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Nancy Grace

Was Missing Marine Wife Having an Affair?

Aired July 22, 2014 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JEAN CASAREZ, GUEST HOST: We begin tonight with breaking news in the mystery surrounding the disappearance of a young pregnant Marine wife, Erin

Corwin. In startling new developments, we uncover documents detailing an alleged affair with an ex-Marine who lived on the same base, and a

mysterious hunting trip the day Erin vanishes. Tonight, we learn investigators are fearing the worst.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The search continues for the missing Marine wife.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just released documents reveal that the missing pregnant wife of a Marine was having an affair with her neighbor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Officials are calling the disappearance suspicious.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Detectives say it is highly likely Erin could have been harmed by an unknown firearm and are searching for clues.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: And tonight, 19-year-old Renisha McBride wanders onto the porch of a neighborhood home after her car crashes late at night.

Suddenly, gunshots ring out. The teen girl is dead, shot through a locked screen door. Now the 55-year-old man who killed Renisha is claiming self-

defense. Prosecutors say this is murder.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was 4:42 in the morning. The blast hit McBride in the face and killed her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Theodore Wafer`s (ph) shotgun did not fire accidentally.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) 911 call (INAUDIBLE) just shot someone on his porch.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If someone knocks at your door, don`t pick up the shotgun. Just dial 911.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators say she was shot in the face, not at close range.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: And a beloved 11-year-old straight-A student, Martha Guzman (ph), found by her mother with a knife in her throat, extremely deep cuts

to both wrists, lying in a pool of blood. Authorities say this little girl was murdered in her own home by someone very close to her. But who would

want to kill a 11-year-old girl?

Good evening. I`m Jean Casarez, in for Nancy Grace. Thank you so much for joining us.

We begin tonight with late-breaking developments in the mystery surrounding the disappearance of young pregnant Marine wife Erin Corwin.

We uncover documents detailing an alleged affair and a mysterious hunting trip the day Erin vanishes.

Straight out to Justin Freiman, NANCY GRACE producer. Justin, these documents were just unsealed. What are we learning from them?

JUSTIN FREIMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Jean, these documents, these search warrants have a statement of probable cause. And

in that statement, it goes into detail about this missing pregnant Marine wife and that she was actually having an affair with her neighbor who also

lived on the Marine base.

CASAREZ: Now, where exactly did this alleged affair person live?

FREIMAN: This person lived next door to where she was living, on the actual base, and at first, when contacted by authorities, said that, oh,

they were just acquaintances, hadn`t seen her in a while. But then upon follow-up, they find out they were more than just friends, and he admits

that they had kissed, although not had sex with each other.

CASAREZ: And Justin, is he married?

FREIMAN: He is married, yes.

CASAREZ: All right. And she is three months pregnant? Talk about this for a second.

FREIMAN: About three months pregnant, from what we`ve been told.

CASAREZ: All right. And what do we know about his whereabouts on the day that she was last seen?

FREIMAN: Well, he says that he went out hunting and was not with her. But according to her friend, she was with him, that they had made plans to

go away together for the day to celebrate her pregnancy.

CASAREZ: To Dan O`Donnell, anchor-reporter, Newstalk radio 1130 WISN. One thing about Erin Corwin, she had a good friend in Tennessee, a good

girlfriend. And this person may become extremely important to this investigation at this point. What did her girlfriend tell investigators

which has now been unsealed?

DAN O`DONNELL, WISN: Well, the girlfriend was very explicit about this relationship, confirming that they did, in fact, have an affair, and

speculating that the child that Erin Corwin was carrying was, in fact, Christopher Lee`s and not her husband`s.

CASAREZ: And what did this girlfriend say to investigators about what Erin said where she was going that day, where she was really going that day

that she disappeared?

O`DONNELL: Well, she said that she was going to Joshua Tree National Park, in fact, to go hunting with Christopher Lee, that this was going to

be a special day together, as she called it.

CASAREZ: Now, from my recollection, Justin Freiman, what I read in the probable cause affidavit, in the search warrant, was that what she

actually said was that it was a surprise, that they were going to celebrate her pregnancy. Correct?

FREIMAN: That is correct, that it was going to be a surprise where they were going. There were other reports also saying that they might have

been going hunting together.

