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Nancy Grace
Father Beats Molester of 11-Year-Old Son
Aired July 21, 2014 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JEAN CASAREZ, GUEST HOST: We begin tonight with breaking news out of Daytona Beach. You will not believe this 911 call from a father who tells
police he beats up a child predator, leaving him in a bloody puddle, and it`s after he catches the man allegedly molesting his 11-year-old son. We
have the stunning 911 audiotape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was beaten by the father of the child he`s accused of molesting.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get an ambulance. He`s going to need one.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The father caught Frolander with his 11-year-old son.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As a father, I understand what he was doing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Black eyes, bruises and a busted lip.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) and I loved him (INAUDIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: The tragic death of 22-month-old Cooper Harris, left alone to die in a baking hot car. But was the toddler actually murdered? New
allegations tonight against the case of Justin Ross Harris. They`ve been trumped up. Does Home Depot surveillance video tell a very different
story? Tonight, investigators say they stand by the evidence we heard in court.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: About what time did they get to Chick-fil-A?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Around 9:00 o`clock.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ross Harris reportedly drove from Chick-fil-A to his place of employment.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On the surveillance video at Chick-fil-A, how does the child appear?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wide awake and happy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This trip took us under two minutes. Is this enough time to forget a child?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: And the mystery surrounding the disappearance of young pregnant Marine wife Erin Corwin. New developments as search warrants
reveal a possible new lead in the search, and an eyewitness claims he sees Corwin getting into another car before she disappears.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The search is on for the pregnant wife of a Marine corporal.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We know that she is out there.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Young pregnant Marine wife last seen heading out in her Toyota Corolla.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Detectives searched two apartments on base and two vehicles looking for DNA and more evidence surrounding Corwin`s
disappearance.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: And an update on a heart-breaking story we covered on this show last week, the teacher breast cancer survivor and mother of four hit
by an eight-pound rock on a family interstate road trip. Many of you have been asking us about the victim, how she is. Her husband joins us tonight
to give us an update. And this while a third and now fourth teen is charged in this horrifying case.
Good evening. I`m Jean Casarez, in for Nancy Grace. Thank you so much for joining us.
We begin tonight with a stunning 911 call out of Daytona Beach, a father telling 911 dispatchers he has beat his son`s alleged sexual
molester to a pulp, saying, You`re going to need to send an ambulance for him.
Out to Mark Starling, reporter and anchor with News 96.5 FM. Mark, start from the beginning with this case.
MARK STARLING, NEWS 96.5 FM (via telephone): Well, essentially, a group of people were at the house, friends playing video games. About 1:00
o`clock in the morning, the father left the house to go get some food. When he came back, he heard noises coming from the bedroom, and that`s
where he found 18-year-old Raymond Frolander on top of his 11-year-old son. And at that point, that`s about when the beating started to take place.
CASAREZ: And Matt Zarrell, NANCY CASAREZ producer, it is horrifying what is alleged in the legal documents that we have read. But what is the
father alleging that he saw when he walked into his son`s bedroom?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Well, the father told police that he saw his son with his shorts down to his knees and that
Frolander was laying in the bed with his erect genitalia sticking out of his boxer briefs.
CASAREZ: And this little boy is 11 years old, the alleged victim in this case. The perpetrator now charged with sexual battery of a child, 18
years old. And Matt Zarrell, where did -- where did the alleged perpetrator live? What was the relationship here?
ZARRELL: Well, it`s our understanding that he was a very close family friend, Jean, that he actually lived right next door.
CASAREZ: Wow. Everybody, we want you to listen to some of the 911 call. And this is the 11-year-old`s father as he was beating up the
alleged perpetrator, and he called 911 to get help for the perpetrator. Listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: 911. Where is the emergency?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My emergency is at (DELETED) I just walked in and found a grown man molesting (EXPLETIVE DELETED), and I`ve got him in a
bloody puddle for you right now, Officer.
911 OPERATOR: OK, sir -- sir, sir -- you`re at (DELETED)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
911 OPERATOR: OK, this is (EXPLETIVE DELETED) in what city?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Holly Hill.
