Return to Transcripts main page
Nancy Grace
Woman`s Body Found on Trash Conveyor Belt; Wife Stabs Husband, Blames NASCAR
Aired March 18, 2014 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Live to Anaheim, just a stone`s throw to Disney. In the last hours, cops make a horrific discovery, the body of a 21-year-old woman, Jerrae Estepp, found dead, mixed with garbage on a trash conveyor belt where workers were set to separate trash from recyclables, cops working into the night tonight, trying to determine when her body was dumped and how it got there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A mom is dead. Police are now searching for her killer after her body is found on a trash conveyor belt, the body disposed of like garbage, in with thousands of pounds of waste!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live, Church Hill, Tennessee. A former star cheerleader marries to start a family, but then in the height of NASCAR racing season, she plows her Toyota Celica through the front door of the Province (ph) church, calls her husband. As soon as he gets there, she stabs him in the chest right there on the church altar, claiming hubby spends too much time watching NASCAR!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Twenty-three-year-old Stephanie Hamman drove through the building, then called her husband to come check on her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And when he went to check on her, she stabbed him in the right side of his chest with a knife.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why? She claims her husband was worshiping (ph) the NASCAR race, which made her mad.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Superstar TV king, author of countless books, spokesperson for countless products -- you can turn on your TV and see him any time of the day or night -- Kevin Trudeau heads to jail!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the man known as the king of infomercials, Kevin Trudeau.
KEVIN TRUDEAU, TV PITCHMAN: It`s my book, called "Kevin Trudeau`s Free Money They Don`t Want You to Know About." It`s streamlined and it`s simple.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A federal judge told Trudeau he spent more than two decades cheating others for his own personal gain.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Deceitful (ph) to the court (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let`s not mislead the public, Paula (ph).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And Phoenix, nearly 100,000 people rally to save an evil pitbull, Mickey (ph), after the brute viciously mauls this 4-year-old little boy nearly to death. Why? Supporters say because the tiny child, quote, "stole his bone"! What? They`re worried about a stolen dog bone when a little boy is nearly dead after having his face and body ripped to shreds by an evil pitbull?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) the dog fractured the child`s jaw, cheekbone and eye socket. Now thousands of people are defending the dog, a dog that nearly ripped a 4-year-old child`s face off!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And JonBenet Ramsey murder house on the block, the upscale Boulder mansion on sale for $2 million, the sellers actually advertising the basement where 6-year-old beauty queen JonBenet`s body found dead.
Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. To Anaheim. It`s just a stone`s throw from Disney. In the last hours, cops make a horrific discovery, the body of a 21-year-old girl, Jerrae Estepp, found dead, her body mixed with garbage on a trash conveyor belt where workers were set to separate trash from recyclables, cops working tonight into the night, trying to determine when the body was dumped and how it got there.
Joining me right now from Anaheim, special guest Lieutenant Tim Schmidt with the Anaheim Police Department. Lieutenant -- Liz, show the fields and fields of trash.
Lieutenant, when I found out about this case earlier, I saw -- just -- it`s like a vast wasteland of trash. It`s like football field after football field after football field. How in the world are you going to determine, Lieutenant Schmidt, when Jerrae Estepp was dumped there?
LT. TIM SCHMIDT, ANAHEIM POLICE DEPARTMENT (via telephone): Thank you for having us on the show. I appreciate the opportunity to share a story. It`s a very difficult case. It`s not your typical crime scene when a body is dumped and then taken through a dumpster into a large trash area like this. So the physical evidence for us from the get-go was very difficult. What we`re hoping for is that somebody out there saw her or was aware of her around March 13th, March 14th...
GRACE: Well, hold on, Lieutenant. Lieutenant, wait a minute. Guys, look at this. Lieutenant, I don`t think you can see from headquarters. There`s just tons and tons of trash. And how you`re going to do it, Lieutenant, I don`t know. Sorry to interrupt. I wanted the viewer to know what they were seeing.
Go ahead, Lieutenant Schmidt.
SCHMIDT: As you can see, that environment is really difficult to gather any evidence. It`s not your traditional crime scene. But we do know that she was in the Anaheim area, specifically the west Anaheim area, on March 13th and 14th. What we`re hoping is somebody saw her or had contact with her or knew who she was with, and that would provide that information with us, and that could start us in the direction where we need to go to catch the killer.
