Return to Transcripts main page
Nancy Grace
Dad Shoots Mom After Eating Marijuana?; Kidnapper Mother Caught on Tape
Aired April 16, 2014 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, upscale Denver. Daddy guns down Mommy after he downs a marijuana cookie and goes out of his mind, Mommy shot dead in front of her three children after she desperately pleads with 911 to save her life. This as the first pot vending machine hits the market.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I need an ambulance. Code 10. Body down. We`re going to need homicide.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say Kristine Kirk initially called 911 to report that her husband was hallucinating.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) her husband has been smoking marijuana.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Talking about the end of the world and saying he wanted her to shoot him. She also believed he was under the influence of marijuana.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All we have is the screaming in the background.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And after pop sensation Britney Spears makes headlines driving with her toddlers in her lap, both no seatbelts, it happens again. Live to Michigan tonight. Caught on tape, a female kidnapper pulls the same stunt.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A mom kidnaps her daughter and leads cops on a dangerous high-speed chase with her 5-year-old in her lap. And it`s all caught on tape.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can see one tire blow and come off its rim. Then the video shows Coy trying to run away with her daughter, fighting police while they try to arrest her.
GRACE: And tonight, QVC queen and sales superstar Lisa Robertson living a life of fear. But why?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s seen by many as the face of QVC.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Twenty-four hours of fashion, a special offer...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Reports say the former Miss Tennessee fearful for her safety, multiple men accused of stalking her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Like, get it off of me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That video from QVC.
And tonight to Gaston (ph), South Carolina. A 7-year-old little girl, absolutely beautiful, fatally shot in the chest at a birthday party, shot with a loaded rifle belonging to another mother`s boyfriend. Tonight, no charges?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I dropped everything, and all I heard was Juliet (ph), Juliet, Juliet!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tragedy strikes at a birthday party, 7-year-old Juliet Lynch is dead after she`s accidentally shot by a 5-year-old boy!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why would there be a gun at a kid`s birthday party?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And a Texas mother traumatized after she learns a creepy burglar in her home staring at her baby in the cradle. Tonight, the manhunt. He`s caught on tape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As the family of three sleeps, an intruder sneaks around, hovering over...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The sleeping child, creepy images. At one point, the two make eye contact, and then the little boy goes back to sleep.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening, I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight, live, upscale Denver. Daddy guns down Mommy after Daddy downs a marijuana cookie and goes out of his mind, Mommy shot dead in front of her three children after Mommy desperately pleading with 911 to save her life. This as the first pot vending machine hits the market. Incredible!
Pat Lalama, correspondent, Investigation Discovery, before I get to the pot vending machine, this mom shot dead in front of her three children. Now, apparently, the father eats a marijuana cookie or brownie. What happened?
PAT LALAMA, INVESTIGATION DISCOVERY: Well, first let me say this is a shock to everyone who knows him. They were all (INAUDIBLE) one of the children`s soccer games on Saturday. Monday night, she`s on a 13-minute phone call with 911! She says, My husband seems to be hallucinating. He`s talking about the end of the world. He wants me to take a gun and shoot him. And you know the rest -- right in front of three school-age boys, Nancy. Just absolutely unbelievable!
GRACE: The children devastated. Can you even imagine? Suddenly, your father goes out of his gourd and starts talking crazy. The mom, hysterical, calls 911. It gets worse and worse and worse. She`s on the phone with 911 almost 15 minutes, begging. The children see their mother gunned down in front of their eyes.
Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) her husband has been smoking marijuana. Advise (ph) they do keep a handgun in the house, but it`s not in anybody`s possession. Reported a domestic violence in progress.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need an ambulance. Code 10 for party down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re going to need homicide.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The wife on an open line (INAUDIBLE) a male had a gun. All we have is the screaming in the background.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: So you know what? I`m going to go straight out to our experts. Joining me, Brad Lamm, addiction specialist and founder of Breathe Life Healing Centers.
BRAD LAMM, ADDICTION SPECIALIST: Hey, Nancy.
