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Nancy Grace
Neighborhood Teen Held in 6-Year-Old`s Murder
Aired August 11, 2014 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Bremerton suburbs, Washington state. After an exhaustive search by land, by air, volunteers,
police, K9s, the body of little 6-year-old Jenise Wright found just 100 feet from her own home, her body embedded in thick, thick mud, brush,
thorns, blackberry bushes.
Bombshell tonight. As we go to air, police haul into court a 17-year- old wrestling star at nearby Olympic High, 17-year-old Gabriel Gaeta, whose family lives less than 10 doors away from little Jenise, the neighbor even
caught on camera attending little Jenise`s vigil on Saturday night. As we wait for formal charges to go down, tonight, we want justice!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A significant break in this homicide investigation...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) so young and so innocent.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her body just discovered in trees and brush.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Arrested in the death of 6-year-old Jenise Wright.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The suspect is a 17-year-old male.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And he`s a young gentleman I watched grow up in this neighborhood.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, from throwing punches to throwing helmets, NASCAR superstar Tony Stewart has a reputation for rage, allegations of plowing
down pit crew members, threats to run competitors off the track, claims he shoved drivers in anger, even throwing his helmet at a car. Well, it all
blew wide open Saturday night when conflict turned to tragedy. Stewart mows down fellow driver Kevin Ward, Jr., on the racetrack in front of
thousands, and caught on YouTube.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ward, Jr., exiting his car and walking back onto the track, which had slowed for a yellow fig, pointing fingers, and
presumably in frustration at Stewart. It`s then that Stewart`s car struck and killed Ward, Jr.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That video from YouTube.
And Ferguson, Missouri, rocked by the shooting death of an unarmed black teen, the teen shot dead by police as the teen walks to his
grandmother`s, witnesses insisting Brown had his hands up in the air when he is shot repeatedly by the officer. Listen, we are not taking sides, but
tonight, we want answers!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Witnesses say it was unprovoked. Police just shot the 18-year-old.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... causing the officer to confront the boy, first from his car, then got out of the car, firing a shot.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He wasn`t causing no harm to nobody.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A night of terror.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You killed my son. (INAUDIBLE) you know how hard it was for me?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. Live to Bremerton suburbs, Washington state. After an exhaustive search by land, by air, volunteers, police, K9s, the
body of little 6-year-old Jenise Wright found just 100 feet from her own home, embedded in thick, thick mud. Her body in the mud, surrounded by
brush, thorns, blackberry bushes.
As we go to air tonight, police haul into court a 17-year-old wrestling star at nearby Olympic High, 17-year-old Gabriel Gaeta, whose
family lives less than 10 doors away from little Jenise, Gaeta even caught on camera attending Jenise`s vigil this Friday night. As we are waiting
for formal charges to go down, tonight, we want justice.
Straight out to Alex Rozier with CNN affiliate KING. Alex, thank you for being with us. So this teen, 17 years old, apparently goes to Olympic
High nearby, is a wrestling star there. How did cops get onto him? How did they find out about him? Did it have anything to do with the voluntary
swabbing, the buccal swabs police took from volunteers there in the neighborhood?
ALEX ROZIER, WING (via telephone): Yes, Nancy, it was exactly that. And for the past several days, prior to the arrest, every single person
that entered that quiet mobile home park, they had to give -- or they were asked to give up a voluntary DNA swab. And Gabriel Gaeta did just that.
In talking to neighbors, their take is this. They said you don`t want to be the neighbor right now that does not give up a DNA swab. Gabe did give
his swab up, and then a few days later, he was arrested.
GRACE: Wow.
ROZIER: You know, I talked to the lead detective on this case, and he said that his defense will not be that we have the wrong guy. He said they
are 100 percent certain, Nancy, that Gabe Gaeta is a guilty man.
