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Nancy Grace

Mississippi 2-Year-Old Snatched; Oscar Pistorius Goes on Trial for Murder

Aired March 03, 2014 - 20:00   ET


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Camden, Amber Alert. At this hour, we are waiting on a police update, a 2-year-old little girl snatched from the front yard, broad daylight. We go live for the latest.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Anybody know anything, please, y`all, just bring the baby back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The other children (INAUDIBLE) 2-year-old went outside to play.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Several police agencies, local volunteers and search and rescue crews searched for miles around this wooded area in hopes of finding Myra.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All I`m asking, that anybody that know anything, please go to the...


GRACE: And tonight, a living superstar, Oscar Pistorius, aka "blade runner," shoots to fame, breaking world records, even running on prosthetic leg blades. In the last hours, the Olympic icon sobbing in court. The police say he wasn`t crying the night he guns down his girlfriend, now claiming he thought she was an intruder.

An intruder? He`s been laying next to her all night in a negligee. Intruder? No way!


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bang, bang, bang.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) the fatal gunshot wounds to Reeva. This occurrence was indeed an accident.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How do you plead?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) petrified (ph) screams (ph) and shouts.


GRACE: And suburban Tanglewild (ph), a 2-year-old little girl, Kelsey (ph), dead. Doctors say it looks like she`s been struck by a car traveling around 40 MPH, but tonight we learn there was no car accident, toddler Kelsey beaten to death, Mommy caught on tape showing absolutely no remorse, no sympathy for her dead 2-year-old. In fact, in the last hours, we learn Mommy makes plans to go out and party hearty with a girlfriend the very night her daughter pronounced dead.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My little cousin, she -- I don`t know what`s wrong. She`s not breathing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two-year-old Kelsey died from brunt force trauma to her abdomen.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was never any signs or indication of remorse or real emotion.


GRACE: And to the Washington suburbs, specifically, the Little Sisters of the Poor convent, a newborn baby boy smothered to death inside the nunnery. Did a 26-year-old nun smother the baby dead so the other sisters wouldn`t hear the baby cry and figure out she had sex? Tonight, the killer nun!


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A 26-year-old nun in training gave birth.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Detectives said she confessed that she was afraid someone would hear the child crying and learn of her pregnancy. So she placed a black rolled garment over the child`s nose and mouth and applied pressure with her hand for two to three minutes.


GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight, live to Camden, Amber Alert. At this hour, we are waiting on a police update, a 2-year-old beautiful baby girl snatched from the front yard, broad daylight. We go live for the latest.

Straight out to Tammy Estwick, reporter with CNN affiliate WAPT. Tammy, it`s my understanding there were several children in the home, that Mom is leaving to go to the grocery store, she sends all the children in, they all come in, but at some point, Dad is watching the very smallest one, and this little girl goes back outside? Is that correct?

TAMMY ESTWICK, WAPT (via telephone): That is what the family believes happened. There are, at any point in time, at least 10 kids in the house between Mom and Dad. Mom left, Dad was inside with the baby in a back room, and the rest of the kids were sent inside after playing in the front.

Mom is leaving, and she sends them in. The kids allegedly go inside, and from that point on, we really don`t know what happened to Myra. Dad says around noon, he went to fix everyone something to eat, and he asked the other kids where the 2-year-old was...

GRACE: Wait a minute! So it was at noontime that we figure out the baby`s even gone?

Robyn Walensky, anchor with TheBlaze, joining me with Tammy Estwick from WAPT -- Robyn, how much time did we lose before Dad figures out the baby is gone?

ROBYN WALENSKY, THEBLAZE (via telephone): You know, Nancy, that is really the headline here because, apparently, the mother claims that she sees her little girl, Myra, at 10:00 AM, Daddy goes to fix lunch, and then the sheriff`s office claims that they weren`t contacted until 4:00 o`clock. So you`re talking about a solid six-hour delay...

GRACE: Oh, no. On, no! Whoa, whoa, whoa! Robyn -- Robyn and Tammy, hold on. Let`s go straight to hear what police are saying right now.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Parents stated they last saw the 2-year-old around 10:00 AM, and there were several kids here. The father was watching an infant child inside. The other children went outside to play, and the 2- year-old wandered off.

We`ve searched approximately four square miles around this residence, and unfortunately, have not been able to locate Myra.