911 OPERATOR: It`s in Holly Hill? And you`re at (DELETED)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. I want (EXPLETIVE DELETED) pedophile gone!
911 OPERATOR: OK. OK, sir -- OK, you said somebody was molesting...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was molesting (DELETED). When I walked in, his (EXPLETIVE DELETED) was out. He had (DELETED) pants down. I didn`t
proceed to ask any more questions, sir.
(CROSSTALK)
911 OPERATOR: OK, sir. I understand that. Is he still doing it now or has he stopped?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, absolutely not. He is nice and knocked out in the floor for you. I drug him into the living room.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: So you are looking at right there 18-year-old Raymond Frolander, the next-door neighbor. The father had left the house to go get
some food about 1:00 o`clock in the morning. And at that point, when he came back, he saw what he says his 11-year-old son was being asked and
endured to do.
With us tonight is the police chief of Daytona Beach, Florida, Chief Michael Chitwood joining us. Sir, first of all, a lot of people are asking
the question, because they understand the rage of this father, to walk in and see his little boy about to be -- and excuse me for saying this --
penetrated by the next-door neighbor -- but a lot of people are wondering why he wasn`t charged with anything.
CHIEF MICHAEL CHITWOOD, DAYTONA BEACH POLICE DEPARTMENT (via telephone): It was probably one of the easiest decisions I`ve ever made in
my 27-year law enforcement career. You have a father walking in on a violent felony being committed to his son, being committed to his son,
something that we have subsequently learned has been going on for the past three-plus years, something that the young man did confess to us on tape.
And the father, I thought, showed great restraint. I mean, he -- he - - he had a heat of the moment. There was passion involved. He didn`t strike him to cause serious bodily injury. I mean, he didn`t kick him
until he caved his skull in. He punched him, he knocked him out, and then he called police. And I think that 911 call, you could even hear the
passion and the outrage in his voice, not to mention the fact, this is -- this is somebody who was a trusted, very close family friend.
CASAREZ: All right. We have some callers this evening. Let`s go to Lisa in Canada. Lisa?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, hi, Jean.
CASAREZ: Hi, Lisa.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just want to ask quickly, please, is there proof there`s actually been sexual abuse? And also, how long has it been
going on for, please?
CASAREZ: OK, good question. Let`s go out to the police chief of Daytona Beach that is joining us tonight, Chief Michael Chitwood. First of
all, was there evidence of sexual abuse? And was a sexual assault rape kit done on the alleged victim?
CHITWOOD: A sexual assault rape kit was not performed because penetration did not occur. But based on our CPT, or child protection team,
interview with our victim, he alleged and outlined the type of sexual abuse that occurred since the age of 8 years old at the hands of our defendant.
Our defendant, upon being Mirandized, then told us what has been occurring for the past three years and the sex acts that occurred. And he
even went on to tell us that he, the perpetrator, was a victim of sexual abuse in California when he was living in a foster home. So he could
understand how our 11-year-old victim felt in this case.
CASAREZ: You know, let`s talk about -- this is a three-year period that this 11-year-old is alleging that he was sexually assaulted by the man
you`re looking at right now, an 18-year-old that has been arrested. Are you concerned at all that there are other victims in your community of this
man?
CHITWOOD: Absolutely. We are. Our investigation is far from closed. And I think that all of the totality of the circumstances, plus life
experience as a father -- I think every one of us in police work and involved in this investigation felt the same way, that it would be
inappropriate to charge a father for defending his child. Now, had he used a -- you know, had he gone and killed the guy, maybe it would have been a
different story. But based on his actions, we felt that it was -- it didn`t warrant charges. It just didn`t -- it didn`t. A father has a
right to protect his child.
CASAREZ: Well, Chief, you released this 911 call publicly so we can hear ourselves this frantic father as he finds his little boy, his little
11-year-old boy in a bedroom with an 18-year-old in sexual positions. Let`s listen to that 911 call.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: OK (INAUDIBLE) help on the way, OK? And you said the person who assaulted, he`s -- he`s not -- you beat him up?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, yes.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Send him an ambulance. He`s going to need one.
