bedroom closet with an electrical cord still wrapped twice around her neck.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And a serial killer rapes and murders at least 21 little boys, that we know of. Up for parole? Hello? A serial killer set to walk free? Tonight, the sole survivor joins us live.

Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.

Bombshell tonight. Off the top, Santa Ana, California, a girls` night out at a local bar turns deadly when a 23-year-old girl, Kim Pham, accidentally steps into the girl`s night out. All the women are out in front. They`re taking selfies, cell phone photos of each other. She steps in front by accident, looks at the camera. The women go ballistic and the party turns crime scene when 23-year-old Kimmy Pham beaten to death -- over a photo bomb? That`s the defense? She photo-bombed my selfie?

Look at this girl, 23 years old with her life ahead of her. She literally was at the wrong place at the wrong time.

Out to Rita Cosby, investigative journalist. Rita, I`ve heard a lot, but murder over a photo bomb, a photo bomb murder of this girl, women who are all out together? It`s like a pack of wild animals? The gang mentality sets in, and one of them leading the pack beats the girl to death?

RITA COSBY, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: It`s an incredible story, and how heartbreaking. Kimmy Pham is standing in line, Nancy, in a nightclub to go in. Everyone`s taking pictures, as you`re talking about. She accidentally bumps into a crowd where they were taking pictures, three women, two men.

And then they start beating on her. All of this is captured on cell phone video. It was so horrific, Nancy, at one point, they believe 50 people were standing around as Kimmy was knocked unconscious.

GRACE: Watching her get beaten to death, people were just standing there? And I know, Rita, everybody had cell phones because they were all taking cell phone photos, actually catching some of the murder on cell phone video. Nobody bothers to call 911? You just saw a video of the crime scene off Facebook.

You know, to think -- out to you, Clark Goldband -- that a group of women who were out to have a good time -- I don`t know what they were celebrating, but it was a girls` night out -- and they turn on this girl like vicious animals?

CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Nancy, here`s the thing. We are learning from reports that, in fact, the victim did not even want to go out! She wanted people to come to her house and just kind of hang out and take it easy, but she was convinced to go out.

And you see behind me the end result here. Law enforcement scouring the crime scene for details, and I can tell you at this hour law enforcement, Nancy, now they reportedly have five separate cell phones in custody.

Here is footage from one of those phones. You see it behind me. You can see it right there on your screen, a brawl taking place right on the street, that cell phone video about nine seconds. What clues does it hold?

GRACE: You know, that could end up being state`s exhibit number 1.

Rita, what do we know? I know that the woman that`s arrested, I believe she`s what, 25 or 27, and she`s got a 5-year-old little boy? She`s a mother and she`s out at a bar? Hey, not judging. I`m all right with that. But beating another woman to death because she photo-bombed you?

COSBY: It`s incredible, and also...

GRACE: And she`s got a 5-year-old boy at home?

COSBY: She does.

GRACE: What do you tell him, Mommy nutted up and beat somebody to death last night?

COSBY: It`s unbelievable. And the other thing, too, Nancy, she got caught. First she said that she wasn`t really there. Then they actually found her cell phone at the scene, which captured some of the beating.

GRACE: Ouch. Unleash the lawyers. Joining me tonight, Judge Alex Ferrer, former circuit judge, host of "Judge Alex." With me, Areva Martin, defense attorney out of LA, Patrick McDonough, defense attorney joining me out of Atlanta.

All right, Judge Alex, the defense, You photo-bombed my selfie?

ALEX FERRER, HOST, "JUDGE ALEX": No. That won`t fly anywhere in the country. I think the most likely defense I guess that we`re going to hear is self-defense. That`s...

GRACE: Whoa!

FERRER: That`s what we usually hear.

GRACE: Self-defense of what?

FERRER: That`s what we usually hear.

GRACE: OK. All right.

FERRER: The witnesses who come forward will typically try to claim that they were attacked and they were defending themselves because what else are they going to say...

GRACE: OK.

FERRER: ... we beat somebody...

