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Nancy Grace
Pot Princess Kills 2 in Car Crash; Toddlers Smoke Pot on Tape
Aired March 11, 2014 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Coral Springs, Florida. Thousands of cars, millions of people on Florida`s Sawgrass Expressway when along comes 20-year-old self-titled pot princess, who plows into high school two best friends, the girls suffering agonizing pain before both dead. Tonight, reports the pot princess tweeting just before she crashes in a fiery blaze into the two high school best friends, I`m too wasted to care.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Marisa Catronio and her best friend, Kaitlyn Ferrante, killed when a car driven the wrong way on the Sawgrass Expressway crashed into their car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The accused wrong-way driver, 20-year-old Kayla Mendoza, who survived. Just two-and-a-half hours before the deadly crash, she tweeted, "2 drunk 2 care."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are aware of that tweet.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This young lady is going to suffer the consequences of her actions and her statements.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, pot tots caught on tape, not one, not two but three tiny children. Live, Arizona. A 10-month-old baby girl sitting in a dirty diaper cries for Mommy. But instead of changing the diaper, Mommy pulls the little girl upside down by the seat, beating the baby`s legs and face, cursing the baby out, then takes a big toke of weed and blows pot directly into the baby`s mouth, the Mommy so stoned, she doesn`t notice the cell phone camera is rolling. Mommy, you`re busted! We have the video.
And Washington state. A toddler boy just 22 months old hitting on a bong filled with pot. Where`s Mommy? Oh, she`s holding the bong for the baby to get (INAUDIBLE) high while her stoned-out friends tape the whole thing on video. That`s real funny.
Also, in Ohio, a pawn shop gets a shock of a lifetime, a pawned camcorder revealing an 18-month-old baby girl being physically forced to smoke from a marijuana pipe. But little do they know this accidental pot video connected to one of the biggest drug busts in Ohio history.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The cell phone video is pretty hard to watch.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jessica (ph) even blew marijuana smoke in the baby`s mouth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And Minnesota, a sleazy divorce lawyer already billing clients out the ying-yang actually billed his female divorce client his hourly rate for having sex! With her!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: According to court documents, attorney Thomas Lowe (ph) had an affair with a woman he was representing in a divorce. Lowe didn`t just bill his client for his legal services, he also billed her for time spent having sex with her, but it could cost his him job -- indefinitely.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And Indianapolis, parents` hearts broken when they get the awful news their children, four little toddlers, overdosed at day care.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At the Stay and Play Day Care, the children, ages 11 months to 5 years old, went to the emergency room showing signs of drug overdose.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shocked. Absolutely.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The family and social services administration have taken action against Gribble (ph) multiple times for operating illegal...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight, to Coral Springs, Florida. Thousands of cars, millions of people on Florida`s Sawgrass Expressway when along comes the 20-year-old self-titled pot princess. Her words, not mine. The pot princess plows into two high school best friends, the girls suffering agonizing pain before both of them dead. Of course, the driver lives.
Tonight, reports the pot princess tweeting just before she crashes in a fiery blaze, I`m too wasted to care.
With me right now, Joel Malkin from WJNO. Joel, I`m stunned because as we go to air tonight, the pot princess, a 20-year-old Kayla, has not even been arrested, and the other two girls are dead?
JOEL MALKIN, WJNO ((via telephone): She has not been charged, but the investigation continues. The Florida Highway Patrol says these types of cases typically take months. Unless they`re concerned about a flight risk, if this was somebody who was a -- you know, a millionaire and could just fly on their private jet and go away, they don`t make arrests...
GRACE: What?
MALKIN: ... until the investigation is complete.
GRACE: Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Whoa-whoa! That is totally bass- ackwards because every jurisdiction I`ve ever been in, when two people are dead from somebody that`s got pot in their system behind the wheel, and it`s their fault -- she crashed into them head on. She`s high on pot, all right?
MALKIN: Yes.
GRACE: The arrest would take place, then the investigation would continue. And she could either stay behind bars or make bond until it goes to a grand jury. That`s the way it`s done. I`m just overwhelmed!
