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Nancy Grace
Salt Mom Caught on Video; Carjacker Throws Baby Into Field
Aired June 23, 2014 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Valhalla. When a beautiful 5-year-old little boy dies in the hospital, heartbreak for a
grieving mom, who chronicles her son`s final days over social media. But tonight, did Mommy inject a lethal dose of salt into her own child`s
feeding tube? Salt mom`s defense declares she`s innocent.
Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, stunning new developments. At this hour, salt mom put on suicide watch as we discover Mommy caught on
camera taking 5-year-old Garnett out of his hospital bed and into the bathroom repeatedly, sometimes even dragging him with a tube attached,
Mommy holding a container of what we believe to be salt.
And tonight, we investigate and get the salt mom`s final words verbatim that she uses to get her friend to cover her tracks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She put the sodium in her son`s stomach tube.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "I need to you do something for me. I need you to go right now. Please get the bag from the feeding machine."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It appears that it was common table salt that you would buy at any supermarket.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Left in the middle of the room, and get rid of it. And don`t tell anybody."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And to Texas, a perp steals a green Saturn at a gas station, discovers a baby on board, then throws the baby girl, strapped into her
carseat, into a field to die.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say the baby`s mother left the little Genesis in her car to go inside the convenience store. At that exact
moment the suspect got into the mother`s vehicle and drove away with the baby. Several hours later, a jogger heard a baby crying and called 911.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And to Chesterfield. A hairdresser mom leaves her toddler girl alone in her Cadillac to style a client`s hair. The baby strangles
herself in Mommy`s partially opened window.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mom is hair stylist and reportedly stops at a client`s home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say she made a stop, left her SUV running with the toddler inside, Michaela`s (ph) head caught between the vehicle`s
power window and doorframe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And to Maine. A school boy, a clarinet prodigy, dies in his mother`s arms just 72 hours after the dentist. What happened?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Lamontaine (ph) died six days after having his wisdom teeth removed. Lamontaine contacted a rare flesh-eating bacteria
called necrotizing fasciitis.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very rapidly getting very ill.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And to Topo (ph), Florida, caught on tape, a giggly woman eats a bag of pot during a DUI bust!
Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. To Valhalla. When a beautiful 5-year-old boy dies in the hospital, heartbreak for his grieving mother, who chronicles her
son`s final days over social media. But tonight, did Mommy inject a lethal amount of salt into her own child`s feeding tube? Salt mom`s defense
declares she`s innocent.
In the last hours, stunning new developments. At this hour, salt mom has been put on suicide watch after we discover Mommy is caught on camera
in the hospital. It`s over an EEG. Mommy caught taking 5-year-old Garnett out of his hospital bed repeatedly, taking him back and forth and back and
forth to the bathroom. Sometimes when the child is too weak to walk, Mommy drags him to the bathroom. And catch this. She didn`t know she was being
watched.
We learn in the last hours that Mommy has an extra feeding tube with her. And she`s holding a container of what we believe to be salt. And
tonight, we investigate and we get salt mom`s actual words verbatim she uses to get a friend to cover her tracks. And actually, as we go to air,
we learn that salt mom has deadly searches on her iPhone, searches such as "dangers of high sodium," "hypernatremia," "high sodium levels in
children." That is on Mommy`s iPhone searches.
OK. We are taking your calls. Straight out to Jean Casarez, CNN correspondent. Jean, in the last hours, Mommy on suicide watch. What do
we know?
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, here`s what we know, Nancy. She`s in solitary confinement. She is in her very small cell for 23 hours
a day, one hour a day can go into the dayroom or she can go outside. Her shoes do not have shoelaces on them. And she is being monitored by a guard
outside of her cell. But we are not hearing that she`s out of mental evaluation at this point.
GRACE: Wa-wa-wa-wait! I thought her whole defense is going to be what, Baron von Munchausen by proxy or no?
CASAREZ: Well, good question. That could be what the prosecution brings on. But the prosecution is going to have a challenge, I think, to
be able to have a psychiatric evaluation...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: At this point then, Jean, she`s still just saying, I`m innocent, I had nothing to do with it.
