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Nancy Grace
More Julie Schenecker Police Tapes
Aired May 08, 2014 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Tampa suburbs. Police race to a million-dollar mansion, a little girl at her computer doing homework dead, her little brother still buckled in the minivan, dead. Cops hone in on Mommy, lounging by the luxury pool in the back yard in a bloody housecoat. She calmly explains she shoots her children dead in the mouth because they, quote, "talked back" to her.
Bombshell tonight. Mommy has a meltdown on the judge after Mommy pulls a courtroom trick. Tonight, Mommy in her own words, after gunning down her two children, says, I hope they`re dead. Tonight, the stunning police tape played in court. We have the audio.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A mom of two, Julie Schenecker, stands accused of shooting her boy and girl in cold blood with a .38 revolver because, as she says, they talked back and were mouthy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know what kind of condition they`re in?
JULIE SCHENECKER, MURDER DEFENDANT: (INAUDIBLE) mess.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re a mess? Are they alive or dead?
SCHENECKER: I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you think?
SCHENECKER: I hope so.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You hope what?
SCHENECKER: I hope they`re dead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, the ritzy, snooty community with houses like Seinfeld`s house at $32 million, Billy Joel`s home, $29 million, J-Lo`s $10 million, the richest of the rich say, Kardashians, get out. Backlash from Hamptons locals intensifies as Kourtney and Khloe Kardashian search for a mansion to film their spin-off show. Hey! Kicking somebody out of town? Is that legal? Suck it up, Hamptons, because I don`t think so!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kourtney and Khloe Kardashian are getting ready to take the Hamptons.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Happy birthday, Kim!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But according to reports, the people that live in the Hamptons aren`t too happy about it and want to keep the Kardashians out.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everyone...
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shut up!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shut up! Shut up!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That video from E!`s "Keeping Up With the Kardashians."
And to Winona (ph), Missouri, a husband and father of two tonight suspected of giving his wife a cool, refreshing glass of Kool-Aid spiked with poison, lethal amounts of propynol (ph). And yes, Mommy`s dead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Law enforcement says 35-year-old Jason McClure (ph) encouraged his wife to drink Kool-Aid because their 2-year-old son made it for her. Reports say the man allegedly laces the Kool-Aid himself with drugs, causing his wife to die!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, she`s beautiful to start with. Why she thought she needed lipo, I don`t know. The former model heads into surgery, doesn`t give it a second thought. Tonight, we learn her surgeon actually switches her medical records with another patient`s to hide the fact his botched liposuction ends in murder.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But for the procedure, she would have lived.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The doctor is 51-year-old Oleg Davy (ph). The patient who died was 51-year-old Iso Pineda (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All references to her heart transplant and her anti- rejection medication...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And caught on tape -- home alarm, check. Gate around the house, check. Doors and windows locked, check. Doggy door, not checked. Tonight, Fort Worth. We catch a home burglar who breaks in, finally finds the weak spot, the doggy door.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The doggy door bandit is reportedly at it again after video surfaces of a man breaking into a family home while the family was at church. The burglar goes through the house taking items, including jewelry, even stealing food from the family fridge.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight, Tampa suburbs. Police race to a million-dollar mansion, a little girl at her computer doing her homework dead, her little brother, still buckled in the minivan, dead. Cops hone in on Mommy lounging by the luxury pool in the back yard in a bloody housecoat. She calmly explains she shoots her children dead in the mouth because they, quote, "talked back" to her.
Mommy has a meltdown on the judge in the last hours after Mommy pulls a courtroom stunt. Tonight, Mommy in her own words after gunning down her two children, says, I hope they`re dead. Tonight, the stunning police tapes played in court. We have the audio.
Joining me at the courthouse right now, "People" magazine writer Steve Helling and Tampa reporter Meredyth Censullo. Meredyth, this audio of Julie Schenecker is damning. What does the jury do when they hear that?
MEREDYTH CENSULLO, TAMPA REPORTER: You know, there wasn`t a lot of reaction from the jurors. They were reading along, listening to the audio really expressionless. I think when you`re hearing this -- when you`re hearing this for the first time, it really is startling to hear it and taken a couple minutes to process exactly what you`re hearing.
GRACE: I believe it. Take a listen to what jurors heard in court.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know where they`re at right now?
SCHENECKER: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tell me where.
SCHENECKER: Beau`s in the van.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, and where is your daughter?
