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Nancy Grace
Mom Drives Van With Kids Into Ocean; Search For Missing Hayley Howard
Aired March 05, 2014 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live to Daytona Beach with breaking news. A 31-year-old mom of three plows her minivan into the ocean as her three little children, ages 3, 9 and 10, all buckled in, trapped in the Honda minivan, scream, Mommy`s trying to kill us! We have the video!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My mom is trying to kill us. Please help!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The mom took her vehicle and accelerated towards the water.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Inside, three kids, ages 10, 9 and 3.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A little kid in the back waving his arms around, like, screaming, Help! Help us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live, St. Tammany suburbs. At the height of Mardi Gras, a teen girl, an honor student, leaves school, gets a flat tire. She`s never seen again. What do pings on her cell phone reveal? Is this teen girl lost in the sauce of the topless, drunken Mardi Gras revelry? Tonight, where is Hayley?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Spread the word about missing 19-year-old Hayley Howard.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Anything anyone knows, please, please call.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tracked down the last people to see her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... try and isolate the location that -- that she was last seen.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Find Hayley safe.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We try to hold our heads up and search.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And to Lake Worth, a 41-year-old dad charged with homicide when his 3-year-old little girl, Zuri (ph), fatally shoots herself in the head with Daddy`s loaded pistol. Daddy said he leaves the loaded gun by the door so he wouldn`t forget it, that he needs a loaded gun because he works at Fro-Yo (ph), a frozen yogurt shop.
He needs to be armed to sell yogurt? Well, if that`s not bad enough, this is not the first, second, but the third time this baby gets her hands on a loaded pistol. Mommy wakes up one morning with Zuri pointing the gun at her face. Another time, Zuri playing with the loaded gun in the laundry basket. And they`re surprised the baby`s dead? I`m only surprised Mommy`s not charged with homicide, too!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The tragic story unfolded (INAUDIBLE) 3-year-old daughter, Zuri, accidentally fatally shot herself in the head with his gun inside their Lake Worth home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... that he left the loaded Kotech (ph) .9- millimeter on the table while getting dressed for work.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You have to be very careful with children.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And "Real Housewife" today turned real convict tonight, Teresa Giudice and her big flirt of a husband busted after feds hone in on their lavish lifestyle, a $5 million mansion, a $30,000 to $50,000 birthday party for their little girl? They`re caught red-handed lying on federal forms to get even more money. They both admit under oath they`re guilty.
Tonight -- whoa! Is that gold-plated furniture? We uncover details of the Giudices` shocking opulent spending habits, spending more on one shopping spree than most people make in a year. But now they`re headed to the big house, with no chandeliers. The real shocker tonight, will they get a sweetheart deal with just house arrest? Punishment? Living in a $5 million mansion? That`s the punishment?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The prison time deal looming for the couple.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have accountants, and we have -- you know, we hire people to do all this stuff.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s facing possible deportation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re not a U.S. citizen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I am. I have a green card.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And upscale tony Lincoln Park suburbs, a spoiled brat teen girl sues her retired police chief dad and mom for thousands, claiming they kick her out when she refuses to follow the rules. She`s suing for private school money, living, transportation expenses, college tuition, even legal fees.
Listen, little girl, you get all that only if you follow the rules, not if you`re a big brat that take your parents to court and humiliate them. You better get a job at McDonald`s and find a roommate and learn to take the (INAUDIBLE) (INAUDIBLE) the street and turn the corner because your car is repo-ed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Honor student and cheerleader...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rachel Canning (ph) is suing her parents...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... a dispute over curfews and chores.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fights over a boyfriend, angry, cursing exchanges...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re being sued by our child. I`m dumbfounded.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Suing him to pay for her living expenses and her college education.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. Live to Daytona Beach, a 31-year-old mother of three plows her minivan into the surf, into the ocean with her three little children trapped inside, buckled in their seatbelts screaming, Mommy`s trying to kill us! We have the video.
Take a look at this. Now, keep watching. Liz, keep rolling on this because if you keep watching, you ultimately see the mom gets out. She saves herself and starts walking away from the car, leaving her three children in the car.