Also joining us, Kelly Kazek, reporter at AL.com. Kelly, what can you tell us about this new video that we`re learning about? She`s caught on
camera. What do we know?
KELLY KAZEK, REPORTER, AL.COM (via telephone): Well, according to the assistant district attorney, Doreen Lloyd, Spears was seen on a videocamera
set up to take Garnett`s video EEG, a brain scan. And the video footage shows that she would repeatedly pick him up out of his hospital bed, carry
him into the bathroom. And she had a tube that fit into his feeding tube and a cup of liquid in her hand. And when she would come back, Garnett
would be in much more distress than when she went in.
GRACE: Jean Casarez -- hold on, Jean. Out to the lines. Brittany in California. Hi, Brittany. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. My question is, did this mother have any, like, record of, like, health issues? Because why would (INAUDIBLE) be in
her possession?
GRACE: OK, she had no history that is documented of mental health issues. But we do have documentation, Brittany in California, that in 2011
in Florida, she had been investigated for slapping the child repeatedly in the face very violently. And then when the child would start crying, then
Mommy would start crying. And obviously, this was observed, reported to police. Then police also investigated her for something called failure to
thrive, which basically means the child has malnutrition.
Back to Jean Casarez. Jean, I want to follow up -- to Dr. Nina Radcliff, joining us. Dr. Radcliff, what is an EEG? What is that?
DR. NINA RADCLIFF, PHYSICIAN (via telephone): It`s an electro- encephalogram. And what it is, is there are monitors put on your brain (INAUDIBLE) in order to monitor the electrical activity. So it gives us a
lot of information about what is going on. Are there seizures? Are (ph) somebody asleep? Is there activity? So it gives us a lot of information
of what`s going on in the brain.
GRACE: Jean Casarez, so this child, little Garnett, is attached to an EEG, which basically just means some of those sticky tabs are put around
his face, possibly on his chest, as well. And what the mom doesn`t understand is this EEG monitor actually has video on it.
CASAREZ: I didn`t know that. Did you, Nancy? Did you notice...
GRACE: No.
CASAREZ: ... a videotape inside the hospital room?
GRACE: I did not know that. And thank God we`ve got it because -- everybody, you are seeing pictures of salt mom with her 5-year-old little
boy. In the last hours, salt mom goes on suicide watch after we discovers that she is caught on tape, caught on tape by the hospital EEG monitor
there in the room, dragging the little boy back and forth to the bathroom.
Jean Casarez, from my understanding from our sources, this child was at some point -- there you are in the hospital. There he is. Look at
Mommy smiling. I hope the defense attorneys are seeing this.
You know what? Unleash the lawyers, Anne Bremner, high-profile Seattle lawyer, Randy Kessler, defense attorney out of Atlanta.
Did you see that picture, Anne? Because it was pretty much that shot except on video, where they catch salt mom. She`s all smiling there. Her
son is so sick that she actually has to drag him to the bathroom, all right, drag him to the bathroom. And she`s got a container in one hand and
an extra loop, a feeding tube in the other hand. What about that, Anne?
ANNE BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: What about the parade of horribles we just heard against her, Nancy? I mean, the thing is, is that we don`t know
what`s in the container. The kid has to go to the bathroom. She`s smiling because she wants to keep the kid happy. This is really a case where this
salt mom, you know, with all these, you know, terrible things being said about her -- the question is, where`s the evidence? You know, where is it?
GRACE: Where`s the evidence?
BREMNER: And the other thing, Nancy, I mean, really, with salt? I mean, if someone`s going to die from salt, it would be Anne Bremner. I
mean, besides steak, it would be salt in all America. I mean, the fact is...
(CROSSTALK)
BREMNER: Why would you use salt? I mean, why would you use salt?
GRACE: Well, are you actually trying to compare your use of table salt...
BREMNER: No, Nancy!
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... saline injected in his feeding bag? What are you talking about?
BREMNER: Let`s go back to what you called her...
GRACE: No, I...
BREMNER: ... which is "salt mom."
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... red meat and salt. What do you mean?