GRACE: Hold on.

FERRER: ... because they were in my picture?

GRACE: I hope you`re right, Alex. I hope, Judge Alex, that that`s the defense because Patrick McDonough, I see you trying to raise your hand over there. I hope that they say that Kimmy Pham, 23 years old, she`s about 4-9 and she weighs about what, 87 pounds soaking wet -- I hope they claim that they were under a vicious attack by Kimmy Pham.

PATRICK MCDONOUGH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, that`s not going to be the defense. The defense here is going to be, do they have the right person? That videotape may be defense exhibit number 1. It appears that the real evidence shows that the first person they arrested actually might have received the first blow from the victim and fell to the side, while someone else came in and injected the fatal blow with their foot. So this video evidence is what`s going to actually exonerate these people that are in jail right now.

GRACE: Well, that`s funny because the cops saw all that video evidence before they arrested a 25-year-old mother of a 5-year-old little boy. And out to you, Areva...

MCDONOUGH: (INAUDIBLE) they didn`t see all those five videos. Those were recently found. They had one video when they made the arrest and they arrested somebody else. So they`re just now are finding this videotaped evidence. There`s a lot of witnesses that are not cooperating.

GRACE: Areva, the cops looked...

AREVA MARTIN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, you know...

GRACE: ... at the video evidence. I`ve looked at the video evidence. We`re going to look at it again. This girl, Kimmy Pham, she`s 23 years old, in school, great student -- she didn`t even want to go out that night, wanted everybody to come to her place. She happens to get in the middle of a pack of women who had just gone into a gang mentality and beat the girl to death. They don`t have the wrong person. It`s on video!

MARTIN: I just think, Nancy, this is such a tragic case, but we don`t have the whole story. There are so many witnesses...

GRACE: Put her up!

MARTIN: ... that are refusing to cooperate...

GRACE: Areva!

MARTIN: ... with the police and the lawyer...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: ... been on this program where you don`t say they don`t have the whole story?

MARTIN: Nancy -- Nancy, the lawyers keep telling us...

GRACE: What?

MARTIN: ... there`s more to this story. And I know it`s tragic, but we`re going to hear that this woman may have thrown the first blow herself and that the woman that`s in custody may not be the person that actually kicked Kimmy...

GRACE: OK...

MARTIN: ... and caused her to die.

GRACE: You know what?

MARTIN: We have to wait until all the evidence is in.

GRACE: I disagree with you, but...

(CROSSTALK)

MARTIN: That`s OK, Nancy, but we have to get the whole story.

GRACE: Let`s just say that Kimmy threw a punch, all right? But under the law of self-defense, if I punch -- where`s Clark Goldband? If I punch you, Clark, you don`t have a right to throw me down on the sidewalk and brutally kick and beat me to death. That`s not the way self-defense works. Plus, the evidence so far shows Kimmy Pham did not throw the first punch.

GOLDBAND: Well, Nancy, in so many of these cases we cover, you have told us and we have learned that you have to equate equal force. Now, there`s an attorney and possibly one witness who has come forward and saying that the victim may have thrown the first punch.

But be that as it may, when you take a look at this cell phone video, there is a brutal beating taking place. And perhaps most disturbing, when you take a look at this cell phone video right behind me, if you see this mob of people -- and there is someone -- look, they`re crawling forward with their cell phones, Nancy, trying to get good footage of this brawl! No one is helping!

GRACE: And in the end, apparently, Tim Gallagher -- Dr. Gallagher, medical examiner, forensic pathologist joining me out of Daytona Beach. Dr. Gallagher, she was actually trying to crawl away while these women continued to beat her to death. Dr. Gallagher, she died from blunt force trauma to the head. What does that mean?

DR. TIM GALLAGHER, MEDICAL EXAMINER, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST (via telephone): Nancy, good to be here. Blunt force trauma to the head -- a blunt force injury, as the name suggests, is injury done to the body by a blunt object, a blunt object such as a fist, a shoe, a bat, things of that nature, Nancy.

