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Nancy Grace
Body May Be That of Missing Danielle Locklear; Co-Ed Murder Caught on Webcam
Aired April 08, 2014 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Hope Mills, North Carolina. A little girl last seen walking down the street to her friend`s house, she`s gone. Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, human remains have just been found. Are these remains the missing girl, Danielle Locklear?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Missing teen, 15-year-old Danielle Locklear.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is there a deputy that`s close by with a pair of binoculars (INAUDIBLE) to make sure it`s not a body in the water?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The body of a young female found floating in the South River.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Taken to the state medical examiner`s office so it can be identified.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And a 23-year-old co-ed in the middle of a live Web chat with her long-distance boyfriend when she`s brutally murdered as the boyfriend looks on in horror, helplessly watching the whole thing go down, long- distance Webcam.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Liu was chatting on Webcam with her ex-boyfriend when someone came into her room and attacked her. It was dubbed the Webcam murder.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Murdered while she was chatting on her Webcam.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Liu`s partially clothed body was found in her basement apartment near the school. The friend saw a white male struggle with Liu in her apartment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And Cajun country. He gets elected because he claims to be an honest, no-nonsense, deeply religious Christian, a married father of five. But tonight, caught on camera. Grainy surveillance video obtained by "The Ouachita Citizen," Louisiana Rep Vance McAllister intentionally cuts the lights off so his office security cameras won`t catch him in a sexy clinch with a much younger staff member.
But guess what, McAllister? Security cams come with infrared these days. Hello? You`re busted!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. VANCE MCALLISTER (R), LOUISIANA: You can count on me to take those values to Washington.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: U.S. Representative Vance McAllister of Louisiana, a married man with five children, caught canoodling with a woman who is not his wife inside McAllister`s office, a compromising image for a Southern Republican who ran on family values.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, Olympic superstar Oscar Pistorius AKA "Blade Runner" shoots to fame, breaking world records running on prosthetics, guns down his girlfriend, claiming he thought she was an intruder. After much vomiting and crying in court, in the last hours, Olympic hero Oscar Pistorius on the stand.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OSCAR PISTORIUS, ON TRIAL FOR MURDER: That`s the moment that everything changed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For the first time, Oscar Pistorius recounting the night he shot and killed Reeva Steenkamp.
PISTORIUS: I found the door open. I threw it open, and I sat over Reeva and I cried (INAUDIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And Oklahoma, a police officer attacked from behind by a scissors-wielding maniac. We have the video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You won`t believe what you`ll see. A police officer pulls over an SUV for a routine traffic stop, when suddenly, Jessica Lugo (ph), a woman he`s never met, approaches him from behind and starts stabbing the officer in the back. And it`s all captured by the dashboard camera of his police vehicle.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. Hope Mills, North Carolina, a little girl last seen walking down the street to her friend`s house, gone. In the last hours, human remains have been found. Is it missing girl Danielle Locklear.
Joining me right now, Dan O`Donnell with Newstalk WISN. Dan, what do we know? Where were the remains found?
DAN O`DONNELL, WISN: The remains were found in this river near a bridge, Nancy, roughly 24 miles from the home from which Danielle disappeared a little less than a month ago.
GRACE: You are seeing a shot of Danielle and the map we`ve created for you to get some type of a visual of what we`re talking about. The tip line, 910-425-4103. We are learning human remains have been found. Are they missing girl Danielle Locklear?
Dan, if you would, take me through her going missing.
O`DONNELL: Well, on March 11th, she told her grandfather, whom she was living with, that she was going to go to a friend`s house in the same neighborhood where that grandfather lived to retrieve some sort of item. It appears she never made it there. The next day, the grandfather called police. She was missing. That was almost a month ago. She has not been seen since.
About two days after she disappeared, a couple of her items of clothing were found in a nearby RV park. But so far in a month, Nancy, that is the only trace of her that`s been found.
GRACE: Dan O`Donnell joining me. Dan, we knew that some of her clothing had been found in an RV camp. We thought it was some of her clothing. How far is that RV camp from the spot where these human remains have been found?