BREMNER: I said a lot about salt, Nancy. What I`m saying is that`s a pretty weird way for a mom to want to do this. And even with those
computer searches -- look at Casey Anthony. She walked right out of that courthouse, right out of that jail, and she had the same kind of computer
searches. I don`t see this as a case...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: You know, you got a pretty good success rate in the courtroom. And I assume it`s because you plan out your statements because what I just
heard was a big mishmash...
BREMNER: Nancy...
(CROSSTALK)
BREMNER: This is so unusual. This is so unusual. The fact is, everybody`s trying to smear her and call her "salt mom" and...
GRACE: I`m not trying to smear her!
BREMNER: Where is the evidence against her, Nancy? What is it?
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... talk about that.
BREMNER: OK.
GRACE: Just hold one moment, Randy Kessler. Back to you, Jean Casarez. What exactly were the searches on salt mom`s iPhone?
CASAREZ: They were, number one, "dangers of high sodium," as you said at the beginning of this show, "hypernatremia" and "high sodium levels in
children." And she (sic) directly died of sodium poisoning, Nancy.
GRACE: Now, listen to this, Jean. Take a listen to what salt mom says to her friend as police are headed to their home.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Please go to my house. I need you to do something for me. I need to you go right now. Please get the bag from the
feeding machine that`s in the middle of the room and get rid of it. And don`t tell anybody."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: At this hour, the woman dubbed "salt mom" has been put on suicide watch. This after we discover she`s actually caught on video.
Little known fact -- Garnett, age 5, in the hospital, dies in intense pain -- he was hooked up to an EEG monitor. We catch this Mommy on video going
back and forth and back and forth into the bathroom with an extra link of plastic feeding tube in one hand and a container in the other.
We also learn in the last hours that her iPhone reveals she has done searches for dangerous levels of sodium in children, dangerous levels of
sodium, high levels of sodium, and hypernatremia, which is salt poisoning.
Also -- let me quickly go to Kelly Kazek joining me. Kelly, why exactly is she on suicide watch?
KAZEK: Well, according to the officials I spoke with in New York, they said that inmates involved in high-profile cases are often segregated
from the general population. And the decision is made at the discretion of the Corrections Department, and it`s still labeled suicide watch because
they are isolated. They are kept in their cell for 23 hours a day.
GRACE: Got it.
KAZEK: But nobody could confirm whether she`s...
GRACE: Nobody will tell us actually why she`s on suicide watch. This as damning evidence against her emerges, especially off of forensics. I`m
talking about her computer, her iPhone, her blog postings.
Unleash the lawyers. Joining me, Randy Kessler and Anne Bremner. I`ve been taking a look at her Facebook posts. Now, this weekend, there`s
a backlash of people saying we shouldn`t attack moms that blog. This woman only blogged one time. That is not true. This mom blogged a lot, Randy
Kessler.
Randy Kessler, Garnett is sick with the flu, but feeling well enough to try out his home-made paint. He was admitted to Nyack Hospital, had a -
- quote, "had seizure." And she puts that in quoties (ph), which concerns me, "had a seizure, well enough to do laps around the floor, awaiting
neurologist. He`s completely back to himself. Still no word. Why does he put everything in quoties? And lab results. Please, please, send G love.
Went from fine to really sick in minutes. My sweet baby Garnett has been declared brain dead. It can`t be possible. That`s my baby boy. I`m not
ready to let him go. Sometime tomorrow, I will make the decision to remove life support. Garnett the great (ph) journeyed onward today at 10:20 AM."
So while her child is in the hospital in intense pain, Randy Kessler, Mommy is blogging. Mommy is blogging. Now, why would you take a child out
of the hospital bed, back and forth to the bathroom, even carrying additional feeding tube with you? Why? Because I`ve taken my family, I`ve
taken other people in the hospital back and forth to the bathroom. You don`t wrap a feeding tube around you and hold up a container, which we
believe had salt in it.
That`s why she`s on suicide watch, Randy Kessler.
RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know what, Nancy? You`ve got questions. You`ve got doubts about it. You`re just asking, Why would
she do this? It may be...
