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Nancy Grace
Midwife Charged with Homicide; Dad Outbursts in Court; 911 Calls and Police Statements in Slenderman Case
Aired June 05, 2014 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Wisconsin. An innocent sleepover with three 12-year-old girls turns deadly when two of the girls,
obsessed with on-line sci-fi stories, fantasy characters found on a bizarre Web site, lured their 12-year-old little friend to play hide and seek, then
hold the child down, stabbing her 19 times, all in a freaky bid to please a magical fantasy creature, Slenderman, then, after the horrific stabbing of
the 12-year-old little friend say, Part of me feels remorse, part of me doesn`t.
Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, we obtain the chilling 911 calls. And from police sources, we obtain statements the two 12-year-old girls
make behind bars. We also learn that there were scores of warning signals. Why did nobody listen? And tonight, we learn more about the lure of
Slenderman and how he sucks in young girls, convincing them to try and commit murder!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was, like, pretty cool (INAUDIBLE) until, like, probably 4th grade, when she started to act kind of weirdish.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The plan, the attack, the motive all to please the fictitious horror character Slenderman.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that, quote, "many people do not believe Slenderman is real," and she wanted to, quote, "prove the skeptics wrong."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That from ABC`s "GMA."
Then to Cedar City. Cops say a midwife refuses to take a pregnant mom to the hospital during birth. Tonight, that midwife charged with murder!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A Utah midwife is behind bars after police say she caused the death of a premature newborn by refusing to take the pregnant
mother to the hospital.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The first baby was born, and investigators say Sorensen did not have the proper equipment. That baby died.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Then to Attleboro (ph), a voice coach giving a little girl private voice lessons says he, quote, "falls in love." What, did he forget about
his wife and child? Even getting a new job as guidance counselor at the little girl`s school. As we go to air, the little girl`s father explodes
in court as the alleged child molester insists, I`m in love.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sex with a 14-year-old student.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He found the attention given to him by this 14-year- old girl to be hard for him to resist.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The alleged victim`s father had heard enough.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look at me, you (EXPLETIVE DELETED)!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A tonight, truck driver viewing porn on his cell phone kills a 20- year-old woman in a fiery crash.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Horror on the highway.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely tragic.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His sole purpose is to drive this truck.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They were a young, beautiful couple.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Brake failure? No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The truck driver rams their car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Instead, he was distracted as he drove and watched porn on his cell phone.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now he`s killed someone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight, live to Wisconsin. An innocent sleepover with three 12- year-old girls turns deadly when two of the girls, obsessed with online sci-fi stories, fantasy characters found on a bizarre Web site, lure their
12-year-old little best friend to play hide and seek in the woods, then hold her down, stabbing the child 19 times, all in a freaky bid to please a
magical fantasy creature, Slenderman. After the horrific stabbing of the little friend, they say, Part of us feels remorse, part of us doesn`t.
Just released, in the last hours, we obtain the chilling 911 calls. And we obtain from police sources statements from the 2-year-old (sic) little
girls that are made behind bars. We learn there were scores of warning signals. Why did no one listen?
And tonight, more about the lure of Slenderman and how this sci-fi creature on line sucks in young girls, convincing them to try and commit murder.
Incredible facts as they are developing on this story. Straight out to Ashley Spears (ph), CNN affiliate WITI. Ashley, thank you for being with
us. You know, the 911 tapes and the statements that these girls are making behind bars are incredible. What more are we learning about Slenderman and
the whole scenario?
ASHLEY SPEARS, WITI CORRESPONDENT: Well, the latest is that the creator of Slenderman, that fictional character, did release a statement yesterday,
saying that he is completely shocked by this tragedy and heartbroken and that his heart really goes out to these victims.
And we`re also learning more about one of the suspects, Morgan Geyser. A classmate of hers says she started to become dark in the 4th grade, talking
about suicide and death, even at one point holding up a sledgehammer, saying that it could be used as a weapon.
GRACE: OK, you`re seeing video from suspect -- video of suspect Anissa Weier from The Vine (ph). OK, that was Ashley Spears -- Sears (ph),
everyone. We`re taking your calls.
Clark Goldband, so one of the two perps actually holds a sledgehammer up over her head? What are the facts around that?
