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Nancy Grace
Missing Maryland 11-Year-Old; Mom Vanishes on the Way to Walgreens; Woman Abandoned as Baby Searches for Mom; Burger King Baby; Group of School Children Caught Smoking Pot; A Death Row Story
Aired March 06, 2014 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news, tonight to the Northeast. A 33-year-old mom sets out on foot just a few blocks to Walgreens pharmacy. She`s got to get medicine. Her 2-year-old comes down with the flu. Mommy never seen again. Tonight, the desperate hunt for young mom Karla.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thirty-three-year-old Karla Vellagra-Garzon. She disappeared without a trace.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s really unbelievable because most of the people around this area know each other.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was desperate, walking to the store to buy medicine for her 2-year-old daughter, who had the flu. She never made it to the store, according to surveillance video.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And just in, we learn a woman struggling with her captor forced into a car trunk. As we go to air, we learn the car has just been spotted. We have obtained video of the perpetrator. The woman in the trunk!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Check out the video. A Virginia man is accused of allegedly kidnapping and locking her inside the trunk of his car. This was all caught on tape. When they asked Lopez why he put her there, he told police she didn`t want to move to Miami with him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, Pennsylvania suburbs, a mom gives birth, and within hours, abandons her baby girl on the floor of a Burger King bathroom. Tonight, that little girl`s desperate search for Mommy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KATHERYN DEPRILL, ABANDONED AS A BABY: I feel like there`s a piece of me missing.
Someone had heard me crying and they notified the staff. They came in and I was laying there on the floor. I just hope that I can see her and maybe give her a hug.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And to Sonora suburbs. A group of little 3rd-graders caught smoking pot -- 3rd-graders smoking pot in the boys` bathroom of the upscale northern California elementary school. Tonight, the youngest pot bust ever.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Three grade school students were caught smoking pot in a bathroom.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Third grade, and they have their own pipe?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Another student caught the three, two 8-year-olds and a 9-year-old children. Police were called to the school.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. A young mom sets out on foot, it`s just a few blocks away, to Walgreens. It`s right after dinnertime. Her 2-year-old comes down with the flu. She sets out for the medicine, the prescription called in. Mommy never seen again. Tonight, the desperate hunt for the young mom, Karla.
But everyone, first, I`m hearing in my ear right now there is an Amber Alert. It has just been issued for an 11-year-old little girl. Take a look at this girl, Caitlyn Marie Virts. She`s just 11 years old. She`s out of Dundalk, Maryland.
Now, according to the Amber Alert that has just been issued, she was last seen at home. She was at home with her mother, Bobbie Jo. Suddenly, there`s a call about a death in the home. When EMTs arrive, they find the mom, Bobbie Jo Virts, dead, dead on the floor, this child missing.
This is what we believe is happening. Right now, police on the lookout for a 1999 black Dodge Durango. Everyone, take a look at this girl. She`s just 11 years old. She weighs 50 pounds. She`s barely 5 feet tall. We believe her noncustodial father has taken her, and the mother has just been found dead in their Dundalk home -- `99 black Dodge Durango, the plates of that 5-A-alpha-J-joy-448. Police on a search for this girl right now.
For all of you that can see this photo or hear me tonight on Sirius, look around. On the roadway, we believe there`s a `99 black Dodge Durango with this child in it with a white male. His name is Timothy Howard Virts. He`s a big guy. He`s 6-3, 280 pounds, may be armed. She was last seen alive at 7:00 AM. The tip line is 410 -- 410-887-7320.
All of you out on the interstate driving home, heading out to the grocery store right now, all of you truckers, take a look. We are on the search for an 11-year-old little girl, Caitlyn Marie Virts. Police say she is in extreme danger. Her mother has been found dead, the little girl missing. We`ll keep you updated if we hear more about this urgent Amber Alert throughout tonight`s program.