GRACE: This has got to be based on DNA. I know that there are claims -- right now, there are police charges. He`s not been indicted yet,
everyone. Today was just a first appearance of the 17-year-old neighbor in court -- allegations, claims there will be a charge of aggravated murder,
which carries life without parole, and of kidnapping and of rape.
I was stunned when I first saw the headlines. A 17-year-old teen neighbor of Jenise`s family is charged in the little girl`s death. I also
know that at this hour, police have taken three vehicles from the Gaeta home. Did the incident take place in the vehicle?
We are taking your calls. Sheila in Washington. Hi, Sheila. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I live in Washington state, and I`ve been watching this since day one and praying for that little girl. I
really believe that those parents should be reprimanded to the fullest extent also. They knew that child was -- they didn`t even know for sure if
that child was seen that morning. But then they didn`t report it for 10- and-a-half hours?
GRACE: With me is Sheila from Washington. Sheila, I have two 6-year- olds, OK, my twins, boy/girl. It would be a cold day in H-E-double-L before I`d let them wander the neighborhood without me. I don`t even let
them get in the yard without me watching them or sitting there with them. You know, sometimes I`m afraid to even be 60 feet away from them at
playgrounds that are not enclosed. No way! Forget it!
I hear what you`re saying, Sheila in Washington. Another issue is this. There are two more children in the home that have been taken away
from the family.
Everybody, tonight, many people were suspicious of the father in this case. He is not implicated in any way. He had a previous arrest record.
Police kept telling us, every time we would talk to them, We know about his record, we`re focusing elsewhere, we`re focusing elsewhere. And I couldn`t
decide if that was a mistake, or if they knew something they weren`t telling me. And they absolutely did know a lot they weren`t telling us, as
it should be.
Tonight, the parents have been cleared. But Sheila in Washington, bringing up the point, why was this girl wandering the neighborhood from
morning until night, literally?
Straight back out to Alex Rozier with KING. So Alex, what`s so stunning to me -- and I can just see the 17-year-old wrestling star. The
police come to the door, Knock, knock, knock, knock, hey, we`re taking voluntary DNA. His parents are there. What can he say? No, I`m not going
to give you my DNA?
So he gives the DNA, Alex, thinking, OK, I don`t really know how DNA works, but maybe they won`t find her body. OK? Tell me what happened,
Alex, after they take the guy`s DNA, less than 10 doors down from where Jenise lives. And he even had the gall -- the gall! -- to show up at the
vigil for this little girl. There he is. There is the wrestling star, the teen. There he is at the vigil for the little girl, the Friday night
vigil. I`m stunned, Alex Rozier!
ROZIER: It is. Yes, it`s really a stunning development there. And you see him with a candle in his hands, standing at that vigil for the girl
that he`s suspected of killing. Now, this all happening on Friday. Saturday, he was arrested. And in the time when that vigil is going on,
the investigation was in full force. They got that DNA back middle afternoon, about 2:50 on Saturday. And just before they -- they got the
DNA and then they went and made the arrest right away. They said they`re 100 percent certain. It`s an astonishing development, though, that he had
the guts to go to this girl`s vigil, for the girl that he killed, as police tell us.
GRACE: Oh! Oh! Oh! Matt Zarrell, also on the story. Matt, what more do we know about the way that this child`s body was found?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Yes, so the child`s body was actually found, Nancy, only 100 feet, 100 feet from the
neighborhood where she went missing. The cops say it was amid (ph) a mud thick brush and blackberry bushes. They also said that the suspect was
likely muddy and got mud on their clothing. And they actually asked the public to report any suspicious behavior, such as someone who had discarded
an article of soiled clothing.
GRACE: You know, unleash the lawyers. Joining me, defense attorney and author of "The Code," Atlanta lawyer Parag Shah. Joining me from LA,
defense attorney Areva Martin.
