Return to Transcripts main page
Nancy Grace
Brad Pitt Attacker Walks Free; Nashville Mom Missing
Aired June 02, 2014 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, Hollywood. Beloved movie star icon -- think "Troy," "Mr. and Mrs. Smith," "Fight Club," "Meet Joe Black," "Oceans 11, 12, 13" -- Brad Pitt attacked! But in the last hours, the man that attacked Brad Pitt walks free!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The guy accused of hitting Brad Pitt on the red carpet has three years probation now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jumped the rope and struck the actor in the face.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His red carpet antics seem to be escalating.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Him slapping Brad is an escalation, when you start having physical contact.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, to the country music capital, Nashville. A gorgeous young mom mysteriously disappears. Tonight, where is Nichole Burgess?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators believe foul play is involved in the disappearance of mother and model Nichole Nicky (ph) Burgess.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People are very concerned.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police called to her home just outside of Nashville after a friend claimed the 37-year-old sent her some kind of disturbing text and couldn`t be reached again.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where is Nicky Burgess?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That is from ABC`S "GMA."
And now to Torrance, California. A father of three, outside working on the car, comes in, finds his three little girls dead in bed with Mommy clutching a knife. Carol Coronado, mommy of three, released from the hospital, goes to jail, Three counts of murder, one of attempted murder on her own mother as her husband, the father of the three girls, says his wife did not kill the girls, a demon did, and demands she be set free.
Bombshell tonight. As her three little girls laid to rest today, Mommy shows up in court in a wheelchair to plead not guilty, saying, I didn`t do it, even though we know she walks on her own from the murder scene.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Memorial services for the three little girls allegedly stabbed to death by their mother takes place today at the Green Hills Mortuary and Cemetery.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to thank everybody for their support.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He loves her and supports her and knows that this isn`t her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And Daytona Beach, a 32-year-old mom of three plows her minivan into the ocean as her three little children ages, 3, 9, and 10, all trapped, buckled in the Honda minivan, screaming, Mommy`s trying to kill us. Then Mommy gives birth to another child behind bars and demands custody of the new baby. As we go to air, ocean mom granted bail. She is a free woman tonight!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Our Mommy`s trying to kill us. Please help."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The mom took her vehicle and accelerated towards the water.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ebony Wilkerson (ph) spoke to the court about the things she has to live for.
EBONY WILKERSON, DROVE MINIVAN INTO OCEAN: I feel like I`m back to my normal self, and I`m feeling like my old self (INAUDIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. To Hollywood. Beloved movie star icon -- think "Troy," "Mr. and Mrs. Smith," "Fight Club," "Meet Joe Black," "Oceans 11, 12, 13" -- Brad Pitt attacked! But in the last hours, the man that attacks Brad Pitt actually walks free. I`m stunned!
To Kim Serafin, senior editor, "In Touch Weekly." Kim, walk free? What?
KIM SERAFIN, "IN TOUCH WEEKLY": Yes. He is getting three years of probation, this Ukrainian TV reporter, former Ukrainian TV reporter who was fired from his job, three years` probation, a year of psychological counseling. And he has to stay away from Brad Pitt. He has to stay away from Angelina Jolie. He has to stay away from all red carpets. He has to stay away from the Academy Awards, the Grammys. But as you mentioned, he`s basically walking free.
GRACE: Well, wait a minute! Wait a minute! Wait a minute! Again, Kim Serafin, I appreciate what you`re saying, but the bottom line is the man that attacked Brad Pitt in broad daylight has walked free and he`s given a slap on the wrist and told, Don`t do it again. Don`t do it again, Vitalii Sediuk.
But the reality is, this isn`t his first chance. This isn`t his first time at the rodeo. This is only escalating. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Notorious in Hollywood for his red carpet- crashing antics.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: America Ferrera was at the Cannes Film Festival...
