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Nancy Grace
Body of Missing 6-Year-Old Found
Aired August 07, 2014 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, to Bremerton suburbs. As we go to air, we learn remains of a small child found in the search for
beautiful missing 6-year-old little girl, Jenise. We also learn the body found, the child`s body found just a very short distance away from Jenise`s
home.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Today, our unified investigative team have found what appears to be the remains of a child. The body has not yet been
identified. The family has been notified. After the scene is processed, the body will be turned over to the Kitsap County coroner`s office, who
will conduct an autopsy. They will determine the cause and manner of death. The body was found in the vicinity of Steel Creek (ph) mobile home
park.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: With me there on the scene, Carleen Johnson, KOMO. Carleen, when was the discovery of the child made?
CARLEEN JOHNSON, KOMO (via telephone): Well, late this morning, we understand. We don`t have the specific time, Nancy, but it was sometime
between the morning briefing we got, about 10:30, and an hour later, around 11:30 our local time, when they said, We`ve got new information. We`re
going to give you the latest at 12:15. At 12:15 local time today, we learned that a body of a child had been found in the mobile home park
community very near where Jenise went missing last weekend.
GRACE: This as the entire neighborhood had been basically on lockdown. Police had stopped every car coming in or going out. Anyone
that didn`t live there could not drive through the area. All the cars were being opened and searched inside and out, trunk included.
Over 100 units in that little community had been searched. One hundred homes had been searched. Sex offenders, registered sex offenders
had been searched, their homes searched, their apartments searched, all in the search for little Jenise. In the last hours, we learn a child`s body
found just a very short distance from Jenise`s own home.
Carleen, do we know exactly how far from her home the body was found?
JOHNSON: No, we don`t. All they`re saying is a child`s body found, medical examiner taking custody of the body to determine the cause and
manner of death. And they`re saying no arrests. The family has been notified. But at the same time, we can see from our news helicopter images
of the forensic team, dressed in white suits, inside the family home right now seeking more evidence.
GRACE: Carleen Johnson, KOMO -- with forensic suit -- and what I mean by that is the full white outfit, footies, scrubs on their feet, their
hands in plastic gloves -- this can only mean one thing. They are back in the home, in little 6-year-old Jenise`s home, looking for evidence.
But at this hour, the child`s body has been found a short distance away from Jenise`s own home. And as we go to air, we are learning police
are back in the home, not just police but crime scene technologists, crime scene techs in the home. One of the main things that`s happening at this
moment is the body of the little child is being processed.
Straight out to Dr. Tim Gallagher, medical examiner, forensic pathologist. Dr. Gallagher, what will they learn? I mean, a lot depends
on how the body was found. Was it in a bag? Was it buried? Was it in water? How long had it been there? That is going to be crucial
information they`re going to look at to determine who killed the child.
DR. TIM GALLAGHER, MEDICAL EXAMINER, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST (via telephone): That`s absolutely right, Nancy. Another thing to take into
consideration is, did the crime happen where the body was found? Or did the crime happen in the home, in another area and then the body was
transported there and dumped? All those things are going to lead -- or generate evidence to determine who did the crime.
GRACE: Everyone, for those of you just joining us, as we go to air, we are straight off a police presser. A child`s body has been found in the
search for 6-year-old little Jenise. Everything was done to find the child. And our hopes were raised. In the last hours before the body was
found there was actually a sighting or perceived sighting at a local Burger King of the little girl with another girl.
Joining me right now is Susan Murphy, who works at the Burger King where there was a possible sighting of little Jenise. Susan, thank you for
being with us. What happened?
SUSAN MURPHY, BURGER KING (via telephone): There was some state patrol who had showed up and wanted to look at our surveillance cameras.
We are undetermined (ph) where this allegation came that she was in our lobby Saturday evening. They didn`t specify what time, but they had said
that she was in our lobby and they wanted to look at some -- excuse me -- some surveillance. And then we had the FBI come in yesterday to make sure
that it was actually the state troopers that came in looking for that evidence.
GRACE: Do you know if they spotted the girl on the surveillance?
MURPHY: We did not. I spoke with Raven (ph), who was actually the crew member that night. And she, as well as me, both said that we all
would have noticed if two little girls had been in our lobby unattended by an adult.
