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Nancy Grace
Murder Mom`s Husband Witness in Trial; Video Raises Doubt on Amanda Knox Alibi
Aired May 06, 2014 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Tampa suburbs. Police race to a million-dollar mansion, a little girl at her bedroom computer doing homework, dead, her little brother in the garage, buckled into the minivan, dead. Cops hone in on the shooter. It`s Mommy, found lounging by a luxury pool in the back yard wearing a bloody housecoat, Mommy calmly explaining to police she shoots her children dead in the mouth because they talked back to her.
Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, state`s witness number one.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PARKER SCHENECKER, HUSBAND: We have two beautiful children.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The gun is now ready to fire by applying pressure to the trigger.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Beau is so cold and hard. I wish I could put him in my bed. That`s where he slept happily. Parker, I`m sorry, comma, so sorry. He didn`t teach the kids to be compassionate. Neither were you, exclamation. I just needed a little chat."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, first she`s guilty, then she`s not guilty, she`s guilty again, now it`s on appeal. Seattle co-ed nicknamed "Foxy Knoxy," Amanda Knox, swore for months she`s innocent on claims she and her Italian boyfriend murdered Knox`s 21-year-old roommate, Meredith Kercher, stabbing her dead.
She had an alibi, all right, and a lot of people fell for a pretty face. But tonight, in the last hours, closed-circuit TV dug up reveals Amanda Knox walking across a car park just yards from the murder scene at the time she claims she was snugged up across town with her boyfriend! Amanda Knox, you`re busted!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMANDA KNOX, CHARGED WITH MURDERING ROOMMATE: I`m not responsible for what happened. I didn`t do it. I wasn`t there.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Knox was a college student in Italy when she and her then boyfriend were found guilty of the 2007 death of Meredith Kercher.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, as she fights back against new theories and allegations...
KNOX: It`s only speculation that convicts us. It`s evidence that acquits us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live to the OC, one of the most popular "Real Housewives" now facing stunning claims of child neglect. Accusations of abuse fly. In the last hours, a judge throws up his hands with the "Real Housewives" drama and sends all the parties to mediation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bravo`s "Real Housewives of Orange County" star Tamara Barney (ph) has been accused of child neglect by her ex-husband.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You don`t give a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) about me, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Next stop, court-ordered mediation for the dueling parents.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, a morning cyclist gets the shock of a lifetime when he stumbles upon the body of 20-year-old University of California co- ed Sierra Marky Winkler (ph). At this hour, no leads. Tonight, we want justice.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sierra Marky Winkler, a 20-year-old sophomore at the University of California, found near a southern California beach. The young woman`s cause of death has not been determined. What killed Sierra Marky Winkler?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, have you ever just wanted to slap somebody? Because I do right now, a 27-year-old mother accused of sending a known pedophile photos of her own 2-year-old little girl with a sex toy. A 2- year-old little girl with a sex toy, a photo to a pedophile? How long can Mommy stay in jail? I don`t want to talk about should she go to jail. How long can she stay there?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A 27-year-old mother is accused of the worst kind of sexual abuse involving her own baby. Federal prosecutors claim that Camille Solomon Eaton (ph) posed her 2-year-old daughter with a sex toy, took photographs of the child and then sent them to a pedophile in Alabama.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Live, Tampa. Police race to a million-dollar mansion to find a little girl at her bedroom computer doing homework, dead, her little brother still buckled in the minivan, dead. Then they find Mommy out lounging by the luxury pool in the back yard, who calmly explains she guns down her two children, shooting them in the mouth, because they talked back.
In the last hours, we hear from Mommy herself, Mommy`s journal, in which she details her innermost thoughts and feelings about how she`s going to shoot her children dead. Let`s take a look at what Mommy said in her own writing.
This is what I observed in court. Mommy now has her hair pulled back, mousey brown, in a bun. She won`t look at any of the witnesses. She won`t turn around and look at her husband, Colonel Parker Schenecker. She sits there acting like she`s taking notes, as if nothing`s going on around her.