Joining me right now, special guest Christine Ferrante, the mother of crash victim Kaitlyn Ferrante. Mrs. Ferrante, thank you for being with us. I cannot -- being the mom of a daughter and a son, I cannot even imagine what you have been through. I mean, I dream about it when I go home from the show at night because I`ve covered all these cases. I dream about my twins being hurt.
But how did you find out about your daughter`s crash?
CHRISTINE FERRANTE, VICTIM`S MOTHER: It was about 4:00, 4:30 in the morning, Sunday morning, and I got a knock on my front door by two Coral Springs police officers telling me that my daughter had been in a severe accident and was in emergency surgery as we spoke. As they were letting me know, my daughter was already in emergency surgery.
GRACE: So they knocked on your door, you said?
FERRANTE: Yes.
GRACE: When you opened that door up and you saw the Florida state patrol, what did you think?
FERRANTE: My heart dropped. I knew it wasn`t good because it`s 4:00 o`clock in the morning. I knew it couldn`t be good.
GRACE: You know, Ms. Ferrante, just hearing you describe that, I`m just imagining. I can still remember the moment I got the message to make a phone call, and I knew right at that moment that my fiance was dead. I didn`t know why. I didn`t know how. I had no idea he had been the victim of gun violence. But like you said, when you open that door and you see them standing there -- when I saw that note, that piece of paper, I just knew.
So she was in surgery at the moment that they knocked on your door. When did you learn that a girl who calls herself the "pot princess" was driving along the busy Sawgrass and hit and crashed head on with your daughter? How did you learn that she was high on pot at the time? Not your daughter, Kayla Mendoza.
FERRANTE: She was -- I found out she was two times the legal limit. She was drunk. I found that out once I got to the hospital that she was drunk and high on pot.
GRACE: Everyone, we are taking your calls. Joining me right now, addiction specialist and founder of Breathe Life Healing Centers Brad Lamm joining me. Also with me, the president of NORML, National Association -- Organization for Reform of Marijuana Laws -- he wants marijuana legalized across the country -- Norm Kent is with us.
OK, Norm Kent, when Colorado and other states began legalizing marijuana for recreational amounts -- I am not referring to medical marijuana. You`re all for that now. The seeds you sowed are bearing fruit, and we are seeing more and more pot crimes. You still think it`s OK, Norm?
NORM KENT, NORML: I think that the millions of Americans that seek to legalize marijuana and use it responsibly are entitled to their day.
GRACE: No, I want you to...
KENT: The tragedy you described here...
GRACE: ... address this.
KENT: ... in my hometown -- the tragedy you describe here in my hometown was a young girl who was clearly impaired and intoxicated, driving two times the legal limit. There is no indication...
GRACE: She had pot in her system.
KENT: Yes, but you know, you could have ice cream in your system for 20 days, it doesn`t mean you`re impaired...
GRACE: She had pot in her system!
KENT: ... by ice cream.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Just before the crash, she tweeted -- gentlemen, wait!
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Gentlemen, don`t make me cut his mike in A segment, please, Liz. Just before this crash, Norm...
KENT: You`ll wait for the B segment for that.
GRACE: You know, you can laugh -- you can laugh all you want to, but as a crime victim myself, I don`t think it`s funny at all because just before she crashed head on into these two girls, she tweets out, Too drunk, too stoned, too wasted to care, something like that.
So Brad Lamm, she was high. She had been smoking pot. On her Web site, on her Facebook, she`s all about pot, calling herself the pot princess. And now two girls are dead...
BRAD LAMM, ADDICTION SPECIALIST: Nancy...
GRACE: ... and a mother walks up and down the hallway every night wondering, What happened to my girl? You know -- I don`t know, I know you don`t have children, Brad, but I don`t know about you, Norm Kent, but the thought that somebody could get high on pot and kill one of my children? I don`t know how she`s even sitting up in her chair! I don`t even know how...
LAMM: Nancy...
GRACE: ... she puts her clothes on and brushes her teeth in the morning! What?
