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Nancy Grace
George Zimmerman Signs Autographs at Gun Show; Walmart Steak Laced With LSD
Aired March 10, 2014 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, to Orlando. After 17-year- old Trayvon Martin gunned down by the captain of neighborhood watch, George Zimmerman walks free. But then reports of a physical altercation with his wife and claims he pulls a shotgun on his girlfriend. Then we uncover Zimmerman`s shocking arsenal of guns and ammo, as reports emerge of a George Zimmerman sex tape and photos of bruises on his girlfriend.
Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, Zimmerman`s audacity knows no bounds as he is the guest of honor at a gun show, actually signing autographs like he`s a Hollywood star. When will it end?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN, ACQUITTED OF MURDER: Do you mind if I make it out on the front?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That would be fine (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: George Zimmerman shook hands and signed autographs for people at a gun show in central Florida.
ZIMMERMAN: Me and my dog, my 2-year-old pup.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s you?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Awesome, bro!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And Daytona Beach. A 32-year-old mom of three plows her minivan into the ocean as her three little children ages 3, 9 and 10, all buckled in, trapped in the Honda minivan, screaming, Mommy`s trying to kill us! We have the video.
Tonight, police sources tell us why ocean mom is really being held on $1.2 million bond.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s trying to drive, and I`m trying to stop her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ebony Wilkerson drove her minivan into the ocean with her three children inside.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She told them to close their eyes and go to sleep.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was talking about Jesus.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mommy`s trying to kill us. Please help.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She definitely tried to kill her children.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A reality TV star gets a dose of actual reality as the star`s dragged into court on serious assault charges. We have the video!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Out of the room, girl! Out of the room!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Get away from me!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Out of the room!
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: That`s from Lifetime`s "Dance Moms."
And tonight, a family rushed to the emergency room after chowing down on a steak from Walmart. Problem? The meat, bottom round steak, laced with LSD, so laced it throws Mommy into labor and she gives birth prematurely. Now, that`s a rollback!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A family of four ended up in the hospital after eating meat laced with LSD.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ronnie Morales became sick soon after the family meal that included a bottom round steak bought at this Walmart store.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The two little girls started having hallucinations.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So the big question is, where did this tainted meat come from?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight, Orlando. George Zimmerman`s audacity knows no bounds. He`s the guest of honor at a gun show, this after he guns down Trayvon Martin. Whether you agree with the verdict or not, he killed an unarmed boy, one way or the other. Now he is at a gun shows, signing autographs like he`s a Hollywood star? When will it end?
Straight out to Rita Cosby, investigative journalist joining us. Rita, I thought it would finally go away when we find out George Zimmerman makes a sex tape, all right, those allegations. But now, in the last hours, this weekend, he`s the star, the belle of the ball at a gun show?
RITA COSBY, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: Yes, it is unbelievable. He`s in Orlando at a gun show. And in fact, the event organizer at first wanted to hold it in a big location. There was so much uproar over George Zimmerman doing that, that they had to -- at first, they were trying to cancel George Zimmerman. Then they moved it to a gun store. Two hundred people lined up to get autographs and pictures.
GRACE: Whoa! "Meet George Zimmerman, line starts here"? OK. OK. Joining me right now, Larry Elder, KABC talk show host. Also with me, Mo Ivory, radio personality.
All right, Elder, "Line starts here to meet George Zimmerman"?
LARRY ELDER, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Well, Nancy...
GRACE: Don`t laugh! I can hear you. What -- what are you laughing at? Do you think Trayvon Martin`s parents are laughing tonight? Is that what you think, Elder?
ELDER: I`m not -- I`m not laughing.
GRACE: I heard you!
ELDER: He is a free, innocent man...
GRACE: I heard you!
ELDER: ... having been judged not guilty by a jury.
GRACE: Number one, you`re lying. I heard you.
ELDER: He has a right to have a firearm. He has a right to attend an event. He has a right to accept an invitation that`s been offered to him. If you don`t want to go, don`t go. The man has a right to have this.
GRACE: You know what, Elder? Number one -- Larry Elder joining me out of LA, KABC talk show host. Larry, number one, I did hear you laughing because all this is just funny to you.
You know what, Mo? I bet Trayvon`s parents don`t think it`s so funny. Let me see those pictures again of Zimmerman.
ELDER: One more time -- one more time...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Your name is not Mo Ivory!