GRACE: And the other thing is, the spotting was at Saturday night at 10:00 o`clock? Because her parents say they put her to bed, she went to
bed in the home Saturday night at 10:00.
MURPHY: And that`s where I`m confused, as well.
GRACE: Yes. So who made the sighting? Who made the potential sighting of her that night?
MURPHY: Raven said the detectives are the ones who told her about the sighting. She didn`t say if it was a customer, if it was, you know, an
employee, was it somebody else? We have no idea where this allegation came from.
GRACE: OK. Susan Murphy joining us from Bremerton there at the Burger King where there was a possible sighting. And the significance of
this is it changes the timeline. And if the sighting is true, that casts crucial doubt on the story that we have been told the child was put to bed
at 10:00 o`clock.
Out to Marc Klaas, president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation. Marc, weigh in. In the last hours, everyone, for those of you just joining
us, the body has been found in the search for 6-year-old Jenise. Marc?
MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Well, the sighting was not a hard lead. It was a very soft lead.
GRACE: Right.
KLAAS: It`ll be proven -- it`ll be proven to be not real. I`m sorry. I`m kind of speechless here.
GRACE: Well, you know, I agree with you, Marc Klaas. I don`t think that that was her at the Burger King on Saturday night. I`m having
questions about the timeline that we`ve been given by the family. I`ve got a lot of questions about it. But I don`t think it was her at Burger King.
I don`t want to dissuade people from making -- from calling police when they think they see a missing child because in just the last months,
we`ve had success at finding children by people that have been watching our show.
My point is, I don`t buy the Burger King tip. I think it was a mistake. And also, I`m not sure if the other people in the community, in
the little neighborhood, spotted her on Sunday afternoon, either.
KLAAS: No. No.
GRACE: I think -- I think that this child, this 6-year-old child, was dead at the time of that spotting, at what, between 12:00 and 4:00 o`clock
on Sunday afternoon? No, that never made sense to me. And also, we could not confirm no matter how hard we tried, Marc Klaas, that the outfit the
neighbors think they saw her in, even existed, a pink shirt, bluejeans and flip-flops. It was never confirmed those items existed or existed and were
missing from the home.
KLAAS: You know, Nancy, what we have to do now is we have to find out when the last time anybody saw this little girl outside of her parents
because this might extend back even farther than we thought.
GRACE: What do you mean by that?
KLAAS: Well, what I mean by that is, who else saw the little girl prior to 10:00 o`clock on Saturday evening? When was the last time anybody
else saw this little girl?
GRACE: Marc Klaas with us and taking your calls. Also with us, Carleen Johnson, KOMO, and Pat Lalama, investigative reporter.
Carleen, back to you on the scene. Carleen, one thing won`t lie, and that`s forensic evidence. Now, we know the child`s body has been found
close to home. There`s been a lot of talk about transients. When we pushed the police to tell us what they meant by that, they said homeless
people that are living in tents nearby, in a densely wooded area near this little neighborhood.
Now, what does it mean that the body has been found close to home? That still doesn`t really help me because I don`t know how close to home it
was. Is it in the back yard? That would be highly significant. Is it in those woods where the transients live, where everybody in the neighborhood
had access? I don`t know.
What can you tell us, Carleen? I know police have checked dumpsters, trash cans, the local dump to try to find her body. So what we`ve got to
look at, Carleen, is who would bury or hide the body in the woods versus putting it in a dump? Somebody that didn`t go very far away, we know that.
They did not go very far away. The body was found near the home.
Does that mean they didn`t have a car, they didn`t want to be seen putting a body in the car? For whatever reason, they dumped the body close
to the child`s home.
What more do we know, other than their crime scene teching (ph) the home right now?
JOHNSON: Well, they`ve been telling us each and every day at the briefings that they had removed more evidence from the family home, more
evidence taken to the state crime lab. But pressed on that -- What did you take? Why did you take it? What did you find? They continually said, you
know, We can`t tell you. That`s part of the investigation. Then this morning, they said, We`re going back into the development to get more
evidence based on where the investigation has led.
You know, you can surmise that perhaps something forensically turned up at the state crime lab based on what they`ve done at the home before and
they went back there this morning and then perhaps found the child`s body, maybe under the house. Who knows? We don`t even know if it was found, you
know, off the family home property. We`re going to learn much more later tonight. So many questions still (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: Everyone, the investigation going on into the wee hours of the morning for the past nights. Tonight will be no exception. For those of
you just joining us, the body of 6-year-old Jenise Wright has been positively identified.