But let`s take a look into Mommy`s life. Let`s see the screens, Liz - - what we learned that Mommy writes in her journal. I did all my duties. Then I went to buy a gun. I was planning a Saturday massacre, but had to wait for a background investigation for three days.
Let`s keep it going.
Calyx called me pathetic. On Saturday, she called me an evil soul. The evil starts Thursday. Calyx, you know what? She gets it first. Don`t know whether I`ll turn on the light (to blind) or just react to have me in her bedroom. I`m nervous.
Next -- I offed Beau on the way to practice. I offed Beau on the way to practice. He saw the gun and told me to put it back in the purse. He had a healthy fight, then when we got home, a shot to his mouth (because) he became so mouthy, just like Calyx. Calyx drove me to drink. He (Beau) was yelling at me. The first shot hit the windshield. Second shot was the side of his head. Next shot to the mouth, his mouthy mouth.
Came home. Calyx is on the upstairs computer. Asked, What are you doing? Just (seeing) what you are doing, walked up without her reacting and shot her in the right temple. Then shot her in the mouth (her sassy little mouth). Really tore my soul to the core. Shot the two mouthy mouths in the mouth after shooting them in the head.
I`m just losing my mind. I`d like to die by Beau in our bed. That would be nice. Beau and I are going to heaven. Wish heaven for Calyx, too.
"Wish." Whoa!
Lucky you weren`t there -- talking to her husband. Probably would have offed you, too. Would have been a crying shame. I sensed divorce was inevitable, but I can`t live alone."
All right, straight out to Roger Schulman, Tampa radio reporter in court today, Roger with me in the courtroom all day yesterday. Roger, as I watched Colonel Parker Schenecker in the courtroom, I could tell he was about to burst into tears. Today, he was on the stand. What did you observe?
ROGER SCHULMAN, TAMPA RADIO: He was every inch an Army colonel, or general perhaps, which he probably could have been. He was crisp, direct. He did not look at his wife. She did not look at him. He gave answers very clearly and crisply, every inch a professional.
GRACE: You know, I noticed yesterday, he was sitting right beside the grandmother, and the grandmother was crying the whole time. And I noticed the district attorney never showed the Schenecker family sitting out in the courtroom the photos of the crime scene.
But I did notice, Matt Zarrell -- I did notice that when the crime scene photos were shown to the jury, they visibly gasped. They recoiled when they saw those crime scene photos.
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Yes, Nancy. The ones that were very graphic, the jurors were shocked to see it. But today, Nancy, they actually were stepping up and were more curious as they went through some of the firearm photos, and especially the pill bottles found in the bedroom and bathroom. There were a lot of them.
GRACE: Yes, there were over 500 pills found in the home.
Out to the lines. Frankie in Florida. Hi, Frankie. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. It`s more like a comment. I want to say hashtag premeditated. And what scares me the most is that I`m a mother. You`re a mother. And I would never, ever in a million years, if my children ever got mouthy, ever take measures like that into my own hands. They were privileged kids. So obviously, if they were privileged, you take the privileges away. You don`t take their life.
GRACE: You know, don`t go, Frankie. Hold Frankie in Florida. Frankie, what`s so disturbing is I`m not sure that she, Julie Schenecker, is going to take the stand. But in response to what we saw in her hand- written journal -- "I offed Beau today" -- I mean, she is clear in her mind what she`s doing. Also, she planned this ahead of time. Hold on, Frankie.
Unleash the lawyers. Joining me, Danny Cevallos out of New York, defense attorney. Also with me out of Atlanta, Darryl Cohen. First to you, Darryl. You can`t really claim insanity because you see her in the days ahead of time planning a, quote, "Saturday massacre." And then she had to wait an extra day to get the gun.
DARRYL COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Certainly, you can claim insanity, Nancy. The fact that it took so long doesn`t mean that she`s sane. It means that she didn`t know right from wrong. She is engrossed. You`ve got 500 pills. She`s been depressed. She was viciously -- it was a problem with her. She was attacked when she was a kid, child molestation. This woman...