ELDER: To be fair to Larry Elder...
(CROSSTALK)
ELDER: To be fair to Larry Elder, he didn`t laugh. The man sitting next to me is the one who laughed. So you want to get on him...
GRACE: All right. All right.
ELDER: ... get on him.
GRACE: You didn`t laugh. OK.
ELDER: Thank you.
GRACE: Let`s -- let`s just -- let`s just start over. First of all, forget about Trayvon Martin shot down in the mud. Let`s just put it on the record, Larry Elder did not laugh. All right.
Can I go now to Deborah Roberts, reporter/anchor, Florida News Network. Deborah, why is George Zimmerman signing autographs to a line of people, like he`s a Hollywood movie star, at a gun show?
DEBORAH ROBERTS, FLORIDA NEWS NETWORK (via telephone): It`s hard to say, Nancy, because he gave the money to a charity for animals. So it`s not like he made any money off of the appearance. And like you heard earlier...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... what money to charity? What -- what -- what money to charity are you talking about?
ROBERTS: If there were any money collected at his appearance, because he didn`t make any for his appearance, he merely gave out pictures that didn`t even look like him.
GRACE: OK, you know what? Let`s see the photo. Let`s see the photo of George Zimmerman, the signed autograph photo. It was -- at first, I didn`t realize it was George Zimmerman. Everybody, you`re seeing a shot of George Zimmerman at a gun show, where he happily signed autographs this weekend.
Oh, OK, now, I see the dog. Where is George Zimmerman?
ROBERTS: I don`t know.
GRACE: Clark, where is George Zimmerman in that photo?
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yes, Nancy, George Zimmerman is right here. As you can see behind me, this being George Zimmerman. And also, here is his autograph and it`s pre-printed, "Thanks for your support, your friend," so George Zimmerman signing these 8x10 head shots. This is George Zimmerman, and this was the 8x10 you could receive...
GRACE: OK, what is this, throwback Monday? Really?
GOLDBAND: Yes, I`m not aware of that.
GRACE: How old is that? You know what? That`s none of my business what photo he uses. The fact that people -- it`s not just Zimmerman, people are lining up...
GOLDBAND: Yes, 200.
GRACE: ... to get his photo...
GOLDBAND: 200.
GRACE: ... and get it signed. Joining me right now, I`m hearing in my ear, is a special guest, the owner of the Arms Room and New Orlando Gun Show, Mike Piwowarski. Mr. Piwowarski, thank you for being with us.
MIKE PIWOWARSKI, OWNER, THE ARMS ROOM (via telephone): Good evening.
GRACE: Hi, Mike. Question. Why did you invite -- not judging -- why did you invite George Zimmerman to be the guest of honor at the gun show?
PIWOWARSKI: George wasn`t invited to be a guest of honor. George offered to be a vendor at the gun show, where he could meet and greet his supporters.
GRACE: A vendor. That means what, that you sell something?
PIWOWARSKI: Sell something. George just happened to be, you know, giving out handshakes and autographs.
GRACE: So he was not selling anything, so he was not a vendor.
PIWOWARSKI: He was a vendor -- he was slated to be a vendor at a gun show with a table, just like all the other vendors.
GRACE: Oh, OK. But did he sell anything? That`s my question.
PIWOWARSKI: No, because we didn`t have the gun show.
GRACE: Right. OK, so that -- because it was moved. I understand. Mike, let me ask you this. According to all of the sources, he was basically -- you`re calling him a vendor, but he was considered the guest of honor at a gun show. Why?
PIWOWARSKI: He was not considered a guest of honor.
GRACE: OK. I guess that`s interpretation. Mo, I`d like you to weigh in, Mo Ivory.
MO IVORY, ATTORNEY AND RADIO PERSONALITY: This is beyond disgusting and even beyond disrespectful, but this is what George Zimmerman is. He is disgusting and disrespectful, and he knows no bounds!
GRACE: You know, Larry Elder, I want to go back to you. Now, I know how you feel about the right to bear arms. And I`m not redrafting the Constitution, OK? I get it. Everybody has a right to bear arms if they wish, unless they`re a convicted felon.
But you know, I know the first thing you say every time we talk about this is he was acquitted. I know he was acquitted. I covered it live when it happened.