GRACE: This is an extremely rural area, where it`s very difficult to imagine there being someone stalking them. Tammy Estwick, WAPT, we just heard what police had to say. Although we know that in other rural areas, this has happened before -- we all remember the Groenes, Shasta Groene and her little brother, that were taken out, basically, in a very, very obscure, very rural area. Of course, there`s Michael Devlin, who kidnapped Ben Ownsby and Shawn Hornbeck, the two little boys that were out in a very rural area riding their bicycles several years apart. And it`s not unheard of.

Out to the lines. Amber in Texas. Hi, Amber. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I love you, by the way.

GRACE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, I have a 7-year-old and his eyes are on me all the time. And I understand there was an infant, but this child is tiny. She`s 2 years old. Why is the dad not watching the children?

GRACE: Well, you know what? I want to clear up the timeline. Clark Goldband, I`m a little blurry on this. I just realized how many -- I thought two hours passed, but as I look at the timeline, more hours passed before the child was even reported missing. How did that happen?

And remember, the parents are not persons of interest. They`re not suspects. I`m trying to get a handle on the timeline, Clark.

CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right, Nancy. Well, you`re talking about four hours or so, and here`s why. The mom says she drives away from the home about 10:30 in the morning to go food shopping. She sees the girls outside, tells them to go...

GRACE: Did you say 10:30?

GOLDBAND: About 10:30 to 11:00, yes, ma`am.

GRACE: OK. Go ahead.

GOLDBAND: So then the mom leaves to go food shopping, and then the girls go back in the house. Now, here`s the big question. What happens between about noon lunchtime and 4:00 o`clock when the girl is reported missing?

Here`s another thing, Nancy. We know the girl had at least one sister outside. So that, hopefully, should answer the caller`s question. We don`t know the age of at least one older sister.

GRACE: To Marc Klaas, president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation. What are your thoughts on this, Marc?

MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION (via telephone): Well, I think that (ph) several things, Nancy. First of all, Clark made a good point. How old are the other children? If they`re old enough, they might have some very compelling testimony.

Also, who were the last persons to have seen the girl besides the mother and father? Also, when a child goes missing like this, one of the first things that should have been done is tracking dogs should have been brought directly to the scene so that they can demonstrate or determine the last known direction of the child. And I think it would have been much better to have professional search and rescue teams searching for this child, rather than law enforcement officers and volunteers.

GRACE: Out to the lines. Kerry in Kentucky.

Everyone, for those of you just joining us, a 2-year-old little girl taken from this rural area. Take a look. Here she is, last seen wearing a turquoise sweater with a black bear on front, khaki pants, pink glittery shoes. Myra Lewis, just 2 years old, snatched from her front yard.

At this hour, I`m just hearing in my ear the parents have cleared the house -- the police have cleared the house. That means they`re not looking at the home as a crime scene. Repeat, the parents are not suspects. They are not persons of interest.

For those of you out there that have children, remember when they were 2 years old, 2 years old? They`d just learned to walk. They were putting their sentences together. This little girl is just 2 years old, playing in the front yard. She`s only been gone 30 minutes to an hour, but six hours pass before we realize she`s gone?

Back to Kerry in Kentucky. What`s your question, Kerry?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I was wondering how old the other children were. By the way, I love you. You`re awesome. Thank you for all that you do.

GRACE: Kerry, you know what? Thank you. I just -- when I hear stories like this -- and I know it`s wrong -- I put my own child in that spot...


GRACE: ... John David and Lucy, when they were 2. Can you even imagine? Of course, I`ve always been so uber-aware of safety issues. I don`t think they`ve ever been alone in the front yard in their life, ever.

But I remember, Kerry, I don`t know if you remember, we could get on a bicycle and ride all day and come back in summer months, you know, at dinnertime, at suppertime, and that was OK. It`s not like that anymore. As a matter of fact, take a listen to this.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Seven-year-old Summer Thompson who was abducted and murdered.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who vanishes while walking home from her elementary school.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ten-year-old Jessica Ridgeway.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was last seen walking to school.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. This is Jaycee Dugard.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was grabbed as she walked to her bus stop.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Haley Dunn (ph) walked out the doors of this house and was never seen again.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Fourteen-year-old Amber Dubois goes missing on her way to school.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fifteen-year-old Abigail Hernandez (ph) vanished after she left high school.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A 5-year-old, Samantha Runyon, Samantha abducted.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) grabbed Hailey Owens, threw her in his truck and drove away (INAUDIBLE) blocks away from her own home.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A 2-year-old, Myra Lewis, reported missing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Last saw the 2-year-old around (INAUDIBLE) other children went outside to play.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How many children do we have to take away before we, as Americans, get organized? We outnumber you so many times over! There is no excuse, and we`re not going to let you get away with this anymore!


