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Nancy Grace
Tot Died after Dad Left Him Inside Car; Dad in Hot Car Death Was Sexting
Aired July 03, 2014 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The child appeared wide awake and happy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What he was doing that day while the child was out in the car...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was having up to six different conversations with different women.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sexting.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No tears, no you know, real emotion coming (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Photos being sent back and forth between these women and the defendant during this day, while the child`s out in the car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. There were photos of his exposed penis, erect penis being sent.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, the 16-year-old girl, OK -- did she send him a picture that day?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Of what?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She sent a picture of her exposed breasts.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And did he send any pictures to her?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He did. He sent a picture of his exposed, erect penis.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He also did a search, "how to survive prison."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) it was called "child free." And "child free" is a -- people who advocate living child-free.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He wanted to live a child-free life, or there`s evidence to suggest that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. We are live at the courthouse at a dramatic courtroom showdown, where horrific details of the tragic death of 22-month-old
toddler boy, Cooper, seemingly left alone for hours in a baking hot car by Daddy. But tonight, was the tot actually murdered?
In the last hours, stunning and damning new details emerge. Daddy, in a court of law, there, listening, sitting stoically until evidence comes out
he`s sexting six different women -- sexting, sending pictures to women of his erect penis as his toddler boy, Cooper, bakes dead in the car at the
same time, evidence indicating the baby scratching his own little face, crying out loud, abrasions on the back of the child`s head as he likely
rocks, banging back and forth, calling out for Daddy.
We are taking your calls. Straight to the courthouse. Haisten Willis, "Marietta Daily Journal" -- Haisten, bombshells in court. And I was
watching him like a hawk, Haisten. And he sat there stoically, no movement, nothing, until it came out he was sexting six different women
after he leaves his child in the car. That`s the first time he snapped up and started talking to his lawyer, and the lawyer, Maddox Kilgore, jumps up
and objects.
That`s the first time he showed emotion, Haisten.
HAISTEN WILLIS, "MARIETTA DAILY JOURNAL": I picked up on that, as well. He didn`t seem to be bothered by some of revelations about the child, some
of that type of thing. But when it came to things that were about his own life, that`s when he seemed to be bothered the most.
GRACE: OK, let`s go in the courtroom. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you uncover anything of what he was doing during that day while his child was out in the car?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. What did you uncover?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was having up to six different conversations with different women, it appeared from the messages, from Kick (ph) mostly,
which is a messaging service.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And is that a computer-related messaging service?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And these conversations he was having with these females, were these -- of what nature were they?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The most common term would be sexting.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were photos being sent back and forth between these women and the defendant during this day, while the child`s out in the car?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. There were photos of his exposed penis, erect penis being sent. There were also photos of women`s breasts being sent
back to him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, did you actually -- have you located every one of these girls that he`s had contact with?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you located any of them?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ve located...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK, take a look at the defendant. The first time he registers any emotion is when all this comes out. Now he`s starting to look around.
Keep watching.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what did she say?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She stated she had first met Ross, and she knew him as Ross through Scout (ph), which is another messaging service, and that he
had met up and that he wanted to hook up with her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And did she talk to you and confirm the nature of what you saw on these chats back and forth?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, she did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Now I`m going to turn your attention. Was there also another girl that you met...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tons of objections have just been lodged. And you see the defendant now resigned to the fact that all of this is coming into
evidence, with his wife sitting one or two rows just behind him. He actually asks for bond, as if she`s going to let him back in the house
after this. But this is tip of the iceberg. The sexting is frankly not relevant to the death of the child in that baking hot car.
Joining us at the courthouse, Clark Goldband. We`ve all been in court all day long. Clark, what did you observe?
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, I have to tell you, you and I have been at this now about 10 years. This is the first court
hearing I can remember attending where you had audible gasps from the hundreds of people in the courtroom, and laughing. It was one of the more
bizarre scenes we`ve ever seen.
But Nancy, a lot of questions you`ve gotten on this very subject from our audience -- the life insurance. It came to light today there were, in
fact, two life insurance policies, one $2,000, the other $25,000, totalling 27 grand on this little child.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Veteran trial lawyer in this jurisdiction, Peter Odom. Also, Kirby Clements, veteran trial lawyer also in the same
jurisdiction.
