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Nancy Grace
Man Says Murdered Juilliard Student Speaks to Him From Beyond the Grave; Woman Reports Baby Missing, but Found in Gym Bag in Her Car
Aired May 12, 2014 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. A beautiful co-ed at the renowned Juilliard School found naked, strangled dad, propped sitting up in a local park, surrounded by two dozen yellow tulips. Tonight, police hone in on the married man who claims she speaks to him from beyond the grave, that she declares her love for him and that she also says she`s angry police have not found the real killer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sarah Fox was just 21 years old when she was murdered while jogging in Inwood Park.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cops say Fox was apparently beaten and strangled.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People like me are not murderers, guys, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Insists he`s not the killer, rather arguing victim some how communicates to him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Then to Jacksonville. A young mom calls 911 to report her baby girl missing. Cops find Mommy alone in the apartment, the door locked from the inside. The search for baby commences, only to end when the baby is found in a white Puma sports duffle, zipped shut in the back of Mommy`s locked car.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A Florida woman tells authorities she woke up and her 15-month-old daughter was gone.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When they got there, police found the child in the gym bag in the back seat of Dasher`s car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Outside, in the back seat of the mother`s car, stuffed into and zipped up inside an 18-inch-long nylon gym bag.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And Spring Valley, Texas, a 41-year-old male teacher busted after months of sex with a girl student. But when he`s found out, Mommy doesn`t report him to police and demand his arrest, Mom gives the teacher her blessing to marry her little girl so he can avoid prosecution.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you have sex with a 16-year-old girl?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The 41-year-old drama teacher is accused of having sex with a 16-year-old girl who was his student. Investigators also learned the alleged victim and Guardiola were married in Las Vegas.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you go to Vegas to avoid prosecution?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, million-dollar mansion, Tampa, a little girl at her computer doing homework dead, her little brother still buckled in the minivan dead. Cops find Mommy lounging by the luxury pool in the back yard in a bloody housecoat. She says she shoots her children dead in the mouth because they, quote, "talked back" to her.
Bombshell tonight. The defense of Julie Schenecker takes center stage, but it falls apart on cross. We learn how Mommy tells the little boy the gun was fake just before she shoots him, and that it was all a revenge killing, a get-back at her husband. She wanted the husband to find the dead bodies as a welcome home surprise. Then we learn Mommy`s not mentally ill, she`s just drunk!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sane people don`t shoot and kill their children.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And she told Beau that it wasn`t a real gun, correct?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She said it was a toy gun.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That she wanted the gun for protection because of burglaries in the neighborhood, correct?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So she lied to them as to the real reason that she wanted the gun, correct?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And to Boston (ph), a heart-breaking video goes viral. It`s an 8-year-old little girl detailing how she`s bullied and attacked on the school playground, but nothing`s ever done about it. School officials at Maggleton (ph) elementary, you need to be fired!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) on the playground. He said, You`re going to die by suicide.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is every kid who has been bullied. This is their story.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It makes me feel sad!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And scared!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It happens to me, too.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know what you`re going through. I`ve been bullied on my bus.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. A beautiful co-ed at the renowned Juilliard School found naked, strangled dead, propped sitting up in a local park, surrounded by two dozen yellow tulips. Tonight, police hone in on the married man who claims she speaks to him from beyond the grave, that she declares her love for him and that she also says she`s angry police haven`t found the real killer.
OK, let me get this straight. She`s found dead in the park surrounded by yellow tulips. He says she`s speaking to him from beyond the grave, claiming she loves him and that she`s angry they haven`t found the real killer.
OK, Clark Goldband this is my question.
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: OK.
GRACE: What does this married man have to do with this Juilliard student? And what is this business about speaking to him from beyond the grave?
GOLDBAND: That`s a good question, Nancy. Let`s go back, if you will. This 21-year-old star student was found dead in a park. Authorities at the time, including the elected DA...
GRACE: Wait a minute! Wait a minute! She wasn`t just dead, Clark. You`re leaving out important details. I mean, no offense. She is found nude, propped up -- the scene was staged. She was killed, strangled, body nude, sitting straight up, surrounded by yellow tulips.
GOLDBAND: Right.