All right, let`s start with you, Areva. When I saw the headline that police were saying the perpetrator had to be covered in mud -- when I heard
that, I was just thinking of Jenise. I was thinking of this 6-year-old little girl, unarmed, probably barefoot, playing in the neighborhood, and
why police were so convinced that the killer would be covered head to toe with mud. I mean, think about this child`s lifeless body, probably raped,
probably strangled, then being submerged in mud, thorns and blackberry bushes.
This guy`s lucky, if he`s guilty, that our Supreme Court said you can`t have the death penalty for 18 and under.
AREVA MARTIN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, what`s amazing about this case, Nancy, is the use of DNA evidence. The police were brilliant to go
throughout that community and ask for volunteers to come forward and to give their DNA. And they boxed this young man into a corner. He had no
choice but...
GRACE: What do you mean they boxed him in they corner?
MARTIN: ... to do what the rest of the neighborhood community was doing.
GRACE: Nobody made him give that DNA...
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Well, if the police knock on your door and say, We`re taking DNA swabs of all the people in this community...
GRACE: Well, whoa, whoa, whoa! Wait a minute!
MARTIN: ... his refusal to do so...
GRACE: If somebody knocks on my door and says, Let me stick this swab in your mouth, I go, Oh, no, no. No. OK?
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... go so far with me.
MARTIN: He had an absolute right not to give the swab, Nancy. But look at the implication. Look at how that would have looked. In this
community, where everyone is mobilized looking for this little girl, where all of the volunteers are stepping forward, giving their DNA, trying to
help find this little girl. Now, of course, he had a legal right to not give his DNA. But he`s -- his parents are standing there as he`s being
asked by the police. So he would have had a lot of questions to answer to his family.
GRACE: Let me see Areva Martin! OK, now, here`s the twist on that. If police told me, This is to help find a missing 6-year-old little girl, I
would say, Absolutely, take my DNA. Take everybody in the house`s DNA. You know, fine, do it.
So Parag Shag, I guess what Areva Martin is trying to argue is that he was peer-pressured or shamed into giving his DNA? Because that ain`t going
to work in court, Parag Shah. That`s what you two are cooking up.
PARAG SHAH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, the consent wasn`t voluntary is the main issue.
GRACE: Well, no, no, no, no! That`s what consent is.
SHAH: Well, there`s a lot of factors to consider, and one of them is definitely his age.
GRACE: He`s 17.
SHAH: You might be OK -- you might be OK with saying, you know, I`m not going to let you take my DNA, but a 17-year-old kid with his parents
there, the police right in front of him? It`s a different situation.
GRACE: OK, hold on, hold on, hold on! Back to Parag Shah and Areva Martin. If you were told, Parag Shah, that this was to find a 6-year-old
missing girl, I would give my DNA for that in a heartbeat. Now, are you saying that they`re going to throw the DNA out because his consent wasn`t
real consent? Is that what you`re saying/
SHAH: I`m saying it`s going to be challenged.
GRACE: Yes. OK. We`ll see how far that goes.
In the last hours, police haul a 17-year-old wrestling star into court...
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Murder in the second degree.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Authorities investigating the death of 6-year-old Jenise Wright.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Manslaughter in the first degree.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Announce that they`ve made an arrest in the case.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And rape of a child in the first degree.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: First degree.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: First degree.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Everyone, in the last hours, police haul a 17-year-old wrestling star whose family lived, along with him, less than 10 houses from
little 6-year-old Jenise -- in the last hour, as we learn that the district attorney`s office is considering aggravated murder charges, in addition to
rape charges -- that would carry life without parole. There`s no possibility for him to get the death penalty in that jurisdiction. There,
there is a choice of hanging or lethal injection. That`s a decision he`ll never have to make.
To Dr. Michelle Dupre, medical examiner and forensic pathologist joining us out of Columbia tonight. Dr. Dupre, so great to have you with
us. Doctor, the condition of the girl`s body is something I just can`t shake, the fact that not only was she murdered and raped, that her body was
then embedded in thick, thick mud, thorns, blackberry bushes, scrub bushes, where, in fact, police had gone by it several times and didn`t see it or
notice it due to where it had been hidden.