O`DONNELL: As I understand it, it is roughly 20 to 24 miles. The RV park campground area was an area that Danielle and her friends...
GRACE: Right.
O`DONNELL: ... would apparently go often. It`s a popular hangout in North Carolina.
GRACE: Right. And so how far...
O`DONNELL: And this body was found nearby.
GRACE: ... did you say it was the -- the body from the RV camp? That`s my question. How far?
O`DONNELL: I believe 20 miles, roughly.
GRACE: That`s quite a good ways.
Everyone, human remains, as we go to air, have been found. And we have reason to believe it may be missing girl Danielle Locklear. You`re seeing video of her we just obtained from YouTube. Danielle Locklear with her grandfather, tells her grandpa, I`m going right down the street to get my stuff from a friend`s house. She never comes back, immediately reported missing.
We`ve been trying to help find Danielle now for several weeks. We have just learned human remains have been found. But they`re a full 20 miles away. But are they the remains of the missing girl, Danielle Locklear?
Joining me right now, a special guest, is Danielle`s grandmother. Phyllis Fowler is with us from Hope Mills. Ms. Fowler, thank you for being with us. What are police telling you about these remains?
PHYLLIS FOWLER, DANIELLE`S GRANDMOTHER (via telephone): The only thing that we know is that it is just still a big waiting game. We had hoped for some finality yesterday. But sometimes, things just take longer than we anticipate. And I`m not sure if it`s a good thing or a bad thing at this point.
GRACE: Everyone, our prayers and hopes going out to the family of Danielle Locklear. Her grandmother, Phyllis Fowler, joining us. Tip line -- take a look at this girl -- 910-425-4103. It is a waiting game. As we stand by on the ready, we`ll find out the latest on any type of confirmation, we`ll let you know.
When we come back, a 23-year-old co-ed brutally murdered as her boyfriend looks on in horror, helplessly watching the whole thing go down on long-distance Webcam.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The chat was interrupted by a knock at the door.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Opened the door to a male.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Liu was in trouble, but it was already too late.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And then later, a police officer attacked from behind.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: A 23-year-old co-ed in the middle of a live Web chat with her long-distance boyfriend when she`s brutally murdered. The boyfriend looks on in horror, helplessly watching the whole thing go down on long-distance Webcam.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Liu`s ex-boyfriend was Web chatting with her when he saw Dickson force his way into her room and knock her down.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Liu was in trouble, but it was already too late.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police found Liu`s body later that day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I can`t believe it! Brett Larson, investigative reporter, the boyfriend is having a Web chat with her, long-distance Webcam, and he sees his girlfriend murdered on Webcam? What happened?
BRETT LARSON, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Nancy, it`s absolutely terrible. He`s having this conversation with her. He hears in the background that knock at the door. She lets the gentleman in. He comes in and viciously attacks her, knocks her to the ground.
GRACE: Wa-wa-wait! Wa-wait! Back it up! Back it up! Brett Larson, did she know the perp? Why would she let him in? Were they in school together?
LARSON: They lived in the same apartment building with each other, so this was definitely someone that she knew. He had apparently come by for - - to get something, to pick up a cell phone. There was some excuse for why he needed to be there that she bought into, letting him into the apartment.
Then he gets on top of her, strangles her. And the ex-boyfriend hopelessly and helplessly watches this entire thing go down on Webcam, unable to do anything to help her.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Robert Schalk with me from New York, Kirby Clements, defense attorney, Atlanta. And joining me, special guest Robert Nuttall, the defendant attorney from the suspect, Brian Dickson.
OK, first to you, Kirby Clements. That is a new twist in the law because he is an eyewitness, but he`s thousands of miles away on a Webcam when he sees this. There`s no doubt his eyewitness testimony is going to be attacked on cross-exam, claiming it was grainy, You couldn`t see it, you don`t know who you saw, right?
KIRBY CLEMENTS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Oh, absolutely. I mean, it`s a little flash, little cheap videocamera. He only saw flashes of images. So I would absolutely attack that. And it should be attacked, should have been attacked.