GRACE: OK, so you`re going back...
COHEN: ... did not know right from wrong, period.
GRACE: ... to her claims that she was molested when she was 7, so she doesn`t know right from wrong.
Cevallos, you got anything better for me?
DANNY CEVALLOS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I sure do. Typically, prosecutors will say that a defendant does know right from wrong because they took steps to avoid capture. This is the exact opposite of what this defendant did. She wrote down everything she did. She clearly believed what she was doing was righteous. She didn`t know the difference between right and wrong because she made zero effort to hide, to conceal. She was found...
GRACE: Really?
CEVALLOS: She was found...
GRACE: I guess you didn`t hear the testimony from yesterday, Cevallos, about how after she kills her children, she put notes, sticky notes, up on the door so the car pool will go away and not know that she`s there with two dead bodies.
Steve Helling, writer with "People" magazine, who actually has spent time with Parker Schenecker -- Parker Schenecker, the father, on the stand. Steve Helling, how do you think he did?
STEVE HELLING, "PEOPLE" MAGAZINE (via telephone): You know, I think that he has been strong. He certainly was ready to get there and tell what he needed to tell. And they asked him questions about, you know, he was the one who bought the gun. And of course, the answer was no because he was, you know, deployed during that time. So he`s been -- he`s really been a strong man during (INAUDIBLE) and I think he`s done a really good job.
GRACE: Everybody, Parker Schenecker has been on the stand today in the murders of his two children, Calyx and Beau. Staggering testimony in the courtroom today as the jury finds out about the mom`s journals -- I did my duties, then I went to buy a gun.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you personally observe any negative and antagonistic discourse between your ex-wife and Calyx?
SCHENECKER: Personally viewed them a couple of times maybe at a dinner table. But most of them were relayed to me by one or the other.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. At times in your discussions with your ex- wife, did she describe to you events, discussions, disagreements, arguments with her daughter, Calyx?
SCHENECKER: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And did you discuss with her your view of her reaction to Calyx?
SCHENECKER: Yes, sir, I did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you recall about those discussions?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Objection, hearsay.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Overruled.
SCHENECKER: What I said to my ex-wife was that she needed to be the adult in the relationship, that she was reverting to childish tactics with a child, and it was not getting anywhere -- it was not getting anyone anywhere.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was the defendant receptive to your suggestion and analysis?
SCHENECKER: No, sir.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Inu a Tampa courtroom, the father of these two young children on the stand, murder charges against his wife, Julie Schenecker, who claims she shot them because they were mouthy and sassy.
Joining me out of New York, Patricia Saunders, clinical psychologist. Dr. Saunders, she reeked of booze when cops came to pick her up. She wrote a note and put it on the front door so the car pool would go away and not discover the dead bodies, claiming they`d gone on a trip to New York. And she said she meant to kill herself but she, quote, "fell asleep." That`s not crazy. That`s crazy like a fox.
PATRICIA SAUNDERS, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, she has a history of psychiatric mental illness, but she`s legally sane. Her behavior indicates she knew the difference between right and wrong...
GRACE: She has a history of depression, OK? If that -- if that were a defense, that would be used all the time in murder cases. Depression? Half of America`s depressed. We`re the richest country in the world, but we want more and more and more, so we`re depressed, all right? Depression doesn`t cut it, Patricia.
What do you make of her saying, I meant to kill myself, but I fell asleep?
SAUNDERS: She had 12 meds on board. She was found with Oxycodone, Percodan, heavy-duty narcotics. She has a history of alcoholism. This woman knew the difference between right and wrong. She is not legally insane.
GRACE: Everybody, we are live at the courthouse and we`ll bring you the latest as that trial progresses.
When we come back, Seattle co-ed "foxy Knoxy," Amanda Knox, swore she was innocent, claims that she and her Italian boyfriend murder her 21-year- old roommate, stabbing her dead. But tonight, in the last hours, CCTV -- closed-circuit TV -- has been dug up and reveals Amanda Knox walking just yards from the murder scene while she claims her alibi -- she`s across town snugged up with her boyfriend.