What possible DNA could they get from the girl`s body?
DR. MICHELLE DUPRE, MEDICAL EXAMINER/FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST (via telephone): Nancy, actually, the mud may have helped to preserve parts of
the body. And DNA can be gotten from a lot of different things, under the fingernails, other places on the body. It may be very likely they got a
good bit of DNA.
GRACE: Everyone, you are seeing shots right now of the teen neighbor, a suspect in the 6-year-old girl, little Jenise`s death.
We are taking your calls. Out to Brett Larson, investigative reporter. Brett, what more do we know?
BRETT LARSON, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Well, Nancy, I mean, we also know, as you mentioned there, that they took those three cars from the home
of the suspect. They`re trying to decide if any of those three vehicles had anything to do with this horrendous crime.
We also know that the FBI dogs were partially helpful in discovering this little girl`s body. And as you said, at this hour, this teenage
suspect, this kid, Gabe -- we can refer to him, I think, as a kid -- is in police custody on several charges. And we will see what happens from here.
Also, we should mention, the children, the other children in the home of the little girl here who was taken, are still in child protective
custody.
GRACE: Straight back out to Alex Rozier with KING, joining us from the scene. Alex, again, thank you for being with us. What do we know
about Gabriel Gaeta?
ROZIER: You know, he is a wrestling star. And this is -- you have to understand this is a small town field (ph). This is a quiet mobile home
park where everyone knows everyone else. And all of a sudden, in a week`s time, not only did they lose a valuable (ph) 6-year-old member of this
neighborhood, but then they find out that this 17-year-old, who was shy and quiet and seemingly nice to people, is arrested for her murder and rape.
It`s a devastating story.
But you know, as the days progress here, we`re going to continue to learn more, but a wrestling standout here arrested for this 6-year-old`s
murder.
GRACE: Just 100 feet away from her home. We also learned that three vehicles have been taken away from the Gaeta home.
Straight back out to Alex Rozier, KING. Now, think about it. We believe that the teen neighbor lives with his parents. They are about 10
houses down from Jenise`s home. If his parents were home, are police suspecting that the rape and murder occurred in one of the cars?
ROZIER: At this point, authorities have not said anything on this. But if you were standing at his front door, Nancy, you go 150-some feet out
there, and you`re going to be where the FBI found that body. Now, you go back to the search for Jenise, and the dogs, the K9s kept going back to
this area. They kept (INAUDIBLE) giving them an indication this is -- there`s something here. There`s something going on here.
Well, sure enough, the FBI tracks on foot, and an FBI agent found Jenise in the mud, a complete mess, and obviously (INAUDIBLE) 150 feet from
his front door. And who else played a role, where did all of this take place -- that is -- those are some details that`ll probably come out here
in the next few days.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, LA lawyer Areva Martin, Atlanta lawyer Parag Shah. Shah, how -- if he is, in fact, guilty, and DNA is indicating
that he is, how could he sleep at night with this child`s body embedded in the mud, in the thorns, just 150 feet away -- 150 feet! That`s nothing.
SHAH: I think this child already has some psychological issues and...
GRACE: Are you talking about the 17-year-old wrestling star?
SHAH: Yes.
GRACE: OK.
SHAH: He`s a child, 17 years old is a kid. This kid has some psychological issues, if these allegations are true. And there`s a lot
more that needs to be done in terms of his mental state.
GRACE: Areva?
MARTIN: I totally agree. Nancy, we`re going to see a full-blown psychological evaluation. Wouldn`t be surprised if we see some kind of
defense based on insanity or some kind of diminished capacity...
GRACE: You know, the two of you...
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: ... from a 17-year-old teen.