First to you, Peter Odom. Now, call me crazy, but I don`t have life insurance...
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You`re crazy.
GRACE: ... on my children. What is he thinking, taking out life insurance policies on a toddler boy?
ODOM: Nancy, I was in court today. And I heard the even that the life insurance policy for $25,000 was taken out long before these events
occurred...
GRACE: In 2012, to be precise.
ODOM: Exactly. So you know...
GRACE: Two years.
ODOM: And the other policy was...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... you say that`s a long time ago. It was two years.
ODOM: Oh, it was...
GRACE: And we don`t even know the date.
ODOM: It was before...
GRACE: It could be less than two years.
ODOM: ... an Internet search. It was before the Internet searches. It was before -- and also, the life insurance policy...
GRACE: You don`t know that.
ODOM: ... the other life insurance policy was from work.
GRACE: You don`t know that! OK, can I ask you this?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He didn`t take out a life insurance policy...
GRACE: When your children...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: When your children were 22 months old, did you have life insurance policies on them?
KIRBY CLEMENTS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Those things come in the mail, Nancy.
ODOM: Why does that matter, whether I did or not?
GRACE: OK. All right. So I`m going to take that as a no. And Kirby Clements, those things do not just come in the mail. I`ve never once
gotten...
CLEMENTS: Really?
GRACE: ... a solicitation to buy life insurance on my children?
CLEMENTS: I get those all the time.
GRACE: On your children? On your children?
CLEMENTS: On my children.
GRACE: Now, you know what?
CLEMENTS: I understood the question. It`s on my children.
GRACE: You show me one! You bring one! We keep talking about...
CLEMENTS: I will do that.
GRACE: ... about motivation? All right. All right, gentlemen, let`s have a throwdown and talk about motivation. You want to pooh-pooh the life
insurance policy? You want to pooh-pooh him sexting and sending pictures of his erect penis while his child is baking in the car? Let`s talk about
his computer searches. And I don`t mean for underage girls. I am talking about searches for a child-free life, a child-free life.
Now, I know you guys were in the courtroom. But back to you, Clark Goldband. Explain to our viewers that were not in the courtroom, like all
of us were today -- tell me what he was looking up about a child-free life. And I`m going to get to him watching videos of people dying in a few
moments. But let`s just start with the child-free life.
GOLDBAND: Sure. And Nancy, these are all allegations from authorities. But what came out of this -- let me break it down. There`s this blog
called Reddit...
GRACE: Wait a minute! Wait a minute!
GOLDBAND: ... and you can post and ask questions...
GRACE: Wait a minute, Clark! Now, when you start up, These are all just allegations -- this is sworn testimony from the lead detective on this
case...
GOLDBAND: Yes, ma`am.
GRACE: ... who has sworn under oath to the judge, Judge Fox (sic), that he has searched the defendant`s computers and his iPhones.
GOLDBAND: Yes.
GRACE: And this is what he found.
GOLDBAND: Yes.
GRACE: All right? So this is sworn testimony, OK? Go ahead, please.
GOLDBAND: Yes, ma`am. You got it. There`s a blog, Reddit. On this blog, there`s tons of categories. He clicked on what`s called a childless
marriage or child-free life. And authorities say that he was exploring the posts in this blog about living with no children or not having any other
children, Nancy.
GRACE: OK. Another thing that came up in court today -- unleash the lawyers again, Peter Odom, Kirby Clements -- is he states to somebody, I
guess there at Chick-fil-A -- he puts the -- he goes into Chick-fil-A. He normally goes by himself. He takes the child into Chick-fil-A. Everybody
sees the child. He goes out to (ph) Chick-fil-A.
When he gets out of the Chick-fil-A, he says to somebody -- he kisses the boy and he says something about, You know, I always kiss him as we get into
the car because, you know, he might die. We might have a wreck. This may be the last time I see him, and I want him to know that I kissed him.
All right, you know what? That is just damning, Kirby Clements. How can you two sit there like, you know, you`re listening to PBS right now? I
mean...
ODOM: The facts are that`s what he said during his interrogation. That was after the fact.
GRACE: OK.
ODOM: He didn`t say that to someone at the...
GRACE: Yes. So he kissed his child...
ODOM: After the fact.