GRACE: They were kicking her, Dr. Gallagher.

Out to you, Ramani Duravasula, clinical psychologist. Dr. Ramani, you know, when I was prosecuting, I often heard about young boys and gang mentality, group mentality, and they would do things as part of a group they never would have done on their own.

My harsh reality that I had to deal with is that they did do it together as a group, and then I had to clean it up in court and prosecute it. But I rarely, rarely think of a group of women -- they`re all working all day. They go out. They agree to have a girls` night out, and they end up ganging up on a 23-year-old girl, Kimmy Pham, who weighs about 90 pounds soaking wet, and beat her and kick her to death?

I mean, what came over them? The thought that somebody like you, well respected, a businessperson, would pull her foot back in a high heel or a boot and kick this girl in the head, killing her because she photo-bombed their selfies?

RAMANI DURAVASULA, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: You nailed it, Nancy, when you said it`s a mob mentality. And that doesn`t matter, regardless of gender. Boys can do it, and girls can do it, too. And the fact is, is that it`s like putting gas on a fire. And then you`ve got young people who have poor judgment who may have been drinking. We don`t know that. And then you`ve got something that just escalates. And in some ways, it becomes almost like a strange matter of pride, or perhaps they were trying to defend their position.

GRACE: Well, Dr. Ramani, let me remind you, as I have on many occasions, voluntary intoxication or use of drugs -- voluntary intoxication is not a defense under the law or everybody in the jailhouse today would say it was a big drunk, OK? I was drunk. So bottom line, murder over a photo bomb of this 23-year-old girl at the hands of other women.

When we come back, a boy shoots his own sister to death over dirty laundry?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: And now live to the Oakland suburbs. A boy shoots his own sister to death over dirty laundry?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They was good kids. They was just brother and sister just arguing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A brother and sister were fighting, the brother apparently upset that his sister put too much bleach on his clothes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police are now searching for the 14-year-old brother, as are his family.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Incredible. Incredible. This boy had never been in trouble before, had always gotten along with his sister. What went wrong?

To Vivian Ho, reporter with "The San Francisco Chronicle" -- shoots his own sister dead because she put bleach in the dirty laundry?

VIVIAN HO, "SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE" (via telephone): It`s a really, really tragic story right now, Nancy. You know, we`re not quite sure what`s going on right now because the 14-year-old is still missing. But relatives have said that they always had a very typical brother and sister relationship. They`d squabble sometimes, they`d bicker sometimes, but they were still brother and sister.

GRACE: Everyone, we are reporting out of the Oakland suburbs. A young boy shoots his own sister to death over dirty laundry. He had never exhibited any type of violent behavior before ever. He and his sister had always gotten along. Now she is dead and this 14-year-old kid is on the run.

Justin Freiman, what more can you tell me?

JUSTIN FREIMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Nancy, police are very concerned because they`re worried that he`s armed and dangerous. Surveillance video does show him leaving the building with a gun.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Well, according to police, he shoots his own sister dead over dirty laundry. He`s only 14. And tonight, he`s on the run.

Unleash the lawyers, Judge Alex Ferrer, former circuit judge, host of "Judge Alex." Also with me, Areva Martin, defense attorney out of LA, and Patrick McDonough, defense attorney in Atlanta.

First to you, Judge Alex. They`re going to want to try him as an adult because this is a, quote, "designated felony," one of the seven deadly sins, as they call it under the code, those being -- let`s see -- murder, rape, aggravated sodomy, armed robbery -- let`s see what else there is -- arson, and also when anything has to do with a bank robbery. So it`s one of the seven deadlies.

Typically, he would be bound over and treated as an adult. But I think it`s going to turn on the facts, Judge Alex.

FERRER: Well, the prosecution is always in a difficult position in cases like this because it is a 14-year-old, and nobody wants to send a 14- year-old to prison for life. But then what do you do with a 14-year-old or an 11-year-old or a 12-year-old who murders? If you treat them in the juvenile system, typically, the juvenile system lets them go at 21, an age that we all know is generally the most violent age for offenders. So they`re kind of...