GRACE: So it wasn`t a random killing. This is somebody that knew her or thought that they knew her, and they staged the scene to put one of her favorite flowers, yellow tulips, all around the body.
GOLDBAND: Correct.
GRACE: We also know she was jogging at the time, that it was her regular route. Someone familiar with the park knew that she jogged there. Go ahead, Clark.
GOLDBAND: Yes, Nancy. So she was found, as you describe, with yellow tulips surrounding all the stuff around. Authorities track her down about six days...
GRACE: Around what?
GOLDBAND: Around her...
GRACE: Around her dead, strangled body.
GOLDBAND: Around her body. Correct. Authorities tracked down this student`s body about six days later, Nancy, from the time she vanishes. A CD player was found about 100 feet from the body. Somehow -- and here`s the key question -- somehow, authorities lock in on this man. They say he frequents the park all the time. At that time, the elected DA, Nancy, in the jurisdiction states that this man is the number one suspect in the disappearance.
GRACE: OK, whoa! Whoa! Wait! Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait!
Dave Mack, talk show host, we don`t have a connection, like -- he`s not the boyfriend. He`s not a former lover. The only connection we have is -- wait a minute. Isn`t this guy, Dimitry Sheinman -- isn`t he the one that would patrol the park, like he was in charge of the park, with his Rhodesian ridgeback...
DAVE MACK, SYNDICATED TALK SHOW HOST: Yes, ma`am.
GRACE: ... and start arguments with people? Well, what`s...
MACK: He did. He was...
GRACE: ... a Rhodesian ridgeback, number one?
MACK: Well, it`s -- it`s a big dog that you have to keep on a leash because they`re dangerous. They`re very aggressive animals. And people were afraid of him because he was always creeping around. And he was confrontational at all times.
Plus, Nancy, this guy went to the police with these visions and thoughts and things, telling them things that hadn`t been reported in the press yet, right after she was discovered.
GRACE: OK, now, Clark Goldband, you didn`t tell me what Dave Mack just told me. You told me he`s not a boyfriend that we know of.
GOLDBAND: Right.
GRACE: He`s not a lover that we know of.
GOLDBAND: Yes.
GRACE: He`s not an ex that we know of. But he knows details about the murder...
GOLDBAND: He does.
GRACE: ... that nobody else knows? Details like what?
GOLDBAND: He does, Nancy. According to press reports, and if they are to be believed, he knows a few things. One, at least one of her ribs had been broken. Authorities said in press reports that no one else would know that aside from the family. Number two, she was allegedly menstruating at the time. Again, only her family would know that. And number three, there was allegedly a stick found between her legs, authorities saying that these...
GRACE: Wait a minute. It wasn`t just a stick, from my understanding. Back to Clark Goldband. Clark, number one, she was on her period, and this guy knows she`s on her period at the time she`s murdered? And Clark, the fact that she had a rib broken, that would not be obvious by just seeing the body. And number two, who else would know...
GOLDBAND: Sure.
GRACE: ... that there was a stake, not a stick lying there, but a stake was actually driven into the ground between her legs? Isn`t that true, Clark?
GOLDBAND: Sure, Nancy. According to press reports, yes. But here`s the thing. Authorities have never charged this guy with anything! They`ve said he`s their prime suspect, he`s their number one suspect. Years go by. He`s cooperative. He even goes back into the -- I`m sorry, he even goes back and talks with law enforcement about this case on his own volition. But still, no arrests have been...
GRACE: OK. I want to -- I want to cut the talk about no arrest yet. I want to talk about him claiming, Dave Mack, that she, the dead Juilliard co-ed, Sarah Fox, speaks to him from beyond the dead.
Now, there have been a lot of defendants in history, suspects, that claim they have dream-like trances, they get messages from beyond the grave of the murder victim, like O.J. Simpson. Remember when he had the big dream about how the murders went down? And oh, he was there! Then there`s Amanda Knox, also known as "Foxy Knoxy," who goes into -- has a dream, and she can describe to police all of the details of the murder from her dream.
MACK: Right.
GRACE: Now, this guy, Dimitry Sheinman, who has not been arrested, claims that Sarah Fox actually communicates him from beyond the grave. What do you know about that, Dave Mack?