GRACE: ... always say diminished capacity. Diminished capacity is a nice way of saying, I`m going to claim I`m insane. You know why? Because
there`s DNA. If there wasn`t DNA in this case -- can I see the two of them, please? If there wasn`t DNA in this case, the two of you would be
screaming, He didn`t do it, you got no proof he did it! OK, we`ve got DNA that`s probably going to show a rape and possibly a murder if his skin is
under her nails, OK? Number one. So we have DNA. Her body is 150 feet away.
So the two of you, your back is against the wall, so you`re going to claim diminished capacity. That`s where you`re coming from, right?
MARTIN: The heinous nature of this crime, Nancy, suggests that this young man was not in his right frame of mind and that there was something
else at play that caused this heinous crime.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: For those of you that have joined us in the search for little 6-year-old Jenise Wright, the stunning blow that her body was found just
100 feet away from the neighborhood was then somehow turned into even more of a nightmare when we learn that the man arrested in her rape and death is
a 17-year-old neighbor, a 17-year-old wrestling star at Olympic High. There he is, at the vigil on Friday night, the vigil for the missing girl,
for little Jenise.
Straight to Matt Zarrell. Matt, formal charges expected to go down in 72 hours. And in the last hours, Gaeta brought into court. There`s no
chance he`s going to be tried as a teen, as a child, right?
ZARRELL: No, Nancy, there`s absolutely no chance. In fact, the statute in Washington state is very specific that if someone is 16 or 17
and they`re alleged to commit a serious violent offense, juvenile court does not apply. It automatically goes to adult court. There is no
decision. There`s no debate. He is going to face a possible life sentence.
GRACE: You know, and that is compared, Matt Zarrell, as in many jurisdictions where there is something called a "bindover," which means
that if you`re charged with one of, typically, seven deadlies -- murder, rape, child molestation, aggravated assault, armed robbery, arson, it goes
on -- if you`re charged with one of those, there has to be a hearing as to whether your case will be bound over or taken out of juvenile court, where
you basically have to write an essay saying, I won`t do it again. You get bound over or sent to adult court, where you go on trial with a jury for
felony.
But there`s also the very strong possibility that there will be a charge here of aggravated murder, Matt Zarrell. What is that?
ZARRELL: Exactly. It`s the aggravation would be that the aggravating factors in the statute, specifically that the child, murder of a child.
You also have a felony in commission of this crime, which is the rape, which would also make it felony murder, which would also give him a life
sentence.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The 17-year-old suspect will be booked for murder in the second degree, manslaughter in the first degree, and rape of a child
in the first degree. This investigation is far from over. We have a lot still to do. Detectives from the sheriff`s office and acts with the FBI
will continue with this investigation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: From throwing punches to throwing helmets, NASCAR superstar Tony Stewart has a reputation for rage. And it blew wide open Saturday
night when conflict turns to tragedy. Stewart mows down fellow driver Kevin Ward Jr. on the racetrack, in front of thousands, caught on Youtube.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Watch what happens as Stewart`s car closes in on Ward, cutting him off. Ward`s car is forced up against the wall where he
spins out. As the race continues, amateur video shows Ward out of his car, pointing his finger, seemingly in the direction of Stewart`s car. Ward`s
car swerves around board, Stewart`s car hits him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That video from youtube. We are intentionally not showing you the moment of impact when Kevin Ward Jr. is killed. Out to Todd Halladay,
news director at H.A.M. 1180 joining us from the location. Todd, thank you for being with us. Now, if I didn`t know about Stewart`s history of rage,
I wouldn`t be so concerned about this. You`ve got two sides of this, Todd. You`ve got somebody walking onto a racetrack, for Pete`s sake, what do you
think is going to happen. Then you have the fact that the two have an altercation. They have a conflict. And then of all the cars on that
track, Tony Stewart is the one that mows down Kevin Ward. What`s your take?
