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Nancy Grace
Charges Coming in Charlie Bothuell Investigation?
Aired July 01, 2014 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. The tragic death of 22- month-old toddler boy, Cooper, seemingly left alone for hours in a baking hot car by his father. But police say Daddy`s story riddled with
inconsistencies, after Daddy breaks down screaming, doubled over in grief when he finds his boy dead in the boiling hot car. But was the tot
actually murdered?
Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, is Mommy being eyed by police after she, too, admits to damning on-line searches, or is she covering up?
Was Mommy`s cell phone seized to search for texts between Mommy and Daddy? And is surveillance video set to emerge catching the whole thing on video
as we uncover Daddy`s story full of holes?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A parent`s worst nightmare.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Searching in-car death and how it occurs.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s devastating (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Leaving the toddler in a blistering-hot car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Close to seven hours.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just horrible.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Unthinkable mistake.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say Harris was seen at lunchtime returning to the vehicle.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That video from ABC`s "GMA."
And to Michigan. After we report a desperate father literally running door to door, begging for help to find his little boy, a stunning turn when
we break the news to Dad right here on our program his boy is alive in Daddy`s basement.
As we go to air, the FBI interviewing little Charlie as police prep to hand over that interview to Wayne County prosecutors. At this hour, is the
arrest of Dad imminent? And will Stepmommy follow?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Forensic interview of Charlie Bothuell.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The FBI says it will talk to the once missing boy who was found hiding out in his basement.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No comment.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know he didn`t know he was in the basement (INAUDIBLE) at all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And then to California, a family thrilled when they find the perfect nanny on Craigslist, a sweet little old lady, who ends up
barricading herself in her room, only coming out when she smells food cooking, refusing chores and babysitting. After freeloading for weeks,
she`s fired. But get this. She refuses to leave, and the family actually has to evict the nanny from hell from their own home!
Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. First to Michigan. After we report a desperate father running door to door to find his little boy, a stunning turn. We
break the news to Daddy right here on our program his boy`s alive in Daddy`s basement.
Tonight, as we go to air, the FBI interviewing the little boy, little Charlie, as police prep to hand over that interview to Wayne County
prosecutors. At this hour, is the arrest of Daddy imminent? And in another bombshell, will Stepmommy follow Daddy to jail?
Straight out to Charlie Langton, reporter with WWJ news 950. Charlie, when I first opened this can of worms, I had no idea that this would be the
way it all is playing out. When I read the father was desperately bamming on doors to get help to find his son, no media, nobody would help him, I
wanted to find little Charlie. And now everything has turned bass- ackwards.
The FBI interviewing little Charlie about what?
CHARLIE LANGTON, WWJ (via telephone): Well, Nancy, the FBI wants to, first of all, find out if there`s consistencies (INAUDIBLE) the other
people the FBI interviewed. The FBI has been involved in this. This is a joint task force, that whenever a child goes missing longer than X amount
of time, the FBI comes in. But the FBI interviewed the grandmother. The FBI interviewed the father. And they found what`s already been filed in
court documents. The FBI wants to complete the investigation.
But we are hearing, though, that the charges against probably Dad and Stepmom will be coming, or at least presented to the Wayne County
prosecutor`s office by tomorrow afternoon.
GRACE: Everybody, at this hour, we have learned the FBI in the middle of what is called a child forensic interview. Children are handled
differently than adults when they are interviewed, and victims specifically of crimes are also handled differently. Based on what little Charlie is
telling the FBI, Wayne County prosecutors are expecting to be handed the interview as early as tonight or tomorrow morning.
OK, Charlie Langton, WWJ, I asked you what they`re asking him about, and you told me something about they`re comparing his statement to other
statements. But what I`m asking you specifically about -- let`s get this thing back to the middle of the road.