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, that`s this new report, and that`s what they`re saying. Here`s what we know. This student says
this girl seemed totally normal up until about 4th grade, when she started talking about death and Slenderman and horror. And she says she got
progressively weirder. In fact, this student, who`s in the same grade as one of the suspects, says she`s kept her distance ever since she saw her
holding a sledgehammer above her head, saying something to the effect of, I can do anything I want with this.
GRACE: Whoa! Back it up! Back it up! Everybody, we are live in Wisconsin right now and taking your calls.
So far, we`ve heard there were no warning signals. No! We have been investigating this and learned that there are warning signals. As of right
now, the girls are 12 years old. Back it up. They showed up at school, one of them, with a sledgehammer. Did I hear you right, Clark, that she
holds a sledgehammer? Where did she get a sledgehammer, number one? Holds it up over her head and says what?
GOLDBAND: I can do anything I want with this, or something to that effect, based on the latest reports we`re seeing, Nancy.
GRACE: You know, I don`t get it. In this day and age of no tolerance, you can`t even bring a toy gun to school, you can`t bring a facsimile of one,
nothing -- that this child can bring a sledgehammer to school and say, I can do anything with this?
I`m hearing in my ear, joining me right now from Milwaukee, Meg McKenzie, news anchor with WISN. Meg McKenzie, we have just gotten our hands on the
911 calls. I want you to take a listen, Meg, with me. Take a listen. Let`s roll it, Liz.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Came upon a 12-year-old female. She appears to be stabbed.
911 OPERATOR: She appears to be what?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stabbed.
911 OPERATOR: Hi, sir. So are you with this 12-year-old female?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. She says she`s having trouble breathing. She said she was stabbed multiple times.
911 OPERATOR: Stabbed multiple times?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
911 OPERATOR: OK, sir, are you with her right now?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
911 OPERATOR: Is she awake?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s awake.
911 OPERATOR: Is she breathing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, she`s breathing. She said she can take shallow breaths. She`s alert.
911 OPERATOR: OK, stay with her. We`re sending the police department. Don`t hang up, OK? Is there any bleeding going on?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her clothing has blood on it.
911 OPERATOR: Where are the wounds? Do you see where the wounds are?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. I don`t know if I should be rolling her over and checking or not. Do you know where...
911 OPERATOR: OK, just stay with her and just let me know if she`s conscious or alert or stops breathing or anything. Hold on. I`m going to
talk to the ambulance. Police are also en route.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, thank you.
(INAUDIBLE) bothering you at all? (INAUDIBLE) what do you need? OK.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who did that to you? Or don`t you want to talk?
911 OPERATOR: And she didn`t say who did this or how it...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know if she wants to be talking. I started to ask her, and then...
911 OPERATOR: OK. That`s OK. If she`s...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s trying to save her energy, I think.
911 OPERATOR: OK. How did you see her? Did you just...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was right in the middle of the little path I take.
911 OPERATOR: Middle of the little path. OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
911 OPERATOR: Does she have a bike or anything with her?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I don`t see it. One sandal is off, but you know, maybe three feet away from her.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: And what`s so revealing about that is you hear the guy trying to talk to the girl, trying to render aid to her. And he`s actually trying to
talk to her, and she`s trying to tell what happened. But you can hear in the background she can`t really form words.
If you`ll recall, this little girl has been stabbed in the heart, the pancreas, the liver, the stomach, one inch from a major artery, all about
this fictional character Slenderman. So you hear through some miracle, the child is trying to talk. Take a listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: OK, so you see any active bleeding or blood spurting out or anything like that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, unless it`s underneath her. I just see dried blood.
911 OPERATOR: OK, just dried blood. OK -- OK, is she still breathing? Is she still alert?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
911 OPERATOR: OK, stay with her. Stay with her, and keep an eye on her. Hold on just a minute. Do not hang up, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, I will not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who did that to you? Or don`t you want to talk?
911 OPERATOR: She didn`t say who did this or how it happened?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know if she wants to be talking. I started to ask her, and then...
911 OPERATOR: That`s OK, if she`s...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s trying to save her energy, I think.