GRACE: Also with me, Norm Kent, president of NORML, National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws. You know, Norm Kent, you and I have gone around and around about this, and you keep telling me that marijuana, if anything, makes you mellow and laid back. So why does this guy go on a rampage and murder his wife? They had no marital problems. They weren`t talking about divorce. Nobody`s having an affair. He eats a marijuana cookie or brownie, and he goes berserk and guns her down, Norm Kent.
NORM KENT, NORML: Well, I`ll give you this, Nancy. Number one, marijuana is not -- and it`s scientifically proven -- a hallucinogen. But I will tell you that marijuana-infused chocolates or marijuana-infused food can be a little bit stronger than people reasonably suspect. However, I think whatever made this madman kill his wife...
GRACE: He was not a madman...
KENT: ... was not marijuana.
LAMM: And Nancy -- Nancy...
GRACE: No! That`s not true! That`s not true! Hold on, Brad. I`m going to come straight to you.
Pat Lalama, before he ingested -- it says marijuana cookie. Maybe it was a marijuana brownie. But before he ingested that, everything was fine. Like you had pointed out, they were at a soccer game about 72 hours before that -- very loving, responsible, held down a job, three boy, boys in school, no problems. He eats a marijuana brownie and goes berserk.
LALAMA: Nancy, so many cases we use the term it was just the perfect family, but it really feels that it`s not the cliche in this case. Friends say this was as stable as you can get, that this father was even a religious man, very devoted to his children. So madman -- I beg to differ!
GRACE: OK, back to Lamm and Kent. What were you saying, Brad?
LAMM: Nancy -- Nancy, Norm says that there`s really no signs that shows that pot -- THC is the active ingredient in pot -- will cause a person to go crazy. The truth is this, that it really does -- the science is behind us -- that it does cause delusions and paranoia in people that it triggers in this way.
So if you don`t have a problem with pot, then this isn`t -- it`s not going to affect you this way. But THC is a very powerful drug. And for many people, it will have a very negative impact in their life. And it`s another heart-breaking tragedy about the disease of addiction, Norm Kent.
GRACE: Kent?
LAMM: But Brad, 30 million Americans use pot and don`t grab a gun and shoot their wife.
LAMM: You know what, Norm? And that`s...
(CROSSTALK)
LAMM: And that`s awesome. That`s an awesome story, and you know, for a person who`s not addicted, a glass of wine with dinner or some brandy on the weekend is an awesome part of their life. But for a person who`s addicted, it`s a problem. So you`re messaging that it`s no big deal does a lot of families a disservice, and it takes them to the vending machine, it takes them to the pot store, and it tells their kids that it`s not a big deal, and it is. Addiction is a progressive, often fatal disease, Norm.
KENT: But the message...
GRACE: OK, Norm...
KENT: ... of Brad Lamm, an addictionologist, is that the irresponsible minority should govern...
LAMM: It`s not about responsibility, Norm.
KENT: ... the responsible and trusting majority.
LAMM: See, that`s where you get it so wrong. It`s not about using it responsibly. If you`re a person prone to addiction and you start using pot, you will get sick. And then we see what happens.
GRACE: OK, guys, hold on one moment. Norm Kent joining me, who wants marijuana legalized across the country, Brad Lamm, addiction specialist, founder of Breathe Life Healing Centers.
Norm, I mean, just from strictly a legal point of view, you`re way, way out of -- you`re way out in the weeds. You`re off the course because what you`re saying is, Hey, it`s just one mom. You know, 30 million people do it, which I`m not sure about that, but you`re saying 30 million people do it. And this is just one mother. It`s just three kids that saw her head blow up like a pumpkin in front of them. So hey, 1 out of 30 million, no problem. Is that really what you`re saying?
KENT: Nancy, what I`m saying is we don`t want to see 30 million people going to jail because they consume marijuana...
GRACE: That`s not what I said!
KENT: ... that society can do a better job. Sure, it is.
GRACE: That`s not what I said! This guy ate a marijuana cookie, according to police, he starts hallucinating and goes berserk.
Pat Lalama, help me out. Tell me what happened.
LALAMA: Well, OK, this man is -- she`s on the phone. He`s out of his mind. This is a man who has no known history of being out of his mind, no criminal record, one DUI a long time ago, but nothing!