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... snuck underneath her dress.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Will Smith took a swipe at the prankster after Sediuk tried to kiss Smith on the mouth.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... surprised Madonna with flowers at the Venice Film Festival, even crashed Adele`s Grammy win last year.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The troublemaker getting too close for comfort to Leonardo DiCaprio and Bradley Cooper at separate red carpet events.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK, so -- wa-wait! Let me just do a roundup of the stars that he has molested. Alexis Tereszcuk, senior reporter, Radaronline.com. What did he do with America Ferrera? What happened with her? This is the same guy. Alexis Tereszcuk, what did he do with America Ferrera?
ALEXIS TERESZCUK, RADARONLINE.COM: He was on the red carpet at the Cannes Film Festival, and he crawled underneath her dress. He tried to grab her physically. She was shocked. Her face looked so frightened, so scared. And he was just taken away, and nothing happened to him for that.
(CROSSTALK)
TERESZCUK: ... ten days later, and he`s in Hollywood.
GRACE: Wait. Alexis, how did he get in a position to look up under her dress? What exactly happened?
TERESZCUK: So he is a credentialed journalist. He was working for a Ukrainian television show. And so he was on the red carpet, and he just crashed through all of the security, all of the photographers, all the publicists, everybody that stands on a red carpet, and dove under her dress. It was an assault.
GRACE: OK, this is what I don`t understand. Unleash the lawyers, Hugo Rodriguez, defense attorney and former fed, Rene Sandler, defense attorney, Washington, D.C.
First of all, to you, Sandler. This is not his first attack on celebrities, OK? You heard the long list. Why is he getting probation again? I guarantee you, if some guy crashed into you, held his arm up your skirt and took a photo of your crotch, I would totally go to court and have him put in jail. Why is this guy any different? Why is he getting straight probation?
RENE SANDLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: First of all, what the judge did, Nancy, is took precautions to prevent future behavior. He has to have psychological testing. He`s banned from the red carpet. So the judge did something. Do you really think jail was the appropriate sentence?
GRACE: Yes, I do.
(CROSSTALK)
SANDLER: ... protecting the future?
GRACE: I think he should be put in jail, when he took a shot of America Ferrera`s skirts. Yes, I do. What about it, Rodriguez?
HUGO RODRIGUEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Unfortunately, Nancy, you and other celebrities don`t have any special status in the law.
SANDLER: That`s right. That`s right.
RODRIGUEZ: He slapped the guy.
(CROSSTALK)
RODRIGUEZ: We don`t put people in jail for slapping somebody.
(CROSSTALK)
RODRIGUEZ: We don`t put them in jail for slapping somebody.
GRACE: ... Sandler`s skirt, stuck his arm...
(CROSSTALK)
RODRIGUEZ: In France! In France! In France!
GRACE: I don`t care!
RODRIGUEZ: In France!
SANDLER: He`s banned from the carpet now. He has to be tested. It`s not going to happen again.
GRACE: Put them up!
RODRIGUEZ: If he violates...
GRACE: Put them up!
RODRIGUEZ: If he violates within three years...
GRACE: OK...
RODRIGUEZ: ... if he violates within three years...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Let me ask Liz a question. Liz, are their IFBs working? Can they hear? Because, Alexis Tereszcuk, there was more than putting his arm up America Ferrera`s dress and trying to take a picture on the red carpet. How many other stars, celebrities has he molested? And what I mean by that is a simple assault or worse.
TERESZCUK: He grabbed Will Smith on a red carpet. He kissed him on both cheeks. He tried to kiss him on the lips. This is an invasion of someone`s personal space, regardless of your gender...
GRACE: Wa-wa-wa-wa-wa-wa-wa-wait!
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Back it up! No! No, no! Back it up! OK, right there, Leonardo DiCaprio -- you know what? He`s got his face in his crotch, right there. He needs to go to jail. He needs to go to jail.
And you know what? Rodriguez and Sandler may laugh it off, but Justin Freiman, this kind of thing escalates. Who are other celebrities that have been stalked or attacked, Justin?
JUSTIN FREIMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Nancy, Miley Cyrus just recently had a break-in and her car stolen. She also has a stalker who said she talked to him through songs. And despite what the court has done, he still says he will try and meet her. Sandra Bullock has a restraining order against somebody who traveled across country looking for her. Paula Abdul...