911 OPERATOR: OK. But you nobody else is around you. Are you clearly visible if they pull down that road towards the dead end, that they`ll see
you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m sorry. I couldn`t hear you.
911 OPERATOR: Are you clearly visible when they come down there, so they see you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m going to have -- I`ve got a strobe flashlight on my bike. So I`ll shine that towards any emergency vehicle I see. And I`ll be
standing in the middle of the road.
911 OPERATOR: You`re in the middle of the road. And where is she, on the side of the road?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, she`s on the grass, a little trail I take on my bicycle.
911 OPERATOR: OK. OK. Don`t hang up, sir. Just stay right with me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: It goes on and on. And in just a moment, we`re going to show you some of the incredible statements these two 12-year-old girls have made
behind bars the night of this attempted murder -- 19 stabs on their little best friend.
With me right now, Shira Chess, the assistant professor, mass media arts, University of Georgia, a Slenderman scholar. Yes, there is actually a
scholar on Slenderman.
Shira, thank you for being with us. What`s so incredible to me is, you know, these pictures look so real, Shira. And when children look at this,
they think Slenderman is real. Now, the creator of Slenderman has said, basically, Well, I`m so sorry this happened.
What do you think is going to happen when the whole myth is, to live with Slenderman in his mansion, you`ve got to kill somebody?
SHIRA CHESS, SLENDERMAN SCHOLAR (via telephone): That`s not actually the original myth. And I think part of the problem that`s happening here is
that we`re seeing something that has been internalized and then reinterpreted by these young girls. The original Slenderman stories as
they appeared initially on Somethingawful.com, and then later throughout the Web but also Creepypasta, as you`ve notice, they`re no more dangerous
than a vampire story. It`s the same sort of thing. And part of the problem here is that they took something out of context and they put their
own sort of -- they internalized...
GRACE: Well, you know, Ms. Chess, they are children. And when you put a story like Slenderman on line, what do you think children are going to do?
What is the original myth of Slenderman? It did not involve a proxy of any sort or a mansion?
CHESS: No, it does not talk about any sort of a mansion. In fact, Slenderman lives in the woods.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: And let me know immediately if you see anything else suspicious in the area, a car, a person, anything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right.
911 OPERATOR: Keep your eyes open. Was anyone coming or leaving, any cars coming or leaving when you came upon her?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
911 OPERATOR: Nothing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
911 OPERATOR: Were you on foot walking by, or did you...
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Tonight, we have obtained all of the 911 tapes surrounding the horrific stabbing of a 12-year-old little girl at the hands of her two 12-
year-old best friends in their bid to please that sci-fi creature you just saw, Slenderman. There he is. It looks so real, it sucks children in to
think that they have to try and commit murder.
Also tonight, we have obtained their statements from behind bars from police sources. Liz, let`s show what we have learned about the thinking of
the two 12-year-old little girls.
"We have to kill the victim to prove ourselves worthy to the Slender. The plan was to put duct tape over the victim`s mouth, P.L., stab her in the
neck, put the covers over her to make it look like she was sleeping, and then run. The plan changed to kill P.L. in the bathroom. As Weier noted,
the floor has a drain for the blood to go down. The blood was to kill her there, in there, lock the door and run, leaving the victim. Weier pointed
out to the woods and suggested they kill the 12-year-old victim in the woods, indicating they said they were going to play hide and seek so they
could distract the little girl and kill her. The bad part of me wanted her to die. The good part of me wanted her to live. We stabbed her. I think
it was Weier first. Weier sort of put the knife in my hand, then I continued to stab her. Geyser then stated, It was weird that I didn`t feel
remorse."
It goes on and on. I have statements here from behind bars. "She put the knife back in her bag, then wiped it off on her jacket. Weier indicated
they said they were going to play hide and seek so they could distract the victim and kill her. One states, Weier stated she started walking away
from Geyser and said, Go ballistic, go crazy, later stated on that day Geyser was counting in her head while stabbing the little victim, that she
believed she stabbed her 17 times. The victim did not want to go in the woods but was pushed in the woods by best friend Morgan Geyser, who stated,
I may as well just say it, kill her. When Geyser was asked if she knew what she did was wrong, she stated, Probably wrong."