And Nancy, let me point out to you that now that the floodgates have opened in Colorado, they`re looking at another case of a student, whom I believe just a few months ago did pot and jumped to his death. It was a suicide right after ingesting marijuana. This is a floodgate of potential problems and criminality here!
GRACE: Yes, I read about that. He was a young student.
OK, take a listen to what the shooter -- this is the father, the husband that guns down his wife while he`s hallucinating after pot. This is what the brother had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, this is -- it`s overwhelming. My heart goes out to those three boys and Kris`s family.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was he struggling with any mental health issues?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not that I know of. I know that that wasn`t Richard. Let`s just say that. I hope -- I hope there`s some answers that come out about this. This is a really terrible thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK. And this, at the time we learn the first marijuana vending machine is out there? What is that, Michael Christian?
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): (INAUDIBLE) and yes, it will be dispensing marijuana.
GRACE: OK, how does that work, Pat Lalama?
LALAMA: I wish I knew. The way that I think that it works is that you can just simply use it like you can use any kind of machine to get, you know, a can of Coke. The problem that they`re having, though, right now, Nancy, is the regulation, the amount that they`re putting in the cookies and the edibles...
GRACE: But how does the machine figure out if you`re old enough to get marijuana? How does the machine do that? Michael Christian, how does it work?
CHRISTIAN: As Pat says, they`re trying to work that out. You know, you don`t see beer, for example, or liquor being sold in these kind of machines, so how are they going to do it with marijuana?
GRACE: Well, wait a minute, guys.
CHRISTIAN: They`re still trying to work that out.
GRACE: Isn`t it something like this, a driver`s license? Doesn`t it match you up with your driver`s license? It`s got the technology to look at your license and then match it up to your face.
So OK, Brad Lamm, you know what? You were telling me just the other night off camera about a young Ivy Leaguer who is now in one of your centers.
LAMM: Yes.
GRACE: He`s lost everything. I mean, he fights like H-E-double-L to get into this nice Ivy League school. His parents sacrifice everything. And he gets addicted to pot. Now it`s all down the tubes. Now he can get it at a vending machine?
LAMM: And it`s so scary for families because they have -- this family has two kids. One smokes it with impunity and one smokes it and gets paranoid and delusional and sick and drops out and loses everything. So for folks that really wonder, Why is my kid getting affected in a negative way with pot, listen to what you hear and look at the warning signs and wake up. That`s the pot problem.
GRACE: So Pat Lalama, what about the dad that guns down Mom? Where is he? Is he behind bars? Is he on bail? Who has the three little boys? I mean, Mom is shot dead in front of the children!
LAMM: Family have the children. He`s being held -- he was due in court today.
Can I just throw in one quick thing, Nancy? Wasn`t there a report out in just the last couple of days of definitive proof that pot causes brain damage? I just wanted to throw that in there.
As for the father, he was due in court today, and by the way, Nancy, has apparently confessed to police that he did, in fact, kill his wife.
GRACE: You know, what a mind-blowing scenario. This guy, a loving father, innocently thinks it`s not going to hurt him, eats a marijuana cookie, starts hallucinating, goes and gets the gun out of a locked cabinet, hallucinating, guns down his wife of many years, the mother of their three children, completely out of his mind. Now he`s sitting in jail, Mommy`s dead, and the three children have neither a mother nor a father.
Everybody, when we get back, remember when pop sensation Britney Spears made headlines driving with her toddlers in her lap, no seatbelts? Well, it happens again. Tonight, we go live to Michigan. Caught on tape, a female kidnapper pulls the same stunt.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She literally put not just herself and that child in danger but those officers that were chasing and the other pedestrians that were on the roadway.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And then later, a Texas mother traumatized after she learns a creepy burglar in her home staring at her baby in the cradle! Tonight, he is caught on tape. Manhunt!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: After pop sensation Britney Spears makes headlines driving with her toddlers in her lap, both without seatbelts, it happens again. This time, live to Michigan. Tonight, caught on tape, a female kidnapper pulls the same stunt.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cops caught up with the mom and pulled her over, but moments later, she speeds away. While leading police on a chase hitting speeds of 75 miles an hour, the mom unbuckles her daughter from the passenger seat and puts her on her lap.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK, let`s see that dashcam video. That`s what I want to see. Joining me right now, news director of WJRW -- take a look, now. Watch what`s happening -- James Gemmell with us. James, this mom -- when you think mom kidnapper, this mom lost custody of her child for a reason. She`s got multiple convictions, including cocaine. And when this car -- oh, there she goes! When this -- hold on. Hold on, James.