SCHENECKER: In her bedroom.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where at?
SCHENECKER: I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know what kind of condition they`re in?
SCHENECKER: They`re a mess.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re a mess? Are they alive or dead?
SCHENECKER: I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you think?
SCHENECKER: I hope so.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You hope what?
SCHENECKER: I hope they`re dead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You hope they`re dead?
SCHENECKER: Yes. What do you think?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re dead.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
SCHENECKER: She stares straight ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She didn`t know you were there?
SCHENECKER: But I shot her in the back of the head, in the mouth.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right. When you shot her in the head, did she fall forward or anything?
SCHENECKER: She fell sideways.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fell sideways. And then how did you shoot her in the mouth? Where was she laying?
SCHENECKER: She was -- she was...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Still in the chair?
SCHENECKER: Yes, still in the chair. I had to reach around.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you stick it right inside her mouth?
SCHENECKER: No, I didn`t do the inside (INAUDIBLE) no.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just from the outside, shot?
SCHENECKER: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
SCHENECKER: I didn`t know if the neighbors would hear it, but I guess they didn`t or they would have come running.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Stunning, stunning audio played in front of the jury. Unleash the lawyers. Joining me today, John Phillips, defense attorney, who you will recall from the Michael Dunn trial, also Parag Shah, defense and author of "The Code."
John Phillips, how can the defense possibly fight back from this?
JOHN PHILLIPS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: The issue is not murder. They`re going to get her for murder. But it`s how legally insane she is, and clearly, this woman is off the charts. I think what she wanted to do is save her children from the fate, the bipolar disorder, the drugs.
GRACE: Really?
PHILLIPS: She just had a dark...
GRACE: That`s not what she said. She says she shot them because they mouthed off at her, Parag Shah. That`s not what she said at all. But good try, Phillips. Excellent. Shah?
PARAG SHAH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think that audiotape absolutely shows that she`s not of sound mind. She doesn`t know what`s going on. She hopes...
GRACE: So she committed a murder?
SHAH: She was insane. She didn`t know what she was doing.
GRACE: Please put him back up! Parag Shah, just because you keep saying she`s insane, she`s insane, that doesn`t make it true. And it doesn`t make me believe it. Now, if you have something to back it up...
(CROSSTALK)
SHAH: We got to hear all the evidence.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She plotted the demise of her own children.
GRACE: She plotted the demise of her own children. Yes, she knew what she was doing was wrong, and that -- is it not...
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was possibly contemplating...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... you`re Parag Shah. Back to Phillips. Phillips, isn`t it true that the McNaughton (ph) rule applies in our country, brought over from Great Britain, the old common law, you must show that you did know right from wrong at the time of the incident? If she didn`t know right from wrong at the time of the incident, then why did she try to throw off the car pool and why did she go buy a gun ahead of time and lie about why she needed the gun?
I mean, Liz, show a shot of their neighborhood, please. She said they were having home invasions. She must have heard that on the 11:00 o`clock news. She wouldn`t know a home invasion if it bit her on the neck. Come on! You think there`s going to be a home invasion in this multi-million-dollar mansion enclave? No! So she knew she was lying Phillips.
PHILLIPS: The premeditation does hurt her case hard-core. But you know, you come back to the fact that everything about her passes the -- fails the crazy test miserably. She`s flat nuts. And...
GRACE: OK, let`s take a listen to what she said. Parag Shah, John Phillips, take a listen to what the jury has just heard.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did that happen to Calyx before Beau, or did that happen to Beau first?
SCHENECKER: Beau first.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Beau first? Beau was in the car with you?
SCHENECKER: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And what Beau was -- Beau he was smarting off to you?
SCHENECKER: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then where did you -- did you shoot Beau?
SCHENECKER: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With that 38?
SCHENECKER: Inside of the head.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
SCHENECKER: And then I did his mouth, too.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, you shot him twice in the head?
SCHENECKER: Yes...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
SCHENECKER: ... because they`re too sassy.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do you get in touch with your husband? Do you have a phone number for him over there?
SCHENECKER: Uh-uh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No? How do you get in touch with him?
SCHENECKER: E-mail.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: E-mail?
SCHENECKER: Do you know what his e-mail is?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you going to tell him?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, we`re not going to tell him. I`m sure he`s going to find out, though.
SCHENECKER: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I imagine he would. It`s a pretty hard thing to deal with. You understand. I mean, put yourself in his position, you know what I mean? And of course, you`re going to get upset, you know what I mean?