TODD HALLADAY: Well, mowed down, that`s an interesting turn of the phrase. Some folks who are regular race watchers say what they saw was
bumping that was in the context of ordinary racing. That`s -- I`ll let the fans decide that and we`ll let the experts decide where in the extent of
the initial crash, perhaps the bounds of racing conduct were exceeded. That`s a whole other issue from the criminal investigation.
GRACE: Take a listen to what actual eyewitnesses had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t think he saw him until the last second. There`s so many things going on inside those race cars, that a lot of
people don`t realize. Motorsports are dangerous. But when you get out of that car, you know, you`re putting yourself at a big risk.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Quite frightening. And disturbing. I could see someone get out of the car and start acting like he was mad at Tony. Went
up to the car, and started yelling. All of a sudden, with the fencing I couldn`t see, he disappeared, and then emergency vehicles were looking like
there was an urgent situation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He got out of his car, he ran out in the middle of the track. He pointed at Tony. Tony took one more lap around, and he
stood right there in front of the car, and Tony never stopped.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Back to Todd Halladay, news director at WHAM. Todd, thank you for being with us. Todd, exactly what happened? We`re looking at it right
now. Could you explain to us exactly what happened?
HALLADAY: A number of eyewitness accounts out there, but certainly the most compelling information we get comes from the video you`re seeing.
It was widely circulated on Youtube in the first hours. It shows the Sprint car race Saturday night on the oval dirt track here in New York.
Tony Stewart`s number 14 car, the number 13 driven by Kevin Ward Jr., apparently bumping on the curve, and Ward`s car spins out against the
track`s back wall.
GRACE: Everyone, you are seeing the video as it happened. Also with us tonight, Rachel Nichols, host of CNN`s "Unguarded with Rachel Nichols."
Rachel, what`s your take on it?
RACHEL NICHOLS, CNN: Well, the sheriff is still investigating, and they have access to information we don`t. There`s really three things that
could have happened. Either he just didn`t see him at all. That is the one thing they are looking into. They`ve been examining the lighting at
the track. This is not a fancy track, where they race NASCAR regularly. This is a dirt track. It is not even a particularly well lit dirt track.
And they`re looking at the fact that Kevin Ward was wearing a black suit. The one possibility is Tony Stewart didn`t see him in time. The other
possibility is there are some witnesses, who are far away, mind you, who say they heard him hit the throttle. If he really did hit the throttle,
which frankly is a little bit hard to tell from that distance, was he hitting that throttle or was he trying to get around Kevin Ward Jr. and
avoid him? And he ended up hitting him? Or was he actually trying to put a little bit of a scare into Kevin Ward Jr. in some way? Because they were
in the middle of this conflict. It`s possible we will never know. Obviously Tony Stewart knows. He`s been questioned twice by police. They
characterize him as cooperative and shaken up. But obviously, only he can tell us what really happened. We might never hear that from him, Nancy.
GRACE: With me, Rachel Nichols and Todd Halladay. Now let`s go to a pro. Joining me is Geoff Bodine, former NASCAR driver, Daytona 500 winner.
Jeff, thank you for being with us. What does it mean if he hit the throttle?
GEOFF BODINE, NASCAR DRIVER: Well, you know, unless you`ve driven on dirt, in that type of car, dirt built race car, you don`t understand why
drivers do certain things. Dirt doesn`t have the traction that an asphalt track has. So when you turn a car on dirt, it tends to slide. It`s
obvious to me the car in front of Tony had to dodge, had to turn to miss Kevin. Kevin was so far down on the track. When he dodged, and there
Kevin stood in front of Tony, Tony turned the wheel to the left trying to steer away from Kevin, but on dirt, the car doesn`t respond as quickly. So
yes, you can hit the gas, because that`s on dirt, that`s a lot of way you drive the car, with the gas pedal, throttle, and he tried to get the car
going forward away from Kevin to miss him. There wasn`t enough time. Dirt cars don`t have the traction that they do on asphalt. There just wasn`t
enough time for Tony to make that correction.
