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Nancy Grace
Was Hot Car Tot Murdered by Dad?
Aired June 24, 2014 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police investigating the tragic death of a 22-month-old little toddler boy, Cooper, seemingly left
alone for hours in a baking hot car by his father. Tonight, police say Daddy`s story riddled with inconsistencies, this after Daddy breaks down in
tears after finding his son dead in a boiling hot car, screaming in grief when he sees the baby boy.
Bombshell tonight, was the tot who dies after Daddy forgets him in the boiling hot car actually murdered?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Left him in the back of his SUV while he went to work.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His 22-month-old son was dead probably long before he tried to resuscitate him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Opened the back door, pulled this child out. I laid him on the concrete, tried to resuscitate him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Leaving him inside the hot SUV for seven long hours.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And to Virginia. He`s already got seven children, that we know of. Take a look at this guy. Is he daddy material? Well, now he`s
charged with child endangerment, fathers` groups in an uproar. But I agree with the judge, this guy needs a vasectomy yesterday!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After fleeing the scene of a car crash along with his 3-year-old son, a Virginia man, who reportedly fathered seven children
with six different women, will get a vasectomy in order to get a lighter prison sentence.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Theoretically, at least, prevent him from being able to do something like that again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, legions of "Twilight" saga fans across the country in shock after Bella, aka Kristen Stewart, sues the world`s queen
of comedy, Joan Rivers, after Rivers cracks jokes about Casey`s (ph) alleged affair with her married director in "Snow White" (INAUDIBLE) Word
to the wise. The truth is a complete defense. I`m just saying! And I`m going Vegas odds on Joan Rivers to get out on this one by a nose.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Joan Rivers is claiming she`s been threatened with a lawsuit by "Twilight" star Kristen Stewart over a joke in Rivers`s
upcoming book "Diary of a Mad Diva."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And if you read the book, you`d realize it`s a comedy book.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That was video from "Twilight: Breaking Dawn" from Summit Entertainment.
And to Michigan, a desperate father going door to door, begging for help to find his missing little boy after seemingly nobody will help the
dad. Well, Tonight, we turn the case over to you, our viewers.
Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. Cops investigating the death of a 22-month-old toddler, Cooper, seemingly left alone for hours in a hot car for hours by
his father. Well, tonight, police say Daddy`s story is riddled with inconsistencies. Now, this comes after Daddy breaks down in tears. He had
to be physically restrained when he goes out to the parking lot to find his son dead in a hot, baking car, the father screaming in grief. But tonight,
was the tot actually murdered?
Well, straight out to Victor Blackwell, "NEW DAY" weekend anchor. Victor, when I first saw about the father basically bent over in grief,
trying to resuscitate the little boy, I was so distraught for that father and mother, I couldn`t even look at the story, Victor.
VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: You know, Nancy, and what we`re learning today from Cobb County police is that right after he was over --
bending over crying and screaming there, he started cursing and screaming at police, we`re told by a spokesperson for the department, and he had to
be restrained and placed in the back of a car and then taken to the police department, where he was questioned. And after some of those -- the
answers to those questions did not make sense, that`s when they arrested him and charged him with child cruelty and felony murder, Nancy.
GRACE: OK, see, this is what I don`t understand. There`s a huge on- line petition going on right now. With me, Victor Blackwell.
Let`s go out to Ninette Sosa with 106.7. Ninette, a huge on-line petition right now saying, Don`t charge this father, this was an accident.
What exactly happened that day, Ninette? Take it from the beginning.
NINETTE SOSA, NEWS RADIO 106.7 (via telephone): At 9:00 AM, this father is going to work at the Home Depot, whether it`s at the corporate
office or a satellite office. Irrespective of that, this child`s day care was within Home Depot. It`s Little Apron (ph). That`s where the child`s
day care is. So you go to work, you`re dropping your child off at the same place. He failed to do that, allegedly failed to do that. Four o`clock
rolls around...
GRACE: Whoa, wait, wait, wait! Ninette, are you telling me the day care is at the same place as where he works at Home Depot?
SOSA: That is my understanding. It`s within Home Depot.
GRACE: OK. That makes a difference in my analysis. I`m glad you told me that. Go ahead.