SCHENECKER: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You got to look at it that way, too, right?
SCHENECKER: He is going to be upset, really upset.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Steve Helling, writer with "People" magazine. Steve, there was a moment in court where I think the defense, including Julie Schenecker, was trying to trick the judge because the judge was asking, Do you stipulate that the children were killed on this particular day, January 27th? And all the lawyers stipulate, and he asks her to get the defendant`s agreement on the record. And she says, Well, that`s what they told me to say.
That doesn`t cut it. What happened in court? What did the judge say?
STEVE HELLING, "PEOPLE" MAGAZINE: Well, you know, it was really interesting because this is basic. I mean, you obviously know this, that there are certain things that are stipulated to. And you know, she got a little bit hysterical for a little bit. She was wiping her eyes. And basically, the judge wanted to make 100 percent sure that she knew exactly what she was agreeing to and stipulating to, and finally, that ended up happening, but it took a while.
GRACE: Well, Steve Helling, can tell you exactly why this is happening. Under the law, the state has the burden of proving the date on the indictment and the jurisdiction. If you fail to show that you have jurisdiction over the crime, you forget to put that in evidence, the case fails, all right? You also have to get the date of the incident in, or the approximate date of the incident.
Unleash the lawyers, Parag Shah and John Phillips. Parag Shah, isn`t it true that you can put on, for instance, a mass murder case, but if you don`t say, Officer, did this happen in Hillsborough County, if you don`t get the jurisdiction in, on appeal, the case is thrown out, double jeopardy. You don`t get to try it again. You must show jurisdiction. That`s a yes/no answer, Parag.
SHAH: Venue is the essential element of the defense and must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.
GRACE: I knew you would not just say yes or no. But you`re right. The way you phrased really is practically a quote from the black and white letter of the law.
So here`s what I`m saying, John Phillips. She`s crazy like a fox because when he tries -- the judge tries to pin her down on the date of the incident, she won`t answer. She won`t say, Yes, I agree. And if that had gone on up to appeal, that could have been a big problem on appeal.
PHILLIPS: Crazy like a fox. She`s sticking to this crazy, I don`t understand anything, right from wrong, any of it.
GRACE: Take a listen to what happened in court. Is this Julie Schenecker trying to get it over on the judge? Well, it didn`t work!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCHENECKER: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ma`am, that`s not the inquiry, and we`re not going to, respectfully, play that game.
SCHENECKER: I`m not playing a game, your honor. I understand.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. If you want more time with your attorney, I`ll give it to you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Beau was in the car with you?
SCHENECKER: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And Beau was smarting off to you?
SCHENECKER: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then where did -- did you shoot Beau?
SCHENECKER: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With that 38?
SCHENECKER: In the side of the head.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Before we take you back into the courtroom, with me is Gerry Tanso, the owner of Lock `n Load, who sold the gun to Julie Schenecker. Gerry, thank you for being with us.
GERRY TANSO, SOLD GUN TO SCHENECKER (via telephone): Thank you. Appreciate it.
GRACE: Did you ever imagine that you were going to get sucked in to a murder trial?
TANSO: Not in a lifetime.
(LAUGHTER)
GRACE: Gerry Tanso with me, owner of Lock `n Load. Tell me about your interaction with Julie Schenecker.
TANSO: She was an average person, easy-going, very nice, smiling, happy, and just a normal customer -- for us, anyways, you know?
GRACE: OK, could you please show Parag Shah and John Phillips because I want to make sure they`re hearing what Gerry Tanso, the owner of Lock `n Load gun shop, is saying when Julie Schenecker goes in to get the murder weapon.
Gerry Tanso, you said that she seemed normal, happy, everything was fine. Did she tell you why she felt she needed a gun?
TANSO: She said she needed a weapon because there was some crime in her neighborhood. And that was...
GRACE: What crime was that?
TANSO: ... good enough for us.
GRACE: What crime was that, a kid TPed another yard? What was the crime? Why did she think she needed a gun?
TANSO: Because there was crime in her neighborhood, in the -- in the neighborhood that she lived in.
GRACE: Now, were Julie Schenecker`s hands shaking when she came into the store?
TANSO: No, she was not shaking at all. She had a very slight shake in one of her hands, but that`s normal with a lot of people that come to the shop. A lot of older people shake. I mean, nothing to be alarmed about, you know?