But the gall to bring him on at a gun show -- and I don`t care what anybody says, he was there signing autographs like a Hollywood star. This after gunning down -- whether you think it was right or wrong, guilty or not guilty, he gunned down an unarmed teen, Trayvon Martin. And now he`s at a gun show. He`s the darling of a gun show signing autographs.
That bothers me, Larry. That bothers me. And it should bother you.
ELDER: What bothers me is you`re acting as if this verdict was an unjust verdict.
GRACE: No, I`m not.
You`re acting as if there was no evidence to suggest that George Zimmerman`s defense of self-defense was not legitimate.
GRACE: And I`m rehashing the verdict?
ELDER: Let me finish, please. This is not a guy like Michael Dunn who murdered -- who shot somebody and then took off and then didn`t tell his girlfriend that he saw a firearm. He shot Trayvon Martin. He stayed there. He agreed to go to the police station for questioning, was questioned without an attorney. It seems to me we ought to give him some degree of respect for that. And furthermore...
IVORY: We should give him some degree of respect? We should give a killer respect?
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... to Trayvon Martin.
ELDER: Can you calm down for a second, please? And how about the psychological head cheese (ph) he`s got to go through. Most of the country believes he`s a murderer. Imagine having been found not guilty...
(CROSSTALK)
ELDER: ... by a jury of your peers...
(CROSSTALK)
IVORY: ... he killed somebody!
ELDER: ... rest of the country believing that you`re a killer.
GRACE: People still think...
(CROSSTALK)
ELDER: What does that do to your head?
GRACE: ... killer, too.
IVORY: Larry, who cares about his head?
GRACE: Well, maybe...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... not carry a gun and shoot unarmed youth.
ELDER: You know...
GRACE: Maybe that would be a start, and not appear at gun shows as the belle of the ball!
ELDER: I`m happy you mentioned the O.J. Simpson verdict. Does anybody believe those were just verdicts? What about the Robert Blake verdict? Does anybody believe that was a just verdict? But this one, Nancy...
GRACE: No.
ELDER: ... like it or not, a lot of Americans believe the evidence was consistent with the verdict.
GRACE: You know what, Larry? You keep...
IVORY: No, we don`t.
GRACE: ... throwing out what Americans think. I think that`s what you think.
Out to the lines. Stephanie in South Carolina. Hi, Stephanie. What`s your question.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, is George Zimmerman trying to get back into the limelight, considering he is a murderer and is killing (ph)? And I mean...
GRACE: You know what? Hold on. You take a listen to this, Stephanie in South Carolina, and see what you think.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you concerned about your safety today?
ZIMMERMAN: Of course. Certainly.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Then why take a chance?
ZIMMERMAN: Again, to support them. The Arms Room family has gone to a tremendous amount of work to secure the location. But of course, I always stay cognizant of the fact that there are threats. But the concept of being able to pay them back for what they did for me and to see my supporters face to face was something I couldn`t just pass up.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You have said that you still walk around armed. Why is that?
ZIMMERMAN: I walk around armed. I walk around with a bulletproof vest. I mean, it`s not even so much for my safety as it is those around me. I can`t be around my family. And you know, if something happened to them -- there`s children around me, et cetera -- those threats -- I have to be able to defend myself, like any American.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you serious?
911 OPERATOR: 911, police, fire and medical.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I need police right now.
911 OPERATOR: OK, what`s your address?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) breaking stuff in my house!
911 OPERATOR: Ma`am, what`s going on?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s in my house breaking all my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) because I asked him to leave. He has his frickin` gun breaking all of my stuff right now.
No, this is not...
911 OPERATOR: OK...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m doing this again? You just broke my glass table! You just broke my sunglasses, and you put your gun in my frickin` face and told me to get the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) out. This is not your house. No! Get out of here!
911 OPERATOR: OK, what is your name? OK, where is his weapon at?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He just put it down.
911 OPERATOR: OK, and this is...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, get out of my house! Do not push me out of my house! Please get out of my house. Are you serious right now?
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s Zimmerman`s exclusive with Fox 35 news.
OK, here`s my question. Deborah Roberts, Florida News Network, if he is afraid for his life, why is he out signing autographs at a public venue, at a gun show, no less?
ROBERTS: You know, Nancy, it`s Zimmerman`s word versus anyone else. When he`s asked if he views himself as a celebrity, he says of course not, he never has and he never will. And yet both his soon-to-be ex-wife and his girlfriend, on again, off again, have both said that he only seems to be happiest when he is in the limelight. So I would agree with your caller from South Carolina that he just appears to just love the limelight, no matter what comes out of his mouth.