911 OPERATOR: OK. We got help on the way, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I appreciate it, sir.
911 OPERATOR: All right. Do not -- do not hang up on me. Stay on the phone with me until police get there. Are there any -- were there any
weapons involved?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My fist and my foot.
911 OPERATOR: OK, no guns, no knives, anything like that from anybody?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely not, sir.
911 OPERATOR: OK. I got -- I`m sending fire, evac, and I got police on the way, OK? And how long ago did this happen?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I walked in -- from the moment I`m talking to you now, it`s been 15 minutes.
911 OPERATOR: OK. And the person -- he`s unconscious? Where is he at right now? Where is the person who -- where is the person -- where`s
the person (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s on my living room floor. He was my (EXPLETIVE DELETED)!
CHITWOOD: OK. I got help on the way. I`m keeping you on the phone with me (INAUDIBLE) get there, OK? This is (DELETED), correct?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir.
CASAREZ: And joining us right now from Florida is Dawn Estrella. She is actually the stepmother of this 18-year-old that is being charged with
sexual battery. And by the way, in Florida, this is a capital felony. He could spend the rest of his life in prison.
Ms. Estrella, thank you very much for joining us tonight. First of all, you know him, and have you known him to sexually assault a child or an
adult, anyone at all before?
DAWN ESTRELLA, STEPMOTHER OF ALLEGED MOLESTER (via telephone): No, never. He`s been living in California only since -- or Florida since
March. So people saying it`s been happening for the last three years, Raymond has been in California for three years. He only got here in March.
CASAREZ: So you`re saying that for the last three years that they did not see each other at all, that the victim...
ESTRELLA: No.
CASAREZ: ... was in California and he was in Florida, the 18-year- old?
ESTRELLA: The 18-year-old was in California.
CASAREZ: So are you...
ESTRELLA: Living with his father.
CASAREZ: Are you alleging, then, that the 11-year-old and the father of the 11-year-old are lying?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, the father of the 11-year-old said he`s been trying to set this straight with the press. And he`s been trying to tell
them the person did not get offended for the last three years because Raymond just got here in March.
CASAREZ: Well, I guess I`m confused because law enforcement has probable cause to charge sexual battery, which is a life felony. We are
hearing the 911 call of what the father descriptively is saying, how he found his son and the 18-year-old, Raymond Frolander. How can you say it
didn`t happen?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I`m not saying that didn`t happen. I was talking about for the last three years. They`re saying that it`s -- that
he`s been abused for the last three years. Raymond hasn`t been here for the last three years.
CASAREZ: All right, to the police chief from Daytona Beach, joining us. The alleged victim said that this is not the first time that it`s been
happening, that there has been a continuum to all of this. Do you believe your victim?
CHITWOOD: That`s correct. In the CPT interview, that`s what our victim expressed to us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: An 18-year-old Florida boy, his swollen face, all courtesy of an enraged dad.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just walked in and found a grown man molesting (DELETED), and I got him in a bloody puddle now for you right now, Officer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That father caught Frolander with his 11-year-old son.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He punched him in the face, he knocked him unconscious, and called the police and said, You want him, he`s here.
911 OPERATOR: Were there any weapons involved?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My fist and my foot.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: You are looking at pictures of 18-year-old Raymond Frolander. He has been charged in Florida with sexual battery of his next-
door neighbor, a little 11-year-old boy. Now, these things happen, and they are so critically, critically serious. But in this case, the father
of the 11-year-old boy walked in on it. And that is what the issue is tonight because he now is a major witness in this case, a capital felony.
Out to our medical examiner, Dr. Bill Manion, forensic pathologist. We heard the police chief say that a rape kit was not done because,
ultimately, there was no penetration because according to police and the father, he walked in right before the penetration began. But there was
touching. There was a lot of touching. Isn`t a rape kit important just for the forensics outside of the body also?