Unleash the lawyers, Jason Oshins joining me out of New York, Areva Martin out of LA. First to you, Jason Oshins. They`re actually trying to make a
distinction that one held her down while the other did the stabbing? That`s not going to cut it in a court of law. And yes, I know these are
two 12-year-olds, but the law applies the same to them, Jason.
JASON OSHINS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, I understand, Nancy, and I think the fact that they`re 12 -- and you look at their statements, clearly, there`s
some psychological element that`s going on, how they were influenced by Slenderman, what role the parents and the school played...
GRACE: I notice...
OSHINS: ... in not knowing what was going on...
GRACE: Put him up, please. I notice that as you`re even saying this, Jason Oshins, you`re shaking your head, No, no, no, no, no, no, no. But
you`re saying, yes, there`s going to be a psychological argument. That`s what you`re doing because a psychological argument is not going to save the
day for these two 12-year-olds. Did you see those statements we just got...
OSHINS: Nancy...
GRACE: ... what they said behind bars?
OSHINS: Listen, the role of any defense lawyer or this defense lawyer in certain situations is to mitigate what the sentence might be. It`s
horrific listening to it. I don`t think any defense attorney is not moved by the fact that this 12-year-old victim is going through this. It`s
horrible.
GRACE: Areva, hold on one moment. With me right now, Meg McKenzie, news anchor, WISN. Meg McKenzie, what more do you know tonight?
MEG MCKENZIE, WISN (via telephone): You know, you were talking about their initial statements with investigators. One other thing to point out was
the girls led the victim to believe that they were going to get her help. It just shows the callousness of it. They told her to lie still and to
slow her breathing down, and then that would mean she would bleed more slowly.
And they really made her believe that they were going to get her help, never intending on getting her any sort of help, leaving the girl. Then
she crawled out of the woods on her own. Thank goodness she had enough strength to do that, where that bicyclist that you heard on the 911 tape
was able to find her. If she wouldn`t have been able to crawl, who knows. It would have taken a matter of minutes, maybe.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Tonight, we obtain statements of the two 12-year-old girls now behind bars for brutally stabbing their best friend, a 12-year-old girl, to
please this sci-fi creepy character here. We found him on Creepypasta Wik -- what -- how did it go -- Creepypasta Wiki.
Back to Meg McKenzie with WISN. I was reading their statements from behind bars, Meg, and they actually say that they kind of walked away from the
victim at an angle so she could see them leaving as they were talking about, We`re going to go get you help. But that was not their intent.
What more go you know?
MCKENZIE: That`s exactly what happened. You know, the girls were very candid with investigators when they first talked to them, saying, you know,
that they frantically stabbed her. And following that, they`re watching her, and Weier told investigators that they could tell she couldn`t
breathe, she couldn`t walk, she couldn`t talk. And then they tell her that they`ll go get her help, and like you said, walk away from her, leaving
her, telling her to stay still and that she would bleed more slowly if she would listen to their instructions.
GRACE: Areva Martin joining me, with Jason Oshins. They intended to leave her there to bleed to death. They planned to kill her in the bathroom so
the blood would go down the drain and not make a mess. There is no way that they`ve got an insanity defense. What are you going to say,
Slenderman made them do it? Is that your defense, the two of you?
AREVA MARTIN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, Nancy, they absolutely do have a defense. Everything that I`ve heard about this case -- of course, it`s
horrific, but these girls had a break with reality. One of the statements that we`re not hearing about is the fact that one girl said she believed if
they didn`t kill their friend, that Slenderman would kill them.
GRACE: Oh, OK...
MARTIN: So there`s also some clear evidence...
GRACE: ... so I take it...
MARTIN: ... of psychiatric issues here.
GRACE: What you`re saying then, Areva Martin, in layperson`s talk is coercion, that if they didn`t kill the little girl, then Slenderman was
going to jump out of the computer and kill them?
MARTIN: But Nancy...
GRACE: No, it`s got to be a real coercion.
MARTIN: ... they did this based on a mythical character. Thy did this based on a mythical character.
GRACE: That doesn`t...
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: ... delusional.
GRACE: You know what?
MARTIN: It doesn`t...
GRACE: I`m going to wish you a lot of luck with that.