GRACE: I don`t have any doubt! I`m asking you for a defense.
KESSLER: Well, because -- you know what? You got all this Facebook stuff, and that`s consistent with a mother who`s grieving, who`s worried
about her child. She`s trying to get Alex (ph), she`s telling everybody, Help me, pray for me.
You know what? Maybe she`s guilty. Maybe she`s not. But they`ve got to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. This is a mother and a child, and
you`ve got a big burden to get a jury to believe that a mother would do this to her child.
GRACE: OK. Randy Kessler, how do you explain the iPhone searches for -- what is the name of this? -- hypernatremia, which is salt poisoning,
high doses of sodium levels in children, dangers of high sodium -- these were before her child died, before they found out he died of salt overdose.
KESSLER: That doesn`t mean she`s guilty. What other searches -- what`s she doing...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Really? What does it mean?
KESSLER: What other searches was doing? Anything she can do to try to save her child, find out what`s wrong with the child. Maybe she heard
rumors of people being, you know...
GRACE: OK, let me ask you this...
(CROSSTALK)
KESSLER: Who knows why.
GRACE: Let me ask you this...
KESSLER: She`s not guilty because of the searches.
GRACE: Randy, she is the sole care provider. I`d like to see the lawyers, please. Please give me any reasonable explanation as to why this
child died of salt overdose if Mommy didn`t do it?
KESSLER: That`s -- there`s going to be a lot more medical testimony in there, people a lot smarter than me or my partner over here talking
about medical defenses. I don`t know what happened to this child. You don`t know. We don`t know. We`re guessing.
GRACE: That`s the answer?
KESSLER: We`re guessing. You can`t guess when you`re going to sentence somebody for a crime like this.
GRACE: OK, Anne Bremner, jump in. Can either one of you give me any normal and innocent explanation as to why this boy went through this
painful death of salt poisoning at the hands of Mommy? She only goes on suicide watch after she finds out now the world knows she`s been caught on
camera on EEG.
BREMNER: Nancy, first, they put her on suicide watch. They do it all the time. It has nothing to do with guilt or innocence. And the second
thing is, I`m a lawyer, not a doctor. Let`s take a look at other people that died from this. What are the causes? Can it be natural, et cetera?
Could it have been some other...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Name one other person you know that died of salt overdose. Name one!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: And now to Texas. A perp steals a green Saturn at a gas station, discovers a baby on board, then throws the baby girl, still
strapped into a carseat, into a field to die.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An 8-month-old girl was abducted from her car. The perp left her in a field a short distance away. Police say the baby`s
mother left little Genesis in her car to go inside the convenience store. At that exact moment, the suspect got into the mother`s vehicle and drove
away with the baby. Several hours later, a jogger heard a baby crying and called 911.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: So Justin Freiman, was this around 1:00 o`clock in the morning? Am I correct about that? It was at a gas station?
JUSTIN FREIMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): That`s right, Nancy, just about 1:00 o`clock in the morning. The mom gets out of the car
with the car still running to run into the store at the gas station.
GRACE: OK. Right there, Jean Casarez, and the mom, of course, is not the perp -- but the mom left the baby in the car at the gas station with
the car running?
CASAREZ: With the car running. And obviously -- I don`t want to say obviously unlocked, but common sense tells you it happened so quickly. The
surveillance video captured this blurry individual walking up to the car, getting in the car and driving away. The mother watches it all from inside
the gas station where she`s paying for her gas.
GRACE: Well, why didn`t she run out there?
CASAREZ: I know she called 911 immediately, and an Amber Alert was issued.
GRACE: OK. OK. All right. So she wisely used her energy to call 911. OK, Jean Casarez, what do we know about the description of the perp,
first of all?
CASAREZ: Well, he is an African-American male. He is relatively tall. He is younger versus older. But he is still on the loose.
GRACE: OK, 5-9, early 20s, high-top -- do we have a step (ph) size? High-top haircut, slanted to one side, with a blond patch on the hair.
