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Nancy Grace
New Details in 12-Year-Old Stabbing
Aired June 04, 2014 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Wisconsin. An innocent sleepover with three 12-year-old girls turns deadly when two of the girls obsessed with on-line sci-fi stories, fantasy characters found on a bizarre Web site, lure their 12-year-old little friend to play hide and seek, then hold her down, stabbing the child 19 times, all in a freaky bid to please a magical fantasy creature, Slenderman, then after the horrific stabbing of the 12-year-old little friend state, Part of me felt remorse, part of me didn`t.
Well, since they`re going to be tried as adults, the two 12-year-old girls will have plenty of time to sort all of that out behind bars.
Bombshell tonight. We learn the parents of one of the alleged attackers, Morgan Geyser, proudly post their daughter`s creepy drawing of Slenderman, had e-mail addresses such as I love evil and 666, and Instagram feeds. Also, they`re def metal fans?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say Geyser and Weier plotted for months the best way to kill their friend.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She said she`s having trouble breathing. She said she was stabbed multiple times.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The motive, say police, to win the favor of a fictional Internet horror character called Slenderman.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was within a millimeter of her life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live, Sterling, Colorado. At this hour, gruesome details emerging in the slaughters of 70-year-old devoted grandparents Charles and Shirley Severance. Tonight, police hone in on none other than their own teen grandson, Brendan Johnson, and his teen lover, Cassie Rieb. Even though the grandmother, Shirley, begged for her life, offering the two teen lovers money, her own grandson shows no mercy, repeatedly stabbing his grandmother to death as she begs. Tonight, was it all over money?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Colorado police say a teen and his girlfriend murdered his grandparents. Cops found the body of Johnson`s grandmother, Shirley, in one location about 18 miles from the home, and another location at least 30 miles away. Police say it was Johnson who actually called for help the day his grandfather died.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And Indiana. Did a mild-mannered piano teacher shoot her husband 10 times, then hide his body in a padlocked toolbox, first telling police her husband was attacked by a dog?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This ex-wife allegedly shoots her ex-hubby 10 times and locks his body in a box!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say Raymond`s (ph) body was found decaying in this metal box.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A box cops claim is swarming with flies!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live, Oxnard, California, a 7-year-old girl snatched from Marina West elementary school. Tonight, where is 7-year-old Nadine (ph)?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A 7-year-old California girl is snatched from her elementary school. Police believe the child has been abducted and fear she may already have been taken from Ventura County. Please help us find Nadine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. Live to Wisconsin. An innocent sleepover with three little 12-year-old girls turns deadly when two of the little girls, obsessed with on-line sci-fi stories, fantasy characters found on some bizarre Web site, lure the 12-year-old little friend to play hide and seek. Then the two hold her down, stabbing the child 19 times, all in a freaky bid to please some magical fantasy creature, Slenderman -- here he is -- after the horrific stabbing of their little friend stating, Well, part of me felt remorse, but part of me didn`t. Well, since they`re going to be tried as adults, they`ll have plenty of time behind bars to sort out their conflicted feelings.
Bombshell tonight. We learn the parents of one of the attackers, Morgan Geyser, proudly post their daughter`s creepy drawing of Slenderman on line. They`ve got e-mail addresses like I love evil. They put 666 on the end of them, Instagram feeds similar. They`re def metal fans.
How did that influence the daughter? Did it influence the daughter? I don`t know. But what I do know is that we are live on the scene there in Waukesha, and with me right now, CNN national correspondent Miguel Marquez.
Miguel, thank you again for being with us. It`s still so hard for me to look -- take him in full, please -- because what you see is this bucolic setting. You`re out in the middle of this forest. There`s a dirt road covered in stones. You`d never think that two 12-year-olds conspire for months to murder their 12-year-old little friend.
Miguel, thanks again for being with us tonight. What have you learned?
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, a couple of things happening here right now. One, there is sort of a memorial or a tribute here to the young woman, who is still fighting for her life, although police and others tell us that she is doing better. She was able to walk today. She was able to talk a little bit to investigators. So she`s getting stronger and stronger, and it looks like she will make a full recovery.
The other thing I can tell you is that the park where this began is several blocks this way. The woods here is where they went in for this game of hide and seek. It is several blocks through here. After stabbing her 19 times, they tried to trick her into laying down and staying still so that she wouldn`t attract attention and that they could get away and go to what they believe was Slenderman`s mansion...