CASAREZ: That is correct. Dan O`Donnell, tell us more what is in this probable cause report.

O`DONNELL: Well, there is a lot of evidence that investigators have been able to find from a Jeep Cherokee which is believed to belong to

Christopher Lee, also her -- evidence was recovered from her car, a Toyota Corolla, which was found very near to the base on which both of them lived

in this apartment complex.

And there are statements from a friend of the wife of Christopher Lee, suggesting that this wife was actually talking about berating her husband

for not having a proper alibi, not being able to get his lies straight about what exactly happened on the day that Erin Corwin disappeared.

CASAREZ: Dan O`Donnell, we want to remind everybody there have been no arrests in this case. Officials are saying there are no suspects,

persons of interest. But Justin Freiman, saying that we have to rely (ph) what is now public in this probable cause affidavit, the search warrant.

And the scene really changes with what has now been unsealed to that horse farm, to the area where she -- we knew she had taken care of sick

horses. A lot of search warrants have been executed on that property and statements have been made, correct?

FREIMAN: That`s right. And that property -- it`s because, apparently, the neighbor was in the process of moving, and so was staying

at times at this horse ranch, as well as storing their property there. And so when investigators went over there, they actually witnessed them

bringing some of the property to this location and were granted a search warrant to check what was there.

CASAREZ: To Loni Coombs, former Los Angeles County prosecutor joining us from Los Angeles tonight -- there have been some statements allegedly

made that are in the probable cause affidavit here, this search warrant, stating that the wife of the next-door neighbor, who allegedly had the

affair, or currently having the affair with Erin Coombs (sic) -- the wife said that they`re never going to be able to prosecute this because they`re

never going to be able to find the body. They didn`t search in the right location.

How incriminating is something like that when it gets in the hands of prosecutors?

LONI COOMBS, FMR. LA COUNTY PROSECUTOR: Well, Jean, as you know, that could be extremely incriminating. It looks like it is implying that she

knows where the body is, that it`s hidden very well, and that she has some knowledge of what happened.

However, the person who gave this statement to the police, the friend, quote, unquote, "friend" of the wife, has backed off that and said, We were

just talking about cases in general, that in cases where there isn`t a body, that it`s harder to solve the crime.

So it`ll be interesting to see what that statement is when it actually gets in front of a jury and how it comes across to the jury, whether it`s

very strong, incriminating this person, or whether it`s become more vague and generalized.

CASAREZ: Well, Jeff Gold, then how do you rectify the fact that the probable cause statement says that the wife of the alleged boyfriend of

Erin Corwin said, You know, my husband never gets his facts straight, and his lies just don`t add up? And that is what investigators are looking at

right now.

JEFF GOLD, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, this is someone who`s not too happy with her husband, who`s alleged to have an affair with the neighbor.

But everybody`s a detective these days. Everybody`s a criminal defense attorney or a prosecutor. And everybody knows without a body, it`s hard to

prosecute it. So she may just be speculating. I don`t think the fact she doesn`t like him, think he`s a liar because he was having an affair, really

means anything more. She`s just pissed at him.

CASAREZ: Trinity Hundredmark, defense attorney joining us out of Atlanta, Georgia, investigators are going one step farther now. They are

finally saying that they are -- they believe there has been foul play. And also, in previous search warrants that we were able to read, we saw that

they were looking for containers, containers in the home, in the garage, in storage units. They were also looking for tissue in a car, in a vehicle.

What does that tell you?

TRINITY HUNDREDMARK, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It would tell me, Jean, that they`re looking for ways and individuals that may have hidden a body. And

I think there have been two different search warrants. There`s one for the husband and there`s been one to search this neighbor.

So my question is, is do they even know who they`re looking at? Again, at this point, nobody`s officially a suspect. Nobody`s officially

been, you know, released as a person of interest, or having been arrested with regard to this. But it looks like they`re looking for someone that

may have hidden a body or have an ability to have hidden a body, or you know, created some sort of, you know, diversion with regard to where this

individual is.

CASAREZ: And up until yesterday, they were saying that it was not a criminal investigation.

Justin Freiman, what else do you know from the probable cause information that has been unsealed today?

FREIMAN: Well, we know that they`ve searched, as they were saying, various vehicles on the property, and they took back things. But so far,

no dots have been connected linking anybody to the exact disappearance of Erin Corwin or what has actually happened to her.