GRACE: With me, Lieutenant Tim Schmidt from the Anaheim Police Department. This girl looks like she`s 15. She`s actually 21, Jerrae Nicole (ph) Estepp, just gorgeous young girl.
Everyone, for those of you just joining us, her body has been found on a conveyor belt at just a behemoth of a trash recyclable -- recycling plant. And somehow, police have got to make head or tails out of this.
Lieutenant Tim Schmidt joining me from Anaheim. I`ll be with Dave Mack and Clark Goldband in just a moment. But Lieutenant Schmidt, let me ask you, how was she found? How was she discovered amidst all that? Was she actually on the conveyor belt?
SCHMIDT: Exactly. The trash comes into the facility. It`s sorted from recyclable, non-recyclable items on a conveyor belt. And during that process, a worker saw her face down, legs exposed -- she was nude -- and recognized that, obviously, it was not a mannequin, that it was a real body.
GRACE: So she was face down, nude, her legs were sticking out. Lieutenant Schmidt, I`m trying to figure this out. Is all the trash, like, picked up by, for instance, machinery there and dumped in some sort of conveyance that puts it on the conveyor belt? Is that how she ended up -- this dead body ends up on a conveyor belt? How did she get on a conveyor belt?
SCHMIDT: That`s exactly how it is. It`s sorted through a machinery process to start. She`s put on a -- like, as you would imagine, large separating item that separates the product, it was called trash and recyclables and non-recyclable items, and there she was, coming through a conveyor belt.
GRACE: I can`t believe it!
SCHMIDT: A worker recognized that.
GRACE: Lieutenant Schmidt, it`s hard for me to even -- I don`t even know how many dead bodies I`ve seen at this point, as a prosecutor and covering stories. But this is almost too much to get my head around, that someone would have the cold heart, the sensibility to leave a naked body out there of this young girl.
Unleash the lawyers, Carmen St. George, New York, Trent Copeland, LA. All right, out to you, Copeland. Not only do you have a dead body on your hands, you`ve got a killer that is willing to leave her to go through -- probably hoping her body would be destroyed, to go through a conveyance and a recyclable plant. That`s what he was thinking would happen to her, Copeland. What`s your defense?
TRENT COPELAND, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, look, it`s tough. I mean, clearly, this is murder, Nancy. There`s no question about it. And clearly, the killer is at large.
GRACE: I know that.
COPELAND: The real issue is going to be there is not a defense to murder, Nancy, if you truly committed a murder. So if I`m law enforcement, I`m looking for this guy.
GRACE: I didn`t ask you...
COPELAND: I want to retrace his steps.
GRACE: ... if you`re law enforcement.
COPELAND: I want to find that...
GRACE: I asked if you were...
COPELAND: Nancy...
GRACE: ... the defense lawyer in this case...
COPELAND: If I`m the defense lawyer...
GRACE: ... what`s your defense? That was my question.
COPELAND: I don`t know because I don`t even know...
(CROSSTALK)
COPELAND: Nancy, it`s impossible for me to know what the defense is going to be if I don`t know who my defendant is.
GRACE: OK, Carmen St. George...
COPELAND: We don`t even know who the killer is.
GRACE: ... you give it a whack.
CARMEN ST. GEORGE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, who are we defending here? There hasn`t been anybody arrested. And I remind you that California is an area which is a global industry of human trafficking. We don`t know the circumstances of this crime.
GRACE: Whoa!
ST. GEORGE: It`s a high crime area...
GRACE: Stop right there! Are you trying to suggest that not this girl, but other girls out there that are part of the trafficking trade, that their life is somehow less valuable? Because I think that`s what you`re saying.
ST. GEORGE: Nobody`s saying that, Nancy.
COPELAND: I don`t think that`s what she`s saying.
ST. GEORGE: And certainly, I didn`t...
GRACE: Well, then, why did you even bring it up?
(CROSSTALK)
ST. GEORGE: ... because that area is a high crime area. You have to look at all factors. The importance of getting...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... is dead!
ST. GEORGE: ... to get people to start communicating and telling the public officials what could be -- what was part of the investigation. What did they see? When did they see her last?