And right now, a mom sets out on foot for flu medicine that`s been called in at Walgreens pharmacy. She`s just a few blocks away. She`s never seen alive again. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She disappeared without a trace.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thirty-three-year-old Karla Vellagra-Garzon has not been seen since 10:30.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mom left her home on the 800 block of East Jersey Street to go to this Walgreens at 600 Newark Avenue. And she was desperate, walking to the store to buy medicine for her 2-year-old daughter, who had flu. She never made it to the store, according to surveillance video here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: From everything I am hearing, this mom had a pretty short walk to the Walgreens pharmacy. Her 2-year-old comes down with the flu. The prescription has been called in. She leaves just after supper, in the very early evening, for the short walk to Walgreens pharmacy to pick up the medicine. This mom, Karla Garzon, never seen again. What happened?
To Brett Larson, investigative reporter. What are police doing to find the missing mom?
BRETT LARSON, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER Nancy, they are on an all-out assault to get this woman`s picture in front of many people as possible so that they can help bring her back home or bring her back to safety. As you showed just there, it`s less than a two-mile walk. It`s an easy walk. But it was an easy thing to do, run down, get the medicine from the store, come back. But as you said, the surveillance video at the drug store shows she never even made it to the store.
GRACE: Clark Goldband, what more can you tell me?
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Nancy, take a look at the map that you and the viewers are seeing on your screen. And guys, you`ll see it right behind me. This is a short walk, a walk that should have taken about 20 to 30 minutes. And why was this mom going on the walk? To get important medicine for her 2-year-old child.
You can see it right here. We`re talking about 1.7 miles. You see it behind me on the screen. And this is Walgreens. So it`s a good thing that it`s a big chain pharmacy because there`s plenty of surveillance. But a new wrinkle we`re learning, Nancy -- law enforcement has not been able to find her on that surveillance, which indicates she never made it to the Walgreens.
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Straight back to Brett Larson, investigative reporter. Brett, I don`t get it. She had a 20-minute walk and just a couple of blocks. Now, her child stayed home with whom?
LARSON: Her child stayed home with the husband, who called police the next morning and has been cooperating on this missing persons case.
GRACE: Everyone, take a look at Karla Garzon, mom of a 2-year-old daughter. She leaves just after supper to go get flu medicine for her children. She`s never seen again.
Marc Klaas, president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation. His specialty, missing people. Marc, weigh in.
MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION (via telephone): Well, several things disturb me about this. First of all, it`s below freezing in that part of the country right now, and she was walking. That doesn`t make a lot of sense.
Secondly, according to Google maps, it`s 1.7 miles between her home and the Walgreens store. Thirdly, why in the world did the husband wait until the next day to report her missing? I find all of these circumstances very suspicious.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Everyone, welcome back. I just want to show you this photo again of this 11-year-old little girl. This is Caitlyn Virts. She was last seen alive this morning at 7:00 AM in her home. Right now, an all points bulletin and an Amber Alert for this girl, 5 feet, 80 pounds, could be wearing her glasses, light brown hair. The tip line is 410-887-7320.
This is what we`ve learned. We`ve got a picture of the father, who is not supposed to have her. The mother has been found dead in the home. This is Timothy Howard Virts. He`s a big guy, 6-3, 280 pounds. We believe he`s in a `99 Dodge Durango, black Dodge Durango. What we know now, he still has the facial hair. So if you`re driving along and you see a Dodge Durango and you see this guy, we`re looking for this little girl. Let me give the tip line -- 410-887-7320.
And now joining me, Rita Cosby. In a story that is unfolding, we understand witnesses spot a woman being forced into a car trunk. Let`s see the video, Liz. And we`re now getting the video. The police catch up with the car. Let`s see the video, Liz. Take a look at this.
Out of the car comes the woman. You are seeing the video as we obtain it, out of South Carolina. After five hours being in prison, held captive in this car trunk, no idea where she was going, troopers spot the car. They spot the car and save her life.
At first, she could hardly walk when she got out. The troopers get her out, and there you can see her trying to walk. What a story. After having been kidnapped five hours in the back of this trunk, she is saved. This is along Interstate 95 near Santee, South Carolina. After nearly six hours, kidnapped in the trunk, she survives.
To Rita Crosby, investigative journalist. I just -- I can`t believe that people actually spot her being wrestled into the car, and then the South Carolina -- I guess it`s the South Carolina Highway Patrol, the eagle eyes, spot the car. They hone in on it, and they save the woman. Let`s see the trooper backs up. I mean, he doesn`t know what`s going to happen when he opens this trunk. He has no idea what`s going to happen. Tell me about it, Rita.