MARTIN: That shows a degree of psychiatric issues, Nancy.
GRACE: Let`s see what else they said behind bars. Tonight, we have obtained their statements. Geyser claimed she was having a nervous
breakdown, and Weier had to calm her down, but they still did the stabbing. Weier pointed to the woods to Geyser and suggested they kill the little
girl in the woods.
Weier stated the little victim, P.L., got up and tried to walk towards the street, but was stumbling. They told her they were going to get her help,
but Weier indicated to police they never planned on getting help for the victim. It was the hope that the victim would die. And they would see
Slender and know that he was real.
Once they left, they walked through the bushes and walked to Walmart. Weier talked about the planning stages and said every now and then she and
Geyser would whisper about the plan to kill the victim when they were on the bus. They didn`t want to be overheard. They whispered because they
didn`t want people to hear them. They feared they would go to prison if they ever found out.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Cops say a midwife refuses to take a pregnant mom to the hospital during birth of twins. Tonight the midwife charged with homicide.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Utah Police have arrested a midwife after she refused to take a pregnant patient to the hospital, resulting in the death
of one of the mother`s premature newborn twins.
Police say Vicky Sorensen who is not a licensed midwife tried to stop the mother from leaving the birthing center and then lied to paramedics about
the mother and baby`s conditions when they arrived on scene.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To Kim Kirkwood, talk show host, KTKK. I don`t get it, and I`ve actually handled a very extensive midwife, certified nurse midwife,
investigation. They are supposed to work hand in hand with OB-GYNs. In other words, they`re supposed to do normal vaginal deliveries, not high
risk, which is twins. Not any other type of risky birth. And they work with an OB-GYN that has privileges at a hospital so if things start going
wrong, they can go to the hospital. Midwifes typically don`t have hospital privileges.
What happened, Jim Kirkwood? Why is this midwife now charged with homicide?
JIM KIRKWOOD, NEWS SHOW HOST, KTKK: First of all, she wasn`t licensed. She`s out there on her own doing what she wanted to do. Second her
equipment was pathetic, the victim -- the mother here, her mother is an OB- GYN nurse, and she couldn`t believe the state of the equipment and the lack of equipment.
GRACE: OK. Somehow this is resulting in homicide charges.
With me, Jim Kirkwood, KTKK, midwives are not considered a fad at this day and age, typically certified nurse midwives.
Take a listen, birthing fads.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Women these days have many different ideas about giving birth and handling their pregnancies such as Lamaze classes, fancy
birthing rooms, midwifery, C-sections and mommy yoga. Now it`s going a step further with underwater births.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Instead moms can have aquadurals. This is a birthing pool. Women give birth under water. There`s also a birthing chair. One
of these contraptions, she sits in front.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: She`s eight and a half months pregnant and she`s doing a pretty intense workout here. It`s called (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lifting weights and even a birth in the wild?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa. Birth in the wild? OK, I`m not sure what that is.
Matt Zarrell, first of all, what is birth in the wild? OK. She`s having a baby on the back porch. I don`t know -- OK, I didn`t really need to see
that, but OK. OK. I think I know what it is, Matt Zarrell. I think I know what birth in nature is.
That`s video from YouTube, everyone.
Speaking of birthing fads, Matt Zarrell, let`s get back on track. Let`s get the car back in the middle of the road. What happened in this case?
Why did a midwife refuse to take a mother delivering twins to the hospital?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, from what Sorensen, the midwife, tells police and have said before is that she was able to handle it. That
she felt confident she was able to handle it but there was so much evidence, Nancy, that says that she was not able to handle it. She was
even hostile when the paramedics came. She lied to them multiple times. She claimed she wasn`t actually there present for the birth which she was,
that she did not know how long the baby was born, which she did. The gestational age, she knew that, she lied about that.
She also lied, Nancy, about the mother, the relationship she had with the mother. She claimed that the mother had actually just walked in off the
street that day. Well, it turns out, though, that this midwife delivered this mother`s first child years before.
GRACE: OK, Matt, I`ve got a disconnect here. Let me just ask this question? As I always said in court, let me rephrase the question to try
to get the answer I want. Isn`t it true, Matt, that the mother was begging to go to the hospital?