GRACE: Yes, yes, yes. On that one, Justin -- on that one, the guy followed Bullock all the way to remote Tybee Island off the Georgia coast and stalked her there. He stalked her all across the country. Now, remember Paula Abdul. Let`s see Paula Abdul. Remember, she had the crazy fan that stalked her and finally committed suicide in front of her house. Abdul, haunted by that, finally had to sell her house and move out.
Who else, Justin?
FREIMAN: Nancy, there`s David Letterman. There`s also Uma Thurman, both of whom have been stalked multiple times.
GRACE: But the thing about David Letterman that disturbs me is this woman that was stalking him was going to his home, his private home where he has his wife and his little boy. But other stars have actually been harmed, Justin. Wasn`t Selena Gomez stalked, as well?
FREIMAN: She has been stalked, and her home has been broken into multiple times. There`s also Lisa Robertson from QVC. She says she lives in fear of stalkers. Madonna had a stalker, actually threw a knife at her...
GRACE: Now, wait a minute. Let me go back to Lisa Robertson. She has had three stalkers. And they have stalked her over the years. She`s the QVC queen. She can`t catch a break. She`s had male stalkers for years. And they follow her to public appearances. They show up.
They -- one of them was caught with engagement rings, multiple engagement rings strapped to his body so she could pick one, and they were going to get married right there on the spot. That`s how crazy he was.
OK. After her, after Lisa Robertson, wasn`t there a Madonna stalker?
FREIMAN: That`s right, Nancy. A Madonna stalker actually threatened to knife her. And Jennifer Aniston had a stalker that was caught laying in wait with a sharp object, a bag and duct tape.
GRACE: Catherine Zeta-Jones was stalked. Then, of course, Rebecca Schaeffer, "My Sister Sam" star, was actually murdered. She answered her door. She was murdered by a stalker. John Lennon murdered by a stalker. Not only that, Jodie Foster, her stalker, Hinckley, shot the president. So while Rodriguez and Sandler may laugh it off, this escalates.
I want to go back to one of the first celebrities that I can recall getting stalked, and that was Anita Bryant.
For those of you just joining us, the guy that attacks Brad Pitt on the red carpet -- he`s there with his wife, Angelina Jolie, his girlfriend, and their children, all their children, when he`s attacked on the red carpet. The guy walks free!
Now, the first person that I recall as a little girl was Anita Bryant, beautiful voice. And even if you don`t believe in her politics, which I don`t agree with her, look at what happened to Anita Bryant. Take that in full, please. Even if you disagree with her, you don`t do this to a lady, Anita Bryant. Look at what happened, the beginning of celebrity attacks.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The prankster who went one prank too far and lunged at Brad Pitt.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The infamous troublemaker stage-crashing the Grammys during Adele`s acceptance speech.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He accepted a plea deal for probation, agreeing to stay out of...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The man who attacks Brad Pitt on the red carpet in front of his children and Angelina Jolie, his partner, walks free. This is after numerous attacks on other celebrities. What`s going to come next? He`s out on straight probation, another slap on the wrist Hollywood-style.
Joining me, Lou Palumbo, bodyguard to the stars, director of Elite Intelligence and Protection, joining me out of New York tonight. Lou, I was in LA this weekend and conducted a lot of interviews with people that are on the red carpet. And they advised me that practically anybody can get into the throng of press on the red carpet, or right up to it, with those metal barricades. They`re, like, metal fences that you can poke your hand or -- there they are -- or your feet through. Anybody in the public can get up that close. They`re one inch behind the press. Look how close they are to the celebrities.
And I`m not saying celebrities are any different from regular people. But what I`m saying is this guy`s posing a threat, and he has walked free. How easy is it, if you get there early enough, Lou, to get right up on the press line?
LOU PALUMBO, CELEBRITY BODYGUARD (via telephone): Well, Nancy, it`s extremely easy. And you know, just so you know (INAUDIBLE) I did the Academy Awards. I did the Golden Globes for 14 years. I`ll be very candid with you. You know, we ran a different operation, but on a day-to-day basis, you can get into these events anytime you like.