SOSA: Four o`clock rolls around. He gets ready to leave. He even drives away, and then he notices, Oh, my God, what I have done, pulls over
to another parking lot, where he jumps out of the car. And it`s a busy shopping center, like. And he`s just screaming. What have I done? Oh, my
gosh. You know, What I have done here?
People come running to him. One witness says that when he pulled the child out of the car that the child remained in the sitting position, which
-- is it possible that rigor mortis had already set in? And then if that`s the case, how many hours had the child really been seated in that carseat?
GRACE: Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Ninette Sosa, I`m hearing something brand-new right now. Now, I`m coming
into this on the side of the father, although under the father`s own facts, this still equals a negligent homicide. That`s the law. I`m not making it
up. I`m just telling you what the law is.
But are you telling me that this child was observed when the father took him out, his body, the child`s body was stiffened, was stiffened with
rigor mortis?
SOSA: Yes.
GRACE: Because if that`s true, that child had been in there a lot longer than seven hours in a hot car.
SOSA: We actually have the man who called 911 on tape that told us Cooper was sitting in the same position on the curb, as if he were still in
the seat.
GRACE: Uh-oh. Uh-oh! Uh-oh! OK. Ninette Sosa, Victor Blackwell, don`t go anywhere.
I want to quickly go -- I`m going out to the lines for just one moment to Dr. Michelle Dupre, medical examiner, forensic pathologist, Columbia,
South Carolina. Dr. Dupre, I`m a JD. You`re an MD. But I know this much. If the child had just died, say, in a hot car within three or four hours
before, I don`t believe rigor mortis would have already set in. I`m not talking about livor mortis, I`m talking about rigor mortis, where you
stiffen up.
DR. MICHELLE DUPRE, MEDICAL EXAMINER (via telephone): Well, Nancy, that really depends. Children are much smaller. Rigor mortis can set in
pretty quickly, especially with high temperatures. And temperatures in hot cars can get very, very high, as we all know.
GRACE: OK. Well, I`m glad you told me that because I thought just the opposite, that bodies didn`t get stiff for a period of hours. Now,
give me a ballpark, Dr. Dupre, when rigor mortis sets in and your legs stick straight out, and even though you`re laying down on the ground,
you`re still in a sitting position.
DUPRE: Right, Nancy. Rigor mortis is going to show up in the position that you`re in when you expire. You will remain in that position,
whether you`re straight out or whether you`re in a sitting position. And it can take effect within 6 to 12 hours, depending on the temperature and
the environmental conditions.
GRACE: Whoa! Buh-buh-buh-buh! But you just said 6 to 12 hours. This is not 12 hours. This is not 12 hours. It may not even be 6 hours.
So why was the child already in rigor mortis?
DUPRE: Nancy, there could be other factors involved here. It may have been longer than that. It may have been a misunderstanding by the
person that observed that. We really don`t know until we see that autopsy report and find out exactly...
GRACE: OK, well, we -- according to the father`s own story, it was not longer than that. The father`s story -- correct me if I`m wrong -- out
to you, Victor, Victor Blackwell. The father`s story is he was supposed to take the baby in that day. And he was getting in, I think, at 9:00-ish,
and he got back out to the car at 4:00. And at the very most, that would have been what, seven hours?
BLACKWELL: Seven hours plus. But Ninette brings up a point, that in a conversation I had with a spokesperson for Cobb County police, two
statements he made did not correspond until this very moment. First he told me that if I were asking him if the boy was in the car on the way to
work that day with his father, that`s a fair statement.
Right after that, I asked, OK, so he went in the car, he was in the car at 9:00 AM? He says, I cannot confirm, as previously reported, that
the boy was put in the car at 9:00 AM.
GRACE: OK...
BLACKWELL: So until now, it did not make sense that he could have possibly been in the car longer. But with the reporting that Ninette is
offering, quite possibly, it`s where you`re leading.
GRACE: OK. Let`s just throw a few ideas out there. Everybody, for those of you just joining us -- let`s see the scene, Liz. If you don`t
mind, let me see that in full. This is the vehicle that the child was left in. It`s a 22-month-old boy. The father takes the boy to day care that
day. He goes on to his job at Home Depot. He`s been working there a couple of years. He comes out about seven hours later, seven-ish, forgets
the child`s been in there baking in a hot car.