Police have released a sketch. Here it is. I`m not seeing where the blond patch is. Where is the blond patch, do you know, Jean Casarez?
CASAREZ: I don`t know where the blond patch is, and it`s not...
GRACE: OK, let me repeat this, 5-9, early 20s, high-top haircut slanted to the right, blond patch -- 713-222-8477. OK, pick it up from
there, Jean. When does he figure out that there`s a baby on board?
CASAREZ: Well, that`s a good question. We don`t know. But at some point, the car is abandoned. The license plates have been taken off. That
took some time. The baby blanket has been thrown out, as well as some other things in the car. But the car is found abandoned. But as you`re
looking right there, Nancy, I`ll let you pick up the story from there.
GRACE: So a jogger comes along and hears a baby crying, finds the baby thrown out in the field, the baby still strapped in the carseat,
covered in ants, covered in ant bites, and calls 911.
So what I want to know is who left this baby in a field to die still strapped in a carseat? 713-222-8477.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. For those of you just joining us, to Chesterfield. A hair dresser mom leaves her toddler girl alone in mommy`s
Cadillac to go into a home and style a client`s hair. The baby girl strangles herself in mommy`s partially opened window.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say the little girl`s head got caught between a car window and a door frame when she was left unattended in her
mommy`s car. Natasha says her sister did visit a friend. Neighbors there reported, and there was to style someone`s hair, but loved ones dispute
that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You don`t know the whole story.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Michael Board, WOAI, let me get this straight. Mommy is a hair dresser, she goes into a client`s home to do their hair, and leaves
the baby in the car, why?
BOARD: You know, Nancy, you ask any parent of a two-year-old, and they`ll tell you, you leave the child alone a few seconds, and the child
starts screaming their head off. This mom left her two-year-old child inside of a car for at least five minutes while she was inside this home
doing hair, chatting with some friends.
GRACE: Clark Goldband, five -- what kind of hair was that, five minutes? She did somebody`s hair in five minutes? I`m not buying that
five minute estimation. If she went in to do somebody`s hair, it took a lot longer. You are married, where is Clark? Your wife has long,
beautiful, thick hair. What, is she going to get done to her hair, put a body pin in it in five minutes? She was in there longer than five minutes.
GOLDBAND: There is some question on exactly how long the timing is.
GRACE: (inaudible) this question about how long the timing is.
GOLDBAND: OK. We cannot establish if her hair actually was being done, Nancy. The suspect`s dad is saying she was simply dropping off hair
products.
GRACE: Wait a minute. Just stop, Clark.
GOLDBAND: Okay.
GRACE: The police, isn`t it true, police originally state she goes in to do somebody`s hair, your defense right now is, okay, well, she left the
baby alone to drop off hair beauty products.
So that makes it okay? Because it sounds like that`s what you`re saying.
GOLDBAND: It`s not a defense. What I`m just trying to stay here, it`s not clear if hair was actually being done or if perhaps beauty
products were just being dropped off.
GRACE: Does that matter? So the defense says I was not doing their hair, I was actually not putting in a permanent. That`s the defense? I
left her alone, but I wasn`t putting in a permanent?
GOLDBAND: That`s certainly the questions I think this evening for the attorneys and the cops. But this is important to note, cops say when they
got there, they found the child dead, after its head was apparently stuck between the window and the car, they did not find a carseat, Nancy, no
carseat at all was reported to be found.
GRACE: That is significant, because if a child had been in a carseat, she wouldn`t have gotten as far as she did. Now do we know did mommy leave
the car window cracked? When you leave a pet in a car, you crack the window so it can breathe?
GOLDBAND: That`s the big question. We know according to reports, the key was in the ignition, but it seems like it`s kind of when you first turn
the key, that power stays on, the engine is not running. The big question is how exactly did this happen? Was the window closed, then opened, then
closed? Was it cracked open and then the girl accidentally closed her head in it? Certainly questions.
