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Nancy Grace
Kansas City Killer`s Hate; Mom High on Pot Puts Baby on Top of Car; `Real Housewife` Accused of Child Neglect; Was Cheating Motive to Kill 7 Babies?
Aired April 15, 2014 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Kansas suburbs. A little boy, a grandfather, a mother gunned down mercilessly. Tonight, we dig deep and find the hate-filled spewings of the man who pulls the trigger. Could he have been stopped? Tonight, the killer exposed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FRAZIER GLENN CROSS, CHARGED WITH MURDER: That`s what Howard Stern said, and he`s a Jew liar just like you are.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is Frazier Glenn Cross.
CROSS: Of course I hate you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What have I done personally?
CROSS: I loathe you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Federal prosecutors believe that hatred was enough for Cross to shoot and kill three people outside of two Jewish centers near Kansas City.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As he`s being taken away, he shouts a neo-Nazi slogan.
CROSS: Heil Hitler!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And to Phoenix. Mommy gets high and then gets behind the wheel. But that`s the tip of the iceberg. Mommy drives around town high on weed with her tiny infant on top of her Ford Focus!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Clouser had been smoking marijuana at a nearby park and left to go get beer with the baby in tow, went to her friend`s house to smoke more weed. When she left to go home, she put her baby in the carseat on top of her car.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And she drove off.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live to the O.C. One of the most popular "Real Housewives" now facing stunning claims of child neglect as accusations of abuse fly.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Real Housewives of Orange County" star Tamara Barney (ph) has been accused of child neglect by her ex-husband. He says Tamara didn`t seek medical care for their son when he broke a finger, doesn`t feed them nutritional meals and doesn`t even have them bathe enough.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That video from Bravo`s "Real Housewives, O.C."
And tonight, Pleasant Grove. Spring cleaning turns deadly when seven tiny infants found dead, all dead at the hands of Mommy. Mommy hides seven pregnancies, says police, gives birth, only to murder each child, one after the next after the next. Breaking now, Daddy claims Mommy cheated and says, These babies are not mine. Hey, is that motive for murder, to cover up Mommy`s cheating?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Grim discovery.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Seven dead infants in the garage.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Prosecutors say she admitted to killing...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... to suffocating at least six of the newborns.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Megan Huntsman`s estranged husband says he`s not the bio dad and he knew nothing of the tiny murder victims.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And after 9/11, this could be your worst nightmare, trapped on a plane at 30,000 feet when a passenger erupts violently. But tonight, it`s all caught on tape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A woman on a flight to Tampa who had a mid-air meltdown, screaming, "God, you`re my savior" while thrashing in her seat.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What would you do if you were on this flight?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight, to Kansas suburbs. A little boy, a grandfather, a mother, gunned down mercilessly. Tonight, we dig deep and we find the hate-filled spewings of the man who pulled the trigger. Could he have been stopped? I say yes! Tonight, the killer exposed.
First of all, I want to warn all of you this is hate talk, hate talk that erupted into murder, murder times three. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CROSS: We`ve allowed tens of millions of foreign (ph) mud (ph) people to invade our country, steal our jobs and our women and destroy our children`s future. America is no longer ours. America belongs to the Jews who rule it and to the mud (ph) people who multiply in it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: What? You are hearing the voice of Frazier Glenn Cross, AKA Frazier Glenn Miller, the man who unleashed, killing three, a grandfather, a mother and a little boy, his hate spewing.
George Howell, CNN correspondent, how long had that been going on? I mean, this was on a pretty popular radio show.
GEORGE HOWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Nancy, we know he`s been very active on line. He`s been interviewed by many people. If you look at his on-line presence, you see a lot of material. It`s been posted since 2005, since really, he got out of prison. And now it`s a situation where we know that he`s been monitored by groups like the Southern Poverty Law Center.
This is a case, though, that no one expected to happen. Again, when he came onto this campus here at the Jewish community center and gunned down two people in their cars -- you mentioned those victims, William Corporon and his grandson, Reat Underwood -- and then also, Nancy, at a retirement home, Teresa (ph) LaManno was killed when she was visiting her mother.