GRACE: Look at this, crowds, hundreds, sometimes thousands of people thronging in on the red carpet. And what I don`t understand -- back to you, Kim Serafin. How many people has this guy attacked, assaulted, gotten close to, pulled a prank on? How many people so far?
SERAFIN: Several. I mean, obviously, the Will Smith incident was the one that got a lot of press, when he tried to kiss him in Moscow. Will Smith smacked him. There was the incident where he ran on stage at the Grammys, when Adele was accepting her Grammy. There was an incident where he gave flowers to Madonna. There was him groping Bradley Cooper on the red carpet, the Leonardo DiCaprio incident. So there have been a series of events with this same reporter, who is not a reporter anymore because he was fired.
GRACE: Well, here`s my thing. Lou Palumbo, did you see where he goes up to Will Smith and actually gets close enough to kiss him on the face, put his hands up around his neck, and Will Smith hits him back? I mean, when is it going to stop? I mean, this time, a lot of people are laughing it off because Brad Pitt, you know, didn`t end up going to the hospital. But the fact that a judge would let him walk free. And this is what, his fifth or sixth time, Lou?
PALUMBO: Well, you know, the problem, Nancy, is that he didn`t impose a stiff enough penalty for his actions. As you pointed out, this isn`t an anomaly. This is a pattern of behavior. And he should have been incarcerated and subjected to a psychiatric evaluation.
GRACE: To Christa Scherck, joining us, special guest out of LA, Christa the former publicist for Vitalii Sediuk, spoke with Sediuk after his release. Christa, what did he say?
CHRISTA SCHERCK, FMR. PUBLICIST FOR ATTACKER: I did. I spoke with him shortly that evening, after he was released, and he was surprised that the story had received as much attention as it did.
GRACE: He was surprised. How many times has your former client approached and/or offended celebrities?
SCHERCK: Well, the first year that he came to the U.S., it was really just about credentialing. He was a legitimate entertainment reporter.
GRACE: He is Ukrainian. He`s not even American. I don`t understand why he`s even in this country. Why would they even let him in after he shoved his arm up America Ferrera`s skirts to take a picture of her crotch? Why is he even here? That`s what I don`t understand. Can you enlighten me, Christa?
SCHERCK: Well, he is here on a journalist visa. He`s a member of the foreign press. I have editor-in-chief, an assignment letter, that I was using to credential him. And again, this was all very legitimate up until he crashed the Grammys. And that`s when it shifted from journalist to, you know, back into prankster mode, kind of the Will Smith days.
GRACE: I don`t know -- what -- what -- put her up, please, Christa! Why do you keep calling him a prankster? Christa, if a guy reached his arm up your skirt and took a picture of your crotch, do you think that`s funny? Is that a little prank? Because I would want him to go to jail if he did that to you.
SCHERCK: Yes, no. I definitely hear what you`re saying. You know, during Cannes, people were very upset and he was actually declining interviews.
GRACE: Oh, he was declining interviews? What does that mean to me? He needs to be in jail. And you`re telling me his only response after attacking Brad Pitt on the red carpet is he`s surprised people made such a big fuss about it?
SCHERCK: Well, that wasn`t his only response. I really don`t think - - you know, he told me he didn`t hit him. I think he really believes...
GRACE: He didn`t hit him? He didn`t hit him? Please roll the video of him attacking Brad Pitt because now his attacker, Vitalii Sediuk, that a judge has let walk free claims it never happened. Let`s see the video.
So let me ask you this, Alexis Tereszcuk, Radaronline.com. He went into court and he pled. What did he plead?
TERESZCUK: He pled no contest to battery, which to me is "I hit him."
GRACE: Everybody, the guy who attacks Brad Pitt on the red carpet pleads no contest. Bottom line, he`s not denying he did it, and he`s under sentence. But the judge lets him walk free. And it all started here, attacks on American icon celebrities with Anita Bryant, whether you agree with her political position or not. Look what happened to this lady.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Security. Security!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no. Let him stay. Let him stay.