MACK: Nancy, he put a picture of her in a glass tabletop so that he can see a picture of her every day. And he says that she winks at him, that she speaks to him, that she actually makes facial -- moves her face around and does all sorts of things to communicate with him every day, constantly in communication...
GRACE: OK, stop. I`m sorry. This is -- I`m, like, drinking from the fire hydrant here. Clark, did I just hear Dave Mack, well-respected syndicated talk show host, say that Dimitry Sheinman this girl winks at him, talks to him and tells her his secrets from beyond the grave and that she still loves him?
GOLDBAND: He did, Nancy. And the reason he did is because this is breaking news. It`s coming from "The New York Post." They were able to track this man down, and he said that he talks to her constantly. And Nancy, get this. He seems to have conversations and is apparently now a psychic healer!
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Jeff Gold and Robert Schalk. OK, first to you, Robert Schalk. He knows details that nobody else knows. Typically, that screams out, I did it. Who else would know that this young Juilliard co-ed was on her period? Who else would know that a stake was driven into the dirt between her legs? Who else would know that she had a broken rib?
And now she`s telling him from beyond the grave that she`s angry police haven`t found the real killer? The only person that talks about the real killer is O.J. Simpson and Scott Peterson. Thoughts?
ROBERT SCHALK, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, the thing about it for me is, so many times in criminal investigations, when individuals speak to law enforcement, law enforcement informs them of information, and they then tell law enforcement or confirm things to law enforcement that law enforcement already knew, and then they put it back on the witness and say...
GRACE: Would you just give me that scenario, please, Robert Schalk? How in the scenario, where they`re talking to this guy that is in this park where she`s found day and night with his aggressive Rhodesian ridgeback dog -- how would that come up in a conversation? Hey, did you know she was on her period?
SCHALK: It`s not a...
GRACE: How does that work?
SCHALK: It`s not part of a question. More of a statement.
GRACE: Put him up, please!
SCHALK: And the most important thing for me is, was this conversation...
GRACE: No, I want you to tell me, how does that happen? Because seasoned police officers do not divulge...
SCHALK: You`re making an assumption...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... from the scene.
SCHALK: Right. We`re making an assumption that seasoned police officers did this interrogation or did this interview. What...
GRACE: No, you`re making the assumption that the police told him these facts!
SCHALK: Secondarily to that. did they record it? Have they recorded it either audio or video to be able to release, to say, This is what he said versus what we said? Absolutely not. We haven`t received any portion of that interview. It was probably on sketch notes. It was probably -- we don`t know how long it was, the parameters of it.
GRACE: OK, Jeff Gold...
SCHALK: Did he ask for a lawyer?
GRACE: So Schalk`s response is, they didn`t record it. When I see a suspect that knows intimate details of the murder scene that nobody else knows, that`s a red flag. Do you not agree with that?
JEFF GOLD, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, of course I agree with it, but there is a scenario where this guy is sort of a neighborhood watchman and he might have gotten information from local cops on the beat that they just spilled their beans. I mean, come on. The local cops don`t necessarily keep things tight, like detectives do. It`s possible he found that out. It seems like he`s a nut, though.
GRACE: OK...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: A nut is not a defense under the law.
Clark Goldband, isn`t it true that this guy is trying to put the blame on somebody else, that when cops came to speak to him...
GOLDBAND: Right.
GRACE: ... he went over into the corner of his office, where he`s got a shrine to this girl, OK, a shrine to Sarah Fox -- repeat, he has not been arrested...
GOLDBAND: Right.
GRACE: ... not been formally charged.
GOLDBAND: Right.
GRACE: And what does he have, Clark, under the pile of rocks in his office?
GOLDBAND: According to "The New York Post," Nancy, it`s a picture of a man he believes is the suspect who did this. But get this. He apparently writes that man`s name inside an envelope, travels all the way back to where the crime happened, gives the envelope to law enforcement, and law enforcement says thank you and they let him go. So clearly, while this guy was named the number...
GRACE: (INAUDIBLE) question.
GOLDBAND: Yes.
GRACE: He says this -- OK, one last thing.