GRACE: With me, in addition to Todd Halladay and Rachel Nichols, pro driver, Daytona 500 winner Geoff Bodine. Now, just to throw another
wrinkle into it, everybody. Now, remember, you go on to a racetrack in the middle of a race, what do you think is going to happen to you? On the
other hand, take a listen to this. Did Tony Stewart have a reputation for rage?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In 2001, Tony Stewart spins out Jeff Gordon`s car on a pit road after a race. 2002, Stewart has an altercation with the
media at a race. 2004, Stewart has an altercation with driver Brian Vickers after a race. 2007, Stewart is fined for cursing during a post-
race interview. 2009, Stewart hits a member of another pit crew team with his car. 2012, Stewart gets out of his car and throws his helmet at Matt
Kenseth`s car during a race. 2013, Stewart causes a 15-car pileup during a Sprint car race. He storms and threatens another driver, Joey Logano,
after the race.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Now to Ferguson, Missouri. Rocked by the shooting death of an unarmed African-American teen, shot dead by police as the teen walks to his
grandmother`s. Witnesses are insisting to us tonight that Brown, the teen, had his hands up in the air when he was shot repeatedly by the police
officer. We are not taking sides tonight, but we`re not getting the information we need. We can`t find out what happened in the critical
moments when the two teens walked by the police officers. They`re sitting in their police car. Next thing you know, one of them is dead. And we
can`t get answers. Well, tonight we demand answers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He wasn`t causing no harm to anybody. We had no weapons on us at all.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Walking home from the convenience store with his friend Mike Brown. They were walking on the street when a Ferguson police
officer from his vehicle told the boys to get out of the street. They kept walking. Causing the officer to confront the boys. First from his car,
then got out of the car firing a shot.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You took my son away from me. You know how hard it was?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You know, Kevin Killeen joining me, KMOX 1120. Kevin, I don`t even know what to make of it yet, because I can`t get the facts. The
police didn`t have a dash cam. Normally, Kevin, I would take the police`s word for it. I`m a former prosecutor, I believe what they tell me. But I
can`t get the answer from them. I can`t figure out what happened in those crucial moments from the time the two walked by the cop car, and suddenly
one of them`s dead. Now, how did that happen?
KEVIN KILLEEN, KMOX: Initially we heard of a parentheses of an altercation that wasn`t mentioned off the top there in your report.
Supposedly the officer had words with the man who was later shot and killed, and there was a scuffle in which the officer was pushed into his
patrol car, and they struggled for the gun, according to initial reports, in the car. A shot went off --
GRACE: Wait, wait, wait. Kevin Killeen, KMOX, back it up for a moment. The cops -- there are two cops in the car, is that right?
KILLEEN: There`s one officer in the car, as I understand it.
GRACE: One officer in the car. Two males walk by. One of them the teen Michael Brown. So they`re walking by, and then what happens?
KILLEEN: Well, according to the initial police report, they say that there were words exchanged, and a scuffle over the gun in which the young
man who was later shot pushed the officer into the car, and --
GRACE: Hold on. Kevin, Kevin, I don`t mean to interrupt, but I have got to take this step by step. All right. The one cop sitting in the car,
armed, of course, as he should be. The two come along. One of them being Michael Brown, the teen. Words are exchanged. And then there`s a scuffle.
Okay, right there, right there, I don`t understand how words were exchanged, because two people are walking by your car. Why were words
exchanged and why did words turn into a scuffle? That`s what I need to know.
KILLEEN: Well, this is unconfirmed, but there was initial reports that the officer was questioning them about whether there had been any
shoplifting at the Quick Trip from which they had just come. None of this is confirmed. This is what we heard originally in the Associated Press
report of these initial police reports. But none of this is confirmed by the overarching St. Louis County police department, which picked up the
investigation. They`re not saying the shooting was justified. And now the FBI is opening a parallel investigation, and they aren`t commenting either
on, you know, the initial choreography of what happened. What was the sequence of events that led from the initial contact to the shooting.