The body has been found, we are being told, in a wooded area very close to her home. Is it the back yard? We have not been told that.
Also, isn`t it true, Carleen -- Carleen Johnson, KOMO -- your helicopters can look down. You`d know if it was the back yard, wouldn`t you?
JOHNSON: Oh, yes. Absolutely. We can see at this point from the helicopters. Again, they`re keeping us out of the park once again after we
gained access yesterday. They`re again closing off the park area, obviously, because they were looking for evidence there and found the body.
We can see the forensics investigators, the FBI crime scene investigators in the white suits looking through the house. I can see them
putting fingers on the outside of a window screen and calling (ph) for evidence there. They know what they`re looking for and (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: Outside on a window screen. OK, hold on. Hold on. Pat Lalama, investigative reporter -- everybody, with me, Carleen Johnson,
KOMO.
Now, Pat Lalama -- Pat Lalama, they have said all along there was no forced entry. So why are they fingerprinting or checking the screen right
now? Could the screen have been taken off and you couldn`t tell? It shows up as no forced entry? That doesn`t make sense to me.
PAT LALAMA, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: I think it`s such a fluid, active case now that they`ve found the body that everything is changing. They`ve
already said they`ve taken evidence, and they won`t say what it is. Interestingly, they claim the parents have taken lie detector tests, and
they won`t tell us what the results are.
But Nancy, what`s interesting to me, even though the police say, Don`t make a big deal out of this, is that she was last seen at 10:00 PM being
put to bed. A neighbor said -- a 14-year-old neighbor said she was hanging out with her earlier in the evening. That 14-year-old, if she did hang out
with her, knows a lot about the timeline. That`s one thing.
But if she went to bed at 10:00 PM and then they got up in the morning and said, Oh, well, she`s not here, and then they don`t call the police
until 10:00 PM that night, that`s so curious to me. But everyone is saying this is a tribal community. We all take care of each other.
GRACE: Whoa!
LALAMA: That`s not unusual.
GRACE: I didn`t say it was a tribal community!
LALAMA: Not you.
GRACE: Not everybody is saying it`s a tribal community because I mean...
LALAMA: Well, even the police there, Nancy -- the police said, Don`t think a lot about -- they take care of each other. It`s a tribal
community. She might go to breakfast at one house and lunch at another. I`m sorry. I find that quite curious.
GRACE: Well, even if it`s, as they are saying, a tribal community, where everybody is extremely friendly and watches out for each other, the
girl is dead, all right? So somebody in that tribal community knows what happened. That`s what I`m saying.
At this hour, everyone, the body of this 6-year-old girl has been found. We`re straight off of a police press conference. Right now, we
also know police are back at the home, and it`s crime scene techs.
Now, they`re still looking for evidence in the home. Does that say it`s Mommy and Daddy? Maybe. Does it say there was an intruder in the
home? Maybe. Maybe none of those theories are true. What we know is the body is found close at hand, close to the home.
Unleash the lawyers. Jeff Gold joining me out of New York, Shireen Hormozdi joining me out of Atlanta. Jeff Gold, take your defense lawyer
hat off just for a moment and let`s analyze what we`ve got, all right? We`ve got the child ostensibly taken out of the home. She could have been
taken from the neighborhood.
But what`s significant to me right now is that the body is so close to home. This is not somebody off the 303. This is not somebody that was
just driving along and snatched her and took her away. This is somebody that lives there, that this is their community, their neighborhood, their
little microcosm because they dumped the body right there. The body`s what? Was it seven, eight houses down from the Anthony (ph) home?
Everybody, you`re seeing the aerial footage that we have been seeing. Take a look at the guy in the crime scene tech outfit going in and out and
in and out, all over that porch. Take a look at what we are seeing right now. This has been going on for hours now, hours in the home, outside the
home, around the home. They`re not letting up.
OK, to Jeff Gold. What does it say to you this child`s body, this little girl`s body was hidden so close to home?
JEFF GOLD, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, there`s three things. That`s one of them. But first of all, the lie detector. I think the parents probably
passed it. Two, these transients live in the woods that are close by. They`re looking at the woods. That`s maybe where the body was found. And
now they`re looking at a screen, which would indicate perhaps an intruder.