LAMM: This is the collateral damage -- this is the collateral damage from pot laws exploding across the country. There are hundreds of thousands of people that will struggle and have their lives ruined because of their relationship with pot. So Norm can laugh about ice cream...
GRACE: Brad Lamm...
LAMM: ... and make another joke about legalization...
GRACE: Brad? Brad?
LAMM: ... but the truth is...
GRACE: I appreciate...
LAMM: ... I got to deal with six...
GRACE: ... all your talk about, you know, society`s problems. I want to talk about this girl. These two girls are dead because this girl...
LAMM: No. And Nancy, I...
GRACE: ... the pot princess...
LAMM: ... meet these parents all the time.
GRACE: ... high on pot, killed them!
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: She`s not even charged yet!
LAMM: I meet these parents all the time, and I`m outraged by this knucklehead, again, who makes a joke about ice cream when a mom is sitting here talking about her dead daughter.
GRACE: Clark Goldband, she`s not even charged...
KENT: Brad, you are more cogent -- Brad, you are more cogent and capable of responding intelligently than trying to demean me as a knucklehead. That only brings you down.
GRACE: OK, stop!
(CROSSTALK)
LAMM: ... it`s appropriate to make a joke about ice cream...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: OK, cut their mikes. Clark Goldband, what can you tell me?
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: When we asked authorities why, they said they are still assembling the final arrest report and are taking their time. But you see it behind me. Here`s that tweet that she allegedly made before the crash, "2 drunk 2 care." Take a look at this. Here`s what`s important. The alleged time this was posted, 11:03. And guess what? The crash was just about two-and-a-half hours later. A few days before, we see, "2 high 2 care." And these alleged tweets continue in similar fashion.
GRACE: Did you hear that, Norm Kent? Brad Lamm, "2 high 2 care," and now two girls are dead, and I`ve got a mother, Christine Ferrante, grieving...
(CROSSTALK)
KENT: And you are misleading people into thinking that marijuana was the cause of that accident, rather than her negligence in being intoxicated by alcohol.
LAMM: How do you know that?
KENT: And that`s unfair to millions of Americans who smoke pot...
LAMM: How do you know that, Norm?
KENT: ... reasonably every day.
LAMM: How are you the judge and jury to say how pot affected that girl that cost two people their lives and ruined many lives? How do you know that?
KENT: I`m not the judge and jury, but...
LAMM: You`re just making it up like...
KENT: ... but the toxicology report...
LAMM: ... other stuff you make up.
KENT: No! No, because...
GRACE: OK, stop! To Joel Malkin...
KENT: ... you can have pot in your system...
GRACE: ... joining me from WJNO.
KENT: ... for 24 days. It doesn`t mean you`re impaired.
GRACE: Joel -- I keep hearing Norm. Joel, isn`t it true that the toxicology reports say not only did she have alcohol in her system, but she had pot in her system. That`s a yes-no, Joel.
MALKIN: Yes, there were traces of marijuana in her system.
GRACE: OK, Ms. Ferrante, I`ve got so many questions to ask you, but I guess the main one is, how do you keep going after this has happened to your girl and knowing that this Kayla Mendoza has not even been charged yet?
FERRANTE: I keep going because my daughter and Marisa -- I am the voice. Our families, the Catronios and the Ferrantes, we are the girls` voices. I have two children, Ashley (ph), Kaitlyn`s sister, and Niko (ph), Kaitlyn`s brother. I have to be strong for them.
GRACE: When we come back, not one, not two but three tiny children, toddlers, pot tots on tape!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Not one, not two, but three tiny children forced to smoke pot. Pot tots caught on tape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can see what looks like a toddler trying to get away, but she was held down while the man puffs on the pipe. Here he puts the pipe to her mouth. Then a short time later, the little girl was seen coughing and trying to speak.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She coughs, and people can be heard laughing. The boy`s mother was arrested for allegedly giving the child the pot. Police raided the mother`s home. They found a marijuana grow of 40 plants.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To news anchor Noam Laden. You know, you hear adults laughing in the background on a lot of this. Let`s start with Melvin Blevins (ph) and his girlfriend. This is very difficult to watch. Look at this. They make the child turn around. They make the child lay down and force it -- the child`s trying to get up -- they force the baby to smoke pot.