GRACE: Let me give you the tip line, 855-642-5378. Repeat, 855-642- 5378.

When we come back, in the last hours, Olympic superstar Oscar Pistorius, aka "blade runner," sobbing in court. But police say he was not crying the night he guns down his girlfriend, now claiming he thought she was an intruder. Hello? He`s been lying next to her in bed in lingerie all night. Intruder? No way!


GRACE: Tonight, Olympic superstar Oscar Pistorius, aka "blade runner," shoots to fame, breaking world records, even running on prosthetic leg blades. Well, in the last hours, the Olympic icon sobbing in court, but police say he was not crying the night he guns down his girlfriend, now claiming he thought she was an intruder.

Hello? He`s been lying next to her in bed all night dressed in lingerie. An intruder? No way!


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How do you plead?

PISTORIUS: Not guilty, my lady.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The fear in that woman`s voice is difficult to explain to the court.

PISTORIUS: Not guilty, my lady.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mistakenly believed that an intruder or intruders had entered my home and posed an imminent threat to Reeva and me.


GRACE: And we learn in the last hours that since (ph) the time of his girlfriend`s shooting death, she had barricaded herself in the bathroom, crying hysterically. He shot through the bathroom door to kill her, still claiming he thought she was an intruder. Is it true that he would have to reach over her to get his gun?

Michael Christian, what, if anything, do we know about that?

MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): My understanding, Nancy, is that he keeps the gun under the bed. We knew it was a .9-millimeter. Again, his story has always been he heard banging, he heard an open window. He believed it was an intruder. He shot believing it was an intruder.

But the first witness who was on the stand today said that she heard screams, and they were a woman`s screams and they were blood-curdling screams.

GRACE: This is very, very important, and I`m going to throw this to Robyn Curnow, anchor and international correspondent, joining me. Robyn, did the screams heard by the neighbor come before the bullet?

ROBYN CURNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it depends who you speak to, doesn`t it. And it`s the judge`s decision on whether or not she was telling the truth.

I was in court today. The neighbor said -- and it wasn`t a neighbor, I must just say. She was a number of houses away from Oscar Pistorius`s house. She said she heard a woman scream, then a man scream, then four bullets, four shots go off. She said she heard them in the interval of bang -- bang, bang, bang, so that there was a space between the first bullet and the second bullet, and then she heard more screams after that.

Now, this was very compelling evidence. It was very important, according to the state. But when she was under cross-examination, it was clear that the defense actually took her down, ripped apart her statement. They said, Listen, were you asleep? Were you awake? Why is it that you were in the same bedroom with your husband and your husband made a separate statement saying that he heard five, six, perhaps seven or eight bullets -- shots being fired that night? Why did the husband and wife hear different sounds and the different amount of sounds?

And why, why, why? There were a lot of questions. So I think at this point in time, it is very, very dangerous to start making assumptions. It`s...

GRACE: Well, I agree. I understand that the...

CURNOW: ... one of a marathon here.

GRACE: I understand, Robyn, that the defense is making an issue about how many bullets were fired, but the reality is, it only takes one to kill. And my chief concern is, could Oscar Pistorius hear his girlfriend`s voice on the other side of that door screaming before or during the shooting?

I understand that you`ve actually gotten a chance to speak with Pistorius. What have you learned, Robyn?

911 OPERATOR: I mean, just to answer your first part of the question, that key question on, did he know whether Reeva Steenkamp was behind that door, is the basis of all of this. It`s the reason I`m standing in the rain outside of a courthouse in the middle of the night talking to you. Did he know it was here? He said he didn`t, it was a terrible mistake. The state`s alleged that he did know. When she screamed, when he screamed are all going to be so crucial to all of this.

And it doesn`t just boil down to what he says or what some neighbor says. You`re going to hear the weather service. You`re going to hear experts. You`re going to hear all sorts of forensic analysts. As you well know, in a trial like this, this is not that simple!

In terms of what he said to me, what I have seen since the shooting, Oscar Pistorius, I can confirm is sad. He`s heartbroken. He`s most definitely longing for Reeva. And he is very, very aware of the consequences of his actions that day...