ANITA BRYANT, SINGER/ACTIVIST: Well, at least it`s a fruit pie.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let`s pray for him right now. Anita, let`s pray. Anita, why don`t you pray? That`s all right.
BRYANT: Father, we want to thank you for the opportunity of coming to Des Moines, and Father, I want to ask that you forgive him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That we love him.
BRYANT: And that we love him. And that we`re praying for him to be delivered from his deviant lifestyle, Father.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Breaking news. To the country music capital. A young mother goes missing mysteriously. Brian Joyce, host of "Live and Local" at 102.3 -- Brian, tell me about Nichole Burgess. She goes missing, but her car has in it what, her cell phone and her pocketbook?
BRIAN JOYCE, "LIVE AND LOCAL" (via telephone): Yes, very unusual story. Nancy, I appreciate you having me on the show -- very unusual, very sad because you talk to the family and friends of Nichole Burgess -- again, 37 years old, she had a 10-year-old son, very bubbly personality, great mother, had a couple of dogs, and you know, lived in a nice part of Nashville, which is a great little city, and...
GRACE: Speaking of the dogs, Brian Joyce...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Speaking of the dogs, didn`t she leave...
JOYCE: ... purse was still in the car, very unusual.
GRACE: Isn`t it true that she left both of her dogs unattended, which is completely unlike her?
JOYCE: Yes, Nancy. That`s part of the reason, apparently, why family and friends contacted police because she`s not the type of person who would just, you know, go missing on her own, very responsible mom. She had two dogs. Apparently, the two dogs still inside the house, where -- again, according to her family and friends, very unusual. She would not just leave them behind like that.
GRACE: Everybody, take a look. Joining us, Brian Joyce with "Live and Local," tip line 615-742-7463, last seen Friday, reported missing Sunday.
What`s so intriguing about -- this and cops are now saying that they do suspect foul play. She adores her son, and she left her two dogs that she loved unattended, her cell phone, her pocketbook still in her car.
Brian Joyce, what can you tell me about a mystery text?
JOYCE: Yes. You know, we`re still getting the details on that text. Apparently, one of the friends who contacted police said that the last text she had received from Nichole she described as, quote, unquote, "disturbing." Now, what exactly that means, the police haven`t really released the details here. I think it`s the metro Nashville police who`s handling the case.
GRACE: Right.
JOYCE: But the friend says she received a disturbing text. We don`t exactly know what the details are. Other friends say that they saw a car in the driveway that...
GRACE: Well, you know what? Speaking of that car -- with me right now, David Underwood, joining me from Hermitage, Tennessee, neighbor of Nichole Burgess. David, thanks for being with us. And thank you, too, Brian Joyce.
David, what can you tell us about this mystery car? Everybody, a mother of a 10-year-old little boy has disappeared, her cell phone and her purse found behind in her car. Not only that, she left her dogs unattended. Police say foul play likely involved. David Underwood, what can you tell us about a car?
DAVID UNDERWOOD, NEIGHBOR (via telephone): Well, about the only thing I can tell you is that it was a dark gray car. It was backed up to the steps, which nobody ever does that because she lives on a hill. And it was there for -- well, my sister left at 7:00 o`clock last Friday night, and the car was still there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: And now to Torrance, California. A father of three outside working on the car comes in, finds his three little girls dead in bed with mommy clutching a knife. Carol Coronado, mommy of three, dubbed killer mom, released from the hospital, now in jail. Bombshell tonight, her three little girls were laid to rest in the last hours. Mommy shows up in court in a wheelchair, pleads not guilty, even though we know she walks on her own from the murder scene.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can hear my nieces crying and crying in the background.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coronado is being held on murder and attempted murder charges after police say she stabbed her three little girls to death and then tried to kill her own mother.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Memorial services for the three little girls allegedly stabbed to death by their mother takes place today at the Green Hills mortuary and cemetery.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: In the last hours those three little girls laid to rest. We learned tonight that Carol Coronado, dubbed killer mom, shows up in court in a wheelchair. But we know she can walk on her own. She walked from the home, from the murder scene, when she was taken into custody. We also know that she was first put in the hospital, but that her wounds were superficial. She was quickly moved to the jail. We also note she tried to stab her own mother. She is facing three charges of murder one, one attempted murder, this as the father of the three little girls, her husband, says she didn`t do it, a demon did. He doesn`t want his wife prosecuted. He doesn`t want her in jail. He certainly doesn`t want the state to seek the death penalty. But as her daughters are laid to rest there in a graveyard, in a cemetery, she grieves and now cries. She knows full well what she did. In fact, wanting to go to the funeral.