GRACE: Hold on. Speaking of part of the investigation, I`m going to let you two simmer in your own juices.
Clark Goldband, tell me about this conveyor belt.
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Here`s what we understand (ph) this trash facility, Nancy. The trash comes in here behind me. You can see the plant. And then this machinery up here actually sorts the products -- paper, plastic, glass, et cetera.
When the employee was sorting through all of this trash, that`s when they noticed the body. Now, two things, Nancy. Firstly, the employee`s first thought -- that this victim had actually been decapitated by the way some of the trash was laying on her. Once they got there, they determined that`s not the case.
Also, Nancy, authorities need to try to determine how these injuries were sustained, including if bruising, et cetera, was from actually being placed down into the machines or from the person who killed her.
GRACE: You know, back to you, Lieutenant Schmidt, PIO, Anaheim Police Department. And with me, Lee Reed, landfill search expert, who is with Team Adam (ph) consultant for MICMA (ph).
Lieutenant Schmidt, how would her body have ended up on the conveyor belt? I mean, who would know how to do that? Is this someone familiar with the plant, or is it obvious?
SCHMIDT: The body came in through -- most likely put it in a dumpster or recyclable trash. And then it came in there and was dumped, and then the workers there picking up the trash put it into the conveyor belt to separate it. So the body came into the site from off-site. We`re positive that`s what occurred.
GRACE: Joining me right now, Lee Reed from Abilene, landfill search expert. Lee, what do you do with a case like this?
LEE REED, LANDFILL SEARCH EXPERT (via telephone): Well, sounds like to me the police department`s done an outstanding job. What you do is -- landfills are a very engineered place, unlike a dump, what we used to call dumps, where (INAUDIBLE) stick a hole in the ground, people putting their trash in it, gets full, you cover it up, then you go to another hole -- where a landfill is a very engineered process.
And so what -- the trash trucks come -- will pick up the trash from the containers, take them to the landfill. A lot of places sort their trash between recyclables and non-recyclable, which is really good because they can identify when a body came (ph). A lot of items (ph), you may not have that process where they`re separating the trash. They just take the dump -- the dump truck, dump it in the landfill, and it`s covered up. Then you`ve got a real process -- a long process of finding the body in the landfill itself.
And so by EPA standards, the landfills are engineered not to put hazardous material in them because they don`t want to pollute the water table. And so they know what truck brought that in. And so it`s easy to say where -- what are did that truck come from. Now, depending on the area, if it`s a big business area, it may be as small as 10 blocks, but the truck...
GRACE: Well, hold on. Let me ask Schmidt about that. Is that the case here, Lieutenant Schmidt?
SCHMIDT: Our problem is -- he`s right. Our problem is that the plant receives hundreds trucks a day...
GRACE: Got it.
SCHMIDT: ... coming in, and we can`t say which truck of those trucks coming in brought the body into the trash.
GRACE: And I guess that leads to the next issue...
SCHMIDT: That`s our biggest -- we can put the geographical area...
GRACE: ... Dave Mack...
SCHMIDT: ... we believe, but we can`t say which truck came from there.
GRACE: That`s a big issue that Schmidt and Reed are talking about, Dave Mack, syndicated talk show host, because if you knew which truck, you knew where the truck came from. And you can isolate who may have been there, if there were screams in the area, if you heard a gunshot wound -- gunshot that night. It would make it a lot easier. We don`t have that, Dave Mack. So what -- how are they trying to find out where the girl came from -- Jerrae Nicole Estepp, 5-3, 145 pounds, blond hair, blue eyes. Let`s see a photo. She has a cross on her left arm. Repeat, a cross on her left arm.
Dave...
DAVE MACK, SYNDICATED TALK SHOW HOST (via telephone): You know...
GRACE: Go ahead.
MACK: ... something you mentioned in the very beginning -- something you mentioned in the beginning of this, Nancy, is that she`s also a mother. She has a 2-year-old son in Oklahoma City. You mentioned that, you know, this is a 21-year-old mother. This is not just trash in the landfill. This is a young mother whose son is going to grow up without her now.
And they`re going to start right there at the dump and go out from the landfill and look at security cameras, look at videotapes in convenience stores and everything they can possibly find to try to find where she was last.