GRACE: ... at Chick-fil-A...
ODOM: After the fact.
GRACE: ... before his child dies. He`s saying that`s when he kissed him. And also, you know what else we learned, Peter Odom? We learned that with
this rear-facing carseat, he is almost even with the daddy. He`s almost even with the father`s body as the father is driving the car, Peter Odom.
I mean, how can you forget that?
ODOM: According to the policeman.
GRACE: Yes. And?
(CROSSTALK)
ODOM: It`s a subject of disagreement, Nancy. He told the police that he couldn`t see the kid from there. And really, it`s a matter of speculation.
GRACE: OK, you know what? I`ll tell you what Maddox...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was behind him, by the way.
GRACE: ... Kilgore should have done, the defense lawyer in this case, who`s a very fine lawyer, used to work in the Georgia attorney general`s
office -- he should have waived this preliminary hearing. And I`ll tell you why. Because before the preliminary hearing, there were about 11,000
people on an on-line petition to drop charges that thought maybe Daddy just had a tragic accident. What about it, Odom? But now that`s been
decimated.
ODOM: Nancy, I completely agree with you. And here`s why. The state really laid out a strong circumstantial case against him. It`s
circumstantial. There`s no direct evidence. But any question that this is just an innocent man has now been blown out the window.
GRACE: And...
ODOM: Now, there are still avenues of defense here.
GRACE: And Kirby Clements, another thing, I watched him very carefully. He sat stoically until the issue of him sexting and sending pictures of his
erect penis to other women -- one of them underage, by the way. That`s the first time he showed emotion. The detective had been up there talking
about the child`s dead body for an hour, and he sat there without even blinking an eye, practically!
But you say sexting and penis, and boom, he was angry! He said something to his lawyer. His lawyer jumped up -- Kilgore ran up and made an
objection. I think I would have just kept quiet because the more Kilgore objected, the worse it got. It just got worse.
CLEMENTS: But he had to do that. But his lawyer had to do that. And I just suggest, just because you don`t know what was going on emotionally as
he`s hearing this story about his son dying and his son`s death. -- that was very traumatic stuff. You can`t sit there and...
GRACE: OK...
CLEMENTS: ... tell your lawyer, Object to that. I`m just pointing out, Nancy, that the mere fact that his behavior seemed erratic to you does not
mean that...
GRACE: Really?
CLEMENTS: ... he was not truly grieving for his son.
GRACE: Oh, OK. All right. Let`s take a listen to what happened regarding the stench in that car when Daddy gets back in and then makes his way to a
movie. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he approach the car at any point at the scene?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: About how long after the defendant had pulled over?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Over an hour.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And when he approached the car and stuck his head in -- did he stick his head in?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When he did that, was there anything of note that he noticed an hour and 20 minutes after with the door open?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. There was a foul odor or stench coming from the vehicle.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, did you actually access that vehicle later, as well?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And why did you do that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We executed a search warrant on that vehicle later on that night.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you executed that search warrant and you went inside that vehicle hours later, did you notice anything?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. It smelled like -- there was a foul odor. It smelled like decomposition or death.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, just to prove the elements this crime (INAUDIBLE) did you speak with the ME about whether this child would have suffered
cruel or excessive physical pain?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. What did he say? Would it have been a painful death?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you notice any -- were there any injuries to the child`s face?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There were.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what were those?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The way it`s explained, there were several marks on the child`s face. It would have come from the child, or a scratch being made
while the child was alive and then not healing, not scabbing over or anything like that, and just -- soon after, he passed away.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were there any injuries to the child -- back of the child`s head?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. There were abrasions to the back of the child`s head.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These messages and these chats -- they start in the morning?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And do they continue throughout the day?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And when did they end?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: About 3:00 o`clock that afternoon.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So about an hour before he left.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Overrule the objection.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, the 16-year-old girl, were these chats -- or now 17 -- they started when she was 16?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did these -- were these sexually involved, as well?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They were.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Did she send him a picture that day?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Of what?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She sent a picture of her exposed breasts.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And did he send any pictures to her?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He did. He sent a picture of his exposed erect penis.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Not only do we learn in the last hours -- there you see the father, Ross Cooper (sic) in a court of law. And he`s getting disturbed because
all of his sexting with six different women while his child bakes dead is coming out in court, with his wife chewing gum two seats behind him.