GRACE: Well, especially once they`ve been behind bars for seven years.

FERRER: It certainly doesn`t improve them as a person.

GRACE: (INAUDIBLE) he stays behind bars in juvie jail until 21. OK, jump in, Patrick.

MCDONOUGH: Yes, but Nancy, let`s not -- let`s not jump the gun here. We don`t know what happened. This allegation they had a fight over laundry -- this could have been an accident. I mean, he could have been showing off and the gun had accidentally gone -- accidentally gone off, and then he just got scared that people would rush to judgment -- not that anyone...

GRACE: Areva...

MCDONOUGH: ... would ever do that on this show...

GRACE: ... it seems to me...

MCDONOUGH: ... but people do rush to judgment.

GRACE: Areva, it seems to me that if it had been an accident, why would he run? I want it to be an accident.

MARTIN: He`s 14, Nancy!

GRACE: I don`t want to think that a little kid would shoot his sister over dirty laundry, but that`s what police are saying.

MCDONOUGH: He`s 14 years old. He`s a kid. It`s natural that he would be afraid and run. It`s not surprising to me that he`s on the run. His grandmother, his father, his entire family is appealing to him, and he hasn`t come forward. This is a scared little kid. This is not a violent kid. This isn`t a kid with a criminal background or a history of violence. I think this kid needs help. He`s in crisis. And as a community, we need to find him and get him the help that he needs.

GRACE: Well, let me give information to do just that.

(CROSSTALK)

MARTIN: ... the family.

GRACE: The boy is Mario Toliver. He`s 14 years old. He is 5 feet, slender, brown eyes, last seen with a black hooded sweatshirt. There`s a $10,000 reward -- 510-777-8572. And to all the defense lawyers tonight, I hope you`re right that it was an accident.

When we come back: He simply answers a Craigslist ad to be a sperm donor. He goes and checks out the couple, he sees they`ve got a wonderful home, they`ll be loving parents. It`s a same-sex couple, two ladies. They want to have a child, so he`s a sperm donor.

But now, get this. The sperm donor is ordered to pay thousands in child support.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: This guy answers a Craigslist ad to be a sperm donor. He and his wife even go to the home to make sure that this child is going to have a loving home. He finds a beautiful home, very well kept, two ladies. It`s a same-sex couple. They want to have a baby. They even do paperwork, a contract, where he signs away his parental rights, once he did the deed, that he would not try to see the child, he wouldn`t make a claim on the child, and he didn`t want a claim made on him -- a sperm donor.

But now the sperm donor has been ordered to pay thousands in child support.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAM MAROTTA, SPERM DONOR: I donated genetic material, and that was it for me. You know, I`m not being held to be a parent. I`m not raising a child. I wasn`t expected to be paying for child support.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: OK, this throws into jeopardy all the women and men who use artificial insemination or sperm donors all across this country. This sperm donor is being ordered, has been ordered by a judge, to pay child support. The only connection he has to the child is he was a sperm donor at the behest of these two women he thought he was helping out. He just answered a Craigslist ad. That`s it.

Well, joining me right now is William Marotta, the sperm donor. And also with me, Ben Swinnen, his lawyer. Gentlemen, thank you for being with us.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, Nancy.

GRACE: You know what? Ever since I heard about you, I have been just -- I flipped. I could not believe, number one, that you went to the trouble -- most sperm donors would never do this -- to go to the home and make sure your actions would result in a child having a loving home.

You know, in my line of business, Mr. Marotta, all I see are people abusing children, beating them, molesting them, starving them, hurting them. You were so worried about this, you go to the home, you check out the ladies, you interview them and talk to them before you agree to be the sperm donor. And then you even sign a legal document saying, I`m not responsible, and I`m not going to make a claim on this child.

What happened? How did everything get turned so bass-ackward, Mr. Marotta?