GRACE: Miguel...
MIGUEL: ... in this national forest up in northern Wisconsin.
GRACE: Miguel...
MIGUEL: Yes, Nancy? Yes, yes?
GRACE: Miguel Marquez, I learned another reason they told her to lay down after stabbing her was in the hopes that she would bleed out, bleed to death.
MIGUEL: Oh, absolutely. That was -- that`s exactly what they believed that would happen. They were pretending to be her friend to the end, leaving her in those woods in order to bleed and die while they went off to what they believed was Slenderman`s mansion in the Nicolet National Park up in northern Wisconsin -- shocking, shocking stuff.
GRACE: Well, you know, you`re saying the little girl is alive tonight, Miguel Marquez.
Everybody, we`re taking your calls. I`m going to get right to you. Hold on, Taylor in New Jersey.
Miguel, the little girl is still alive tonight, of course, due to the doctors and nurses taking care of her. But actually, Miguel, I think it`s a miracle. This child -- not those two. Those two are the alleged perps. We`re not naming or showing you a photo of the little girl that was stabbed.
The doctor said she was one millimeter from death. She was -- next to her, I believe, femoral artery stabbed that close. She would have bled to death in about a minute-and-a-half with her blood gushing out -- pancreas, liver, heart. Those were some of the vital organs that were stabbed.
MIGUEL: She was laying right about over here when the bicyclist found her in this area. When he got on with 911, you can hear the urgency in the 911 operator`s voice and the bicyclist`s voice, that she is very weak. She can barely talk. She can talk in "yes and no" sort of answers. This was a young girl who was on the verge of death. It is incredible that she survived the horrific 19 stabbings that she did, Nancy.
GRACE: For those of you just joining us, these two 12-year-old little girls had been planning this for months that we know of -- I think longer, closer to a year, Miguel thinks a couple of months -- after they get sucked in to some Creepypasta Wiki Web site, I think is the name of it, where they have a fantasy sci-fi character named Slenderman -- Slenderman.
To Meg McKenzie, news anchor there at WISN. In just a moment, we`re going to be joined by the Waukesha County district attorney, Brad Schimel. But Meg, what do we know about Slenderman? What -- I mean, I`ve seen the photos. I`ve seen the drawing.
And let`s show them, Liz, if we`ve got it, the drawing that her father posted. She drew Slenderman. He was so proud of her drawing this psycho character, he actually -- there it is. He posted this on line. She had drawn it on a napkin with a crayon. They were out to dinner. And he was so proud of it, he posted.
Oh, I hear Meg. Go ahead, Meg. What do we know about the lure of Slenderman?
MEG MCKENZIE, WISN (via telephone): Slenderman is a fictitious character developed back in about 2009 by someone. It got picked up by Creepypasta and sort of morphed into a much larger-than-life character. And there`s a lot of mythical beliefs surrounding it. And you know, these girls weren`t the only young people that wonder if Slenderman is possibly real. You can see it in the stories on Creepypasta. There are games surrounding this character.
GRACE: Well, wait a minute. Wait, Meg McKenzie. Hold on. I mean, when we`re showing these pictures -- back up to that other one, Liz, if you don`t mind. When children see these pictures, they look real. Not that one -- it was the one where he was kind of coming through the woods.
And a lot of times, my children will watch a movie. Let me think of one, "Home Alone," all of them. They say, Is that real? And I go, yes, that`s real. It really happened. Or they see, you know, a Disney movie and they want to know if it`s real. And I let them live in a fantasy world where everything is wonderful and everything has a happy ending.
And if a kid looks at this, Meg McKenzie, they may very well think it`s real. It looks real.
MCKENZIE: Sure. Absolutely. I have three children myself right about the same ages as these three girls, and they knew of the Slenderman character, the game, the games that are out there surrounding Slenderman is -- it`s in a first person format, where the child playing the game is walking through forests and walking into buildings, collecting these notes. And actually, Slenderman comes up behind you, if you`re playing the game. And then sort of its tentacles come out around you, and then the screen goes to static, like you`d see on, you know, black and white static on TV.
So all of that, these very realistic-looking pictures, the fact that you`re playing these games in the first person with Slenderman coming at you from behind, all kind of blur the line between reality and fantasy, and that`s what the attraction these girls found to it.