JAMES GEMMELL, NEWSTALK WJRW (via telephone): OK.
GRACE: There you see when this car is pulled over, she`s got the baby in her arms. There`s cocaine all over the inside of the car. She was having visitation, right, James? How did this happen? How did she get the baby and lead cops on a wild chase?
GEMMELL: Well, Nancy, basically, they`re saying that she kidnapped her daughter, allegedly, during the supervised visit Sunday afternoon in Warsaw. Apparently, the grandmother had the court-appointed supervision that day. And they say that they showed up around noon at the house. And at 5:30, Grandma reported that the mother and the child were missing, said they might be up in White Pigeon (ph), Michigan, which is about an hour away in St. Joe County.
GRACE: Everybody, you`re seeing the video of a wild police chase mommy leads cops on. She`s got the baby. You can barely make it out in some of the video. She grabs the baby out of the passenger side and drives with the baby. She`s apparently high on coke. There`s coke in the car, cocaine. Look at this. Look at this -- and takes off, in hot pursuit, cops behind her.
OK, James Gemmell with me from WJRW. James, this is incredible. She holds onto the baby, kicking at the cops, running, falls to the grass. She`s still got the baby in her arms. Why does she lose custody? Was it because of all of her convictions?
GEMMELL: Well, yes. I mean, obviously, she`s quite out of control here, seven felony charges in Michigan, Nancy, including child abuse, resisting arrest, cocaine possession, operating under the influence of drugs, fleeing and eluding, obstruction of justice, plus a misdemeanor rap of operating while intoxicated. If that`s not enough, she allegedly has an extensive history in Indiana with run-ins with law enforcement.
GRACE: Joining me right now, special guest from Lansing Charter Township, Detective Sergeant Todd Petersen with the Michigan State Police. Detective Petersen, you know, you guys clearly saved a life. If this mom had kept going -- and there`s no doubt in my mind she had to be high on something -- that child would have ended up dead in some type of a fiery crash. You guys don`t get thanked enough.
Tell us what happened, Detective.
DET. SGT. TODD PETERSEN, MICHIGAN STATE POLICE (via telephone): Well, the day, luckily, there was a trooper that was on duty that was notified by our dispatch center that Indiana authorities had pinged the phone of the mother, who had thought to have been -- left the state with her child.
Luckily, he was right in the area, noticed the vehicle, made a traffic stop on that car. And when he approached and made contact with her, he could see that the child was sitting in the front seat, just buckled as an adult would be. He started to talk to her and advised her that they were looking for her in Indiana and asked her to step out of the vehicle. And at that point, she told him that he wasn`t going to take her child and began to pull away, and that`s when the pursuit started.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Caught on tape, Mommy leads police on a wild chase for miles with her 5-year-old daughter in her lap. When the car finally came to a stop, she runs out with daughter clutched to her chest.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Fighting police while they try to arrest her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK. What I don`t understand, Stacey Newman, producer on the story, is if she doesn`t have custody and she has supervised visits only, Stacey, how does she get the baby?
STACEY NEWMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, apparently, the grandmother was maybe in another room. She was away from them for just a couple minutes, and that is all it took for this woman to jump in the grandmother`s Buick and take off with this little girl.
GRACE: So the grandmother has custody of the baby. All right, Mom comes for a visit. It`s my understanding Grandma just goes to the restroom. She comes out, the baby`s gone, Mommy`s gone, and the grandma`s car is gone. Little does she know, this woman, Mommy, she doesn`t have custody for a reason. She`s got a rap sheet as long as the interstate, including for cocaine.
With me, Detective Sergeant Todd Petersen. Detective, what did you guys find inside Coy`s car?