Now, an eyewitness states -- to Ninette Sosa at 106.7 -- when the dad takes the baby out of the car, rigor mortis, the stiffening of the limbs
after death, had already set in.
OK, let me go to the lines. Nick -- hi, Nick. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good evening, Nancy. Thanks for taking my call. My question is that if you have -- like you and me both, we`re both
parents. You have the gorgeous twins. But the problem is that when you leave your house in the morning, which parent puts the child in the car to
go to work?
So basically, was it the mother who put Cooper in the back seat, or was it the father who put Cooper in the back seat? Because these dads
would not forget that he has a 22-month-old precious baby in the back of his car if he has actually put Cooper in the back of the car himself.
There is just no way that you can forget your actions first thing in the morning if you`re on your way to work, school, wherever.
And that`s the hardest thing that I don`t understand, is how he could have forgot if he put the child in the back seat himself.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Witnesses were overwhelmed as they watched the silver SUV turn sharply into the parking lot at Acres Mills Square. His
22-month-old son was dead probably long before he tried to resuscitate him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cobb County police say the child`s father was supposed to drop him off at day care, but instead went to work, apparently
forgetting his son was in the back seat strapped into a child...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK, I`ve still got Nick in Atlanta with me. Nick, I want to follow up on your question. To Ninette Sosa with 106.7. Ninette, did the
father usually take the son to day care? Was that his normal routine?
SOSA: My understanding is that they alternated days with taking their child to day care. So whether that was the dad`s day or they swapped,
that`s unclear. But the parents alternated days.
GRACE: OK. Let`s follow through with what we know about this. Ninette Sosa, you`re saying that, originally, the father -- he attacked the
police? Why did he get mad at police when they got there?
SOSA: And his -- well, his whole demeanor seemed to fluctuate because there`s one witness that says he`d be crying and crying, would calm down,
look around, and no tears, and then again break down and cry. And this was while he was being detained in the cop car. Other witnesses say this was a
distraught father, raising his hands up to the sky, you know, What have I done? What have I done? So there`s conflicting reports there, but there`s
definitely one witness who was not buying his anguish.
GRACE: And what else did that witness say, Ninette?
SOSA: That particular witness was bothered by the behavior as he sat in the back seat of this police cruiser, basically, only because he would
go in and out of these crying jags. He`d get calm, check out what was going on, and then start crying again just like that, off and on.
GRACE: OK, let me go to Janette Fennell, president, founder of Kidsandcars.org. She`s an expert with cases like this. Janette, thank you
for being with us. It was 88 degrees outside. How hot would it be inside a car with all the windows up?
JANETTE FENNELL, KIDSANDCARS.ORG (via telephone): Well, on a day like that, in the Cobb County sun, within 10 minutes, the temperature would have
gone up 20 degrees. And you know, being that the child was in there that long, it could have easily gotten to 120.
GRACE: Whoa!
SOSA: One point I wanted to make, though, about the baby and rigor mortis is, with that type of temperature and a child that young,
unfortunately, that child could have been dead in the first half hour.
GRACE: Wow! OK. But even so, Janette Fennell, president of Kidsandcars.org -- even so, from 9:00 to 4:00 if he was dead in the first
hour, say at 10:00 o`clock, that still only leaves six hours in which full rigor to set in and the child`s arms and legs be sticking straight out when
they laid the child down on the ground.
Unleash the lawyers. Joining me, Robert Schalk out of New York, Trinity Hundredmark out of Atlanta. First of all, to you, Schalk. We all
know that as tragic as this is, even under the father`s own story, which police are now questioning -- why are they questioning it, Schalk? I don`t
know. Maybe they got the autopsy and he did not die of heat stroke. Maybe there`s surveillance cameras and they show the father first pulled up
without the baby. Maybe they pinged his cell phone and he was in a lot of different areas than from home to work. I mean, maybe they pinged him the
night before at 2:00 AM somewhere.
ROBERT SCHALK, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right.
GRACE: There could be a number of reasons...
SCHALK: Absolutely.
GRACE: ... other than inconsistent statements. But we all three know the law on criminal negligent homicide. And even under his statement, this
is still negligent homicide.
BLACKWELL: Well, I agree with you, at worst, it`s criminally negligent homicide, Nancy. But the issue that I have is if you look at the
charging documents -- and I pulled them -- he`s charged with child cruelty first degree, which requires the willing deprivation of sustenance.