GRACE: Well, but Robert Schalk, isn`t it true that with a video like this, if you`re recording the chat, you can actually slow the video down and get still images? Because if you can get a still image of him, that`s pretty powerful. What about that, Kirby Clements? Put that in your pocket and smoke it!
ROBERT SCHALK, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That would have...
GRACE: Go ahead, Robert.
SCHALK: That would have been powerful, but it wasn`t recording at the time.
GRACE: Oh.
SCHALK: So it`s not going to be able to be admitted in this case. It`s going to be grainy footage. And I think the witness himself even admitted that he never saw the individual`s face. So that`s a big thing the defense is going to harp on.
GRACE: But it`s interesting because, Brett Larson, this guy, the suspect, Brian Dickson -- does he have any identifiable markers, like a tattoo, a particular haircut, something about him that would be unusual even if the boyfriend didn`t get a clear shot of the face, he could still identify him?
LARSON: Well, there was nothing clearly identifiable about him when he saw him on this Webcam. The only real identifiable thing we have about this Brian Dickson...
GRACE: What about semen?
LARSON: Well, is exactly that.
GRACE: What about DNA?
LARSON: There are -- he left a lot...
GRACE: Does that work for you?
LARSON: ... of DNA -- absolutely...
GRACE: DNA?
LARSON: ... he left a lot of DNA behind on this crime scene with her.
GRACE: Let`s see the defense lawyers, Robert Schalk, Kirby Clements. So you two are trying to tell me we can`t get an ID because the boyfriend on long-distance Webcam didn`t get a clear picture of the face of the perpetrator as he murdered his girlfriend. Kirby, does DNA work for you? You think that`s enough of an identifier?
CLEMENTS: DNA certainly has been used, and it certainly can help...
GRACE: Whoa-whoa! Certainly has been used...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: It`s like 1 in 3 trillion...
CLEMENTS: Well, and obviously...
GRACE: ... possibility that it could be anybody but him. That`s more people than on the earth!
CLEMENTS: And that would have been very -- and that is better than the boyfriend on grainy videocamera. I would concede that.
GRACE: You know, that hurt, didn`t it. I could tell you by the way you stuttered...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: OK, that might work.
LARSON: Yes, but I did smoke that last thing you told me to smoke.
(LAUGHTER)
GRACE: All right, Schalk, what about it? I know the ID can be attacked. But we`ve got semen and DNA in the semen.
SCHALK: Nancy, this wouldn`t be a case of identification if I was the defense attorney. This would be a case of not an intentional murder, an unintended crime, meaning a manslaughter, try to go for the lesser included. The DNA is very, very powerful, I`ll have to admit. But with regards to -- if you add it all up, the boyfriend not being able to make the identification on camera, and you argue it was unintended, no one really knows what happened there other than the defendant. He`s not going to testify. You have a shot at going for the lesser included.
GRACE: OK, Clark Goldband, what do you know?
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: This is not the first time that this gentleman has been arrested, although it`s the first time he`s being charged. Take a look at 2006, accused of sexual assault, raping a woman in a bar. Those charges, however, were dropped.
But Nancy, it doesn`t stop there. Back in 2008, a former girlfriend alleged that he choked her. However, she decided not to pursue charges. Fast forward again to 2010, he`s accused of shoplifting. But Nancy, again, those charges dropped. All three of those cases no convictions, just charges.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say one person witnessed her final moments.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The friend saw a white male struggle with Liu in her apartment before the attacker turned off the Webcam.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This computer is currently missing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Everyone, I`m going to take you right back to the co-ed murder caught on Webcam. But right now, I`m getting more information about the human remains just found. Are they the missing girl, Danielle Locklear?
With me, Justin Freiman and Dr. Michelle Dupre, medical examiner and pathologist. First, of course, to you, Justin. I`m hearing now it absolutely is a female body, is that correct?
JUSTIN FREIMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Nancy, that`s correct. That`s what we`ve been told.
