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Nancy Grace
Mom Tries to Sell Kids on Facebook; Woman Kills Pregnant Friend, Takes Her Fetus
Aired January 28, 2014 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RITA COSBY, GUEST HOST: Breaking news tonight. We go off the top to Oklahoma. A young mother of two takes to Facebook to show off photos of her children. Her message? I want to sell my 2-year-old and 10-month-old baby. And if that`s too much money, you can take the 2-year-old for just $1,000.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Authorities say a 22-year-old mom was so desperate to bail her lover out of jail! How do you bail him out? Sell your kids on Facebook!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Going door to door from here to all the way across town, asking everybody for money to get him out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For a grand total of $4,000, even offering them as a package deal!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: And tonight, a female neighbor accused of murdering a mother- to-be, physically cutting the baby out of her tummy, then posing as a new mother. We are live from the courthouse at the murder trial.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Corey is accused of giving Hayes a ride to the liquor store and then butchering the victim inside her Worcester apartment, beating and strangling Hayes before removing the live fetus and taking the infant to show off as her own at a family gathering.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) Hayes lay in her apartment with a 9- inch incision from the bottom of her stomach to the top of her stomach.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: George Zimmerman -- will he ever go away? After the shooting death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin and claims by Zimmerman`s live-in girlfriend that he points a gun at her face, Zimmerman walks free. Tonight, Zimmerman is back in the news with new art poking fun at Lady Justice, hoping to rake in $100,000. But now the Associated Press says he copied the photo.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: George Zimmerman has a new painting apparently of the woman who tried to put him behind bars.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This time, it`s the image of the special prosecutor for trying him for shooting and killing Trayvon Martin.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Zimmerman depicts her with her fingers pinched and a caption that reads, "I have this much respect for the American judicial system."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: And to Houston, a married American middle school teacher busted, accused of sexually assaulting her own boy student, the alleged child predator stalking the little boy, and now he is on suicide watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Katherine Marie (ph) accused of having sex with a then-15-year-old boy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The victim`s parents say he attempted suicide multiple times.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We don`t know every morning he will be dead or alive. We have to keep ourselves 24 hours awake, taking turns to see if he`s asleep or he`s drowned or he`s hanging in the tree!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: And to Sunbury (ph), Pennsylvania. They have their wedding day, then they become bloodthirsty newlyweds, cops say taking out a Craigslist ad to pull off a thrill kill. Then after they strangle and stab their victim to death, they head to the strip club to celebrate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Newlyweds, police say, were looking on Craigslist for a thrill kill.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They intended to kill somebody together.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do not believe that this was malicious whatsoever.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Troy Laforera (ph) had been stabbed numerous times and left for dead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: An autopsy recorded 20 stab wounds.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: And good evening, everybody. I`m Rita Cosby, in for Nancy Grace.
Thank you so much for joining us tonight, as we go off the top to Oklahoma, where a 22-year-old mother tries to sell her two little toddlers on line!
Let`s go straight to Kyle Garner, news director at KYHN radio. Kyle, a mother selling her own children and doing it on line -- tell us what happened here!
KYLE GARNER, KYHN RADIO (via telephone): Well, actually, what happened was 22-year-old Misty VanHorn attempted to raise money to pay for her boyfriend`s bond, which was set at $1,000. She initially was going door to door to try and raise this money, then went to the social media Web site Facebook to try and sell her 10-month-old and 2-year-old, both of which were girls.
What happened basically from there was she got on Facebook and contacted a woman in Arkansas, sent her a message saying, quote, "Just come to Sallisaw. It`s only 30 minutes away. I`ll give you all her stuff and let you have her for $1,000...
COSBY: Wait, wait, wait! Kyle, you`re just saying "give her." We`re talking about her child, right? I mean, this is her baby!
GARNER: Yes. Absolutely. It was -- actually, it was the 2-year-old that she initially tried to sell for the $1,000.
COSBY: Unbelievable!
Clark Goldband, take us from there. What happens next?
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Rita, this person, who was the prospective customer, if you will, is absolutely shocked! It`s important to point out, though, the conversation starts on the telephone! Then this would-be customer, if you will, is so shocked, she continues the conversation on Facebook.
And Rita, you can see those Facebook posts behind me. Take a look at this. "Hey, Misty, I lost my phone and it`s on silent, so I thought I`d message you on Facebook. Do you mean what you said about your daughter yesterday?"
And you see the reply. It continues. "So what actually do we need and what actually you mean by all of it? And I was asking because we were thinking about it, thinking about the purchase of the two girls."