GRACE: I`m just trying to take in what all these girls were actually learning on line. Hold on. Before I go to Brad Schimel, the district attorney in Waukesha, Miguel Marquez, you are learning by the minute really, by the hour, more and more facts. What else have you learned?
MIGUEL: Well, look, these young girls were clearly completely sucked into this world. The other piece of this is that because it is on line, they were continually not only looking at this on either home computers, but possibly school computers. The school has now also blocked Creepypasta from the school. They are reviewing it. Keep in mind, this is a writer`s sort of Web site...
GRACE: Right.
MIGUEL: ... and not necessarily something where, you know, these individuals are doing -- is only Slenderman. There are many, many things written on this site. And these girls were basically -- you know, were getting into this in very many different ways.
GRACE: Everybody, not only myself but Miguel Marquez, Meg McKenzie and Brad Schimel all taking your calls.
I want to address -- in the last days, we here have covered the illegal attack on Brad Pitt as he walked the red carpet with Angelina Jolie and their six children. During that coverage, we touched on many other celebrities that have been attacked. And one of them was Anita Bryant, who was hit in the face with a pie at a public event.
And it is well known that Anita Bryant held an anti-gay rights position. It has come to my attention that since our Brad Pitt segments, I and my staff have come under attack for including Bryant as an example, somehow extrapolating that I, we, are anti-equality for gay Americans.
Nothing could be further from the truth. As a matter of fact, let me address you, my detractors. I was prosecuting attacks on gay men and women, gay Americans, as far back as the `80s, before it was ever called a hate crime. I was in the trenches for over a decade defending gay crime victims, along with other crime victims. Many a time, I went to my car after a long day in court to find the tires slashed or the windows busted out for defending crime victims, which included gay crime victims. So your unwarranted attacks have been very hurtful to me and to my staff.
And as to our segment the other night, please listen carefully to what was actually said that night, as opposed to the hateful attacks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I was just talking about one of the first celebrity attacks I ever saw, and it was on a singer, like, a Christian singer, Anita Bryant. And yes, she had a lot of political views that I don`t agree with, a lot of people don`t agree with. But she was a lady. And that`s the first time I remember this happening. That was in my childhood. And it seems to go on and on and get deadlier and deadlier.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And if you didn`t hear it that time. Here it is again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Now the first person I recall as a little girl was Anita Bryant -- beautiful voice. And even if you don`t believe in her politics, which I don`t agree with her, look at what happened to Anita Bryant. Take that in full, please. Even if you disagree with her, you don`t do this to a lady. Anita Bryant -- look at what happened, the beginning of celebrity attacks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I don`t care who you are, where you`re from, what color you are, what language you speak, or what God you worship. If you are a crime victim, I defend you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Everybody, we are live in Waukesha with Miguel Marquez, CNN national correspondent. And now joining me, special guest Brad Schimel. He is the Waukesha County district attorney.
Brad, thank you so much for being with us.
BRAD SCHIMEL, WAUKESHA COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY (via telephone): Hi, Nancy. Thank you for having me on.
GRACE: You know, Mr. Schimel, this has just -- just really disturbed me. I have a little -- twins, boy, girl. And my little girl, who is almost 7, is always wanting to have sleepovers. And when I heard this, I - - I -- I just can`t believe the level of depravity in a 12-year-old child.
Why did you decide to charge the two as adults?
SCHIMEL: Well, actually, under Wisconsin law, there`s direct jurisdiction in adult court for anyone charged with attempted first degree intentional homicide. And if the allegations in the complaint are true, well, that`s what we have here. So this is where we start.
There is a potential to have the case moved back into juvenile court. The defense would have to file a motion to do that, and it would be their burden of proof to accomplish that. My office intends to resist that.
Among the things to balance are, of course, on one side, the age of the children and their lack of prior record. But on the other side is the very, very serious nature of these allegations, the fact that they`re premeditated, rather than something that was impulsive or in the heat of passion, and then, of course, that the juvenile system has a very limited time in which we could work with them.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Straight back out to Miguel Marquez, CNN national correspondent there on the scene in Waukesha, where the 19 stabs on a 12- year-old girl went down.
Miguel, where were the parents when the girls were out stabbing a 12- year-old girl in the woods?
MIGUEL: Look, this was something that was set up during their birthday. This was -- they were all at the parents` home. The parents said, Go play in the park, and that`s when they put this evil plan into action. They first tried to kill her the night before, while she was in her sleep. They were going to duct tape her mouth and then stab her in the neck.