Noam, I believe the little girl is a relative of the perpetrator and his girlfriend?
NOAM LADEN, WABC RADIO (via telephone): It is. It`s Melvin`s niece. And so you sort of wonder, like...
GRACE: Awful!
LADEN: ... who knowing this guy -- Melvin`s a low-level drug dealer - - knowing this guy...
GRACE: And there he is...
LADEN: ... how they can let him babysit them, and...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I can`t believe it! I think the mom and dad need to be thrown in jail, too, for letting this creep babysit. We just saw a photo of him in all his glory and splendor.
All right, Brad Lamm, Norm Kent -- what about it, Norm? You keep talking about how it`s OK to smoke pot in your own home. I guess you`d extend that to toddler girls?
KENT: No, Nancy. We may agree on something because, Nancy, joints like this are meant to be smoked by adults like you and me, not by children, and they shouldn`t be distributed or disseminated to children. That`s not what NORML stands for. We`re for the responsible use...
GRACE: Brad Lamm...
KENT: ... and the reform of marijuana laws.
GRACE: ... I`d like to go to you without any props, such as, you know, some weed -- like you think I`m shocked by you, Norm Kent? It`s a pathetic ploy. Brad, the reality is when you have people smoking pot in the home and it`s legalized, the law doesn`t say just for really super- intelligent people with degrees, like Brad Lamm and Norm Kent. No. Everybody has access to weed at home, and this is what happens. Not just good people get weed at home, everybody can have weed at home, and this is what happens!
LAMM: And Nancy, addiction and an out-of-control life cuts across all socioeconomic, educational levels. You can be a Harvard grad and get hooked on weed and have your life fall apart. So this is a family that uses pot, and they do dumb things. Is it a surprise? Absolutely not. Is it heartbreaking? Absolutely, yes.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Shireen Hormozdi, Jeff Gold. All right, Shireen, what about it? What`s your defense? According to Norm, it`s OK for pot to be legal. What about this? This is the obvious result of legalization of pot.
SHIREEN HORMOZDI, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: These are irresponsible parents. What`s the difference between these parents giving their child beer as opposed to pot? It`s irresponsible parenting, not the marijuana.
GRACE: OK, so those are my two choices, Jeff Gold? I can either feed my children pot or booze? What about it`s illegal? How about that (INAUDIBLE) Gold?
JEFF GOLD, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: There`s no relationship between the legalization and this case. Everybody can get pot right now. It is not very difficult to do. I`ve been a criminal defense attorney for over 30 years. I`m going to tell you, anybody can get pot.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is not the first time, and tragically not the last, that tots allegedly forced by parents to smoke marijuana.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A cell phone captured video of her teaching her 2-year-old how to smoke pot.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The people behind the camera seem determined to give the baby the drug. She shakes her head no.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This home video shows a 2 and a 4-year-old boy smoking pot.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... this video of Gamble`s (ph) child and upset by how at ease the child seems to be with the joint.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The other disturbing video allegedly showing toddlers forced to smoke pot.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This little boy is just 2 years old, and yes, he is smoking a cigar. Not just any cigar, police say it`s pot.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And yet another child caught on video. There he is. That`s Mommy holding the pot -- that`s Mommy holding the bong as her friends laugh in the background.
Bethany Marshall, what is going on?
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: You know, Nancy, I disagree with the entire panel. This is not about pot, this is not about bad parenting, this is about child abuse. These are egregious parents.
Why do they want to render this child into a passive state? Do they want to sexually abuse her? Do they want to skip a meal? Do they want to take advantage of her in other ways? I think there is a larger pattern of abuse and neglect.
GRACE: Hey, Bethany, wait until you see this. Wait until you see that. Now, there is a case where the mom is actually beating the child on the legs and making the child smoke pot. Look at this. This is a 10- month-old child. Look at this home.