GOLDBAND: Sure.
GRACE: Clark, what can you tell me about when police go to visit him in his home? His wife is a successful architect. He`s basically living off her. They`ve got a huge Victorian home they share with their two children. They`re on easy street. What happened when police got there?
GOLDBAND: Well, Nancy, it`s been reported in "The New York Post" that there`s a massage table inside the home, among some other collectible figurines. There is a picture of this young woman who has died. He says he uses the photo, according to "The Post," to communicate with the woman. He`s trying to seek justice and find the true killer.
GRACE: But Clark, when police are talking to him, didn`t he say, She`s winking at me right now, she`s smiling at me, she`s making faces. Long story short, he claims she`s communicating to him from beyond the grave and that that is how he knows details about the murder that nobody but the cops and the killer would know.
When we come back, a young mom calls 911 to report her baby girl missing. The search for the baby commences, only to end when the tiny girl is found stuffed into a Puma white sports duffle, zipped shut and hidden in the back of Mommy`s locked car.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A Florida woman tells authorities she woke up and her 15-month-old daughter was gone. But her story doesn`t make sense, especially after police find the missing toddler zipped up inside a nylon gym bag.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And then later, a heart-breaking video goes viral of a little 8-year-old girl detailing how she`s bullied and attacked on the school playground, but nothing is ever done about it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: And now to Jacksonville. A young mom calls 911 to report her baby girl missing. Police find Mommy alone in her apartment, the door locked from the inside. The search for the baby commences, only to end when the tiny baby found stuffed in a white Puma sports duffle, zipped shut, then hidden in the back of Mommy`s locked car.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A Jacksonville, Florida, woman lands in legal hot water after she phones police and claims her 15-month-old daughter is missing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When they got there, police found the child in the gym bag in the back seat of Dasher`s car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police find the missing toddler outside in the woman`s car.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A 15-month-old baby girl stuffed in a gym bag.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Everyone, straight to Jacksonville. To Dan O`Donnell, anchor and reporter, WISN. Dan, so when police get there -- her parents had been in the home until about 3:00 PM that afternoon. There are multiple locks on the door, and the door`s locked from the inside of the apartment. Doors and windows, everything locked. No sign of a forced entry whatsoever. The search commences for the 15-month-old baby girl. Tell me what happened.
DAN O`DONNELL, WISN (via telephone): Well, police were apparently very skeptical because of what you said, that the locks were locked from the inside. They were very skeptical of her claim. They searched Ms. Dasher`s vehicle, the woman, the suspect, and found the baby inside a gym bag, zipped up inside that bag, a nylon on the outside bag with a plastic liner that measured just 18 inches by 10 inches by 10 inches.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: To Jacksonville. Police race to the scene when a 15-month-old baby girl is reported missing by her mother. Police get into the home and they find all the doors and windows shut and locked. No forced entry whatsoever. Now, the grandparents had been there until about 3:00 PM that afternoon. Nothing was unusual. Then she claims her baby girl goes missing.
The search commences, a desperate search it was, until ultimately, the baby girl is found stuffed into a white Puma sports duffle, zipped shut and hidden in the back of Mommy`s locked car.
Back to Dan O`Donnell, WISN. You said cops were skeptical when they got there, but why?
O`DONNELL: Well, because her story just wasn`t adding up. She was claiming that the child was taken from out of her crib, and then when the search commenced, as you said, the child was found in the duffel bag. Police went back to the mom, said, We found your child, she reacted very calmly, instantly arousing suspicion, as though she knew immediately where the child was.
GRACE: Stacey Newman, she reacted calmly? Now, of course, all the defense attorneys are going to say there`s no playbook for grief or anxiety, but I -- I find that very, very odd that the mom acted calmly, when they said, We found your baby, it`s stuffed in a duffel bag in your car.
STACEY NEWMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yes, she was very calm, cops say. And also, what did her in is she did tell police she was the only person who had access to the baby from 3:00 PM. So nobody else would have been inside that home.
