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Nancy Grace
Body of Adult Male Found in Search for Missing Relisha Rudd; Man Puts Abortion Pill in Pregnant Girlfriend`s Pancakes
Aired March 31, 2014 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Eight-year-old Relisha Rudd with a family friend babysitting her -- now she`s gone, police insisting she is in grave danger. Grainy surveillance video emerges, and we learn one of the reasons little Relisha never reported missing from school.
Bombshell tonight. Are there new clues? At this hour, a body has been found. Is it Relisha?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In Kenilworth Park today, more of the same as police and now fire recruits search the massive grounds.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is heart-breaking for all of us.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tatum reported purchased contractor-strength trash bags.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A day later, Tatum bought huge trash bags and spent hours in this park, where the search is under way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And to the heartland. Second verse, same as the first, a story we`ve heard before. She`s pregnant. He doesn`t want the baby. But tonight`s story has a tragic ending. Breakfast in bed? He grinds up the abortion pill and slips it in her pancakes. Tonight, abortion pill in the morning pancakes. Will he face the death penalty?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Authorities say a 30-year-old man killed his pregnant girlfriend`s fetus by allegedly contaminating her pancakes with an abortion drug. That`s right, authorities say he laced pancakes with an abortion drug to kill his future offspring!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, for some reason, and we don`t know why, a 25- year-old Oregon mom watches her 4-year-old toddler boy and decides he`s gay. Instead of loving him with all her heart, Mommy beats the little boy to death. Tonight, Mommy, hell`s too good for you!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mean, it just -- it mystifies me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) caused of deadly injuries to 4-year- old Zachary (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her son was unresponsive and he was lying in the shower.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For suspecting he may be gay.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live, Merrill (ph), Wisconsin, caught on tape. A gorgeous young mom of three offers a hit man money and sex to, quote, "blow her lawyer fiancee`s brains out."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jessica Strom (ph) tapped a former criminal justice classmate to kill a man with whom she was having a bad relationship. Officers say Strom promised her friend $1,000 and some sex in exchange for the deed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And Scottsdale, Arizona, a homeless single mom trying her best to dig out of the hole she`s in, dragging with her her two children. She finally gets a job interview and leaves her two children in the only home they have, a Dodge Durango. Tonight, we learn the single homeless mom thrown in jail for leaving her children in the Durango for 45 minutes while she tries to get a job. Well, if that`s the law, then the law is an A-S-S!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Homeless and desperate for a job...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... 35-year-old Tanisha Taylor (ph) parked her SUV in this lot, then went inside an insurance office for a job interview...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... leaves her parked car with her two children inside to go for a job interview.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She had no one else to watch her children.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think she should be facing jail time?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. Eight-year-old Relisha Rudd left with a family friend to babysit. Now police insist she is in grave danger. Grainy surveillance video emerges, and we learn one of the reasons Relisha never reported missing from school. Tonight, are there clues that could lead us to 8-year-old Relisha?
As we go to air, the search goes on in Kenilworth Park, a 700-acre tract of land full of bodies of water near the Anacostia River. A body has been found in Kenilworth Park.
Before I get to the beginning of the story, let me go straight to Brett Larson, investigative reporter. Isn`t it true that the family friend, Karl Tatum, has been spotted? He`s the one that had been with little Relisha. He`s the one we spot on the grainy surveillance video walking down the corridor of a Holiday Inn Express, OK? There he is.
BRETT LARSON, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: There he is, yes.
GRACE: You don`t see his wife Andrea anywhere. You don`t see Relisha`s mom anywhere. Well, shortly after that -- that was on or around February 26th -- we learn his wife Andrea is found dead in a Red Roof Inn.
Now, he`s been spotted at Kenilworth Park. And tell me, Brett Larson, what we know he bought at a local store there in Maryland.
LARSON: And Nancy, it`s disturbing. He bought some construction worker-level trash bags that he bought at a nearby hardware store. He was seen in this park, very large park, as you said, with lots of bodies of water and wooded areas, with these contractor-sized trash bags, which is the last place he was seen.