They must know something that they`re not telling us. The authorities are not releasing enough information for us to make a -- you know, an
examination of whether the facts are sufficient here. And they also charged him with felony murder.
GRACE: That`s right.
SCHALK: So they believe that they can prove this child cruelty in the first degree to get their felony murder. So...
GRACE: You now what`s interesting with felony murder is you have to prove the underlying felony.
SCHALK: Right.
GRACE: And what do you make, Trinity Hundredmark, of their underlying felony?
TRINITY HUNDREDMARK, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I mean, to me, it means that they think he intentionally did this, that he willfully withheld
sustenance, that he put him in the car with the understanding that he was going to die. And I think that that`s a very serious charge that they`re -
- that they`re threatening (ph) he`s done.
GRACE: OK, Michael Christian, exactly what are they claiming? Everybody, when we`re talking about felony murder -- let me quickly tell
you what that is. Felony murder -- here`s an example. You go in with your buddy to rob a bank. You get the money, you`re leaving, you turn around
and your buddy opens fire and guns down two tellers. You`re, like, What? That wasn`t part of the plan. I just came to get some money.
No. No, no, no, no! Felony murder is this. When you commit a felony, robbing a bank, and a death occurs as a result of that felony,
you`re responsible for murder one under the felony murder theory.
OK, Michael Christian, in a nutshell -- in a nutshell, Michael -- what`s the felony murder theory here?
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): The felony murder theory is that he was, indeed, guilty of the first degree cruelty to
a child, that somehow, he caused this death by neglecting this child, being cruel to this child, and that as a result of that, this child died and it`s
felony murder.
GRACE: Well, that`s my question. Is the cruelty, Michael -- is the cruelty leaving him in the car, or is there some other kind of cruelty
they`re alleging? That`s my question.
CHRISTIAN: They`re just not saying at this point. It`s very frustrating because the police just aren`t saying.
GRACE: OK.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: A 22-month-old baby boy -- there he is, Cooper -- his dad takes him to day care, supposed to, instead, he says he forgets and leaves
him in the car, and he dies. He only comes out and discovers the child at least seven hours later. He is prostrate with grief, screaming, crying.
There`s an on-line petition to force the district attorney to drop the charges. Nobody believes this dad intends it. But now we learn in the
last hours, police say his story is riddled with inconsistencies.
Straight to Ninette Sosa and Victor Blackwell. Ninette, first to you. Did nobody in a Home Depot parking lot -- and let me tell you, this
happened in Atlanta, right?
SOSA: Yes.
GRACE: That`s the biggest business in the state of Georgia, according to our research. That parking lot should have been crammed with people.
What, nobody heard a child screaming, crying, nothing? I mean, if I saw a kid in a car alone, I would not leave the car until I got somebody there.
SOSA: Nancy, you also have security. There was that question, what about surveillance cameras? There`s that question. But most importantly,
and what I found curious, was the public information officer here for Cobb County, when he made the statement that they`re not going to confirm that
the child was even in the carseat at 9:00 AM.
GRACE: OK, that`s a problem, Victor Blackwell, "NEW DAY" weekend. Victor, cops are saying, We don`t even know if he was in the car at the
get-go.
BLACKWELL: Nor will the say, Nancy...
GRACE: That`s very unusual for cops to put that out there.
BLACKWELL: Nor will they say that there was no stop between Justin Harris leaving home and going to work, and then going from work to this
parking lot, where he pulled out his child. One other thing...
GRACE: I don`t know what you`re saying. What did you just say? There was no stop?
BLACKWELL: Did he go somewhere else before -- between leaving home and going to work at Home Depot?
GRACE: Oh, you`re saying...
BLACKWELL: We asked, was there another place that he went.
GRACE: ... did he stop?
BLACKWELL: Yes.
GRACE: Did he stop? Are you saying he did?
BLACKWELL: There`s no confirmation. There were certain things that I asked that I was told by this public information officer, Absolutely not,
no, we`re not going in that direction. But in this question of, was there another stop, was there another place, he simply said, We can`t confirm
that information.
GRACE: OK, Victor, please...
BLACKWELL: We`re not going to go in that direction.