No, no, no, no! You`re busted, Knox!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: First she`s guilty, then she`s not guilty, then she`s guilty again. Now it`s on appeal. We`re talking about Seattle co-ed "foxy Knoxy," Amanda Knox, who swore to us for months she was innocent on claims that she and her Italian boyfriend murder her 21-year-old roommate, stabbing her dead. She claims she had an airtight alibi.
Well, a lot of people fall for a pretty face. But tonight, closed- circuit TV -- CCTV -- dug up, reveals Amanda Knox walking just yards from the murder scene at the time she claims she was snugged up across town with her boyfriend.
Totally busted! Liz, let`s see the video. This is closed-circuit TV video. And when it -- there you go. And when it is slowed down and played in slow-mo, it`s very apparent that it is Amanda Knox.
Now, of course, the defense is saying that that`s not her. But there it is! And the other one, as well, to me, is even -- the black and white one on the left busting her alibi wide open. That surveillance video from TV show "Corso Grado (ph)," a media set (ph) four (ph) in Italy.
OK, with me, Andrea Vogt, freelance reporter who covered the case from the get-go. Andrea, thank you for being with us. Of course, now Amanda Knox is in the U.S., and it`s very doubtful she`s going to go sightseeing in Italy any time soon. What do you make of this video, this closed- circuit TV video, Andrea?
ANDREA VOGT, FREELANCE REPORTER (via telephone): Well, certainly, the Italian media is alleging it is Amanda Knox. I think if they had decent footage of Amanda Knox in that parking garage, prosecutors would have splashed it out during the trial, which raises the question, who is leaking this video and why?
You know, Rafaelle Sollecito is one step away from going down for good for this crime. I think we have to look at the video a bit suspiciously and ask, Why now? Certainly, that parking garage -- I`ve walked through it many times myself. Literally, Nancy, you could throw a baseball...
GRACE: Wow!
VOGT: ... and hit Meredith and Amanda`s house from that spot. So if it`s proven to be her, it would demolish her alibi.
GRACE: Wow!
VOGT: (INAUDIBLE) right at the murder scene.
GRACE: With me, Andrea Vogt, reporter who covered the Amanda Knox case from the get-go.
Anne Bremner is the spokesperson for Friends of Amanda Knox. What about it, Anne Bremner? It looks like her to me.
ANNE BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY, SPOKESPERSON FOR FRIENDS OF AMANDA KNOX (via telephone): Well -- hi, Nancy. I think it could be -- it could be me in there. Could be a man. But the fact of it is...
GRACE: You`re kidding. That looks just like Amanda Knox. Did you just say it could be a man?
BREMNER: Well, it`s so grainy, Nancy. Look at it this way. Andrea said (INAUDIBLE) they didn`t even use it. The prosecution was...
GRACE: Well, wait a minute! I`m asking you -- I`m not asking you about the prosecution`s decision. This is -- this is, as Andrea Vogt -- Andrea Vogt just said you could throw a baseball to her home.
Clark Goldband, what is closed-circuit TV? What is this video?
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Sure. You`re seeing it here now in the U.S. in the last few years, but it is really everywhere in Europe. We`re talking millions of cameras. Here`s the thing, though, Nancy. If this is Amanda Knox, she was seen walking away -- away from the home two minutes before the victim...
GRACE: But she`s in the...
GOLDBAND: Right.
GRACE: She`s within a baseball throw from the murder scene.
GOLDBAND: Yes.
GRACE: Her alibi, Clark, is that she`s across town slung up with her boyfriend.
GOLDBAND: Nancy...
GRACE: She can`t be in the parking garage beside the murder scene and across town in bed with a boyfriend at the same time, Clark!
GOLDBAND: But according to this program, Nancy, they say that the victim was seen walking towards the home two minutes prior. So questions swirling again. Not confirmed this is Amanda Knox on the video, but many people think it is.