GRACE: Greg Cason, psychologist joining me from LA, formerly of LA Shrinks. Greg, I don`t quite understand what`s going on here. Mommy clearly is the one, in my mind, that put -- stuffs the baby into a zippered duffel bag and puts it in her car and leaves it there, stuffed in the plastic bag -- and you heard the dimensions of it, like 10 by 10 -- and then calls police to report that her baby has actually been kidnapped.
GREG CASON, PSYCHOLOGIST: I think we have to look at this case as a case of neglect. Maybe this mother was on drugs, or maybe there was some other case that she just couldn`t stand her child crying, so she sticks it in a bag and sticks it in the trunk. It`s horrible, very, very bad mothering. This mother should not be a mother.
GRACE: OK, we have no evidence whatsoever that there are drugs involved, that the mom had ever used drugs, ever been involved with drugs. But what we do know is police now believe her story is a lie. We`ll stay on it out of Jacksonville.
When we come back, a 41-year-old teacher busted after months of sex with a girl student. But when he`s found out, the mother doesn`t report him to police and demand his arrest, she gives the teacher her blessing to marry her girl so the 41-year-old male teacher could avoid prosecution.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Illich Guardiola in handcuffs, dodging our questions as he was taken into the Harris County jail. The 41-year-old drama teacher is accused of having sex with a 16-year-old girl who was his student. Guardiola was a contracted drama coach at the Houston Family Arts Center.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Then later, heart-breaking video goes viral of a little 8- year-old girl detailing how she`s bullied, attacked on the school playground. But tonight, we confirm nothing`s ever done about it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: And tonight, live to Spring Valley, Texas. A 41-year-old male teacher busted for months of sex with a girl student. But when he`s found out, mommy doesn`t report him to police and demand his arrest, she doesn`t put her daughter in therapy. Instead, she gives the 41-year-old male teacher her blessing to take off to Vegas and marry her girl so he can avoid prosecution.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you have sex with a 16-year-old girl?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Guardiolo (ph) was the girl`s drama teacher at the Houston family arts center. The alleged victim and he were married in Las Vegas.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you go to Vegas to avoid prosecution?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I can`t believe, No. 1, that this happened. Look at that shot of him. But No. 2, the girl`s mother goes along with a rush job shotgun wedding in Vegas so he can avoid prosecution? I don`t understand that. With me is Adela Uchida, with News 92. Adela, thank you for being with us. What happened?
ADELA UCHIDA, NEWS 92: Well, Nancy, what happened is, this starts as the cops pulling him over for speeding in West Houston, which is a pretty nice part of town. The officer`s intuition tells him there`s something wrong here. He gets inconsistent statements from both of them. The girl doesn`t admit to any sexual activity at first; eventually she does admit to some sexual activity. A few weeks go by and he is charged and arrested, but in the meantime, yes, they went to Las Vegas and they got married. The mom was there. The girl is 16 years old. In the state of Nevada, 16 and 17-year-olds can get married if the parent is there in person to give consent. And that`s what happened.
GRACE: Is it true that police find a text message from the girl regarding having sex with the man, and, more important, that the girl`s mother was present and didn`t stop the wedding, because she feared harm to her daughter`s acting career?
UCHIDA: That is true on both counts. I got off the phone with the police chief of Spring Valley Village not too long ago to talk about that phone, and yes, indeed, there were text messages, indicating sexual activity. The chief didn`t know which came first, whether the girl had admitted to the activity --
GRACE: Well, didn`t she -- didn`t the girl tell police that she and her teacher were, quote, in love?
UCHIDA: Yes, the girl told the police that they were in love, she says that it was consensual, and that`s why she had gone along with it. Now, initially, keep in mind, yes, the girl`s mother was there in Las Vegas, but when that car was pulled over on April 14th, they called the girl`s mother and she was surprised that the two were on that side of town. She knew they were together, but Ilich Guardiola was supposed to be giving the girl a ride home, and the mother had no idea they were near his apartment.
GRACE: Okay, let me get all this straight. So, he`s busted having sex with the girl after the teacher, the 41-year-old male teacher is pulled over in this nice section you`re telling me about. The cops suspect something is not right, and then after some degree of questioning, the little girl says she`s in love with this guy, her teacher, the 41-year-old teacher? Then, the mom, to help him avoid prosecution, goes along with a quickie Vegas wedding so her daughter`s acting career won`t be harmed?