And Rita, check this out. The mom replies -- now, keep in mind, this is on Facebook! "Just come to Sallisaw. It`s only 30 minutes away. I will give you all of her stuff and let you all have her forever for $1,000."
COSBY: Clark, I got to tell you, when I see this, it is so heartbreaking. I want -- let me see Clark because you know, Clark, it is just heartbreaking. It`s like, Let me -- would you buy a tomato for me? Would you buy an apple? These are kids! These are her kids!
GOLDBAND: You know, you wouldn`t even talk about a dog this way, Rita!
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: ... so cold.
GOLDBAND: Like, you know, $1,000, have her forever, take it or leave it. And that`s what appears to be in these posts on Facebook for the public to see.
COSBY: Unbelievable. Let`s go to Anna Flores. You are the person who actually got some of those Facebook postings. Thank goodness, by the way -- first of all, Anna, I just want to say kudos to you because you also went to the cops about this. You knew right away this was absolutely wrong, it was absolutely immoral.
First of all, what was your reaction when she said, Hey, I want to sell my kids to you?
ANNA FLORES-IVY, REFUSED TO BUY KIDS ON FACEBOOK (via telephone): Honestly, I was shocked. I could not believe it. I have kids of my own. I couldn`t imagine it. I was speechless for at least a couple minutes when she first said it.
COSBY: What about that response that Clark was saying -- Hey, by the way, you know, if it`s too much, let me -- you know, like, let me just buy a pound of potatoes. You know what? If it`s too much, just buy my 2-year- old for 1,000 bucks. Did your jaw just drop?
FLORES-IVY: Yes. With everything that was going on, just for the reason of why she wanted it, I couldn`t -- no, it was unbelievable.
COSBY: Unbelievable. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, what kind of a mother does this to her two young children? You think about a beautiful baby girl, a 10-month-old, and then you`ve got a 2-year-old daughter. What kind of a mother could do this to her kids?
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: A heinous mother who is not bonded with her children. I mean, Rita, I wouldn`t be surprised to learn that there are other signs of abuse and neglect in this household. I would wonder, is their refrigerator -- is there food in the refrigerator? Do the children have broken bones and bruises? Were there ever any domestic violence or child abuse reports to DFACS? I mean, that would be really interesting to know.
The other aspect of this is how long did this mother really know the boyfriend? I mean, this -- for all we know, this could be some guy that she met a couple weeks ago in a bar, and like most typical love and sex addicts who are more bonded with the love object than to their own children, the likelihood is she became obsessed with him at some point. Perhaps he tried to assume some control and some power over her life...
COSBY: And you know what`s amazing, Bethany?
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: I`ll give you the answer on the boyfriend. Apparently, the boyfriend is some, like, fleeting boyfriend. He`s in jail for not paying child support. And it`s not her kids.
MARSHALL: I -- I...
COSBY: So talk about a crazy...
MARSHALL: I knew it!
COSBY: ... disaster, Bethany!
MARSHALL: Right. That`s right. And so what we see with this guy, too, if he`s not paying his own child support, he`s more bonded with her than with his own children. So what a pair. We have two people who are obsessed with each other, colluding with each other, perhaps in a paranoid relationship with the rest of the world, meaning a sort of them against the world, against the law, against authorities, against their extended family...
COSBY: You know what? You know what else...
(CROSSTALK)
MARSHALL: ... and all they want is each other.
COSBY: I`ll just play (ph) pure and simple against her mind. Let`s go to the defense attorneys because I can`t wait to hear your reaction to this. Let`s go to Randy Kessler, Michael Gottlieb.
Randy, first of all, it`s on Facebook. You just heard from Anna, who received the Facebook messages saying, OK, well, you know, if this one is too much, let`s bargain for my 2-year-old, 1,000 bucks. What`s the defense? Let`s hear this one, Randy.
RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, she obviously had a mental breakdown and...
COSBY: Yes, you think?
KESSLER: There`s no evidence that she`s been abusing the children. There`s nothing out there that she`s been doing other things that are bad. She did this bad thing. She needs help. We need to evaluate her. We need to figure out what went wrong and how to fix her and how to get her better instead of everyone jumping on her. Thank goodness the kids were not harmed, and that this -- there was an intervention...
COSBY: But Randy...
KESSLER: ... by this nice...
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: Randy, this was planned. You make it sound like, Oh, she had this sudden lapse of memory. First she`s...
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: Randy, she`s going around to the neighbors saying, Hey, first of all, could I try to get some bond for this...
(CROSSTALK)
KESSLER: ... more and more desperate.
COSBY: Yes. But you know what? That`s desperate. That`s conniving. And that`s premeditation. That`s not some looney tune who just flipped out.