MAROTTA: My understanding is that where the big hitch came from was the fact that the birth mother applied for financial aid or assistance from the state of Kansas. From that point is where it all went wrong, at least for me.

GRACE: And the other thing, Mr. Marotta, is apparently one of the ladies got very, very ill, and had to quit work, and she applied for a financial aid from the government to help support the baby. And then everything went down the tubes right then. Mr. Marotta, do you remember the day you answered the Craigslist ad?

MAROTTA: I don`t remember the date or the day, that kind of thing, the specific details like that, no, I don`t.

GRACE: What do you remember about answering the ad and going to the home and checking out the home and deciding that you would, in fact, be a sperm donor?

MAROTTA: Basically, you covered the points. I saw an ad asking for sperm donor. Piqued my interest, looked into it. E-mailed the women. And at a later point in time, my wife and I interviewed them as well as they interviewed us. And then a short time after that, we signed what we thought would be a document, basically, a contract, that would help keep everything cleared up and straightforward and made it pretty clear what was going to happen and what was going to work. But apparently, the courts don`t even consider this as a contract. It`s not even mentioned anywhere in the findings, pretty much.

GRACE: Well, Mr. Swinnen, with me is a lawyer out of Topeka, Ben Swinnen, has got a very good reputation. Mr. Swinnen, isn`t it true that Kansas is operating under statutes that originated in 1973? Most of the rest of the country dealing with, for instance, IVF, sperm donors and all that reproductive law had statutes that were enacted around 2002 and 2003. I mean, it`s my understanding, Ben, that the judge is claiming your client`s agreement didn`t hold water because a doctor was not involved in the artificial insemination, a doctor didn`t do it. I guess he just used a hypodermic needle or syringe or turkey baster and she got pregnant. And they are using the legal loophole that a doctor wasn`t present under the statute. So therefore, your client has got to pay thousands of dollars?

BEN SWINNEN, ATTORNEY: That`s the claim of the state.

GRACE: That`s ridiculous.

SWINNEN: And the decision of the court. I still disagree with the decision of the court. I think the court overextended the interpretation of that statute.

GRACE: Not only that, Ben, it`s unequal protection under the law. Because people that can`t afford to include a doctor are protected from this situation, while your client, who didn`t use a doctor, is not protected. And that is very simply treating people differently under the law. And that is not okay.

So back to you, William Marotta. When did you find out that the court wants you to pay thousands of dollars in child support? Because, let me just put it out there, you masturbated several years ago, and you were a sperm donor. And now you got a bill for thousands.

MAROTTA: I received a letter in the mail from the Department of Child Services here in the state of Kansas, and then made contact once via a phone call, and that`s how I found out that they were expecting child support.

GRACE: And isn`t it true, Mr. Marotta -- with me is the actual sperm donor at the center of this controversy. Isn`t it true that the two ladies, they`re on your side? They don`t want you to have to pay this child support.

MAROTTA: Yes, that is correct.

GRACE: You know, it`s just amazing to me, Ben Swinnen, that this judge cannot see the problem with that statute. That statute was enacted, Judge Mary Mattivi, that statute was enacted long before the science exists as it does today where basically anybody can get pregnant. We always read about celebrities doing it, Ben Swinnen, getting pregnant by a sperm donor, and there is no doctor present. They grab a turkey baster and do the deed and then they have a baby shower. That`s how that goes down.

SWINNEN: That`s how it goes. Hopefully they don`t live in Kansas.

GRACE: Are you going to appeal, William Marotta?

SWINNEN: Yes, we are.

GRACE: And Mr. Marotta, is it true that one time by chance you ran into your child?

MAROTTA: I ran into Angie and Jennifer`s daughter once at a local county fair.

GRACE: And what were your feelings when you ran into her? Were you glad that you did that? When you saw her? Weren`t you glad that you helped them and helped them bring this beautiful child into the world?

MAROTTA: Actually, it was more of a matter of just, oh, hi, how are you, and the kind of thoughts like that --

GRACE: I`m apparently more emotional than you are when it comes to children, and maybe that`s as it should be, but I can tell you one thing, Mr. Marotta, I`m on your side. We`ll be following the case. Marotta and Swinnen, thank you for being with us.