Is the FBI asking him about bloody PVC pipe? Is the FBI asking, Who put you in the basement? Were you forced to stay down there by your
stepmother, or was she hiding you, trying to protect you from your father? Because Charlie, forcing a child to stay in a basement, living off nothing
but cereal and soda, doesn`t sound like helping the child to me.
LANGTON: No question about it. The FBI`s asking all those questions. The FBI has got to get some consistency. And Nancy, FBI (INAUDIBLE) as you
say, they have special people that interview children. Children -- he`s only 12 years old, so the FBI wants to get it right.
But even without the little boy`s interview, it seems to me anyway, and a lot of people in Detroit, that there`s still enough charges to bring
at least abuse and neglect charges. But again, that`s up to the Wayne County prosecutor`s office. But anything, it seems, that the FBI gets, and
especially if the FBI can answer those very pointed questions, that`s only going to be even more trouble for Dad and Stepmom.
GRACE: They got a lot of explaining to do because, number one, if Stepmommy is hiding the boy in the basement to help him, why isn`t she
calling police or getting the boy out of the bad situation? I want to hear why is there blood on that PVC pipe?
Very quickly, Clark Goldband, the former defense attorney has actually stated something about eczema as explaining away the blood on the PVC pipe?
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: He has, Nancy. He`s told us and he`s also told the local press there in Detroit that this child has
eczema and may have actually scratched the eczema that may have caused the blood that`s reportedly been found.
GRACE: In the last hours, everybody, we get new video of Charlie. Let`s see the video of little Charlie. What can we learn from the video?
Now, this is at his biological mother`s home, local reporters there all over the place. You see a blur there, and this is going to be Charlie at
his biological mom`s door. Take a look through there. He`s looking out, actually making eye contact, smiling, smiling at local reporters.
This is what we know. He`s alive, he`s well, he`s with his bio mom still. That`s where she lives, two miles away from the stepfather --
excuse me, from the father and the stepmother.
Back to Charlie Langton, WWJ. I want to get into why they`re eying Stepmommy as far as arresting her, as well.
But first to the lines. Robin in Alabama. Hi, Robin. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey, hi, Nancy. I think I have the same questions that you have. I mean, the boy is 12 years old. So he`s old
enough to be able to tell the authorities, I would think, you know, what happened. How did he get there? Why was he placed there? Did his mom put
him there, the stepmom, the dad? I mean, those are the questions that I have. I just don`t understand why it`s taking so long to try to figure out
-- you know, to get the information from him because he should be able to tell them exactly what has taken place.
GRACE: Well, Robin in Alabama, first he went to the hospital. Then they brought him home from the hospital. He came to his bio mom`s home,
got him acclimated there. And I think if they had tried to speak to him too soon, you would have had an objection by the defense, if this ever does
go to trial, that he was pressured into making a statement.
But now I agree with you, Robin. Plenty of time has elapsed to get a statement from a 12-year-old. I mean, I have sadly had to put children as
young as 4 and 5, 6 and 7 on the stand in felony cases. Did I want to do it? No. Did I have to do it? Yes, I did, to seek a verdict that speaks
the truth.
Unleash the lawyers. Joining me tonight, Alex Sanchez, defense attorney out of New York. Also with me, Ashley McMahon (ph), defense
attorney out of Atlanta.
First to you, Alex Sanchez. If Mommy, Stepmommy, forced this child to live in the basement -- I mean, obviously, the father was running door to
door to find his son. If she forced this child to live in the basement on cereal and soda, she`s looking at abuse and cruelty charges, Alex. How are
you going to explain your way out of that one?
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: There may not be a way to explain a way out of this one. But certainly, the most important information, as
Robin said before, speak to the child. See what the child has to say. You know, it`s not outside the realm of possibility that this child could come
up with some completely different scenario, like he snuck into the house and wanted to stay away from his mother`s house for some reason. We don`t
know for sure. But that is the prime witness in the case. Let`s see what he has to say.