CASAREZ: However, Dan O`Donnell, there is a witness that came forward to police that`s really corroborated today with what we are reading, who

says that he saw Erin drive her car into just sort of a desolate area, and she got out of her car. Tell everybody about that.

O`DONNELL: Yes. This witness says that she got out of her car and then talked with a man for a short amount of time, and then got in the

man`s car and the two of them drove off together. Now, if this witness, police believe, is telling the truth, that would make him the last person

to see Erin Corwin.

CASAREZ: And we do want to say this witness said it was a red car. It is a dark-colored car that is not (sic) red. However, law enforcement

is saying the tire tracks match the boyfriend`s car. Now, we`ve got sound from this witness who says that he saw Erin Corwin on that day that she

disappeared. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michael Beasley (ph) claims to be one of the last people to see her before her disappearance. He lives not too far from

where Corwin`s blue Toyota was found. Two days prior to that, he saw her leave her car and get into a red sedan with a man inside.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The car was in gear. You know, they were just sitting and chatting. It wasn`t even outside of range of her car. If she

wanted to get out of the car and said, I don`t want to be in this car, she (INAUDIBLE) could have.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: To medical examiner Dr. Tim Gallagher. Does there have to be a body here for there to be a prosecution?

DR. TIM GALLAGHER, MEDICAL EXAMINER (via telephone): I`m sorry. I didn`t get that question, Jean.

CASAREZ: Does there have to be a body? Because when you get to a courtroom finally, people want -- juries want to know a cause of death,

want to see a manner of death. And they want to see a body. Can there be a prosecution without that body?

GALLAGHER: There have been instances of cases where a suspect was convicted of homicide without a body. There is a precedent set for that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The search continues for the missing Marine wife who`s also three months pregnant.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What they`re looking for are signs of violence, signs of trauma.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just released documents reveal that the missing pregnant wife of a Marine was having an affair with her neighbor.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: And we`re learning tonight it was not only a neighbor, it allegedly was the man that lived next door, the man that was married next

door. And that was when Erin Corwin disappeared.

I do want to go out to Dr. Tim Gallagher again, medical examiner. One of the things that was recovered during the search warrants that have been

executed are quite a bit of ammunition, spent shells, different types of guns. Without a body, is that relevant at all to show cause of death?

GALLAGHER: Well, there have been precedents set in the past where a suspect was convicted of homicide without a body. It certainly is a

difficult case, and any evidence at all, shells or otherwise, would greatly forward that avenue.

CASAREZ: And once again, there are no suspects of interest. This is an investigation. No one has been charged.

However, Justin Freiman, Christopher Brandon Lee, the next-door neighbor, the alleged boyfriend -- he was actually arrested a couple of

weeks ago on what?

FREIMAN: That`s right. He was actually arrested shortly after one of these properties were searched. That is because of possession of a

destructive device. And according to reports, that device was basically a potato gun.

CASAREZ: A potato gun, that`s right. They call it a destructive device. They were able to arrest him and charge him with that. He was

released on bail.

Loni Coombs, former prosecutor, he made bail. Obviously, it potentially is not a serious offense to own a potato gun. But he was

active military when this all happened. He now has moved to Alaska. He`s gone out of the southern California area. How difficult is that, if

investigators want to talk with him further?

COOMBS: Well, he may be gone, Jean, but let`s be honest here, I`m sure that law enforcement is keeping an eye on him. And even though

they`re being very careful to say that there`s no specific person of interest, no specific suspect, we know from the search warrants that the

things -- the places that were searched belong to the victim, her husband and to this person. So there`s clearly a focus on him.

Apparently, this move to Alaska was in the works before all this happened, and so there was no reason for them to stop him. But they can

keep an eye on him. And the law enforcement in the area of Alaska can keep an eye on him. And remember, this could be -- there could be federal

charges here because it happened, you know, with military personnel, and depending on the location of it. So there could be federal authorities

that could also help keep track of him, or perhaps interview him, if they need to.

CASAREZ: Jeff Gold, that is a question that I was thinking about because all parties, excluding Erin Corwin, were active military, lived on

the U.S. Marine base. Her car was found on, we`ll say, state property in California. But Joshua National Park, where the search has been ongoing --

so investigators know something -- that is federal land. Where would a prosecution be, in a federal court, a state court or in a military

tribunal?