DR. BILL MANION, MEDICAL EXAMINER, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST (via telephone): Yes. And I probably would have preferred a rape kit be done
just to make sure there was no other specimen outside of the body. Also, this child has to have a thorough physical examination to see if there`s
been any chronic trauma. And also, he`ll need laboratory tests to make sure there`s no sexually transmitted diseases present.
CASAREZ: So many things to be concerned about, a psychological state. We`re going to go to our psychologist in a minute. But Susan Moss, who is
a victims` rights attorney, family law attorney -- the stepmother is saying that she doesn`t know of any other time that this happened, that this was
the first time. But yet the child is saying it happened beginning three years ago. Should we discredit a young child like this?
SUSAN MOSS, VICTIMS` RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Three years, three minutes, it doesn`t really matter! I`d get rid of a sex perp to my kid! I mean, what
happened and what this father saw was just undescribable! The fact that you can walk in and somebody you trusted is violating your 11-year-old
child is just more than anyone could handle! And absolutely reasonable for a father to take out any type of vengeance on somebody who is committing
such a violent and heinous act!
The fact that the child said that this has happened multiple times -- you know something? The timeline doesn`t really matter. What really
matters is, have there been multiple episodes? And that`s why I think that rape kit was more important to find out if there`s any type of bruising in
private areas, to see if you can connect the dots and that this happened more than once.
CASAREZ: To defense attorney Parag Shah joining us out of Atlanta. What about the fact that he was in a position of trust? He was in charge
of this little boy. And his state of mind was that the friends left, the father left to go get food, and finally, he and this 11-year-old boy were
alone together.
PARAG SHAH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, absolutely, the circumstances are suspicious, but we don`t know exactly what the father saw. And the other
part about this, as well, is that, you know, the game here is mitigation. I think this kid needs a psychological evaluation done and a look into the
credibility of the story of the victim in this case, given what we just learned from that other member of the family.
CASAREZ: You know, to the police chief who is joining us from Daytona Beach, Chief Michael Chitwood. In regard to the 18-year-old, is there at
all a juvenile record on him?
CHITWOOD: That I don`t know. But if I could just go back on something? There was a forensic rape kit done. It was not done in our
purview. In Florida, the child`s taken to a separate facility, where all the forensic examination was done. He does not have any issues -- to get
back to the perpetrator -- he does not have any issues here in the state of Florida that we came across.
CASAREZ: All right. Good to know. And we want you to listen to even more of this 911 call from a frantic father.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: OK. All right. OK. I got help on the way for you, OK? Is (DELETED injured at all, sir? Does have any injuries, anything
like...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He is (INAUDIBLE) way to know. (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: OK. So he never touched -- he never touched (DELETED).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, he touched him. He had his (EXPLETIVE DELETED) between his legs.
911 OPERATOR: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Pants were down, sir. Believe me, this is (DELETED) curled in a fetal position in a puddle of blood on my floor. And
I loved him up until 15 minutes ago.
911 OPERATOR: OK, is Raymond -- is Raymond breathing, anything like that, sir, or no?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, he`s breathing.
911 OPERATOR: OK. He`s not -- he`s not conscious, not able to talk right now, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you talk right now?
911 OPERATOR: Who are you talking to?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Raymond. He can`t talk.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Enraged dad.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I walked in, his (EXPLETIVE DELETED) was out.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He caught Raymond Frolander sexually abusing his 11-year-old son.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He had (DELETED) pants down. I didn`t proceed to ask any more questions, sir. He is knocked out on the floor for you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: You see all these injuries on the 18-year-old father -- the 18-year-old defendant? They were caused by the father of the alleged
victim, the 11-year-old, who said that this young man right here was about to sexually assault him, and the father beat him up.
I want to go out to Greg Cason, who is joining us out of Los Angeles, a psychologist. If this has been going on for three years -- I guess in
retrospect, it`s easy to see signs, but shouldn`t have someone have seen something, something not right?
GREG CASON, PSYCHOLOGIST: You know, that may not be the case. A lot of children will show acting out behavior. They`ll be extremely shy.
They`ll be extremely clingy or they`ll be very violent or they`ll refuse to go around certain people. But that could be due to many causes and it may
not be attributable to just sexual abuse. And plus, some children don`t show overt signs. It doesn`t mean it`s not happening.