GRACE: Everyone, when we come back, a family rushed to the emergency room after they chow down on a nice steak from Walmart. Problem? The meat, bottom round steak, laced with LSD.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: A family rushed to the emergency room after they chow down on a nice steak from Walmart, the meat, bottom round steak, laced with LSD, so laced it throws Mommy into labor and she gives birth prematurely. Now, that`s a rollback!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Determined that the family had consumed bottom round steak contaminated with LSD.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The steak dinner was their first home-cooked meal.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There was no indication that we know of right now that the meat tasted funny.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The steak came from a Walmart. No one knows how the drug ended up in the meat.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Detectives determined the family bought the meat at a Walmart that is located at 1501 North Mayberry (ph) Highway. The Walmart chain has been very, very cooperative with our investigation and they voluntarily turned over all like meat products from their shelves at the time.
The medical examiner is currently testing that meat that Walmart turned over. At this point, TPD does not have any other similar cases, and it`s not clear to us if a crime has occurred, and we have no information to indicate that this is anything other than an isolated case. And as I said, we are currently investigating.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK, Michael Christian, what happened? Mom goes into premature labor. The whole family rushed to the emergency room. How did LSD get into the bottom round of steak at Walmart?
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Nancy, that is the million-dollar question that everybody would like answered. What happened here is that this family of four had a dinner -- and coincidentally, it was the first dinner in their new home. They`d only been there for two days, and it was the first meal that they cooked in their new home. They cooked thin-cut bottom round steak from Walmart. Within a couple of hours, one of the...
GRACE: Whoa! I just see a sign that says organic. Organic except for the LSD. Go ahead.
CHRISTIAN: The male, a 24-year-old male, starts to feel awful. His girlfriend, who`s 31, the pregnant woman, she`s so afraid that she`s terrified because he`s so sick that she rushes him to the hospital. While she`s at the hospital, she starts to get sick. Pretty soon, her two little girls, who are I believe 7 and 9, they start to get sick. Everybody is having hallucinations, having problems breathing...
GRACE: Hallucinations? Hold on! Deborah Roberts, anchor, Florida News Network -- this was in Florida, I believe the Orlando area. Hallucinations -- what were the hallucinations the little children were having? And what are police saying tonight about LSD in steak at Walmart?
CHRISTIAN: Well, actually, Nancy, this took place in the Tampa area. And police right now are saying that from all evidence, it looks to just be an isolated case. Now, no meat, no raw meat is actually handled in Walmart stores. It always comes prepackaged from their meat supplier, Cargill. So right now, that company, as well, has aid they haven`t seen any other reported incidents around the country.
But the hallucinations -- they haven`t described exactly what they were like, but thank goodness the family was in the emergency room when the children started to hallucinate.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hallucinations, dizziness, rapid heart rate and difficulty breathing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ronnie Morales became sick soon after the family meal that included a bottom round steak.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The steak came from a Walmart.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: An entire family rushed to the ER after they have bottom round steak at Walmart, steak laced with LSD. As of right now, this seems to be an isolated incident. Or is it? We are taking your calls.
Unleash the lawyers. Peter Odom, defense attorney, Atlanta. Also with me, Alex Sanchez, defense attorney New York. Also with me, attorney, radio personality Mo Ivory.
First of all, to you, Peter Odom. Walmart`s got a big legal problem on their hands. What`s your defense?
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: For Walmart, that Walmart had nothing to do with it. It`s very unlikely that Walmart showed any negligence. It probably happened at the factory where the meat was processed. Walmart doesn`t handle meat, Nancy. They just sell what`s packaged elsewhere.
GRACE: You know, I`m going to have to disagree with you on that.
Alex Sanchez, it`s just like -- think of a car dealership, a new car dealership, OK? You go out -- let me just say, what would Alex Sanchez drive? A Lamborghini. OK, you go out in your brand-new Lamborghini and the thing blows up. No offense, you`re dead.
The dealership can`t say, Oh, that`s not our fault. Your family is going to sue the dealership, then they can sue somebody else surrogate to stand in their place, if they want to. But bottom line, they will be responsible, you know, even if they brought the meat in and it was tainted when it came in. What about it, Sanchez?