GRACE: Everyone, the search is going on at this hour. A body has been found, and we are waiting to learn who the body is.
Out to the lines. Kelly, Kentucky. Hi, Kelly. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I don`t have a question, I just have a comment. I cannot fathom why anyone -- I watch these crime shows. I watch your show every night. I watch Dr. Drew. I watch Jane Velez- Mitchell. And I cannot fathom why anyone would want to take someone`s child. I cannot wrap my head around this. Can you help me wrap my head around this?
GRACE: Yes, I can, Kelly, because I dealt with people just like Tatum day in and day out when I was prosecuting for over 10 years violent felonies. And sometimes, Kelly, I would have to pull the car over on the side of the road and cry on my way home from work. Take a look at Relisha Rudd. These people, I`m telling you, cannot be cured, Kelly in Kentucky. They -- child molesters and burglars are two types of felons. I`m telling you, I don`t understand it. They can never be cured.
Take a look at this video we`ve just gotten of Relisha. Look at her. She`s 8 years old. She`s so full of life. Look at her dancing for all she`s worth! She`s got little siblings she had to take care of. Her mom was doing her best to keep her in school, take her children to school.
And they befriended Tatum, 51-year-old Karl Tatum. He was known for flashing $20 bills and giving them to children and to the moms there in the community where they lived. So the mom didn`t think anything of it when the little girl was going to go play with Tatum`s granddaughter.
Brett Larson, investigative reporter, joining us tonight. Brett, also, he`s spotted there in Kenilworth Park. What can you tell me about Kenilworth Park?
LARSON: Well, what we can tell you -- now, they are -- all that they have at their disposal are out searching in this park. We`ve got K-9 units. We`ve got firefighters, policemen. Now, this park has a lot of water, a lot of bodies of water in the park, and there`s also wooded areas in this park. And you can see from that video it`s not a very hospitable place. This is somewhere you can get into, you can hide, and you can`t be seen. So if he is up to no good, this is the place he is going to want to go.
GRACE: Joining us right now from "The Washington Post," Emil Harris (ph). Emil, thank you for being with us.
EMIL HARRIS, WASHINGTON POST" (via telephone): No problem, Nancy. No problem.
GRACE: Please tell me the latest from your neck of the woods. You`re closer to the search than me.
HARRIS: No problem. D.C. police chief (ph) captain (INAUDIBLE) just concluded a press conference, and what was new -- we already knew that there was a body that was found. What was new was it appeared that this person had suffered a self-inflicted gunshot wound. And besides that, there was more telling what she did not say. She did not say about other contents found around this body, and also why this additional search is going forward and more assets are coming in.
So you had the police chief, the FBI, Prince Georges County police. And a lot of times, you can tell a lot about what`s going on by who shows up. This was not just the D.C. police, but you had the whole federal law enforcement -- you know, the hierarchy here. They don`t just come out unless they really suspect something bigger than just the body that was found.
GRACE: OK, hold on. With me, "Washington Post`s" Emil Harris. Emil, again, thanks for being with us. All right, you`re telling me that the body that has been found is not Relisha, it is a grown man, correct?
HARRIS: Right. And we do know it`s an adult male. We do not know additional -- what else was found or who this person is and...
GRACE: Wait a minute. Are you suggesting, Emil, that this is Karl Malik Tatum? Could it be him? Because the search isn`t over. You`re saying they`re still searching?
HARRIS: Well, they`re still searching. The chief emphasized that, that the search continues. So again, what are they searching for? Again, we do not know. But she did not say it`s someone else. We heard various reports that I can go into about the composition of this body. But again, the clear thing is that there are two medical examiner vans that we (INAUDIBLE) two vans, you know, would transport bodies out, not just one.
So again, there`s so much speculation. Again, the police chief is remaining on the scene, Chief (INAUDIBLE), as well as the FBI, these other people. But again, while they`re not saying is if it`s Tatum`s body, you can bet there`s much speculation. They have not ruled this not being his body.