CASAREZ: Well, what...
CASON: This was a family friend. Yes?
CASAREZ: It was a family friend, which actually could make it so much worse in regard to trusting and distance and just not making yourself close
to someone. What should the 11-year-old -- what type of counseling does he need to get now?
CASON: Well, you know, I think we first need to back up to say that most sexual abuse happens by either family members or friends of family
members. So this is completely typical. And they usually have to have a power difference, which we see here, access to the child and opportunity,
some sort of time period. All of that was present.
The counseling, though, I think one of the best things that happened here is that the father did take this boy off and attacked him and showed
his little boy that he is going to protect him. One of the worst things we see in sexual abuse cases is the parents don`t protect their children or
try to pooh-pooh it or push it under the rug.
The type of counseling, though, is going to have to happen. He`s going to have to go and get assessed, and they`re going to have to respond
to any kind of trauma signs that this child holds. But the entire family is going to need counseling right now, or they could make things much worse
on the child.
CASAREZ: Which brings me to Dawn Estrella, who is the stepmother of the 18-year-old that has been charged. Ms. Estrella, you realize that your
stepson admitted to police that he did it? He confessed. What kind of help do you think he should have, or do you think he should pay with prison
time?
ESTRELLA: I -- I think he definitely needs help because it happened to him at a young age, and unfortunately, nobody got him help that he
needed. And this happens. When people -- when people get molested, they usually molest someone else.
CASAREZ: So are you saying that he was a victim himself of molestation?
ESTRELLA: Yes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CASAREZ: The tragic death of 22-month-old Cooper Harris left alone to die in a hot car by his father. New allegations are surfacing in the case
against Justin Ross Harris that it has been exaggerated and misinterpreted. But tonight, investigators say they stand by the evidence we heard in
court.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the route that Harris would have driven as he left his office. Harris would have passed through seven traffic lights.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Squealing tires, the vehicle came to a stop. Seemed upset.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Harris pulled into the Acres Mills shopping center, he realized his son was in the backseat.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He entered into the rear door, removed Cooper from the car seat. Placed him on the pavement. Oh my God, what have I done, my
child is dead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Out to Ninette Sosa, reporter from News Radio 106.7. Ninette, the Atlanta Journal Constitution, which is a very respected
newspaper in this country, based there in Atlanta, they really did their own investigation, and this is amazing, if true. Some of the
inconsistencies they are bringing out in their investigation as compared with what the sergeant that took the stand in the probable cause hearing
said under oath.
SOSA: There are three points that the AJC looked at. They reviewed the surveillance video. The first one was that during the closing
arguments, the assistant district attorney had said that Mr. Harris took 30 seconds from the time he parked to get out of the car. The AJC looked at
that and said it was under 15 seconds before leaving the car. Second item was the detective who said that when Mr. Harris purchased the lightbulbs
and went from lunch to put them in his car, that he had looked in the car, whereas the surveillance video clearly shows not only did he ever look
inside the car, in fact his eyes are above the SUV`s roof at all times. And the third one was that they are saying it`s a little bit of
overzealousness, allegedly overstated the evidence that authorities claim to have said that Harris paused during his walk back to the office after he
parked his car.
Well, now, they are saying that surveillance video shows he didn`t even notice these couple of passerbyers that had -- they exchanged, when
they walked past each other, because Mr. Harris was on his phone. So instead of giving the indication that maybe Mr. Harris was thinking these
two people could see the baby in the car, but it doesn`t appear that way. He just apparently, in the surveillance video, seems oblivious to the
passerbyers.
CASAREZ: And Michael Christian, Nancy Grace producer, there`s more than that, because Michael Badgens (ph), who is the stepbrother of the
defendant, Justin Ross Harris, a law enforcement officer, gave an interview talking about that Justin Ross Harris really led the family in planning a
cruise for the summer for the whole family.