I think they`re going -- the police are going towards the intruder theory, maybe these transients that we`ve heard about. That`s what it
means to me.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Today, our unified investigative team have found what appears to be the remains of a child. The body has not yet been
identified. The family has been notified. After the scene is processed, the body will be turned over to the Kitsap County coroner`s office, who
will conduct an autopsy. They will determine the cause and manner of death. The body was found in the vicinity of Steel Creek mobile home park.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Everyone, in the last hours, police have absolutely identified the body of a small child found adjacent to the neighborhood where Jenise
Wright lives. It is Jenise Wright, the 6-year-old girl who we all have been looking for. There you`re seeing the neighborhood.
We are confirming, at this hour, police are focusing on two crime scenes. They have just told us that. They are telling us they are
focusing on the home and in the wooded area directly adjacent to the neighborhood. That`s what they`re looking at.
I`m trying to figure out exactly where the body was found. Is it close to their back yard, which would point to someone in the family? Is
it near where these tents are, where the transients live in a wooded area?
We are taking your calls. Straight back to Carleen Johnson, KOMO. Carleen, they have kept the community road closed during all of this for
days now. What are you learning about the transients? When we pushed them on, What does that mean, they said homeless people.
JOHNSON: Well, yes. And there are some, as you mentioned, that live in tents in the area (INAUDIBLE) in small groups, you know, not unlike a
lot of rural areas, especially this time of year. They tend to live in these tent communities, homeless encampments, if you will. And they`ve
made contact with all of those people.
If, in fact, as you say, one of the areas they`re investigating now or focusing on now is that wooded area...
GRACE: Right.
JOHNSON: ... adjacent to the mobile home park community...
GRACE: Everyone...
JOHNSON: ... then perhaps that`s -- you know, that`s a direction to go.
GRACE: During the course of the investigation, the parents, under fire for their style of parenting, claiming the child could go at will,
wander the neighborhood for the entire day, from morning literally until 10:00 o`clock at night, the family not having any idea where she was, often
barefoot.
We also know that the father agreed to voluntarily take a polygraph. The results, we don`t know yet. Out to Shireen Hormozdi, defense attorney.
That speaks to his defense, that he voluntarily gave a polygraph. He didn`t have to do that.
SHIREEN HORMOZDI, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Exactly. Polygraphs aren`t admissible in court, and there`s a reason. Sometimes they`re not reliable.
So the fact that he took it does speak, though, to his defense.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: As we go to air, we confirm that the body found adjacent to this neighborhood is the body of 6-year-old little Jenise, Jenise
disappearing on a Saturday, we believe, although the timeline is under fire.
Straight out to Dr. Tim Gallagher, medical examiner, forensic pathologist. Dr. Gallagher, if the child was buried, would that affect
whether or not we find DNA on the body or in the body?
Am I hearing Gallagher`s satellite`s down? OK, let`s go to Carleen Johnson. Carleen, do we know if the body was buried?
JOHNSON: They did not tell us anything, Nancy. We will learn more probably early -- or probably this evening at some point, we will expect to
get more information.
GRACE: Right.
JOHNSON: (INAUDIBLE) a two-minute press conference earlier today when they said, We found a body, it`s being taken to the medical examiner.
GRACE: Right.
JOHNSON: No arrests. That`s all they told us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Today our unified investigative team have found what appears to be the remains of a child. The body has not yet been
identified. The family has been notified. After the scene is processed, the body will be turned over to the Kitsap County coroner`s office, who
will conduct an autopsy. They will determine the cause and manner of death. The body was found in the vicinity of Steel Creek mobile home park.
GRACE: Clark Goldband, what more do we know about the discovery of little Jenise`s body?
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, I think what you said earlier about the timeline -- maybe everyone is right. If you think
back about, say, a few days ago, what time did you go to the food store? You might say 3:00 o`clock. It could have been 2:00. It could have been
4:30.
So investigators are still trying to narrow down that timeline. Again, we have a timeline window of between 12:00 PM and 4:00 PM on Sunday,
which would be the next day after her parents say they didn`t see her.
GRACE: I don`t believe that. I think she was dead then. I think that was a mistake.