When we come back, a female neighbor befriends an eight-month pregnant woman, murders the mother-to-be, cuts the baby, guts the mom from pelvis to sternum and takes the baby out of her stomach. She goes home with the baby posing as a radiant new mom, even has a baby shower. Goes around asking, do you think the baby looks like me? No, it looks like the dead lady in the closet, that`s who it looks like. We are live at the courthouse as the trial kicks off.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: A female neighbor befriends an eight-month pregnant Worcester woman, tricks her way into the mother`s home, and murders the mother-to-be, beating her, suffocating her, physically cutting the baby out of the mother`s tummy, gutting her like a deer during hunting season from pelvis up to sternum. Then she takes the baby out of mommy`s tummy and stuffs mommy in a closet, leaving her bleeding to death. She then poses as a radiant new mother, even having a baby shower, going around going, do you think the baby looks like me or my husband? Well, today, the murder trial kicks off.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The trial has begun in the case of a woman accused of killing a pregnant acquaintance and cutting the unborn baby out of her stomach.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 35-year-old Julie Corey of Worcester, the police believe the child is the daughter of Darlene Haines, the Worcester mother of three other girls whose body was found in the closet of her apartment. She was eight months pregnant. The baby was cut from her womb.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The prosecutor told jurors about the alleged killer, Julie Corey`s efforts, to convince family and friends she was pregnant when she wasn`t. Corey`s defense team then goes on the attack, blaming police for overlooking other suspects who are really the ones responsible for Darlene`s death, and saying Corey legally came into the possession of the baby. But who will the jury believe?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are live at the courthouse. Joining me, Alexis Weed. Alexis, I want to hear the very latest. What`s happened today in the trial?

ALEXIS WEED, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Nancy, today the defense came out blazing, guns blazing in their opening statement. They`re saying that not only can prosecutors not prove that there is a murder weapon that exists, but they say that the prosecutors can`t even put Julie Corey at that scene where Haines was murdered. They`re saying they just don`t have enough evidence to make this case, and they`re pointing the finger at a host of other people who have come in and out of that apartment, according to the defense.

GRACE: Well, isn`t it true, Alexis Weed, that Julie Corey, the woman on trial for cutting mommy`s tummy open, taking the baby and leaving mommy dead, isn`t it true that she places herself there that night by texting people saying she`s there having a wine cooler?

WEED: Well, that`s what we`re expecting to see from the prosecution. In some of their preliminary documents that they filed, they have said that they have phone records putting Julie Corey there, sending some text messages saying she`s just enjoying an evening with friends, yes. So that`s what we`re expecting to see from the prosecution.

GRACE: And there`s a fingerprint, is there not, there`s a fingerprint of Julie Corey`s in the home on one of the wine coolers or on a glass?

WEED: Yes, it`s on a bottle that was found inside the apartment, and it was a bottle that we believe was purchased by the victim that same evening, so the fingerprint basically ends up on this bottle that is found in the home with her body. So that`s how prosecutors, we`re expecting, are going to place Corey at the scene pretty late in the evening on Thursday when Haines was murdered.

GRACE: Alexis, what have we learned? Because I learned from the courtroom that she actually gets the baby and is taking it around going, do you think she looks like me or my husband?

WEED: Right. So once she has this baby, and Nancy, this is the next day that she`s parading around this child to friends, to family, going up to New Hampshire with the baby to see more family. But she`s asking friends, and we heard some testimony today from one of the friends who said, yes, she was asking whether or not people thought that she looked like her boyfriend or if the baby looked more like her.

GRACE: Okay, I`m voting for she looks like the dead woman in the closet, but that`s just me.

WEED: Right.

GRACE: OK. Here`s my next question. How is she acting in court? And has the jury seen any of the crime scene photos before, because this mother was gutted like an animal at hunting season. It was awful.