Matt Zarrell on the story. What can you tell me about the three little girls` funerals? Then we`ll talk about mommy in court.
ZARRELL: Yes. Well, obviously, Coronado, while she wanted to go to the funeral, was not present. They had three coffins. One was about five feet long, was light purple. Another behind it that was four feet long, that was pink. And a smaller one, maybe three feet long, that was white. They each had flowers that were purple and red roses and marigolds. The father was obviously there. He followed the coffins into the church. He was wearing all black. He had tears in his eyes. There were about 250 people that attended the funeral. The father cried a few times during the service. As they departed the church, he was leaning over as he walked with his hand on the white coffin, rubbing it with a black cloth. Each coffin was put in its own hearse and taken to the cemetery for burial.
GRACE: You know, you just said something to struck me. There was one coffin that was five feet long, and it was pale purple. There was another coffin that was four feet long that was pink. There was another coffin that was three feet long that was white. Just the visual on that, with the father walking his girls` bodies into the funeral service, walking their little bodies in just the last hours to be buried six feet under while mommy goes to court wheeled in in a wheelchair even though we know she can walk, and says to the judge, I am not guilty and says she fully understands all of her rights?
To Dave Mack, syndicated talk show host, she is now in the twin towers correctional facility. Let`s see a shot of where she is now. You know, at first, Dave Mack, I was convinced that this woman may out of all the mommies that commit crimes, that kill their children, she may actually have been insane because there seemed to be no planning aforethought. But now that I hear she`s trying to fake everybody else out coming in in a wheelchair when I know she can walk, saying coherently I understand my rights, I`m not guilty, that she`s showing remorse over what happened, she`s refusing to admit she did it, wanting to go to the funeral, Dave Mack, now, all of this, how can she be crazy last week but now she`s not, Dave Mack?
MACK: Hey, Nancy, they`re already laying the groundwork to say it was postpartum depression or that according to Rudy, her husband, that it was a demon inside of her. But in reality, you already pointed it out, Nancy, she`s conscious enough to know that she needs to get sympathy by getting in a wheelchair. Her three babies are now six feet under. And a week ago she wasn`t in control of her faculties, but she did try to kill her own mother when she came in to try to stop the madness. This is not a woman suffering postpartum. This is a woman who earlier in the day claimed that she was just getting ready to lose it, she was going crazy. Well, you know how little kids can be. They can get on your nervous from time to time. But that didn`t make me want to take a knife and kill all of my children, Nancy.
GRACE: With me right now, following up on what Dave Mack just had to say, Dr. Ramani Durvasala, a clinical psychologist. If you look at other moms who kill their children, you see a degree of planning. They buy a gun a week ahead of time, they lie about what happened, they prepare for the event, they lay the bodies out to be found, but in this case there was no preplanning. And for a moment there I was going with it. But now that I learned mommy behind bars, according to her own lawyer, is remorseful, she`s still saying I didn`t do it, she wants to go to the funeral, she kills the children, then she wants to show up at the funeral as they are interred, as they are buried in the dirt?
I don`t get it. How can you have postpartum -- No. 1, postpartum depression, it`s not going to be a defense to murder. All right? You have to be insane. Now, postpartum psychosis might work, but that`s not what her lawyer said. How can you be in a psychotic state one day and virtually the next day you`re fine?
DURVASULA: In postpartum depression you can have psychotic features. And so it is quite possible that on that day she did have a break from reality and that`s what was going on at the time of the killings and the attempted murder on her mother. So I do agree that this could be postpartum depression. I do agree it could be psychotic features. And I think it could also be why she seems somewhat lucid now and remorseful. I do think she`s genuinely remorseful. And I agree, Nancy, postpartum depression`s not going to work as an insanity defense.