And there was a bathroom in a park nearby here. They were going to put her in that bathroom and cut her there, so that she would bleed into the drain they saw there. Their third plan was to take her into the woods here, and then -- which is -- it started off very slowly. They were fighting with each other as to who would do the actual stabbing, Morgan Geyser actually telling the police during the interview that once it started, it was just "Stabby stab stab," in these woods. And then...
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa!
MIGUEL: ... that young victim...
GRACE: Wait a minute! Wait a minute!
MIGUEL: ... was able...
GRACE: I take it those are the 12-year-old girls` language and not your own? It was "Stabby stab stab"?
MIGUEL: That is -- that is -- that is the language of a 12-year-old girl. To read the information in that police report is chilling for how childish some of the talk is in that. But that`s the level they took it at, even these little girls saying, Why is it that I feel no remorse? Part of me wanted her to die, part of me wanted her to live. The separation from anxiety is shocking!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: And now live, Sterling, Colorado. At this hour, gruesome details emerging from the slaughters of 70-year-old devoted grandparents Charles and Shirley Severance. Tonight, police are honing in on none other than their own teen grandson, Brendan Johnson, and his teen lover, Cassie Rieb. Even though the grandmother, Shirley, begs for her life, offering the teens money, her own grandson shows no mercy, repeatedly stabbing his own grandmother to death as she begged him. Was this all about money?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators have arrested a 19-year-old and his girlfriend, accusing them of murdering his grandparents.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shirley and Charles Severance both found dead. Charles was discovered inside the house.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say the body of Charles`s wife, Shirley, was discovered in two separate locations.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They seemed like a very happy older couple that`s just living out their lives.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now the couple`s 19-year-old grandson Brendan Lee Johnson, and his girlfriend, 18-year-old Cassandra Rieb, are being held on murder charges.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Randy Corporon at KLZ. Randy, it`s almost too much for me to take in when I read the details that have just emerged in the last hours, this is all over some inheritance? They go in and try to strangle the grandmother Shirley, and when that doesn`t work, he stabs her to death? She`s saying take the money, take money, just please leave me alone. Why are you doing this to me? Even with the grandmother begging him, he still stabs her to death? Is that what police are saying, Randy?
RANDY CORPORON, TALK SHOW HOST: Yes, Nancy, that`s very, very close. You couldn`t write this in a Stephen King novel. Apparently the stabbings failed, and this 19-year-old grandson says he ultimately strangled his grandmother with a string.
GRACE: You know, do we know right now, Randy, how many times the grandmother was stabbed? I understand they tried to slit her throat but instead slit her jaw and she lived?
CORPORON: Yes, the details are just emerging. But, it looks like stabbing after stabbing after stabbing. She was pleading with them to stop during the stabbings. When stabbing didn`t do it, he took a string and believes that strangling with her with the string is what actually killed her. That`s what Johnson himself said.
GRACE: Let`s take a look at what we have learned as to what the two said. The teen lover says, the plan was to kill them so we could get their inheritance. That`s just part of what we are learning. I`m looking through our legal documents, and finding out the motivation was all about money. Matt Zarrell, what do we know?
ZARRELL: What happened was the grandmother while she`s being attacked asked them why are you doing this to me? And according to Rieb, the girlfriend, the teen guy allegedly responded, you know why.
GRACE: Everyone, this is not the first time that children or teens have turned on parents and grandparents. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 17-year-old Tyler Hadley beat his parents to death with a hammer. Then threw a party featuring beer bongs, cigars and booze while mom and dad`s bodies were still in the house.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Vincent Parker was a tenth grade honor student, killed his parents because they took away his iPod.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Daniel Patrick shot both parents, killing mom and wounding dad because they wouldn`t let the teen play Xbox`s Halo 3 video game.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 13-year-old boys from Sheboygan Anthony Barbeau (ph) and Nathan Popp (ph)--
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Charged with killing Barbeau`s great grandmother.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Killing her with a hammer and hatchet, stealing her car, and dumping it in a bowling alley parking lot, then going out for pizza.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sarah Johnson shot and killed her parents because they were unhappy about Johnson`s relationship with an older man. Born with silver spoons in their mouths, Lyle and Erik Menendez brutally shot and killed their wealthy parents in their Beverly Hills mansion, which was turned into a horrific bloodbath.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, Danny Cevallos out of New York, Peter Odom joining us out of Atlanta. First to you, Peter Odom. You know, every time I tried a case, and there was a statement, the first thing the defense, that would be you two, would say, oh, that`s not what happened. No. 1, that`s not their signature where they signed on this statement. And No. 2 if it is, they don`t know English, and No. 3 if they do know English and it`s their signature, that`s not really what they said.