RITA COSBY, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: It`s an incredible story because they see this woman being pushed into a car. And the driver is 20-year-old Regelio Lopez. Now, they get the identification of the vehicle. That`s in Virginia Beach. That`s about 400 miles away, Nancy.
So suddenly, they have this "be on the lookout" all over the country. And authorities at a rest stop in South Carolina, just about five-and-a-half hours later, see that vehicle. They see the guy sleeping in the front seat of the car. The door is unlocked. But they go in with guns drawn, as you can see right here, and get him out and throw him on the ground. And then they discover her in the trunk.
GRACE: Still alive in the trunk. You know, it`s so rare. Joining me right now, special guest out of South Carolina Highway Patrol, Sergeant Bob Beres. Sergeant, thanks for being with us. It is to me incredible that this woman is alive, Yolanda Lopez found in the trunk of this vehicle after the odyssey of being kidnapped. And she had no idea where she was going. And I think the trooper fully expected her to be dead when he opened up that trunk.
Sergeant, how did they manage to find the guy?
SGT. BOB BERES, SOUTH CAROLINA HIGHWAY PATROL (via telephone): Yes, ma`am. First of all, thank you for having me on. We actually -- we received a BOLO from the Virginia State Police that they had knowledge of this vehicle possibly being in (INAUDIBLE) rest area with a female that was possibly in the trunk of the vehicle.
A trooper was about 12 miles away, and he immediately went to the scene and spotted this green Cadillac Eldorado. He called for back-up. Another trooper arrived. They approached this vehicle with their cars with the lights off because it was just about where it was getting dark. So sort of in a stealth mode, they approached the vehicle, parked their patrol cars. Got out. One of them got on the left side of the vehicle, the other then down the right side. And they saw the suspect sleeping in the driver`s seat with the seat laid back, with the keys on his chest.
The trooper grabbed the door handle, and he was surprised that it was unlocked. And actually, the driver seemed startled when he opened the door. And you know, the felony car stop, the trooper had his weapon drawn. And immediately, the driver came out of the vehicle and went down to the ground, obeying the commands of the trooper. As he went down to the ground, he grabbed his keyless entry remote and unlocked the trunk of the vehicle.
Now, once we had the driver in custody, the trooper went over to the trunk and lifted up the trunk and noticed the woman laying on her back in the trunk. She was in there for about five hours, she said.
GRACE: You know, Sergeant Beres, spokesperson with the South Carolina Highway Patrol, you know, everybody rails on cops, rails on sheriff highway patrol all of the time. But you know what? This woman would have ended up dead. We all know this always ends badly. And you guys found her.
You know, I was watching the trooper walk up to the trunk. When he opened that trunk, Sergeant, he had no idea what was going to happen, if somebody had a gun in there. He had no clue what was happening. But he did it. He did his duty, Sergeant.
BERES: Yes, ma`am, you`re absolutely right. He didn`t know what to expect, what was going to come out of the trunk. But once he knows the lady is laying on her back, he immediately went up to her and asked her how long she`d been in there. She said for about five hours, and she complained of an injury to her side and back. We later learned that there was an altercation with her and the driver before that rest area, so...
GRACE: Yes, you know, I heard portions of the video that we are not allowed to show, where he is admitting in the back seat of the patrol car that he beat her, at least in the ribs and the face, from what I could understand he was saying. So he had already beaten her horribly.
Is it true, Sergeant, that he actually said the reason he took her was because he didn`t want to be alone, so he beats her brutally and puts her in the trunk?
BERES: Well, I`m not -- I`m not -- I can`t really say any of that information, obviously, because of the course of the investigation is still under way, and we`re still in it infancy. But what I can tell you is when she came out of the trunk, she seemed weak. The trooper put her in his patrol car. We called an ambulance for her, and we also let her use the phone to call some family back home until the ambulance arrived. So she seems very thankful and appreciative that we were there and she was able to go with EMS to (INAUDIBLE) hospital to get checked out.
GRACE: Sergeant Bob Beres, South Carolina Highway Patrol, I can`t thank you enough for being with us tonight.