Michael, let`s hear your defense. Is it any better than Randy`s?
MICHAEL GOTTLIEB, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, it`s the same thing. I think it`s a temporary insanity...
(CROSSTALK)
GOTTLIEB: I mean, here`s a person -- what you have to understand is here`s a person who`s advertising the sale of her children on Facebook. The public nature of what she`s doing --
COSBY: Purposely putting it down!
GOTTLIEB: ... shows that she does not understand...
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: You know what makes me sick?
GOTTLIEB: ... understand the difference between right or wrong.
COSBY: You know, Michael? Michael, you know what makes me sick and makes me think, OK, well, let`s just throw in a bag of potato chips. Let`s buy this.
GOTTLIEB: Agreed.
COSBY: I mean, it is so scary. This whole Internet thing is so scary. It`s, like, where are the limits to what you can sell on Facebook? Where are the limits to what you can sell on the Internet?
GOTTLIEB: Thank goodness for the Internet...
KESSLER: I think that`s the whole point is she doesn`t...
COSBY: Yes, thank goodness we caught her red-handed! And thank goodness-
GOTTLIEB: But she doesn`t understand the...
COSBY: ... for Anna, who had a conscience...
GOTTLIEB: ... difference between right or wrong.
COSBY: ... and said, Let`s turn her in.
(CROSSTALK)
GOTTLIEB: She clearly does not understand the difference between right or wrong. She doesn`t appreciate the nature and consequences of her acts. She`s out with...
COSBY: So what -- so now...
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: Now, Michael Gottlieb, quick question. Do you think she should ever get access to her kids again? She is now, we understand, behind bars, but do you think that this mother ever deserves to see her kids again after selling them like a piece of meat?
GOTTLIEB: I think she need to be evaluated. We need to find out what`s wrong with her, what kind of mental health problems she has. And that`s not a question for me to decide, that`s a question for the state to decide, if she`s rehabilitated, if she`s acting under some type of insanity. There`s all kinds of programs to help and rehabilitate people. I don`t think you just...
COSBY: Yes, you know what?
GOTTLIEB: ... make a decision like that because somebody does something wrong one time.
COSBY: You don`t sell your -- oh, one time! Give me a break, you guys! You don`t sell your kid on line like a piece of meat. I hope she never gets to see her kids again! I hope her kids are in much safer care because this is abominable!
When we come back, a female neighbor accused of attacking a mother-to- be, cutting the baby out, then posing as a new mother.
And later: A 30-year-old middle school teacher busted after sexually assaulting a little boy in her class. He`s now on suicide watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We don`t know every morning he will be dead or alive. We have to keep ourselves 24 hours awake, taking turns to see if he`s asleep or he`s drowned or he`s hanging in the tree!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSBY: A female neighbor murders a mother-to-be, physically cutting the baby out of Mommy`s tummy, then goes on to pose as the new mother. She even has a baby shower! The murder trial has kicked off.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Julie Corey (ph) was desperate, say prosecutors, believing the only way to keep her boyfriend was to convince him she was carrying his child.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The host of lies that she told to friends, to family about being in the hospital, about being pregnant. She wasn`t pregnant.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They contend she faked an array of prenatal visits and locked in on pregnant former neighbor Darlene (ph) Hayes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cutting the victim`s unborn baby out of her womb.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: And I`m Rita Cosby, in for Nancy Grace today.
Let`s go to straight to Alexis Weed, NANCY GRACE producer who`s right there at the courthouse again today. Give us the very latest, Alexis, on what happened.
ALEXIS WEED, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right. Today, Rita, the case today, the testimony (INAUDIBLE) heard was all about where`s the DNA? The state started to lay out its case item by item, talking about the things that they examined from that crime scene. And the defense went in on cross, and little by little, chipped away on each item and said, Well, was the DNA on that? Did you find Corey, the defendant`s, DNA on this item, that item? And again and again, the prosecutor`s witness said, No, we don`t have DNA there.
COSBY: Alexis, walk us through. There were two knives that were talked about a lot today in court. Give us the significance because what I think is so amazingly heartbreaking about this case is the woman who`s accused of killing her friend, strangling her with an electrical cord, hitting her on the head with a hammer and then cutting the baby out of her womb -- it`s just unbelievable! So the knives, I think, play a key role.
WEED: OK, so Rita, two knives were found at the crime scene. These were found in the kitchen of Darlene Hayes`s home. One of the knives had traces of blood that was ere non-visible blood, and this was the knife that didn`t have the handle on the knife. The other one, no blood found there.