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, first of all, I don`t drive Lamborghinis. That`s number one. But if somebody snuck into Walmart and somehow, you know, manipulated a piece of meat and put LSD on there, how is that Walmart`s fault? And I`m not a big defender of Walmart...
GRACE: (INAUDIBLE) just a second. Actually...
SANCHEZ: ... but someone`s committed a crime...
GRACE: ... you know what?
SANCHEZ: ... basically, against Walmart.
GRACE: That is an intervening criminal event, and you are right. If it did -- you and Peter got me over a barrel on this one because if someone came in and tampered with it, that`s an intervening criminal event.
SANCHEZ: Right. But I bet you the police...
GRACE: But if it came in that way, it`s going to be a different story.
SANCHEZ: I bet the police are suspicious of the entire story to begin with. They`re not just investigating Walmart, they`re investigating...
GRACE: Put him up!
SANCHEZ: They`re investigative...
GRACE: So you think the pregnant mom...
SANCHEZ: No, I`m not saying...
GRACE: ... went on her own little mushroom trip or LSD trip?
SANCHEZ: I`m not pointing fingers at anybody. But if I were the police, I would investigate Walmart, I would investigate the factory, and I would ask questions of the family relatives there just to try to narrow down exactly what happened.
GRACE: Mo?
IVORY: So now it`s a mom who`s pregnant trying to poison...
SANCHEZ: No, no.
IVORY: ... her unborn child...
SANCHEZ: Don`t put words in my mouth.
IVORY: ... and her two other kids, as well. I mean, I don`t think...
SANCHEZ: Do not put words in my mouth. That`s not what I said.
IVORY: ... there`s any questions for the mom.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: You said it, Sanchez.
SANCHEZ: I said it`s worth asking questions.
IVORY: ... Walmart will probably be responsible for what happened, and they will end up writing a check.
GRACE: You know what? You did say it`s worth writing questions, but I think it is worth writing a check, Mo.
But bottom line, to Dr. Bill Manion, medical examiner and forensic pathologist joining me out of Philly -- Dr. Manion, what could this do to an unborn child, LSD?
DR. BILL MANION, MEDICAL EXAMINER, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST (via telephone): Well, there would be some effects on the child, like increased respiration, increased blood pressure after the child was delivered. The main effect on the uterus -- the uterus is a bag of smooth muscles, and LSD causes the smooth muscle to contract, so that`s why the baby was delivered prematurely.
GRACE: You know, I`m a big Walmart fan, but LSD in a steak? Walmart better get to the bottom of this, and pronto.
Everybody, when we come back, a mother of three plows her minivan into the ocean, her three children trapped in the Honda, children screaming, Mommy`s trying to kill us. Tonight, inside police sources tell us why ocean mom is really being held on $1.2 million bond.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Daytona Beach. A 32-year-old mother of three plows her minivan into the ocean, her three little children ages 3, 9 and 10 all trapped in the Honda, screaming mommy is trying to kill us. We have the video tonight. Tonight inside the police department tell us why ocean mom is really being held on $1.2 million bond.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s leaving and I don`t want to chase after this car. She`s pregnant.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ebony Wilkerson drove a minivan filled with her children into the Atlantic Ocean.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s having psychosis or something, or postpartum.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We thought it was just a joke, saying, hey, they`re having a good time. Became clear they were screaming for help.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: It was no joke. In fact, tonight, not only does mom jump out, she saves herself, belly flops into the water, gets up and walks away. That`s not the end of the story. Sources are saying that witnesses state mom actually tries to block the rescuers from saving the children.
Not only that, keep watching this video. You will see mom walking away. There she goes, highlight on mom walking away. She leaves the car, she leaves her children as the car, the minivan, goes further and further into the water, into the surf. When two of the children are out, they keep yelling, the baby, the baby, the baby! Mom refuses to answer when, in fact, we learn a baby is still strapped in the car. The rescuers racing back to save the third child.
Now, this is the first we are learning that the mom actually tried to block some of the rescuers. Also we learn tonight that she was driving straight along the beach. In Daytona you can drive on the sand. And took a hard turn, a hard and intentional turn into the water. She had to say something to those children, something menacing, because they were all screaming "mommy is trying to kill us, mommy is going to kill us!" People standing by could hear the children screaming for their lives.
With me, special guest Tim Tesseneer, rescued children from the sinking van. Tim, thank you for being with us.