GRACE: Dave Mack, Lieutenant Tim Schmidt, Lee Reed. Everyone, the tip line, 714-765-1944.
When we come back, a former star cheerleader plows her Toyota Celica through the front doors of a Providence church, calls her husband. As soon as he gets there, she stabs him in the chest, claiming he spends too much time watching NASCAR.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: 911.
STEPHEN HAMMAN, HUSBAND: Yes, my name is Stephen Hamman. I don`t know what has gotten into my wife. She went and wrecked her car into the church down here. I don`t know what`s wrong with her.
911 OPERATOR: OK, where did she wreck it at?
HAMMAN: I`ve gotten stabbed. She -- do you know where The Landings is in Church Hill?
911 OPERATOR: Yes.
HAMMAN: Right behind Food City, there`s a church there. Please, I don`t know how bad my stab wound is, but it`s bleeding pretty bad.
911 OPERATOR: OK, calm down and talk to me. Where were you stabbed at?
HAMMAN: I`m stabbed in the chest, right side, high. I think it got my lung.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Joining me right now, Anne Elgin, reporter with "The Bluefield Daily Telegraph." Anne, thanks for being with us. Is it true that not only was she angry at her husband for fixating on NASCAR, according to her, but she was also high on weed?
ANNE ELGIN, "BLUEFIELD DAILY TELEGRAPH" (via telephone): She did tell police that she did love to smoke weed. She smoked a bunch of weed. And sometimes when she did, she would start seeing things.
GRACE: Justin Freiman, what do we know about the weed? It wasn`t all NASCAR`s fault.
JUSTIN FREIMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): That`s right, Nancy. She told police that she likes to smoke weed a lot, so much so that God told her not to smoke weed so much, maybe just a little bit when she needs to relax.
GRACE: Needs to relax. OK, joining me right now, Officer Dustin Dean with the Church Hill PD. He questioned Stephanie Hamman. You know, Officer Dean, I`ve never seen anything like it. She plows her car through the church, lures her husband over there, stabs him in the chest, then claims it`s because he is fixated and obsessed with NASCAR.
OFFICER DUSTIN DEAN, CHURCH HILL POLICE DEPARTMENT (via telephone): Yes, ma`am. This is the first type of incident like that we`ve ever worked.
GRACE: What did she say when you arrived, Officer?
DEAN: When we arrived, we first contacted her at one of the local hospitals -- very cooperative, very polite, just seemed to be, better lack of words, just to be talking crazy.
GRACE: Joining me right now, in addition to Officer Dean, is Brad Lamm, addiction specialist and founder of Breathe Life Healing Centers. Also with me, Norm Kent, the president for the legalization of marijuana.
OK, Norm Kent, you`ve been telling me ad nauseam how it`s OK for pot to be legal. But how come every time you and I talk, it`s because somebody`s stoned out of their gourd and they commit an awful act?
NORM KENT, PRESIDENT, NORML: Because every time we talk, Nancy, you pull the most extreme, exotic, irrational example to stereotypically categorize...
GRACE: OK, so it`s my fault.
KENT: ... good-natured American pot smokers.
GRACE: OK. OK, Brad Lamm...
KENT: And it`s sad that you do that.
GRACE: ... somehow now, according to Norm Kent, it`s my fault because I open the newspaper or flick on my laptop, and that`s what I see. That`s my fault, right, Brad? You know, help me out here.
BRAD LAMM, ADDICTION SPECIALIST: Norm wants to just talk about the side effects that everybody laughs about, that you get the munchies, that you eat too much when you`re stoned. But for a percentage of people who get pot into their body, into their brain, they will have increased anxiety, paranoia, delusions, hallucinations, even, and be at a higher risk for schizophrenia. So it`s not a laughing matter, and the idea that it`s just a munchie issue and we can laugh about it is -- is really beside the point, Norm.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A woman rams her car into a locked church and stabs her husband in the chest at the altar.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She felt her husband was worshiping the NASCAR race at Bristol, which made her mad. That`s why she stabbed him in the chest.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hamman has never been to the church, and they aren`t familiar with her name.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have a lot of compassion for people who are struggling with those kind of things. We live in kind of a weird society right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I would feel, I think, a little more compassion for the guy with the knife sticking out of his chest. You`re taking a look at the wife who stabs her husband in the chest on the church altar after luring him over there, claiming he watches too much NASCAR. Then we find out she`s totally addicted to weed.