GRACE: Please. I`ve been in the crime business for a long time. Don`t even worry when the public information -- they never tell you
anything.
(CROSSTALK)
BLACKWELL: He was the one that told me what we know thus far. One other thing...
GRACE: I`m surprised they told us anything! You managed to get that out of them. What were you about to say?
BLACKWELL: What I`m going to say is, you asked about what is the underlying felony here. And possibly they think something`s going on?
What I got from this officer was -- and I wanted to read the quote -- "I`ve been in law enforcement 34 years. What I know about this case shocks my
conscience as a police officer, a father and a grandfather." That was from him directly. I mean, quite a personal statement there.
And then I asked, Is this heat stroke, essentially? He said that they`re still working to find out what the cause was and would not confirm
that they`re going in the direction of heat stroke.
GRACE: Give me that quote one more time, please, Victor. What did the cop say?
BLACKWELL: He said, "I`ve been in law enforcement 34 years. What I know about this case shocks my conscience as a police officer, a father and
a grandfather."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Now to Virginia, this guy`s already got seven children that we know of from six different moms. Not judging. But now he`s charged with
child endangerment. Fathers groups tonight are in an uproar about this. But go ahead, get mad. I still agree with the judge. This guy needs a
vasectomy yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A Virginia man convicted of child endangerment will get a vasectomy in order to get a lighter prison sentence. Jesse Lee
Herald, who reportedly fathered seven children with six different women, was facing years behind bars.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Joe Beck with the Northern Virginia Daily. Joe Beck, seven children, six mothers, not judging. What I want to hear
about is the child endangerment and the order he will have a vasectomy. Tell me about the endangerment.
JOE BECK, NORTHERN VIRGINIA DAILY: It stems from an accident that he was in, in late December with a 3-year-old boy who turned out -- has been
identified as his son. And he was just driving along on the road near his home, and he ran the car off the road and hit an embankment and rolled
over.
GRACE: He ran the car off the road. Wait, wait, wait. So he`s got his child in this car and just happens to run the car off the road? What
caused him to run the car off the road, Joe Beck?
BECK: There`s no record as to what was the problem, why he -- why the car went off the road, hit an embankment and rolled over. But that`s all
the information that`s been provided.
GRACE: Okay. So he had a crash. And the child was in the car with him?
BECK: That`s right. A 3-year-old boy.
GRACE: Okay. Is he keeping up with all his child support payments?
BECK: I don`t know what the status of his child support payments are. Speculating here, but I would guess he`s going to have a pretty hard time
doing that while he`s in prison.
GRACE: I don`t know that he`s doing it while he`s out of prison. Matt Zarrell, how many times has this guy been arrested? Is he keeping up
with child support payments? And how did this in a nutshell how did this come about that he now has been ordered to have a vasectomy as part of his
plea deal?
ZARRELL: Okay now, first let me go through the child support. To my shock we did not find one instance where he has failed to pay or has been
brought to court or arrested for child support.
GRACE: Wait a minute. Hold on, Matt Zarrell. Don`t get crazy. Just because there`s not a court record of it does not mean he`s met all his
child support payments. That just means that the mothers have not taken him to court.
Go ahead.
ZARRELL: The big one to look at is he has a prior guilty plea or conviction for felony hit-and-run, which is similar to the incident that
happened here. And in that case, Nancy, the 3-year-old that was in the car with him had blood drawn from the accident. The father and the 3-year-old
fled the scene on foot as the cops arrived on scene. The boy was brought to his mother`s house and then he fled again as the cops arrived. So this
is part of a plea deal with the prosecutor. The prosecutor actually came up with this idea, Nancy.
GRACE: Hold on just a moment. Let me tell you something that was stated in open court, quote, "this man needs to be able to support the
children he already has when he gets out of jail." Now, to me that says he`s not supporting his children. But what we know is this. We know that
he`s going to have a vasectomy. We know he`s got seven children by six different mothers. Out to the lines, hi, Lisa. What`s your question?
Caller: Can you please tell me, Nancy -- hello, sorry first.
GRACE: Hello, love.
Caller: Hello. Why did he have so many kids with so many different women, and why didn`t he use protection?