CHRISTIAN: That`s right, Jean. According (inaudible), this was something that first got talked about last Christmas. The Harris and the
Badgens were going to take a Carnival cruise line cruise. This included children. They chose this particular cruise ship because it had special
facilities including slides for children. Michael Badgens said this is not the action of someone who is searching how to live a child-free life. He
was so in love with his son Cooper that he was trying to include him in everything, including this family cruise.
CASAREZ: Michael, let me ask you about the life insurance. As we know, life insurance can be an aggravating factor that can make something
into a death penalty case, meaning pecuniary interest, you want money for it. What is the other side to the life insurance that we are now hearing?
CHRISTIAN: According to the search warrants, Jean, Ross Harris was telling people from the jail, telling family members how they could apply
for the life insurance. That sounds bad, there`s no question about that. But according to his half brother, Michael Badgens, what he was telling
family members was how to claim the life insurance money so it could be used to pay for Cooper Harris` funeral. As it turned out, Home Depot has a
charitable organization, their own in-house charitable wing, that paid for Cooper`s funeral so the insurance money wasn`t needed for that. But
according to his half-brother, that`s what Justin Ross Harris was trying to do, not trying to get the people to grab the money before it wasn`t
accessible.
CASAREZ: And of course, law enforcement is saying we stand by the testimony that was in the probable cause hearing. We had probable cause to
file charges. And this case is continuing to be investigated. But this is what the Atlanta Journal Constitution found as they spoke to family
members, which can be biased witnesses. But also, they said they looked at that Home Depot surveillance video that so much of that probably cause
hearing was based upon.
I want to go to Shireen Hormozdi, defense attorney joining us out of Atlanta, Georgia. What do you make of this? We know a probable cause
hearing is only one side of the story, it`s prosecutors presenting their case. But this shows a very different story, factually speaking.
HORMOZDI: That`s right. At the probable cause hearing, hearsay is admissible. But at trial, detectives cannot testify as to what they saw on
the surveillance video. Typically that wouldn`t come in, the video itself was. So the fact that the detective embellished or allegedly embellished
the video definitely helps the defense in this case.
CASAREZ: It`s factually inaccurate. If it`s to believe what the Atlanta Journal Constitution is saying, it is factually inaccurate what
Detective Stoddard (ph) said on the stand. On the other hand, to Bill Manion, medical examiner, forensic pathologist, even if it is true that he
opened up the car door, and his face, nose and mouth was above the roof of the car and just sort of put in the lightbulb he just bought during his
lunch hour. At that point, if that little baby Cooper died within 30 minutes, wouldn`t there be a stench of decomposition at that point?
MANION: Not so much decomposition, but I suspect the child wet itself, defecated, may have vomited, and just the heat with the vomit would
cause a strong smell. I don`t believe decomp would have started that soon.
CASAREZ: Susan Moss, victim`s right advocate, this is always concerning when you are the prosecutor or you are the plaintiff`s attorney
to have these inconsistencies here. Some prosecutors have actually gotten in trouble for that. What do you make of these factual alleged
inconsistencies?
MOSS: I got to tell you, under any theory, even if you believe this guy`s story, the level of gross, gross negligence in this case, if he truly
was able to forget that he had a child in two minutes of driving, that gross negligence leads one that he should be guilty of second degree murder
for child cruelty.
The fact that this kid was literally dying of the heat in a car while his dad went that way and then came back to the car, looked in the car and
then left again, that level of gross, gross negligence is enough I believe for a conviction.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CASAREZ: The mysterious disappearance of pregnant Marine wife Erin Corwin. This beautiful young mother to be just disappeared from one day to
the next right before her mother came to visit her. Is there a break in the case?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The search continues for the missing Marine wife who is also three months pregnant.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No sign of the pregnant mom. What has become of Erin?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The day Erin Corwin disappeared, and he`s hoping it`s not the last time someone sees her alive.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would hate to think that they went to this extent to hurt her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Corwin`s disappearance has been labeled as suspicious by the San Bernardino Sheriff`s Department.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It just doesn`t seem real.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Detectives searched two apartments on base and two vehicles looking for DNA and more evidence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Out to Dan O`Donnell, anchor and reporter with News Talk 1130 WISN. Dan, this is really getting more and more mysterious. We have
got an update in this case, what is it?