UCHIDA: That is correct. The mom goes along with it. But the teacher is still being charged for the activity that took place before the wedding. Remember, the girl admits to it, there are text messages, so this activity took place before the wedding. And that`s what he`s being charged with.
GRACE: Now, okay -- whether I like it or not, I know he cannot be prosecuted with any sex after the wedding. Now, herein lies the rub. With me, Adela Uchida. Is that the marital privilege. She cannot be forced or compelled to testify against her husband.
Now, this is something that this 41-year-old teacher may not have bargained for and that is that in some jurisdictions, there`s a caveat. There`s an exception, if domestic abuse or child abuse is what`s being protected.
Unleash the lawyers. Jeff Gold and Robert Schalk. What about it, Jeff Gold? He`s busted having sex with his girl student. He`s a 41-year- old dirty old man. I`ll just put it out there. The mom goes along with it, not to hurt her daughter`s acting career? Okay, that`s a whole other can of worms. Let me just save the mother for later. But they get married. Now, he`s going to invoke -- it`s not her that invokes it, it`s him, when he`s on trial, for child sex assault, he`s the one that invokes the marital privilege. What about it?
GOLD: Well, generally speaking, you`re right, there is an exception, when the wife is a victim, either of domestic violence or anything else. The marital privilege protects, for example, if he stole money and told his wife about it --
GRACE: But in this case.
GOLD: But if she`s the victim, which she is of statutory rape in this case, at least prior to the murder, then usually the --
GRACE: Prior to the wedding. A Freudian slip. I`m not going to tell your wife that you do murder and wedding --
GOLD: Right.
GRACE: Okay, but what about it, Schalk? He`s going to try to claim marital privilege so she can`t testify against him. And what about the mother?
(CROSSTALK)
SCHALK: Well, she`s murkied the waters. The mother actually helped out her new son-in-law on signing off for this marriage. The only other point I would make, is this cellular phone. How did they confiscate a cell phone during a random traffic stop? How did they look at the cell phone? Because if they`re going to build a case, it`s going to be circumstantial. Do they have a warrant? Do they have consent? Or did they just start going through the phone? If the text message goes away --
GRACE: How about this? Put up Gold and Schalk. How about if they said, can you look at your cell phone? And the person goes, sure.
SCHALK: Well, if he did that, he buried himself.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Michael Christian, what more do you know about this?
CHRISTIAN: He had access to a lot of young girls, not just the one he married. Police are thinking maybe he`s had inappropriate relationships with other young girls that we don`t know about. They have a number out there. They are asking people, if you know anything about this, call us, because it`s a possibility he`s done this before.
GRACE: Michael, why do I keep seeing pictures of this teacher with a microphone and up on a stage -- what -- what is he?
CHRISTIAN: Well, in addition to an acting teacher, Nancy, he does voiceovers, particularly for anime, Japanese animated films when they are being dubbed into English. He`s got quite a name for doing that. He`s got fans of that circle. So, that`s why you see so many pictures of him with microphones, because he does that for a living in addition to teaching drama.
GRACE: So, you`re telling me there may be other girl child victims out there, Michael?
CHRISTIAN: Well, certainly police would like to know that. They are not saying that`s out of the realm of possibility. And they are asking anybody who would know anything about that to call them.
GRACE: Okay, as it stands right now, he is not charged with any other offenses, but the fact that he may escape prosecution for this due to the girl`s mother trying to push along her acting career by letting her marry her 41-year-old drama teacher? Yes, that`s way out of whack.
To tonight`s case alert. The desperate search for a missing autistic boy vanishing in Maine. Last seen 3:00 p.m. Thursday, near his home in Waterboro. He`s 5`9, 140 pounds, blue eyes. Tip line, the public safety dispatch. 207-657-3030.