GRACE: Joining right me now, the host of "The David Pakman Show," who interviewed Frazier Glenn Miller. David, you had to be taken a back when you heard what this guy was saying -- I mean, his hatred for Jews. He hates everybody, basically. He hates Jews. He hates African-Americans. He hates gay people. That`s just the tip of the iceberg.
DAVID PAKMAN, HOST, "THE DAVID PAKMAN SHOW": It was, yes. And I have quite a bit of experience interviewing extremists of all kinds, be they religious extremists, anti-gay, et cetera. And the thing that stood out about Miller was that most of those other ones that I mentioned, even though their rhetoric and their ideas were incredibly hateful and discriminatory, they`re very nice to me personally and they say they have no personal problem with me. In actuality, many of them want to save me.
Miller specifically said that even though he had never met me, even though I had never done anything to him specifically, he hated me because I was Jewish.
GRACE: You know, he`s a powderkeg waiting to blow. Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CROSS: Compared to our Jewish problem, all our other problems are mere distractions.
PAKMAN: OK. That`s what I thought.
CROSS: Jews control the mass media in the this country. They control the United States federal government. They control the Federal Reserve bank.
PAKMAN: In what way? In what way do they control those things?
CROSS: Well, as far as the mass media is concerned, they own outright a great deal of it. But they control -- they control it mainly through political correctness. Everybody is afraid to step over the line called political correctness, and the Jewish media has established where that line is.
PAKMAN: And where is that line?
CROSS: Well, you don`t -- you don`t criticize the Jews, for one thing. You know, the United States government has taken on the task, and it`s the responsibility of the federal government now to combat criticism of Jews in every country on earth, to include the monitoring of their books, their newspapers...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I`ve heard enough. I`ve heard enough. Joining me right now, William Martin, who actually represented this guy in a criminal case, I believe. William Martin, thank you for being with us. What -- on what case did you represent him?
WILLIAM MARTIN, FMR. ATTORNEY FOR FRAZIER GLENN CROSS (via telephone): It was a case in the eastern district of North Carolina, a federal case brought against him for contempt for violating a court order and also for violating the North Carolina statutes regarding paramilitary operations.
GRACE: OK. When you say paramilitary operations, what do you mean by that?
MARTIN: Well, according to the prosecution at the time, they had training camp, and they were, you know, training to undergo military operations, like a formal national military organization.
GRACE: Wa-wait. You mean he was training militarily to what, overthrow our government?
MARTIN: To prevent organizations and people who he did not like from taking over the government.
GRACE: OK, such as who? Who does he think is going to take over the government?
MARTIN: Well, I think he`s been pretty consistent throughout the years of African-Americans and Jewish influences.
GRACE: OK. Guys, this guy is a powderkeg waiting to happen. Now, George Howell, isn`t it true that he was charged in another case with a bunch of white supremacists, and he turned and got a lighter sentence? Isn`t that true?
HOWELL: That`s what we`ve uncovered with our reporting. And Nancy, as I mentioned, after that, you know, he took a low profile, it seems, but then started to slowly but surely put information on line to get back to the point where people could understand where he was with his opinions.
GRACE: You know what?
HOWELL: He became much more vocal as the years continued on.
GRACE: What`s so amazing to me, David Pakman, host of the "David Pakman Show," who actually interviewed this guy a couple of years ago -- you know what`s so amazing, David Pakman, is you think people like this don`t exist anymore, and tonight, it`s a wake-up call they do. David, I prosecuted a lot of hate crimes when I was a felony prosecutor. And it was crimes on African-Americans, crimes on homosexuals. It just -- it really didn`t matter. It was hate, hate-motivated murders and crimes.
You should know better than anybody because you interviewed this guy, it`s alive and well in this country.
PAKMAN: Yes, and I get asked often, in fact, the last 24 hours, why I interview people like this. It`s not to glorify their ideas. It`s not to give them a platform, as some might argue I`m doing. It`s really just to show that in kind of a broad context, a lot of guests, hundreds and hundreds of guests that I have, that these ideas exist, and that the line between words only and real world violence is a blurry line and it can be stepped over pretty quickly. And sometimes behind the microphone, you don`t really know when that`s going to happen.
GRACE: Everyone, tonight is proof that hate and hate crimes are real. They are real. They just happen.
You know, the other day, my children were in a dance contest at school, and everybody was there. Can you imagine somebody like this guy, Frazier Glenn Cross, showing up and gunning down teachers and parents and children alike? Hate doesn`t discriminate. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CROSS: I hate all Jews.