These rescuers, who are good Samaritans, manage to save the children, risking their own lives, carrying the children through the surf as the minivan floats out to sea, and one of the children yells -- there`s Mommy. She doesn`t have a baby, a toddler, nobody. She`s saving herself.
The children start screaming, There`s a baby in there! There`s a baby in there! And the rescuers don`t see a baby. They go back, and yes, there is a baby still strapped in the car, and they get the little baby out.
Straight out to Robert Alonso, news reporter, WNDB. Who is this woman? What happened, Robert?
ROBERT ALONSO, WNDB (via telephone): Well, that`s the question everyone wants to know right now, Nancy. We`re not sure who she is. Volusia County sheriff`s office, local law enforcement agency here, literally just assumed control of the investigation this morning, Nancy.
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa! Robert! Robert, hold on. Robert Alonso, WNDB, we`re going straight to the police presser.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At this time, yes, she still is in the hospital and is under investigation. We have a child protection team at this time interviewing the children. And we`re looking to see if criminal charges are going to be appropriate, or if this is a medical issue. At this time, we don`t know. It`s early in the investigation, but we want to get to the bottom of it to determine which is the correct way to go about it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is she cooperating? (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m sorry?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is she cooperating? What is she telling you guys at this point?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At this time, I don`t know exactly what`s being said with her. Our people are interviewing the children and other witnesses at this time. It`ll take a little bit of time before we get back to her again.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, what will determine -- if you do file criminal charges, what would determine that that is, indeed, appropriate?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, one thing is we`ll look at it. Was there intent? We have to determine that. We`ll also be in contact and we are in contact with the state attorney`s office. They are involved with this. So we want to make sure, whether we have a criminal intent involved with this, could this be some kind of a medical crisis? We have to look into all of those things to determine, to make sure that we`re going the right direction with it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When we arrived on the scene, there was -- when we arrived on the scene, there was already two bystanders in the water that were actually making attempts to rescue them out of the vehicle.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK, we`ll take you right back to that police presser as soon as we start hearing something about the actual -- the actual act, where the mom, according to all the witnesses, is driving along -- and this is on Daytona Beach, where you can actually drive your vehicle on the sand, all right? And she was at, I believe, Silver Beach is the name of that particular location along Daytona Beach. And she takes a hard turn, an obvious intentional hard turn straight into the water. She can get out, but her children are all strapped in.
Back to Robert Alonso with WNDB. We just heard part of the police presser, where they`re saying that she is from out of state. They`re not releasing a lot of information right now. But what can you tell me, Robert? What did the witnesses see while Mommy drives her children into the ocean in a minivan?
ALONSO: Right. And you can actually hear some of that in the video that you just ran of the car driving into the water. We do know that woman is from -- well, the vehicle, anyway, the black Honda Odyssey that drove into the water -- it`s from -- it had South Carolina tags on it. So other than that, though, we really don`t know a whole lot about who she is, Nancy.
The Volusia County sheriff`s office has really not released a whole lot of information at this point. The biggest reason why is because they literally just assumed control of the investigation this morning. Up until this morning, it was actually in the hands of the Volusia County Beach Safety and Ocean Rescue. It`s actually a separate law enforcement agency that literally patrols the entire length of the beaches here in Volusia County, and they normally handle these types of situations, at least initially.
Now that the sheriff`s office is being brought in, though, one of the biggest questions that`s being asked -- and I think you heard a little bit of it there in the press conference -- is whether any criminal charges will be filed. And my suspicion is that`s what the sheriff`s office...
GRACE: I agree. I agree. That`s why the sheriff`s office is being brought in, Robert Alonso. Stay with me, Robert.
Also with me, Joe Gomez, investigative reporter, KRLD. What more do you know, Joe?
JOE GOMEZ, KRLD: Well, Nancy, we understand that this mother of three apparently just made a hard turn into the ocean with her children in the back. One child, the witnesses say, was screaming, Help, Mommy`s trying to kill us, waving her arms in the air.