GRACE: OK, well...

911 OPERATOR: ... and he has photographs of her and he carries them around with him. They surround him in his home. So that is the Oscar Pistorius we`re talking about. He`s very aware of what he`s done.

GRACE: Well, I understand he may be longing for her, but according to our reports, he`s been dating a teenager and been going out with the teenage girl dressed in disguise. Here she is, his new girlfriend. I guess he`s not longing for Reeva anymore.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) petrified screams and shouts.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How do you plead?

PISTORIUS: Not guilty, my lady.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The officer said Pistorius aimed his gun at the toilet, pointing out that he had to turn and fire at an angle in order to hit the toilet.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was a very emotional situation.


GRACE: Right now, an Olympic icon in court, crying, claiming that he misses his girlfriend, and he gunned her down by accident thinking she was an intruder.

Liz, as we`re talking, let`s show that reenactment to the viewers.

Back to Robyn Curnow, anchor, international correspondent, joining us. She`s been in court throughout. You know, I know that he seems sad, that he was longing for Reeva, who is now dead. So why is he dating a teenager? He seemed to get over that grief thing pretty quickly.

911 OPERATOR: You know what? It`s a subjective argument. I mean, you can`t ask me that. You can`t ask him that because he`s not going to answer that question. It`s based on one report. We don`t know if that`s true. I mean, it`s just not something CNN can verify, whether he`s dating a teenager or not.

And really, frankly, does it matter?

GRACE: It does to me.

911 OPERATOR: The fact is that he`s here a year later, trying to defend himself. Same thing -- some (INAUDIBLE) you know, South Africa, USA, you`re innocent until you`re proven guilty. Absolutely, he shot and killed Reeva Steenkamp. He must pay for the consequences, say South Africans. But the question here is, was it murder or was it a mistake? And it`s only day one of that.

GRACE: To Christo Taoushiani. Christo, you were raised in South -- you were raised in the same area, and lived in fear. Will the high crime rate in that area factor into this trial? And of course, we all know everyone is innocent until proven guilty, but thank you, Robyn, for repeating that.

So what about the crime rate, Christo?

CHRISTO TAOUSHIANI, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Well, yes, Nancy. You have to understand that South Africa is very, very different than here. Your suburbs, even though they look peaceful and calm, are absolutely not. You`re living surrounded by high, massive walls, electric fences...

GRACE: So you`re suggesting that the crime rate somehow justifies this unarmed woman being shot multiple times as she`s cowering in the bathroom and her lover is blasting her to smithereens. OK, you know what? Go with that. We`ll see how far that goes with the jury.

When we come back, live, suburban Tanglewild, a 2-year-old little girl, Kelsey, dead. Doctors say it looks as if she`s been struck by a car traveling about 40 MPH. But tonight, there was no car accident. Kelsey was beaten to death. Mommy caught on tape.


GRACE: And now, suburban Tangle Wild (ph), a little girl Kelsey dead. Doctors say it looks like she was struck by a car traveling almost 40 mph. But tonight we learned there was no car accident. Little Kelsey was beaten to death. That`s how bad her injuries were. It looked as though she was hit by a car going 40 mph.

Mommy caught on tape showing absolutely no remorse or sympathy for her two-year-old little girl. In fact, mommy makes plans as she`s talking to police to go out and party hardy with her girlfriends the night her daughter pronounced dead.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s two years old.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is she unconscious?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t know. Her mom is crying that she`s not breathing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She had suffered such severe internal injuries and was basically just slowing dying from those injuries.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators say when Hatchall (ph) was questioned about her daughter, she showed no emotion and even took a call from a friend saying when the interview with detectives was over, they could go out together.


GRACE: That is the mom in court. And let me tell you, when police were speaking to her, she showed no remorse whatsoever. In fact, she made plans on the phone to go out with her girlfriends the night the baby, her child, is pronounced dead. To Nick Scott, reporter, KMAS. Nick, what happened?

NICK SCOTT, KMAS: Well, hello, Nancy, and thank you for having me on your program.

GRACE: Thank you.

SCOTT: I guess that`s the big question, what happens in a home, a ranch style dwelling, in a working neighborhood southeast of the state capital here in Washington state, and this phone call comes in at 1:00 in the morning. The girl is unconscious, and there were signs, Nancy, that there may have been trouble in this home, but apparently the mother didn`t heed the signs of not only those living in the home with her, family members, to call a doctor to seek care for this two-year-old.