PAKMAN: OK.
CROSS: And I`ll tell you why. For me to say out of one corner of my mouth that I didn`t hate all Jews, and then out of the other corner of my mouth say that Jews caused the deliberate murders of over 300 million of my people in the 20th century alone...
PAKMAN: Right. OK.
CROSS: Of course I hate you.
PAKMAN: But what have...
CROSS: You`ve earned my have.
PAKMAN: What have I done personally?
CROSS: I loathe you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK, David Pakman, host of "The David Pakman Show," you may have been attacked for interviewing this guy. I don`t enjoy listening to him. But I`m glad that I know and I`m glad that I can alert people that hate is alive and well in this country, and that our freedom of speech borders on hate talk, and he gets away with this kind of thing because he`s protected by the Constitution.
Now we see that hate talk erupt into the murders of three innocent people. I wouldn`t be surprised if your transcript, David Pakman, doesn`t become state`s exhibit number one.
Everybody, when we come back, Mommy gets high on weed, then she gets behind the wheel. But that`s the tip of the iceberg. Then she drives around town high on weed with her tiny baby on top of her Ford Focus.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Had been smoking marijuana.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She put her baby in the carseat on top of her car.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Someone driving by saw the carseat right in the middle of the street.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And then later, after September 11, your worst nightmare, trapped on a plane, 30,000 feet, when a passenger erupts violently. This time, it`s all caught on tape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) God my savior!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: And now to Phoenix. Mommy gets high on weed and then gets behind the wheel. But that`s the tip of the iceberg. Tonight, Mommy drives around town high on weed with her tiny baby on top of her Ford Focus.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Smoked marijuana prior to getting into her car and placing her infant child, 2 months old, in a carseat on top of the roof of the car.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You want to give your side of the story about what happened?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The baby`s actually really lucky that there wasn`t anyone driving fast and just ran over it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: So let me go out to Valerie Paraso, KFYI. I just showed video of Mommy going into what looked like a pretty nice little house. What is she doing out of jail? First of all, what happened? And number two, why is Mommy out of jail?
VALERIE PARASO, KFYI NEWS (via telephone): First of all, what actually happened to get her so upset -- the baby`s father was arrested earlier in the night for driving under the influence with the baby in the back seat. He was actually going to buy beer. She was so upset that she went back to her friend`s house, admitted to smoking a couple of bowls of marijuana, put the baby...
GRACE: Wait, wait, wait, Valerie Paraso, hold on. Hold on. Back it up. Did you say a couple of bowls of marijuana?
PARASO: She said one or two additional bowls of marijuana. She was already (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: OK.
PARASO: ... time that her boyfriend was arrested.
GRACE: OK, so Clark Goldband, take it from there.
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, here`s something that we just learned from court documents. In fact, she told law enforcement, apparently, when her boyfriend is arrested that she had smoked marijuana at some point. Law enforcement drove her and the vehicle home safe to her house. And then she apparently leaves the house, goes over to the friend`s house and then when she goes over to the friend`s house hours later, leaves with the child.
But here`s the thing. She forgets the baby is on top of the car! Take a look at the map behind me, Nancy. The child is on the top of the car in their carseat for a quarter of a mile! But Mommy, Mommy does not realize this for 12 whole miles!
She circles back. And by the time she gets back to the spot on the road, passer-bys (sic) have already noticed the child in the carseat. The child is safe! Law enforcement waiting for Mommy and they cuff her on scene. A true miracle, Nancy. This baby just 5 weeks old.
GRACE: So Valerie Paraso, KFYI, she`s driving around high on weed with a baby on top of the car. And after about a quarter mile, the baby flies off the car. Amazingly, it`s in a carseat, and it lives. So passer-bys (sic) see the baby thrown off the car on the side of the road, call cops. The cops just sit there and wait for her to finally come back. She drives 15, 20 miles. And how does she find out the baby is not -- she looks around? How does she know where the baby is, Valerie?
PARASO: She actually -- she actually made it 12 miles, all the way to her house, realized, There`s no baby in my car, and turned around to go back to the path that she drove home on. And the police were there waiting for her.