GRACE: Yes, of course, the defense is claiming it`s not her. But according to many experts, legal experts, this is Amanda Knox just a stone`s throw from the murder scene, torpedoing the defense that she was across town at the time her roommate was brutally murdered.
When we come back, one of the most popular "Real Housewives" facing stunning claims of child neglect. And in the last hours, a judge throws up his hands with the whole drama and sends the whole kit and kaboodle to mediation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A judge has ordered Tamara and Simon to attend mandatory mediation to work out custody and visitation issues.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And then later, have you ever just wanted to slap somebody? A 27-year-old mother accused of sending a known pedophile photos of her own 2-year-old little girl posed with a sex toy?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: And now live to the OC. One of the most popular real housewives facing stunning claims of child neglect. Accusations of abuse fly. In the last hours, a judge throws up his hands with the whole drama and says the sends the whole kitten kaboodle to mediation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tamara Barney`s life is played out for all to see on Bravo`s "Real Housewives of Orange County."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you understand me? Stay out of my life.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Simon has the kids Wednesday afternoon to Friday morning. Tamara has them Monday morning to Wednesday morning.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I didn`t sign on to be a part-time mom.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That video from Bravo`s "Real Housewives of Orange County." Okay, Alexis, senior reporter, radaronline.com, I`m reading from the legal document. This housewife, Tamara Sue Barney, age 46, she admits to being 46. Tamara Sue Barney, star of "Real Housewives of Orange County" has three children with Simon. A 15-year-old, a 13-year-old, an 8-year-old. One son from the first marriage. In the court documents, it is alleged the father wants sole custody, that the child has not been fed or bathed. Doesn`t feed the children for days on time. That the little boy had a broken bone and kept asking mommy for help. And she refused to do anything about it. Didn`t take him to the hospital. Turns out the bone was in fact broken. The son begged -- I`m reading from the document. Begged to be taken to the doctor. Didn`t happen. Also ankle and wrist injuries that were not treated. That the youngest little girl has returned from mommy sick. Was not taken to the doctor. That she was dirty, filthy, hasn`t been fed. That the children are embarrassed by their mother`s behavior on "Real Housewives."
And also, there is something in here about the child being so dirty she had bugs in her hair. Now, I`m guessing that is lice. I don`t know. So let`s hear her side. Everybody, you are seeing video from Bravo`s "Real Housewives OC." Hit it, Alexis, what`s her side? What about the bugs in a little girl`s hair?
TERESZCUK: Tamara says this is all from her ex-husband, who is angry, because he he is not on the show anymore. He doesn`t want the kids on the show. And that he is lashing out. These are text messages between the two of them that are actually in the court documents. So it is not, he maybe said this, she maybe said that. He does say these things to her in text messages. He said, I picked up our daughter, she hasn`t had a bath in days, when was the last time you gave her a bath? She said, you know, it was a little while. Did she maybe think she got hot and sweaty at school? That it`s not my fault?
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Let`s address some of these. Not getting medical care. Not getting nutritional meals. Not getting bathed. Having bugs in her hair. Let`s take a look, and the children claiming they are embarrassed. Embarrassed by their mom on TV. I don`t know why they would say that. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: First of all, it is none of your [ bleep ] business do you understand me? Stay out of my life. Stay out of my [ bleep ] life. Every time I --
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Really? Here you go. This is a letter from my attorney.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He will give it to my attorney.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, here is your [ bleep ] letter, bitch.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don`t throw your skinny ass --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Throw me --
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, that hurts.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Evil bitch.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Really?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Get out of here. Nobody likes you. You are the meanest person in the world. You are going to go to hell. You are going to go to hell!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I don`t know why the children say they are embarrassed by mommy.