GRACE: Oh, my stars, look at this. The baby has on the little pink pants. I don`t even know what this child went through before she was killed. Nick Scott also with me taking your calls, KMAS.

Justin Freiman, what can you tell me about the mom making plans to go out with girlfriends the night the baby is pronounced dead?

FREIMAN: That`s right, Nancy. Can you believe it? While she`s being interviewed by police about the death of her own daughter, she takes a call from her friend and tells a friend, hey, you know, when this is done, we can go out.

GRACE: It`s still on. I`m having a hard time getting my mind around it. To Dr. Bill Manion, medical examiner, forensic pathologist. Dr. Manion, you have reviewed her injuries. At first doctors thought she had been hit by a car about 40 mph, a two-year-old child. But she was beaten to death, doctor.

MANION: Yes. When you have blunt force injuries in the abdomen, lacerated liver, a fractured pancreas, spleen, those are injuries like you would see from a car accident. So the pathologist immediately felt this was child abuse (inaudible) and the child was beaten about the abdomen.

GRACE: I just can`t even understand, the mom doing this, hurting this child in this way. And Justin Freiman, this wasn`t the first time. When they got there, she had on this little cast.

FREIMAN: That`s right, Nancy. Just a few months prior, she had actually broken her leg and she was treated at a local hospital, but they had assumed at that point it was just from a fall.

GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining me Randy Zelin out of New York, and Hugo Rodriguez, defense attorney out of Miami. All right, Rodriguez, what`s your defense?

RODRIGUEZ: We don`t know enough yet, but I thought --

GRACE: What do you mean, we don`t know enough yet?

RODRIGUEZ: We had this conversation several years ago when we spoke about Casey Anthony. We have the same situation. We don`t know enough yet.

GRACE: Okay, the baby is dead, the mom was with the baby at the time that she was injured, and Zelin, the cops are trying to talk to her, her baby is pronounced dead, and she`s on the phone making plans to go out to bars that night with her girlfriends. What am I missing, Zelin?

ZELIN: What you`re missing, first of all, what you`re missing is evidence, and second of all, while this is horrific, I can`t even imagine it. We still live in a world of evidence. And if every time someone broke down hysterically and put the police on a wild goose chase, if that was an indicator that they did nothing wrong, the jails would be a lot less crowded.

GRACE: Let`s just narrow this down. To Marc Klaas, president and founder of Klaas Kids foundation. We know she wasn`t out and got in a bar fight. I think we can agree on that. We know there was no intruder in the home. There has been no evidence of that whatsoever. We know that mommy was the key chief caretaker, and we know mommy is on the phone. Mark, can you imagine the night your little girl Polly went missing, for you to be -- or when they found Polly and discovered she had been killed that you`re on the phone making plans to go out with your guy friends to a bar, saying, hold on, we`ll catch up later, it`s still on? Are you kidding me?

KLAAS: That`s a great question. Are you kidding me? Of course not, Nancy. Even as you are talking about this case, it`s absolutely cringeworthy the torture that this child endured at the hands of what is obviously a sociopathic or psychopathic mother.

And I think there is an apt punishment for this kind of a crime that exists only in the states of New Jersey and New York, and it`s called Joan`s law. It is very simple. It says that if you kill a child, you will die in prison.

GRACE: I`m so beside myself. Dr. Ramani Durvasula, I know it`s my job to read these files and to report on them. But when I read this and I look at that little girl in that cast, I want to tear that mother from limb to limb. Listen, Dr. Ramani, contusions to kidney and large intestine, blunt force trauma. Contusions on face, arms, hands, abdomen and head. Her injuries are being compared to a car crash, like she was hit by a car at about 40 miles an hour. That`s how bad this child was beaten.

DURVASULA: Nancy, we can`t get our head around this. I`m a mother, too, and I look at this and I feel sick. At the end of the day, what you have here is a girl who was horribly abused, and you have got a mother who is showing no emotion and no remorse. We`re still determining whether she is responsible. And that is something no one can get their heads around. Unfortunately, we don`t determine whether people are prepared to have kids or should even have kids, and here is a case of someone who is showing no appropriate emotion, in light of this, making plans with her friends, really showing nothing. And that is the piece that really concerns me as a psychologist. If you`re feeling this, and it seems like you`ve got, hey, this is my exit card, I can go do something else. Not OK.