O`DONNELL: There have been a total of four warrants served now. Two are at an apartment complex where Erin Corwin lived with her husband. Both
her and her husband`s apartment and another one. Also, we have seen a search warrant issued for Erin`s Toyota Corolla, which was found in the
desert two miles away from the base just after she disappeared. And a fourth warrant served on a dark colored Jeep Cherokee with Alaska license
plates. They are still looking to see who the owner of that jeep is.
CASAREZ: Justin Freiman, Nancy Grace producer, we were able to receive all these search warrants and affidavits. Originally, they were
sealed, they were unsealed, we got them. I have never seen such specificity in a search warrant of what they want to be allowed to find.
Just give a summary for everybody.
FREIMAN: Jean, a few things they are looking for, blood droplets, smears, spray, puddles and stains, prints, hair and fiber, skin, muscle and
fat tissue. This is pretty specific stuff.
CASAREZ: It really is. And Justin, what surprises me, along with that, because they are also looking for containers, Justin. Containers in
any type of an attached garage or storage unit attached to the apartment they live in, but also within the vehicles. Talk to us, Justin, about
these two vehicles.
FREIMAN: One of the vehicles is hers, the Toyota Corolla that belongs to her, was found not too far from her home, but pretty far from the park
she was allegedly going to. And the other vehicle, all we know it is a jeep with Alaska plates. And the reports are that it`s tied to the second
apartment that the warrants were issued for.
CASAREZ: Also, we want to tell everybody, these search warrants were allowed to be executed at night and that was specifically asked for and a
judge granted that. To Dan O`Donnell, who is joining us from -- anchor/reporter, News Talk 1130 WISN, a witness has come forward. This has
come out saying that they may have been the last person to see this beautiful young Marine wife alive?
O`DONNELL: Yes, the witness` name is Michael Beasley. He says that he saw Erin meet someone, a man near the intersection where authorities
found her car, and Beasley says that Corwin got out of her car, got in the man`s red car, talked with him, and then they drove off together. However,
the Corwin family is sort of disputing some of the things he said, because they say he didn`t go to police right away. He claims he has in fact gone
to investigators with this information. He`s claiming right now he`s the last person to see her.
CASAREZ: All right. There are no suspects. There are no persons of interest in any of this. But it is very concerning that her car was found
close to the Marine base. That was part of the mystery. Now, we are hearing a witness say they saw her get out of her car, into another car
with a man the morning she said she was going to Joshua national park to look for picture opportunities for she and her mother. To Parag Shah,
defense attorney out of Atlanta, what do you make of this? This case is just getting stranger and stranger.
SHAH: Well, obviously they had to have probable cause for the judge to grant the search warrants. That means there`s something going on here,
and the owners of those homes need to consult with a lawyer because police know something, even though we don`t have all the facts.
CASAREZ: To Greg Cason, psychologist joining us, former star of Bravo`s L.A. Shrinks, what must her husband be going through right now?
Her husband is not allowed to speak out. The military is asking him, he`s an active U.S. Marine, and they`re asking him to not speak out. That`s why
we haven`t heard from him. But he has to deal with a lot of issues right now.
CASON: Can you imagine going that many weeks without your wife and having to keep quiet about it as people even turn their suspicions toward
you. All you are trying to do is get your wife back. This must be torture for him. He is having to turn to his friends and family. The one thing he
can do is to maintain focus on finding his wife and also having the support of family and friends around him, while keeping his schedule as close as
possible. It`s unfortunate we can`t hear from him. He does need to get his voice heard.
CASAREZ: Justin Freiman, are they considering this a criminal investigation at this point? I heard publicly, they said it`s not.
FREIMAN: They have said it`s not a criminal investigation at this point. Although, these searches are extremely thorough in case it becomes
one.
CASAREZ: The search warrant affidavit, signed off by a judge, says there`s probable cause for believing evidence tending to show a felony or
felonies has been committed. Dan O`Donnell, what are you hearing? This is a missing persons investigation. Let`s be honest here, this is a criminal
investigation.