Brad Lamm, Norm Kent -- as a matter of fact, Brad Lamm, she says that in a weed-induced dream, God comes to her and even tells her to stop smoking weed.
LAMM: Well, this might be one of those instances where you want to listen to God on this front. The folks who do get addicted and have negative responses to pot do go off the deep end. So this is another indication that if we`re going to legalize it across the country, which seems like that`s where we`re going, there needs to be some real education...
GRACE: Wa-wa-wa-wa-wa-wait, wa-wait! Can I see the speakers, please? Brad, I`m not ready to throw in the towel and say the whole country is going to legalize marijuana. I mean, certainly, I can guarantee you Church Hill, Tennessee, is not for it.
So Norm Kent, let me try one more time -- second (INAUDIBLE) -- to give you the same question. You`re all for legalization, but I keep giving you example after example after example of what pot is doing to people in our country. What, we`ve already lost the battle with cocaine and heroin. I mean, everyone accepts -- they accept that it`s bad for you, they accept that it`s wrong, that it`s a crime, but now there`s actually a chance that marijuana is going to be legalized across this country.
Does this case right here, where the woman stabs her husband in the chest in a pot-induced high -- that doesn`t speak to you?
KENT: She has problems far more serious than pot. If all she did...
LAMM: It`s the result of pot, Norm.
KENT: ... was smoke pot, we`d have nothing to worry about.
(CROSSTALK)
KENT: I made a sign for you, Nancy.
GRACE: No! What other problems does she have?
KENT: Stop opposing responsible marijuana laws.
(CROSSTALK)
KENT: She is obviously delusional. She has mental health issues.
GRACE: No. There`s nothing in the record to suggest she has mental health issues, nothing whatsoever. OK, you know what, Brad? I`m not getting anywhere with Norm.
LAMM: No, the -- he has no connection between mental illness caused by people who get sick with pot. It`s not everybody that gets sick like this. But Norm has no room in his world to say that some people will be a train wreck when they get addicted to pot. And that`s the sad part.
KENT: I do, Brad! I want those people to be treated as patients, not prisoners. I want doctors with a conscience, rather than sheriffs with a badge, to deal with those kind of issues. And you agree with me on that...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: You know what, Brad, Norm? The reality is this. This guy has been stabbed in the chest by his wife when she is high on pot. She says she smokes weed all the time. And yet again, now another outrageous criminal act as a result. The wife stabs her husband in the chest on the church altar high on pot, complaining he watches too much NASCAR.
Very quickly, Officer Dustin Dean with us -- is she out on bond, Officer?
DEAN: No, ma`am, she is currently incarcerated, held with no bond until an arraignment tomorrow afternoon.
GRACE: Officer Dustin Dean joining me from Church Hill, and Anne Elgin, as well.
When we come back, superstar, TV king, author of countless books, spokesperson for countless products -- you can turn on your TV and see him any time of the day or night -- heads to jail.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Superstar TV king, author of countless books, spokesperson for countless products. You can flip on your TV set any time of day or night and see him. But now the TV star heads to jail.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you`ve ever been up late night channel surfing, chances are you know Kevin Trudeau.
KEVIN TRUDEAU: This is the book we`re talking about, "Natural Cures They Don`t Want you to Know About."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: TV pitchman Kevin Trudeau headed to federal prison after years of selling the secrets of weight loss and finding free money.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For misleading consumers about his weight loss books. The judge called Trudeau an unrepentant huckster and deceitful to the core.
TRUDEAU: The drug companies create false hope. My book is the real hope.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Whoa, that`s pretty harsh. Take a listen to what he tells Paula Zahn.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUDEAU: Of course, medical doctors will say they don`t believe in what I`m doing, because the whole book is about exposing the medical business for what it is. Fraud.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN: You`re the only person ever to have been banned from selling a product by the FTC. You have absolutely no medical training. You`re a convicted felon. Why should anyone listen to what you have to say about health matters?
TRUDEAU: Why should anyone listen to a medical doctor about health?
ZAHN: One would assume they have training that would reinforce what they`re advising their patients to do.