MARSHALL: Nancy...
GRACE: The baby is crying -- the baby`s crying, she`s speaking, You`ve got to shut up, to the baby. She`s hitting the baby.
MARSHALL: That...
GRACE: Look at this video. I know you don`t want to look at it, but this is what`s happening with everybody high on weed. Start, and I`m going to kick you in the f-ing face? That`s what she`s saying to her 10-month- old baby girl, Laura (ph)? You know, I want to kick her in the f-ing face! That`s what I want to do.
MARSHALL: Nancy...
GRACE: Then she forces the child...
MARSHALL: When I...
GRACE: She slaps her, spanks her and then blows marijuana smoke right into her face, into her mouth.
MARSHALL: Nancy, when I first read the wires and I heard about this story, my first thought was this isn`t about pot, this is about hate towards a child. These parents have malice towards these children. They hate the children.
What else is going on? Physical abuse, neglect, sexual abuse? You know, why do you want to get a child high other than because you either want to take advantage of them, you want to not have to feed them, you want to perform some sadistic or ritualistic abusive act on them? I mean, this is child abuse, plain and simple!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Many people would have you believe, including the organization to legalize marijuana, that it`s OK for everyone to smoke pot, and that`s allowed. It`s condoned. Take a look at this video I`m showing you. This is a mom high, stoned on pot, beating her baby when the baby cries with a wet diaper. I`m going to kick you in the f-ing face. And then after the little baby crying. She never changes the baby`s diaper. Instead she beats it in the legs, the face, the arms. I can hardly stand to even look at it. And then after beating the baby, it culminates with the mom blowing marijuana smoke directly into the baby`s mouth. It gets me so upset I can hardly stand to look at it.
Justin Freiman, what more do we know about this mother? Please tell me she`s in jail.
FREIMAN: Well, this child was taken right from her custody, tests were being done on her, and she was put into jail.
GRACE: Norm Kent, Brad Lamm -- instead of -- thanks, mom. Instead of letting Norm Kent get tuned up, Brad Lamm, I`m going to go to you first. Response?
LAMM: He does just start talking and keeps talking, doesn`t he? You know, this is the truth. If you`re smoking pot when you`re a teenager, you will be -- 20 percent of those kids will have a real problem and get addicted to pot later in life. If you start later in life, about 10 percent. So all the talk about pot being innocuous and about it not being a problem, just not true, to all my parents out there. Some of my sickest clients that come into Breathe these day are primary pot smokers. They get hooked, they get sick, and they lose a lot.
GRACE: Norm, I want to hear your defense.
KENT: Let`s have Brad Lamm, who was addicted to methamphetamine, give America advice on why not to smoke marijuana. If Brad had just stayed with marijuana and cannabis--
GRACE: You know what, if you`ve never done anything wrong, you throw the first stone. In fact, him having been an addict and now is clean and has opened the Breathe Life center to help other addicts, I think is commendable. You may look down on him if you want to, but I want to hear you talk about these parents, these parents that smoke pot and let their children, and force their children to smoke pot. That`s what we`re talking about. We`re not here to ridicule what Brad Lamm did 20 years ago.
KENT: Then maybe Brad shouldn`t be calling me a knucklehead in every segment. I respect what he does, he ought to respect what I do.
LAMM: I don`t -- I don`t -- Norm, I don`t respect what you do.
(CROSSTALK)
KENT: -- millions of Americans going to jail, I don`t want three- quarters of Americans here going to jail for possession of marijuana.
LAMM: I don`t want either, I want people to get treatment. But your talking points that pot is innocuous and isn`t a problem is just bull. It`s untrue. So what do you want me to call you, a liar?
GRACE: I think the video speaks for itself. To Dr. Tim Gallagher, forensic pathologist, medical examiner, forcing these children. Let`s roll the other video, Liz. There`s so much of it, we just picked these three. Dr. Gallagher, what does it do to a child to be forced to smoke pot repeatedly as a toddler?