Well, guess what, gentlemen, it`s on video. They took the statement on video.
ODOM: Well, Nancy -- and the first thing the lawyers are going to do is try to get that statement suppressed. And that`s because that`s what we do. We have to defend our clients. And Nancy, a statement by a client -- an incriminating statement is the most powerful evidence that can be presented in a courtroom, so we do everything we can to try to get rid of them.
GRACE: Actually you choose to do what you do. It`s not like you were born --
ODOM: Proudly choose.
GRACE: -- to become a defense attorney.
ODOM: Proudly choose to defend our Constitution.
GRACE: Okay. You know what? Own it. It`s all yours.
ODOM: Proudly, Nancy, thank you.
GRACE: Peter Odom, you are -- if you want to take that as a compliment, feel free.
ODOM: I do.
GRACE: To you, Danny Cevallos, it`s on video. How could they possibly get these statements suppressed? Because, I`m looking right at the statement. And they say that, oh, they just really -- they`re really in the mud here. And it`s getting deeper. They`re sinking. They lied -- their lives become very complex, Cevallos. They say that the checks that they stole were actually given to them. Given to them by the grandparents. Then they`re driving around in their white 2009 Chevy truck, they then say, oh, yes, they gave me the truck. It goes on and on and on. So their lies are not just about what happened, but leading up to it, everything they say is a lie.
CEVALLOS: Yes, well, Nancy I love how you talk about videotaping interviews, or really interrogations, as if there`s some justice development that is always worse for the defendant. Frankly, defense attorneys are glad that the police are starting to finally videotape interviews, because before, they would ask a question, and then just write down whatever the heck they felt like writing. Now in a video, it doesn`t look that good on video, to be sure. I have to concede that.
GRACE: Did you say --
CEVALLOS: But there are many other things that go into the voluntariness of the statement.
GRACE: (inaudible) before you go into being set up. Take a look at this tweet. Am I allowed to murder people? No? Darn. I hate people. But really, I just want to see a dead body, don`t you?
Ouch.
CEVALLOS: Yes, well, people put dumb things on Twitter. If you can`t --
GRACE: I don`t think that`s dumb. I think that`s something called, let`s see, evidence!
Dr. Tim Gallagher joining me, medical examiner, forensic pathologist out of Daytona Beach. Dr. Gallagher, thanks for being with us. You know, randy Corporon from KLZ says that the cause of death on the grandmother -- both grandparents dead. Loving and devoted grandparents. By a string around the neck. I read other reports she was stabbed to death. But, the reality is, I`m sure Randy is right, but when you get an elderly person, how can you tell if they were, with stab wounds, strangulation, possible heart attack, how can you tell, Dr. Gallagher, what`s the cause of death?
GALLAGHER: Well, thanks for having me, Nancy. That`s a very complicated question, and it does require an autopsy. The first thing you want to check for is ligature marks around the neck. You know, you only need about 12 pounds of pressure on the neck to cause the brain lack of oxygen and to cause death that way. You could look at the muscles of the neck and look for bleeding within the muscles, and that would give you a good indication that there was a lot of pressure on that neck. You want to look at the heart, as well. Sometimes a lot of this drama that precedes the attack, or happens during the attack, can cause an existing heart condition to become worse. And then lead to a heart attack, as well.
GRACE: I`m reading, Dr. Gallagher, from the police reports. Matt Zarrell, it says the grandmother tried to run out of the house. She got out on the front door to the steps. He pulled her back in, afraid she may have yelled. Pulled her over by the safe in the living room. That`s no coincidence, Matt, that she`s by the safe, where they kept money and checks, and began to stab her. She begged him, offering money, and then as Randy Corporan correctly said, they put a string around her neck, and that is, you`re right, Randy, that is what finally killed her. Then they moved the bodies to the back in the bedroom, left them there for a day, came back Wednesday night, moved the bodies, poured gas on the bodies. I mean whoa, wait, wait. Poured gas on his grandmother and grandfather`s body, Matt Zarrell? Did I read that correctly?