WEED: Nancy, I will tell you, I`ve seen a lot of crime scene photos. These are very difficult to look at. The jurors did take a look, a hard look at them. They paid attention, and Julie Corey, she sat there, again pretty quiet. She took a lot of notes today. But while these photos were shown, she just sat pretty plain-faced, staring up. She definitely looked at them, and I will tell you, they are horrific, very difficult to look at, showing the victim`s abdomen, her lower intestines protruding from her abdomen. Really, really tough to see.

GRACE: And what about the boyfriend? Now, I do not believe he had a hand in the murder, but he didn`t find it odd that her due date kept changing? She`s like, oh, my due date is in June. Oops it`s June now. I meant July. Did I say June? Then it would be August, or whatever the month was. It changed like four or five times, and then suddenly she comes home with a baby.

WEED: Right. So we know that in some police interviews that Rodriguez, the boyfriend after they found the body, we know he said, yes, he found that very peculiar, that he didn`t believe her. Nancy, he went so far as to buy a monitor to try to hear the baby in utero. He said he never heard anything when he used that monitor. That`s what we are expecting him to testify, though he hasn`t been up on the stand yet.

GRACE: So is he going to take the stand for the state or the defense?

WEED: For the state, we believe.

GRACE: What does she do in court? Does she look around, look like she`s remorseful at all? They`re actually claiming she got the baby by legal means? What legal means? I mean, the mom is dead in the closet. How can you get the baby by legal means? What`s their argument, Alexis?

WEED: We don`t know yet, and it`s going to be fascinating to see how the defense tries to connect those dots. How does she end up with this baby the very next morning? Not to mention the host of lies she told to friends, to family about being in the hospital, about being pregnant. She wasn`t pregnant, and as you know, the DNA shows this baby belonged to the victim, Haines.

GRACE: With me right now, special guest, joining us out of Worcester, Jeff Gold. He has been in the courtroom today. Jeff Gold, a question. The defense is suggesting that the police are the problem, that they did not do a good job investigating. Could you explain that to me?

GOLD: Well, first of all, there were a lot of things that weren`t investigated. That`s the defense attorney`s favorite tricks to say there were things that weren`t investigated. But they actually pointed to three individuals that could have been there, that could have done something. One of them was Tito Rodriguez, who they say is a batterer and attempted and threatened to kill his prior girlfriend. Another is a fellow named John Davido (ph), who they -- someone saw climbing into the window in this period of time between three days between the (inaudible) and the body being found. And another one, Timothy Tripp (ph), who was in the apartment before the body was found. None of this was investigated. There were cigarettes of one individual not investigated. There was a number of things not investigated.

When you put in the delay of time between finding the body, the fact that the only thing there is a fingerprint, and the fingerprint is on a moveable object. It`s not like a refrigerator, or a wall or a (inaudible). It`s on a bottle that could have been moved around. You have the defense actually giving some reasonable scenarios of people that should have been looked at, weren`t looked at.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: I hear what you`re saying, but Rita Cosby, investigative journalist, do we care probatively or evidentiarily, who has been in and out of the house? Because none of them were pretending to be pregnant and changing their due dates, none of them were over in the home the night of the murder, having a wine cooler. None of them ended up with the baby, pretending the baby is theirs immediately in the hours after mommy is murdered, she`s got the baby. All right? So who cares if somebody came over and had a cigarette. You know, that`s not a felony, last I looked.

COSBY: No, you`re right. Although of course the defense is going to try anything they can. But what is also damning, I think, against Julie Corey are these calls that she made. First, she not only -- by the way, today, there were also witnesses who also place her at the scene a few hours before. But she told people, I`m pregnant, and then soon after said, hey, I just happened to have a baby girl. No proof in any hospital she had a baby.

GRACE: Alexis Weed, thank you for being with us at the courthouse. When we come back, a serial killer rapes and murders at least 21 little boys. And now his accomplice up for parole? He`s walking free? Tonight, the sole survivor joins us live.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: A serial killer rapes and murders at least 21 little boys that we know of. And now a parole hearing? Tonight, the sole survivor is joining me live. With me David McVicker. Mr. McVicker, thank you so much for being with us.