When we come back, the defense of Julie Schenecker takes center stage, but it falls apart on cross, when we learn mommy tells her little boy the gun was fake before she shoots him. And that it was all a revenge killing, a get-back at her husband.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the record, doesn`t it state that Miss Schenecker indicated she was drinking, having -- drinking ten drinks per day?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And then later, heartbreaking video goes viral. It`s an 8- year-old little girl detailing how she`s bullied and attacked on the school playground, but nothing is ever done about it. Well, that`s going to change tonight.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: A million dollar mansion, Tampa. A little girl at her computer doing homework, dead. Her little brother, still buckled into the minivan, dead. Cops find mommy lounging by the luxury pool in the backyard in a bloody house coat. Mommy says she shoots her children dead in the mouth because they, quote, talked back to her. The defense of Julie Schenecker takes center stage in the last hours, but it falls apart on cross. We learned how mommy tells the little boy the gun was fake, just before she shoots him. And we find out it was all a revenge killing to get back at her husband, who is working out of town. She wants the husband, Parker Schenecker, to come home and find the children`s dead bodies as a welcome home surprise. And then we learn mommy`s not mentally ill, she`s just drunk.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One thing she did tell you is that she recognized that when she pulled out the gun on Beau, that Beau was upset by that, correct?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Correct.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In fact, he was so upset he threatened to hit her, correct?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Correct.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then she told Beau that it wasn`t a real gun, correct?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She said it was a toy gun.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Recognizing that Beau saw it as a real gun, correct?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Correct.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And recognizing that Beau was frightened by the gun, correct?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t know that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Okay, straight out to Meredyth Censullo, joining us at the courthouse. Meredith, we also find out that Julie Schenecker was treated for depression, and that was fairly recently, and after a thorough, thorough examination, she was deemed to be not psychotic and safe to be released.
MEREDYTH CENSULLO, TAMPA REPORTER: That`s right. Just in the weeks prior to this -- these murders taking place, she was actually in a rehab center in Clearwater, Florida, not far from here, undergoing treatment for alcohol and drugs. And even then, they said that she didn`t appear to have psychotic tendencies, although she was severely depressed. Now, other experts argue that she really was in bad shape when she left this rehab and needed additional treatment, which she didn`t get.
GRACE: Well, who said that?
CENSULLO: Who said that?
GRACE: yes.
CENSULLO: The first woman on the stand today was a psychologist, and she actually testified that, in reviewing the records from Julie`s stay in that rehab, that she felt that she was in really bad shape.
GRACE: Let me get this straight. Oh, hold on, also I`m just being joined right now, Steve Helling, writer with People magazine. I`ve got Meredyth and Steve there. Steve, did you just hear what Meredyth Censullo said? The person that said Schenecker was in such bad shape had never even treated Schenecker. I had in my head that Schenecker was in rehab for depression. She was in rehab for alcohol and drugs. And the people that treated her in rehab did not find that she was psychotic, did not find this host of mental illnesses the defense is claiming. In fact, they gave her a clean bill of health for her booze and drugs. Then she gets out, gets boozed up again, and shoots her children. Do I have that story straight?
STEVE HELLING, PEOPLE MAGAZINE: You have that story 100 percent correct, Nancy. The first time that we really started to hear that she might have been, you know, insane enough that she wouldn`t know the difference between right or wrong was after the killings were done. Before that, her problems seemed to be more substance abuse than anything else. And, you know, the defense is trying to put on this case, and the prosecution just kind of torpedoed it, just under cross examination.
GRACE: Matt Zarrell on the story, what more can you tell us? This thing has been torpedoed on cross examination, I mean, what came out on the witness stand today is incredible.
ZARRELL: Yes, Nancy, two big points here. The biggest factor here is, did she know the difference between right and wrong? Well, when she went to the gun store five days before her quote/unquote massacre, she told the gun owner she lied to them and said the reason she was getting a gun was for home invasions. Now, she spoke to the psychologist after the murders and told her specifically that the reason she lied was because she knew if she told them the truth, they would not give her the gun, showing that she knew what she was doing was wrong. Also, statements afterwards to the fact and the journal entries, Nancy, that this was the worst thing I`ve ever done. The prosecution hammered it home.
GRACE: What about the fact that she wanted to get back at her husband? Meredyth Censullo joining us at the courthouse, she wanted her husband, Parker Schenecker, to come home and find her children`s dead bodies. For some reason, she got it in her head he was having an affair, or that he was going to divorce her, which is possible, and she didn`t want those children to be raised by Parker Schenecker and his made-up girlfriend she had in her head. She wanted him to be miserable. She wanted him to come home and find his children dead. Isn`t that true?