This is from Bravo`s "Real Housewives of Orange County." Now, Liz, cue up that other tape of the Real Housewives, and we are addressing claims in the husband`s complaint in court, that says that the children are embarrassed by mommy. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I had a conversation with Eddie a couple of days ago about the possibility of having a baby.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What did he say?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think he`s content and happy right now. But the truth is, like, I don`t think my kids 50 percent of their time, 50 percent of their life, right? I don`t get to see them.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is that why you think you want to push Eddie?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You feel as though you need a child with him too?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When you left the restaurant, you weren`t drunk. So I don`t understand. Why don`t you take the big ass (bleep) suitcase full of all the [ bleep] that I put together for you, because you don`t give a [ bleep ] about me. Right? You don`t care about me. I`m glad this is really funny to you. Because it really [ bleep ] hurt my feelings a lot. I put a lot together (inaudible). So why the [ bleep ] would you just run off like that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t get it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Okay, with me, Alex McCord, former Real Housewife, host of the Real Deal on Stir.com. What is her defense? The claims by her husband the children are dirty, she is too busy shooting the show, buying all these fancy clothes, living the high life and not paying attention to her children.
MCCORD: We`re not telling the whole story here, Nancy. Which is, he is just as bad as she is, if not worse. This is a brutal, brutal, horrible custody battle. And what I want to know is why weren`t these documents sealed? If I`m the 15-year-old daughter right now, I`m more embarrassed by the allegations in the court documents than I am about what`s going on on the show. Tamara has abided by the agreement that she didn`t film with the kids.
GRACE: So your defense is, he`s just as bad as her? That`s the defense? Because that`s not really knocking me out. Hold on. Unleash the lawyers Danny Cevallos, Darryl Cohen. Darryl, what`s the defense?
COHEN: I`m just laughing. The judge thought so much of this case, he took (inaudible), he gave it to mediation, Nancy. This is ridiculous. This is reality, it is selling TV. This is (inaudible). There is no reason for a defense. There is nothing here. If the judge thought there was something to it, he would not give it to mediation.
GRACE: Danny Cevallos, I want to hear your defense of the real housewives. I don`t want to hear an attack on the judge.
CEVALLOS: Let me see if I have this right. You are reading allegations in a divorce complaint as if you were reading from the Tora. This is not a law enforcement affidavit. There is no -- if you have ever read any divorce complaint proceedings, and believed even a smidgen, a scintilla of them, they are full of outlandish allegations on both sides. Law enforcement does not investigate complaints in a divorce.
GRACE: So to get to the crux of what you are saying. I think what you are trying to say is, that the husband is embellishing or making this up.
CEVALLOS: All divorce parties do that.
GRACE: Radaronline.com, where does the whole thing stand right now? Who has the children?
TERESCZUK: They actually still each have 50/50 custody. She gets to see them three days a week, he sees them two days, two and a half, and then they swap weekends.
GRACE: Adding up to -- OK, then they swap every other weekend.
TERESCZUK: They swap weekends. But the oldest daughter, the one who says she is embarrassed by her mom, has actually been living with her dad since the fall. And he is claiming in court documents she has only seen her mom for about 11 days.
GRACE: So the oldest daughter is choosing to live with her father. OK. I don`t know what the takeaway to that is. Everybody, when we get back, a morning cyclist gets the shock of a lifetime when she stumbles on the body of a 24-year-old U of Cal co-ed. Sierra Winkler. At this hour, no leads. Tonight, we want justice.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The body of a 20-year-old college student found near a Southern California beach.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Winkler was pronounced dead on the scene.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a terribly tragic story.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Then later, have you ever just wanted to slap somebody? A 27- year-old mother accused of sending a known pedophile photos of her own 2- year-old little girl posed with a sex toy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: A morning cyclist gets the shock of a lifetime when he stumbles on the body of a 20-year-old U of Cal co-ed Sierra Markee Winkler. At this hour, no leads. Tonight, we want justice.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A bicyclist on a Sunday morning makes a shocking discovery. The body of a young woman named Sierra Markee Winkler found near a Southern California beach. Sierra Markee Winkler was a second-year student at the University of California Santa Barbara, but they don`t know how the student died. Could she have been the victim of foul play?
GRACE: Straight out to Tyler Hayden, joining me from Santa Barbara with the Santa Barbara Independent. Tyler, thanks for being with us. Do we know the cause of death yet, Tyler?