GRACE: Everybody, let`s go right now to a police presser.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So in the course of our search today, we did discover the body of an adult male that is deceased. It is in our target search area. Right now, the only thing I can tell you is we have not identified who that adult male is. We have not confirmed what the cause of death is, although we will say that it looks like it`s likely it is a suicide. So right now, the best I can tell you is that the search still has -- is under way, and there`s still a lot of work to be done and more searching to be done. We are not finished here. And we do have one body that we recovered today, and hopefully...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK, you can laugh at me if you want to, but I think right now, our prayers need to go up that Relisha Rudd is still alive.
We learned earlier that a body was found in the Kenilworth Park area, and we didn`t know what it meant. Was it Relisha? Was it connected to Relisha? Now we know it`s not Relisha. Does this mean this child is still alive somewhere out there? It`s not her body. It`s an adult male. Is it the body of Tatum? We don`t know yet. We`re waiting for confirmation. If it is Tatum, does that mean she`s dead? On the other hand, we don`t know if this is Khalil Malik Karl Tatum or not. For all we know, he`s on the run.
Isn`t it true, Brett Larson, that they are searching as far south as Atlanta for Tatum?
LARSON: They are.
GRACE: Because he apparently has connections in Atlanta?
LARSON: That is true, Nancy. And you know, this is one of those instances where we have to be really happy about these Amber Alerts because they are able to tell people on their cell phones and on billboards in this entire corridor right now that this girl is missing, and this is the description of what we have, and this is what you need to be on the lookout for.
GRACE: To Marc Klaas, president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation. Marc, weigh in. This is not the body of Relisha Rudd.
MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION (via telephone): Well, quite frankly, this is eerily reminiscent of a situation 14 years ago, when another pedophile predator kidnapped a young girl, an 8-year-old girl, kept her for three days. And just as he was purchasing the trash bags he was going to use to bury her and hide her, she managed to escape. And Missy Sanchez (ph) is now a wonderful young mother who`s got a bright future ahead of her.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Melinda, Mississippi. Hi, Melinda. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I just want to know why, even though the mother might have trusted him, why is she not taking responsibility of giving her child to this man?
GRACE: You know what Melinda? I`ve got the perfect person to answer that. With me is Tiara Cotton, Relisha`s aunt. Ms. Cotton, thank you for being with us. Many people are concerned about the mother handing Relisha over to Karl Tatum. What can you tell us, Tiara?
TIARA COTTON, RELISHA`S AUNT (via telephone): Well, as me being a mother, I do not approve of letting my child to a complete stranger, which he`s a stranger that she met in a shelter, with her 8-year-old. He`s 51 years old.
GRACE: Well, another thing is, the mother, while -- yes, it was reckless that she handed the child over, but she had believed all along that Tatum had a granddaughter her child was playing with. I mean, that`s what the child told her, as well, that she was playing with a little girl that was his granddaughter. And under those circumstances, I believe she actually viewed him as a father figure, that the mother viewed him as a father figure.
You know, we`ve learned so much about how this all unfolded. Justin Freiman, isn`t it true the girl was missing school, missing school, missing school. And then the school was put in touch with a Dr. Tatum, and he said that Relisha was having neurological problems that he was treating her for, and he left a phone number.
They go there, it`s the community where the mother lives. And they call the manager, and he goes, yes, there is a Tatum here, but it`s no Dr. Tatum, he`s a janitor. Right, Justin?
JUSTIN FREIMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Nancy, you`re 100 percent right, and then he leaves work early before they could actually catch him and speak with him.
GRACE: Everyone, you are seeing a picture of Relisha Rudd. She is 8 years old. There is a $70,000 reward for this little girl. Won`t you help us bring Relisha home? At this hour, we learn a body has been found. It is not the body of Relisha. This is hope for so many people that are praying tonight Relisha is still alive. Tipline, 202-727-9099. Repeat, 202-727-9099 -- $70,000 reward in the belief, in the hope, in the prayer that this child, this little 8-year-old girl, is still alive.