GRACE: OK. I also am hearing that it`s on the county line. What do we mean by that? Where`s the body exactly? And it`s the South River?
FREIMAN: It is the South River. It runs along the Cumberland-Sampson County line, about 24 miles from her home.
GRACE: OK. We`re also learning, everyone, at this hour, human remains have been found. We are waiting for a confirmation. Are they missing girl Danielle Locklear? We now know it is a female body. We now know it is in the South River, about 20 miles from her home. We are also getting information that the person may have died from asphyxiation. A sock was found in the throat of the unidentified female. The body has been taken to the county morgue, and we`re waiting on an identification.
We are also learning that two homes are being searched, have been searched, Justin? What do we know about that?
FREIMAN: Nancy, that`s correct. Two homes were searched near her home, and items were seen being taken out of one of those homes.
GRACE: To Dr. Michelle Dupre, medical examiner and forensic pathologist. Dr. Dupre, thank you for being with us. Doctor, they are saying they may be able to make a visual identification. How is that? If this is Danielle, she went down walking one block from her home, never seen again by her grandparents -- how can they make a visual ID if she`s been in the water all this time in the South River?
DR. MICHELLE DUPRE, MEDICAL EXAMINER, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST (via telephone): Nancy, that`s a good question. She may actually not have been in the water this entire time. That may be a more recent event. If she has been in the water this time, it may be more difficult. But if there are identifying marks, scars or tattoos that may still be visible, that might be the possibility.
GRACE: Guys, this young girl walked one block to a friend`s home, never seen again. Tonight, we are waiting for a positive identification. And now the work really begins. What happened to Danielle Locklear? We are standing by.
Back to the co-ed murder caught on Webcam.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Liu`s partially clothed body was found in her basement apartment near the school. The friend saw a white male struggle with Liu in her apartment before the attacker turned off the Webcam.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say one person may have witnessed her final moments.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Turns out Liu was chatting with a friend, but that chat was interrupted by a knock at the door. Police say the on-line witness saw that man and a physical struggle between him and Liu. Police say the witness did everything he could to notify friends that Liu was in trouble, but it was already too late. She didn`t answer the door.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Nicole (ph) Liu, just 23 years old when she was murdered during a long-distance Webcam chat with her boyfriend.
Clark Goldband, you were telling me that the friend who goes to school with her, lives in the same building with her, came in, had a record. Do we know why he claimed to be coming in?
GOLDBAND: Well, Nancy, it`s not clear. But according to some reports, it may have been under the pretense of possibly needing to use a cell phone.
But here`s what we`re learning, Nancy. Authorities, according to local media, have seized over 100 DVDs of porn. And now, that`s certainly not against the law. It`s not just regular porn, Nancy, it`s child porn. Authorities say 25 percent of that, child porn, and Nancy, a lot of the porn involving those of Asian origin, authorities say.
GRACE: Joining me right now, Robert Nuttall, defense attorney for Brian Dickson, the suspect in this case. Mr. Nuttall, thanks for being with us. You have quite a reputation as a very powerful defense attorney. What is the defense in this case?
ROBERT NUTTALL, ATTORNEY FOR DEFENDANT (VIA TELEPHONE): Well, hello, everyone. This is not a case of who did it. It`s a question of what happened. There`s no question that he killed her. The question was whether or not he murdered her. And to turn a killing into a murder, you need murderous intent, and that inference had to be drawn from the forensic evidence. So what it came down to was really not so much a battle but a disagreement between the forensic pathologists.
GRACE: About the throat, Clark Goldband.
GOLDBAND: Well, Nancy, authorities say they believe that she was, in fact, strangled manually, and that`s how this girl died.
GRACE: So Robert Nuttall, there was a manual strangulation. How does that fit into your theory?
NUTTALL: Not necessarily. The original pathologists found that the cause of death was unascertained. And quite frankly, there was very, very little evidence of trauma either to her body or any evidence of struggle in her room.