GRACE: Clark. So your question is, did the girl use the power window? That`s not my question. My question is better put to the lawyers,
Randy Kessler, first to you, Bremner. Does it really matter if the child touched the electric window or if mommy let it crack, like when you leave
the dog in the car and you want it to be able to get fresh air? What matters is mommy leaves the child in the car, and the child strangles
itself in a partially opened window. To me, that is the central fact. I don`t care if she is doing hair, I don`t care if she`s dropping off hair
products. That does not concern me. What concerns me, she left the child in the car.
BREMNER: She`s no different than the mom in the last story, Nancy, that left the child in the car and the car was carjacked. But the fact is,
if she is just dropping off products, it`s the same kind of thing.
GRACE: There is a difference, Anne. That baby lived, this baby died. It probably died a painful death of having its head crunched with an
electric window.
BREMNER: But, Nancy, how predictable was that? I think you can get on Google and see how many kids have done that to themselves at that age.
And one more thing on Google--
GRACE: Why do you keep talking about Google?
BREMNER: Because, Nancy, I have one more thing to say.
GRACE: Clark, get your iPhone and Google how many children have killed themselves with an electric window.
BREMNER: Let`s stick to one thing.
GRACE: While mommy is inside putting in a permanent. Let`s find that. I want to find that. Go ahead, Anne.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Do you need to go back, you need a lot of salt in your feeding bag?
BREMNER: That`s not where we are. 2.3 million people die every year from too much salt around the world.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: You know what, Kessler.
BREMNER: We`re not talking about salt mom anymore.
GRACE: The car window.
KESSLER: Where is the intent? If she rolled the window down, she wanted the child to breathe. She was dropping products off. It was not
smart, it was stupid, it was not intentional. She did not have the mens rea. She did not plan to kill her child.
GRACE: Please up the lawyers. Okay. Randy, that`s wise of you to throw out some Latin phrases, and think you`re going to get it over on me,
the mens rea. That means the intent. OK. Are you familiar with depraved and malignant heart theory of murder? Which means when you do an act --
and this is an example I would give juries, for instance, you drive at 95 miles an hour through an open air festival where everybody is walking from
tent to tent. And of course, you kill somebody, you run them down and kill them. You act with a depraved or malignant heart. You leave your child,
you crack the window so it can breathe, like a pet -- you leave the child not in a car seat, in your car, when you go in to deliver products or do
hair or whatever she is doing in there. The child is out there long enough to get out of its spot and possibly jiggle with the electric windows until
its head is basically crushed, crushed across the neck. That`s what happened to the baby.
KESSLER: Great example, Nancy, because if I was on the jury, I`d say I couldn`t see driving through a crowded arena at 90 miles an hour, but I
can see leaving my child in the car for one minute while I run inside. More jurors would likely be able to relate to what this mother did than
your depraved heart theory. I think this is one they will have a hard time getting a conviction.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: And now to Maine, a school boy, a clarinet prodigy dies in his mother`s arms, just 72 hours after the dentist. What happened?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In Ben`s case, oral surgery, to make him vulnerable.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The teen contracted a rare flesh eating bacteria called necrotising fascitis.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a rare, sporadic event. Obviously, very unfortunate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I want to see a picture, there he is, Benjamin, a school boy, a clarinet prodigy. Look at him. He was his parents` heart. He goes for
a routine dentist trip, 72 hours later he is dead. I`m going to give you the title. Necrotising fascitis. Flesh-eating bacteria. Kills this boy.
To Jackie Farwell, health editor, Bangor Daily News, Jackie, I just find it, I always say there is no coincidence in criminal law. So he goes to
the dentist. Less than 72 hours later, he suddenly got a flesh-eating bacteria and dies?
JACKIE FARWELL, BANGOR DAILY NEWS: Yes, as you mentioned, Benjamin had undergone a very routine procedure. He had four wisdom teeth removed
February 19th. He died three days later on February 22nd.
GRACE: To Greg Cason, psychologist, former star of Bravo`s L.A. Shrinks. Greg, he dies, the boy dies in his mother`s arms. She has
sacrificed her life to help him achieve. Of course she has. He is a clarinet prodigy. What a blow, and just so out of left field, that`s what
I want to ask you about. It`s such a hard to understand thing. He goes to the dentist. He dies of a flesh-eating bacteria?