PETERSEN: Once the troopers searched the vehicle after the arrest, they did find some white powdery substance we believe to be cocaine. Obviously, it`s been sent away to a lab to be tested, but that`s our belief at this time.
GRACE: What was she saying when she was fighting you guys?
PETERSEN: You can see in the video there, it looks like she`s screaming. And she was literally screaming to some passerbys (sic), some cars that had stopped because of the pursuit and some neighbors that were outside, and screaming for them to come and help because they were stealing her child. I mean, it`s obvious...
GRACE: Mr. Petersen, do you realize -- I don`t know if you`ve had a moment to reflect on this -- how easily she could have gone off the rails and just crashed that car into that telephone pole or some other erratic behavior? I mean, she`s already running from the cops at a high speed. She`s taken her child out of the seatbelt. She`s on the run. There`s cocaine in the car.
You guys saved this child`s life, and I pray tonight that that child, as it grows up, does not have a memory of this, that this memory is slowly over time blurred away. To you, thank you on behalf of that child, Detective.
Everybody, when we come back, QVC queen and sales superstar Lisa Robertson living a life of fear. But why?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lisa Robertson mingles with celebrities while selling high fashion and makeup. But tonight, reports emerge Robertson has been scared for her safety for years.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And then later, a Texas mother traumatized after she learns a creepy burglar in her home staring at her baby in the cradle! Tonight, manhunt. This guy is caught on tape.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Okay. This woman is amazing. QVC queen, the sales superstar, Lisa Robertson, is living a life of fear. But why?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Lisa Robertson mingles with celebrities while selling high fashion and makeup to Americans across the country.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s definitely the evening to buy yourself something beautiful.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But reports now surfacing that Robertson has allegedly been dealing with stalkers. Some men falsely believing they were in a relationship with the host.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Falsely believing they were in a relationship. Everybody, you`re seeing video from QVC. She got four stalkers that follow her incessantly. When she travels out of state, they follow her. One wrote that he was so close to her after he tracked her down at a movie theater, that he could smell the popcorn she was eating, okay? Take a look at this gorgeous beauty queen, Lisa Robertson, turned well respected and superstar host at QVC. Four stalkers. Peter Ferreira, Brandon Song, Phillip Martin Young. There`s also the fourth one, Andrew Niles Groten. Correct me if I`m wrong, but Rich Zeoli, host of the Rich Zeoli show, WPHT, she sells ladies makeup and skin care, right?
ZEOLI: Nancy, and she has not felt safe in a long time. I mean, she has not left her house. She`s terrified. She can`t leave her house because of these nut jobs who are stalking her, four stalkers in 20 years. And she has this state-of-the-art alarm system. She doesn`t feel safe in public. This is the dark side of fame, to say the least.
GRACE: Everybody, you are seeing QVC star Lisa Robertson living in fear. Joining me right now, special guest Bob Bowersox, former QVC host. Bob, you`ve got so many fans all over the world, and I think people watch QVC to the point that they think that they know you. You`re in their home so much. What do you make of this?
BOWERSOX: Just -- it`s the nature of the business. You`re in 100 million homes, and you`re in the corner all the time in that box. It`s like they feel like you`re family with them.
GRACE: Hold on just a second, Bob. You`re kind of cutting out on me. Let me know when you get the satellite fixed, Justin. Clark, what do we know?
GOLDBAND: Nancy, QVC has really transformed into a massive empire. They sell high-quality products. They`ve shipped over 1 billion packages now, and they`ve sold up to $80 million in just 24 hours, Nancy. Everything from vacuums to mattresses to all kinds of quality products. People turn to QVC. And something else important to point out, Nancy, this is on 24 hours a day. Now, according to reports, Lisa Robertson is primarily on in the evening. And apparently that`s when these men, who are accused and convicted of stalking and harassment, were watching her, during the nighttime.
GRACE: Everybody, you`re seeing video from QVC. Clark, let me get this straight. Doesn`t she sell -- I mean, she`s really worked her way up the ranks, and she is a star.
GOLDBAND: Yes she`s got her own program on there, yes.
GRACE: Doesn`t she sell, like, skin care and jewelry?
GOLDBAND: Yes, she does.