GRACE: Wait a minute. Didn`t she have multiple hemorrhages in the eyes? That would be the petechiae, which is a direct indication of strangulation?
NUTTALL: You`re quite right. Those are petechial hemorrhaging, and petechial hemorrhaging is a very strong indicator that, one, the blood`s been cut off, which is pressure to the neck, or more -- for our point of view, more importantly, that the air has been cut off either by way of a bizarre mechanism called berking (ph) and perhaps positional asphyxia.
If he choked her, if he squeezed her neck, there`s murderous intent, guilty of second degree. And in our country, because there was a sexual assault, it`s constructive (ph) first, and so it moves right up to first degree.
If, on the other hand, he was sitting on her chest while was sexually excited and perhaps her head was against the wall in a position of positional asphyxia, he could very, very well through his unlawful act have cut off the air to her brain. And so therefore, he would be guilty of manslaughter but not guilty of murder.
And the real issue became what was seen in the neck. Was it real bleeding, or whether it was, as the forensic pathologists say, post-mortem lividity or post-mortem pooling, an artifact created after death? And that`s what the jury had to think about.
GRACE: And it`s your contention that his being a porn aficionado would have nothing to do with this?
NUTTALL: You know, the difficulty that I have with that is that`s the evidence that was called at a bail hearing. Bail hearing evidence is never challenged. It`s one in which the evidence is put forward to show whether or not the person is a good person to be released from custody. None of the things that were alleged there were ever, ever proven. And although the...
GRACE: Well, I`m going to take that, Mr. Nuttall, as a no. And so far, you`ve successfully managed to keep that, the pornography part of it, out. With me Robert Nuttall, a very well-known defense attorney handling the case for Brian Dickson.
Everyone, when we get back -- he gets elected because he claims to be an honest, no-nonsense, deeply religious Christian, a married father of five. But tonight, caught on camera. We go to Cajun country, Louisiana rep Vance McAllister in a sexy clinch with a much younger staff member.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Another congressman caught canoodling with a woman who is not his wife, instead, a congressional staffer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A much younger congressional staffer.
Then later, a police officer attacked from behind by a scissors- wielding maniac. We have the video.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: And now live to Cajun Country. He gets elected because he claims to be an honest, no-nonsense, deeply religious Christian, a married father of five. But tonight, caught on camera, grainy surveillance video obtained by the Washataw Citizen, Louisiana Rep Vance McAllister intentionally cuts the lights off so his office security camera won`t catch him in a sexy clinch with a much younger staff member. Guess what, McAllister, security comes these days with infrared. You`re busted!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. VANCE MCALLISTER: I`m Vance McAllister.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Another congressman caught canoodling with a woman who is not his wife. The video believed to have been taken inside McAllister`s office shows him kissing a married woman on his staff. He campaigned as a Christian conservative.
MCALLISTER: I believe in Louisiana values like faith, family and hard work.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Okay. That hurts. Michelle Southern, assistant news director of Louisiana Radio Network, look, cheating is not a crime, okay? Even though he runs on a ticket of family values, everybody in Washington cheats but I don`t, blah blah blah. The same thing they all say. But when you are having sex with or having a let me just say a romantic relationship with somebody that works for you, that takes on a whole another meaning. What happened, Michelle?
MICHELLE SOUTHERN: Well, I think one of the things that is most surprising about as we`ve already mentioned is that he did run his campaign so much on a Christian and family values platform, and then the Washataw Citizen comes out with this on Monday. And I mean, it`s a very passionate kiss, as you can see. And I guess it was just one of those really really unexpected things I guess for us here in Louisiana.
GRACE: Okay. Let me see that statement again. Because you know what I`m noticing, Clark Goldband, he apologizes to everybody, but you can`t even tell what he did. And he didn`t apologize to the husband of whoever that woman is, assuming she`s got a husband. Who is she?