I mean, you can see on the video the waves pounding the car as the mother dives out of the vehicle, bellyflops into the ocean. The ocean almost takes the car out into the sea. And luckily, bystanders nearby were able to rescue the children. The mother looked dazed and confused.
My question is, what was going through her mind? What could have possibly led her...
GRACE: Well, I can tell...
GOMEZ: ... to drive her car into the ocean?
GRACE: ... you this much, Joe Gomez. She had the wherewithal to save herself and start walking. There`s Mommy. She dives out, does a bellyflop, and she heads for the sand. Forget those children that are strapped in the car in their seatbelts.
Unleash the lawyers. Joining me out of New York, Gary Casimir. Also, out of Atlanta, veteran defense attorney Randy Kessler. All right, Kessler, what`s your defense?
RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, first of all, I like that the sheriff is saying, We`ve got to figure out what her intent was. No one knows what her intent was.
GRACE: Up to the jury. Thank you.
KESSLER: The truth of the matter is, the fact that she walked away shows that she wasn`t in her right state of mind.
GRACE: Really?
KESSLER: She knows that she`s in a public place...
GRACE: Because that`s just what Susan Smith did.
KESSLER: Right. But you know what? Susan Smith, after a lot of investigation, they figured out she had mental illnesses, and that is probably going to be the defense. The one concerning factor...
GRACE: She did not have mental issues. She`s still behind bars right now, and it`s not a mental facility.
KESSLER: She...
GRACE: Her mental issue is she wanted to get rid of her children to be with her boyfriend. That was her mental issue.
KESSLER: I think the worst problem that this case has is why did the kids say, Mommy`s trying to kill us? That`s res gestae. Those might be...
GRACE: Exactly.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa! Don`t be throwing Latin terms around on everybody. Not everybody knows what res gestae, as it`s correctly pronounced, is. So I`ll let you explain that in English, not Latin, Kessler.
KESSLER: OK. If somebody says something just on the spur of the moment, then it is more admissible than if somebody...
GRACE: At the moment...
KESSLER: Of the act.
GRACE: ... of the incident.
KESSLER: Right.
GRACE: OK, so Kessler, you bring up a good point. The children`s little arms are coming out of the window, going, Mommy`s trying to kill us.
And Gary Casimir, not only that, she`s driving along at a straight -- you know, on the path of the beach, and suddenly takes a hard turn...
GARY CASIMIR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Absolutely.
GRACE: ... right into the water. She is able to save herself. That is not a medical condition.
CASIMIR: She`s going to have a difficult time proving that defense, Kessler, in court. I think the prosecutor here -- I mean, you know Daytona Beach. This is a very well-known strip. The cars go straight. Turning into it is a clear sign that it was definitive and a thought-out process. Having the kids screaming -- not only -- you`re not talking about just res gestae. Something was said to the kids to lead them to believe that, Mommy is going to kill me. Mommy...
GRACE: Yes, and that`s what Kessler...
CASIMIR: ... is attempting to take my life.
GRACE: ... just said. Back to Robert Alonso. Casimir and Kessler are right about that, Robert, WNDB. The children had to have a reason for yelling out the window, Mommy`s trying to -- Mommy`s going to kill us!
ALONSO: Yes, you would think...
GRACE: I mean, I have my children in the back seat all the time in our minivan. My children don`t let the window down and scream out, Mommy`s trying to kill us. She had to say or do something -- out to you, Michael Christian -- to make them say that. Mommy had to do or say something!
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Yes, that certainly makes sense, Nancy. This car did not drive itself into the water. These children were definitely fearful. And one of the rescuers said that when the woman walked away from the van that she just had this kind of spaced-out look on her face. He said she didn`t say a word. She didn`t tell us anything about the baby. It just was an awful, blank look.