TRUDEAU: You would assume that. These are the same experts that told us to use Vioxx that killed 150,000 people. These are the same people that kill 900,000 people a year.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Joining me right now out of Chicago, Art Golab, a reporter with the Chicago Sun-Times. Also with me, Jason Meisner (ph), federal court reporter, Chicago Tribune. Gentlemen, thank you for being with us. First to you, Art, jail time? You know, I think the reason a lot of people are reacting adversely to him going to jail is because they`ve seen him so much on TV, they think they know him. What are the claims that sent him to jail? He`s the TV king.
ART GOLAB, CHICAGO SUN-TIMES: He`s a very likable person. What`s sending him to jail is the fact that he did not comply with the court order. The FTC got an injunction against him to stop lying about his book in order to sell it.
GRACE: Which book was it? Art?
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Was it the weight loss cure? Wait, wait, $12 million first class airfare, gym memberships, $340,000 Bentley automobile, two lavish residences, at least. Personal chefs, fancy dinners and luxury cars, $12,000 cufflinks, $4,000 draperies, $1,000 on meat, $180 on Vidal Sassoon haircuts. OK, my head is completely spinning. Sorry, Art. I just saw a visual I had to recount to you because I know you can`t see it. Man, he was living high on the hog.
GOLAB: He was certainly doing all right, but he didn`t look that good in the courtroom today. He could have used a prison visit from Vidal.
GRACE: Tell me, he`s done so -- good gravy! Look at this place. It looks like a museum. He actually lives here? Michael Christian, this is his home?
CHRISTIAN: This is his home in Illinois, Nancy. He also had another home in Ohai, California. He also has an apartment in Zurich, Switzerland. This is a guy who is living very well. All the while he`s claiming he`s absolutely broke, he says he has no money and no assets.
GRACE: Who did he tell he was broke?
CHRISTIAN: He told the court that for several years now. There was an FTC fine against him for $37 million. He bragged about the fact that he`s never paid a penny of it. He says he`s broke. He and his wife have their suitcase and maybe their clothes, and that`s about it. But as you can see, he lives a very lavish lifestyle.
GRACE: (inaudible), look at that bar. I feel like I`m in a restaurant. Can I tell you something, Michael Christian, which you may remember. For several years I worked in consumer protection at the Federal Trade Commission, and one of the first cases I ever worked on was a weight loss cure, and it had something in it called guar (ph) that bloats up in your stomach. And I started working on the case, and guess who my first witness was supposedly against the weight loss company? It was a nun that swore under oath the product made her lose weight. OK. I had a problem with that case. But this case, altogether different.
Hey, Liz, let me scroll through this guy`s home again, the one that says he`s broke. Art, how much money has this guy made off of consumers buying all of his books and weight loss products? His whole schtick?
GOLAB: Just from this last book alone, $37 million, and that`s only from the 800 numbers, the people who called on his infomercials. Book sales and Internet sales, like on amazon.com, were not included in that number.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUDEAU: If you don`t see $500 cash coming in by using these techniques --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Fraud is something Kevin Trudeau knows about firsthand.
ZAHN: You have absolutely no medical training, you`re a convicted felon. Why should anyone listen to what you have to say about health matters?
TRUDEAU: The majority of people believe, Paula, that the information I promise is in the book.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A judge called TV pitchman Kevin Trudeau deceitful to the core.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A TV king heads to jail. The Federal Trade Commission says he conned the public out of at least $37 million. Joining me, reporter with the Chicago Sun Times, Art Golab. Hey, Art, take a listen to this commercial.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUDEAU: This is the book we`re talking about, "Natural Cures They Don`t Want you to Know About." If you have acid reflux, blood clots, varicose veins, asthma, arthritis, migraine headhaches, pain of any kind, insomnia. Any type of disease you need to pay attention, because there are natural cures for virtually every disease out there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Art, I`m just curious. When I was with the Federal Trade Commission, it was required under the law, and it still is, that there be a double blind test, a laboratory test, on such scientific claims such as the ones he just made before you can advertise them. What were his cures for, for instance, arthritis, pain, insomnia. What was his cure?
GOLAB: I`m not sure. That`s not the book that was -- that he got in trouble for, his weight watch book. He claims that people could lose a pound a day without feeling hungry.