GRACE: So when you sold Julie the murder weapon, did you have any reason to believe she had a mental illness, that she was insane, that she was drunk or high, any reason you felt you should not sell her a gun?
TANSO: Not at all. Not at all.
GRACE: In fact, did you find it unusual for a woman to be buying a gun?
TANSO: We sell guns to women every day, on a regular basis.
GRACE: What kind of gun did you say she bought?
TANSO: It was a Smith and Wesson Bodyguard .38.
GRACE: And did she buy ammunition?
TANSO: She bought ammunition, too. Correct.
GRACE: When she left, what was her demeanor?
TANSO: She was very nice, very good, very personable, smiling, happy, no signs of...
GRACE: In fact, didn`t she shake your hand when she left?
TANSO: That was on the day of the pick-up, yes. That was on the 27th, shook my hand, said good-bye, and everything was fine.
GRACE: Everyone, with me is Gerry Tanso, the owner of Lock `n Load gun shop that sold Julie Schenecker the murder weapon.
Gerry, so you saw her on two different occasions?
TANSO: Yes.
GRACE: What was she like on the second occasion?
TANSO: The second occasion, she was fine, and she was even happier that day than she was the first day.
GRACE: OK, why do you say that?
TANSO: Well, because she was just -- she was bubbly. She was excited, you know? She was just -- she was picking up a weapon, and she was excited. I mean...
GRACE: OK, hold on. I -- I`m writing so fast...
(CROSSTALK)
TANSO: ... to do anything, you know?
GRACE: I`m writing so fast, I can hardly get it written. Did you say she was bubbly and excited the day she picked her gun up?
TANSO: She was happy. There was no -- there was no -- you know, there was no animosity. There was nothing there, you know? I mean, it was just a normal sale, like everybody else that comes in, talking, happy, you know?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: The audio portions of Julie Schenecker`s statement played in front of that jury are damning. Not only that, we believe she and her defense team tried to trick the judge in court. Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you parked the van. And then what happened?
SCHENECKER: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right. And then what happened after that?
SCHENECKER: (INAUDIBLE) Beau on the way to...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On the way to what?
SCHENECKER: Practice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Which practice?
SCHENECKER: Soccer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was going to soccer?
SCHENECKER: Uh-huh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Tell me what happened. What happened on the way?
SCHENECKER: About halfway, I pulled out the gun, and he started yelling at me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did he say?
SCHENECKER: Put it in your purse. Do something with that gun. If you -- if you believe, God will send you...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you believe in what?
SCHENECKER: If you believe in God, he will send you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Send you where?
SCHENECKER: To heaven.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To heaven?
SCHENECKER: I think. Beau was always good. He was a good boy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I bet he was.
SCHENECKER: I hated shooting him, but (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You hated shooting him?
SCHENECKER: I hated it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why is it better?
SCHENECKER: Better than what?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You said, But it`s better.
SCHENECKER: Yes. It`s better than carbon monoxide.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: When we come back, the ritzy community with houses like Seinfeld`s at $32 million, Billy Joel`s, $29 million, J-Lo`s, $10 million, the richest of the rich say, Kardashians, get out. Hey, kicking somebody out of town, is that legal?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kourtney and Khloe Kardashian are getting ready to take the Hamptons, but some Hamptons residents might be taking on the Kardashians.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Then late, caught on tape. A home burglar breaks in and finally finds the weak spot, the doggy door.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: A ritzy, snooty community with houses like Jerry Seinfeld`s at $32 million, Billy Joel`s at $29 million, J-Lo`s at $10 million, the very richest of the rich, say, Kardashians, get out. Backlash from the Hamptons locals intensifies as Kourtney and Khloe search for a mansion to film their spin-off show.
But wait a minute. To kick somebody out of town -- can you do that? Is that legal? Suck it up, Hamptons, because I don`t think so!
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: Search for a mansion to film their spin-off show. But wait a minute. To kick somebody out of town? Can you do that? Is that legal? Suck it up, Hamptons, because I don`t think so.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The Kardashians not welcome in the Hamptons? The famous sisters` latest reality show is set to take place in the east coast home of the rich and famous. But some people in the Hamptons don`t want the famous sisters and the hassle of camera crews around the town.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mom.
KRIS JENNER, REALITY TV SHOW STAR: What`s happening -- is Obama coming?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Joining me, the senior editor of the "National Enquirer," Mike Walker.