DAVID MCVICKER, SOLE SURVIVOR: Thank you for having me.

GRACE: Mr. McVicker, you were such a young kid when you were attacked. And I know you don`t want to be haunted by the past, but the fact that the parole hearing is looming, please tell our audience what you endured.

MCVICKER: Well, I was kidnapped and raped when I was 14 years old by William Bonin. He turned out to be one of the freeway killers. He killed 21 kids, he and a group of his friends. And I`ve kind of taken it on myself to make sure that justice is served and they all stay in jail or executed or just not on the streets to go and do it again.

GRACE: It is just amazing to me that they would even consider letting him out, but it`s not just your word. A psychologist has gone and interviewed him and spoken to him and feels very strongly he is a threat, and not only that, isn`t it true, Mr. McVicker, that he`s actually threatened to kill you as soon as he gets out?

MCVICKER: Well, yes, not only that, he`s threatened to kill me -- I`ve had three phone calls that I know of coming out of prison in the past week, that he was threatening to have me killed by tomorrow. The thing that`s really scary about that is they actually went to my house.

GRACE: Mr. McVicker, I have read your file. It`s my understanding you were taken out into a field as a young boy and were raped brutally and you were strangled with a t-shirt.

MCVICKER: Right.

GRACE: And a pipe. I don`t understand that. A t-shirt and a pipe.

MCVICKER: He had a -- actually, it was a crowbar, a tire iron. He stuck it through the back of the sleeves of my t-shirt and was spinning it around choking me while he was raping me. What I thought was my last breath, I said God help, and he just stopped. That was the last time that he showed remorse.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Freeway killers raped and murdered at least 21 little boys. That we know of. Tonight, the sole survivor speaks out as the parole hearing looms. David McVicker is joining us. David, you were attacked when you were a little boy. You were raped and you were nearly killed. For some reason as you were being strangled to death, you prayed out to God, and this one time he quit and you lived. And it was after that that you started reading about the killings. How did that happen?

MCVICKER: Well, I was told that he was in jail for 15 to life. And I think it was actually something different, but he ended up in a Tuskadero (ph) state prison, and he was only there for 18 months. And I was trying to read the newspapers every day, not for that, but just to make myself better. Because I lost my education and I was trying to learn how to read. So anyway, I kept reading the newspapers, and every time I would read these stories about these kids coming up dead, it was like just in my stomach. I could just feel this. I knew what they went through. And then after a year of that, it was just kind of overwhelming to me. I finally called the sheriff`s department and said he`s supposed to be locked up, but he`s not. I didn`t know. They needed to find out where he was. And as it was, he was killing everybody.

GRACE: If we want to get involved, tell me a website to go to so we can stop this parole.

MCVICKER: I have a website called rapedagain.com. On there there are links that will go to change.org, and we have a petition on there that I`m going to walk into the parole hearing and try to use all those signatures to get the parole board to see that it`s not okay for him to be out. Every parent in America should be afraid of this. There`s no telling who he`s going to get out and kill. Not just me. He`s also said it about a district attorney and a lawyer, and, again, he`s -- he claims that he`s bought a van and he`s ready to go do it again. Now he`s not going to get away with it.

GRACE: The website is rapedagain.com. Mr. McVicker, you can count on my signature. Thank you for being with us.

MCVICKER: Thank you. For the 21 kids that aren`t here to say it, thank you.

GRACE: Let`s stop and remember American hero, Marine Staff Sergeant Adam Perkins, 27, Antelope, California. Navy and Marine Corps Commendation Medals, National Defense Service Medal, Combat Action Ribbon. He left behind videos of him reading books for his son. Mother Loreen, stepfather Bill, four brothers, five sisters, his widow and son. Adam Perkins, American hero.

And tonight, go to hlntv.com/nancygrace for our interview with Vanilla Ice on Justin Bieber. Dr. Drew up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.

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