But yes, one of these two knives could be the murder weapon, but there`s no link, as far as we know, to show that it affirmatively, definitively is the murder weapon. The defense is going to get up there and say there is no weapon in this case.
COSBY: Let`s go to Dr. William Morrone, medical examiner, forensic pathologist. Also, could we also show the picture again because when we had Alexis just on, we had this picture. And there it is. I mean, this is just unbelievable, Dr. Morrone, when you see that this is her bloody body, basically, a woman in the closet. This is what investigators found when they discovered Darlene Hayes, 23, who had been so brutally killed.
How much of an effect, do you think, Dr. Morrone, that`s going to have on the jury and also all the evidence there, too?
DR. WILLIAM MORRONE, MEDICAL EXAMINER, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST (via telephone): Well, the evidence is insurmountable, but we have to go back to the fundamentals. Everybody keeps worrying about DNA. There`s patterns of fiber and trace transfer. Fingerprints are also important, but sometimes they`re just considered old-fashioned. You cannot have that much of a messy, disturbed crime scene without bloody fingerprints. And those are the kind of things that are going to have to come out slowly, but that photographic evidence is traumatic.
And if you`ll remember, there are some people, like Drew Peterson in Chicago -- he`s in jail because of the violent nature of what happened, and there was no victim to be found. So juries do look at the tragedy of the forensic evidence, and that will be very important.
COSBY: Let`s go to the defense attorneys, Randy Kessler, Michael Gottlieb. The other thing, too, is today there was a DNA expert who said, yes, the baby that this woman suddenly shows up with and says, Oh, I had a baby -- meanwhile, there`s no proof she had a baby anywhere. No hospital shows she had a baby. She calls a friend, calls the boyfriend, too, and says, Oh, my water broke and then I had a baby girl. It`s confirmed that it`s this woman who was murdered whose body we see laying there -- that it`s her baby.
So what`s the defense, Randy Kessler, for this one?
KESSLER: Well, it`s a tragedy. But you know, we have a right to trial by jury, and that`s what Jodi Arias did. We see where that ended up landing her, but she wanted to defend herself. And this lady apparently thinks there`s some sympathy on the jury. The problem is...
COSBY: You know what`s amazing, Randy? Randy, she said she got the baby by legal means. And then the other thing we heard in the last 24 hours, she`s saying, Oh, So-and-So did it. So-and-So may have done it. You know, the boogeyman may have done it.
The jury is going to go, Wait a minute. You made all these calls. Your fingerprint is on the wine cooler, which is in the house. People saw her with the woman the night she was killed. All this evidence, what, suddenly a baby just happens to spring out of nowhere? She has to explain how she, quote, "got it" for legal means, don`t you think, Randy?
KESSLER: Yes, but you know what, Rita? You can`t be found not guilty if you plead guilty. She pled not guilty. It still gives her a chance of being not guilty. You`re innocent until proven guilty, so right now, she`s innocent. She may be delaying the inevitable, but right now, you never know. Prosecutions make mistakes. They drag cases out. They make errors. They make you put on gloves that don`t fit and then you have to acquit.
COSBY: Yes, she just kind of happens to have the baby, Randy, just happens to have the baby!
KESSLER: I`m not saying she`s innocent. I`m saying she may have a defense, and she`s trying her case and she has a right to a trial by jury. If she`s found guilty, she will pay the consequence, but she has the right to a defense.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Corey`s defense team goes on the attack, blaming police for over looking other suspects who are really the ones responsible for Darlene`s death.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They say they have a witness who (INAUDIBLE) crossed the street and went over to the gas station behind me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Claiming Corey came into possession of the baby by lawful means.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: And I`m Rita Cosby, in for Nancy tonight. A mother-to-be very excited about having a baby, then she is now apparently killed by one of her good friends. The friend is now on trial for murder. The woman was definitely found dead in the closet, and it looks like her friend strangled, stabbed her and beat her. Absolutely horrific.
Let`s go back to the defense attorneys. Michael Gottlieb, we were just hearing from Randy, Oh, she`s going to plead, you know, whatever, this miracle, somebody else did it. Does that defense ever work? She`s going to say, Oh, so-and-So may have done it. So-and-So may have done it. But - - but yet her DNA is there. She suddenly has the baby. I think the fact she has the baby, still can`t explain how she got this woman`s baby, who was cut out of her womb -- that, I think, is the big thing and the jury`s just going to go, She did it.
GOTTLIEB: There`s no doubt that that looks bad for her. There`s no doubt that there`s an emotional aspect to this case. But the government still has to prove...
COSBY: Emotional aspect? Emotional!
GOTTLIEB: Well...