GRACE: OK, well, that doesn`t make sense because he wasn`t living with the mother anyway. So he wasn`t trying to stay away from the bio
mom`s home. So that`s not even a possibility. I`m also very interested about -- let me go to Dr. Tim Gallagher, medical examiner, forensic
pathologist. Dr. Gallagher, apparently, in the child`s chest is a circular bruise, multiple bruises on the child`s buttocks, his behind, that come
from a long cylindrical object. Will they be able to -- if they`ve got the PVC pipe, be able to match those bruises up to the PVC pipe?
DR. TIM GALLAGHER, MEDICAL EXAMINER/FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST (via telephone): Oh, absolutely, Nancy. (INAUDIBLE) do that in several
different ways. They can use DNA that they collected from the pipe to match that with the child, and they`ll be able to determine that that pipe
did come in contact with the skin. And also, the pattern, the pattern of the injury and the pattern on the pipe should match perfectly if that was
the instrument used to give him the injury.
GRACE: It`s amazing that the FBI and dogs didn`t find the boy in the basement. Let`s take a look with video, with photos we have obtained of
the tunnel. Not only is there a hallway that goes between these condos, but apparently, there`s this underground tunnel.
Charlie Langton, so there`s a hallway and an underground tunnel that connects all the condos together? Why?
LANGTON: Well, it`s just the way these condos were built. These are older condos, although in a nice area of Detroit. But they also lead to
the outside. Now, maybe Charlie -- we don`t want to speculate, but Charlie -- he was found in a barricaded place down in the basement, but without any
kind of -- there`s no evidence that he went to the bathroom. There was no evidence that there`s a lot of food.
I mean, there`s something strange about why the basement and why Charlie told the -- the...
GRACE: Right.
LANGTON: ... in a kid (ph) park (ph) interview that he was placed in the basement by the stepmom. So something is there. Charlie`s already
made a statement in this case about that basement.
GRACE: Guys, at this hour, the FBI is completing an interview with little Charlie. This interview is then going to be taken by the police
straight to the Wayne County prosecutors. You see the father and the stepmother holding hands as they leave another proceeding, a court
proceeding. Surely, they`re getting their stories straight. But will little Charlie`s statement blow their stories wide open?
This as we learn Charlie`s sister has come forward and stated, regarding that extreme workout regimen placed on little Charlie, she was
forced -- his sister was forced to run a mile a day, as well.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: These are photos of Charlie`s hiding spot in the tunnel that runs underneath the family`s condo, sources telling us they
believe Charlie was down there the entire time, sneaking upstairs to eat when he could.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police have used the word "barricaded." This wasn`t a secret room.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say the 12-year-old couldn`t have constructed the barricade, which included a 55-gallon container, on his
own.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Are the arrests of Daddy and Stepmommy imminent? This child, little Charlie, found alive, barricaded in the dad`s basement. Did the
stepmommy force him to live there? Right now, the child`s speaking with the FBI. This after a series of bruises found on the child`s chest, on his
behind.
And we also learn that Charlie`s sister reveals that she, too, was forced to endure a very strict workout regimen after reports emerged that
little Charlie was forced to do 4,000 steps on an elliptical every day, and it was during that intense workout Charlie disappeared.
Clark Goldband, what do we know about what the sister said about running a mile a day?
GOLDBAND: Yes, Nancy, first of all, I think it`s important to get out there -- she`s standing by her dad and she is supporting him. Now, she
says she was an only child for 10 years, and her dad was very, very adamant about health. He wanted her to run one mile a day. That was the exercise
routine. She claims -- she told our show that it`s because he believes in health and the family has a history of diabetes. And she says she recently
stopped that exercise routine now and has gained now a little bit of weight. But...
GRACE: OK. That`s good to know. So the question was, was the sister forced to run a mile every day? That`s my question. Charlie`s sister. Is
that correct?
GOLDBAND: She didn`t say she was forced, she says it was part of a routine.