Mike Walker, a lot of people don`t like the Kardashians, I think a lot of them just have sour grapes. If you don`t like them, just don`t watch them. All right?
MIKE WALKER, NATIONAL ENQUIRER SENIOR EDITOR: Exactly. Just ignore them. Even though the Hamptons, as you know, the toniest place, it`s the oldest English settlement in New York, you know, it`s the --
GRACE: Please stop.
WALKER: Social --
GRACE: Why do you even say that? Why do you say the oldest English settlement? You know what? Mike Walker, what`s their problem? What`s their problem with the Kardashians?
WALKER: Well, their problem is, they don`t want the paparazzis, they don`t want film crews, they don`t want all the hoo-ha that goes along with having the Kardashians in town. And if you think the Hamptons are being sensitive, listen to this. Even in New Jersey, Khloe is getting hell from all her neighbors because she has -- you know, her boyfriend French Montana lives in this little town in New Jersey which is not a high class -- it`s not low class either. It`s just a normal little town. And they don`t want --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I bet their house is nicer than mine.
WALKER: -- them there and they have claimed.
GRACE: I bet their house is a heck a lot nicer than mine.
WALKER: OK? Now --
GRACE: OK, so that`s a whole different thing, complaining to their face, but actually trying to get a petition, a legal cause of action to kick them out?
WALKER: Yes. They`ve gone to the mayor.
GRACE: Everybody, you`re seeing video from E!`s "Keeping Up with the Kardashians." The people in the Hamptons have actually gone to the mayor to complain.
WALKER: Right. So listen to this. Let me tell you why. And I don`t want to fire up this controversy any worse, but let me tell you why they`re afraid. In my column next week, Nancy, and you are the first one to hear this. In just a few days I`ll be hitting the streets with this. You know Calabasas in California, very fancy community, right?
GRACE: Yes.
WALKER: Where Justin Bieber lived.
GRACE: Yes.
WALKER: Where he was flaying eggs at everyone and racing his cars around.
GRACE: Yes.
WALKER: And his rapper pal, Tyga, just smuggled a full grown live tiger into the gated community. OK. After all that, Nancy, now they`re facing real terror, Kourtney Kardashian. Now let me tell you why. Exactly what they`re worried about in the Hamptons is already happening. Kourtney bought Keyshawn Johnson`s house for $8.5 million a few months ago.
GRACE: You`re getting way inside baseball with me, but go ahead.
WALKER: OK. So the neighbors are already up in arms. You know why, Nancy? Film trucks speeding up and down, blocking streets when they park to film scenes for the Kardashian`s reality TV show. Over a dozen film crews are parked outside Kourtney`s mansion, jamming everything on the streets with their big truck. Neighbors have gotten so upset they went to her house, they told the crews it`s against the rules, community rules, to film inside the gates.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: So I can understand, I can understand not wanting your street clogged up, or a big 18 wheeler parked in front of your house.
WALKER: Yes.
GRACE: But trying to go to the mayor and actually file a legal petition to stop somebody from moving in before they`ve even come in and caused you any problems?
Mike Walker, senior editor, "National Enquirer" with me. But now special guest, joining Mike Walker, Mark Epley, the mayor of the Village of Southampton.
Mayor, I have visited --
Hey, Nancy.
GRACE: I have visited South Hampton a couple of times. I was a freeloader. I came for the weekend and I had to go back to my hovel. But Mark, what is the problem with the Kardashians coming to film there? I mean, are you guys so highfaluting you can`t put up with the Kardashians for one season?
(LAUGHTER)
MAYOR MARK EPLEY, VILLAGE OF SOUTHAMPTON: No, I mean, you know, for me, it`s all about -- it`s all about safety and quality of life. And they`re talking about a pop-up store somewhere on one of my main roads. I`m just really worried about traffic flow, pedestrians flow. And ensuring the safety --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Well, wait a minute. Mark Epley, you`re trying to get it over on me, Mayor. Because two or three times I was there, it was bumper to bumper, everybody in New York tried to unload in the Hamptons for the summer. I mean, you -- it`s --
(CROSSTALK)
EPLEY: The film crews.
GRACE: OK. So it`s different if it`s a film crew?
EPLEY: You know, they`re not walking sidewalks and stuff like that.
GRACE: So it`s different if it`s a film crew versus a freeloader like myself, who`s coming to the Hamptons for the weekend? All right.