GOLDBAND: Nancy, he apologizes for falling short, and is asking for forgiveness. Although in the apology itself, there`s no explicit apology of what the situation had. I think from almost ten years on the show, Nancy, we can agree the truly one bipartisan issue on Capitol Hill sadly may be infidelity.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyer, Robert Schalk, Kirby Clements and special guest joining me, talk show host KABC Larry Elder. Larry, here`s the thing. When you are canoodling, I`m using an in euphemism. I am putting perfume on the pig for that, Larry Elder. This guy looks a lot like Scott Peterson, and I don`t like that.
But when you`re canoodling with somebody that works for you, there`s a whole another set of implications there. Because a lot of times, women typically -- can be a man -- but a lot of times women go along with sex or sexual innuendo, with flirtations because they feel they don`t have a choice.
I`ll never forget trying a murder case in front of a judge. And he was walking along with me as we left for the day to the parking garage, not talking about the case of course. He tried to kiss me. I`m like oh, dear lord in heaven! I`ll wait until after I get a conviction, then I`ll bust him.
But long story short, you`re in a position where sometimes you don`t know if it`s wise to speak out or not. Then this can become not only a civil case of sexual harassment, but in some cases a criminal case of battery or worse.
ELDER: Right. Well, Nancy, no judge has ever tried to kiss me. So rest assured that`s never happened to me.
GRACE: I`ll pass that judge along to you, okay? He`s still on the bench. Sadly.
ELDER: I agree with Michelle. The reason this is a big story is because of the hypocrisy here. This is a guy who ran on a family values ticket. But I must say, the bar in Louisiana is set pretty low for politicians. We`ve had Ray Nagin get busted for corruption, we have Edwin Edwards who just got out of prison, the former governor of Louisiana for corruption. Going to run again. We`ve had Huey Long, we have William Jefferson, who had 90 grand in the freezer. This is a state that has had a long tradition of sleazy politicians. This is one more in a continuing tradition of that.
GRACE: You know what, let`s start with this is one state with sleazy politicians. All states have sleazy politicians. A given. Let`s just start with that. But I want to talk about the fact this could easily turn into a sex harassment case. Or if this wasn`t willing -- it looked willing to me. But if this wasn`t willing, this could turn into some type of criminal charge, Kirby.
CLEMENTS: If he touched her inappropriately, although this video doesn`t suggest it was in any way criminal because she seems to be going along with it.
GRACE: You`re saying no criminal activity, Robert?
CLEMENTS: Not at all.
SCHALK: I doubt any criminal activity. But it would be most important as we see with a lot of these cases, to see if text messages were exchanged, e-mails were exchanged. Because that type of evidence can`t be deleted. It`s always going to be backed up. So if that comes out, you may see criminal charges. Doubt it. More on the civil road.
GRACE: Out to clinical psychologist Dr. Seth Meyers. Thanks for being with us. Politicians are public figures. How do they think they can perform shenanigans like this and not be busted?
MEYERS: Well, the problem is they`re really not thinking at all. Political power breeds a special sort of narcissism, where a lot of these politicians think that they can have it both ways. They can play a certain act to the world, but then there`s someone else very different behind closed doors.
GRACE: Clark, do we know anything else?
GOLDBAND: Nancy, I think what we found on the home page of McAllister for Congress may sum it up best as Larry pointed out. McAllister says he`s running for Louisiana`s values. Now, whether you`re conservative or liberal, I think you can agree, none of this shows Louisiana or the nation`s values.
GRACE: I`m going to leave this up to the Cajuns who put him in office. Everybody when we come back, after much crying and vomiting in the last hours, Olympic hero Oscar Pistorius on the stand.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PISTORIUS: That`s the moment that everything changed. I was screaming and shouting the whole time. Before I knew it, I`d fired five shots at the door. I kept on shouting for Reeva.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And then later, a police officer attacked from behind by a scissors-wielding maniac. We have the video.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Olympic superstar Oscar Pistorius, the Blade Runner, shoots to fame breaking world records, even running on prosthetics. Guns down his girlfriend, claiming he thought she was an intruder. After much crying and vomiting in court today, in the last hours the Olympic hero, Oscar Pistorius, on the stand.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oscar Pistorius recounting the night he shot and killed Reeva Steenkamp.