Also, though, let`s get your mind off the sexting and the erect penis and all that for a moment. Another thing came out. Out to you, Haisten
Willis, joining us at the courthouse, "Marietta Daily Journal." We also learn that he looked at multiple videos of people dying, dying under all
sorts of unusual and odd circumstances. Who in their right mind would go from one video to the next on line, watching people die, in the throes of
death?
WILLIS: I was told by several people ahead of this hearing that I`ll be shocked today. And I can tell you that I was shocked by what I heard in
those hearings.
GRACE: Everyone, we are live and taking your calls. In the last hours, a dramatic showdown in a court of law, where we learned cops say a tot bakes
dead in a hot car as Daddy`s sexting six women and has taken out nearly $30,000 in life insurance on the tot.
Take a listen to this testimony.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He visited several sites. And these sub-Reddits -- it was people who die. And once again, it may not be the perfect -- but it`s,
like, people who die. And it shows videos of people dying. And it`s in all sorts of ways, from suicides to Iraq, executions, those type of videos.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, anything -- and looking at these sub-Reddits, turning your attention to less than two months before this child`s death,
did he go to any topics pertinent to this case...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Peter Odom and Kirby Clements, both former prosecutors, both now defense attorneys who practice in that courthouse.
OK, Peter Odom, who is looking up videos to watch people die, to watch them in the throes of death shortly before your own child dies because of your
actions?
ODOM: Two things.
GRACE: OK.
ODOM: First of all, that Web site`s out there. Lots of people that have not committed any murders look at it.
GRACE: Why? Why?
ODOM: I was snooping through...
GRACE: Why would you look...
ODOM: Listen to me! Listen to me!
GRACE: ... at people dying?
ODOM: Listen to me! I was flipping through cable the other day. What did I find? A television show called "1,000 Ways to Die," where they sketched
out and filmed and recreated all these ways people die. I hope no one ever arrests me for murder for watching that show.
GRACE: OK, you were...
ODOM: That`s some of the weakest evidence that the state came up with on that.
GRACE: ... flipping through. You did not look up the videos and then click on one after the next. And can I ask you, on "1,000 Ways to Die"...
ODOM: It doesn`t matter.
GRACE: ... does it actually show people in the throes of death? Don`t lie because I can look it up, Peter Odom. Did you actually sit there and watch
one human after the next in the throes of death? Did you?
ODOM: It was a show -- it was a show that re-enacted them.
GRACE: Yes, no?
(CROSSTALK)
ODOM: Did I do what he did? No.
GRACE: That`s like watching Jessica Fletcher in "Murder She Wrote," all right? It`s not the same thing.
Kirby Clements, are you now trying to tell me that that doesn`t make a connection in your brain, ding ding, Daddy looks up people in the throes of
death, and then suddenly, his child dies in a hot car?
CLEMENTS: It doesn`t make any connection, Nancy.
GRACE: No. OK.
CLEMENTS: And I`ll tell you why. Number one, Daddy`s not looking up videos of children dying in a hot car. That`s number one.
GRACE: Actually, he did.
(CROSSTALK)
CLEMENTS: They`re not showing videos of actual children dying in a hot car, Nancy.
GRACE: Put him up. Put him up!
CLEMENTS: They`re not showing videos of children dying.
GRACE: You just...
CLEMENTS: That didn`t happen.
GRACE: ... served it up to me...
CLEMENTS: They did not show...
GRACE: ... on a silver platter.
CLEMENTS: ... any videos of any child dying.
GRACE: You put it up on the Christmas tree for me! Thank you for the present.
CLEMENTS: There`s a video of a kid dying in a hot car, Nancy? Is that a video there (ph)
GRACE: Actually -- actually, not only did he look at people in the throes of death, he also looked up how long it would take, how much time is needed
for a child to die in a hot car.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: In the last hours, a dramatic courtroom showdown as this man, Ross Harris, in court facing allegations he left his toddler boy to bake in a
hot car as he sexts women inside of work at Home Depot.
Also, we learn not only did he look up video of people in the throes of death, he also looked up this. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. ERNIE WARD, VETERINARIAN: You have no control over what`s happening. You don`t understand what`s happening. You just know that your body is
getting so overheated that you can be in real danger. I mean, this kills. And it`s a lousy way to die.