GRACE: Brad Lamm, addiction specialist, founder of Breathe Life Healing Centers -- Brad, help me out here. Throw me a liferaft on this one.
BRAD LAMM, ADDICTION SPECIALIST: Well, for all the people that say pot is no big deal -- pot lowers inhibitions. It really interrupts your ability to be a good parent, Nancy.
And should this lady have spent some time in prison? My vote would be yes. Even better would be a diversion program that many drug courts are doling out across the country. What do you think of drug court?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Clouser had been smoking marijuana at a nearby park, left to go get beer with the baby in tow, went to her friend`s house to smoke more weed. When she left to go home, she put her baby in the carseat on top of her car.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And she drove off.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: So Clark Goldband, I understand Mommy high on pot, puts her baby on top of the car, drives around 15, 20 minutes. Then she realizes the baby`s gone. What actually happens -- the baby flies off the top of the car. She goes back to try to find it, and waiting on her are the place.
Clark, she said she had two more bowls of pot. How much pot did she smoke?
GOLDBAND: Well, Nancy, she certainly admitted to smoking pot, and it was an extended session, if you believe the documents because she apparently smoked prior to going to the friend`s house, then smoked at the friend`s house.
But imagine this -- 12 miles! Guys, think about that. Think about your commute in a day. Twelve miles is not a short distance. That`s 12 miles one way and then 11-and-a-half miles back. We`re talking 23-and-a-half miles until she gets back to see her 5-week-old baby. How this baby escapes unharmed, Nancy -- thank goodness for the safety of carseats. Parents, if you`re watching, make sure you use a carseat every single time!
GRACE: Well, hold on, Clark. We did a little investigation and honed in on some crime scene photos. We think it was a Greico (ph) carseat that saved the baby.
Unleash the lawyers. Joining me tonight, Renee Rockwell, who`s defended a lot of dope dealers, Peter Odom, defense attorney out of Atlanta.
All right, Renee. This isn`t your typical dope case, one of your specialties. Here you got Mommy high on weed, bowls, bowls of weed. Then she puts the baby on top of the car and drives around town.
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No difference between her and a drunk driver, Nancy. That puts...
GRACE: So?
ROCKWELL: ... all kind of people at risk.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: That`s your defense? She`s just as bad as a drunk driver?
ROCKWELL: You`re upset that she`s not in jail.
GRACE: Yes.
ROCKWELL: And unless you can`t put them in jail and keep them in jail forever, you might as well get them help. She`s on 16 years of probation, and I can assure you...
GRACE: Sixteen years of probation.
ROCKWELL: Probation...
GRACE: You know what? I`m not buying it. Peter Odom, she needs to be in jail, and then when she gets out of jail, then she can go to some type of a rehab.
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, prosecutors always think, Nancy, that jail somehow -- jail time solves all the world`s problems.
GRACE: I don`t think it solves all the world`s problems.
ODOM: I don`t happen to agree with that.
GRACE: I don`t, either.
ODOM: In fact, I think what this woman needs -- I think what this woman needs is rehab so that she can be a safer parent because society will put this child back with her. Let`s do something to make sure that she`s a safer parent, not just lock her in jail. Please.
GRACE: OK, hold on. Hold on. The two of you are saying this is no worse than drunk driving. So what, those are my alternatives? When I get out in my minivan with the twins in the back, I got to worry about this woman high on weed or a drunk driver? Why can`t I just have somebody stone, cold sober? Have you two ever heard of that?
ODOM: Nancy, the reason this case...
GRACE: What?
ODOM: The reason this case is on your show is not because she smoked weed and drove. The reason the case is on your show is because she did something very negligent as a parent. Let`s -- let`s resolve that problem.
GRACE: It`s not negligent. I think it`s an aggravated assault.
ODOM: It`s highly negligent.
GRACE: Dr. Michelle Dupre, medical examiner, forensic pathologist -- very quickly, Dr. Dupre, when you have two bowls of weed, what does that do to you?
DR. MICHELLE DUPRE, MEDICAL EXAMINER, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST (via telephone): Nancy, you get all kinds of repercussions from that -- difficulty thinking, difficulty problem solving, memory losses, altered perception, all kinds of impaired coordination. It`s just as bad as drinking.
GRACE: Everybody, we`re on it. Catalina Clouser, 21, out from behind bars.