GOLD: Well first of all, if it happened on federal property, then it`d be a federal case. A military tribunal is something separate that can

happen separate.

I just want to mention something about this corpus delecti, the lack of a body. It is very difficult, unless somebody sees you push a body, you

know, over the cliff or something. You may not have the body, but somebody knows and identifies that a murder happens. That`s what corpus delecti

means. Can we show there was a murder? And without that, they have nothing. That`s why they`ve let him go because they just don`t have enough

now. They need a body.

CASAREZ: And they do not have a suspect or a person of interest. To Judy Ho, psychologist. I just keep thinking about her husband. And every

-- if you`re wondering why he has not spoken out, the military has asked him to not speak out. So now this man is finding out that his wife was

allegedly having an affair with the next-door neighbor.

How is that going to impact the loss of him already knowing his wife is gone and possibly believing his 3-month pregnant wife was pregnant by

him?

JUDY HO, PSYCHOLOGIST: That`s right. There`s a lot that this husband is having to deal with right now with all this new information, Jean. And

I think the biggest concern is that, of course, there`s going to be anger, there`s going to be frustration and confusion.

But the point is, whether or not the baby was -- now is not his but is actually this lover`s, it`s an innocent baby. And we need to get Erin

back, and we need to cooperate to make sure that she comes back safely. And you can deal with the fallout of your relationship later, but this baby

is innocent no matter who the father is. And they just need to find Erin as quickly as possible and cooperate and deal with the aftermath later.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I mean, it just doesn`t seem real.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Having an affair with her married neighbor, according to detectives and her close friend.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) you know, they were just sitting and chatting.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is unbelievable.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Detectives have searched homes and vehicles belonging to the neighbor and say it is highly likely that Erin could have

been harmed by an unknown firearm.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: We are getting some information right now into the news room, brand-new information. Police are saying for the first time, we are

looking for a crime scene. So once again, this information just coming in right now.

To Loni Coombs, former Los Angeles prosecutor right there in California, when you hear police say, We are looking for a crime scene, the

pressure is on. The pushing is on. What does that tell you?

COOMBS: Well, it tells me, Jean, that there`s some type of information that they`ve gotten that they feel that they can start to

pinpoint a location, either where the murder or killing occurred, or perhaps where the body is now, something that they`re going to be able to

gather information, evidence to show that a murder, if that`s what happened, actually occurred.

CASAREZ: It tells me that this is no longer a missing person`s case, if they are looking for a crime scene. Loni, I want to ask you one more

thing. You are licensed in California. She was pregnant. Do you have the fetal homicide law where someone can be charged with two murders?

COOMBS: Yes. You can. It depends if they -- you know, they`re going to have to be able to prove that she was actually pregnant, and then, you

know, you can charge both the -- for two -- it would be two murders because you have the baby and then the actual mother.

CASAREZ: So that tells me this case could be death penalty-eligible. To Trinity Hundredmark, defense attorney. What do you think is happening

right now?

HUNDREDMARK You know, Jean, it`s hard to say. I mean, the police statements that says that she -- it`s highly likely she`s been harmed by an

unknown firearm? I mean, what does that mean? To me, it just seems like they`re completely speculating. I mean, I don`t even know what to make of

that statement. They don`t have a body. They don`t have a weapon.

There is a potential maybe that they had a suspect, even though they said that they didn`t, and they let him go to Alaska. If they had enough,

they would have charged him with something stronger so that he wouldn`t have been allowed to have bond and so he wouldn`t have been allowed to

leave the state. But instead, this person that may be an actual suspect is gone and is in Alaska. And sure, they can keep tabs on him. But I don`t

know. It just seems like they don`t really have their ducks in a row. And I`m not really sure they know what they`re looking for.

CASAREZ: All right, Justin Freiman, I think that statement that they believe she may have been harmed by an unknown firearm is relevant. Isn`t

the fact that they have not found all of the guns but they`ve found some casings in a car?