Everyone, when we come back, it`s a story we`ve heard before. She`s pregnant. He doesn`t want the baby. But this story has a tragic ending. An abortion pill crunched and put in the morning pancakes? Will he face the death penalty?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An American breakfast staple for decades, but authorities say pancakes were used as a tool to allegedly induce an abortion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Live to the heartland. Second verse, same as the first, a story we`ve heard before. She`s pregnant. He doesn`t want the baby. But tonight`s story has a tragic ending. Breakfast in bed? He grinds up the abortion pill, according to police, and slips it into her pancakes. Tonight, abortion pill in the morning pancakes. Will he face the death penalty?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The pancake, an American breakfast staple for decades. Authorities claim a man hid an abortion-causing pill in his pregnant girlfriend`s pancakes. The drug-filled pancakes allegedly cause a miscarriage.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: So how does he go about doing this, Joe Gomez, investigative reporter KRLD, grind up the morning-after pill? What it is, is that if you have gotten pregnant, it will abort the baby. It`s a pill. And we`re not arguing about abortion tonight. You know, that could take me forever to argue about that, yes, no, right, wrong.
What I`m talking about is this guy grinding up the abortion pill and putting it in his girlfriend`s pancakes...
JOE GOMEZ, KRLD: Oh!
GRACE: ... which makes her then abort against her will. What happened, Joe?
GOMEZ: That`s right, Nancy. You know, this 36-year-old pregnant woman -- she was about 8 to 10 weeks pregnant, we understand, Nancy. She was having breakfast. She thought her boyfriend had made her some nice pancakes. What she didn`t know, though, was that her boyfriend had allegedly put an abortion-inducing drug inside the pancakes, police say, on purpose.
What happened afterwards? Well, she lost her precious baby. She had a miscarriage. Now, that man is charged with first degree murder, Nancy. He could spend his life behind jail. (sic)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: So he grinds up the abortion pill, slips it in his girlfriend`s pancakes, and she aborts, with much pain, the baby she was looking forward to.
Unleash the lawyers, Dwane Cates, Phoenix, Michael Mazzariello, New York. All right, Mazzariello, what`s your defense?
MICHAEL MAZZARIELLO, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: How do we know that he put the pill in the pancakes? Maybe she took the pill herself and now has regrets and she`s guilty and blaming him.
GRACE: OK, Dwane Cates, why are you shaking your head yes, like you know she took it herself?
DWANE CATES, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I agree. You know, it says court papers say that...
MAZZARIELLO: Right.
CATES: ... that he ground these pills up. Well, sometimes, court papers are wrong. Sometimes, they just get it wrong. You know, they can`t cite to any source about how they got this information, just that it says court papers did (sic) it. So we don`t know what happened.
GRACE: OK, hold on.
CATES: We don`t know how the pill got in the pancakes.
GRACE: Gomez, why are they pointing at him and the pancakes?
GOMEZ: It`s still unclear as to how she figured out that the pancakes were laced with this abortion-inducing drug, but you know, police obviously have an idea that they found the drug in the pancakes, Nancy.
GRACE: Oh, no!
GOMEZ: Otherwise, they wouldn`t be saying this...
GRACE: You`ve given the defense lawyers...
GOMEZ: ... in the arrest affidavit.
GRACE: ... a peg to hang their hat on! I`ll never hear the end of this. But as it stands right now, police are firm they have proof the boyfriend ground up the abortion pill and put it in her breakfast in bed. What do we know, Clark?
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, it`s not clear what the drug was. Authorities do say there was a drug that caused it. Now, he is facing first degree murder charges, Nancy. Of course, it appears he will vigorously be defending this.
But let`s take a look behind me -- states with fetal homicide laws. Why is he facing first degree murder charge? You see it there in yellow. The state where this took place, they do have fetal homicide law in Kansas.
GRACE: And again, this is not about abortion. This is about killing an infant, a fetus, when the mother wishes to keep the baby.