GRACE: Everyone, when we come back, at the height of Mardi Gras, a teen girl, an honor student, leaves school, gets a flat tire. She`s never seen again. Is Hayley lost in the sauce of the topless, drunken Mardi Gras revelry?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: And now live, St. Tammany suburbs. At the height of Mardi Gras, a teen honor student leaves school, gets a flat tire, never seen again. What do pings on her cell phone reveal tonight? Is this teen girl lost in the sauce of the topless, drunken Mardi Gras revelry? Tonight, where is honor student Hayley?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Spread the word about missing 19-year-old Hayley Howard.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wanting to find our daughter safe and sound. We miss her, and you know, anything anybody knows, please, please call.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I try and isolate a location that she was last seen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The last place Hayley`s cell phone was picked up was near Irish Bayou.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Find Hayley safe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tonight, we are learning more about that cell phone and the pings on that cell phone. But joining me right now, special guest Hayley`s father, Jim Howard.
Jim, thank you for being with us. What are police telling you at this hour about your girl?
JIM HOWARD, FATHER (via telephone): Pretty much the same thing. We`re looking for her cell phone right now at the Irish Bayou Mishou (ph) area.
GRACE: Everyone, you are seeing a shot of Hayley Howard, a teen girl who is dressed -- she goes to work at a restaurant where they dress up in Mardi Gras outfits at work that day. She leaves. She`s gone to classes. She gets a flat tire, calls her boyfriend to say someone is helping her with the flat. She`s never seen again. Jim Howard, her father, is joining us. Everyone, tip line, 504-821-2222.
Mr. Howard, I understand that police are searching for a white iPhone with a cracked front?
HOWARD: Yes, ma`am. And it has an ivory case with an elephant on it, so...
GRACE: Tell me about Hayley. Jim, tell me about...
HOWARD: We have a lot of volunteers out here looking due to social media. So we want to -- I want to say thank you to everybody out here, and you know, God bless everybody.
GRACE: Guys, with me is Hayley`s father. And can you imagine what he is going through, what Hayley`s family is going through right now? They do everything right raising this girl. She`s a straight-A honor student. She has a job. She is leaving after work and after school, gets a flat tire, calls her boyfriend, says, Somebody`s helping me. She`s never seen again.
Very quickly to Michelle Southern, assistant news director, Louisiana Radio Network. Michelle, what more do we know about the pings on her cell phone?
MICHELLE SOUTHERN, LOUISIANA RADIO NEWS NETWORK (via telephone): Well, pretty much just the same. You know, her cell phone was pinged 2:00 AM Saturday morning at UNO, where she was last seen. And then where the search was going on today at Irish Bayou, in that area, was when it was last pinged at 6:00 AM, which was three hours after she was last seen, you know, on the campus of UNO.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Find Hayley safe. The dean`s list student who was recently accepted into pharmacy school was headed to classes at UNO, then to work uptown.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We just got to have faith, you know, in God that all this will work out.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Howard was last seen at this dorm dropping off a friend.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Trying to figure out where the 19-year-old could be.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tonight, let`s take a look at her car. Police are looking for that car and a white iPhone with a cracked front. It is a 2002 silver Toyota Corolla, Louisiana plates X-B-brother-P-paul-643, and that white iPhone.
Clark Goldband, what more can you tell me about these pings?
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yes, Nancy, some new information we just received. Apparently, the last phone call was received at 2:24, and it wasn`t short. It lasted about 12 minutes. And as you can see on this map behind me, she was on the move. So for 12 minutes, she`s traveling back towards her home...
GRACE: How do you know she`s on the move, Clark?
GOLDBAND: Well, that`s what we`re hearing from family members...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... a couple different towers.
GOLDBAND: Right, that that phone was moving, so the activity of the pings could be traced. But after that 12-minute conversation...
GRACE: But there`s something I don`t understand, Clark. Sorry to interrupt, but you`re telling me that during these pings, while she`s moving, she`s still alive, that she`s talking on the phone. We know she`s on the phone call as we`re getting these pings, when she`s crossing that bridge?
GOLDBAND: That is thought to be the call with the boyfriend telling her (sic) about that flat tire situation. After that 12-minute call, Nancy, we don`t get the next ping until all the way over here by the Irish Bayou, where the search is taking place. And unfortunately, that`s where the cell phone trail appears to run cold.
GRACE: Back to Jim Howard. This is Hayley`s father. Explain this. So does -- do we know she`s still on the phone call when she makes it across that bridge, Mr. Howard?