GRACE: All I know is reports are she`s on the phone with her friends planning to go out for drinks. You know what, you better call Satan and see what they`re serving in hell tonight!



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (inaudible) her nose and her mouse, I don`t know what to do.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s okay. We`re going to give her two breaths. You need to lift her chin back and open it up and put your mouth over hers and give her two more breaths. And then we`re going to do compressions again, okay? 1, 2.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do 30 more just like this, one, two, three, four, five.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why hasn`t the [ bleep ] ambulance come?


GRACE: The lawyers, the defense bar represented tonight by Hugo Rodriguez and Randy Zelin, would have you believe that it is nothing, it is not probative whatsoever that when the mom discovers that her child is pronounced dead, the two-year-old baby girl, the one that had on a cast when the EMTs got there, they think it means nothing that mom is on the phone planning to go out with her girlfriends as her baby is pronounced dead. It means a lot to me. But let`s take a listen to the 911 calls and see what we can learn. Take a listen.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Okay, and what do you need an ambulance for?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My little cousin. I don`t know what`s wrong, she isn`t breathing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. We need to start CPR. How old is she?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s two years old.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is she unconscious?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t know. Her mom is crying because she`s not breathing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Okay, we need to start CPR. Can you go over to her?

Are you there?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Put her on a hard -- is she breathing?



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, that`s her mother.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ma`am, you need to open her chest, open her shirt up, and then pinch her nose. And with your other hand, you want to lift her chin, and tilt her head back, and cover her mouth completely and give her two breaths. Do that. Are you doing that?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can`t do it, I`m taking off her clothes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You don`t need to take off all her clothes, OK, just her shirt.


GRACE: Justin Freiman, after all that and the mom was allegedly crying at the time, isn`t it true she did not even ride in the ambulance with her child?

FREIMAN: That`s right, Nancy, she did not go in the ambulance with her child, who was basically dead.

GRACE: Nick Scott joining us, KMAS. Nick Scott, is it true the mom did not even go with the little girl in the ambulance?

SCOTT: That`s what we understand, and you talked about it, Nancy. When she was first contacted by detectives, laughing, joking, one detective described it as being jovial with them on the way to the sheriff`s office and even while being interviewed.

GRACE: Wait, wait, wait. What, now? The mom was laughing and joking? When is this, Nick Scott?

SCOTT: Well, this is on the way to the sheriff`s office to be interviewed. And while being interviewed.

GRACE: Laughing and joking. You know what, Nick Scott is joining me from KMAS. We are taking your calls. I recall when John David, my son, hurt his foot, and one of the times he hurt his foot. And they do an x-ray and they always say, oh, you can leave, you can leave, you can leave. You`re going to get x-rays and it`s not good for you. You know what? It would be -- they would have to take my cold, dead body away from him or my daughter. I`m not going to leave him alone in some dark room with a big machine around them, and they would be afraid and start crying, no way. The mom couldn`t even go with the little girl in the ambulance?

SCOTT: But she did go with the sheriff`s detectives to be interviewed. And one thing the prosecutors brought up in court when she finally did appear and was charged with the charges of second degree murder and first-degree criminal mistreatment, the prosecutors asked for a rather high bail to keep her incarcerated because she already had a passport in hand. Not only was she planning to go out with a friend that evening, but she was planning on moving to Mexico to join a boyfriend, we understand.

GRACE: Nick, a question. You said that there were signs, that there were signs within the home that something was amiss. I`m almost afraid to ask, but what did you mean by that?

SCOTT: You had mentioned and one of your experts mentioned she had a cast on from a broken leg suffered last November. Certainly there were detectives reporting to us that the death was suspicious right from the beginning. They noticed the bruising. The autopsy confirmed a fractured skull, lacerations and bruising to the kidneys and intestines. And certainly the simple fact that the family and the second family -- there was two families living in this home, a total of six children -- of course, the victim, the five others are now in protective custody. But the probable cause affidavit said the girl had been sick for days leading up to her death. And the mother never had her checked by a doctor.

GRACE: Absolutely horrible with so many people aware that this child was being mistreated. Everyone, when we come back to the Washington suburbs specifically, the Little Sisters of the Poor convent. A newborn baby boy smothered to death inside the nunnery. Did a 26-year-old nun smother the baby dead so the other sisters wouldn`t hear the baby cry and find out she had had sex? Tonight, the killer nun.