COSBY: Michael, it`s beyond emotional! I want to go back to that crime scene because that picture...
GOTTLIEB: Right, but you need to examine...
COSBY: Hang on a second, Michael. Let me show you the pictures because when you look at this picture and you see this woman found in a closet, stuffed in a closet after brutally beaten, and this woman suddenly ends up with her baby, it`s more than emotion. There`s going to be anger and outrage by this jury, don`t you think, Michael?
GOTTLIEB: Yes, but there`s emotion on both sides of the table. The defendant is a mother who lost her child. She had a miscarriage. She`s no doubt depressed. She has this baby...
COSBY: Yes, so depressed, so let me...
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: Let me just kill and steal the baby because I`m depressed!
GOTTLIEB: Listen, it`s...
COSBY: If that were the case, that`s outrageous!
GOTTLIEB: It`s a major -- it`s major mental health disorder. She comes into -- she comes into possession of the child. And she does not have to prove anything. It`s up to the government. In a circumstantial case, you`re going to tell me that she`s guilty because her fingerprint`s on a wine bottle? I mean, come on!
COSBY: No, I`m going to tell you...
GOTTLIEB: That`s not proper...
COSBY: I`m going to tell you she`s guilty, Michael, because she said she was going to have a child. She threw this big baby party, never had the baby, and now suddenly ends up with the baby. I think she`s in big- time trouble. And everybody, we will continue to follow this horrible case.
And when we come back, George Zimmerman is at it again, hoping to rake in $100,000, thumbing his nose at Lady Justice. But this time, he`s busted.
And later, a 30-year-old middle school teacher sexually assaults a little boy in her own class. Now he`s on suicide watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We don`t know every morning he will be dead or alive. We have to keep ourselves 24 hours awake, taking turns to see if he`s asleep or he`s drowned or he`s hanging in the tree!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSBY: George Zimmerman, will he ever go away? Zimmerman back in the news again with new art, hoping to rake in $100,000. That`s right, $100,000. But this time he`s totally busted. AP says he stole their photo.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then there`s George. George Zimmerman.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, he paints. He`s an artist. We use that term loosely.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a way for him to express himself.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The first painting reportedly sold for over $100,000. Now reports George Zimmerman is back for more.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Apparently in some trouble again. This time the smoking gun might actually be a paintbrush.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Zimmerman ripped off an AP photo to make this portrait.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could this peiece of artwork sink him?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: Let`s go to Deborah Roberts, she`s an anchor and reporter with Florida News Network. Debra, fill us in on this latest wackiness of George Zimmerman.
DEBORAH ROBERTS, FLORIDA NEWS NETOWRK: Apparently he is so deep in the hole with his legal bills, reportedly at least $2.5 million in debt just to his defense team, Mark O`Mara and Don West. He`s unable to find a job, he needs a therapeutic outlet, so he started painting pictures, selling them. And as a former art major, I can say I`m not too happy about someone like George Zimmerman making over $100,000 for what is basically paint by numbers.
COSBY: How many pictures has he done so far, Deborah, and when did he start doing this?
ROBERTS: This is his second painting that he`s just released, and over the last several months, he says he`s unable to go outside of course because of his notoriety, he`s unable to get a job, and so painting has offered him a therapeutic outlet, and quite honestly, a way to start paying his bills.
COSBY: So I guess in between the accusations of the wife and the girlfriend, let`s just paint a little picture. Clark Goldband, what else do you know?
GOLDBAND: Rita, I don`t know much about art, but I can show you both of the images behind me, and you and the viewers can decide for themselves now. Take a look. Here`s the painting. You see it here. I have this much respect for the American judicial system. And on the bottom of that it says "Angie C." Of course, Angela Corey. Now, this is an image of Corey taken at the press conference when she announced the charge against George Zimmerman.
Now, take a look at the screen behind me. This is a photo of Angie C, or prosecutor Angela Corey, taken at the press conference when she announced the charges. Now, when you split the screen, there certainly looks to be quite a few similarities. We reached out for comment to both the Associated Press and the photographer who snapped the photo. The photographer says he knows art, this isn`t art, and he`s not happy that his image was used. The Associated Press says "it is clear that George Zimmerman copied an Associated Press photo." So both the photographer who works for the AP and the AP not happy with these images. Was this a copy? You decide for yourself.
COSBY: Well, they sure look a lot alike, and I don`t know art that well, but I can tell you that looks like a pretty good copy there, Clark. Let`s go to Andy Cahn, victim`s advocate with the city of Houston. You also coined the term murderabilia. What`s your reaction to this, Andy?