EPLEY: Nancy, you`re not a freeloader.
(LAUGHTER)
GRACE: Mayor Epley with me from the Village of Southampton.
To Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, author of "Dealbreakers." You know, Bethany, and of course I`m not talking about you, Mayor, because you`ve got a great reputation, Mayor Epley. But Bethany, when is it people get so rich, they think their air can`t be shared with others?
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": Oh, please, this is so elitist to me. And when the mayor is talking about like safety concerns and all of that --
GRACE: But what`s illegal --
MARSHALL: I mean, I hear Stepford wives. I hear like a community that`s become so rigid, so codified, so caught up in themselves, that they do not want any change. These girls might be a breath of fresh air, all right? They`re beautiful, they`re young, it`s a different culture. It`s --
GRACE: Well, you call it a breath of fresh air, but the Hamptons call it stinkers.
Unleash the lawyers, Parag Shah and John Phillips.
Parag Shah, can you kick somebody out of town?
PARAG SHAH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You`re entitled to the peace and enjoyment of -- of where you live. And if they are disrupting that, then they can absolutely file a petition to kick them out. You can`t kick someone out based on race, gender, discrimination.
GRACE: I`ve never heard of that. I`ve never heard of that.
JOHN PHILLIPS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: They`d have to show that they were an absolute nuisance here which is the case.
GRACE: But even then, Phillips, you can`t just kick somebody out of town. That`s not the law. You can bring a trespassing or a nuisance claim against them. Disturbing the peace for having wild parties or whatever they think is going to happen, or they can maybe cite a field crew truck that`s in the wrong place. But you cannot legally as far as I know kick people out of town.
PHILLIPS: You can get that nuisance injunction, but they can legislate them out of town. They can control permitting and licensing of where they can film, which may get rid of them pretty quick.
GRACE: You know, I don`t want to give away any of my trade secrets, Mike Walker, "National Enquirer," but very often when I would try a case with a defendant at the end, during the sentencing, I would say, and let it be ordered that John Doe never set foot in Fulton County again. And you know full well knowing that I didn`t have the legal capacity to kick anybody out of the county limits, but I tried. I get this is the same thing here, Mike Walker.
WALKER: Yes, it is. And Kourtney Kardashian and Mama-ger Kris Jenner are not going to be intimidated -- sorry, Mayor -- by any local people trying to keep them out of a community. You know, they get this heat all the time, they`re used to it.
GRACE: I bet they do.
WALKER: I just described what went on right now.
GRACE: Well, the reality is also, Mayor Epley, I found out that the -- that beautiful homes in which they film, that`s not really where they even live.
So Mayor Epley?
EPLEY: Yes.
GRACE: Are you a Kardashian fan? Do you watch the show?
(LAUGHTER)
EPLEY: I`ve never seen the show. I do have a 20-year-old daughter, Marissa, who watches the show so.
GRACE: Well, I`ve got a funny feeling your daughter is going to have it out with you, but you know what, please keep it quiet, because I don`t want you to be on the NANCY GRACE SHOW with a fight with your daughter over the Kardashians moving to the Hamptons.
Hey, Mayor, thank you for being with us. And Mike Walker, of course. Thank you for being with us.
Everybody, when we come back, a husband and father of two suspected tonight of giving his wife a cool refreshing glass of Kool-Aid spiked with poison.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Reports say the man allegedly laces the Kool-Aid himself with drugs. Causing his wife to die.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Then later, caught on tape. We catch a home burglar who tries to break in and finally finds the weak spot. The doggy door.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Now to Wynona, Missouri. A husband, a father of two, suspected tonight of giving his wife a cool refreshing glass of Kool-Aid, spiked with poison. Lethal amounts of drugs. And yes, mommy`s dead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A 32-year-old mom is dead. After authorities say her husband poisoned her Kool-Aid with prescription medication. Reports claimed Jason McClurg tried two days in a row to allegedly kill his wife. The woman dies. Authorities trying to determine motive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Jill Ryan, investigative reporter, what happened? What did he put in her Kool-Aid?
Now, everybody, Kool-Aid is not dangerous. Kool-Aid is fine. As we head into the summer months, Kool-Aid`s fine, it`s great, but not when you put propranolol in it.
Jill, what happened?