(CROSSTALK)
GOLDBAND: That`s what authorities appear to be trying to nail down, trying to work backwards and solve this, Nancy. They`ve been flooded with
tips, over 200 investigators on scene, over 300 tips have come in.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, I think what you said earlier about the timeline, maybe everyone is right. If you think
back about, see, a few days ago, what time did you go to the food store. You might say 3:00. It could have been 2:00. It could have been 4:30. So
investigators are still trying to narrow down that timeline. Again, we have a timeline window of between 12:00 p.m. and 4:00 p.m. on Sunday, which
would be the next day after her parents say, they didn`t see her.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: I don`t believe that. I think she was dead then. I think that was a mistake.
GOLDBAND: That`s what authorities appear to be trying to nail down, trying to work backwards and solve this, Nancy. They`ve been flooded with
tips, over 200 investigators on scene, over 300 tips have come in.
GRACE: The star of the hit reality show "Long Island Medium" is she a big fake? Phony? A fraud? Is it all just a million dollar scam? New
allegations come down in the last hours. The world renowned psychic, Long Island medium, in hot water again. Is she a fake?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Somebody lost a son in a tragedy.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: During an appearance on "The Ellen Show," the Long Island medium spoke to an audience.
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: I`m thanking you for the way you loved him and respected his choices and decisions. You didn`t always agree with him but
you always respected him.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Lost her son when he was just three years old.
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Is that correct?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK. Wait, wait, wait. He`s three? And respecting his decisions? I`m not quite sure I understand what`s happening here. To rob
shooter, naughty but nice Rob.com host to gossip table. Rob, what are the most recent allegations against the Long Island medium?
ROB SHUTER, HOST OF "THE GOSSIP TABLE": The allegations are similar to once we have heard before. Which is that once again this lady does not
know what she is talking about. She`s talking very very general terms about people that have passed away. She was on the Ellen Show as we just
saw. She asked anybody in the audience if they had lost a son. A lady here reluctantly seemed to raise her hand and then got some very generic
information about her son.
GRACE: Well, Rob Shuter, we actually have the reading as it goes down. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THERESA CAPUTO, LONG ISLAND MEDIUM: She said as we were going to break that a couple of people in here she`s feeling lost children.
Somebody lost a son in a tragedy. He tells me that he passed because he shows me doves in his hands. She`s right here. The woman in the blue
shirt? Did you lose your son, ma`am? So just know that he`s showing me the doves in his hands which is my symbol for he`s safe and at peace with
god. And he snapped his fingers for me which is my symbol for -- he left the physical world in an unexpected way. And wants you to know and
thanking you for the way that you loved him and respected his choices decisions. You didn`t always agree with him but you always respected him.
Is that correct? He wants to thank you for that. And more importantly that he`s at peace. He actually leaned over and kissed you and said,
thanks, mom.
ELLEN DEGENERES, HOST, "THE ELLEN DEGENERES SHOW": All right. Incredible, right? I mean, incredible.
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Did he not want to come? I felt like he wanted to come but he didn`t want to come?
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: A skeptic at first.
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Are you a skeptic?
(LAUGHTER)
The only thing that`s fake are my nails and my hair color.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Well, not according to critics. Everybody, that`s Theresa Caputo on "The Ellen DeGeneres Show." You know, I don`t want to rain on
the party. I don`t want to be the party pooper. But the evidence is mounting or at least the complaints are mounting that the Long Island
medium is a fraud! In taking advantage of people at their most vulnerable. Now, when they have lost someone they love dearly. And charging them money
or playing with their emotions in this way, very disturbing. If the allegations are true.
Joining me right now, special guest Pamela Weinstein. She is the woman pictured in Ellen`s audience who had the reading. And what you were
hearing it sounded like her son was a grown man. He was three. You know, Pamela, my children could not snap their fingers at age three. Maybe your
son was more adroit than mine. But I would like to hear your experience when you had the reading with the Long Island medium.
PAMELA WEINSTEIN, HAD READING BY THERESA CAPUTO (on the phone): Hi. Well, it was pretty interesting. I was definitely in shock, very nervous,
excited at the fact that maybe my son was going to be coming through and giving me a message. However, the information was definitely very
inaccurate. At the time thought was happening, I was very quiet and just shaking my head just nodding, you know, agreeing because I was sitting
there trying to process just everything she was saying to me. So I didn`t get a chance to really, you know, say anything back. I couldn`t even think
about saying anything back because I was trying take it all in.