GRACE: That`s the age-old question, Lisa. Why doesn`t a man use a condom? You know, I`d like to know the answer to that myself, Lisa. But
the sad fact is that even after six children by six different women, he then had another. You know, you`d have to ask him. But I don`t think he`s
going to have a very good answer. Back to Joe Beck, Northern Virginia Daily. So let me get back to this. So he has a crash. He runs from the
scene with his 3-year-old. So how does he land back in court to get back under the judge`s jurisdiction so the judge can order him to have a
vasectomy? Which I`m on your side, Judge. Go ahead. Tell me, Joe.
BECK: Well, the state police searched for him for about a week or so, and then he just turned up at the sheriff`s office about a week later and
turned himself in. And he was incarcerated ever since then.
GRACE: Did you know he was driving on a suspended license when he had the crash with the baby in the car? I`m just throwing that in. People
don`t get their licenses suspended for nothing. I mean, Joe Beck, is your license suspended right now?
BECK: No. No, it`s not.
GRACE: Yes, neither is mine. That`s for a reason. I stop at the stop signs -- or try to. So he`s already on a suspended license. He
crashes his car with his 3-year-old in there who gets hurt. Then they run, they try to run away from the scene. Now, what did you say? How did he
get back in court to get ordered to have a vasectomy?
BECK: Well, of course, the case just reached a point where they were ready to make a plea agreement. And the commonwealth attorney explained it
to me that this was kind of a spur of the moment that she offered the --
GRACE: Wait a minute. You can`t just drag somebody back into court because you -- on the spur of the moment feel like it. Matt Zarrell, what
was he doing back in court? The hit and run happened a while back, why is he back in court?
ZARRELL: The hit-and-run, you`ve got the two hit-and-runs, the prior one. This one was a current case still pending. They were getting ready
to go to trial. He actually agreed to a plea deal where he would get the vasectomy. And Nancy, he`s stuck with the bill. He is the one that has to
pay for this. He also has to get it done within a year of his release from prison. And he also has to not only raise the money but he cannot get it
reversed at all in the five years that he`s on probation.
GRACE: Now, according to his relatives, they say he works as a roofer and in a poultry plant, and he has supported at least some of his children.
Now, the relatives can`t say exactly how many children there are. Nobody really knows. But tonight we`re going with seven. What more do we know,
Matt Zarrell?
ZARRELL: We know that the judge has authorized this, the prosecutor was actually ticked off because the judge made a comment in the prior
hearing about his concern for the children, and that`s when the prosecutor came up with this plan.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Robert Schalk, Trinity Hundredmark. Robert Schalk, do you have a problem with him getting a court-ordered
vasectomy?
SCHALK: Yes, I do.
GRACE: Starting with you as opposed to Trinity.
SCHALK: I do. Because sentencing conditions in every state are meant to prevent future criminal behavior. Being a bad father is not a crime.
So use the resources you have --
GRACE: Really? Being a bad father as in not paying child support or abusing or neglecting your children?
SCHALK: We don`t have any evidence or any information being released in this case that he hasn`t paid the support. If the wife doesn`t want it
--
GRACE: I`m not arguing about this case. You just said being a bad father is not a crime. Actually, it is a crime. It`s called child
neglect, it`s called child abuse, it`s called failure to thrive.
SCHALK: There`s no allegation of that in this case.
GRACE: But you can`t make the statement that being a bad father is not a crime, because oftentimes it is a crime. Can we get back to the
snippy snippy, the vasectomy?
SCHALK: Correct. My issue, when did we go back to 1940s Germany and start social engineering, deciding who and who cannot have kids? This is
not the purpose of the court. Use the resources you have in the courts. Use classes, take away his child visitation. You can use the courts to
rehabilitate.
GRACE: Take away his child visitation? I guarantee you those moms, all six of them, would probably love him to spend more time with the
children. I don`t think that`s the issue.
SCHALK: Why would the mothers -- if this guy`s such a threat, why do mothers want them to be with their father? That`s my question to you.
GRACE: You`re so out in the weeds. Let`s get it back on the ball field. Trinity, I`m going to try with you. The guy already has seven
children by six different mothers.