Everyone, a woman`s life saved after being beaten brutally and tossed in the trunk of this Eldorado. Eagle-eye South Carolina state patrol hone in on the car, open the trunk and save a life.
When we come back, a mom gives birth, and within hours, she abandons her baby girl on the floor of a Burger King bathroom. Tonight, that little girl`s desperate search for Mommy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Katheryn was found as a newborn in the bathroom of a Burger King.
KATHERYN DEPRILL, ABANDONED AS A BABY: I hope that I can see her and maybe give her a hug.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She posted her plea in hopes of finding her birth mother.
DEPRILL: I feel like there`s a piece of me missing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Live, Pennsylvania suburbs, a mother gives birth, and within hours, abandons her baby girl on the floor of a Burger King bathroom. And tonight, that little girl`s desperate search to find Mommy. Now, what she hopes to find, what she thinks is going to happen, we don`t know. But we know that this child was left alone by her mother shortly after her birth, as you see, on the floor of a Burger King. Tonight, we`re going to go out to Katheryn Deprill, abandoned as a newborn.
Rich Zeoli, host of "The Rich Zeoli Show," WPHT -- Rich, what happened?
RICH ZEOLI, TALK SHOW HOST, WPHT (via telephone): Twenty-seven years ago, this woman was abandoned as a baby on the floor of a Burger King restroom. It was 1986, in September. And what happened is one of the workers at the Burger King heard what he thought was an infant crying in the woman`s bathroom for about an hour. He thought maybe the mother had gone and went to change a diaper and maybe left to get something.
He eventually asked a female customer at the Burger King that morning in September of 1986 to go check in the women`s bathroom and see what was going on. And when the woman customer walked in, she found the baby lying on the floor, wrapped in a sweatshirt, wrapped very tightly, the umbilical cord still attached. And police came. They determined that the baby was born for about three hours -- it was alive three hours, not born in the bathroom at the Burger King, born somewhere else and left there.
The police tested for prints. They interviewed witnesses. They were never able to find who the birth mother was. And now 27 years, the woman who has then since been adopted by the family that rescued her from that Burger King, a very happy woman -- she`s a mom herself -- she now has gone on social media to find (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: What is incredible to me is that this woman is not bitter. She`s not angry. And she`s with us right now. Katheryn Deprill, who was left as an newborn, just as an infant on the floor of a Burger King bathroom, joining us tonight exclusively Katheryn, thank you for being with us.
DEPRILL: Hi. Thank you so much for having me.
GRACE: Katheryn, it`s just amazing to me you feel no anger, apparently, no bitterness whatsoever. You`re such a happy person. But you are set on finding your birth mother. Tell me why.
DEPRILL: I would like to find her for many reasons. I just want to say thank you for not throwing me away. You see such horrible stories in the news, these mothers just not knowing where to turn. And she did such a wonderful thing for me and left me in a warm, dry place. And I would like to thank her because now I have three beautiful children. I have a wonderful life...
GRACE: OK, wait. Wa-wait. Wa-wait! Stop. Stop. You said you want to thank her for leaving you in a warm, dry place?
DEPRILL: Yes...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... just breaking my heart because, you know, at night, I try to think of things to do to make my little girl and boy happy, what would make them happy, what`s good for them. And it`s just striking me right now how strong a child`s love is for their mother.
So you want to thank your mother for leaving you in a warm, dry place when she left you on the floor of a Burger King.
DEPRILL: Yes.
GRACE: Is that right?
DEPRILL: Yes. That`s correct. I just -- I don`t want her to be scared to come forward because I just -- I think she did a great job. She took care of me in the womb. I wasn`t addicted to any drugs or alcohol. The nurses and doctors at the hospital said I was very healthy and very well taken care of. So she must have loved me and loved me enough to realize maybe she was in a bad spot and couldn`t take care of me.
And that`s what I want people to realize. She did -- yes, she might have not left me at a hospital. Maybe that was other people`s first choice. But you just have not walked a mile in her shoes. And until you do that, you shouldn`t judge.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: Welcome back. Thank you for joining me.