Everybody, when we come back, a 25-year-old Oregon mother watches her 4-year-old toddler boy, and she decides some day that he`s gay. Instead of loving the baby with all her heart, Mommy beats the little boy to death. And let me tell you this, Mommy. Hell is too good for you!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do you know that a 4-year-old is gay or exhibits some sort of gay behavior? I mean, it just -- it mystifies me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: For some reason, and I don`t think we`ll ever know the truth, a 25-year-old Oregon mother watches her 4-year-old toddler boy and decides he`s gay. Instead of loving the baby with all her heart, Mommy beats her little boy to death. My message to you, Mommy, hell`s too good for you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Four-year-old Zachary Dutro suffered a deadly beating. Dutro was staying with her boyfriend and four children.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They alerted out staff to the fact that her son was unresponsive.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Causing deadly injuries to four-old Zachary for suspecting he may be gay.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Because she thinks he`s gay? No. 1, what difference does it make if he is? No. 2, he`s four years old. How could she come up with some zany theory that her son is gay, Joe Gomez from KRLD?
GOMEZ: It`s unbelievable, Nancy, really is a shocking story, but apparently in a Facebook transcript obtained by police, we have this mother talking to her boyfriend saying that she thinks her son is gay. He apparently walks like it, he sounds like it, whatever that is. Then she tells him to go to work on him, Nancy. What do you think that means? Next thing we find out this little boy is suffering severe abdominal trauma. He is taken to the hospital and put on life support, where he dies, and now mommy is charged with murder.
GRACE: Joe, it`s almost too much for me to even stand to hear. So she says her four-year-old little boy is gay because of the way he walks? How did we catch the conversation between her and her boyfriend?
GOMEZ: Well, apparently police obtained this transcript after the boy was taken to the hospital and they found out foul play was involved, Nancy. There is also a history here. We understand she has two other children -- they`re also looking into the possibility that she had been beating them as well, making them stand, looking at the wall for hours on end. One child had fractured ribs, another had bruises on the back. So this isn`t just an isolated case, Nancy.
GRACE: Out to Woody Tripp, former APD, expert at lie detectors. Woody, I now think I`ve heard it all. Now, to me, they`ve obviously got her with text messages. That`s got to be what this is, text messages or e- mails, probably texts back and forth to this live-in boyfriend she`s got. Not judging. So she decides a four-year-old little boy is gay as if it matters? That is her child! I wouldn`t care if John David were purple. They are my child. To think that she could do this -- I think she was going to beat the boy dead no matter what because she`s been abusing the other children, too, Woody.
WOODY TRIPP: Nancy, this is incomprehensible. We look at my hometown, Daytona Beach, where the mother drove into the ocean. Now we have this one that actually beats this child -- I mean, horrific action. You know, it`s one thing to shoot someone, that`s bad enough, stab them, but to literally beat them to death, it`s an horrific crime that it`s almost unimaginable to do that to a child. You`re right, hell probably wouldn`t accept her. It wouldn`t be good enough for her.
You know what, Joe Gomez, I`m thinking about what this took. Joe, when I`ve had to go through these type cases with juries, it`s almost too much to take in. So when you think about this, she gave him a beating that had to last several minutes. He was struck repeatedly in his abdomen.
GOMEZ: That`s right, Nancy. We understand the beating was so severe, Nancy. We understand the beating was so severe that the boy`s intestines ripped. I know it`s hard to even imagine that, but that little boy`s intestines ripped, and the next day was his birthday. She didn`t take him to the hospital, Nancy, until she found him limp in the bed, and then she thought he wet the bed, so she allegedly dragged him to the shower. And then afterwards, we understand, was when she took him to the hospital, finally. So the story just gets worse and worse and worse.
GRACE: Dr. Nina Radcliff, physician joining me out of New York. Dr. Radcliffe, what would that do to a person, much less a child?
RADCLIFF: Kicking somebody in the stomach so hard that their intestines rip open will allow the feces to leak into the space around that. That is deadly. This child must have felt so much pain and discomfort, not eating, probably was vomiting, not feeling well. What they said is two days later, he was about to go to take a shower, and his eyes rolled back and he almost fell down. So they took him, and they said he was practically dead by the time they took him inside the hospital. This is terrible.