PISTORIUS: I was crying and shouting the whole time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Olympic sprinter known as the blade runner shot her through a bathroom door with his .9 millimeter pistol.
PISTORIUS: Before I knew it I`d fired four shots at the door. I flung the door open. I didn`t hear anything. So I shouted and I kept on shouting for Reeva.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Joining me right now, CNN anchor and international correspondent Robyn Curnow. Robyn, thank you for being with us. Is it true that Pistorius vomited and cried up until the time he took the stand and had to be let off the stand because of his crying?
ROBYN CURNOW, CNN: What we saw today was a deeply visceral, emotional response as he remembered, as he recounted those details, that moment in his narrative where he found Reeva Steenkamp, when he said he realized that he had shot her dead. What you heard and you heard a snippet of it before you came to me, was this deep sobbing, uncontrollable crying. It was like a howling, actually. I mean, I was in court much of the day. And it was a very, very uncomfortable feeling watching him. Also, his family, Reeva Steenkamp`s family. It was very emotional. People crying. And this was not put on. This was not drama. This was not theater. This was deeply authentic, deeply traumatic not just for him but for everybody watching.
GRACE: That`s interesting that you would say that. That it was not put on and it was not an act. Because the law is that one may immediately, not just at trial in front of the trier of fact, one may immediately regret the deed and feel deep, deep remorse, but that does not negate the intent at the time of the shooting. So Robyn Curnow, it`s my understanding from the testimony I listened to that he went to the window to adjust a fan, shut the window, the room was dark. Was on his stumps. Approached the bed where Reeva had been lying. The holster was on her side of the bed, and he would have been at eye level with the mattress?
CURNOW: I think the key question is simple. Is did he know she was in bed and did he know she was shooting at her? And of course, that`s the whole premise of this case, as you rightly say. This is about intent versus negligence. Neither you nor I nor anybody else can judge on his emotional state. That`s going to come out in court. And it`s up to the judge to make that final decision. However, was he aware that it was her? Well, he said today he wasn`t away, that they had spoken just before he got up to fix up -- to sort out that fan, that she was awake, and that he thought she was a burglar. Of course the defense is going to paint this picture and has been in the process of painting the picture of him as being vulnerable, paranoid, terrified, that he made this reckless, perhaps irrational action based on the fact that he is a double amputee, there`s a high crime rate in South Africa. Whether or not you believe him or not, that`s inconsequential. It`s up to the judge to make a decision based on fact and the law here in South Africa.
GRACE: Actually, that`s the law pretty much everywhere, Robyn. To Tara Meany, anchor and reporter with Talk Radio 702. Tara, question, let me get back to the question I tried to ask Robyn Curnow. He says he`s on his stumps and he goes and gets the gun from under the bed. The holster was on Reeva Steenkamp`s side of the bed. On his stumps, he is at eye level with the mattress. He had to see she wasn`t in the bed, Tara.
MEANY: Well, that`s right. From what we understand and during a demonstration that was acted out graphically in court where he changed clothing actually to go and stand next to the door, we could see the difference in height, where he`s on his stumps and then when he`s not with his stumps.
However, the placement of the gun did not come into question today in court. He did, however, point out that earlier on that evening before he shot and killed Reeva Steenkamp, he had moved the gun beside the bed. He did not say on which side of the bed he did move it, but he said it was easily accessible from its holster from under the bed when he did go to connect it.
GRACE: Interesting. With me, Nathi Mincube, spokesman for the National Prosecution Authority. You know, what`s interesting to me is, that neighbors claimed they heard a man and a woman loudly arguing just before a series of shots, of gunshots. After the first shot, they heard a woman screaming and then three more gunshots. How does that jibe with the theory of premeditation?
NATHI MINCUBE, NATIONAL PROSECUTION AUTHORITY: Well, first and foremost I have to make it clear that because I speak on behalf of the National Prosecution Authority, which is responsible for the charges that were prepared against Mr. Oscar Pistorius, I`m not at liberty to discuss the merits of the matter. And the question that is asked it goes right directly into the merits of the matter.