When we come back, one of the most popular "Real Housewives" now facing stunning claims of child neglect. I`m talking not feeding, broken bones, not giving them baths, he children having bugs in their hair, not changing their underwear for days on end. Accusations of abuse fly.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tamara neglects their children, doesn`t get them medical care when needed, doesn`t feed them nutritional meals, and doesn`t even have them bathe enough.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Then possibly your worst nightmare, trapped on a plane, 30,000 feet, another passenger erupts violently. This time, it`s all caught on tape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: God, you`re my savior! God, you`re my savior!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: We go live to the O.C., one of the most popular "Real Housewives" now facing stunning claims of child neglect, as accusations of abuse fly.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The reality TV star`s ex, Simon Barney, has filed court papers asking for the custody of their three children. He claims Tamara neglects their children, doesn`t get them medical care when needed, doesn`t feed them nutritional meals, and doesn`t even have them bathe enough.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why does she always feel the need to make everybody else feel stupid?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That video from Bravo`s "Real Housewives of O.C."
OK, Alexis Tereszcuk, senior reporter, RadarOnline.com. These charges, you know, this is not a publicity stunt, I don`t think. Because the charges include information that says your daughter stinks. She`s only -- she just turned 8. I think -- don`t even want to say the little girl`s name, stinks. Because the mother doesn`t bathe her, according to these accusations.
In fact, the little girl`s hair is so matted that they found a bug or bugs -- I can only assume lice, I don`t know -- matted in the child`s hair. That when they looked several days after the last time they saw the little girl to the bathroom, she had on the same underwear. The underwear had not been changed.
No baths. No food in the house. The little boy broke a bone and doesn`t get taken to the doctor. The little girl sick and vomiting, vomiting, vomiting, never gets taken to the doctor.
What the hey is going on? How can she be propped up on a reality show as a real housewife, all glamorous and gorgeous, and her children don`t have their underwear changed and they`re not eating, and they have a broken bone, they don`t go to the doctor; and there`s bugs in their hair?
ALEXIS TERESZCUK, REPORTER, RADARONLINE.COM: This is exactly what her ex- husband is saying. This is a really nasty custody battle. And what he`s saying is that, because she`s on the show, she is so out of touch with her children that she no longer is taking care of them.
But the not eating, he says that her whole lifestyle is eating out now. So she never has nutritious food in the home for these children. He says that she`s just ignoring them.
She did ignore her little boy who had a jammed thumb. It was days and days. He kept complaining, telling his mom that his thumb hurt. The dad says finally he came home to him, and they took him to the doctor, and he had a broken thumb. It wasn`t just a bruise.
He also said that little girl, she was not bathed. She`s only 8 years old. So I say it`s not really her responsibility. It`s the parent`s responsibility. Says that she smelled so badly that he had to throw her immediately in the shower.
And this is all the mom -- Tamara fights back. She says she was sick. "She`s been so sick, I couldn`t get her to go up." Those are what her excuses are. And he says absolutely not an acceptable excuse. You are not taking care of the child properly.
GRACE: Wait a minute. Alexis, how long was she sick? Everybody is seeing video from "Real Housewives of Orange County: from Bravo.
How long was she sick, Alexis? I mean, one child has a broken bone. One hair -- child has its hair matted with bugs in it. There`s no food in the house. The one child is sick and doesn`t get taken to the doctor. The schoolwork`s going down the crapper. I mean, how long was she sick? Months?
TERESZCUK: Well, the mom didn`t say exactly how long she was sick. But the mom actually said -- Tamara actually said she was sick when she got here. So it seems like she had been sick for a while.
But then she also defends herself a few times in the paper, saying, "She was only with me one day. Maybe she got sweaty at school" for why she smelled so badly.
GRACE: OK. Let`s go to Alex McCord, former "Real Housewife," host of "The Real Deal" on Star.com.
Alex, you know Tamara Barney. What do you think of these claims that she`s totally neglecting her children while she`s filming "Real Housewives"?
ALEX MCCORD, FORMER "REAL HOUSEWIFE": Well, it`s really easy to get caught up in filming. And when the producers say, "Come on, we need you. We need you to take a trip. We need you to go away. We need you to film for hours."