GRACE: A part of a routine implemented by who?
GOLDBAND: Her father.
GRACE: OK. Now, that took some doing. Charlie Langton, let me get back to you, WWJ newsradio. What can you tell me about the sister claiming
the father had her run a mile a day, too?
LANGTON: Well, it`s awfully odd. I mean, she`s only 20 -- she not that old. She`s 21, I believe. But this was a forced routine. We believe
it`s a forced routine that -- a young person to be made to do that? That just doesn`t seem like a normal -- a normal for -- normal for a kid,
teenagers, to run miles because they might be a little overweight.
It shows that there`s a very overbearing father here that really wants to get his way, and maybe even to some extent brainwash the kids as to
believing that this is good. There`s no doubt this daughter now is standing by her father. No doubt about that.
GRACE: You know, it`s amazing to me, Charlie Langton. And yes, I put the case out there. I wanted to help the father. But now that reports are
emerging that the boy is covered in bruises, his own grandmother said he looks like a, quote, "cancer patient," he hasn`t had enough to eat. The
bruises reportedly match up to a PVC pipe in the home that has blood on it.
At this hour, the FBI has just completed -- we believe just completed a very long forensic child interview with this child to find out, one,
where those bruises and scars came from, where the blood came from, was the pipe used to beat him, and did the stepmother force the child to live in
the basement on practically no food at all? That`s what we`re waiting to hear.
Out to the lines. Laura in California. Hi, Laura. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Yes, my question is, did the father ever have a polygraph given to him?
GRACE: Actually, the father had a polygraph given by the FBI, as I recall. And it was inconclusive, is what we were told. The stepmother was
offered a polygraph by local police and she refused it. I don`t know that the FBI ever offered her a polygraph. I know she refused the local
polygraph.
Right now, that interview likely has just been completed. Take a look at these cops looking at him talking. Look at the one detective in the
suit. Check it out, the look on his face as the father`s laughing and crying. He`s, like, What?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Is the arrest of Stepmommy and Daddy imminent in the case of Charlie Bothuell V, the boy found alive in Daddy`s basement, extremely
thin, covered in bruises, claiming his stepmommy put him down there? Is her defense going to be she was protecting him? If so, from what? Why was
there bloody PVC pipe in the home? Why were there bloody clothes? Are those facts actually true? All of this remains to be seen as we understand
local police set to bring this child interview straight to the Wayne County prosecutors at this hour.
Straight out to Detective Sergeant Scott Hanes (ph) with the Santa Rosa County sheriff`s office -- has interviewed many, many child witnesses.
In a nutshell, how will they handle interviewing a child? Because if the defense can show that they led the child on, if they asked leading
questions, the whole interview can be thrown out.
DET. SGT. SCOTT HANES, SANTA ROSA COUNTY SHERIFF`S OFFICE (via telephone): And that`s very correct. First off, you want to make sure
they`re in a safe, comfortable environment, that they`ll -- they need to be willing to tell their story in their own way. You want to stay away from
any type of leading or suggestive questioning and let them get that story out. You don`t want to have to do additional interviews.
And the main thing is them feeling safe that they can talk to you, and disarm them of any fears that they may have, that you`re going to keep them
safe. That`s the biggest thing.
GRACE: To Dr. Eris Huemer, psychotherapist at Dreris.com. Dr. Eris, another thing is, very often, children don`t speak the same language that
we do.
Everybody, you`re looking down in the basement in the home right now. Keep looking, and you`ll see more of the home.
Dr. Eris, when children speak, they may not remember, for instance, specific dates. They may say, Oh, it was when the Christmas tree was up.
Oh, it was right before the Easter bunny came. They may not be able to describe exactly in our terms what happened.
At this hour, we believe the FBI has just concluded a child forensic interview on little Charlie. What do they want to find out, Eris?
ERIS HUEMER, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, they want to find out what their relationship was, if this child was afraid, if he was put in any harmful
situations. And they will kind of get an idea of what these bruises really are, what really happened.