GRACE: What was his weight loss cure?
GOLAB: You needed a special drug in order to do that and a 500- calorie-a-day diet, basically starvation.
GRACE: Now, isn`t it true, Art, that you also needed in order to lose weight on his diet regimen, didn`t you have to inject yourself with the urine of a pregnant woman? Wasn`t that required in some of his weight loss plans?
GOLAB: It was a refined product that was not legally -- or had not been approved by the FDA. But, you know, was available in the gray market. So that`s what he was recommending people do in order to lose weight. And he was claiming that it was easy. That you wouldn`t feel any pain whatsoever or suffer any pangs of hunger. You would still lose a lot of weight.
GRACE: Everybody, we are talking about TV king Kevin Trudeau. Take a look at some of his homes that he owned. So Art, how long is he in the slammer? Ouch, that`s a beautiful home. How long is he in the slammer? And what about his wife? Is she a part of this?
GOLAB: She`s not a part of this, and as far as I know, she`s out of the country. But yes, he`s going to spend almost all of that ten years in jail under the federal system. And there`s another problem, he`s got another case. Another judge is mad at him because he has not paid that $37 million in fines.
GRACE: And bragged about it.
GOLAB: Right. And that judge has said, you`re going to stay in jail on my contempt charges, and the criminal meter won`t even start for you until you figure out what you`re going to do about that $37 million.
GRACE: Everyone, TV king heads to jail, and now to tonight`s case alert. JonBenet Ramsay murder house goes on the block. The upscale Bolder mansion on sale for $2 million. The sellers actually advertising the basement where 6-year-old beauty queen JonBenet`s body found dead.
When we come back, nearly 100,000 people rally to save an evil pitbull, Mickey, after the brute viciously mauls a four-year-old little boy nearly to death. Why? Supporters say because the tiny child, quote, "stole his bone."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Now to Phoenix. Nearly 100,000 people rally to save an evil pitbull after the brute viciously mauls a four-year-old little boy nearly to death. Why? Supporters say because the tiny child, quote, stole the dog`s bone. They`re worried about a stolen bone when a little boy is nearly dead after having his face and body ripped to shreds by a pitbull?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Five-year-old Mickey, a pitbull terrier, went right for the four-year-old`s child`s face. Some have blamed the child. Witnesses say four-year-old Kevin Decente (ph) went to grab one of the dog`s bones. People raising money and signing petitions to help save the dog.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People are trying to make excuses saying it was Kevin`s fault or the babysitter`s fault. Everything but the dog.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Gregg Paul, news director, 960 the Patriot. Nearly 100,000 people are supporting the dog, an evil pitbull that nearly killed a four- year-old little boy? I don`t understand, Greg.
GREGG PAUL, NEWS DIRECTOR, 960 THE PATRIOT: Well, you know, it`s not that they support the dog or that they are going against the little boy. What they`re saying is that this dog was acting out of instinct and possibly that they blame the people, the adults who were around the boy in the backyard, that they should have been watching the boy better. So that`s who they sort of blame. It`s not so much that they`re blaming the boy, but a lot of people are standing behind this dog, saying it should not be euthanized and that they are saying that maybe the dog should go to special training or possibly be given to a special place where he can maybe then be adopted out to a family that can take care of this dog.
GRACE: Really? Well, if he acts like a wild animal, then maybe he should be with other wild animals and not with little children like this four-year-old child. Dr. Salvatore Lettieri is with me, a Mayo Clinic physician serving as chief of plastic surgery at Maricopa Medical Center, who actually performed the surgery on the little four-year-old child, Kevin Vicente. And let me warn everybody, these photos are graphic. This pitbull nearly mauled this child to death. Dr. Latteri, thank you so much for being with us. How extensive was the surgery on little Kevin?
LETTIERI: Well, let me start first off by saying, there are two parts to what you`ll notice, the superficial part where the skin was damaged, but the deeper structures in the right side of his face were extensively damaged, ranging from around the eye to the upper cheek bone to upper jaw bone to the lower jawbone, the mandible.
GRACE: How much future surgery will the little boy require, Doctor?