Her mother leaves her abandoned, alone on the floor of this Burger King ladies` bathroom. He is pointing to where the baby infant, umbilical cord just cut and mommy leaves. Tonight where is mommy? That`s what she`s saying. Her desperate search for her mother.
Joining me right now, amazingly not bitter, not angry, she wants her mother.
Katheryn Deprill is joining us. Abandoned at a Burger King as a newborn.
Katheryn, you were put in foster care or an orphanage?
KATHERYN DEPRILL, ABANDONED AT BURGER KING AS NEWBORN, SEARCHING FOR MOM: I was discharged from the hospital into a foster home which later turned out to be my adoptive parents. They both adopted me. Brenda and Carl Hollis. And that was home. Those are my parents.
GRACE: Let me ask you, I`m just overwhelmed at your incredible love for the woman that left you on the floor of a Burger King as an infant. Again, tell me when you meet your birth mom, because you have an adopted mom --
DEPRILL: Yes.
GRACE: When you meet your mother, what do you hope to say to her?
DEPRILL: I would like to know why. What was so horrible that she chose to leave me there. But I would like to thank her. It takes a strong woman to birth a child with no pain meds. I tried it and I couldn`t do it. So she has to be an extremely strong woman. And to leave your child not knowing what is going to happen to them, leaving me in the bathroom and walking away, I just cannot even imagine.
But I would like to know my past medical history. That is a big one. Now that I`m a mother, I`m taking care of my children and every time I go into the doctor, that is the first question you get. What is your past medical history and I always have to say, I don`t know. I`m adopted. And every response is, well, don`t you know your parents? Everyone thinks that everyone knows who their parents are and it`s not the truth, obviously.
GRACE: Well, Katheryn, when did you learn -- at what point in life did you learn your mom had abandoned you on the floor of a Burger King?
DEPRILL: Well, I always knew I was adopted. That was never a secret. My mom and dad -- my mom always said we came from her heart. My sister and I. And then my two brothers came from her belly. The love was just unconditional. The parents who adopted me so that was never a secret. But in 6th grade I had to do a project on our heritage and we had to bring in some food and I said well, I don`t know who my parents are, I don`t know what I am.
And the teacher got upset just thinking I was trying to get out of the assignment and I said that`s not the case at all, I just don`t know who my parents are. And she kind of had an attitude --
GRACE: So --
DEPRILL: -- and fully --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: The fact that you`re remembering this, it must have upset you when that happened. I just -- I`m just having a hard time understanding. I mean, I think the closest person in the world to me is my mother and I guess your adopted mom. But in your mind, I just want to understand, you have no bitterness, no anger.
What is your dream? Have you ever dreamed about the moment you`re going to meet your mom and what is it that you think is going to happen?
DEPRILL: I am hoping that she will let me hug her. That`s what I want.
GRACE: Everyone, Katheryn Deprill has been called the Burger King baby. And she has this effort now, a Facebook effort, a desperate search to find her mother.
Now whether you think it was right or wrong, this is past, any criminal proceedings, mom, you are out there somewhere. I hope you`re listening.
And now to tonight`s case alert.
The search for a teen girl, an honor student, vanishes at the height of Mardi Gras comes to an end. Investigators confirmed the body of Hailey Howard and her silver Toyota has just been pulled from the Irish Bayou. Howard apparently veers off Interstate 10 into the water.
When we come back, the youngest pot bust ever. A group of little third graders caught smoking pot in the boys` bathroom of the elementary school.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: And now to Sonora Suburbs. A group of little third graders, 8 and 9 years old, smoking pot, all of them in the boys` bathroom in an upscale northern California elementary school. Tonight, the youngest pot bust ever.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: It was here at Sonora Elementary School where police say three grade school students were caught smoking pot in a bathroom.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We saw the three kids get taken out of the bathroom.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They were little kids and it shouldn`t happen.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Now many are wondering how the students got their hands on the drug to begin with.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Yes, how did they get their hands on pot? Eight and 9-year-olds, smoking pot, all of them, in the boys` bathroom? This on the cusp of the legalization marijuana wave crossing the country? How many states are now legalizing recreational, not medicinal marijuana?
Mike Simpson, anchor, KFBK, what happened?