JILL RYAN, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Well, there are so many different versions of this story, Nancy. But the first version is that Jason McClurg actually who is a father of two children with his wife Stephanie, tried to poison her Kool-Aid. He put some motion sickness pills. At least that`s what reports indicate at this point. But that didn`t work. So he went back on Sunday and again told authorities at a later date, that he had actually put some blood pressure medication in some Kool-Aid that he said their toddler had made. So he had actually encouraged his wife needed to drink it and drink it pretty quickly.
GRACE: OK, to Nina, Dr. Nina Radcliff, physician, joining me out of New York, what is propranolol?
DR. NINA RADCLIFF, PHYSICIAN: It`s a blood pressure reducing medication that we call a beta blocker which reduces our heart rate so can drop our blood pressure to the point where it cannot refuse our brain. Anyone who has blood pressure will then pass out. And she probably passed out and then didn`t get enough blood to her brain and died after that because of this. So not enough blood to her brain, not enough blood to her heart.
GRACE: You know, Clark Goldband, did she not taste it?
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Well, Nancy, it`s important to point out that a lot of the information we`ve heard so far comes from unnamed sources and police documents. She apparently didn`t taste it. We don`t have any information on that. But apparently after she was encouraged to drink the drink that her 2-year-old child supposedly made for her, that`s when she passed away. However, one day later, Nancy, we`ve uncovered behind me some of the alleged posts this suspect has made on Facebook. And he says safety for your thoughts and prayers. I`m sorry, everyone, I just don`t know what to say right now. I will always love you, Stephanie, and you will forever be in my heart.
But take a look at this, Nancy. Then there`s another post after. "To my wife Stephanie, our wedding song, I miss you and love you so much, and I`m so sorry." Now cops say, Nancy, in the documents, he said his prescription drugs were stolen about two months ago about, but Nancy, one of these unnamed sources in police documents says, he borrowed $40, they believe to recently purchase this blood pressure medication.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Parag Shah, John Phillips.
John Phillips, did you see that? He said our wedding song? After he`s -- he`s arrested, has not been found guilty, of poisoning his wife in the Kool-Aid, he posts all this and includes their wedding song?
PHILLIPS: He`s playing it up pretty hard. The Kool-Aid man would not say oh, yes, he`d say oh, no on this one.
GRACE: And Parag Shah, you know they`re growing to bring that in at trial.
SHAH: They`re going to bring it in, but, you know, it doesn`t prove anything.
GRACE: OK, that`s all you got to say?
OK, don`t go back to him, Liz.
Let me ask you this, Dr. Nina Radcliff, can you taste propranolol?
RADCLIFF: I`m sorry, can you repeat that, Nancy?
GRACE: Can you taste it? Can you taste propranolol?
RADCLIFF: Yes, I`m assuming that that`s why he`s telling her to drink it fast, and drink it quickly, so she couldn`t taste it, that there was something wrong with it. And he used the excuse that the daughter, the 2- year-old made it. So I`m sure that there would have been some kind of a taste at the higher dosage. It`s probably bitter. And that`s why the pills are made that way where the medication inside with capsule so you cannot taste it.
GRACE: OK, Jill Ryan, investigative reporter, what`s the motive? Not that the state needs one. But what, is there a girlfriend, life insurance, what?
RYAN: Well, we`re thinking at this point authorities are definitely investigating life insurance as one of the possibilities. Stephanie worked as a nurse`s aide, and so she had a policy through work. There are also some reports that are a little bit older that go back regarding custody issues. So it could be. There were also some stepchildren involved to their two biological kids as well. Could be either one of those things. I know police are investigating and following up on those leads at this time.
GRACE: Bethany Marshall, weigh in.
MARSHALL: Well, those are the things you evaluate. You evaluate domestic violence, using the children as pawns. Trying to get rid of the mother, to alienate the mother, to have control over the children, live insurance policies.
Look, most homicides arise as a part of feelings that are engendered by our attachments. Right? Envy, jealousy, resentment, rage, claustrophobia, all these feelings come about as a result of attachment systems and can lead to homicide.
GRACE: At this hour the husband, Jason McClurg, has been arrested. He has not been formally charged nor has he been convicted yet.