ZARRELL: Yes.
GRACE: OK. I got that part. Why didn`t the midwife take the mother to the hospital?
ZARRELL: Well, I think that`s the question that cops have because they believe that she should have taken her to the hospital and the midwife just
kept saying, we can handle it, we can handle it, I know what I`m doing.
GRACE: Oh, dear lord, OK, I`m hearing in my ear. Hold on, Kelly in Kentucky. I`m just being joined by Dr. Sujatha Reddy, OB-GYN at Premiere
Care for Women.
Dr. Reddy, thank you for being with us. What do you make of this case? I mean, this is a high-risk deliver with twins?
DR. SUJATHA REDDY, PREMIER CARE FOR WOMEN: Yes, this is heartbreaking, Nancy. I was just really shocked and saddened to see this. This is a high
risk delivery and really should have been in the hospital. And, you know, twins can be delivered vaginally, but here you`ve got a couple of things.
These are premature twins which definitely there`s chance they`re going to need more advanced care like in a NICU. So you really want them in the
hospital.
And as you see here, sometimes, twin deliveries can go rather bad rather quickly, and -- she should have been in a place where she could have had an
emergency cesarean if she needed it. And that did not happen.
GRACE: Well, Dr. Reddy, that is exactly what happened to me. I went to Atlanta for a three-day visit, I ended up having an emergency C-section and
Lucy and myself almost died, that`s why this story is so striking me to the core.
Dr. Reddy, cops are alleging the mother of twins was hemorrhaging. What does that mean? The mother is hemorrhaging, begging to go to the hospital,
and the midwife refuses to take her to the hospital. What does that mean, hemorrhages during birth?
REDDY: So that means the blood is really pouring out of this patient. And it`s probably because after the first twin was delivered the pressure in
the uterus changes and sometimes the placenta can pull away from the wall of the uterus. And as that happens, there`s like an open faucet of
bleeding. That is absolutely life-threatening to mother and baby. That is so frightening to hear. That`s frightening when you`re in a hospital
because we`ve all seen it happen if you deliver enough babies. When you`re in a hospital, you can handle it and you have --
GRACE: Well, Dr. Reddy, listen to this.
REDDY: You can`t imagine being in a house.
GRACE: As the mother was being taken away in the ambulance, the midwife was yelling at the mother -- demanding that she come back and deliver the
baby. The daughter even called another woman for help, who said, please go to the hospital.
I`m distraught because doctors, when they finally get to the hospital, who treat the surviving twin said that the dead twin had 100 percent chance of
survival.
What about that, Dr. Reddy?
REDDY: Absolutely, I think, you know, when you`ve got -- you know, there`s a question, if these are 30-week twins or 32 to 33-week twins. Either of
which, in a qualified hospital, there`s the chances of having a completely normal life is super, super high. It`s close to 100 percent. But that`s
in a hospital, you can handle it.
GRACE: Got it.
REDDY: Preterm baby needs special care. And I would never have allowed, if it was my patient to have this --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Hold on, out to the lines, Kelly in Kentucky.
Kelly, apparently as she was getting on the ambulance. The midwife never even told paramedics there`s still a second baby inside the mom.
What`s your question, Kelly?
KELLY, CALLER FROM KENTUCKY: I don`t -- I mean, I don`t understand this. You know, this case, this case, what I`m listening to and the facts that
I`ve gotten so far, you know, this is nothing less than manslaughter in the first degree.
GRACE: Well, you know what, I`m glad you brought that up, Kelly. Stay right there.
Unleash the lawyers, Jason Oshins, Areva Martin. This has got to be at least -- at the very least second degree murder, Jason?
OSHINS: No.
GRACE: What now, you`re shaking your head.
OSHINS: No, I`m shaking my head because it`s not. I mean, it`s, you know --
GRACE: Because?
OSHINS: It`s charged what it should be, which would be at the highest level criminally negligent homicide. A deviation forward would be normal
practice. That`s it.
GRACE: Bethany Marshall, the thinking behind this nurse/midwife screaming at the mom get back in here and deliver the second baby. What happened,
Bethany?