CASON: Yes, Nancy, I think this is one of the more painful things a parent can go through, because it`s completely out of her control. She
took her child in for a health procedure in which he would be bettered by. He ends up dying, so she is going to feel a tremendous amount of guilt,
unfortunately, and she is going to feel completely out of control in having this boy die in her arms. I can`t imagine her grief. It`s going to be so
painful. She may not get over it.
GRACE: Another thing, Greg Cason, she may be blaming herself. She probably set up the appointment. She knows the dentist. She picked the
time, the venue, all of that, and her son dies, to the doctor Mark Burhenne. The thought of the dentist putting all of the explorer, the
sharp thing and the drill in your mouth makes a lot of people, including me, a little repulsed. No offense. But let me ask you this. What is
necrotising fasciatis, and how could that possibly be connected to the dental visit?
DR. MARK BURHENNE, DDS: Well, it`s a good question. I`ve never seen this happen before. I think an ADA spokesman confirmed that. Again, it`s
rare. But it`s a streptococcus bug. The question is, was it a drug- resistant version of it? This bug, I think this is the case of the wrong bug being at the wrong place at the wrong time. It got into the wound and
caused this eating of the fascia, and it happened so quickly, he probably did complain of a lot of pain. But again, everyone thought he had his
wisdom teeth out. That`s normal. And things didn`t -- not enough action was taken quick enough, unfortunately.
GRACE: Dr. Burhenne, everyone, joining me out of Sunnyvale, California. You said the fasciatis, the necrotising fascitis is in the
wrong place at the wrong time. All right. That sounds like a criminal. They always say wrong place, wrong time. But what do you mean by that?
How has this got to be connected to the dental visit somehow?
BURHENNE: Right. Again, the criminal term, the usual suspects, this bacteria got past an area in the mouth into an area that it normally isn`t,
and that can happen when you do surgery. I don`t know what kind of surgery this was, did he have to cut through the gums to get to the teeth, was it a
simple extraction, was it an impaction. But nonetheless, this bacteria, if it gets past certain areas of the mouth and deep into the bony tissues or
submental space, little spaces that communicate with other parts of the body like the heart, then all sorts of infections can happen. You can
leave a hospital and get this necrotising fascitis. Although it`s very rare.
GRACE: Do you get it at the hospital? I recall one of the many times my father has had open heart surgery, a lot of people on his floor, not
him, got staph infection in the hospital and died.
BOURHENNE: Yes.
GRACE: I`m just wondering, is it on a dental tool, how does it get in the mouth?
BOURHENNE: It`s in the mouth already. But if it`s a drug resistant version.
GRACE: Why is flesh eating bacteria in the mouth already?
BOURHENNE: Well, it`s a streptococcus bug. When it gets into a certain area, it starts exhibiting that behavior of eating away at the
fascia. Again, it`s the wrong bug in the wrong space at the wrong time. It was the surgery, whether it was well done or not, I`m not sure, that
initiated this.
One thing I`d like to add is I wonder if, after you have surgery, we always tell our patients not to spin, rinse, suck from a straw or
cigarette, not to vigorously gargle, and being a musician, I wonder if the dentist mentioned to him, no blowing on a horn or clarinet, or any kind of
a musical instrument, at least for a week after the surgery, because that could have blown open a wound or popped open -- could have popped a blood
clot and created a dry socket. Of course, that lets the bacteria that are in the mouth, streptococci, staph, into those areas. And then all hell
breaks loose.
GRACE: So you say there could be a connection with him playing the clarinet if he played it. I don`t see how he could play it after getting
four wisdom teeth out. But that could be the connection. A flesh eating virus kills this school boy after a routine dentist visit.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: And now live to Coco, Florida, caught on tape, a giggly woman eats a bag of pot during a DUI bust.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She wiggles out of her handcuffs, reaches into the front seat, and steals the sandwich bag the trooper found in her car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The stuff you had in your seat.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then she eats it. She chews and nibbles and munches on some more.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The cops say she tried to hide what she had done, but her face was full of crumbs from marijuana.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: With me out of Ft. Lauderdale, Norm Kent, the president of National Organization to Legalize Marijuana. Also with me, Howard Samuels.