GALLAGHER: Well, we have to understand, Nancy, that these are developing lungs that are within these toddlers, and the effects of marijuana smoke can actually prevent the lungs from developing to their full potential, leading to things in the future like emphysema, perhaps an exacerbation of an asthmatic condition, even comes with an increased risk of lung cancer. But these are very real problems that would occur.
GRACE: With me Dr. Tim Gallagher. Justin Freiman, what can you tell me about Richelle Braiden (ph)?
FREIMAN: Nancy, what really frightens me about this story is that according to prosecutors, there was a lot of people there at the time. This wasn`t the first time this child had pot. Actually, someone in that group while this video was being taken says, quote, he does this every time.
GRACE: And there she is, Richelle Braiden, 24, also has a five-year- old child. What`s interesting to me, Norm Kent, Brad Lamm, let`s bring in the lawyers. All these people were standing by, and nobody did a thing. Nobody did a thing. They sat there and watched this mom, Richelle Braiden, as she apparently does it every day, Shireen, forcing her child to smoke pot, giving him the bong. What`s your defense?
HORMUZDI: These are young and immature parents, and what they did was wrong.
GRACE: 24. When I was 24, I was in law school and had three jobs. My father was across the country in the Navy defending his country, and my mom had a job and two children and one on the way. Now, what were you saying? She`s 25?
HORMUZDI: These are young, immature parents, but substitute beer for the bong. Are you going to call for prohibition of alcohol? Should we go back to that?
GRACE: Shut up. Every time I ask you a question, the first thing that comes out of your mouth is beer. Did I ask you a question about beer? No, I did not.
HORMUZDI: You`re calling for the criminalization of marijuana across the board here, and that`s the problem here.
GRACE: No, I`m not. I`m saying it`s irresponsible to allow recreational marijuana to be legal, to be legal in this country, because you just saw the video, Shireen. I just don`t understand how you can sit by and act like it`s okay. And Jeff Gold, my original question that she danced around. What about all the people standing around watching it happen, doing nothing?
GOLD: I think they`re guilty of child abuse as well by omission. Nancy, you`re the country`s leading legal analyst, but you`re making too much of this in terms of legalization of pot. These cases with abuse, it`s about abuse. There are other cases where individuals give alcohol to little babies. This is about abuse.
GRACE: Okay, stop. Brad Lamm, why is it that every time we talk about this, everybody`s answer is, well, it`s no worse than alcohol. Are those my only two choices in life? I get my kid high on pot or I get it drunk on alcohol?
LAMM: Or the other thing to excuse it away and minimize it is it`s no worse than giving a child some whiskey at night to help them sleep. Look, both of them are wrong, and both of them are more frequently occurring in homes where people are impaired and having trouble with chemical dependency.
The messaging around pot legalization is simply that pot is not a big deal. And I know from the forefront of addiction and recovery in the United States that pot is a big deal. That`s my message, Nancy, and that`s why, Norm, I think your messaging is untrue and you`re a knucklehead. So no offense.
KENT: My messaging --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: No K word, Brad Lamm. No calling people names, Brad Lamm. I feel like I`m with my twins in the backseat of the minivan. Brad, remember that --
KENT: You`ve got a child to talk to there.
GRACE: Remember that text you sent me the other night about that guy that had just come into your clinic and -- could you just share that?
LAMM: Some of the sickest clients that are coming in to Breathe these days, Norm, and this is from the front, this is not for people that are doing just fine on pot. Maybe that`s the population you talk to. The people I talk to are moms and dads and brothers and sisters who have a loved one that are dying from the weight of an addiction to marijuana.
KENT: Let me share with you the population I`m talking to. I`m talking about people whose lives are interrupted by getting arrested, thrown into cages, forced to post bonds, facing jail --
GRACE: I`ve got an answer for that.
KENT: And getting locked up. Three-quarters of a million people unjustly. Nancy, what I am ultimately talking about is -- what I am ultimately talking about, Nancy, and you know this more than anybody, is personal liberty.
(CROSSTALK)
KENT: Individual freedom.
GRACE: Stop.