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": Well, I think the thinking is similar to any other person who practices outside the scope
of their license or worse yet without a license or certificate. She felt she knew more than the doctors, she felt superior to the doctors, that she
had superior knowledge, that she could help this mother more. It almost rose to the level of some sort of dogma or zealous fervor that she could
deliver a superior baby, a superior birth.
And she didn`t even take into account the health of the patient.
GRACE: Guys.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: And now live to Attleboro. A voice coach giving a little girl private voice lessons says he, quote, "falls in love. I guess he forgot
about his wife and child. Even he gets a new job as guidance counselor at the little girl`s school.
As we go to air, the little girl`s father explodes in court as the alleged perp insists, I`m in love.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Prosecutors say McBride admitted to having sex with the teen at North Attleboro Middle School.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: While in the music room, in between rehearsals of other students.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Having sex with the teen in a car at the Emerald Square Mall to having sex with the teen in his home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She stated that they had sexual relations in his master bedroom.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The alleged victim`s father couldn`t contain his anger.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look at me. Look at me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Rich Zeoli, host of the "Rich Zeoli Show", WPHT. So this guy starts off giving the little girl private voice lessons and
then installs himself as guidance counselor at her school. What happened when the father had the outburst in court?
RICH ZEOLI, HOST, "RICH ZEOLI SHOW" AT WPHT: I think the father felt, as any father would feel, watching this predator up on the stand. And yes,
Nancy, he reacted and yes, they had to pull him out of court. He said look at me, look at me. I think that guy is being a father.
This guy`s up there, after having relations with his daughter in his car, his house and the school where he works as a guidance counselor and as a
voice teacher. I mean, this guy should go away for a long time, Nancy.
GRACE: OK. Take a look at what happened in court that we have.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look at me, you piece of (EXPLETIVE DELETED). Look at me, look at me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That is the father yelling across the courtroom. Trying to get this guy to turn around and look at him. That is the man accused of having
sex with this little girl. He was her private voice coach, then installed himself as guidance counselor at her school. He would not even look at the
father.
And with me right now, someone who knows that feeling oh, so well, Marc Klaas, president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation. Actually pulled out
of the courtroom after an outburst at his daughter`s killer. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would also like to state for the record that the main reason I know I did not attempt any lewd act was because of the statement
the young girl made to me when walking her up the embankment. Just don`t do me like my dad. I have to pay my dues, so should you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Burn in hell, Davis.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jacobs, do you have any comments you want to make?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED). (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Marc Klaas, I know it`s wrong, but I only wish that you got your hands around his neck. I only wish that you had -- Marc Klaas, you know
what this father is feeling 10 times over. Weigh in.
MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Well, indeed I do, Nancy. You know, this is a sterile situation, he`s in a courtroom,
emotion is devoid in the courtroom where it should be. Everything is technical, this punk who abused his daughter. His daughter who he always
told that he would be able to protect. And he found out he couldn`t protect her in the safety of his school.
I completely understand where this man was coming from, it`s the most emotional moment of his life. And he simply wanted this coward to take a
look at him. So he could understand the agony that he has rocked on this family, and that gutless little coward who has no problem getting little
girls wouldn`t even look at the father.
GRACE: OK, this guy hasn`t been convicted yet, take a look at what has just happened in court.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look at me you piece of (EXPLETIVE DELETED). Look at me. Look at me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look at me, you (EXPLETIVE DELETED). Look at me. Look at me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And look, he won`t even look over at this little girl`s father. A little girl taking private voice classes from this guy, right there. I
want you to see before they take him out of the courtroom. The father outbursts in court. And somehow now everyone`s acting like the father did
something wrong?
Well, I want to show you what happened when Marc Klaas had an outburst in court at the man who took and killed his daughter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The main reason I know that I did not attempt any lewd act that night was because of a statement the young girl made to me when
walking her up the embankment. Just don`t do me like my dad. I have to pay my dues, so should you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Burn in hell, Davis.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. That concludes the statement.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jacobs, do you have any comment you want to make?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED). (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Marc Klaas, how is it that the fathers who have the outbursts in court somehow turn into the bad guy in this scenario? How is that, Marc
Klaas?