FREIMAN: That`s right. They have found casings in a car that we believe belonged to Christopher Lee. But we have not -- the authorities

have not found the gun associated with those spent cartridges.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CASAREZ: Nineteen-year-old Renisha McBride`s car -- it crashes late at night. And authorities say she goes looking for help at the home of 55-

year-old Theodore Wafer. Now Renisha is dead from a gunshot wound to the face. Prosecutors are calling it murder. The defense says no, it was

self-defense.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just shot somebody on my front porch with a shotgun banging at my door.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What Wafer didn`t know was that McBride had crashed her car several blocks away.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He could have not answered the door. He could have called for help.

CROWD: Justice for Reneisha.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: And to Charlie Langton, reporter with WWJ News Radio 950. Charlie, how is the defense saying that the homeowner in all of this feared

for his life? Imminent fear for his life?

LANGTON: Well, what`s happening is that the defense is trying to claim that Mr. Wafer was in fear of his life, that Reneisha McBride was

banging on his door, that he lives in a neighborhood that is crime ridden, and that he just felt that he had to protect himself. And that`s why he

got his gun and shot her.

CASAREZ: Matt Zarrell, start from the very beginning. Because I think the beginning is, this young woman, 19 years old, got in a car

accident, right?

ZARRELL: She did. She actually got in a car accident just a couple of hours before the shooting. She actually crashed into a parked car on a

street about a half mile from the shooter`s house. The crash was actually bad enough that the car`s air bags deployed. Witnesses on the scene said

her head was bleeding, likely from hitting the windshield which was also damaged. They also say she appeared disoriented and dazed but was not

belligerent, and important here, Jean, did not show any signs of aggressive behavior after the crash.

CASAREZ: That`s extremely important right there. Justin, I believe there was a three-hour gap in time that no one knows where she was. But if

she seemed incoherent there could have been a small concussion. But finally, to Charlie Langton, she shows up at the doorstep of this

homeowner.

LANGTON: Yes. This was about a mile away, too. And the person that had the car called 911 at least two times trying to get some help for

Reneisha McBride. But she ends up on the porch of Theodore Wafer`s house, again about a mile away. That`s when this incident happened.

CASAREZ: Okay. So here`s my first question. And Matt Zarrell, why did he open the door?

ZARRELL: I think that`s what prosecutors are saying. Because the prosecution`s argument is, he had to open the door to shoot her. The door

is locked. There is no reason for him to open the door. The state argues if he felt in imminent danger, he should have done what most people do,

which is go upstairs, hide and call the cops.

CASAREZ: What he did, everyone. I`ll finish the story. There`s no question in this. It`s not a question of fact. He had a 12 gauge shotgun.

He shot it straight into the face is where the shotgun pellets dispersed, into the face, head and brain of this young 19-year-old, who died on the

spot. She was rushed to the hospital in critical condition, but she died. And immediately the homeowner said it was an accident. But then it became

self-defense. And with us tonight is a very special guest, Ron Scott. He is a spokesman for this young girl`s family joining us tonight from

Detroit, Michigan. Cofounder of Peace Zones for Life. Thank you for joining us. From your perspective, what happened here?

RON SCOTT, PEACE ZONES FOR LIFE: Basically you had a person that did not exercise prudence, caution and reasonability. Reasonability is the

question in terms of Reneisha McBride, who is 19, who could be any of our daughters, our sisters, our friends. 19 years old, just starting off in

life, was a young woman that was employed, and just basically had a terrible scenario happen where in effect she ended up on the front porch of

Mr. Wafer. And I frankly believe, and the family has stressed that Mr. Wafer obviously had something in his mind that led him to believe that he

needed to deploy his weapon.

CASAREZ: Matt Zarrell, I`ve got to stop you right there. Matt Zarrell, is there any forensic evidence to show that this young 19-year-old

girl was trying to break in that screen door?

ZARRELL: No. The only evidence that we know of is his statement to the 911 that he heard banging on his door.

CASAREZ: He heard banging on the door. To Jeff Gold, defense attorney, you know in Michigan it is self-defense. You do not have to

retreat. You are in your home. You have to have that imminent fear of death or serious bodily injury, but that`s judged on a reasonable person

stance right there. Why did he shoot her?