Dr. Samuels, addiction expert, CEO of the Hills Treatment Center and author of Alive Again.
First to you, Norm Kent. She`s caught on video eating a cellophane bag full of pot. But, to you, that`s okay. You want pot normalized. You
want it legalized, and that kind of behavior is just within the norm, pardon the pun? That`s okay?
KENT: You and I both know how stupid her actions were, because she took a simple misdemeanor and, by tampering with evidence, 12 grams of pot,
she has turned it into a third-degree felony and now is facing five years probation.
GRACE: You left out the other part, Dr. Samuels. She drove down a highway the wrong way, crashing into cars, all the while under the
influence of pot.
KENT: Under the influence of alcohol, Nancy.
GRACE: Dr. Samuels, that was directed to you.
(CROSSTALK)
SAMUELS: Put it this way. To be intoxicated on one substance, like alcohol, is one thing. To combine that with something like pot, you`re
taking the intoxication up to another level. So the depth perception is extremely bad. The delusions, if the pot is extremely potent, she could be
hallucinating. The combination of the pot and the alcohol could be a very dangerous for anybody, especially Nancy, when they`re driving a lethal
weapon, which a car is when you`re intoxicated. Horrible.
KENT: Doctor, doctor, you know that marijuana is not a hallucinogen. It wasn`t in 1970 when you were arrested, and it is not now. So let`s be
realistic. She foolishly, from the back of a police car, jumped in the front and tried to eat cold marijuana. It couldn`t even get her high. It
only got her a new charge.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: To Lourdes Instillo (ph), investigative reporter in Tampa. I understand in the first crash, her tire comes off and then she hits
somebody and leaves the scene. Is that right?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. So, she was driving a big Dodge Ram. She actually was going the wrong way on a major interstate, hit another driver.
That driver is okay. But actually lost her wheel in that first crash, was oblivious to that. Drove for another two miles until she finally ran off
into a ditch. And that`s when law enforcement caught up with her. They were aware of the first crash and they caught up with her after she finally
ran off the road after losing her wheel and after other drivers called to report sparks flying out from under her truck, which is sort of ironic when
you think about what happened next.
GRACE: What else, Stacey Newman?
NEWMAN: How did she even get to reach out there and get that marijuana? She sent the trooper back to her truck to get her flip-flops
because she was missing them when she was arrested. He was gone. That`s when she reached into the front and got her little marijuana munchie.
GRACE: Okay. Norm Kent, Howard Samuels, Stacey just brings up a point. So, it was all about the flip flop, Norm Kent. You`re saying this
is normal behavior, and now, because she`s eating pot, she has several more felonies than she had to start with, in addition to a hit and run, Norm.
KENT: She`s accused of being intoxicated and impaired while driving a lethal motor vehicle, and she should be charged accordingly. The question
I would ask Dr. Samuels, to draw upon his vast experience as an addictionologist, one of the most reputable in the country, isn`t it better
if we treat this as a public health issue rather than locking her up? Do you think your life was enhanced, Doctor, by your own personal experience
of getting locked up for drug possession?
Doctor?
SAMUELS: First of all -- first of all, the locking up of me actually helped me get sober. Because, actually, the law enforcement did an
intervention on me to show me how out of whack my life had become. So hopefully, the same thing can happen with this woman. Obviously she`s in
serious psychological trouble by having to do all this damage, and hitting cars, and making such a horrible decision in her life.
GRACE: Everyone, let`s stop and remember American hero, Air Force Major Radolfo Rodriguez, 34, El Paso. Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Air Force
Combat Action Medal. Stepped up at a young age to take care of his family when his father passed away. Mother, Minerva, two brothers, widow, Karen.
Rodolfo Rodriguez, American hero.
Tonight, you asked for it. Here they are, photos of me with the twins and their first trip to Eagle national 4-h center where I was a 4-h camp
counselor. What a day. Everyone, thanks for being with us. Drew up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night,
friend.
END