ANDY CAHN, VICTIM`S ADVOCATE WITH THE CITY OF HOUSTON: I`ll tell you, Rita, it`s great to be on with you. No matter what, this is a tragedy no matter how it legally played out. The fact that Zimmerman is now profiting off of his relationship to the case is just absolutely mind-boggling to me. And obviously, he seems to be thriving off of his ill-gotten infamy. As long as it continues to feed his ego, and as long as we continue to pay attention to him, he`s likely to turn out more and more product. But the bottom line is he is legally able to capitalize off of the death of a young man. And I believe Zimmerman is now beginning to recognize he is essentially a cottage industry.
COSBY: Yes, and you know what, it is amazing, Andy, I`ll tell you, it gets me so sick. I agree with you. It`s become this whole industry. What bothers me, and I want to bring in Frank Taaffe, of course friend of George Zimmerman. When you see this, Frank, what bothers me, too, is -- and there are a lot of people who, of course, question the verdict in the case with Trayvon Martin. And then here he says I have this much respect, basically, for the American justice system. A lot of people would say, this guy got off with murder, and now he`s like -- he`s mocking the justice system. What do you think of this, Frank?
FRANK TAAFFE, FRIEND OF GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: Well, this is wackier than a snowstorm in Atlanta, isn`t it, Rita?
COSBY: It is wacky, that`s a good analogy, but also, isn`t it disrespectful? Forget the--
(CROSSTALK)
TAAFFE: I want to go back to the guest who said it was murder -- whatever he said it was, mobilia?
COSBY: Murderabilia. It`s selling, profiting, hang on, Frank, let me give you the definition. It`s basically profiting off someone`s misfortune. Here`s Trayvon Martin, remember him, who lost his life in this whole case?
TAAFFE: You mean like the Trayvon Martin Foundation that`s profiting off the death of Trayvon Martin?
COSBY: Guess what?
TAAFFE: You want to talk about that? Let`s talk about that, okay?
COSBY: You know what they`re trying to do actually?
TAAFFE: It`s OK, they can make money.
COSBY: Frank, they`re trying to help other victims. They`re trying to help other victims of crime. I guess you don`t care about that.
TAAFFE: George is trying to get his life back in order. And you know what, I have this much respect for the subject matter that he painted in there, too. She`s very reprehensible to go on national TV right after the acquittal and say he got away with murder.
COSBY: Frank, let me say one thing. And by the way, that was her opinion after the case. His side said some equally reprehensible things.
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: Frank, hold on, let`s just talk about George Zimmerman. (inaudible). First of all, he`s caught speeding a couple of times, then there is this accusation by his wife and then the girlfriend --
TAAFFE: Who hasn`t?
COSBY: Most people don`t get pulled over by the cops and 911 calls seems like every other month. After they get away with murder, as some people believe.
TAAFFE: That`s because their name ain`t George Zimmerman.
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: So they`re following him? Is that the case now?
(CROSSTALK)
TAAFFE: I think you guys -- if he was Otis Hayseed, no one would give a rat`s behind, but because --
COSBY: Can I tell you one thing, Frank? If he was Otis Hayseed, he would probably say, luckily, I got off. It was a case that a lot of people are divided, and guess what? In that case, he should just be sitting home and not trying to profit on someone`s misfortune.
TAAFFE: Okay. Okay. Let`s look at it from the Trayvon Martin Foundation. They`re making millions, okay?
COSBY: And you know what?
TAAFFE: George cannot find a job.
(CROSSTALK)
TAAFFE: George Zimmerman can`t get a job. He just can`t walk down to an agency and say, here I am, folks. Hire me. I`m George Zimmerman. Get real.
COSBY: Is he going to be the next Vincent Van Gogh? You know what he should do? Let me just tell you something, Frank. Hold on. What he should do is use the proceeds -- I would have no problem, by the way, if he did this -- and then gave the proceeds to maybe the Trayvon Martin Foundation or another foundation that`s doing great work. Frank, thanks so much. Always nice talking to you.
TAAFFE: Don`t cut my mike. Just listen to me.
COSBY: I`ll give you five minutes if you can make a coherent sentence.
TAAFFE: -- it`s not going to be hanging up in the Louvre, or in Jacksonville, they call it the Lor-vay, okay? Let`s call it what it is, all right?
COSBY: Let`s call it what it is, a guy profiting from someone else`s misfortune. Thanks so much.