GRACE: What`s her specialty?
GOLDBAND: She sells skin care. She sells jewelry. She sells high- profile stuff. But Nancy, she also travels. She goes down to the red carpets for things like fashion week in New York City. She goes down to Florida, she meets her fans, she does live events, and she has a huge set. This is a very large following for Lisa Robertson. However, according to this report in the Daily Mail, for some reason people think they have an infatuation and they think that she`s talking to them.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Patrick McDonough, defense attorney, Atlanta. Midwin Charles, defense attorney, New York. First to you, Midwin Charles. This guy got probation and was told to stay away. You know, stalkers don`t stay away. This guy actually thinks QVC has masterminded this stay-away order, that they`re standing between him and his true love. I mean, come on. Midwin, when they got to him, he had strapped to him two boxes full of engagement rings and wedding bands. Strapped to his chest like he was going to propose to her. She`s going to say yes. And they`ll jerk a preacher over and get married right on the spot. Engagement ring, wedding band, strapped to his chest.
CHARLES: It does sound really, really scary. And you have to ask yourself whether there`s mental illness behind these actions. But if he is arrested for stalking, they are going to have to prove it, each single time, that he actually violated the law and stalked her.
GRACE: What I don`t get is why he`s not in jail, Patrick.
MCDONOUGH: Well, I don`t think there`s any question these facts are clear, he has a mental health issue. I mean, it`s not normal to look at TV and think hey, that`s my girlfriend.
GRACE: Well, then they need to put him in a hospital.
MCDONOUGH: Clearly he needs some mental health treatment.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: With regard to your arguments, that would mean every stalker is legally insane. And one of the reasons they do it in secret, they stalk, is because they know what they`re doing is wrong. And by the definition -- okay, what if you turn around, you`re sitting there minding your own business watching "Frozen" or whatever and you turn around and there`s this creep smelling your popcorn. Caryn Stark, I don`t agree with the defense lawyers saying he`s crazy. That would mean every stalker is crazy.
STARK: And we`re talking about crazy in terms of the law. So is there a mental problem? Absolutely. And let me tell you that stalkers are people who don`t feel comfortable in intimate relationships, can`t get close, don`t feel good about themselves. But do they know the difference between right and wrong? Of course they do.
GRACE: Caryn, Caryn, I always disagree with you.
STARK: Yes, Nancy.
GRACE: But half of America feels bad about themselves. Everybody thinks there`s something wrong with them. Whatever it may be. I`m getting old. I`m too fat. I`m too thin. I can`t this. I can`t that. Blah, blah, blah. It goes on forever. But that doesn`t equal insanity. Guys, we`re talking about the queen of QVC. Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)c
LISA ROBERTSON: For 131 and change and six payments of easy pay. Stay tuned. Rick Domeier (ph) is standing by. Coming up in 6 1/2 minutes. Mmm. We`ll be right back with Judith Ripka (ph).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Okay, guys. If you`re seeing her right now on the screen, that`s -- keep rolling that, please, Charles. Because this is the same video that these guys believe -- in this video, they believe she`s sending them secret messages about their relationship. Is that correct, Rich Zeoli from WPHT? They think she`s sending them messages?
ZEOLI: That`s exactly correct, Nancy. And you know, one of the stalkers, one of the four, it was actually his nephew that was so concerned about his stalking that actually called QVC security about this. Oh, yes, they heard messages from her, hidden messages. One of the stalkers actually believed they were engaged if you can believe that, and flew across country to meet her. One of the other stalkers went through another QVC host to arrange a meeting with Lisa. Absolutely nuts.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Patrick McDonough, Midwin Charles, there goes your insanity defense right there, because these guys are thinking through very carefully how to meet her, how to follow her. They are doing it secretively so they clearly know what they`re doing is wrong, Midwin. And that`s the whole definition. Are you Midwin? You`re not Midwin. Wait a minute. I mean, the whole definition of insanity is the old McNaughton rule, do you know right from wrong at the time of the incident, Midwin?
MCDONOUGH: Look -- I`m sorry.