KLAAS: Well, you know, victims are oftentimes nothing more than the fuel or the energy that fuels a courtroom situation. In this situation, you
have a very clean cut looking young man. Every news report you read about this guy says that he was greatly respected in the community. There are
still people in the community that say that he couldn`t have done this. And a father outburst in the courtroom and they look at him and they go,
well, look at that guy, he`s out of control, he can`t even handle himself in a courtroom situation.
There must be something wrong with that man when all that he`s really doing is expressing his frustration over not being able to protect his child and
trying to get the perpetrator to take a look at him.
GRACE: You know, do you still remember that moment that you had the outburst in court?
KLAAS: I`ll never forget that moment, Nancy. I`ll never forget that moment as long as I live. It`s burned into my soul. It`s something that I
try not to think about but rears its ugly head all too often. You know, I was kicked out of that courtroom. Not only out of the courtroom, I was
kicked out of the entire courthouse.
GRACE: You know what, Marc?
KLAAS: But I am the father of the victim.
GRACE: You know what, I`ll never forget when I came down off the witness stand and was walking past the man that murdered my fiance and all his
lawyers and I looked at him. I was so out of it with pain. Now I wish I had leaped over the table and gone for him. That`s what I wish now. That
in retrospect.
You know, out to the lawyers. Jason Oshins, Areva Martin.
Areva Martin, why is the father the bad guy in this scenario? Why is everybody coming down on the father? What did the father do wrong?
MARTIN: The father is not the bad guy. I think the issue is the emotion. So we see this courtroom situation and this father, you know, lashes out --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: The issue is emotion?
MARTIN: Clearly -- it`s the emotion that this father had because what has happened to his daughter. This man has violated his daughter and the dad
is rightfully angry about it. So I don`t think anyone`s blaming the dad.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Yes, well actually --
MARTIN: Understand the emotion that the dad had.
GRACE: Actually they are blaming the father when this is the guy that is charged with having sex, raping, that`s statutory rape on his little girl.
And Marc Klaas also, for all, everybody that thinks that the father is the bad guy, let me remind everybody. Not only is this guy, Brian J. McBride,
not convicted yet, he`s not only charged with raping the little girl multiple times, he also allegedly sent explicit pictures and video to
another little girl, Marc Klaas.
So there`s two victims, alleged victims that we know of, Marc.
KLAAS: Well, that`s exactly right. We`ll probably see more victims be piled on. This guy has been in this system for some period of time. He
obviously has an eye for young girls. This guy is a monster. I think the father should be treated as a hero for at least expressing the kind of
feelings that the rest of us should have toward this individual.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: A truck driver plows into this 20-year-old girl. Laura Jane Thomas. Killing her while he`s watching porn.
To Dr. Bill Manion, medical examiner, forensic pathologist.
Doctor, how is being distracted -- how does that affect a driver`s reaction time?
DR. BILL MANION, M.D., MEDICAL EXAMINER, BURLINGTON COUNTY, NJ: Well, it significantly increases the reaction time, and when you`re driving a truck
at 40 or 50 miles an hour, you`re covering hundreds of feet in a very short time. And that`s why they`re constantly reminding us, don`t text and
drive. Don`t look at --
GRACE: I can`t believe --
(CROSSTALK)
MANION: Don`t plug your phone in and drive.
GRACE: Michael Christian, what happened?
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, SENIOR FIELD PRODUCER, "IN SESSION": Couple was driving down a busy highway. Their car broke down. So they pulled over to the
side of the road, they put on their flashers. The driver called his father for help. And then they went and stood behind one of those low metal
barriers that are often along highways.
GRACE: Right.
CHRISTIAN: However, here comes this truck driver watching porn. He hits their car with his truck. It flips up in the air and lands on this poor
victim. She died almost instantly on the way to the hospital.
GRACE: The reaction time factor here, watching porn while driving. A 20- year-old girl dead.
You know what, let`s stop and remember American hero Marine Corporal Adrian Robles, 21, Scottsbluff, Nebraska. Purple Heart, National Defense Service
medal. Loved riding motorcycles. Music. Working out. Parents Cesar and Yolanda. Sister, Beatriz.
Adrian Robles, American hero.
Everyone, thank you again for being with us tonight. Drew up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then, good night,
friend.
END