HOWARD: No, ma`am. She`s -- we`re presuming that she had got the flat repaired and then takes off from there, and you know, was on the phone. And then she hangs up the phone, and then roughly about 3:03 AM, the ping -- the phone is located between Mishou and Irish Bayou, between the two cell towers there. There`s no data or information going across the phone, so they`re not able to pinpoint it -- you know, get an accurate location because there`s no data being used.
GRACE: Everyone, this is at the height of Mardi Gras, when police are overloaded. Has this girl`s disappearance gotten lost in the sauce at Louisiana Mardi Gras?
Mr. Howard, what do you want the viewers to know tonight? How can they help?
HOWARD: Well, they can help -- if anybody, you know, either passed by while Hayley was getting the flat changed, or the people that may have helped her, you know, come forward. We just need a lead. We need a clue.
Somebody had to have seen that. I was able to look at some surveillance video from a college that`s right around where the flat occurred, and it did show some cars traveling at that time. But however, the surveillance video does not shoot the location where I was told she actually was on the phone, you know, where the flat occurred.
GRACE: Right. Everyone, with me, Jim Howard. This is Hayley`s father. Can you imagine the position that he is in right now, asking for your help? His daughter, an honor student, in school, working, gets a flat tire. She`s never seen again. And tonight, he is asking you, along with us, for your help. The tip line is 504-821-2222.
When we come back, a 41-year-old dad charged with homicide when his 3- year-old little girl, Zuri, fatally shoots herself in the head with Daddy`s loaded pistol.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: And now live to Lake Worth. A 41-year-old father charged with homicide when his three-year-old little girl Zuri fatally shoots herself in the head with daddy`s loaded pistol. And if that`s not bad enough, this is not the first, second, but the third time the baby gets her hand on a loaded pistol in the home. And now they`re surprised she shoots herself? I`m only surprised mommy is not charged with homicide, too.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The father told investigators that his daughter shot herself while he got dressed for work in another room. The affidavit also revealed deputies found another loaded pistol adjacent to a playpen and an unloaded shotgun in a closet.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t think this family needs any more (inaudible).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The affidavit mentioned at least two other incidents inside the home with somebody playing with a gun. In one case, someone told investigators they woke up with someone pointing a firearm at her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: What that is talking about in veiled words is that the mom apparently, reportedly, wakes up, and the little girl Zuri has a loaded gun pointed straight at mommy`s face. All right? On another occasion, according to reports, the little girl is in a laundry basket or gets a loaded gun out of a laundry basket and is playing with that. And the weapon in this case was a .9-millimeter KelTech. Beside the playpen, the pack and play, is a loaded Baretta. Now, the dad says he has a loaded gun because he works at a frozen yogurt -- a fro-yo and he makes bank deposits. But why does he have loaded guns in the home? Mommy and daddy knew the baby had been playing with the guns, and they leave the guns loaded sitting around the home. It`s almost more than I can take. Joe Malkin joining me, news director at WJNO. Joe, what do you know?
JOE MALKIN: The scary thing about this is, in addition to the three- year-old, there is apparently a 6- to 8-month-old sibling in the home as well. And no word on whether the Department of Children and Families here in Florida is going to do anything about that. But that`s kind of a scary thing when you think about it.
GRACE: Joe joining me from WJNO. This isn`t the first time a child has shot themselves in the home with daddy or mommy`s loaded weapon. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did this child get this weapon? Where did it come from?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The death of a five-year-old boy who got a hold of a semiautomatic 40-caliber pistol and shot himself in the head.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators say Greenhill put his loaded 40- caliber handgun in his bedroom closet unlocked, and within 4 minutes, the little toddler had shot himself in the face and died.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A five-year-old boy picked up a .22-caliber rifle and shot and killed his two-year-old sister, Carol.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He left his loaded handgun in his nightstand, which resulted in his four-year-old son shooting himself in the face.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A four-year-old son of a Pennsylvania state trooper accidentally shot himself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Right now the father facing homicide charges, and we`re getting flooded with phone calls and e-mails, people on both sides of the fence. Very quickly to Dr. Nina Radcliffe, a physician joining us out of New York. Dr. Nina, thank you for being with us. The father said he thought it was safe to leave a loaded Kel-Tec in the home because of the trigger pull. The trigger pull, according to him, was 10 pounds. At three years old, my children could pick up something that`s 10 pounds.