OK, made it, 30 minutes, 30 minutes in a parked car with the windows cracked. The temperature right now is about 115, 116, really hot. What I
really wanted to set out to do was see how it felt to be left in a parked car if I were a dog. And I know what`s going on. I`m in control of the
situation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And with us, the man that made that video -- and it has become so significant in this trial because just prior to the boy`s death, Dr. Ernie
Ward, doctor of veterinary medicine, made this video to help create awareness of animals dying in hot cars. And this dad looks it up and
watches this just before his son dies in a hot car, left there by him.
Dr. Ward, thank you for being with us. What was the air temperature on the day you shot the video, and what were you experiencing?
WARD: Yes, Nancy. Like so many millions of Americans, I`ve been shocked by the developments of today. That video was shot on a typical Southern
day, 95 degrees outside. And the difference is all four windows in my car experiment were cracked. I don`t believe this toddler even had that.
GRACE: And the fact that this guy, this father, looks up your video just before he leaves his child to die in a baking hot car -- you were trying to
help people with your video, right?
WARD: And we have. And this video has saved countless lives. We`ve even passed legislation here in North Carolina to allow law enforcement officers
to do a better job at accessing dogs that are left in cars. So we know that it`s making a positive difference.
This is just a very -- you know, if these allegations are true, this is a very sick and depraved individual who accessed all types of information.
GRACE: You are seeing what father Ross Cooper (sic) downloaded and observed just before his own child dies in a baking hot car.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The child appeared wide awake and happy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What he was doing during that day while his child was out in the car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s having up to six different conversations with different women. Sexting. No tears, no, you know, real emotion coming
out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Photos being sent back and forth between these women during this day while the child is out in the car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. There were photos of his exposed penis, erect penis being sent.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now the 16-year-old girl, did she send him a picture that day?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Of what?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She sent a picture of her exposed breasts.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And did he send any pictures to her?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He did. He sent her picture of his exposed erect penis. He also did a search, how to survive prison. (INAUDIBLE) called
Child Free. And Child Free is a -- people who advocate living child free.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He wanted to live a child-free life or there`s evidence to suggest that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Breaking news tonight. Welcome back, everyone. The courthouse is just now emptying after a dramatic courtroom showdown. Ross Cooper in
court -- Ross Harris in court today facing charges he let his toddler boy, Cooper, die in a baking-hot car as he sexts multiple women sending pictures
of his erect penis as his child was dying. Not only this, and this is what is staggering to me.
Out to Clark Goldband and Haisten Willis standing by at the courthouse.
Clark, when I heard what the mother said -- OK. First of all, she goes to daycare to go pick up the child, can`t find the child.
GOLDBAND: Yes.
GRACE: And they go, well, you know, your husband never brought the child. The very first thing she said was, "Ross must have left him in the car."
Now, see, if I couldn`t find my husband or children, my fear would be they had a wreck, or are they somewhere, and I`m supposed to be there? Are they
at pizza or Lego and I`m in the wrong place?
GOLDBAND: Right.
GRACE: I would never think my husband left the children in the car all day. That`s the first thing she said. But that`s not it, Clark.
Clark, this is what really stunned me. So she goes -- she goes to the father. She goes to Ross Harris. He`s in the interrogation room. And the
first thing she says is, "well, did you say too much?" Now did I get that wrong?
GOLDBAND: Correct, Nancy.
GRACE: Did she say anything else first? Like pray for the baby. She didn`t even want to go see the baby. She wanted to go to her husband. I
mean, I can`t get my head around that.
GOLDBAND: No, Nancy --
GRACE: OK. You tell me.
GOLDBAND: No, Nancy, and that`s what -- sure. And that`s what has just come out right behind us here at the courthouse out here in Marietta,
Georgia. It was truly stunning. Authorities say she goes to the daycare to pick up the child. And when she`s at the daycare, she says, oh, no,
when she realizes the child`s not there, he must have left the child in the car.
But, Nancy, we learn that the employees of the daycare start to console her. Oh, no, no, no, that`s not -- you know, we don`t know that. I`m sure
maybe they went out for lunch. There`s a lot of explanations. But that was the first thing the mom said according to court testimony.