GRACE: Okay. This is where I`m coming from. Philip Holloway is joining us right now, former police officer, former prosecutor. Philip,
thank you for being with us. Now, if the two are walking by and the cop says hey, you guys know anything about a shoplifting back there at the
Quick Trip, right there I don`t have a problem with that. But how does it get to the point where you gun down an unarmed teen? I got to have an
excuse for that. If the cop gets out of the car and one of them pushes the cop, that`s a whole other thing. But I`m not hearing that. Why aren`t
they telling us?
PHILIP HOLLOWAY, FORMER POLICE OFFICER AND PROSECUTOR: They`re still doing the investigation, and the facts are not at all clear, as you pointed
out. But I will tell you this, as a former police officer, if it`s true that someone was trying to take over control of his weapon, he absolutely
would have been justified using deadly force. It`s happened to me, Nancy, as a police officer, I have had somebody try to take my gun and fortunately
it didn`t turn into a shooting situation. But if it comes down to me having to use deadly force against someone or them using it against me, I`m
going to use it against them, and that very well could be what happened here in this case.
GRACE: Philip Holloway, I agree with you 300 percent. If someone comes at a police officer who is wearing a gun and they go for the gun,
then the cop is justified in pulling the gun and firing it. But what I don`t get, I don`t get, they`re walking by, he, we think, says, hey, what
happened back there at the Quick Trip, do you know anything about a shoplifting? How does that`s escalate to gunning down an unarmed teen?
Everyone, you`re seeing a shot right now of teen Michael Brown. He is shot multiple times noon on Saturday. Tonight, we want answers.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: An unarmed teen has been gunned down and we`re trying to find out the truth behind it. To Cheryl Hunter, trauma recovery expert and
author. I`d like to hear your thoughts on this.
HUNTER: There are so many pieces that the family of Michael Brown are going to have to pick up, and the community will have to do the same. But
whether or not we have the answers and they can know really what happened yet, there`s an opportunity for them to come together. And if they do
that, they can begin the road to healing.
GRACE: But the anguish of this mom. This is her teen boy, for Pete`s sakes. The last she knows he was going to the Quick Trip and his
grandmother`s, now he`s dead.
HUNTER: It makes absolutely no sense. And she`ll question probably for the rest of her life. But the irony is that questioning, what could I
have done differently, why did this happen, why did they do that? Unfortunately that line of questioning will never bring the relief that she
seeks.
GRACE: Kevin Killeen, KMOX, when will we learn if the police officer thought the teen or the guy he was with were going for his gun? The only
way this thing is going to be justified. Michael, his satellite is down. When will we learn the police officer`s side of the story?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The investigation is continuing, Nancy. They haven`t given a deadline. We also haven`t heard from the medical examiner.
We don`t know exactly how many times Michael Brown was shot, and that may be a critical piece of information in this case.
GRACE: Here`s the deal. Unless this was a struggle over a gun or self-defense, you`ve got a lot of explaining to do when you gun down an
unarmed teen. That`s what I`m screaming.
Let`s stop and remember American hero, Army Sergeant First Class Colin Bowen, 38, Perry Hall, Maryland. Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Army
Commendation Medal, a computer science grad, parents Michael and Carolyn, stepparents Richard and Beverly. Two brothers, widow Ursula, three
daughters. Colin Bowen, American hero.
And tonight, a special happy birthday to little Mackenzie, just started third grade, loves the outdoors, fishing with dad, and little
sister. And I can tell you she does a fantastic cartwheel. And happy birthday to Andrea. Loves baking pastry, charity events, traveling. Here
she is with her daughters Danielle and Michelle. All three beautiful. Everyone, thank you for being with us. Drew up next. I`ll see you
tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.
END