GRACE: When you look back at what her reading was, what do you make of it? Why do you say it was not correct?
WEINSTEIN: Well, aside from the fact that, you know, my son was only three-and-a-half when he did pass, she mentioned that he -- about the
different choices and that I didn`t always agree with his choices. Well I mean, there`s not many choices a three-and-a-half -year-old does make.
That, you know, I wouldn`t or couldn`t agree with or not agree with. It was just very, very odd to me at that when she did say that. And so I was
kind of just taken aback at that moment when she did say that.
GRACE: Pamela, how was your son killed?
WEINSTEIN: He was murdered on the playground of his preschool back on May 3rd of 1999 when a guy drove through the playground intentionally to
kill as many innocent children as he possibly could.
GRACE: You know, Pamela, having been a crime victim myself, very often I wish, I hope I could hear from my fiance that was murdered shortly
before our wedding. Why do you believe people go to psychics to get in touch with their loved ones?
WEINSTEIN: Well, for me personally, I had always, you know, enjoyed watching those types of shows and the curiosity was there. For me, I
thought it was going to be some kind of, you know, the basic closure. You know, just hearing from somebody else that, you know, he is OK and that,
you know, he is around me. It is odd. I now have, you know, just different feelings on that. I think that if somebody could communicate
with a deceased person, I think that they would have known -- they would know that in my case, you know, if that message was for me, that he was
only three-and-a-half.
GRACE: Right.
WEINSTEIN: So that didn`t make sense. And if somebody was trying to say something, you know, that person -- the deceased person would have been
saying, no, that`s not my mom. Go to the other person, so.
GRACE: Well, the other thing is, Pamela Weinstein, if this is true that it`s all quackery and trickery and a fake and a fraud, how horrible to
take advantage of people that have already been hurt so much in life like yourself, losing your child on the playground! At play school.
But joining me right now in addition to Pamela is Marie Arout who had a home reading by Caputo, the Long Island medium. TLC provided her to us.
She firmly believes the reading happened and it was legit. Marie, thank you for being with us. What happened?
MARIE AROUT, HAD AT HOME READING WITH THERESA CAPUTO (on the phone): Oh, well, I had a reading with Theresa. I went to her home. And first I
want to say I`m a skeptic. I did not want to go. I don`t believe it those things. I`m a Christian, and I feel that`s where I should get my answers
from. But my family says I had nothing to lose. So I went very skeptical. And Theresa had things said to me that she had to be in the car with me and
my husband to even know what was going on. Because Theresa had mentioned jewelry. And I couldn`t connect. And she says, your daughter keeps coming
through with jewelry.
And then she turned around and said, your husband drove you here. And you were rubbing your two rings together, which is my mother-in-law`s and
my daughter`s. And you told your husband, if she mentions these rings, then I know she`s for real. And I was like, how did you know that? I
mean, she had to be a fly in the car to hear that conversation on the way down to her home. And that was -- that sent me over the top. I believed
it. She brought up my daughter. And she says that my daughter kept saying, I have this sister. I have this sister. She says, did you lose
another daughter? And I`m like, oh, man. You know, she hit the nail on the head. She was specific with their personalities. And, you know,
things that no one could have possibly known.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAPUTO: Now, who did your mom`s hair and make-up? She feels that she was laid to rest with dignity and grace. But she shows me you fixing her
hair and like fixing her makeup. She`s going no lipstick, please. No lipstick please.
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: As people were viewing her body, I guess someone went to give her a kiss and it smudged some of her lipstick. So I grabbed
my lip gloss and trying to reapply lipstick on her. And I just had to call the makeup guy to come redo it.
CAPUTO: This is the same thing that amazes me about spirit. People can say whatever they want about what I do but that`s (mute) crazy. I am
sorry. I am sorry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tonight the Long Island medium, Theresa Caputo, in hot water again after a reading on "The Ellen DeGeneres Show."
Out to Mark Edward mentalist, former undercover psychic. Mark, thanks for being with us. I mean, if this is intentional and she`s not the real
deal, this is clearly intentional infliction of emotional distress. Fraud on people. Causing them grief. Causing them pain like Pamela Weinstein
who lost her daughter, has lost her little three-year-old boy on the playground. He was murdered on the playground.