ZARRELL: Yes, he used a propane torch to set her on fire and tried to cut off her arm and her leg while her body was burning.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: We are live in Colorado. See these two? A teen grandson and his teen girl lover. Now, the primary focus of a police investigation into the brutal murder of Brendan Johnson`s own grandparents. 70-year-old Charles and Shirley Severance. Unleash the lawyers, Peter Odom and Danny Cevallos, you know, hook me in to Matt Zarrell, too, if you could. I`m just reading the details and all of the police documents I`ve got in my hand. The grandmother was crying and begging. And begged for something to drink. The grandson let her go to the kitchen, let me see the lawyers, please, to the kitchen faucet, and she was leaning over to try to drink water. That`s when he tried to slit his grandmother`s throat. Think about it. Letting your grandmother lean over to the faucet, and then coming up from behind her, and slitting her throat. What about that, Cevallos? That`s plenty of time for premeditation.
CEVALLOS: Oh, it`s definitely a lot of premeditation. So I guess the next move for the defense is going to have to be --
GRACE: Insanity?
CEVALLOS: -- considering his mental state. You have to concede certain things. We`re not in court, but I can tell you that is clearly, you know, evidence that`s not going to look good.
GRACE: I want you to hear this, too. These are quotes from Rieb, the teen lover, and from Brendan Johnson, the grandson, and you know, I love your poker face. You know what? You know, Peter Odom, because when you listen to these horrific details, and you have that expression like, oh. You know, you look like you`re just waiting for the light to turn green.
ODOM: Just my expression, Nancy.
GRACE: Fine, you`re listening to a public radio broadcast.
ODOM: Sorry if you don`t like it.
GRACE: -- on the economy. Listen to this. The plan was to kill Roger and Shirley, so we could get their inheritance.
ODOM: Uh-huh.
GRACE: That he would get his grandparents` house and $20,000 from their checking account. His grandma didn`t work. She was laying on her stomach. I couldn`t get to her face. His grandfather was stronger, and, like, they ended up fighting. I`m reading this straight from what they said.
ODOM: Well, are you taking what the girlfriend said at face value? I mean, isn`t she charged here as a co-conspirator?
GRACE: They`re both saying it.
ODOM: Well, you`ve got to consider the source. Nancy, I know you were a prosecutor --
GRACE: Your clients. That`s the source.
ODOM: And I`m hoping that you have a degree of skepticism that`s not going to let you just take what co-defendants say at face value as the truth.
GRACE: They`re both saying it. And I say try them together and let them get in the same pot and stew. You know what, I don`t have to believe that.
ODOM: At least, Nancy, don`t you at least want to know what the physical evidence corroborates before you take what these two crooks say?
GRACE: I was going to say I don`t have to believe them because Randy Corporan is going to tell me about the crime scene. The forensics, and another thing, you can`t have it both ways. You can`t have your cake -- can I see them, please? Have your cake and eat it, too. Because you want to say, no. You can`t believe them when they`re implicating each other. But, yes, believe them when they say they`re mentally ill. Yes, all right. I`ll let you figure out that conundrum. Randy Corporon, what do we know -- now it`s funny. What do we know about the crime scene?
CORPORON: Well, they worked very hard to clean it up, and this seems to be according to their very own statements, including one of these, the young girl, who admitted some of these things during a polygraph.
GRACE: Everybody, you are seeing the grandparents` home, where 70- year-old grandparents Shirley and Charles Severance, were brutally murdered, we believe at the hands of their own grandson. Matt Zarrell, what more do we know about the crime scene? I understand there was a cleanup. But does the crime scene support their own story as to what they did?
ZARRELL: Yes, Nancy, it does. Police believe that this is the facts as it`s presented, as they`re presenting it in this affidavit.
GRACE: Everyone, I want to tell you about a case alert. It`s in Putnam County. Sheriffs there are asking for donations to find the suspect who murdered another elderly couple, 88-year-old Russell Dorman found beheaded at the couple`s lakeside home. Two weeks later, his wife, grandmother Shirley Dorman`s body, recovered in that lake. Sheriff Howard Seals hoping a cash reward will bring in tips. Donations can be made at any branch of People`s Bank. Anyone with information, call Putnam County sheriff, 706-485-8557.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can`t find anybody that can say anything bad about them. I personally worry about what I haven`t done, and what I need to do. And that is, I need to catch who did this.