And Nancy, I want to tell you one thing that I`m not sure that everyone saw on camera. The D.A. was sitting in the first row behind the state. And as
the defense was pleading and pleading for this to be tossed out, one of the defense attorneys made a comparison to forgetting to leave your food in the
car. Food in a take-out container. And I turned to the D.A. and he ever so quietly shook his head from side to side.
GRACE: Comparing the boy to leaving food in the car. And also, another thing, I want to get this straight, Clark. Because maybe --
GOLDBAND: Yes, Nancy.
GRACE: I was trying to hang on every word. But the way I understood it, the mom -- and you were sitting, let`s see that picture. You apparently
were sitting right in front of her. I couldn`t tell where exactly you were. But there you are. She`s right behind you. I don`t know if you
realized you were sitting right in front of the mother in court.
GOLDBAND: Yes. It was a very unusual spot, Nancy. Yes, it was quite an unusual spot. Because she was right behind me. And the -- her husband,
the dad, was right in front of me. So I was kind of sandwiched between the two.
GRACE: Clark. Clark. Clark. Clark, did she cry?
GOLDBAND: You know, it appeared she did at times. It was hard for me to see because I had to turn over my shoulder like this. But there were quite
a few times her head was down, she was holding hands of those on her left and her right. There were times she was being consoled with an arm around
her shoulder.
GRACE: Clark, Clark, Clark, Clark.
GOLDBAND: There were times she was taking deep breaths.
GRACE: Clark, you`re saying her head was down. I`m asking you, did you see tears?
GOLDBAND: I personally cannot tell you that she cried, no.
GRACE: OK. I want to get -- I want to just make sure I understand this. Let`s go to the lawyers. Everybody`s been in the courtroom today, Peter
Odom, Kirby Clements.
Peter, did you hear this the way I heard it? That the mother finds out her baby is dead, OK? He`s baked dead in a car that daddy left him in the car.
She doesn`t want to go to the baby. She goes to her husband, who`s in police interrogation.
ODOM: And the police do what they often do.
GRACE: And the first thing she says is -- let me check. "Well, did you say too much?"
ODOM: That is one of the things she said. But as I heard the testimony live in court, they were having a conversation and he was telling her about
his statement to the police. She asked if he talked to the police. He acknowledged that he did. And the question that the officers said they
have on tape is, did you say too much?
GRACE: OK. Back --
ODOM: Well, your facts are correct.
GRACE: Back to you, Haisten Willis. If we`re going to split hairs, I`ll be happy to split hairs.
Haisten Willis, I don`t -- I don`t recall anything from today`s testimony where the mother goes in the interrogation room and she`s crying, she`s
hysterical, she`s screaming, she`s upset about the baby, she`s beside herself, she`s just found out her baby is dead. But she has the
wherewithal to say, well, did you say too much? That`s what I heard. Did I miss something?
WILLIS: That`s what I heard as well. And I actually was sitting on the same row as the -- as Leanna Harris was today. She had her head down at
times. I did not see her cry the entire time the hearing lasted.
GRACE: OK, Leslie Austin, psychotherapist, joining me out of New York. I know the defense is going to argue until their blue in the face. And
there`s no playbook for grief. All right? I will agree with that. But in line with that, I`m stunned the first thing that she says is, did you talk
to the cops? Did you say too much? How can you say too much? Your baby is dead. What does she possibly mean, did you say too much?
DR. LESLIE AUSTIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, Nancy, there`s no playbook for grief, but there is a reasonable expectation that you would be concerned
that your child has just died. Her focus is entirely on her husband and the police procedures. And there`s a pattern here of too much information
being revealed by not very smart parents. So yes, you`d expect her to show much more grief and not be preoccupied with the husband.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These messages and these chats, they start in the morning?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And do they continue throughout the day?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And when did they end?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Around 3:00 that afternoon.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So about an hour before he left.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Overrule the objection.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now the 16-year-old girl, were these chats of the -- or now 17, they start when she was 16.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did these -- were these sexually involved as well?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They were.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Did she send him a picture that day?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Of what?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: One of the first things we learn is that the father, Ross Harris, spent the morning sexting with six different women and sending pictures of
his penis erect to them. One of them has just turned 17. While his child baked in the car. But let`s not talk about his penis for just one moment,
and let`s talk about the forensics.