And when we come back, a 30-year-old female schoolteacher turned alleged child predator for sexually assaulting a little boy in her class. He`s now on suicide watch.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSBY: I`m Rita Cosby in for Nancy Grace. A married middle schoolteacher busted, accused of sexually assaulting her own boy student, the alleged child predator stalking the little boy, and now he`s on suicide watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Katherine Camille Murray (ph) charged with the sexual assault of a 15-year-old boy. 12-year-old brother saw a tanned bra and a used condom and saw his brother in bed with Murray hiding under the covers.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And now the student`s parents say the boy is on suicide watch.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We don`t know every morning if he`ll be dead or alive. We have to keep ourselves 24 hours awake taking turns to see if he`s asleep or he`s drowned or he`s hanging in a tree.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: Let`s go straight to Joe Gomez, investigative reporter with newsradio KRLD. Joe, tell us what happened. It seems like this woman just couldn`t control herself over and over and over again.
JOE GOMEZ, KRLD: It`s truly an incredible story, Rita. This 15-year- old boy apparently got into some sort of a romantic relationship with this 28-year-old teacher who was teaching him English. He was an ESL student. We understand that they had sex once in the classroom. They even got a hotel room together, she got a hotel room, I should say, after a school dance. And then the cat finally came out of the bag when they went to his parents` home, and apparently had sex there. His 12-year-old brother walked in on them in bed and saw a used condom on the floor along with a bra --
COSBY: Joe, the 12-year-old brother. This boy is 15 at the time, and the 12-year-old younger brother walks in and catches his brother in bed with a teacher?
GOMEZ: Can you believe that, Rita, with a used condom on the floor along with a bra. It is unbelievable. So this 12-year-old boy tells his mother about it, and that`s when the cat finally gets out of the bag.
COSBY: Unbelievable. We are not naming the boy, of course, because of his age at the time. Let`s bring in the parents. We had Jenny, the mother of the boy, and also Alex who also joins us. The father.
Mom, Jenny, I just cannot imagine what happened, and my heart breaks for you as a mom, because we trust our teachers. We have our boys with them, and we trust our kids with these teachers. And you found out through a number of ways. Walk us through how you discovered it.
JENNY: Well, first of all, was my son was at school, then immediately I have e-mailed the teacher asking why my son had to stay after school, and then several times she says, we`re working on a project and homework and a test. I know my son barely speaks any English, so I would say, my son is staying after school, I need to have an e-mail that he is in your classroom and what time he is coming home. Which we live a few minutes away from the school, and I even sent a couple e-mails, saying that I do speak English, and so does my husband, and we also can be paying private tutors for my son to study --
COSBY: Jenny, I`m sorry to interrupt you, but I understand there was a text you actually got that was meant for your son, and she accidentally sent it to you. What did that text say?
JENNY: Yes. It was a Monday. Previous to that Monday, my son went to school dance. I let him use my phone, and I was with a doctor, and then I was sitting in the lobby when I received a text. And I kept looking at the phone and I thought, no, it might be wrong. This might not be for me. Then I read on the text her name, Katherine Murray. And I went to the restroom and I was passing out in the restroom. I had to go back to the doctor, and I said, doctor, if you could give me an injection for my migraines because I was fainting in the doctor`s office, which I could not say why. Immediately I called my husband, immediately I called the school, and I met with the principal and I showed the phone. And the phone says, "don`t worry about it, we`ll work this together, and I love you."
COSBY: I love you.
JENNY: I love you. Of course, when I see those messages on the phone, I mean, I read it maybe 20 times because I couldn`t believe what was in this message. I couldn`t believe that she sent a message to my son.
COSBY: Your heart must have just broken to see her sending a message. And there it is in writing. I understand -- I want to give you, by the way, tons of credit, first of all, for talking about this, for letting other parents know about it. And you also, you actually got bedsheets, you got evidence, you hired private investigators. Kudos to you, because you were able to get this woman red-handed.
I want to bring in your husband real quick, too, Alex, who is the father of this young boy. Alex, I want to ask you, because I understand your son is just devastated by this whole thing. How is he doing? There`s word he may be on suicide watch. Is that right, Alex?
ALEX: Yes, he was on suicide watch when -- after all this developed, and he is doing much better. We have him in a boarding school right now where he`s watched 24/7. He`s taking depression medicine, so in order for him not to miss school, we had to put him in a boarding school so he`s also getting educated. He`s finishing school. But to be honest with you, we have not told him about the sentencing yet, because we don`t know how he will react at this point. We went to see him this weekend, and we saw that he`s made a lot of progress. He`s -- there`s several steps to the school where you have to graduate from each step, and he`s graduated from all the steps. He`s doing much, much better.