GRACE: Justin Freiman -- Liz, I want to see this woman again, please. I want to see Jessica Dutro, 25-year-old, also has a 7-year-old daughter, a 3-year-old son and infant at the time of the incident. Look at her. You know, if you passed her on the street or you saw her in the grocery store, you would think, there goes another mom. This mom is accused of believing her four-year-old little boy was gay. As if that matters. And used that excuse to beat the child to death.
Liz, put up what we believe to be her text messages that she was writing back and forth? He`s going to be a -- and I`m sure that`s a slur - - he walks and talks like it, ugh, it pisses me off." You know what? She ought to go to jail for that right there. Then she writes, "I`m going to work on him big time." To Greg Cason, psychologist, LA. Weigh in, Greg.
CASON: This mother obviously was homophobic to begin with, and I agree with you, she was probably going to beat her kids no matter what. But when you are homophobic and you see that child as a reflection on you, you are going to take that extra step, and that`s what probably caused her to do that beating that caused that fatal injury.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Zaida in Texas, hi, Zaida, what`s your question?
CALLER: My question, how did she know that he was gay, anyway? She had it all planned. She was going to beat her kids up.
GRACE: You know, Zaida, she didn`t know. She didn`t know. And even if she did know, why would she do this to her child, a four-year-old little boy? I remember when my children, now six, were just four years old, completely defenseless, completely trusting, and she beat him in the abdomen until she ripped his intestines.
Unleash the lawyers. Dwayne Cates, Michael Mazzariello. You got it over me on the pancake case. I want to hear a defense on this case.
MAZZARIELLO: Nancy, this one is -- if this was my client, I would go right to the judge and say I would like to have a medical examination to determine her competency.
GRACE: Insanity?
MAZZARIELLO: Nancy, any woman, and you said this repeatedly in the last 10 minutes, any woman who would do this to a child needs help. And we cannot--
GRACE: So you`re claiming she shouldn`t be punished, she should be helped.
MAZZARIELLO: No, I`m claiming she should be evaluated by a court to determine whether or not she knows what`s about to happen to her.
GRACE: You know what, Michael Mazzariello, I think the text messages say it all. She`s not incompetent.
MAZZARIELLO: Nancy, she`s a woman that`s not thinking properly. She`s not thinking properly. Therefore, the court, as you know, has a procedure for us to allow the court to evaluate her and determine whether or not she could assist me in this plea that we`re going to take, because it`s not going to trial.
GRACE: Let me remind you, Mr. Cates, and you, too, Mr. Mazzariello, before you tune up. Not thinking properly is not the legal standard that is required in court to be incompetent to stand trial. That means you are, and I quote, unable to assist your attorney in your defense. That is a quote from the law. Insanity means, if you want to fall back on that, and I quote, from the McNaughton rule, which we brought over to America from Great Britain as part of our U.S. common law, you do not know the difference between right and wrong at the time of the incident. When we see in her text messages she is totally coherent and she`s planning to beat this child.
MAZZARIELLO: And I respectfully tell you it would not pass the muster on mental competency. Never.
GRACE: Are you saying that she is incompetent?
MAZZARIELLO: I`m saying that I would ask the court for a mental evaluation, which is my right as a defense attorney, to determine whether or not she has the capability of understanding what she did and whether or not she could assist me in her defense. Clearly --
GRACE: You`re talking apples and oranges.
MAZZARIELLO: No, I`m not.
GRACE: You`re claiming it should be determined whether she could assist you. That is incompetency, and whether she knew right or wrong at the time of the incident. So you`re claiming she`s not only incompetent, but she is insane as well. You know, Justin Freiman, the fact she was writing these texts to her live-in lover, planning to beat the child, shows me she knew exactly what she was doing.
FREIMAN: That`s right, Nancy, and it`s been going on for a while, according to the other siblings.
GRACE: Well, you know, again, I can only give you an expert legal opinion, and that is that hell is too good for this mother.