When we come back, a sleazy divorce lawyer already billing clients out the ying-yang actually bills his female divorce client his hourly rate for having sex! With her!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: And now in Minnesota, a sleazy divorce lawyer already billing clients out the ying-yang actually billed his female divorce client his hourly rate for having sex with her!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A married Minnesota lawyer had sex with his client and billed her for the time. Attorney Thomas Lowe had an affair with a woman he was representing in a divorce. According to court documents, a few days later, the married lawyer contacted his client asking about her sexual relationship with her husband, and if she was interested in sex with him. And now the attorney has been suspended but could be reinstated very soon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We contacted the lawyer, and this is what he says. He charges $250 an hour, and he bills his female client -- I don`t know how long it was, maybe an hour, maybe two or three minutes, I don`t know -- but his response when we called him, "I have no idea why you think this is a story. The press release goes out 14 months ago. It`s not headline news, in my opinion. And that`s why nobody watches CNN," because we`re doing a story on him. That`s what he had to say. Not I`m sorry, I did this because of x, y and z, I`m in rehab, nothing. Justin Freiman, what happened?
FREIMAN: A woman that he`s known for quite some time comes to him, has him represent her in a divorce case. This lawyer is married, and the two of them end up having an affair, and he charges her for times they were spending together having sex.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Tracy in Virginia. Hi, Tracy, what`s your question?
CALLER: Nancy, I was just wondering, why are we seeing so many more cases like this now? It just seems the more you turn on the news, the more you`re seeing people who are supposed to be here to help defend our people, they`re abusing their wives, and I don`t understand. It`s like everybody is losing their morals now or they`re not as good as they used to be at hiding it?
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. But first to Dan O`Donnell, anchor with News Talk WISN. Dan, he doesn`t seem very remorseful. What happened to this guy other than billing his female divorce client for having sex with her?
O`DONNELL: Well, the Minnesota Supreme Court suspended his law license for a minimum of 15 months.
GRACE: Everybody, I wonder if she knows that in her nearly $4,000 bill, if part of that money was for sex. Justin Freiman, tell us about how the lawyer billed for the sex.
FREIMAN: Nancy, we`ve totaled up $900 billed for the sex. On September 15, 2011, the couple met at a hotel and had sex. He billed $75 for meeting with the client and drafting a memo. On September the 22nd of 2011, again they met at a hotel, had sex. He billed for $50 for the meeting and revising a divorce petition. On October 6, the same year, they met at a hotel, had sex, she gets billed for $100 for meeting and drafting a memo to the file. October 25th of 2011, they had dinner in a restaurant, then they had sex in a car in that restaurant parking lot. He billed her for $100 for meeting and drafting a memo to the file. November 17 of 2011, they met at the client`s home, had sex, she gets billed for $250 for that meeting. March 1, 2012, they met at her home, had sex, billed $75 for the meeting. We totaled it up. It is $900 for time spent having sex.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Shireen Hormuzdi, Jeff Gold. All right, Jeff, what`s your defense?
GOLD: I have a question first. I wonder whether the ex-husband was paying that bill. In a lot of matrimonial cases, the husband is still stuck with paying for the wife`s bill. And I think he was--
GRACE: I don`t even know what you`re talking about. What difference does it make?
GOLD: I don`t know--
GRACE: Is that supposed to be a joke? You know what, never mind. Shireen, to you.
HORMUZDI: In his defense, the American Bar Association permits sexual relationships between an attorney and a client as long as they started before the relationship, the attorney-client relationship started.
GRACE: OK. That`s your defense. Okay.
HORMUZDI: The sex itself is not the problem.
GRACE: I asked what your defense was and you said, well, the ABA says it`s okay. All right, you know what, if that`s the law, then the law is an ass.
When we come back, four toddlers overdosed at daycare.
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GRACE: And now to Indianapolis. Parents heartbroken when they get the awful news their children, four toddlers, overdosed, O.D.`d at day care.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gribble (ph) owns and operates stay and play daycare at her Gemini Drive (ph) home on the east side of Indianapolis. Investigators say someone gave four children at the day care a combination of over the counter and prescription medications. The children, ages 11 months to 5 years, all went to the emergency room, showing signs of drug overdose.