HUNDREDMARK: Sure, Nancy. And while that conduct in and of itself is not necessarily ideal, I would agree that punishment is supposed to deter
criminal behavior. The criminal behavior in this case is DWI, hit-and-run, child endangerment, I`m not sure how having a vasectomy affects any of that
criminal behavior. Just because he has a vasectomy does not mean he`s not going to go drink and drive a car tomorrow. He`s still got those
capabilities. It seems to me that some other punishment would fit the crime more.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. Tonight legions of Twilight saga fans across the country in shock after Bella, aka Kristen Stewart,
threatens to sue the world`s queen of comedy, Joan Rivers! Beloved comedienne after Rivers cracks jokes about Kristen`s alleged affair with
her married director of her one of her last movies, "Snow White and the Huntsman." Word to the wise, the truth is a complete defense. I`m just
putting it out there, and I`m going to go Vegas odds on Joan Rivers to win this one.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Joan Rivers, star of TV, stage and author, now the comedian says she`s facing the heat. But Rivers reportedly says Stewart
obviously hasn`t read her disclaimer. It`s a comedy book.
JOAN RIVERS: Which shows the sense of humor she has.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Which hits shelves in days.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Okay. Just remember, the truth is a complete defense. Right here you`re seeing video from "Twilight Breaking Dawn." That`s from Summit
Entertainment, and that`s what really catapulted Kristen Stewart to the top tier of movie stars. Now, Joan Rivers, beloved comedienne, this is what
she has to say about this threatened lawsuit.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RIVERS: Kristen Stewart obviously didn`t read our disclaimer, which is it`s a comedy book. And I can`t wait to get her to court because I want
to get a puppet, (inaudible) show me on the puppet where she thinks I claim she touched her director. So I am looking forward to that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s really suing you for--
RIVERS: Her lawyer contacted my lawyer. Yes. Which shows the sense of humor she has.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Zero.
RIVERS: Zero. And my answer to her was, be glad you`re not a Kardashian.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wow.
RIVERS: Because they`re mentioned a lot more in the book.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Okay. You know what? I want to be on that jury. I want to be on that jury. Okay. What she`s claiming, Kim Serafin, senior editor,
"In Touch Weekly," give it to us in a nutshell. What is Bella from Twilight claiming Joan Rivers did that hurt her so much?
SERAFIN: Yes, Bella, Kristen Stewart, is threatening to sue reportedly Joan Rivers for writing in this book saying basically Kristen
Stewart is a one-trick pony. Then she alludes to this indiscretion, as Kristen Stewart had said, with her director from "Snow White and the
Huntsman," makes a joke about it, saying you know, this is basically how she got her job, how she got her career, essentially.
GRACE: Wait, wait, wait. Wasn`t "Snow White and the Huntsman," okay I`m not going to say that out loud right there. Whole career by being able
to juggle a director`s you know what.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: So this is in Joan Rivers` book. Okay. This is not the first time that this has been discussed. Take a listen to what reports have been
about the alleged affair between Kristen Stewart and her married director.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Rob, it`s me. K.stew.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kirsten Stewart`s alleged affair with her "Snow White and the Huntsman" director Rupert Sanders.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s awful.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What happened?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rob Pattinson moved out.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to explain what I did. The whole having sex with my director thingy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Twilight" stars and real life lovers, Kristen Stewart and Robert Pattinson all smiles there on the red carpet. But will
their relationship survive a fling with a much older director?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t care what`s going on in Syria.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "People" magazine first breaking this news Tuesday night. It has left us wondering what does it mean for all involved,
including Stewart --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That is video from Barely Political, GMA, MSNBC`s Morning Joe and The Insider. She`s not suing them. She`s suing -- allegedly
threatening to sue Joan Rivers? Okay. Now, wait a minute. Let me get this right. Bonnie Fuller, editor in chief, Hollywoodlife.com. Isn`t it
true that the married director ended up getting a divorce over all this? If it weren`t true, then why did they divorce, that beautiful wife, Liberty
Ross I think is her name?
BONNIE FULLER, HOLLYWOODLIFE.COM: Absolutely. They are getting a divorce. And apparently Rupert Sanders tried hard to be forgiven but that
didn`t happen. Kristen also tried very hard to be forgiven. She of course was involved in a very long-term relationship.
GRACE: Wait a minute. To be forgiven? She`s claiming that Joan Rivers slandered her by talking about the sex affair, the alleged sex
affair. But if she asked for forgiveness, doesn`t that mean the affair happened? The truth is a complete defense.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: To Dr. Ish Major board-certified psychiatrist, author of "Little White Lies," Dr. Major, she has apologized for the sex affair with
a married man. They`re divorcing. So why would she pick a fight with the world`s most beloved comedienne, Joan Rivers, over a joke in a book?