But I can just tell you briefly that of course, what we have done as the Prosecution Authority is to present the evidence that we thought is credible, is admissible. And of course with the view to put all the facts before the presiding officer. And that is basically our role in the matter at this point in time.
GRACE: Everyone, when we come back, a police officer attacked from behind by a scissors-wielding maniac.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An Oklahoma police officer is viciously attacked with a pair of scissors. And it`s all captured by the dashboard camera of his police vehicle.
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GRACE: And now to Oklahoma. A police officer attacked from behind by a scissors-wielding maniac. We have the video.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s all caught on video. Officer Brian Maddocks is conducting a routine traffic stop, but suddenly, and without warning, he`s under attack by a woman with a pair of scissors. The woman in question walks across the street, then starts stabbing the officer in the back, continuing to slash even as he tries to retreat.
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GRACE: Joining us tonight exclusively, Officer Brent Maddocks from the Ft. Gibson Police Department. Officer, thank you for being with us. We`re watching the video right now. That came from your dash cam?
MADDOCKS: Yes, ma`am, it did.
GRACE: Okay, Officer, it`s a miracle you`re alive. If that had landed an inch closer to your neck, we`d be showing footage of your funeral tonight. What happened, Officer Maddocks?
MADDOCKS: It was all spurred off of just a traffic stop, and I mean, in law enforcement, there`s no such thing as a routine traffic stop, a routine call. No two incidents are ever the same. They may share similarities, but they are going to be different no matter what. Like I said, it spurred off of a traffic stop. I was visiting with the driver that I had pulled over for a misdemeanor moving violation. While I was conducting my business with him, he all of a sudden screamed look out. As soon as he said look out--
GRACE: I was going to ask that, why didn`t the guy in the car say, hey, watch out, here comes a maniac with a pair of scissors. I was wondering. We didn`t hear any audio with this, if he gave you a warning. I saw you kind of turn a little bit, so who is this person and why are they after you?
MADDOCKS: I have no idea, ma`am. It was just a random wrong place at the wrong time, best I can figure. I have never had any contact with her prior to this incident, nor have I had any contact with her after this incident.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An Oklahoma police officer is viciously attacked with a pair of scissors. As the officer speaks to the SUV`s driver, Jessica Lugo (ph), a woman he`s never met, approaches him from behind and attempts to stab the officer in the back. And it`s all caught on video.
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GRACE: With me tonight, that officer, Officer Brent Maddocks from Ft. Gibson P.D. Officer, you said there`s no such thing as a routine traffic stop. I remember when I first started in the district attorney`s office, a young cop, Randy Shepany (ph), routine traffic stop, a kid pulled out a gun for no reason and shot him dead. Routine traffic stop. You never know what`s going to happen. Officer, what was going through your mind when you realized this maniac was attacking you with scissors?
MADDOCKS: First thing that went through my mind was to create distance and try and figure out what was going on. Like I said, whenever the first contact was made, I didn`t know that I had been stabbed. It felt like somebody had just struck me in the back. Once I got a little bit of distance between me and the person that hit me, that`s when I could see she had something in her hand, and training kicked in, and just get away and kind of assess the situation and see how to best resolve it.
GRACE: You know, that`s amazing that you didn`t even realize at first you had been stabbed, the adrenaline pumping so much.
Everybody, a miracle, Officer Brent Maddocks, routine traffic stop, and this is what happens. This is what cops put up with every single day, the dangers that they face, and they still get out there every day to protect and serve.
Officer, thank you for being with us.
Let`s stop and remember American hero Army Specialist Kevin Hill, Brooklyn, Army Commendation Medal, National Defense Service Medal, from a military family. Loved museums and dreamed of completing law school. Parents, Olson and Mahalia. Two sisters. Kevin Hill, American hero.
And a special good night from friends of the show, Micah and Vonda. Aren`t they beautiful? Drew up next with a lawsuit filed. Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.
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