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GRACE: And now to Indiana. Did a mild mannered piano teacher shoot her husband ten times, hide his body in a padlocked toolbox, and then claim the husband was attacked by a dog?
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cops say when they come to the ex-couple`s property, 42-year-old Danielle Green says police can search everything but a box.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They searched this metal box and found Raymond`s body decaying inside.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Really shocked.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Danielle Green would tell police she shot her husband ten times. She says in self-defense after he threatened her.
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GRACE: To Melissa Nealy, anchor with WLW. Joining me in Cincinnati. Melissa, thanks for being with us. I don`t understand how a husband can be shot ten times, padlocked in a metal box, and then say the dog did it?
NEALY: Well, Nancy, this story reads a lot like a plotline from the musical "Chicago," really. Relatives reported Raymond Green missing, and when the officers went out to his home to check and see if he was there, his ex-wife first told him, told them, rather, the police, that he wasn`t there. And then they investigated more. They went and got search warrants and then they came back and Danielle Green then had a different story. She told them that her ex-husband had gotten into a fight with the German shepherd and she hadn`t seen him since. That wasn`t the end of it. Officers searched the property and found a toolbox that was covered in flies and smelled of decay, and that`s when they found Raymond`s body inside.
GRACE: Joining me right now in addition to Melissa Nealy, is Aaron Negangard, Ohio and Derboran (ph) County prosecutor. Thank you for being with us. Did she actually first say the dog was somehow responsible?
AARON NEGANGARD: Yes, she claimed that to several people that the dog was responsible. She claimed that to several people. She claimed it to her neighbor, she claimed it to her friends. She then claimed that she called the family and told family that this is what happened to her husband, and then later when the police questioned her, later when the police questioned her, they said -- she said I didn`t know. Then when the police were looking at the -- looking for the person, she said, I can`t find -- you can look anywhere, but you cannot look in the box.
GRACE: Oh, well, you know, Aaron, look anywhere but don`t look in that metallic padlocked box that the cadaver dogs are hitting on. With me, Aaron Negangard, Ohio and Dearborn county prosecutor. Clark Goldband, what more can you tell us?
GOLDBAND: Nancy, you heard about a lot of things, and it`s not just a toolbox that law enforcement searched. Take a look behind me. They obtained this ex-wife`s cell phone and here`s what she searched months ago. Headshot from .38 caliber at close range. She searched all kind of ways to shoot and kill via a gun, Nancy. Authorities say she even searched about the Trayvon Martin case.
GRACE: Case alert now. A 7-year-old girl snatched from Marina West elementary school, Oxnord, California. The search for 7-year-old Nadine goes on. Tip line, Oxnard police. 805-385-7600.
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GRACE: A man found shot ten times, his body then put in a metal box, padlocked. Let`s go straight to Sheryl Hunter, trauma recovery expert and author of "Using it: Turning setbacks into success." Sheryl, thank you for being with us. You have been a crime victim. How do you deal with a family after their loved one has been found dead in a box? And then it turns out another member of the family, the wife, is state`s prime suspect?
HUNTER: It is natural that they`ll want to push for justice being done, but the thing that`s most imperative to know is that a guilty verdict will never bring peace, so they should come together at this time and do everything that they can to comfort themselves and each other, and to start to pick up the pieces and build a new life.
GRACE: To Dr. Tim Gallagher, a medical examiner, forensic pathologist joining me in addition to Cheryl Hunter. Dr. Gallagher, take a look at this box. How do you, without dismembering it, how do you get a human body, a man`s body, in this box? I don`t understand it.
GALLAGHER: Well, you`d be surprised at how flexible people are after they`ve decomposed for a little bit. We`ve seen many bodies stuffed in ice chests and coolers and 55 gallon drums. It`s not unusual to find a full- size human being in a box that size.
GRACE: Wow. Okay. And the defense changing, last that I heard, the dog did it. Okay.
Let`s stop and remember American hero, Army Sergeant Deon Taylor, 30, the Bronx. Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Combat Action Badge. A police officer back home. Dreamed of law school. Parents, Pamela and Leon. Brother, Demar. Fiancee, Catlynn (ph). Son, Drew. Deon Taylor. American hero.
Everyone, I want to thank you for being with us tonight. Drew up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.
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