GOLD: Look, this is a girl who`s got a .22 alcohol BAC. She crashes in front of his house. She leaves before the ambulance comes or whatever

to check out, the police come. And then sometime later she`s banging at his door and it`s 4:00 in the morning. So maybe he`s a bit disoriented. I

think you can consider that in reasonableness that when you`re woken up at 4:30 in the morning and there`s somebody at your door. So who knows what

happened afterward? She had marijuana in her system as well. We don`t know what happened. A jury will have to decide. There are factors for

this defendant.

CASAREZ: Trace amounts of marijuana. Trinity Hundredmark, what Jeff is doing is blaming the victim in all of this. I`m trying to see where the

imminent fear of death or serious bodily injury comes from when there are not forensics that she was trying to break in the home, that the screen

door was locked, and he is the one that actually opened the front door at 4:00 in the morning.

HUNDREDMARK: She`s the one that was banging on his front door. Your home is your castle, Jean. Nobody expects to be any more safe anywhere in

their entire life than they do in their own home. This woman was banging on his door, she was drunk, she was on drugs. If she needed help, why

didn`t she stay at the scene of the accident and wait for the 911 people to come or wait for help there? There`s no reason for her to be there. If

anybody had a reason to be fearful or anybody, it`s this man who is randomly having his door banged on at 4:00 in the morning.

CASAREZ: To Lonnie Coombs, prosecutor, there`s just two people that know exactly what happened. The young 19-year-old who`s dead and this man.

And he may have felt because there were break-ins in the area, it was a high crime area, he actually 20 years ago had filed a police report that

someone tried to break into his home. So why couldn`t his state of mind be in fact that he thought it was happening again?

COOMBS: Well, Jean, that is. That`s what the defense is going to be. But remember, his state of mind is based on a what a reasonable person in

that situation knew and would believe. So all this information about the victim that happened prior, he didn`t know that. So that doesn`t go to a

reasonable position that he would be in fear. He didn`t know about the crash, he didn`t know about her blood-alcohol level. It`s based solely on

he heard some banging on his door. He could have at that moment just called the police. Instead he opened the door, and there was a young

woman, unarmed, on the outside of his door, on the outside of his locked screen door. And he shot her. And that was it. It was done. There was

no further information coming into him. That`s why the prosecution is saying this is a murder. He didn`t even have time to feel self-defense

because she had done nothing aggressive towards him at that point.

CASAREZ: Psychologist Judy Ho, describe for me the mental state where he believed that she was breaking in. What rationality based in fact can

you arrive at that decision?

HO: Well, I`d want to know a little bit more about this man`s history, particularly his mental health history, Jean. Because if he had

gone through something traumatic in his life, I know you mentioned 20 years ago he had reported a possible robbery, a possible break-in, but are there

other factors? Was he ever diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder? Did he have any type of paranoia or psychotic disorder? All of these will

be important factors, because then that could lead somebody to be extremely hypervigilant. And in his mind, what`s reasonable for him is then to shoot

her in the face. We don`t know any of that about him right now. I`d be interested to see if they give him a psych evaluation.

CASAREZ: And we do want to tell everybody that a jury has been selected in this case. The trial is -- evidence portion, is just about to

begin. To Dr. Tim Gallagher, forensic pathologist, one pivotal issue before that jury is going to be how far was that shot? Was it close range,

intermediate range or was it contact? And there is a discrepancy in the police report versus the autopsy report. That is pivotal to the defense,

correct? And how will they determine ultimately how close that shot was into this girl`s face?

GALLAGHER: Well, you have to remember that there was an intermediary target between the muzzle of the gun and the victim. So that was the door.

So a lot of the evidence that is used to determine the range of fire is not going to be on the body, it will be on the door, the screen door that was

shot through.

CASAREZ: And let me ask you this forensically. The defense is saying she was trying to break in, which caused the door to separate, the screen

door, versus the shotgun shell that went through the door, according to the prosecution. Will experts take the stand to determine which way that door

was injured, broken?

GALLAGHER: That can be done. You`ll have to look at the direction of the damage done to the door, whether it was an inward or outward type force

applied to it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CASAREZ: A mother walks in to find her 11-year-old little girl with a knife in her throat and lying in a pool of blood. Authorities say the

little girl was murdered in her own home by someone very close to her. But who would want to kill a 11-year-old girl?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her 11-year-old killed here, the 6th grader convinced her mother to break up with her live-in boyfriend. Police say

the 210-pound, 6`4`` man made his move.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say he stabbed Martha to death. Police do say she put up a fight, finding his skin under her nails.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: Look at that sweet little girl. Out to Frank Morano, radio talk show host from 970 AM. Frank, what do we know?