TYLER HAYDEN, SANTA BARBARA INDEPENDENT: Nancy, we don`t know the cause of death, yet. There will be an autopsy performed tomorrow to determine the cause of death. But at this point, it is pretty open as far as how she passed away.
GRACE: With me, Tyler Hayden from the Santa Barbara Independent. Tyler, tell me again, and I`m not casting doubt on the cyclist that found her, I just want to know a little more information. Who was the cyclist? Why was he riding his bike on the beach? How did he happen to find the body? Is there any connection between this co-ed and the cyclist that found the body?
HAYDEN: Nancy, I haven`t heard of any connection between the victim and the bicyclist. We`re not sure if he was riding on the beach or if he was riding actually on the bluff above the beach. At this point, there is very little information as far as who he was, if he knew the victim at all or if he just happened to come across her. That will come out in the investigation that the sheriff`s office is currently conducting.
GRACE: What we are being told right now is that he just happened to be cycling along. Everybody, take a look at Sierra Markee-Winkler. 20- year-old co-ed there at U of Cal. Her body has been found on a beach. Tonight, no leads.
To Dr. Joy M. Carter, chief forensic pathologist Marion County, she is the author of "I Speak for the Dead." Dr. Carter, thanks for being with us. Right now, we don`t have the autopsy results, but we know that the cause of death was not apparent. In other words, the cyclist didn`t see a stab wound or a gunshot wound, that we know of.
CARTER: Well, yes. This means that a complete autopsy will be performed. We are going to take a close examination of the body as well as complete toxicology to see if there`s any drug or chemical in her body that may have caused her death. And there is a possibility that there could be a natural death when they do the autopsy.
GRACE: What about asphyxiation?
CARTER: That is something that definitely will be considered. There may be physical signs. I`m sure the investigators will want to look up any of her medical history and past behavior.
GRACE: Tyler Hayden joining me from Santa Barbara Independent. What do we know about her? How long has she been at the University of Cal?
HAYDEN: She is a second-year student at UCSB. She was double majoring in language culture society as well as philosophy. She worked at an area coffee shop called Java Station. I know she originally came from Grass Valley, but her family is currently living in Eureka. By all accounts, she was very well liked. Popular person at school and at her work. So a lot of people are very surprised to hear that this happened.
GRACE: Tyler Hayden with me, news editor, Santa Barbara Independent. Tyler, how far was her body from the Java Station where she worked, do you know?
HAYDEN: Java Station is actually on a different part of town, different part of Isla Vista. She was at least a couple of miles, maybe a mile, from her place of work. Her body was found below what is called Delplia (ph) park, which is a beachside park right along Delplia (ph) Drive in Isla Vista.
GRACE: Was she clothed?
HAYDEN: You know, that I don`t know. That is something that I`ve not been told by investigators. I asked that question as well, but I`m not sure.
GRACE: With me, Tyler Hayden, also with me, Stacey Newman. Stacey, do we know whether was she out jogging, was she out walking, cycling, walking the dog, why was she in that spot? It is nowhere near her work or home?
NEWMAN: Actually, this spot is less than a mile from where she lives.
GRACE: Oh, good to know.
NEWMAN: And cops have also told us they have caught up with the people who were with her before she was found dead. So they are still getting together in this investigation, where she was and what she was doing.
GRACE: All right. Tyler Hayden, he is with the Santa Barbara Independent, do you know how long her body had been there before it was discovered? Could they tell?
HAYDEN: I had heard that it wasn`t any longer than six to eight hours. That is the number that I heard. It wasn`t like her body had been there for days.
GRACE: Well, what I`m wondering about is, was she still dressed in evening clothes? Did she still have on her outfit that she wore to work the night before, that she wore to school the day before? Had she been out somewhere else, did she have on high heels and you know, an outfit to go out. I`m trying to time when the death occurred and what she may have been doing on that beach.
Everybody, take a look at Sierra Markee-Winkler. Just 20 years old. Police tonight searching for answers.