DR. NINA RADCLIFFE: Absolutely. I have a two-year-old and she can pick up something that`s 10 pounds. And I think this is a Swiss cheese phenomenon, where the father is obviously stupid. He`s leaving a gun that is loaded, that`s not locked, and the child was able to pick it up and pull it. This is an awful tragedy.
GRACE: I think it`s a tragedy, but I also think it equals a homicide charge. Joining me, Randy Kessler, defense attorney, Atlanta, and Gary Casimir, defense attorney, New York. All right, what`s your defense?
GARY CASIMIR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I`ll tell you right now, I think he has experience with his daughter. He knows his daughter better. We`re not talking about picking things up, 10 pound things, we`re talking about the trigger, the ability to pull a 10-pound trigger. He`s seen his daughter unable to do this on two occasions.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa! No offense, but are you deaf, Casimir? Kessler, did you hear what he just said? He`s seen his daughter with a loaded gun on two earlier occasions. Right there that`s what we call under the law, Casimir, similar transactions, which means when this thing goes to trial on these homicide charges, this man is 41 years old, Kessler. He knows better, and we know that there are two other -- are you Kessler? You`re not Kessler? You`re Casimir. Similar transactions. That`s what I`m talking about.
KESSLER: The doctor`s diagnosis is probably right on. He`s stupid, but you don`t go to jail for being stupid, you go to jail for having the intent to commit a crime. Did his intend to commit a crime? Did his actions rise so high that it was negligent? Maybe, but he`s got a defense.
GRACE: To Joe Malkin joining us, news director, WJNO. Joel, another question. He is charged with homicide right now. Is he behind bars or no?
MALKIN: No, he was let out on his own recognizance. But the thing is, in Florida, there is a state law that says that if you have a child under 16 in the home that may gain access to a firearm, you`re supposed to keep that firearm in a locked container or secured with a trigger lock, and clearly, that wasn`t the case in this situation.
GRACE: Dr. Patricia Saunders, clinical psychologist, joining us. Doctor, it`s so good to see you. You know, doctor, I`m a victim of gun violence myself, so I am very loathe to have a gun in the home. I understand why people have them, but when you have a child and you leave the gun loaded by the pack and play, for Pete`s sake, one is by the door, and they`ve seen the child playing with the guns before? I`m not talking crime right now, I`m talking intent. This is more than negligence because they`ve been warned.
SAUNDERS: And it`s more than stupidity. This father is obviously obsessed with weapons, with guns, and his failure in judgment is obvious, and he doesn`t lock the pistol. So I would assume this is a totally self- absorbed, self-involved man who doesn`t give a damn about his child.
GRACE: You know, Casimir and Kessler, you could take a little law lesson from Patricia Saunders.
When we come back, real housewife turns real convict. Teresa Giudice and her husband Joe busted, admitting under oath that they`re guilty. Tonight we uncover details of their shocking spending habits. But now in the last hours, we learn they`re set to take a sweetheart deal, getting just house arrest in the $5 million mansion?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Real housewife today, real convict tonight. Teresa Giudice and her husband Joe busted. Feds honed in on their lavish lifestyle, both admitting under oath that they are guilty. Tonight we uncover the same details the feds found of their shocking and opulent spending habits. But the real shocker is will they get a sweetheart deal with just house arrest? Punishment is living in a $5 million mansion? That`s the punishment?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my God.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why is this happening to me?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Okay. That looks like a big drunk to me. The Real Housewives of New Jersey. Bonnie Fuller is with us, the president and editor in chief of Hollywoodlife.com.
Bonnie, I went to your website and was stunned at what I saw, not that it was inaccurate, but what some of the things were there that you managed to dig up.