GRACE: Put her up please. Wait, wait, wait. Are you telling me -- I`m not caught up. When my children need a bath, they get a bath. When they were little, they got three baths a day. I was so afraid they`d get diaper rash.
MCCORD: Exactly.
GRACE: Bath, bath, bath. So what are you saying? It`s easy to get caught up in filming? Filming what? They all get drunk and start a fight? Filming what?
MCCORD: I tell you what. If she doesn`t have a nanny 24/7 at home when she has custody of the kids, Simon can go after her. And there`s more at stake here. I know that Simon wants to keep her from filming with the kids, so he is going to do whatever it takes to get full custody and get them out of her house and off camera.
GRACE: Patricia Saunders, clinical psychologist, you`ve seen so many child abuse and child neglect cases. And as I`ve always said, when I was working at the battered women`s center, it`s across every socioeconomic. It`s not about education. It`s not about race. It`s not about money. Same thing with child neglect and child abuse. It doesn`t matter if you`re rich and gorgeous and beautiful and you`re on the "Real Housewives" of whatever. It still happens. In homes you`d never imagine it.
And listen, Patricia, if we`re hearing about not bathing the children. They`ve got bugs in their hair. They`ve got a broken bone that they weren`t taken to the doctor. That`s what we know of. Those are the allegations that we know of. What is that we don`t know, Patricia?
PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Just use your imagination, Nancy. There`s a litany of possibilities. Sexual abuse and worse. That there`s a great book called "Lost in the Mirror." This woman is so busy with herself that the children are not even pieces of furniture for her. Pathological narcissism, to be technical.
GRACE: Right now no charges of sex abuse. No criminal charges filed yet. These are court documents in a civil case. Unleash the lawyers.
But first Stacey Newman. What more can you tell me, Stacey?
STACEY NEWMAN: Tamara has just spoken out and said these allegations are B.S. They`re hurtful for the children, Nancy. Remember, Simon himself was actually on the show with their children. So how bad can this show actually be for the kids if he himself was on it with the children?
GRACE: Well, you know what? I`m not as worried -- Renee Rockwell, Peter Odom, we`re not as worried about them getting filmed on this show as I`m worried about possible lice and not being fed and a broken bone. I mean, Renee, a broken bone that they didn`t get taken to the doctor?
ROCKWELL: Well, Nancy, this kind of pales in comparison to the child abuse that we see very often.
GRACE: OK. This is just like the last case.
ROCKWELL: This is a custody battle. And if he`s not in there stopping this before it gets to that point, then I blame him just as much, Nancy. He can go in there...
GRACE: He`s the one bringing the charges, Renee. You`re just trying to make me not think about her and think about him.
And Peter, you and Renee are doing it again. The last one, when we`re talking about mom on weed with the baby on the car, your defense was, well, this is just -- there`s no worse than drunk driving. So now you`re saying this is nothing compared to some child neglect cases I`ve seen. That`s not a defense, Peter.
ODOM: Well, Nancy, listen to what I have to say about this.
GRACE: Hit me.
ODOM: These are broad allegations made by a father in a very ugly custody case. You`ve got to take this with a grain of salt. Are you just going to take everything he says as -- at face value?
GRACE: No. No, I`m not.
ODOM: Good.
GRACE: But I will tell you this. I will tell you this, Peter. Whether he had a broken bone or not, it`s not really open to interpretation. Whether the child had bugs in her hair, it`s not open to interpretation. Teachers are going to know about this. It`s not just what the dad says. And you know what? We`ll get to the truth of it.
Very quickly, to tonight`s case alert manhunt. A 52-year-old convicted child sex predator on the run. He cut off his ankle monitor. Wisconsin police say he`s done it before. He did it in February. Tip line, Opaca County Sheriff`s. Take a look, 715-258-4466.
When we come back, seven tiny infants dead in cardboard boxes at the hands of mommy. Breaking tonight, daddy claims mommy cheated, that these babies are not his. Is that the motive for murder? Mommy murders seven infants to cover up her own cheating?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Seven tiny babies found dead in cardboard boxes, hidden in a garage. According to reports, her then husband says, "The babies are not mine."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And then possibly your worst nightmare. Trapped on a plane 30,000 feet. Another passenger erupts violently. This time it`s caught on tape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: God, you`re my savior. God, you`re my savior! God, you`re my savior. God, you`re my -- God, you`re my savior.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: And now Pleasant Grove. Spring cleaning turns deadly. Seven tiny infants dead in cardboard boxes. All at the hands of mommy, says police. Mommy hides seven pregnancies, gives birth, only to murder one child after the next after the next.