When we get back, caught on tape. A gorgeous young mother of three offers a hit man money and sex. Money and sex to, quote, "blow her lawyer fiancee`s brains out."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The informant pointed out to Strom (ph) she would be questioned if her boyfriend was killed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She pretended to cry and then suddenly stopped and smiled.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Merrill, Wisconsin, caught on tape. A gorgeous young mother of three offers a hit man money and sex -- whoa -- money wasn`t enough, she had to have sex with him, too? To, quote, blow her lawyer fiance`s brains out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jessica Strom planned to have her boyfriend killed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Strom wanted her friend to use a gun in the killing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Strom replied she wouldn`t be satisfied to just walk away from the relationship.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She said, you could do it for 1,000.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Strom denied that she was serious about the murder and that she had intended to call it off the following morning. She told police she hadn`t called it off yet because she was too busy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To Jim Miller, news director at WSPT. Jim, thanks for being with us. So the traditional money wouldn`t work? She wanted to have sex with the hit man, too?
JIM MILLER, WSPT: Thanks, Nancy. It`s pretty amazing when you think of how quiet and nice Wisconsin can be. This really shocked folks in this region of the country. And yes, very surprising, 33-year-old Jessica Strom is charged with committing third-degree intentional homicide and currently out on a quarter million dollar bond. The defense attorney for Strom asked the judge to order a competency exam for her client.
GRACE: Oh, no, not again! She could go through all this, she could find a hit man, she could offer him $1,000 and sex, some sex, which is what she said -- her words, not mine -- some sex plus money to, quote, blow the brains out of her fiance, a lawyer, who, Jim Miller, by all accounts is a pretty mild-mannered lawyer. The victim in this case, John Shelsheffer (ph).
MILLER: Absolutely. A man who works in the area. A local attorney. Apparently she wasn`t happy with this man, but apparently hurting her in certain ways, we can get into that, but there is no reason to --
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute, wait a minute. She says he hurt her? Is that what you said?
MILLER: Yes, she apparently--
GRACE: Why didn`t she just break up? Why did she plan to kill him and have sex with a hit man and a thousand dollars to kill -- it`s her boyfriend, essentially. Why not just leave? That`s what I don`t get, Jim.
MILLER: Yes. She asked about getting out of the relationship, and she said I didn`t have any satisfaction doing it that way, so she sets up this appointment, which is a diagram of her ex-fiance`s workplace, and all the details--
GRACE: Wait, Jim Miller, she writes a diagram to give to the hit man?
MILLER: Here is the thing. This hit man is a classmate at one of the local colleges, who happens to be a pilot. Nancy, pilots are quite detailed, so this place is well, apparently, mapped out. She`s got all this planned when this guy walks in, her ex walks in, the plan is to blow his brains out.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Dwayne Cates, Michael Mazzariello. I want to actually see their faces, please. Can you get them up for me. All right, Mazzariello, Cates, the two of you had a jolly old time claiming incompetency and insanity the whole hour tonight, but she actually draws a detailed map, not that I think a hit man is (inaudible) under any circumstance. But I think your claim, which you always scream out, it`s like a wheel, just the same thing over and over. Incompetency, insanity. She draws a detailed map, Michael, a map, a diagram. How are you going to say she`s crazy?
MAZZARIELLO: Nancy, there could be two things happening here. She could be crazy enough that she drew the diagram, but also he did mention there could be some kind of abuse there. Now, women that are in bad relationships sometimes --
GRACE: You got a nerve. You got a nerve.
MAZZARIELLO: Nancy, that`s what we`re paid big money to do. We come up with defenses that are viable that juries can actually understand. It does (inaudible) call for a mental examination.
CATES: You don`t even need the insanity defense.
GRACE: She even offered to have sex with the hit man.
CATES: The hit man was her ex-boyfriend. She had had sex with him before, not a big deal.
GRACE: Oh, oh, it doesn`t count. Just erase it. It didn`t happen.
(CROSSTALK)
CATES: This is entrapment. They had a first meeting and speculated about whether or not he would kill somebody for money. They talked about it, they joked about it, and then the guy, with the help of the police, set him back up.