And by not asking leading questions, they need to make sure psychologically where the child is at because if this isn`t dealt with
immediately, this child will have psychological and emotional damage for the rest of his life.
GRACE: Everyone, at this hour, we are on standby waiting to hear the latest, the forensic interview of little Charlie going down in the last
hours, that interview being taken straight to Wayne County prosecutors.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Welcome back, everyone. The tragic death of 22-month-old toddler boy Cooper, seemingly left alone for hours in a baking hot car by
his father. In the last hours, is mommy being eyed by police after she too admits to damning online searches, or is she covering up? Was mommy`s cell
phone seized to search for texts between mom and dad as their son baked in the hot car? And is surveillance videos said to emerge catching the whole
thing on tape as we uncover daddy`s story full of holes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police said quote, Lenna Harris, the child`s mother, was also questioned regarding the incident and made similar
statements regarding researching in-car deaths and how it occurs. Friends and family grieve as they wait to find out if baby Cooper`s death was a
terrible accident or something more sinister.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: In about 48 hours, a hearing is set to go down in a court of law, it`s called a probable cause hearing. The district attorney can
either take this case to a grand jury for felony indictment or do a P.C., probable cause hearing and bind the case over to the correct court. In
this hearing the state must put forward a bare-bones case. What will be revealed? Why are prosecutors so convinced this was not just a tragic
accident? Also in the last hours, is mommy being eyed by police? Suspicions raised after mommy makes unusual statements at little Cooper`s
funeral and also admitting to damning online searches herself, searches recently made about what temperature is needed for a child to die in a hot
car.
Straight out to Martin Savidge, CNN correspondent. The hearing is set to go down. I understand not only will we hear the state`s bare-bones
case, they`re not going to lay everything on the table, but also a bond hearing will ensue? He`s going to have a chance to walk out of jail?
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN: Right. Assuming they get to that point. It depends really I guess on what is brought forward in this case. If the
point is made so strongly here that this suspect, Justin Harris, needs to be kept and kept without bond, it`s possible bail won`t be brought up.
However, if the case isn`t that strong, then yes, it`s very possible that bail would be argued, that`s something his attorney is going to ask for.
GRACE: Martin, Martin, please. If there is a defense attorney in that courtroom -- and I guarantee you there will be a horde of them, they
are going to ask for bond. Okay? It could be Charles Manson and they`re going to ask for bond, much less in a case where many people believe it was
an accident. I promise you someone is going to go, bond. Somebody`s going to raise it.
To Haisten Willis also joining us with Marty Savidge, from the Marietta Daily Journal, what can you tell us about telephones, iPhones,
computers seized? Do any of them belong to mommy? Because in this day and age, Haisten, and I can`t remember if you told me you had children or not,
but in the few hours that I`m gone, you should see how many texts I send. I send to everybody and anybody connected with my children. Are they okay?
What are they doing? Where are you? Send me a picture. Send me another picture. Blah blah blah blah.
So in all this time, whether mommy`s at work or not -- and we understand mommy is working. She`s a licensed dietitian. In all the time
that he left with the baby from that morning, from the time they went to Chick-fil-a and the Chick-fil-a people saw him take the baby out of Chick-
fil-a and put him in the car, to the time he leaves in the afternoon at 4:30, they didn`t text one time, Haisten? Not one time? Hey, I wonder how
Cooper is today. How did he act in the car? What did he eat at Chick-fil- a? Really?
WILLIS: That is surprising. I don`t have kids, but I am married, and me and my wife do text throughout the day very often. It`s very difficult
they wouldn`t text at least a couple of times throughout the day, you`re right.