GRACE: And now to the Washington suburbs, specifically the Little Sisters of the Poor convent. A newborn baby boy smothered to death inside the nunnery. Did a 26-year-old nun smother the baby dead so the other sisters would not hear the baby boy crying and figure out that she had had sex. What? Having sex is, what, worse than murder? Tonight, the killer nun.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Authorities say a 26-year-old nun in training killed her newborn baby by smothering him to death. Why? Police believe the woman didn`t want the other sisters to know she had engaged in sexual activity. Authorities say the woman allegedly gives birth in her room in the convent, and then holds a blanket over the baby boy`s mouth for two to three minutes, killing him.


GRACE: Well, if you are in shock like I was when you heard that a nun, a nun had allegedly smothered an infant to death inside the nunnery so that other nuns wouldn`t find out she had had sex -- to Keith Alexander, crime reporter with the Washington Post, Keith, thank you for being with us. It`s very shocking to hear that an infant was smothered to death inside a nunnery.

KEITH ALEXANDER, WASHINGTON POST: Nancy, this is amazing. This is a modern-day tale of "Agnes of God," is it not? She comes to Washington, D.C. with a secret. She wants to be a nun, but she has a secret. The secret, she had sex. Not only did she have sex, but she was pregnant. On October 5th she came to Washington, D.C., joined the convent, but October 10th, five days later, she gave birth to a baby boy whom she named Joseph.

GRACE: Clark Goldband, what more do we know?

GOLDBAND: Disturbing information from law enforcement. When they searched her convent room, they not only found bloody clothes and tissues, but they also found birth fluids, the placenta, and even the umbilical cord was attached to the placenta. Nancy, law enforcement, finding it off to the side in a trash pale.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police said 26-year-old Sosaphine Amoa (ph) told police she didn`t know she was pregnant. Allegedly told detectives she heard the child cry for two to three minutes, and then nothing. So she wrapped the child, placed the child on her bed --


GRACE: An infant child smothered to death inside a nunnery? To Father Michael Manning, Catholic priest and host of "Word in the World." Father, thank you for being with us. Father, how can it be so upside down that having sex is perceived to be worse than killing a child?

FATHER MICHAEL MANNING, "WORD IN THE WORLD": Well, of course it isn`t. I think you need to be clear that this is not a story about a nun killer. This is a young girl who decides that she would like to become a nun. And in a way that is very deceptive, she deceives all of the sisters there and comes for a look-see, if you will, to see what it`s like to be a nun. And they brought her there with the hope that maybe this would be what she would be.

This is not a matter of her having committed her life to Jesus as a nun. This is someone who was just observing that, and filled with a lie, a serious, serious lie.

GRACE: Back to Clark Goldband, what more can you tell me, Clark?

GOLDBAND: Here`s the thing. According to law enforcement, they say that this nun-to-be actually told a nun that she found the child outside on the sidewalk and brought it in. It wasn`t until about 24 hour later after the child was inside, it turns out they took the dead baby to the hospital, and then that`s when law enforcement started asking questions.

GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Randy Zelin and Hugo Rodriguez. To both of you, I would tend to go easier on a nun thinking they devoted their life to good works, but not in the face of a murder, of smothering the child. And to you, Rodriguez, before you get tuned up, the child was over 6 pounds. It was healthy at birth.

RODRIGUEZ: It`s unfortunate it occurred, Nancy. We don`t know--

GRACE: Unfortunate that it occurred? That sounds like an accident. She smothered it to death.

RODRIGUEZ: This woman obviously has a lot going on with her. We know that postpartum is a clinical depression. I cannot speak for her. She obviously was regretful. She was ashamed. She regretful in the fact that she`s admitted --

GRACE: Well, I`m sure you know, Randy Zelin, both of you, actually, that one may immediately regret the deed, but that does not change the mens rea, the intent at the time of the act, Zelin.

ZELIN: What it does, it takes a case that, wow, somebody charges murder one and it`s an overcharge. It removes the premeditation and makes it manslaughter.

GRACE: You know what? Let`s stop and a special thank you to Father Michael Manning. Let`s stop and remember American hero, Marine Lance Corporal Michael L. Freeman Jr. Just 21. Purple Heart, Combat Action Ribbon, Afghanistan Campaign Medal. An outdoorsman, loved fishing. Parents Michael and Christine, widow Stephanie. Michael L. Freeman Jr. American hero.

Drew up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.