DR. ISH MAJOR, MD: Nancy, that`s the big question. So I`m thinking with the humor aspect of it, being made fun of may make this sting a little
bit more. So that may be why she`s kind of reacting with such a heavy hand in this situation.
GRACE: Okay. Take a listen to Joan Rivers` audio book.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RIVERS: January 1st. Dear diary, this diary is my Christmas gift for Melissa and Cooper, and I`m more disappointed than I was on my wedding
night when I found out that my husband Edgar was half Chinese. And not the good half. And this diary`s not even from a good store. I was hoping for
at least a Cartier watch. I wouldn`t even have minded if it was spelled with a k.
I know. I know, it`s Christmas season and we`re Jewish, and we shouldn`t care about gifts. But indeed, if we did kill Christ -- and I am
not saying we did -- I mean, for all we know he could have slipped and fallen onto that cross. I mean, maybe the guy was clumsy. Maybe he drank.
But then something`s got to ease the guilt. And the more expensive that something is, the less guilty I feel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I`m getting on that jury and so help me, everybody, I`m voting not guilty, Joan Rivers. I`m on your side.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Tonight, a little boy is missing. Take a look at him. His father, running from door to door, knocking on doors for help, seemingly no
one will help Charlie Bothuell, father of the missing child. Sir, thank you so much for being with us. Is it true that you have been going door to
door trying to get people to help you find your son?
CHARLIE BOTHUELL IV, FATHER: It is. I`ve been going door to door since he disappeared. The night he disappeared, I called his mother after
I called 911. And we didn`t sleep. We did flyers. We called family members. And we have been doing everything we can since to get the word
out to get our son back home.
GRACE: How did Charlie go missing?
BOTHUELL: He was at home with my wife. It was Saturday night. And he decided to walk out of the house. He had -- you know, not done some of
his chores and instead of arguing at him or fussing or anything, my wife just said okay. When she says all right, that means I`m going to tell your
dad. I was actually working late Saturday night to get everything done because I planned on spending Father`s Day with the kids. I got a call
back from my wife at 9:45 saying that Charlie was gone.
GRACE: Out to Justin Freiman joining us. Justin, what more do you know?
FREIMAN: We know that this child has not been seen since leaving the home. There were dogs brought out to sniff around. They did lead to a
park near the home, and there the trail got cold.
GRACE: Back to the father of little Charlie. Sir, why do you think no one seemingly is helping you find your son? The thought of you running
from door to door trying to get help, it`s breaking my heart. And as you speak, Liz, could you please put up the tip line. There is a reward in
this case. What do you think, sir?
BOTHUELL: Actually there was a witness, someone who says they saw my son the night that he disappeared. And I forwarded that information to the
local FBI and the Detroit police. And the local media as well. We found her while we were out canvassing a nearby housing community.
GRACE: Where did she see him?
BOTHUELL: She stated that she saw him heading east on Lafayette towards his mother`s house.
GRACE: Let me get the description -- go ahead, sir.
BOTHUELL: I was saying, my son had walked off like this without my permission once before about two years ago. You know, but it wasn`t for
ten days. And the Detroit police had found him within three hours, and he was literally found the very next block over from his mother`s house. So
the witness, the track that the dogs that the FBI brought in, tracked him to and this witness all pointed him walking back towards that neighborhood.
But the city is a lot different at night than it is during the day.
GRACE: Let`s give that tip line. 313-596-1140. Please, help this father find his son.
Let`s stop and remember, Army Chief Warrant Officer IV Michael Slebodnik. 39, Clarksville, Tennessee. Purple Heart, four air medals,
four Army Commendation medals, loved military history. Dreamed of college and becoming a math teacher. Parents, Patricia and Willie. Widow, Tanya.
Six children. Michael Slebodnik, American hero.
And tonight, congratulations to friend and graduate, Christian. Eagle Scout, rugby player. Attending Harvard this fall. Here he is with his
parents, Travis and Marie. Sister Jenna. Congratulations. Everyone, thank you again so much for being with us. Drew up next. I`ll see you
tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