MORANO: The more we learn about this story, the more horrific it is. This 11-year-old girl, stabbed and slashed brutally in the throat and

wrists. The police believe that it was this fellow, Miguel Ruiz Lobo, the ex of little Martha`s mother. Little Martha showing how clever she was had

urged the mother to break up with the boyfriend. And in retribution, apparently, he snuck into the house with a hidden key when no one except

for this 11-year-old girl was home and allegedly killed her in a particularly gruesome manner.

CASAREZ: You know, Clark Goldband, this little girl, according to the reports that we are hearing, went to her mother and begged her mother to

break up with this boyfriend. Because she didn`t think that he was a good man. And Clark Goldband, this little girl may have paid for her life

because she told her mother to break up with him. What do we know, Clark?

GOLDBAND: Well, Jean, according to reports it was a struggle at the scene. Authorities saying that this little girl, a 6th grader, allegedly

fought for her life, scratching and clawing a man who was more than twice her size, Jean. This suspect standing at 6`4, about 240 pounds, according

to reports. This is just an 11-year-old girl. Now, authorities say, Jean, he allegedly sneaks in about 10:30 in the morning. How do they know that?

Law enforcement has obtained surveillance saying they see this gentleman in the span of 30 minutes enter and exit the home. But it doesn`t stop there.

Authorities say he gets in with a spare key that he apparently finds under a mat. And Jean, when the mom arrives a few hours later, she discovers her

11-year-old child stabbed to death, her wrists slit so severely authorities say her hands almost fall off. And a knife still stuck in the girl`s neck.

CASAREZ: You know, Clark, it is almost too much to comprehend. Dr. Tim Gallagher, forensic pathologist, medical examiner, they determined that

because the knife was found in the throat that her hands must have been almost severed before the knife then went to her throat. What was the

suffering like, to be alive, conscious, and have your hands almost be cut off?

GALLAGHER: It`s an unbelievable suffering. Children, reflex to pain is a lot more acute than that of an adult. So the suffering may have been

just -- I can`t even imagine, you know, the degree of suffering. But very, very high degree of suffering knowing that you`re going to die.

CASAREZ: Unbelievable. Frederica Burden is joining us tonight. She is the public information officer, a Miami police detective. Thank you so

much for joining us. I`m sure it is so hard for you to investigate this case as you are now. You have made an arrest. But one of my questions is,

originally it was said this little girl had hurt her wrists in the past, that she had had cuttings on her body just because of the emotional state

that she was in, and that the suspect now charged tried to say that she had committed suicide? Is that true or not?

FREDERICA BURDEN, PUBLIC INFORMATION OFFICER: It`s not true as for him saying that she tried to commit suicide. It`s something that we

investigated because of the nature of the injuries. We tried to determine whether it was an actual homicide, whether it was a suicide, and then we

did come to the conclusion that it was a homicide.

CASAREZ: Now, is it true that there was surveillance video of a home that was very close to the entrance door here that actually captured your

suspect walking in and then walking out about 30 minutes later?

BURDEN: Yes.

CASAREZ: Wow. That is amazing right there. What about forensics underneath her fingernails? What did the autopsy show? Because she fought

for her life.

BURDEN: Right. We did get information from the autopsy that she did have DNA underneath her fingernails.

CASAREZ: So that is very, very strong evidence right there. Lonnie Coombs, when you look at this and if you prosecute this, is this a death

penalty case to you?

COOMBS: You know, Jean, I think there`s a good argument for it. I mean, anytime someone attacks a child like this, an innocent child, and in

such a gruesome way, I mean to almost sever both of her hands and then to plunge the knife into her neck, it`s one of those most heinous types of

crimes. And it`s a very strong case against him. You`ve got a motive because she tried to break up the relationship. You have a videotape

showing him there at the scene of the time of the death. Then you have the little girl actually speaking from the grave with the skin of her killer

underneath her finger nails and it matches this man. So it`s a very strong case for the prosecution.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 11-year-old Martha Guzman found stabbed to death.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The wrists were slashed so far deep that it almost came off her arm.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: I want you to look at this little girl, Martha Guzman, 11 years old, a little girl, 11. And her wrists were slashed so deep that

they almost were severed completely. Why? Prosecutors say the motive was that the mother`s boyfriend was angry because little Martha Guzman didn`t

want her mother to have that boyfriend who she said was abusive. Out to Judy Ho, psychologist. What must this mother be going through? I always

try to find a lesson to be learned here, and I can`t find one here. Yes, the mother left the little girl alone, but if the mother had been there,

maybe we would have two murders right now.