GRACE: Haisten and Martin Savidge, please look over your search warrants. I`ve got a huge stack of them. Several iPhones were taken,
computers were taken, laptops were taken, Google Chromes were taken. Do any of those belong to mommy? Joining me right now, Ben Levitan,
telecommunications expert joining me out of Raleigh. Ben, let`s talk about texts, let`s talk about iPhones, Blackberries, texting from an iPad. What
can they retrieve?
BEN LEVITAN, TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXPERT: Well, all these devices are perfect witnesses. They keep track of all your activity and all your
locations throughout the day. And so what we`re going to find out is yes, daddy did research how hot does it have to be for a baby to die in a car.
But let`s look at the other context. What else did he research? And this may be the smoking gun that the prosecutor comes out with. It`s fine
to possibly this was a legitimate research. But what else? Did he look at other methods for possibly killing a child? The other thing is, you have
to look at behavior. Did mom and dad normally text all day and all of a sudden on this one day they didn`t text at all? I always look at this when
I look at people`s cell phones. Because people are creatures of habit. You text back and forth all day on a regular habit. If all of a sudden
that changes, what happened? It`s got to be something, Nancy.
GRACE: You know what, I hadn`t even thought of that, Ben Levitan, but you`re absolutely right. I even text, what did the twins eat? Did Lucy
eat as much as John David? Did they get enough? Did they drink their bottle of water? It goes on and on and on.
Another issue, Liz, could you please pull that map up for me real quick? Martin and Haisten Willis, please look at this. I was reviewing
all the distances. Let me make this clear. Daddy`s work is at Home Depot at a place called the tree house. And the daycare is in Home Depot at
corporate headquarters. And they`re a little distance apart, not far. But catch this. From Chick-fil-a to the parking deck, is, let me see the map
again, please. Is about a half a mile. It`s 1.5 minutes. Excuse me, 1 minute and 20 seconds from Chick-fil-a to daycare. Okay. Unleash the
lawyers. Alex Sanchez, Ashley McMahon, first to you, Ashley, how could he forget the child in one minute and 20 seconds?
MCMAHON: Nancy, this is a new parent. He`s probably a little bit sleep deprived.
GRACE: The child is almost two years old.
MCMAHON: Still, have you known a 2-year-old that slept soundly throughout the night every single night consistently? I haven`t.
GRACE: Do you have children?
MCMAHON: I do not have children myself.
GRACE: Let me just say, I know you do, Sanchez. And I bet many a night after you`ve been up half the night with your children -- I assume
you got up with them, too, as well as your wife -- you would get up and be in court at 8:00 in the morning or argue to an appellate court or try a
case. That`s the miracle of being a parent. You adapt to very little sleep. So I`m not buying the whole sleep deprived. He managed to go into
work and work without any incident. Did he not, Ashley?
MCMAHON: Yes, he did manage to go into work.
GRACE: Where`s your sleep deprived argument?
MCMAHON: But the question is, was he going through the motions that day? He just drove one minute. It`s not like he drove 35 minutes to a
daycare that was off site. He simply forgot the child was in the car and had a tragic accident.
GRACE: Wait a minute. Alex, another thing about the 1 minute and 20 seconds, if the child is awake in Chick-fil-a, the child`s not going to
fall asleep in 1 minute and 20 seconds. That`s not going to happen.
SANCHEZ: How do you know that? How do you know as soon as the child is not put in that car seat and the car starts going, the kid doesn`t
snooze off? I have two kids and they both fell asleep very quickly as soon as they were in that car. And by the way, there`s something you mentioned
before. You said the prosecution has a choice of either going to a probable cause hearing or going directly to the grand jury. If they`re so
certain about their case, Nancy, why don`t they go directly to the grand jury?
GRACE: I`ll tell you why. Please put the lawyers up. Because very often in cases that blow up, the district attorney wants to put it all out
in the public. Because right now -- and Alex and Ashley, this has nothing to do with the facts of the case. But let me tell you what`s happening.