Let`s take a look. Liz, if you could roll -- $8,000 on curtains, 45,000 on wall hangings? Let`s move on. Oh, a Maserati. OK. All right. I`m going to have Joe`s attorney explain that to me in a moment, Miles Feinstein. A trailer, a boat. OK. Don`t have one of those. An ATV, don`t have one of those. There are even photos of gold-plated furniture, and I hear there are two vacation homes, one we have video of, one we haven`t found yet. Let`s listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: These are my (inaudible). When we first bought this house, it had this grand entrance. It had a fireplace right here, a double-sided fireplace, so Joe pretty much redid the whole house. I like it that it`s all one big space. This is where we hang out and just party.
Here`s the kitchen. Any time anyone walks through, I`m usually always in the kitchen, and this is usually how I greet them. And then they come around and I give them kisses.
This is my girls` bedroom. We do have four bedrooms, but they love -- this is our outside area. Right here is where we eat. Oh, Adriana, you`re cleaning your car? My girls just love to clean.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Please stop, please stop. That is the home, the vacation home on the water. As I`m talking to Bonnie Fuller and Miles Feinstein joining me, the attorney for Joe Giudice, let`s see the video of their real home. Not the other two vacation homes. Bonnie Fuller, are you surprised that they may get a sweetheart deal for house arrest?
BONNIE FULLER, HOLLYWOODLIFE.COM: I am surprised. They were facing quite a number of charges. On the other hand, what we`re hearing is that there is a very good chance that Joe will go to jail, that Teresa -- that the deal that they have struck may leave her free. Now, she may be under house arrest or she may be on probation. She`s hoping for that. But the other thing that they`ve got to worry about is that if Joe does four years, which he is up for, in jail, he could then face deportation after that.
GRACE: You know, isn`t it true they had a $60,000 shopping spree around the time they filed for bankruptcy, Bonnie?
FULLER: We have heard that there was a $60,000 shopping spree, $40,000 on furniture, and that another $8,800 on curtains. You were asking about wall hangings, well, $8,800 on curtains -- wait, no, another $45,000 on wall hangings. Yes, we have heard this as well, but Teresa has always been very open about how much she loves an extravagant lifestyle.
GRACE: With me, editor in chief of Radaronline.com, Dylan Howard. Did I just see a shot of a gold-plated chair and a shopping spree at Chanel in Europe?
DYLAN HOWARD, RADARONLINE: Nancy, this is not a surprise. We`ve known about their lavish lifestyle and how deep they were in hawk since 2009. This is a couple that filed for bankruptcy, and documents in that particular case showed the Giudices were $10 million in debt. The banks, credit card companies, lawyers, (inaudible), and even an in vitro fertilization clinic.
GRACE: Dylan Howard, Radaronline. Joining me right now, special guest, Miles Feinstein, attorney for Joe Giudice. Miles, thank you for joining me out of Clifton. Miles, isn`t it true they`re getting a sweetheart deal from the feds where they will serve house arrest in their $5 million mansion?
MILES FEINSTEIN, ATTORNEY FOR JOE GIUDICE: No, it`s not true, Nancy. First of all, nobody knows what the actual sentence will be. They did say 41 counts in the superseding indictment in the federal court, and Joe still has a state case, which has not come to fruition at this particular time. Joe faces, with the federal guidelines, which are advisory, not mandatory, 37 months to 46 months. Teresa faces 21 to 27 months.
GRACE: Miles, when you do a guilty plea, unless it`s a blind plea, there is usually an agreement. I`ll plead guilty in exchange for x sentence. So are you telling me, Miles, that their pleading guilty was not part of a deal? There is no agreement on the table?
FEINSTEIN: There is no agreement on the table, and I can tell you this, Nancy, I`m a former president of the Criminal Defense Lawyers of the state of New Jersey, the board of governors, the American Trial Lawyers Association. In the federal court in New Jersey, the judge will not commit -- they will in the state court, but not in the federal court -- to an exact amount.
GRACE: Everyone, when we come back, a spoiled brat teen girl sues her retired police chief mom and dad for thousands, claiming they kicked her out after she refused to follow their rules.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: A teen brat suing her parents for college tuition, for a $30,000 Volkswagen Jetta, for living expenses? She`s actually taken her parents to court? Jean Casarez, CNN legal correspondent. What?