HO: That`s right, Jean. It is really hard to comprehend what the mother must be doing through right now. I`m sure she is going through all

of the actions in her head, conversations with the ex boyfriend. And wondering if there was something she could have done to save this little

girl. And she did something that a lot of parents don`t take into account once they get into a relationship, when they are in a divorce, a

separation. Oftentimes the children don`t get considered in her choice of relationships. So she actually did consider her girl`s choice for her.

However, did she actually communicate to the ex boyfriend, actually my daughter is really the one who really finally convinced me? Was there

something she said that made him now aggress on the child? I`m sure unfortunately the mom is now running through all of those conversations

now.

CASAREZ: Dr. Tim Gallagher, quickly, when the little girl`s hands were almost severed and then the knife went to her throat, was she still

conscious as that knife went into her throat?

GALLAGHER: Absolutely. I believe she was. And if she wasn`t, he probably would have not attacked her in that way.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CASAREZ: We continue to get a lot of Twitter questions from you about the Cooper Harris case, the toddler who baked to death when he was left in

a hot car by his father. I would like to start with one from Quit Lin (ph), who asked, did he see a missed call from the day care? This is the

father. Clearly, his phone was on all day. Michael Christian, you know, I`ve got to say, a jury is not going to like that sexting all day. They

aren`t going to like this defendant because of that. But the question is, did the day care call his phone and do we know if he saw a call?

CHRISTIAN: We do not know that for a fact, Jean. We do know at the July 3rd, probable cause hearing, Detective Phil Stoddard of the Cobb

County Police Department said that at 1:30 that afternoon, Justin Ross Harris received quote, a group e-mail from the day care center, the Little

Apron Academy. This would have been at 1:30, shortly after he got back from his lunch outing with his friends and having put the light bulbs in

the car. We don`t know if he actually read that group e-mail, but that is apparently when it was sent out and was received by him.

CASAREZ: A question, would his wife have gotten an e-mail too?

CHRISTIAN: We don`t know that. That wasn`t mentioned at the hearing.

CASAREZ: All right. Vanessa wants to know, even if it is believable he didn`t see the baby, what about getting in the car after work and not

noticing the noxious smell? Dr. Tim Gallagher, what would that smell have been like when he gets in the car at the end of the work day if the baby

died that morning?

GALLAGHER: There would be three sources of it. There`s going to be typically when someone overheats, they vomit, then lose control of their

bowels, and then after they die, they have a decomposition smell.

CASAREZ: And would the heat only exasperate that smell?

GALLAGHER: It certainly would. It would intensify and actually concentrate it, and it would be very, very noticeable to anyone.

CASAREZ: Very quickly, our last question, Twitter user at profilerseye is asking about the life insurance. Whose idea was it,

Michael, this is very important. Didn`t Home Depot actually include some of the life insurance within his employment?

CHRISTIAN: That`s right. There was a total of $27,000, and according to Michael Badgens (ph), who is Justin Ross Harris`s half brother, $2,000

of it was provided by Home Depot when Cooper was born. Then about three months after his birth, the Harris`s decided to take out the other $25,000

as part of Justin Ross Harris`s benefits package.

CASAREZ: Thank you to all of our guests and thank you for those Twitter questions.

We do remember American hero, Army Sergeant First Class Matthew Hilton, 37 years old from Lavonia, Michigan. He was awarded the Bronze

Star, the Purple Heart. He loved serving his country and helping others. He leaves behind his parents, Leon and Mary Beth. His sister, Janine, his

son, Brent. His daughter, Haley. His wife, Mary. Matthew Hilton, an American hero.

Want to show a new photo of Nancy`s twins, John and Lucy. They`re having fun, building sand castles at the beach. For more pictures, go to

Nancygrace.com. Dr. Drew is coming up next. Good night, everybody.

END