CHARLES: That`s okay. That`s okay. You`re right, Nancy, about the definition of insanity, but again, I really think that anyone who looks at a TV screen and thinks that a woman is having a relationship with him through the screen has mental illness. Now, an insanity defense has to do with self-defense when you go to trial. So I think this is a little bit different here.
GRACE: Okay. What about it, Patrick?
MCDONOUGH: There`s no question, we`re not talking about whether these people are insane or not. No, no, I said mental health issues. And if you listen to what you`re talking about, they`re talking to me through the TV, so I`m going to go drive down there and smell the popcorn. That`s not somebody who`s got a mental issue?
GRACE: They think she`s sending secret messages.
(CROSSTALK)
MCDONOUGH: Are you giving me a break?
GRACE: You probably may not remember this, but I remember as a little girl Carol Burnett would send secret messages to her family. She`d do this. A lot of people on air sent secret messages by movements or gesticulations on air.
(CROSSTALK)
MCONOUGH: -- family member, they know it, not if you`re some stranger and you are halfway across the country. Oh, that must mean she`s talking to me.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: You`re making a case, but I ain`t buying it because they`re sneaking around, which shows they know what they`re doing is wrong.
Everybody, when we come back, to Gaston, South Carolina. A 7-year-old little girl, gorgeous, fatally shot dead at a birthday party with a loaded gun belonging to another mom`s boyfriend. As of right now, no charges?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When the little boy opened the trunk and reached in and accidentally set off the real gun trying to get his play gun.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And then later, a Texas mother traumatized after she learns a creepy burglar in her home staring at her baby in the cradle. Tonight, he`s caught on tape.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: And now, everyone, to Gaston, South Carolina, a 7-year-old little girl fatally shot. Shot dead in the chest at a birthday party with a loaded rifle belonging to the other mother`s boyfriend. Tonight, no charges?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just want justice done.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 7-year-old Juliet Lynch is dead after she`s accidentally shot by a 5-year-old boy at a birthday party.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When the little boy opened the trunk and reached in and accidentally set off the real gun.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And when I say no charges, I`m not talking about the 7-year- old little boy. He was reaching for a toy gun. I`m talking about the man who leaves a loaded gun around at a child`s birthday party. Yes, him. Kevin Cohen, host of "Mornings with Kev," on the Point Radio 1470, what happened?
COHEN: (inaudible) went to a birthday party, and a little 5-year-old girl goes out to get his little toy gun. While he`s in there, sees another gun, the 5-year-old can`t differentiate, pulls the trigger, fires through the side and back of the car. Hits two children. Injures one and kills another one. And yes, you`re right, how can this guy who owns this gun --
GRACE: I don`t understand it.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: With me, Sheriff James Metts, Lexington County Sheriff`s Department, the elected sheriff, sheriff, thank you so much for being with us.
SHERIFF JAMES METTS: Yes, thank you for having me.
GRACE: I just threw my twins` joint birthday party, and I cannot even imagine a loaded gun being in the vicinity? What happened?
METTS: Well, the individual that went to the party with his girlfriend and 5-year-old son, her son, had a loaded F.E.G. Hungrymade (ph) 7.62 millimeter rifle in the trunk of the vehicle, and it was loaded. And the mother didn`t know it was in there. And when the little boy wanted his gun, the children were playing, of course, at a birthday party, you can imagine there would be playing. And she went and opened the trunk, and the little boy went to get his gun out, and hit the trigger accidentally on the real gun. And it went through the window -- I mean the driver`s side of the car, the fender well, and the bullet fragmented and hit the 7-year-old girl in the chest, killing her and another 5-year-old boy in the forearm. That`s what happened.
GRACE: Sheriff, it`s just overwhelming that someone would have a loaded gun at a child`s birthday party. Clark, what do you know?
GOLDBAND: Well, Nancy, I can tell you the ATF is now also investigating. Why, we asked and we found out. It`s because they say that this is a person who is a convicted felon who was in possession of this gun. Therefore, that makes it a federal crime. And Nancy, if there are charges, right now no charges are filed, someone could be going to jail for a longer time because this will be charged federally.
GRACE: Well, I certainly hope so, clark.
Everyone, our prayers with the family of little 7-year-old Juliet Lynch.