TIM TESSENEER, RESCUER: Thank you for having me. It`s a pleasure.
GRACE: Tim, first of all, you`re the hero tonight. You probably don`t see yourself that way from what I hear about you, but that van kept going and kept going and it kept going. At some point those children would have been submerged in water. But you acted, along with one or two others, and you saved the lives of the children.
Now, witnesses are saying that at one point the mom actually tried to block one or more of the rescuers.
TESSENEER: Yes, that is correct. Stacy Robinson (ph) and I got to the van simultaneously, and when we got to the van, we started talking to her, telling her she needs to turn up out of the surf. Police is on the way, you know, she`s scaring the children, this wasn`t safe, and one of the kids was on her lap fighting her for the steering wheel. You know, the kid in the back was hollering, "please help us, please help us, our mother is trying to kill us." The mother turned around and looked at me and Stacy and said, we`re going to be okay. You know, we`re going to be fine. And she turned back around and she made that hard left into the ocean, and it was -- from that point we had to do something. You know, we had to get those kids out. That`s all we cared about.
GRACE: So there was one of the children up in the front seat, Mr. Tesseneer, fighting the mom for the steering wheel?
TESSENEER: Yes, ma`am. She was -- I think it was the oldest child. If I remember correctly, it was a boy trying to pull the steering wheel to the right away from the surf and wrestling his mom. He was almost on her lap wrestling her for the steering wheel at that point. It was crazy.
GRACE: What was the mom doing with the child trying to wrestle the car away from the water?
TESSENEER: She was just overpowering the child. She had both hands on the steering wheel, you know, just white knuckling it, just trying to overpower the child. When she turned around to spoke to Stacy and I, she made the hard left turn where she was -- she drove straight in, into the water.
GRACE: When you approached the minivan and people were trying to rescue the children, what, if anything, did you observe the mother doing?
TESSENEER: She wasn`t doing nothing except for holding the steering wheel and she kept repeating, we`re going to be okay, we`re going to be fine. And we kept trying to talk to her. Ma`am, this is dangerous, you`re scaring the children. Both kids were crying. We didn`t even realize there was a third one in the seat at this time. They were screaming for help and crying, they were really upset. When the van went left, we both backed away for a second, and then we realized, she`s not playing, this is for real, this is no joke. We had to get the kids out. At this time --
GRACE: Did you see the mother get out of the car?
TESSENEER: Eventually she ended up -- she jumped out the window -- Stacy stayed hooked to the van and got ahold of the power windows and got the windows down. I got the hatch to open. Luckily, I hit the button and it beeped and opened right up, so I tried to go through the back. And the lifeguard had gotten down there at this time. Stacy already had two kids out, and we thought that was it. And then the kids were screaming over Stacy`s back, there`s a baby, there`s a baby, and Stacy hollered back at me, there`s a baby, get the baby. And I hollered back at the lifeguard, and he was already wrestling her, the mother. He was trying to get back into the driver`s door and she was actually pulling him away from the vehicle, trying to keep him from rescuing the child.
GRACE: Okay. So you`re carrying the two children away from the minivan, you send the lifeguard back. That`s you carrying the two children away from the danger. You send the lifeguard back. He`s trying to get in the door. She actually, what, pushes him away from the door, the mom pushes the rescuer away from her child?
TESSENEER: Yes. Stacy Robinson had the two children, not I.
GRACE: Right.
TESSENEER: He went through the passenger side. I was in the back. Stacy had the kids, and he had both kids, and then I went through trying to go through the back trying to get the baby at this point, and then she was wrestling the lifeguard. She finally just gave up and she just went walking on the beach, you know, no expression whatsoever.
GRACE: What did she say after, Tim? With me Tim Tesseneer, one of the good Samaritans that saved those children from a watery grave. Tim, what did she say after?
TESSENEER: She never spoke. Last I heard, she still hadn`t spoken to anybody. So I don`t know. It`s been a couple of days since I`ve heard anything. Up until she was charged, she hadn`t spoke.
GRACE: Actually, she is being held on $1.2 million bond, Michael Christian, and to be held on bond you have to have a charge against you. So it`s my understanding, Michael Christian, that it`s three counts of attempted homicide.
CHRISTIAN: They`re talking about three counts, as you say, of first degree attempted murder, also three counts of child abuse, Nancy. Police talked to those kids. Those kids said that their mother told them, quote, she was taking them to a safer place. She told her three children to close their eyes and go to sleep.