LETTIERI: Well, probably over the course of the next one to two years, we`ll work with him, try to regain the ability to open and close his eye on the right side, and also to redo the tear duct drainage system. The bone structures that we repaired, which is the mandible, the lower jaw and the eye socket, those we fixed at the time of his original surgery, which by the way, was five and a half to six hours.
GRACE: Dr. Salvatore Lettieri, Mayo Clinic physician, joining us. Every time I look at the picture of this little boy sitting in that hospital bed, looking up, I think of one of my children sitting there with their face ripped to shreds.
Dr. Patricia Saunders, clinical psychologist. How do we get -- where is Patricia? How did we get so bassackwards that people are actually defending the dog? I mean, Patricia, look at the child. I mean, if the dog instincts took over, then maybe the dog`s instincts could be better suited to be out in the wild and not around little children.
SAUNDERS: I disagree with you on that. I hold the owners responsible, even though they may have been in compliance with the law about containing the dog. It isn`t an evil dog. It`s an evil act by instinct. Because the boy is only four years old --
GRACE: It`s a devil dog. I don`t even know what you`re saying.
SAUNDERS: A devil dog?
GRACE: He ripped a child`s face practically off. Yes, devil dog, yes.
SAUNDERS: As in Satan?
GRACE: As in take a look at this picture. And I know, I`ve seen your husband with about ten dogs at the end of a leash. I don`t know why I thought you might agree with me.
SAUNDERS: I do.
GRACE: Look at this picture, Patricia, look. I`m glad to hear that. Not that picture, Liz. That picture!
With me right now, Richards Rosenthal, general counsel for the Lexis Project (ph) who hired a lawyer to save Mickey. Richard Rosenthal joining me from Q Gardens (ph), New York. Richard, the dog nearly ate the little boy`s face off. It seems to me like the little boy is the one that needs to be saved, not the dog.
RICHARD ROSENTHAL, ATTORNEY: Not necessarily. First of all, if we want to place blame, let`s place it on the adult. The best comment on this whole thing was the doctors when the boy was first brought in who said the dog was only doing what dogs do, and the little boy was doing what little boys do. The problem here is that the baby-sitter was not doing what responsible adults do.
GRACE: I`ve got to disagree with you, Richard Rosenthal, because dogs that are allowed to be around people -- peole include children.
ROSENTHAL: The dog wasn`t allowed to be around people. The child went into the dog`s area. You know, if you`re going to trespass, if you`re going to go into the dog`s area --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Where was the dog? Where was the dog? Where was he, Richard?
ROSENTHAL: He was in his own yard unchained.
GRACE: Dr. Morrone, this child had his face ripped off. He`s going to have surgery probably the rest of his life, Dr. Morrone.
MORRONE: Surgery is not a one-time event. As this child grows, he`ll need further reconstructive plastic surgery on superficial and deep structures to accommodate his growth. So it is an ongoing rehabilitation and reconstruction from this terrible event.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Very quickly, Justin Freiman, how long was the chain that the devil dog was on?
FREIMAN: This evil dog was on an 18-foot chain.
GRACE: Whoa. I thought you were going to say 8. Richard Rosenthal, he was on an 18-foot chain? Let`s see the back of that year. That`s practically the whole yard. How do I know the little kid wasn`t just walking down that driveway right there?
ROSENTHAL: Because the pictures show that he wasn`t. That he fully came into the other yard. The bigger problem is how come you don`t blame the humans who are supposed to know better, unless you think that the dog is smarter than the humans?
GRACE: No. Actually, Dr. Patricia Saunders, I blame not only the humans but I blame the dog. I think the dog, a pitbull, is inherently dangerous. I`ve covered so many stories where they eat people. That`s why I don`t understand why this dog is out in a backyard on a chain without a fence. I don`t understand that.
SAUNDERS: That`s why all of us or most of us are saying we blame the people, because you buy a dog like this, you know they`re aggressive, they are territorial. You darn well better have them trained. I wouldn`t touch a dog like this unless I trained them. Like I do with my own.
GRACE: Let`s stop and remember American hero, Army specialist, Julian Berisford, 25, Benwood, West Virginia. Bronze Star, Purple Heart, loved West Virginia University sports, fishing and the Beatles. Parents, Shelly and Jewel. Widow Gina, daughter Mia. Julian Berisford, American hero. Drew up next, everyone. I`m see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night.
END