When we come back, have you ever just wanted to slap somebody? Because I do right now. A 27-year-old mother accused of sending a known pedophile photos of her own 2-year-old little girl with a sex toy.
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GRACE: Have you ever just wanted to slap somebody? A 27-year-old mother accused of sending a known pedophile photos of her 2-year-old little girl with a sex toy. A photo of a 2 year old with a sex toy sent to a pedophile? My question isn`t should she be sent to jail, it`s just how long can mommy stay there?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 27-year-old Camille Salmon-Eaton (ph) posed her 2 year old daughter with a sex toy, took photographs of the child, then sent them to a pedophile in Alabama. The allegations are almost too painful to comprehend. In her defense, the mother is claiming the daughter she`s accused of abusing was never physically harmed.
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GRACE: Out to Noah Laden, news anchor, WABC. The defense says the child was never harmed?
LADEN: The defense says that she was never harmed, and they suggest that that`s enough to keep her out of jail. She faces 15 years in prison, but they say well, it`s just a picture she texted out to this pervert.
GRACE: Okay, question, how do I know the guy`s a pervert? It doesn`t make any difference whether he`s a pedophile or not. Taking the photo itself is lewd and lascivious under the law, but she sent it to a known pedophile, so what can you tell me?
LADEN: What I can tell you that this sicko mom, she could get 15 years behind bars. She claims that at the time she sent these photos, she texted it to another sicko that she was legally insane, so that`s part of her defense, as well.
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GRACE: Okay, Noah Laden, WABC, you`re telling me the mom is claiming she was insane when she sent the picture of her 2-year-old little girl posed with a sex toy to a known pedophile, but prosecutors argue she tried to cover up the crime, that she`s cunning, not insane, because they know she threw out the sex toy and the Blackberry, and she transferred 100 photos off the Blackberry to a new phone, but not the incriminating ones with her daughter and a sex toy. What about that?
LADEN: You could say, look at that, and you could say, hey, clearly she`s not insane. If she was insane, she wouldn`t have thought, hey, how am I going to get out of this now that I`ve been busted with these pictures on my phone? Let me throw the phone out and maybe they`ll never find the phone again, find the images again.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: The guy, Darryl Cohen and Danny Cevallos, first to you, Cohen. The guy that she`s sending the photos to advertised on Craigslist for any girls into taboo sex -- okay, that`s who she`s sending the photo to. Darryl?
COHEN: It clearly shows that this woman is out of her mind. She may have done what -- it`s my defense because today is crazy day. She is crazy, she knew what she was doing, but she thought what she was doing was right. What she did was wrong.
GRACE: I could just take your argument, and drop it into the Schenecker discussion, because that`s what you said there.
COHEN: I agree.
GRACE: Also, Cevallos, the guy that she sent it to has done hard time for lewd and lascivious behavior. It`s not like we think he`s a pedophile, he`s a convicted pedophile.
CEVALLOS: Yes, well, studies show that this is a recidivist crime, but pornography cases, as disgusting as they are, may be defensible, because each picture is different, and the statute requires sexually explicit conduct, and that must be analyzed in a case by case basis.
GRACE: Hold on, hold on, let me just correct one thing. Pornography is in a different category than child pornography.
CEVALLOS: Of course, 2256, yes.
GRACE: The Supreme Court says that pornography is allowed under the First Amendment in certain cases; child pornography never allowed.
You know what, let`s stop and remember American hero, Army Private First Class Norman Cain III, just 22, Mt. Morris, Illinois. National Defense Service Medal, loved playing darts, the outdoors, and restoring cars. Parents Norman Jr. and Lisa. Widow Bridget, two children. Norman Cain III, American hero.
To all of you mothers out there and all of you celebrating mothers, go to nancygrace.com for a contest so you can win our set of handcuff necklaces and new bracelets. Other Mother`s Day surprises. All the proceeds go to a Methodist home for abused children. And all you mothers, I know, want to help with that. Log on nancygrace.com. Drew up next, everybody. I`ll see you tomorrow night. 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
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