GRACE: She`s going to jail.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: You know, she`s caught on tape. The guy had the wherewithal to tape it all so he couldn`t get roped in on a murder charge. There you go, we`re following the case of Jessica Ann Strom. When we get back, a single homeless mother trying her best to dig out of the hole she`s in. Thrown in jail for leaving her kids in the only home they`ve got, their Dodge Durango, for 45 minutes, while she goes on a job interview. If that`s the law, then the law is an a-s-s.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She heard a baby crying inside. The windows were cracked a little bit, the car was not running. The kids were unattended at that point.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Now to Scottsdale, Arizona, a homeless single mother trying to dig out of the hole she`s in brings her two children with her when she gets a job interview. To go on that interview, she leaves her two children in the only home they have, their Dodge Durango. Tonight, this single homeless mother is thrown in jail for leaving her children in the Durango for 45 minutes while she tries to get a job. And if that`s the law, then the law is an ass. Okay.
You know, Greg Paul, joining me, news director of 960 The Patriot. Greg, I`ve covered so many cases where moms and dads leave the children in the car, many times they die, and the parents don`t even get charged, but this mom gets thrown in jail and her children get hauled off to foster care.
GREG PAUL, 960 THE PATRIOT: That`s right, Nancy. You know, here in Arizona they`re really cracking down on this sort of thing. They`re having zero tolerance simply because any time of the year in Arizona, it`s very dangerous to leave your pets or especially your children in the car. On the day this happened, it was about 82 outside, but inside the car, over 100, so police really cracking down on this. Because if it was two weeks from now, we`d be doing a story about two children who died in the car.
GRACE: But it wasn`t two weeks from now. Take a look at this. Andrew Sosa, dad leaves baby girl in a car, parties at a strip club. Daniel Gray, dad smokes pot while baby dies in a hot car. Heather Jensen, mom leaves two kids dying in a hot car while she has sex in the parking lot. Brenda Nasselroad-Slaby, a principal who goes to work, leaves her baby in the car, eight hours, the baby dies, the principal was never charged. Lucy Ann Hoffman, dad leaves 2-year-old in a car while visiting a brothel. A whorehouse. Sametta Heyward, mom bathed and dressed toddlers after they died in a hot car while she was at work.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: You know, this mom can`t win for losing. If she didn`t try to get a job, everybody would scream she`s on welfare. She`s in a job interview, she`s homeless, and she`s single. She leaves her children in the car while she goes on a job interview. Police throw her in jail.
Clark Goldband, what do you have?
GOLDBAND: Nancy, this is what we know from authorities. You can see behind me this Dodge Durango. Take a look. This is what law enforcement is saying. No. 1, the engine was not running. Keep in mind it was in the high 70s, low 80s that day. Also, the blower motor, the air conditioning was not on. Hot air was pumping. Take a look at all the windows. Dark tinted windows, only cracked about an inch, according to authorities, and also, Nancy, perhaps most concerning, law enforcement says they were able to enter through the unlocked driver`s door, and the keys were in the ignition.
So while many are saying they understand that this is a terrible situation, some others are saying this mom needs to re-evaluate her parenting.
GRACE: What I don`t understand, Greg Paul, is how this principal, Brenda Nesselroad-Slaby, leaves her baby in the car eight hours and the baby dies and she`s never charged.
(CROSSTALK)
PAUL: -- because no matter what time of the year here in Arizona, it could be deadly leaving children in the car. I can`t really comment on why they didn`t charge her in that case, but I think if this happened now, she would be.
GRACE: So often people are charged, but they`re not put in jail. I mean, come on, Greg Paul, have you ever heard me argue that somebody should not be put in jail? It`s extremely rare. But in this case, you`ve got a homeless mother trying to get a job. She leaves the kids in the car to go on the interview, she was in the interview. We confirmed that. Now she`s still in jail, and the children are in foster care. God knows what`s happening to them in foster care. There is a way to help. Youcaring.com. Please go there if you want to help.
Let`s stop and remember American hero, Army Sergeant Josue Chavez. 23. Reno, Nevada. Two Army Commendation Medals, National Defense Service Medal. Loved fast cars. Parents Pedro and Ustolia. Two sisters. Josue Chavez. American hero.
Drew up next with the latest in the newlywed murder trial. I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
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