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN LEGAL CORRESPONDENT: Nancy, it`s true, and it is an amazing case. This is an 18-year-old high school senior who is suing legally for -- she wants to be unemancipated. In other words, she wants to be within the control and sphere of her parents` influence, but she wants to live at her friend`s house and get money, child support. Money for her private high school Catholic school. Money for her college tuition. So that college fund can become hers. And it`s a very, very big legal battle at this point. And I was in the courtroom.
GRACE: You know, Jean, I`ve been doing a little addition. Of course, I`ve got a J.D., I`m not a mathematician, but a top of the line, brand-new Jetta is what she`s got. It`s about $30,000. She wants to go to the University of Delaware out of state, tuition and dorm, $41,000. She wants about $625 a week living expenses, legal fees, and she wants her parents to pay for her private Catholic school she`s been going to at about $13,000 a year.
Jean, the things she said to her mother, cursing at her mother, it`s on a phone message. Can I see Jean Casarez, please? Jean --
CASAREZ: I`m not going to read it. I`m not going to read it.
GRACE: It`s horrible.
CASAREZ: It`s unbelievable. And the judge said in the legal proceeding that -- I could not believe the vulgarity.
GRACE: (inaudible). She said that she wanted to s-h-i-t on her mother`s face. Now, here`s the rest of it, Jean. Is it true that at this private school she`s going to, $13,000 to $15,000 a year, she was truant with her boyfriend. So the parents say, all right. You can`t keep going out with the boyfriend. Or we going to take your car and your phone away. She kept going out with him, so they took it away, and she leaves. Now she`s suing them.
CASAREZ: That`s right. October 30th is the pivotal date. I`ve got to tell you the time line of this day, OK? She goes to a suspension hearing at her school, because it was the second time she was suspended. She gets finished with that. Her father takes her to work because she is suspended and she could do a little work for him. The boyfriend comes and picks her up. She leaves, goes to the boyfriend`s house. Boyfriend`s mother calls her mother to say, can you tell the school she`s at our house? No, she goes to school, and she alleges that she`s being abused by her family.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: With me, Jean Casarez and Dr. Patricia Saunders. Jean, back to the facts in this case. I`m just overwhelmed at them -- at this girl, spoiled brat. She also was coming home inebriated on weekends. The parents didn`t like that. She refused to follow their rules so she stomped out mad. How much money does she want, Jean?
CASAREZ: She wants $654 a week, which amounts to $2,600 a month, but she really wants access to her college fund, because her parents have been putting the money into the fund since she was born. And she`s applying for colleges now, so she wants their tax records, so she can put that on the application form. But she is saying that she was abandoned by her mother and father, constructive abandonment. Because of the abuse in the home she had to leave. But the Department of Child --
GRACE: Oh, abuse.
CASAREZ: -- Protection (inaudible) in New Jersey said it was unfounded.
GRACE: Right. DIFUS (ph) took a look, Dr. Pat, and Patricia Saunders, she claimed her mom once said the word porky or fat, and it gave her bulimia. Oh, just -- what a smirk. And not only that. She says her father was drunk once and kissed her inappropriately. She actually said that. Department of Family and Children Services investigated and found no merit.
SAUNDERS: I don`t think we`re talking about a spoiled brat. It`s not that often that we get to see baby psychopaths, but that`s what this young woman looks like.
GRACE: Baby psychopaths, I haven`t heard that yet. Jean Casarez, Patricia Saunders, thank you.
Let`s stop and remember American hero, Army Sergeant Joshua Lengstorf, 24, (inaudible), Oregon. Army Commendation Medal, Army Achievement Medal, National Defense Service Medal, loved the outdoors and football. Parents, Rhonda and Eric, stepparents Chuck and Lisa. Two brothers, widow, Jessie, daughter, Cadence. Joshua Lengstorf, American hero.
And tonight, a special good night from Pennsylvania and Georgia friends, Monica and Britney. Aren`t they beautiful? Drew up next. I`ll see you tomorrow, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
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