The district attorney in that case, who I happen to know, I helped train him when I was a prosecutor, probably -- and I`m guessing here -- is
putting it out there for probable cause, so everybody can see this is not some kind of a railroad on Cooper`s father. Because already, Alex, there
are already these kind of ads coming up on Youtube blasting Vic Reynolds for taking on the case. Like he should just go, nothing happened and close
the case? This needs to go to a jury. And he`s already being blasted with suggestions he should be thrown out of office. Which is ridiculous.
The point is that`s why they`re having a P.C. hearing so everybody knows, OK, that`s why you`re bringing the case.
SANCHEZ: If he`s a public official, he should not be concerned with whether or not he`s going to get a bad line in the local newspaper.
GRACE: Oh, please. You know what? You can`t have it both ways, Sanchez. First you say why is he going to a probable cause hearing? I`ll
tell you. Because if he had a grand jury, then you, Alex Sanchez, would be screaming, oh, it`s a secret grand jury. They don`t want us to know the
evidence. So now that he`s having a P.C. hearing in open court, you`re now complaining, oh, why is he having a P.C. hearing?
SANCHEZ: I`ll tell you why he`s going to the probable cause hearing.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: He`s going to the probable cause hearing because he does not have a particularly strong case. And he`s hoping to throw the judgment
onto the judge, Nancy. You know I`m right about that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: In the last hours, we learn is mommy being eyed in the death of little Cooper, who seemingly has a heat stroke in a baking-hot car left
there by his father. After unusual behavior reported at the funeral, as well as a damning statement that she too looked up Internet searches about
how much temperature is needed for a child to die in a hot car, is she covering up with those statements? It`s happened before. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The computer was left on all the time, so a lot of the times, I would come home, Casey would be on the computer and ask her
if I could get on for a few minutes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All of this stuff about chlorophyll and chloroform, you had told the prosecutors about that back in 2009, did you
not?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is this testimony anything new?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, sir. I did tell the detectives and I did tell the state`s attorney`s office.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We could net forget the case of tot mom Casey Anthony charged with the death of her 2-year-old little girl Caylee, when her mother Cindy
Anthony went on the stand and tried to convince jurors that she had looked up chloroform and how to create homemade chloroform. You`ll recall,
chloroform found in tot mom`s trunk, apparently where the child`s dead body had been.
Back to Martin Savidge and Haisten Willis, Martin Savidge, the iPhones, the Google Chrome that is just going to be to watch things on
television with. But multiple computers, all of this gathered by police, what was it at the funeral that struck people so odd?
SAVIDGE: Well, I think the primary thing that was considered odd was the list of things she put together that she said her child would not have
to go through. She referred to it as a happy list that he wouldn`t have to go through it because the child`s dead.
GRACE: You`re right. That`s one of the things. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am happy a list of things my son will skip. His first heartbreak. I won`t have to see that. Junior high and high
school, I didn`t like it. Who to sit with at lunch in those awkward middle school years. He will not have to suffer through the death of his mime and
granddad, the death of me and Ross.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And that coupled with talking about what a great dad the father had been, it`s raising suspicion. And now we know iPhone texts are
being searched to find out what the two were talking about the day the child died. To Haisten Willis, Marietta Daily Journal, Uncle Matteo`s
Pizza is where he took the child out of the car. Is there surveillance video?
WILLIS: I believe there is surveillance video outside of there. It`s a very popular shopping center in a heavily congested area. Perhaps there
were some iPhone footage taken at the scene.
GRACE: There`s Uncle Matteo`s, a Verizon. A Subway. There`s got to be video. There`s Sprint, there`s a Honey-Baked ham. Somebody in there
has video that`s going to emerge. I wonder if we`re going to see that in the hearing that`s set to go down. Martin Savidge, what do you expect
prosecutors to show? Will they show the texts or lack thereof? Will they show the surveillance video? What do you expect to happen in the hearing
that`s set to go down in about 48 hours?