Because -- out to John Lucich, former criminal investigator, president of Koji Forensics, John, thank you for being with us.
John, a lot was made of the text that were sent that day, but noticeably it was stated that there were no texts during the day between him and his
wife. Now what I think they should -- but he was texting through interoffice texting with his friends and all of these women, sending naked
photos to them back and forth. I think they need to look, John, at his regular pattern of texting with his wife. Because if they both
purposefully didn`t text that day and they usually send 30 or 40 messages a day, I think that would speak volumes.
JOHN LUCICH, FORMER CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: Absolutely, Nancy. In fact, it`s going to tell you that they`re purposely not doing it to show that
they had no contact and this was planned. But you can see that it was planned long before. The forensic investigators who are assigned to do the
computer forensics on this case will be able to date and time every one of those searches. They`ll be able to date and time the dates of the
insurance company. They`ll be able to find out what he was doing online to look for insurance. What other searches he was doing and put this all
together.
There is no doubt what you`re seeing on all these digital devices, whether it`d be a cell phone or a computer or anything, is now coming together and
tying this up into one solid case against these individuals. And you can actually see him starting to live that child-free life that he was
searching for.
GRACE: You know, well put, John Lucich.
Back to Clark Goldband.
Clark, I did hear when the defense was cross examining, asked, Killgore asked about a 3:16 p.m. text that daddy sends to mommy, Leanna. And I`m
quoting. "When are you going to get my buddy?" But there was not a return text.
GOLDBAND: Yes.
GRACE: And the detective didn`t know anything about that. And when the wife goes to the daycare to pick up baby Cooper, the first thing she says
is, Ross left him in the car. I mean, nobody had told her that yet.
GOLDBAND: Well, and Nancy, when we were in court there appeared to be some confusion over if the dad was actually running late to see the movie or
wanted to leave early so he wouldn`t be late to see the movie. There seems to be some inconsistency over the nexus of that time.
GRACE: You know, you`re right, Clark, because at one juncture he told everybody he was going to be late, but then he told police he left super
early, before 4:00, to get to the movie. And then he drove for likes like seven, eight minutes with the stench of death in the car that was still
there an hour and a half later but he didn`t notice?
OK. We`re going to go straight back to the courthouse. But right now, "CNN HEROES."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOSH LUCAS, CNN HERO PRESENTER: CNN Hero Dale Beatty.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Since being honored as a "TOP 10 CNN HERO" last year, Dale Beatty and his group have nearly doubled their efforts to
modify or help provide homes for disabled veterans. With 1,000 applications received, the group`s new chapters will bring more neighbors
together to meet those needs.
TARYN DAVIS, CNN 2011 HERO: I come bearing widows.
COOPER: 2011 Hero Taryn Davis has now helped more than 1600 young military widows find a network of support. Last year she launched an education
program that empowers widows as they move forward.
JAKE WOOD, CNN 2012 HERO: I`m going to go through and I`m going to number the beds.
COOPER: 2012 Hero Jake Wood`s disaster relief group made up of military veterans has increased its network of volunteers tenfold. Now 16,000
strong, their teams have already responded to 12 disasters this year.
MARY CORTANI, CNN 2012 HERO: Pick up the pace.
COOPER: With the help of 2012`s Mary Cortani, dozens more veterans are managing their PTSD and moving forward in life with their service dogs.
CORTANI: There you go. Walk with confidence, relax.
COOPER: Cortani`s group is now employing veterans and has expanded its efforts to Southern California.
ROY FOSTER, CNN 2009 HERO: There will be no man left behind as long as we are this nation.
COOPER: In 2009 Roy Foster and his nonprofit have now assisted more than 7,000 veterans, men and women struggling with addiction and homelessness.
Their new job training and placement program has so far helped 50 vets gain employment. With new projects on the horizon, these heroes show that
service to community never gets tired. It just keeps growing.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Welcome back. We are live. Everyone just now filtering out of that courtroom. A dramatic showdown with horrendous and horrific facts
coming to light.
Did daddy knowingly leave his 22-month-old toddler boy Cooper in a hot car to bake to his death?