O`DONNELL: Yes, it appears from what I read of the search warrants, this is very definitely a criminal investigation. However, police are not
saying there are any suspects in custody right now. As you said, given where her car was found, given what is being searched for, it`s clear there
is criminal investigation going on.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CASAREZ: Many of you have been asking about the victim in the tragic story of the mother of four hit by an eight-pound rock allegedly thrown
from an overpass. Tonight her husband gives us an update on his wife, Sharon Budd, while a third and now fourth teen is charged in this
horrifying case.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sharon Budd, fighting for life. Police say two boys pushed an 8-inch boulder from an overpass.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is bigger than my head. This fell from two stories high.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her head split open. Oh my God, it was terrible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: And I want to go out to the husband of Sharon, Randy Budd. You were just on a summer vacation on Interstate 80 going from Ohio to New
York City, and all of a sudden, at night, an eight-pound rock came through your windshield. Somebody threw it from an overpass. Four now have been
charged, and it hit your wife straight in the face. Now we heard from you last week that your wife was going to undergo extremely serious surgery at
the end of the week. What is her condition tonight and what happened during that surgery?
RANDY BUDD, HUSBAND: Yes. She went through a 13, over a 13-hour surgery to totally put her face back together. It was -- it`s devastating.
It`s in many pieces. They`re optimistic that they got done what they wanted to get done. But there`s going to be several surgeries after that.
In that surgery, they did open up the brain and discovered that the right, right side, right frontal side of her brain was damaged, and they made a
decision, came out and talked to me, and they had to remove the brain, the right frontal lobe brain that affects her social skills and basically who
Sharon is. If there`s any good news here, we believe she`s out of the life threatening stage. However, the big question is will Sharon be back with
us.
CASAREZ: You know, we have just not been able to forget you and your wife and what happened to you. On the other hand, now that is a criminal
case, four individuals have been charged with either throwing or participating in that rock coming through your windshield. Did that rock
end up in your car? Do they have that piece of evidence for the case?
BUDD: They do. Yes, the rock was right in the car. And they definitely have that as evidence.
CASAREZ: What is next for Sharon as she lay in the hospital in central Pennsylvania?
BUDD: We don`t know the future. The goal is they`re going to slowly take her off of the sedation and just see how she reacts, to see if she can
come back as Sharon. But even the neurosurgeons say they cannot predict how she`s going to come back, if she will be -- you know, they don`t know
and it`s very tough. It`s tough not knowing if we`re going to have my wife back and the kids having their mother back and the students having their
teacher back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A senseless violent act.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say two boys threw a rock from an overpass.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the rock was eight pounds, fell right down onto the windshield, hitting the face of a woman in the passenger seat.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Most gruesome thing that probably anybody could ever see.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: I want to go out to Dr. Bill Manion, medical examiner, forensic pathologist. What does it mean to have to remove the right
frontal lobe of the brain?
MANION: Well, that brain tissue has been smashed and damaged beyond repair. There is no way the other neurons are going to connect to it. So
when you take away the frontal lobe, you do take away centers for emotion, personality, spatial orientation, and hopefully the left frontal lobe will
be able to compensate if they`re able to salvage that.
CASAREZ: So can someone be rehabilitated to be the person they were when that is removed? Or --
MANION: I believe so. The brain has great resiliency and people have lost, you know, half of their cerebral cortex and still been able to
function. In this case, like I say it`s not really predictable what`s going to happen, but I am hopeful that with the left frontal lobe
remaining, that there can be rehabilitation and the person will come back, at least somewhat.
CASAREZ: Thank you to all of our guests tonight. We do remember American hero Army Sergeant Samson Mora, 28 years old, from Guam. He was
awarded the Bronze Star, a Purple Heart. A car show enthusiast. He also loved racing. He leaves behind his parents, Angelina and Abraham, two
brothers serving the military, and one sister and his fiancee, Rosana. Samson Mora, an American hero. Dr. Drew is coming up next. Good night,
everybody.
END