Breaking right now, daddy`s claiming mommy cheated, and says these babies are not his. Now is that motive for murder? To cover up mommy`s sex and cheating?
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say from 1996 to 2006, she gave birth to seven babies and then suffocated or smothered all but one.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now questions are swirling about how her then husband didn`t know. He`s reportedly now claiming he might not even by the bio dad after new allegations that Megan Huntsman was having an affair.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jim Kirkwood joining us, talk show host, KTKK.
Jim, thanks for being with us. You know, I was wondering, because I know the father had been away for a period of time when the mom gave birth to these seven infants that were now found all dead. Presumably strangled or suffocated.
Now the father is saying and his whole family is piling on that she`s a, quote, "known cheater," that these are not his babies. What do you know, Jim Kirkwood?
JIM KIRKWOOD, TALK SHOW HOST, KTKK (via phone): Well, that`s what he says. But the DNA tests are going to tell us for sure, Nancy, as you know, and that should be coming very shortly.
This is the most unbelievable horrific story. This sleepy little Pleasant Grove bedroom town. Mostly religious folks. They`re in shock. I know some of them, and they can`t believe this, Nancy.
GRACE: You know, to Aaron Hawker, next-door neighbor where the seven tiny bodies were discovered. You spoke with the husband. Did he believe these babies were his, Aaron?
AARON HAWKER, NEXT-DOOR NEIGHBOR: Well, when I spoke to him Sunday, I guess all of us were assuming that this had happened within the last eight years.
But then the police made some kind of a press release and said this happened between `94 or `96 and `06. And when I talked to Darren, he said, "These babies can`t be mine." He said, "They`ve got to be from the last eight years," he thought.
GRACE: So he is doing the math and saying the babies are not his.
To Dr. Michelle Dupree, medical examiner, forensic pathologist, how can you look at a body, the remains, and date them? How can you date the body?
DUPREE (via phone): Nancy, it`s going to depend, of course, on the condition of the body. At this point in time, they`re probably skeletonized or perhaps even mummified. We can look at the evidence around the body, other things like that, but we can put it into a range. It won`t be an exact date.
GRACE: To Michael Christian, what more do we know, Michael?
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN (via phone): Nancy, we don`t know what`s in this woman`s mind. But according to police, she`s been relatively truthful with them. When they took her in for questioning, she admitted that she had killed six of these babies, as you say, by suffocation or strangulation.
She told police in that same interview that her husband was the father of these children. So again, we won`t know for sure until the DNA tests come back, but she`s claiming her father fathered -- excuse me, her husband fathered these seven children.
GRACE: Well, you know, Michael Christian, every cheater always says they`re not cheating.
Renee Rockwell, Peter Odom, everybody is wondering how could you do this? Why would you do this? And she clearly covered it up. She was very coherent when police came and found the babies and spoke to her. It`s not going to be about insanity. It`s going to be about motive. And now we hear the dad say, "These are not my babies."
ROCKWELL: Nancy, is that to me?
GRACE: Yes.
ROCKWELL: I would wonder where he is legally in this -- in this entire match.
GRACE: You mean, is he implicated in the murders?
ROCKWELL: I`m just saying that...
GRACE: I can tell you right now no.
ROCKWELL: He can see that she`s pregnant and then there`s no baby, and then she`s pregnant again and no baby. The more interesting thing, I think she`s got a mental defense. I`m sorry to disagree.
GRACE: I`m sure you do.
ODOM: That`s correct.
ROCKWELL: The more interesting thing is whether he`s included in this.
GRACE: Oh my. Here it comes. Second verse, same as the first. What`s that, Odom? Yes, she`s crazy. OK. Is that what you got for me tonight?
ODOM: The legal term, Nancy, is insane, and this is absolutely headed -- absolutely headed for a mental defense.
GRACE: Well, it may be.
ODOM: And the fact that she tried to hide it doesn`t necessary negate that. Makes it harder. I grant you.