SAVIDGE: We know that we`re going to get the lead investigator that`s going to take the stand. He`ll be the sole witness that will be speaking
for Cobb County authorities. And yes, I would expect that if they have video, we would likely see that video. On top of that, the communications
that took place between parents and whether there was communication between the father and someone else. There has to be more than just an Internet
search.
GRACE: Also another thing that may emerge, Martin Savidge and Haisten Willis, is surveillance or electronic tracking that may be in daddy`s car.
I`m talking about GPS, I`m talking about looking up a Mapquest. Where did he go? Did he go straight from Chick-fil-a? Did he go straight to work?
We don`t know.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Switching gears, now to California, a family thrilled when they find the perfect nanny on Craigslist. But after freeloading for
weeks, the sweet little old lady is fired. But then she refuses to leave. The family actually has to evict the nanny from hell from their own home.
Charles Feldman, KNX, what happened? I understand the nanny would barricade herself in her bedroom, wouldn`t get out unless she smelled food
cooking that the mommy made for the whole family.
FELDMAN: Well, that, Nancy, is at least the story that the family gives, and the nanny has a very different story to tell.
(CROSSTALK)
FELDMAN: The family`s story is that they put an ad on Craigslist that in particular Mrs. Rockemonte (ph) was starting a business, that she wanted
somebody in the house, a nanny to take care of her three kids when she wasn`t at home. And along comes Diane Stratton (ph), who is a 64-year-old
lady, pretty articulate, well spoken. The kids took a liking to her. At some point apparently even considered her sort of a grandmother figure.
And by the way the family tells it, it was an ideal match, at least initially for the first couple of months, and then they say things took a
drastic turn.
GRACE: With me right now, the sister of the mother embroiled in this nightmare. Julianne Ibarra is with us. According to your sister, what did
the nanny do or not do?
JULIANNA IBARRA: According to my sister, everything was great in the beginning. Diane was awesome. She helped around the house. The first
time I met Diane, she actually was helping around the house. It was my niece`s first birthday. She was doing dishes. I was helping her dry them.
She was telling me about her family. She was great. Then all of a sudden, she just stopped.
GRACE: Stopped. I`m not getting the point. She`s great, that`s all I am hearing.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Isn`t it true that she quit working, she barricaded herself in the bedroom, would only come out when your sister cooked meals, and she
could smell them. Wouldn`t baby sit, would not clean up. Then after she is fired, she refuses to leave.
IBARRA: To leave the house.
GRACE: That`s what I`ve been told.
IBARRA: After she has been fired, she stopped helping my sister around the house. She was complaining. She said, you know, doing this is
too much for me. But it was only a few hours out of the day.
GRACE: Isn`t it true that we learned she has been living in various shelters and in her car for nine years and has a history of lawsuits?
NEWMAN: You`re right about that, Nancy. She filed so many lawsuits, including against her own son, her sisters. She is on a list in the state
of California saying that she is just filing too many lawsuits. And now she is threatening another one related to this live-in family.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: The so-called nanny from hell insists that none of this happened, but Julianne Ibarra, the sister of the mom embroiled in this
controversy, didn`t your sister believe she was actually going to have to file eviction papers to kick this nanny out of the house?
IBARRA: Yes. And she did file.
GRACE: She actually filed eviction papers? The only way she could crowbar her out of her bedroom?
IBARRA: Was to file. And she did. And the court threw it out.
GRACE: Whoa, OK. So everybody, when you`re out there hunting baby sitters and nannies, word to the wise.
Let`s stop and remember American hero, Army Private Vincent Winston Jr., 22, St. Louis, Missouri. From a military family. Got the Bronze
Star. Loved reading. Favorite movie, "Full Metal Jacket." Dreamed of being a cop. Parents, Angie and Vincent Sr. Two brothers. Vincent
Winston, Jr. American hero. Thank you again for being with us tonight. Drew up next. See you tomorrow night, 8:00 Eastern. And until then, good
night, friend.
END