GRACE: At this hour, she is being held on $1.2 million bond on three charges of attempted homicide on her own children.
When we come back, a reality TV star gets a dose of actual reality. The star is dragged into court on serious assault charges.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: A reality TV star gets a dose of actual reality as the star is dragged into court on serious assault charges. We have the video.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No solo today!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Star of the show "Dance Moms" got into a brawl, and it was all caught on camera.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That is from Lifetime`s "Dance Moms." OK. We`re taking your calls. To Dylan Howard, editor in chief, Radaronline.com. In a nutshell, this is a very highly rated reality show, "Dance Moms," where all these moms are pushing their girls to be the elite dance corps of the future. Dylan, how did a fight break out between two mothers?
HOWARD: Well, this is real reality. This show is predicated off the fact that women, mothers, clash with the alleged victim in this incident, Abby Lee Miller, the star of the program, and in this particular incident, what took place was a fight between Kelly Hyland, the woman charged in this incident, and Miller, over the role that one of her daughters would play in this particular dance recital, the 15-year-old Brook. As a result of that, as you saw in that stunning video, an altercation between the pair in front of children, one which has had its courtroom sequel.
GRACE: Joining me right now, special guest Michael Shapiro, attorney for Kelly Hyland. What happened with your client?
MICHAEL SHAPIRO, ATTORNEY: Listen, this is really a much larger issue. It`s the issue of parents protecting their children. And the larger issue is does television have the right to trample on the rights of children for television ratings.
GRACE: Wait. Your client has her child on the air. I don`t even -- don`t blurt that out in court, for Pete`s sake. That won`t help your client at all. If anybody is taking advantage of her, you`re trying to say it`s Lifetime doing it. Your client is doing it, it`s her daughter. Which one is your client? Which one is she?
(CROSSTALK)
SHAPIRO: Is it my turn to talk or is it your turn to talk?
GRACE: Oh, so that`s the way we`re going to play. There she is. I just wanted to make sure I knew who your client was. Go ahead, Michael.
SHAPIRO: The fact of the matter is, this is a mother observing a pattern of horrible behavior toward her child, including the violation of child labor laws in the state of Pennsylvania for the purposes of ratings.
GRACE: Is this your client or Abby Lee Miller?
SHAPIRO: Abby Lee Miller and the show and the producers were violating local statutes on how children are to be treated on television shows.
GRACE: Can I ask then if they`re the ones doing that, why hasn`t your client sued them or reported them? Why is it your client that`s charged with assault?
SHAPIRO: Well, as a matter of fact, that`s what our lawsuit`s about.
GRACE: Tell me.
SHAPIRO: If you would take the time to read it, you would find out. Is it my turn to talk or is it your turn to talk?
GRACE: You know what, it`s my turn. Your client, Kelly Hyland, daughters Brook 15, Page 13, were in Miller`s class, and your client, Kelly Hyland, pled not guilty. She was ordered to stay away from Abby Lee Miller, and now she files a million-dollar lawsuit against Miller and the show producers. Let me ask you this, Mr. Shapiro, when did she file the lawsuit?
SHAPIRO: I did.
GRACE: When did she file the lawsuit?
SHAPIRO: We filed, I don`t have the file in front of me, but within the last 60 days, yes.
GRACE: Was it before or after she was charged with attacking Abby Lee Miller?
SHAPIRO: Afterwards.
GRACE: So your client is charged with a physical attack, and it`s on video -- could we roll the video, please -- and after that she`s suing the show`s producers and Miller.
SHAPIRO: That`s exactly right. You`ve got that right.
GRACE: OK. What was the fight about, Mr. Shapiro?
SHAPIRO: It was about not watching her daughter be abused by Ms. Miller and this show, and exploited by them for the purpose of making money to get high television ratings.
GRACE: When you say exploited, what do you mean, Michael?
SHAPIRO: How much clearer could I be?
GRACE: Well, were they baiting her, were they sexually abusing her? Did they make her work 24, 23 hours a day in a sweatshop with a needle and thread in a sweatshop? When I say exploiting her, what were they doing to exploit her?
SHAPIRO: Is it my turn to answer?