So Mark Edward, you`ve been studying her. What techniques does she use or did she use during her reading with Pamela?
MARK EDWARD, MENTALIST, FORMER UNDERCOVER PSYCHIC (on the phone): Well, I don`t think she was very good at all. She didn`t even do a very
good decent cold reading. You know, I mean, I don`t see any power whatsoever. I just see somebody who just, you know, gave a standard
generality and probably said does that mean anything to everybody. And there`s a large audience. And of course somebody`s lost someone, probably
many people are there because they lost a child.
And I mean, the evidence is clear that when she starts talking about this child -- about as if it were an older person. I mean, that should be
enough for anybody that just turn the television off. I mean, there`s nothing substantial there. If she had said the baby had a bottle or a
rubber duck in its hand, you know, and then I might have said, well, she`s done some preshow work which is what she always does anyway but she didn`t
even really do that. It`s very lazy. Very lazy work.
GRACE: With me out of L.A. Mark Edward, mentalist and Pamela Weinstein who had the reading on Ellen by Theresa Caputo. And also with us
Marie Arout who had a very satisfactory reading with the Long Island medium. Right now CNN heroes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: It`s tough. It`s tough growing up here. This is just so easy to take the wrong path. I was walking around with a lot on my
shoulders at a young age. I didn`t really care about life anymore. When I met Ms. Kelly everything changed.
PATRICIA KELLY, CNN HERO: Brett was hurting. He needed a place that he could just be himself. Our program provides a year round urban oasis
seven day a week, 12 months a year for children five to 19 years old. We use horse to create pride, esteem and healing.
The children take care of animals, take care of the farm. When they get to a certain riding level young men become mounted park rangers. When
they put their cowboy hats on and go out on patrol, the myth of the urban male is changed instantly. When kids see other kids ride, they want to
know how it`s done. That`s the hook.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: I can`t tell you where I would be without this program. It changed my life. It`s helped me set goals for myself. I`m a
part of something.
KELLY: When you teach a child how to ride a horse, they learn that they are the center of their environment. Once they make that connection,
they can change what happens in school, at home and in the community. It`s through their minds and through their hearts. They have ability, they just
have to unlock it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Theresa Caputo, Long Island medium in hot water again.
All right. To Marie Arout who had a very satisfactory fulfilling reading by the Long Island medium. You just heard what mentalist Mark
Edwards said, claiming it`s all quackery, fakery to make money. By the way, how much did you pay for the reading, Marie?
AROUT: It was a donation to the Warriors of Veterans.
GRACE: OK. So it was like an auction or something?
AROUT: Excuse me?
GRACE: So it was like an auction or silent auction, you won it, what?
AROUT: No. It was the donation to a hospital for the veterans.
GRACE: How much was the donation?
AROUT: Excuse me?
GRACE: You know what, forget it. Address what Mark Edward`s just said.
AROUT: She doesn`t take any money for herself.
GRACE: OK. Good to know. What do you make of the mentalist Mark Edward`s description of what he does, how she works the facts?
AROUT: I have to disagree because, as I said, I was a skeptic myself. I never watched her show before and I really was not familiar with her at
all. But when I went there, you know, I -- she was telling me things and hit the nail on the head.
GRACE: OK. Well Pamela Weinstein, let me ask you one question. When it was all said and done, how did the reading by the Long Island medium
leave you feeling?
WEINSTEIN: I was very disappointed. I was really hoping to have gotten a message and, you know, it was said. I wanted to hear from him.
GRACE: So badly. Miss Weinstein, I`ve got to tell you something, my sympathy goes out to you. I`ve often heard, I hope I never find out, the
worst thing that can happen is for a mother to have her child die before her.
Everyone, let`s stop and remember American hero Army Sergeant Nicholas Robertson, 27, old town, Maine. Bronze star, purple heart, Army
Commendation Medal. Left graduate studies at northwestern to enlist. Loved playing the drums. Parents David and Nancy, brothers Douglas and
Todd, Nicholas Robertson, American hero.
A special good night tonight from friends of the show Richard and his beautiful daughter Celine. And congratulation to our star intern Larson.
He just won the CNN intern video contest heading and off to college. He wants to be a film director and writer.
Everyone, thank you for being with us. Dr. Drew up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night,
friend.
END