When we come back, a former model heads into surgery for lipo. Tonight we learn her surgeon actually switches her medical records with another patients to hide the fact that his botched liposuction ends in murder.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But for the procedure she would have lived.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The liposuction says the DA was done at the doctor`s office where Pineda collapsed and died.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And later, caught on tape, we catch a home burglar who tries to break in and he finally finds the weak spot, the doggy door.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: She is beautiful to start with. Why she thought she needed lipo, I don`t know. The former model heads into surgery doesn`t give it a second thought. Tonight we learned her surgeon actually switches her medical records with another patient to hide the fact his botched liposuction ends in murder.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I learned of my sister`s death, I was in shock.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: D.H. Charles Hynes says Paneda disclosed to the doctor that she previously had a heart transplant and was on anti-rejection drugs. Hines says an ill-suited patient. It`s charged that medical forms the patient filled out were changed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Brett Larson, investigative reporter. Botched lipo ends in murder? What happened?
BRETT LARSON, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Yes, so Nancy, you know, she goes into this doctor`s office for what`s being described, it`s this inexpensive lipo procedure, this lose the wobble procedure as it says it`s called. She has the procedure and then dies in his office from cardiac arrest, not from something he did during the procedure but because he did the procedure and she had had a heart transplant years earlier.
She should have never been on the operating table with this guy. She should have never had the procedure. Paper were found in her purse shows that the doctor knew that she had the heart transplant but just ignored that and went ahead and did the procedure.
GRACE: To Dr. Paul Nassif, facial plastic and reconstructive surgeon, joining me from L.A., Dr. Nassif, you have an incredible reputation. What do you make of this doctor not only performing the surgery, lipo, on a woman who had a heart transplant, but then switching the documents? Switching her medical records with somebody else`s. And why do you die in lipo? What happens, you have a heart attack?
DR. PAUL NASSIF, FACIAL PLASTIC AND RECONSTRUCTIVE SURGEON: I mean, you know, Nancy, you`ve asked a few different questions and those are all great questions. First of all, you know, this doctor, if you see a scar on someone`s chest which looks like astronomy scar from having a heart transplant, you know the medical history, the first thing you do before performing any elective cosmetic procedure is to talk to the cardiologist and get a full clearance because this is elective, number one.
So that`s -- I can`t understand why the doctor didn`t do that. Number two, you know, when you have liposuction, there`s all kinds of things that can happen. And whether it`s bleeding, infection, you know, making her perforation into a cavity or getting a pulmonary embolism or basically just getting a heart attack because of Lidocaine toxicity or Epinephrine. All these things can happen. And that`s why someone with a heart transplant, you can`t let this -- you have to acknowledge this.
Last thing is the records. You don`t falsify records. That`s something that any good physician will never do. Then right there you basically have ruined everything you`ve ever done.
GRACE: Everybody, when we get back, caught on tape. Home alarm, check. Gate around the yard, check. Doors and windows locked, check. Doggy door, not checked.
We catch a home burglar who tries and tries to break in and finally finds the weak spot, the doggy door.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Caught on tape breaking in through the doggy door.
Joe Gomez, KLRD, what happened?
JOE GOMEZ, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, KLRD: Nancy, while this family was out going to church on Sunday, a burglar, police say, crawled into their house through the doggy door, proceeded to go into the kitchen, steal a knife, and then helped himself to some blackberries in the fridge. He was caught on surveillance videotape, Nancy. And the burglar, police say, he noticed the camera and guess what he did?
GRACE: Right.
GOMEZ: He picked up the camera and he took that, too. Now police --
GRACE: You know, Kyle Peltz, what I don`t get is these people thought they had done everything right. How common is it for people to break in through a doggy door?
KYLE PELTZ, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: It`s actually pretty common, Nancy. There have been some recent burglaries in the neighborhood and at least one other recent one where someone crawled through a doggy door. And police are still trying to determine if the two are related.
GRACE: OK, everybody, a new thing to worry about, burglars coming through your doggy door.
Let`s stop and remember American hero Army Staff Sergeant Jeremy Bessa, 26, Woodridge, Illinois. A green beret, Bronze Star, Purple Heart. Left studies at Southern Illinois University to enlist. Parents, Ted and Julie, brothers Christopher and Joel, sister, Brianna. Widow, Lindsay. Son, Carson.
Jeremy Bessa. American hero.
A special good night tonight from friends all the way from Ghana. Here`s Nana and Phyllis. Aren`t they beautiful?
And to all of you mothers and all of you celebrating mothers, go to Nancygrace.com for a contest to win a set of handcuff necklaces and new bracelets and other Mother`s Day Surprises. All proceeds going to a Methodist home for abused children. Go to Nancygrace.com.
Everybody, thanks so much for being with us tonight. Drew`s up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.
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