GRACE: To Dr. Patchali Dar joining me from New York. Dr. Dar, thanks for being with us. Can you look at the children`s bodies and tell if there were defensive wounds?
DAR: I doubt the 2 1/2-month-old had any defensive wounds. How is this even possible? Maybe the older child tried to ward off some of the knife injuries. But these children are helpless. I mean, if an adult is overwhelming in strength and trying to kill any of these children, it`s very easy to kill a child of those ages. Very easy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are they alive or dead?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Before I killed them they went up to heaven to be with god.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you know what kind of condition they`re in?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A mother had killed their daughter, their children inside their residence.
She was getting messages from god to kill the boys.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They`re in heaven. They`re dead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can`t even describe what I`m going through. I mean, it`s -- my heart is -- it just aches so bad. I can`t sleep. I can`t eat. I can`t do anything but think about them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Well, I can describe what Susan Smith is going through right there. She was hoping nobody figured out that she buckled her children into the car and then drove them into the water. Yes. Susan Smith killed her children to get a new boyfriend.
Now, the difference between her and Julie Scheneker and other moms, this mom, Carol Coronado, dubbed killer mom, is they planned the incident. Unleash the lawyers. Rene Sadler from Washington. Rene, first to you. Here`s a mom who last week was in a psychotic state but suddenly she`s remorseful, she stands up in court and says I didn`t do it, I understand my rights, she speaks for herself, she gets wheeled in in a wheelchair even though we know she walked of her own volition from the murder scene. I don`t get it. How can you be crazy one week and then you`re sane the next week, Rene?
SANDLER: I don`t think -- first of all, you`re making an assumption that she is sane presently. She could be competent. She could understand her legal rights in court. But you don`t know if she`s medicated right now. You don`t know what her state is right now. It doesn`t change the features of a postpartum psychosis if that`s in fact what this is. I`ve tried those cases on both sides. And they`re very complex. We can`t just generalize it here.
GRACE: Okay. You know, you can keep saying how complex it is.
SANDLER: Yes.
GRACE: But you tell a jury that she`s crazy one week and she`s sane the next week -- Hugo Rodriguez, I appreciate it, Rene, but all three of us right here have tried homicide cases. So I know what I know. And I know that if she was crazy enough, Hugo, to murder her three children last week and this week she`s sane enough to stand up in court and go yes, your honor, I understand my rights, I didn`t do it, I`m not guilty, and express her own lawyer -- I`m talking to Hugo right now.
SANDLER: But it`s competency, not craziness.
GRACE: No.
SANDLER: It`s competency.
GRACE: We`re not talking about -- you know what? Cut her mike. Hugo. Competency is when you go to court and you cannot assist your lawyer at trial. That`s an incompetency hearing. Now, insanity means you didn`t know right from wrong at the time of the incident.
Now, Hugo, you may be able to talk us out of this. But if she was crazy last week when she killed her three kids, and this week she wants to go to the funeral, she`s remorseful, she tells the judge I understand my rights, I know what`s going on around me, I understand this proceeding and I`m not guilty, that sounds pretty sane to me, Hugo. How can you be crazy one week and sane the next week?
RODRIGUEZ: Nancy, you know it is not unusual in a post-traumatic situation, whether it be this, military, or in any other situation, to after the fact be very remorseful for your actions. That is not unusual. Two, I will bet you --
GRACE: I agree with that. Hugo, I agree with you.
RODRIGUEZ: Wait, she was -- okay. She was put in a wheelchair more than likely by the facility because of their liability issues because she does have a self-inflicted wound.
GRACE: You mean the jail?
RODRIGUEZ: I don`t think she was carrying out -- yes. All the time. Anyone who is injured or comes out of the facility will be put in a wheelchair. I don`t think this was done by counsel or done by her.