The family and social services administration has taken action against Gribble multiple times for operating illegally at various locations.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stephanie Gribble is 10 miles away in a county cell. She`s accused of being neglectful while four children under her care overdosed on a prescription. They were rushed to a local hospital, where the children were treated for being unresponsive, drooling, and having difficulty walking. Gribble has been under investigation before, multiple times, for operating daycares illegally.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: See the kids out every once in a while playing. But nothing, I mean nothing out of the ordinary as far as kids and stuff.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pretty average?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pretty average.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Clark Goldband. Clark, I don`t even know what to say. The parents have to go to work, like all of us. They leave their children at day care, and the children were O.D.`d on what?
GOLDBAND: And you know, Nancy, the parents didn`t know what to say either, if you believe these allegations. From 11 months to five years of age, these parents started to notice their kids were drooling. There was one quote from a document from law enforcement, their child seemed drunk. Guess what? Authorities determined these kids were overdosed on the drug benadryl and resparitol, which sometimes is used in things like ADHD or psychotic problems. The drug has all kinds of uses.
GRACE: What was the name of it again, Clark?
GOLDBAND: I`m not a doctor here, but I think it`s resparitol.
GRACE: What is that? Dr. Bethany, Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, author of "Deal Breakers" with us, in addition to Dr. Tim Gallagher from Daytona Beach. Dr. Bethany, what is that?
MARSHALL: That is anti-psychotic medication, Nancy, and if those kids were coming home drooling and with these kinds of symptoms day after day, I think what these day care workers were doing with it is they were taking these kids, making money of them, overdosing them every day so they did not have to provide care. I mean, this is neglect on such an egregious level. And the fact is, who was this resparitol prescribed to? If it`s prescribed to somebody with a psychotic disorder, why is somebody with a psychotic disorder running a day care center?
GRACE: Well, according to the police, Dr. Gallagher, the children are three girls, one boy, were passed out. They looked drunk, and were drooling and passed out. Why, Dr. Gallagher?
GALLAGHER: This could be the combined effects of the benadryl and the risperidone. These are well known side effects of overdosing on the drug.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My 5-year-old came up, and she was asking me for a snack, and as she was walking towards me, she just started leaning over to her side, and she just started going down. She said, mommy, my back hurts. I wasn`t sure if she was playing or not. Her tongue was hanging out of her mouth. She was drooling. She couldn`t talk. She ended up falling asleep. And we couldn`t get her up for hours and hours. I questioned her about it. After all this happened I asked her about it, and the only thing she would tell me is she used the sleep paste (ph), she used to make her sleep all the time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I see the kids out every once in a while playing. But nothing -- I mean nothing out of the ordinary as far as, you know, kids and stuff.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gribble owns and operates Stay and Play day care out of her Gemini Drive home on the east side of Indianapolis. Investigators say someone gave four children at the day care a combination of over the counter and prescription medication. The children, ages 11 months to 5 years old, went to the emergency room showing signs of drug overdose. The family and social services administration had taken action against Gribble multiple times for operating illegally at various locations.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stephanie Gribble is ten miles away in a county cell. She`s accused of being neglectful while four children under her care overdosed on a prescription. They were rushed to a local hospital, where the children were treated for been unresponsive, drooling and having difficulty walking. Gribble has been under investigation before, multiple times, for operating day cares illegally.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Noam Laden, what more can you tell me?
LADEN: I can tell you what is really this sicko, Stephanie Gribble, she has opened and closed other day care centers, all of them by the way unlicensed by the state, yet, she was able to change the name of the center when they closed her down and reopen somewhere else.
GRACE: We remember American hero, Army Sergeant Jason McLeod, 22, Crystal Lake, Illinois. Army Commendation Medal, National Defense Service Medal. Loved video games and camping. Parents Barbara and Gregory, brother Justin, sister Jackie. Widow Amy. Daughter Jocelyn. Jason McLeod, American hero.
Drew up next. I`ll see you tomorrow. 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
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