MIKE SIMPSON, ANCHOR/REPORTER, KFBK: Well, Nancy, if you can believe it, all in the third grade like you said. Two 8-year-olds and 9-year-old, by all accounts, smoking up in one of the bathrooms back in late February, this is the 27th, Sonora Elementary School, about 90 miles southeast of us here in Sacramento. For your viewers probably close to Yosemite.
From what we hear, it was another student that saw them smoking in the bathroom, went and told a teacher, that went up the line to the principal`s office, of course. He called police. These kids questioned, released to their parents. The Probation Department is taking things over.
GRACE: Whoa.
SIMPSON: Everybody is tight lipped from there.
GRACE: Wow. This is a very upscale area there in the (INAUDIBLE).
To Brad Lamm, addiction specialist and founder of Breathe Life Healing Centers. Also with us the president of NORML, the National Organization for Reform of Marijuana Laws. Bottom line, what Kent wants is marijuana to be legal for recreational use across the whole country.
First to you, Brad Lamm, age 8 years old, getting high on pot in this posh elementary school?
BRAD LAMM, ADDICTION SPECIALIST, FOUNDER, BREATHE LIFE HEALING CENTERS: Well, it doesn`t surprise me. Sadly, that is the direction this is going, Nancy. We normalize and normalize and minimize the effects of pot for the folks that don`t have a problem with it, thanks to folks like Norm who say it`s just no big deal. And this does not surprise me.
GRACE: You know, Norm, this is what we told you was going to happen with your effort to legalize marijuana and when it`s in the home and parents are, as you say, using it responsibly, I don`t know why you`re saying that, children get it and this is what happened.
Do you feel any responsibility at all for pushing the legalization?
NORM KENT, PRESIDENT, NORML: I feel responsible for keeping people out of jail unjustly and standing up to individuals like yourself who are asking repeatedly that people be locked up for possessing a joint.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: For having their 8-year-old getting high on their --
KENT: That`s wrong, it`s unjust and it`s improper.
GRACE: On mommy and daddy`s pot? You think that`s OK?
KENT: Parents are reckless and irresponsible. That doesn`t mean the rest of the nation should suffer.
GRACE: Well, Norm.
KENT: Those patients should be punished.
GRACE: Put him up. I don`t need to see another joint. Put up Norm Kent. Where`s Brad Lamm?
Norm Kent, hold on.
KENT: Nancy --
GRACE: No. No, you wait. Norm Kent, listen to me.
KENT: Yes.
GRACE: Norm, you are insisting that marijuana be legalized across the board but you can`t just give marijuana to good people or people that are responsible. If it is legalized, everyone has access to it. Everyone, whether they`re responsible or irresponsible and it gets in the hands of children. You can`t see that?
KENT: Adults, Nancy, that`s what this is all about. Protecting individual liberty and personal freedoms for adults to make choices.
GRACE: You know what, Norm, why aren`t you answering?
KENT: What`s wrong with that?
GRACE: You know what, Brad, help me.
LAMM: Nancy, Nancy --
GRACE: What?
LAMM: There`s a great study that came out just this morning from the Hazelden Betty Ford Foundation that says across the board they looked at thousands of families and parents minimizing the effects of drugs in the life of their kids. And this is a perfect example of how this will create a whole new generation of addicted kids that are -- it`s happening right under the noses of parents.
KENT: It`s just a joint, Nancy. It`s just a joint.
GRACE: It`s -- yes. You know what?
KENT: Little pieces of marijuana and herb that should not lock people up.
GRACE: It`s just a joint in the hands of an 8-year-old child. Is that OK? Is it still just a joint?
KENT: Well, just like -- we don`t want parents giving their children keys to a car --
GRACE: Well, they are.
KENT: -- or the alcohol in a cabinet or guns either. We keep dangerous things away from children.
GRACE: Obviously not.
KENT: We keep medicines and prescriptions away.
GRACE: Well, obviously not.
LAMM: But Norm --
KENT: Marijuana, thank goodness, is not dangerous. Thank goodness -- thank goodness a child smoking a joint won`t kill him.