GRACE: Okay, forget it. Unleash the lawyers. Peter Odom, Mo Ivory, Alex Sanchez. First, Justin Freiman, what is the claim, after she gets charged with beating another mom, this one right there, pointing her finger, they file a million-dollar lawsuit. What does the suit allege, Justin, in a nutshell?
FREIMAN: The suit alleges that the show mistreated the children and was exploiting them by making them work very long hours.
GRACE: So long hours. All right. Greg Cason, psychologist, joining me out of L.A. and the lawyers. Greg, it seems to me if they`re working long hours, the mothers, including Kelly Hyland, let it happen.
CASON: Absolutely. I think most of the responsibility goes on the mother here, because she`s the one that can pull her child out at any moment. So the mother really has a responsibility, and she is the one that actually threw the first punch. No matter what happened.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Reality star gets a dose of reality in court. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you just sit here and say that my daughter looks miserable so maybe we should Khalani (ph) in her place?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I didn`t say that. Listen! I said Brook is your mother --
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Get away from me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Girls, out of the room.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Well, they didn`t learn that at charm school. Mo Ivory, Peter Odom, Alex Sanchez. Also with me special guest, lawyer for Kelly Hyland, Michael Shapiro. You were just seeing video from Lifetime`s "Dance Moms." Peter Odom, I want to hear your defense because it sounds like the fight was because her daughter was going to be replaced. And I guess at the recital or whatever, she was going to be replaced. It wasn`t about child work laws.
ODOM: Well, here`s the defense, Nancy. First of all, this is just an orgy of exploitation. The mothers exploit the children in these dance routines, television exploits the mothers. Now Mr. Shapiro, with all due respect, is exploiting the legal system and exploiting these two mothers for having this fight.
GRACE: You are saying Shapiro is exploiting the system? You`ve never filed a lawsuit for too much money?
ODOM: For $5 million for what you`re seeing there?
GRACE: Don`t lie, don`t lie, Peter Odom. I can`t believe it. You`re telling another lawyer he`s exploiting the system?
ODOM: If I might, please, here`s the defense. Consent, consent.
GRACE: I got it. It took you a long time to get that one word out. All right, Sanchez, defense.
SANCHEZ: I`m just looking at the fight on screen. What I see is a potential self-defense claim.
GRACE: Self-defense. OK. I didn`t see that coming.
SANCHEZ: It appears to me from what I see this Miss Miller was kind of getting close to her and opening up her mouth. Maybe there`s a self- defense claim there. I don`t know if you`ve ever been bitten, but it hurts.
IVORY: There`s no self-defense. What this is is a mother exploiting her child, and everybody else participating in it for 15 minutes of fame and a paycheck. That`s what this is about.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: A reality star in court. Take a look at this.
(VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: That is from Lifetime`s "Dance Moms." With me Michael Shapiro, attorney for Kelly Hyland. She was one of the ladies fighting in that segment. Mo Ivory, Peter Odom, Alex Sanchez, Greg Cason, it seems to me -- let`s go to Sanchez. It seems to me that the girls want the limelight as well. Some of them are 16 years old. Others younger. But they`re using this, they`re using this, too. So it`s going to be tough to go with child labor laws.
SANCHEZ: Yes, I think that`s a lot of nonsense. You know, these people on these shows, they`d do anything for publicity. And I`m wondering whether or not in the back of their minds there was some -- almost an idea, listen, let`s have a little confrontation here because it`s good for the show and ultimately good for us.
IVORY: Nancy, it`s only reality when the reality finds you in court. That`s the only reality about it.
GRACE: What about it, Odom? What about the defense that it was all staged?
ODOM: These shows are all staged. They`re not reality.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I doubt that was staged.
GRACE: I don`t believe that fight was staged. I`m going to let them hash it out in court. I`ll thank you, especially Michael Shapiro, attorney for Kelly Hyland. Mo Ivory, Peter Odom, Alex Sanchez, Greg Cason and Dylan Howard.
Everyone, let`s stop and remember American hero, Army Private First Class Marcus Tynes, just 19. Moreno Valley, California. Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Combat Infantry Badge, loves sports and he dreamed of being an LAPD S.W.A.T. Officer. Parents Marcus Sr. and Dana, stepfather Bruce. Five siblings. Marcus Tynes, American hero.
Tonight, happy anniversary to show friends Ann and Chuck Lynch, married 57 years today. And happy birthday to Gene, husband and father. Isn`t he handsome? Drew up next, everyone, see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