COSBY: I`m so glad, because he truly was a victim in this. And Matt Zarell, Nancy Grace producer, what`s incredible about this case, not only for these just heroic parents, and I can`t imagine what it was like for the brother to walk in and find his older brother in bed with the teacher, who is supposed to be teaching him English. This poor boy comes all the way from a foreign land, comes here to learn English, and she`s not teaching him English, she`s teaching him sex. But Matt Zarrell, this woman kept doing this over and over again. Talk about an addicted person.
ZARRELL: In fact, Rita, after she was originally arrested, she was ordered to stay away from the victim. However, she did not heed those orders because police caught her at her father`s house with the teen boy sneaking out the back door.
COSBY: When we come back, bloodthirsty newlyweds. Cops say after the wedding day, the bride and groom go on Craigslist, then thrill-kill together.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSBY: They had their wedding day, then become bloodthirsty newlyweds, according to police. The couple accused of strangling and stabbing a male victim to death, then heading to the strip club to celebrate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Phone records led investigators to zero in on Barber, and eventually she admitted meeting the victim through the website Craigslist. Elliot Barber told police they killed LaFerrera (ph) because they just wanted to murder someone together.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s hard to imagine something bad like that happening in this town, but that`s what happened.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You just got to be cautious what you`re doing. You stay off the Craigslist.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: Let`s go straight to Mark Williams, news director WHLM Radio. Mark, you know what, it breaks my heart, it`s just so unfathomable. These people go on Craigslist, and they have only been married three weeks, this is his birthday, their anniversary, and they say, I guess, or newlyweds there, three-week anniversary, and oh, let`s just go ahead and kill somebody?
MARK WILLIAMS, WHLM RADIO: That is a marriage made in heck, what can I say, Rita? 19-year-old Marinda Barber and her 22-year-old husband had always wanted to kill someone. This is--
COSBY: Always like, this is like this fantasy, I want a red shirt, but they want to go kill somebody?
WILLIAMS: Ever since they met in the Carolinas, before they got married, they had talked about it. They got married in October, moved to a small town in Pennsylvania called Seeland`s Grove, Pennsylvania, in nearby Snyder County, and from there, they met through Craigslist, 42-year-old Troy LaFierra (ph). That`s where it began. The ad was placed on November 1, he was -- they picked him up on November 11, his body was found the next day, his truck was found on the 13th. This was a whirlwind relationship with a third party in there. Unbelievable.
COSBY: It`s just absolutely disgusting. Justin Freiman, Nancy Grace producer, Justin, walk us through. They put the ad on Craigslist and what are cops saying now happened?
FREIMAN: They say that what happened was they arranged to meet at a local mall. And when they did meet at the local mall, Eliot, he was behind in this SUV in the back seat covered by a blanket, waiting to jump out and strangle the victim.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSBY: Let`s go back to Justin Freiman, Nancy Grace producer. Justin, real quick, she apparently -- and we`re talking about these newlywed thrill killers, who decide to put an ad on Craigslist and kill somebody, what a lovely way to celebrate his birthday and their three-week anniversary. So they put an ad out, cops are now saying she stabbed him, and he strangled this guy.
FREIMAN: That`s right. After they met in the mall parking lot, she lures him into her vehicle, they go drive off to a secluded place. And that is when her husband jumps out, pops out from the back seat, strangles the victim, and at the same time, she stabs him 20 times.
COSBY: Unbelievable. Let`s go back to Dr. Michael Maroney (ph), can you prove who did the what, who did the stabbing, who did the strangling? And what a horrible death to do to someone who just accepts an ad on Craigslist.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is going to be the trace evidence. People like to look at DNA, but there`s going to be fibers that connect that part of the car to the guy in the back, to the guy that died. And whenever anybody is stabbed 20 times, that`s not self-defense. That`s premeditated, and it`s ritual, and it follows the code that they seem to be following in this very dysfunctional relationship.
COSBY: It`s unbelievable, because the wife indeed said, oh, he was trying to grope me, meanwhile they put the ad out, she stabbed him 20 times, and it looks like the husband is now also accused of strangling. Unbelievable. We will be following this story, everyone.
We remember American hero, Marine Corporal Jeffrey Johnson, 21 years old from Trumbull (ph), Texas. He was awarded a Purple Heart and a Combat Action Ribbon. From a military family, he loved NASCAR and dreamed of being a game warden. He leaves behind his parents, Jerry and Dawn. His stepmother, Kelly. Two sisters, one brother, and his widow Katie. Jeffrey Johnson, an American hero.
Dr. Drew is coming up next, with the very latest on the case of an Arizona woman accused of bludgeoning her husband to death with a hammer.
Thank you so much for joining us, it was great being with you. Have a great evening.
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