CENSULLO: And in fact, when he did visit her in the prison or in the jail, rather, right after her arrest, she said to him, I must have stomped your heart out, didn`t I? It really sounds like at least at some level, part of this was done to destroy Parker Schenecker, and it`s just --
GRACE: And she did.
CENSULLO: -- a horribly sad situation.
GRACE: To Dr. Bill Manion, medical examiner, joining me out of Philadelphia. Doctor, question, how can you tell if a gunshot wound, particularly to these children, Beau and Calyx, was at point blank range or close range?
MANION: Well, if it`s at close range, there will usually be gun powder burns on the surface of the skin, called stippling. So if they see red stippling, they will know that gun was probably a foot or 18 inches away. If it`s more than three feet away, there`s usually no stippling seen.
GRACE: Everyone, to see all the evidence from the Schenecker murder trial, including crime scene photos, go to our web site, hlntv.com/nancy.
When we come back, a heartbreaking video, I want you to see it, it goes viral. An 8-year-old little girl detailing how she`s bullied and attacked on the school playground. Nothing is ever done about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It makes me feel sad. Makes me scared.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know what you`re going through. I`ve been bullied on my bus.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: And tonight to Foster, Minnesota, a heartbreaking video goes viral. An 8-year-old little girl detailing how she`s bullied and attacked on a school playground. Nothing`s ever done about it until tonight. School officials at Magleson (ph) elementary, you need to be fired.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Makes me feel bad.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you tell me how many times you`ve been in and told the principal about it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Like, five.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Okay. Can you tell me what they`ve done about it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nothing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s video from the mother, Sarah Simblock (ph). For those of you just joining us, take a look at this video. This 8-year-old girl being terrorized on the playground and nobody at school does a thing about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Make me feel sad. Makes me scared.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I don`t like it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know. I know, sweetie. Can you tell me how many times you`ve been in and told the principal about it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Like, five.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Okay. Can you tell me what they`ve done about it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nothing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And how`s that make you feel?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sad.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When my sister, when she first got on, the bus driver said, you sit your [ muted ] down. Go in the front seat. And then at the end, this bully that always bullies us, he came right up, right behind, he bullies this other girl that`s a high schooler, and he said that she is a lesbian, the girl that he bullies. And so, and, this guy named -- on the playground said you`re going to die of suicide, called me a [ muted ].
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tell me what happened today on the bus on the way home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t want to.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ll tell. I`ll tell for her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t want to, mommy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Okay.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s video from the mother, Sarah Cymbaluk (ph). To Jay Thomas, host of the Jay Thomas Show on WDAY. Jay, you spoke to the mom. What did you learn?
JAY THOMAS: You know, I learned the frustration that this mother and the father are having. And myself as a father, kid`s grown up now, bullying has become so prevalent in our society. My heart breaks when I hear this. You know, Nancy, what I`m sick of? Here is what I`m sick of. I am sick of these schools with the same answer every time -- oh, we didn`t know. Really? You didn`t know when the girl came five times to your principal? The superintendent doesn`t know? The principal doesn`t make a phone call? Doesn`t do squat? Are you -- I was so mad, and I`m still mad that this is how this little girl is being treated. Has to go to school in fear. Are you kidding me?
GRACE: I`m just so distraught, Jay. What is the name of the school?
THOMAS: It is -- it`s called Magleson (ph) elementary school in Fostin, Minnesota.
GRACE: Look at this little girl and imagine if she was yours coming home crying from being bullied at school every day. Being cursed out, said that she`s going to die, that she should commit suicide. It goes on and on. And nothing`s being done about it.
Let`s stop and remember American hero, Air Force Staff Sergeant Timothy Davis, 28, Aberdeen, Washington. From a family of military vets. Bronze Star, Purple Heart. Loved fishing. Parents, Sally and Mike. Brother, Ben. Sister, Noelle. Widow, Meagan. Son, T.J. Timothy Davis, American hero.
Drew up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.
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