Joining me, Dr. Vincent DiMaio, forensic pathologist joining me out of San Antonio.
Dr. DiMaio, thank you for being with us. What do you make of the police officer saying that nearly two years later the stench of death was still in
the car. How could the father not have noticed it?
DR. VINCENT DIMAIO, M.D., FORMER CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER, BEXAR COUNTY, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: He had to have noticed it because that would have
been within a few hours because of the extreme temperatures. There would have been decomposition. The child would have loosened his bowels, there
would have been fecal material rotting in this close environment. The temperature would have been 40, 50 degrees higher than the outside
temperature.
And the temperature would have only taken an hour to go up that high. So within an hour the child was exposed to temperatures of 130, 140 depending
on how the car was oriented to the sun, maybe 150.
GRACE: You know, another thing, with me Dr. Vincent DiMaio, renowned forensic pathologist joining me out of San Antonio.
Dr. DiMaio, we heard testimony and I`m recalling all this off the top of my head where the child had scratched his face and it was an open wound, which
suggested to me he was scratching at his neck and it had not coagulated because the blood quit pumping. Also there were abrasions on the back of
the child`s -- back of his head. Well, I can imagine the child banging and banging trying to get out of that car seat at 22 months, screaming out for
his father.
What would that child have endured dying this way?
DIMAIO: Well, of course it would have been tremendous emotional stress. But it`s even worse than that because in the end the child would have gone
into convulsions. And you know, he may have been scratching his face and you know, banging his head while he was in convulsions.
And the heat also interferes with coagulation of the blood so there may have been some internal bleeding as well.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Welcome back, everyone. Just now everyone finally has left the courtroom.
Let`s go straight out to the courthouse. Standing by, Haisten Wills and Clark Goldband.
All of us have been watching the testimony today.
Clark Goldband, another thing that I notice is that the state really tipped their hand about motive, about having a miserable marriage and wanting to
have a, quote, "child free life." And I haven`t even talked about the money issue, that the life insurance policy was going to use --
GOLDBAND: Right. I was just going to say, Nancy --
GRACE: Go ahead, what?
GOLDBAND: Yes, Nancy, I was just going to say, you didn`t even mention there and you had just started to. the financial motive that came up in
this hearing as well. And authorities really started to hammer on that. The defense tried to counter by saying you haven`t seen the statements,
right? You haven`t seen the documents, right?
But Nancy, as you so wisely just said, you can see where this is going.
GRACE: Well, another thing to Haisten Willis, the state may not have the documents yet because you`ve got to get those through the bank, but didn`t
the wife say Leanna Harris say something about her husband charging up $4,000 dollars on some kind of a splurge purchase, and they had an argument
about it and they were watching their finances?
MILLS: She did, but it was a little bit vague. Sounded like it was 4,000 to me and that kind of -- you know, is it really 4,000? Is it
approximately? She did say he is totally in control of the finances in the home and she did not seem like she was happy about that.
GRACE: Another thing I noticed is that the father said -- unleash the lawyers, Peter Odom and Kirby Clements. After the mom walks into the
interrogation room with the police, the first thing mommy says, I`ve said this before, is did you say too much? Shortly after that the father says,
and I`m quoting, "I dreaded how he would look."
"I dreaded how he would look"? Why did he dread it? How did he have time to dread it? Why would he dread it, Peter Odom? He walked out the car.
He went to the car at lunchtime and made sure that his friends were with him from work. He insisted they take him to Home Depot to get light bulbs.
Then he threw the light bulbs, threw light bulbs, into the car. Came back out, somebody approached the car, he kind of got between them and the car,
and this is all on video. And wouldn`t bet the pedestrian get close to the car. He said, I dreaded how he would look. What about that, Peter, very
quickly?
ODOM: That could mean many things, Nancy.
GRACE: Really? What?
ODOM: I mean, you`re saying that it means --
GRACE: What did it mean?
ODOM: That he knew that the kid was there and he was dreading how he might look. It also could mean that he noticed the kid was dead then --
GRACE: OK. Hold on. They`re telling me we`re out of time.
ODOM: And those few minutes.
GRACE: Everybody, as we leave the courthouse now, it`s the end of the courtroom day. What a day in American justice.
To all of you like us who love America, happy July 4th. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