LAMM: Norm -- it is dangerous, Norm. If fact, if you are a kid and you start smoking pot while you are an adolescent you`re about 20 percent -- 20 percent of the population will grow up to be acutely addicted. That`s not not dangerous so why do you continue to stop these lies.
KENT: No, no, Brad, people do not get addicted to pot. They have a predisposition to addiction for a variety of reasons but --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I haven`t seen anything like it. I -- you know what?
KENT: But pot does not make you physically --
GRACE: To Dr. Tim Gallagher, medical examiner and pathologist.
Gallagher, I just heard Norm Kent say people do not get addicted to pot. I`ve never heard anything more ridiculous in my life. People don`t get addicted to pot? Yes, they do.
DR. TIM GALLAGHER, MEDICAL EXAMINER AND FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Yes, I believe that they do, Nancy, and I believe that gentleman is incorrect.
GRACE: Bethany Marshall, why are pro-pot legalizationalists, why are they going through life with their blinders on? I mean, hello, they`re 8-year- olds. They got the pot from somewhere.
Hold on, Bethany. Mike Simpson with KFBK, where did they get the pot?
SIMPSON: Well, all police are saying right now is several sources. Moms and dads interviewed at the school. Even some of the other school children have of course wondered whether it came from these particular kids` parents. The likely source of the investigation.
We`re told from the police chief that, look, these kids were found with a pipe, very small amounts of marijuana, the chief said they seemed to have little smoking experience, thankfully, didn`t appear to be actually under the influence when they were found.
GRACE: The question is where did they get it. They had to get it from the home, Mike Simpson, joining me KFBK.
Unleash the lawyers, Shireen Hormozdi, Atlanta, Jeff Gold, defense attorney, New York.
All right, Jeff Gold and Shireen Hormozdi, I want to hear your defense. This is going to be tracked back to home. It`s going to belong to mommy and daddy. I don`t know what you`re smirching about, Gold, but maybe you think something about this is funny.
(CROSSTALK)
JEFF GOLD, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You don`t know that. You`re saying it`s traced to the parents. They could have bought it from a dealer. I don`t know.
GRACE: An 8-year-old?
GOLD: Yes, an 8-year-old could have bought it from a dealer. I don`t know that it`s the parents yet.
GRACE: In what universe?
GOLD: You know -- there`s only medicinal marijuana in California. It`s not legal in California so I don`t know that there was some on the kitchen table.
GRACE: In what universe does an 8-year-old go to score on the side of the street? What -- you`re not even making any sense.
GOLD: Why not -- OK. There is 12-year-old dealers. I`ve represented them.
GRACE: I`m talking about an -- you know what, Shireen Hormozdi, it`s going to be tracked back to one of the parents, OK. That`s just the reality. Now I think the parents should be prosecuted just like if you leave out a gun or if you leave out cocaine, if you leave out marijuana and your children get it and use it, it`s on you, Shireen.
SHIREEN HORMOZDI: I`m with Norm Kent, though. Even if it`s traced back to the parents --
GRACE: Well God help you.
HORMOZDI: Even if it`s traced back to the parents it doesn`t mean that responsible adults cannot use marijuana. The problem is the parents giving marijuana to the child.
GRACE: What if it`s a gun?
HORMOZDI: Not marijuana in general.
GRACE: Is that OK? Is that OK, Shireen?
HORMOZDI: No. Absolutely not.
GRACE: What if they bring a gun to school? So why is that different from pot?
HORMOZDI: We can`t take the Second Amendment away. We can`t go back to Prohibition.
GRACE: I`m not asking you to. I`m not asking you to. But you are saying that this is OK.
Why is it OK, Norm Kent, why is it OK for the parents to have marijuana and the kids to bring it to school, Norm Kent, and other children smoke it?
KENT: It is not OK. NORML backs the responsible use of marijuana by adults and we`re not advocating that children drive impaired with it or use it recklessly or negligently.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: As the movement for legalization of recreational marijuana crosses the country, and I`m not referring to medicinal marijuana, now in an upscale California suburb, 8-year-olds, several 8-year-olds caught smoking pot at school.
To you, Rita Cosby, it`s easy to laugh it off but the addiction rates when children start smoking pot at such a young age, skyrocket. And not only that, they then go on to other drugs like cocaine, like heroin.