And to Lincoln, Nebraska. A young mom goes hysterical. She emerges from the shower to find her 3-year-old toddler boy gone, discovered inside an arcade claw game.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Curiosity in this vending machine at Madsen`s bowling and billiards.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s probably like a 3-year-old child inside the machine, just playing with the stuffed animals, just throwing them around.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She believes he crawled in through the prize door which has a safety stop, then scaled into the pit. Employees called the vendor with the keys to open the machine, then called police when they couldn`t find the boy`s mom. Just across the street, a mother had also called police around 5:30. She had returned from going to the bathroom to find her son missing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everything was fine, and he got out fine.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The toddler even got to keep one of his new stuffed friends, a reminder of his unbelievable adventure.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Miracles do happen. This child safe. And after I investigated, I found out this was not the first time children have gotten up in those claw games and gotten in with the toys.
Everybody, when we come back, a Texas mother traumatized after she learns a creepy burglar in her home staring at her baby in the cradle. And tonight, he`s caught on tape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As the family of three sleeps, an intruder sneaks around. Hovering over what`s most important. He shines the flashlight throughout the room and even on the sleeping child.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: A Texas mother beside herself after learning a creepy burglar in her home staring at her baby in the cradle. Tonight, manhunt for the guy caught on tape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just after 5:00 a.m. as the family of three sleeps, an intruder sneaks around, hovering over what`s most important.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Saw him walking back and forth. In my baby`s room.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He shines the flashlight throughout the room and on the sleeping child.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He makes a statement, I`m here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Okay. That is getting me so upset. Nik Rajkovic, KTRH. To imagine this. Where were mommy and daddy, Nik?
RAJKOVIC: Nancy, good evening to you. Mom and dad sleeping in the master bedroom downstairs. The baby upstairs. You can see looking at that video how scary is that, this crook in the baby`s room staring at the baby.
GRACE: They`re downstairs asleep while this guy is upstairs. Joining me now, Harris County Texas Lieutenant, Jeff Stauber. Lieutenant, thank you for being with us. I`m completely flummoxed watching this. Mom and dad are downstairs asleep, Lieutenant?
LT. JEFF STAUBER, HARRIS COUNTY, TX: Yes, exactly.
GRACE: What else do we know, Lieutenant?
STAUBER: Well, this particular case, you know, we thought when we first started watching the video that this was just going to be a burglary in a house with no one home, just walking around. Then we come to find out that after viewing the video that the occupants were all still in the house, and what was so frightening, because most law enforcement officers that looked at this that have family, we were all just absolutely shocked at what could have actually happened. When he walked into that baby`s room -- and actually it may be hard to see with the video that you all have, the baby actually gets up and kind of looks around a little bit and lays back down in the bed. And just the fact that that burglar was in that house with everybody still there and nobody was aroused when he eventually left. That was what really heightened our sense of we need to get this guy in custody.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: The mother traumatized after finding out this creepy burglar upstairs looking at her baby while she and the father, the husband, are asleep in bed downstairs. Caryn Stark, this adds a whole new level to creepy. They are in the home. What`s going through the guy`s mind, Caryn?
STARK: This guy doesn`t believe that he`ll ever get caught. He feels like he`s invincible, Nance. He`s above the law. He has power. This gives him power and control, and that`s what this is all about for him.
GRACE: So Lieutenant Stauber, did he actually take anything?
STAUBER: Yes, when he left, he took some items. A laptop, a wallet. And, you know, some other smaller items. What is so amazing is that nobody heard anything, and as you can see in the video, he just walks throughout this house like almost like he`s at his own home. I mean, he was just --
GRACE: I wonder, Lieutenant, if he`s ever been in that house before. He certainly seems to know his way around. He`s wearing a new baseball cap with San Antonio Spurs logo. Tattoo behind right ear. Possibly Asian characters.
Everybody, let`s stop and remember American hero, Army Sergeant Ryan Adams, just 26. Rhinelander, Wisconsin. National Defense Service Medal. Loved the outdoors. Volunteering for cancer patients support program. Parents, Peter and Julaine (ph). Sister, Amanda. Ryan Adams. American hero.
Drew up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.
END