The fact that she said she understands her rights when she`s before the judge does not mean that she was not in a psychotic position at the time she carried out the acts. One has nothing to do with the other.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: And now to Daytona Beach. A 32-year-old mother of three plows her minivan into the ocean as her three little children ages 3, 9, and 10 all trapped, buckled into that Honda minivan, all screaming mommy`s trying to kill us. Well, guess what? Tonight, as we go to air, ocean mom has been granted bail and she is a free woman tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s leaving and I don`t want to chase after this car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ebony Wilkerson drove a minivan filled with her children into the Atlantic ocean.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Inside, three kids ages 10, 9, and 3.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A little kid in the back waving his arms around, like screaming, help, help us.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I feel like I`m back to my normal self and I`m feeling like my old self.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She is a great danger to herself.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you have any feelings that you wish to harm yourself?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, she got the kids in the car with her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Dave Mack. Dave, all right, she tried to kill her three children by driving them into the ocean. We already know she`s had another incident where she slammed into a car and killed a young mother. Okay? And she never went to jail for that. Now we`ve got this incident. She tries to kill the baby in her tummy behind bars. Take a look at this video. She even tried to fight off the good samaritans that saved her three children. Dave Mack, why does she get straight -- why does she get a bond?
MACK: Nancy, I`ve looked over this. I`m trying to find a reason. First her bond was set at $1.2 million. I mean, she`s looking at 15 years each, for each child, plus an additional five years for abuse. You`re looking at a total of 60 years in prison for killing three children plus one in her belly, and she got it lowered from $1.2 million to $90,000. She got out on an assurety bond with a couple of promises to the court. This is obscene justice, Nancy. I don`t get it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The first time that Jennifer and I had put the baby in the car, we had our baby 20 days before that. We were driving up to my mother`s house, you know, just for a nice weekend, and Miss Wilkerson was driving on the same road as us a little bit quicker, bouncing in and out of traffic and she ended up doing, like, the pit maneuver that you see on "Cops." She hit me right behind the back tire. She hit us and we did a couple 360s. We hit the exit wall. And then she kept driving.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: So as you could hear, that was not the first time this woman has attempted to or taken someone`s life. That was a young mom now dead because of ocean mom. Now she tries to kill her three children. Even trying to kill her baby behind bars. There you see Jennifer, dead, leaving behind this baby without a mom. Jennifer Sarver`s husband spoke with me. Now, she`s granted bail and has walked free.
Michael Christian, I don`t understand it. How can you kill one woman, a brand new mom, to leave her baby raised without a mother, try to kill -- there`s Jennifer -- try to kill your own three children, try to block the good samaritans that save your three children from drowning strapped in the minivan. Try to kill your unborn baby by beating her stomach behind bars, and then you walk free? How does that happen?
CHRISTIAN: You know, Nancy, in that 2007 incident you`re talking about where the other woman died, she was reportedly cited for improper lane change. She had her driver`s license suspended for one year and she was ordered to do 132 hours of community service.
GRACE: For killing somebody. For killing Jennifer Sarver, a brand new mom. All you moms out there, you know what I mean. Can you imagine dying, leaving your child to be raised without a mother? Your infant? That is what happened to Jennifer Sarver because of ocean mom Ebony Wilkerson. And tonight, she walks free. So, Michael Christian, what are the conditions on her?
CHRISTIAN: She must stay in Volusia County, which is Daytona Beach while she`s awaiting trial, and that`s not scheduled yet. She must continue to see a psychiatrist or a psychologist. And this is the big one, she can have no contact with her children. She`s also required to do weekly reporting and she has to prove that she`s taking her medication.
GRACE: So ocean mom walks free after trying to drown her three children. This after she claims the life of a young mother, Jennifer Sarver.
Let`s stop and remember American hero, Army Staff Sergeant Kevin Grieco, 35, Bartlett, Illinois. Bronze Star, Purple Heart, loved the outdoors. Parents Ralph and Linda. Sister Jennifer. Wife Rashmi (ph). Children, Joshua and Angela. Kevin Grieco, American hero.
Drew up next. Everyone, again, I want to thank you for being with us tonight. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.
END