RITA COSBY, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST, AUTHOR OF "QUIET HERO": Oh, absolutely. There`s so many reports, Nancy, that this is a gateway drug. And the big question is again how did they get it? Did they buy it on the street corner? Did they get it from an adult? Right now the kids have not been seen in school since. And how do you punish folks who are 8 and 9 years old?
GRACE: An 8-year-old child.
Justin Freiman, what does the police chief say?
JUSTIN FREIMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: The police chief actually says that this highlights his concerns about legalizing marijuana because you put it in the hands of more adults, it could end up in the hands of more minors.
GRACE: Back to Norm Kent and Brad Lamm. Brad Lamm, the marijuana legalizationists pooh-pooh the theory of a gateway drug. Explain. I mean, you just texted me a couple of nights ago about a person that you`re concerned about that has just came in to Breath Life Center that you run and it all started with pot.
LAMM: Nancy, some of the sickest people that we`re seeing these days are those 20 percent of all pot smokers who started as adolescents who, on pot, get very, very impaired. They get paranoid, they get delusional. It`s often connected with other substance abuse, too. And it`s the thing that started it all. So when Norm says that pot isn`t a big problem, I say look at a third of our clients at Breath Life Healing Centers who are dying from their relationship with pot.
GRACE: Norm?
KENT: And there are tens of millions of Americans who smoke pot responsibly, use it in the scope of their lives carefully --
GRACE: Tens of millions? Where did you pull that stat from?
KENT: Yes.
GRACE: Tens of millions?
KENT: Nancy, Nancy, there have been --
GRACE: I mean, how many million people live in the U.S.?
KENT: Nancy, there have been 25 million Americans arrested for marijuana possession --
GRACE: Tens of millions?
KENT: Yes. Listen to me for a second, Nancy. For the last 25 years we`ve had over 30 million Americans arrested for possession of marijuana. And you`re opposing responsible marijuana laws. And you`re wrong, and it`s unjust, and it`s a gateway drug from pot.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Tonight "Death Row Stories", the twists and turns of capital murder cases, we choose to remember the victims. Tonight mother and grandmother, Dorothy Edwards, brutally stabbed and beat in her bedroom closet.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Dorothy Edwards was a wealthy widow and mother of one daughter who loved spending time with her grandchildren in Florida when she was not painting and doing needlepoint at her home in Greenwoods, South Carolina. She was seeing a retired businessman and talking about getting married again, but that would never happen.
On January 16th, 1982, 75-year-old Dorothy Edwards was brutally murdered, beaten and stabbed over 50 times. Edwards lived alone and it was two days before her body was found in her bedroom closet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You are seeing home video of Dorothy Edwards that we got from her daughter Caroline Edwards Lee. And crime scene photos from Greenwood Police. That`s all she has of her mother. Those are the last images, the last photos of her mother.
Brian King, news editor, gwdtoday.com, is joining us. What can you tell me about the murder and the death row story?
BRIAN KING, NEWS EDITOR, GWDTODAY.COM: Well, Nancy, this is a very interesting tale of a brutal murder in a small southern town and the horrible injustice done to a man who was wrongly accused of the crime. Miss Edwards was known to be a very kind, wealthy widow, brutally murdered in her home.
GRACE: Everyone, this Sunday 9:00 p.m. seen in "Death Row Stories." It`s a new series from Academy Award winner Alex Gibney and Robert Redford. Men and women sentenced to death row.
Everyone, I want to thank you for being with us tonight. But first, let`s stop and remember American hero Army Sergeant Albert Ware, 27, Chicago. Army Achievement Medal, loved cooking West African dishes, parents Thomas and Masa, one sister, widow Pleshette, three children.
Albert Ware, American hero.
And tonight happy birthday to a California beauty, Catie. Stanford honor grad, Ph.D. in creative writing, loves to run and her King Charles Cavalier dog Gracie and brother Timmy.
And tonight our thoughts and prayers to the family of Lesline Bennett Scott, born in Cuba, raised Jamaica, leaves behind four children and six grands. Beautiful.
Lesline Bennett Scott, good night, friend.
Drew up next, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