GRACE: I`m telling you this right now. Aaron Hawker, the next-door neighbor with us is telling us what the father said. He says these are not his children. The whole family said that she -- they suspected she had been cheating throughout the years. Is that the motive to murder one child after the next after the next after the next, never letting on your pregnant so your husband won`t find out?
When we come back, could be your worst nightmare. Trapped on a plane 30,000 feet when a passenger erupts violently, and it`s all caught on tape.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What would you do if you were on this flight?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re my savior!
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GRACE: Many people`s worst nightmare, to be trapped on a plane at 30,000 feet when another panel erupts violently, but this time it`s all caught on tape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(SCREAMING)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A woman freaking out on a flight.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: God, you`re my savior! God, you`re my savior! God, you`re my savior!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As passengers try to calm her down, she seemingly becomes more agitated.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED) God, you`re my savior. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. You`re my savior.
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GRACE: OK. Ow, that hurts. Michael Bord, WOAI, what happened?
MICHAEL BORD, WOAI (via phone): Yes, Nancy, luckily this was not some sort of transatlantic flight. This was a flight from Miami to Tampa, Florida, maybe an hour flight.
This woman when she got on the plane, she told people -- she was walking up and down the aisle telling people that her mother had recently passed away, then when she sat down in her seat and plane started moving, well, you heard what she started saying.
And what`s really bizarre about this, Nancy is, if you watch the video, you see her thumbing through a magazine and tapping on her cell phone. What`s she doing, Nancy, playing Angry Birds while she`s yelling this?
GRACE: Well, Michael, I understand that you`re saying it`s not a transatlantic flight, but 30,000 feet is 30,000 feet. That plane is going to crash, regardless of whether it`s an eight-hour flight or a one-hour flight.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Many people`s worst nightmare, to be trapped on a plane at 30,000 feet when another passenger erupts violently. But this time, it`s all caught on tape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The woman on a flight to Tampa who had a mid-air meltdown, screaming "God, you`re my savior," while thrashing in her seat.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re my savior!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What would you do if you were on this flight?
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GRACE: OK, well, let me just tell you, she was not praying the whole time. Clark Goldband, what do we know?
GOLDBAND: Well, Nancy, the man in the center seat appears to be trying to calm her down and puts his arm on her -- puts his hand on her arm, apologies. But here`s the thing. Once he starts trying to calm her down, she stops yelling, "God is my savior" and says, "Don`t F-ing touch me." She goes back into "God is my savior," but then a beat or two later apologizes for cursing to God before, again, going back into "God is my savior."
GRACE: So it`s "God is my savior. God is my savior. Don`t F-ing touch me."
GOLDBAND: Yes.
GRACE: "Sorry, Lord. God is my savior."
GOLDBAND: Yes.
GRACE: Screaming, and is it true, Clark Goldband, that the flight attendants actually told the other passengers they were so afraid she was going to try to run for the door and try to open the hatch that they were told tackle her, stop her, if she gets up out of her seat?
GOLDBAND: Yes, the passenger who shot this says on his little camera, "The flight attendants told us that if she tries to go for a door, we are to stop her." And I just want to point out, Nancy, there`s not one, but two other passengers sitting next to this woman. She had a window seat.
GRACE: Well, also there are statements later the JetBlue flight attendant who grabs beer and flies out of an emergency chute after a fight with a passenger. Gerard Depardieu thrown off the plane after he urinates. Naomi Campbell gets hostile, starts a flight. A pilot shows up drunk. That was pilot Thomas Cloyd. Then a co-pilot sent to prison after showing up drunk. We had another CEO of a company who actually defecated on the dinner cart. You know what? Is she in jail, Michael Bord?
BORD: Not that we know of. She was loud and obnoxious, but she didn`t do anything technically illegal. What`s interesting with this, Nancy, is that the guy who was shooting the video, he`s former military. So thank goodness somebody was there that could have handled something if something went down.
GRACE: Well, all I can say is, to me, after September 11, this should be illegal.
Let`s stop and remember American hero Army Private First Class Kevin Thompson, just 22, Reno. Bronze Star, Purple Heart, loved Ozzy Osbourne. Mother Debby, Kevin Thompson, American hero.
And congratulations tonight to newlyweds Anderson and Angela, just back from their Rome honeymoon.
Drew up next, with more on the seven infants. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8 p.m. sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.
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