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Nancy Grace
Protests in Ferguson Continue
Aired August 14, 2014 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. After four nights of extreme violence, the city of Ferguson, Missouri, ripped apart, tear gas, Molotov
cocktails, after an unarmed teen shot dead in the street, the teen shot dead by police as reports say the teen walks to his grandmother`s,
witnesses insisting to us the teen`s hands up in the air when he is shot repeatedly by the officer.
Bombshell tonight. Police still refusing not only to release the name of the shooter but to even release the cop`s side of the story. Since when in
this country can you gun somebody down and not even give an explanation? Since when? We`re not taking sides, but we want answers!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The first gunshot came from the window. He breaks away, and he starts running away from the cop. The cop follows him, kept
shooting. The kid`s body jerked as if he was hit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live, Amish country. A quiet and peace-loving community torn asunder after two little Amish girls kidnapped, snatched from their
parents` roadside fruit and vegetable stand. Making the search even more difficult, the Amish taboo on photographs, pictures of any kind, leaving
police with an uphill battle.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two little Amish girls have been abducted right from the family`s roadside vegetable stand.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re checking certain areas. No indication to take us any certain direction at this point.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police are searching around the town and...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, an Illinois teen and her lover spotted in exotic Bali after the girl`s mother`s body found half-naked, bloody, stuffed in a
suitcase, the suitcase covered in blood and left in a taxicab outside the five-star resort as the daughter checks out.
Friends had long warned the loving mom her teen girl was a, quote, "vicious monster," nearly convincing Mommy not to take the girl on a dream trip to
Bali. Mommy didn`t listen.
Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. After four nights of extreme violence, the city of Ferguson, Missouri, ripped apart, tear gas, Molotov cocktails, after an
unarmed teen shot dead in the street, the teen shot dead by police as he walks to his grandmother`s, witnesses insisting to us the teen`s hands up
in the air when he is repeatedly shot by the officer, police still refusing to release the name of the shooter. They won`t even release the cop`s side
of the story.
Now, since when in this country is it OK to gun somebody down dead in the street and you don`t have to give an explanation, much less from those we
look up to the most, the police? We are not taking sides, please hear me, but we want answers.
I very rarely, rarely speak out against police because I have been there with them on the street, prosecuting the crimes that they worked up,
working with them, behind them, hand in hand. But it is not OK to shoot a teen down in the street and not even give an explanation! Nobody,
including the police -- nobody is above the law!
Straight out to Ana Cabrera, CNN correspondent. Ana, what is the latest? What is this, Molotov cocktails, tear gas?
ANA CABRERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Nancy, the protests continue to grow day by day ever since the shooting that was now five days
ago, Saturday afternoon. We are hearing differentiating accounts about exactly what happened in the protests overnight. And of course, the latest
protest was fiery. It was explosive, perhaps the most chaotic scene that we`ve seen since all this began.
Protesters say the police were the aggressors. Police say their response of force, firing tear gas and flash-bangs into the crowd, were a response
to, they say, a Molotov cocktail being lit and a desire to disperse the crowd to keep the situation from growing out of control, especially after
the looting that happened here on Sunday night, Nancy.
GRACE: Well, there`s absolutely no excuse for looting, to ride the coattails of this teen`s death to, what, go steal a microwave? I mean,
that doesn`t even make any sense to me.
Sybil Wilkes is joining me, co-host of the Tom Joyner morning show. Weigh, in Sybil.
SYBIL WILKES, CO-HOST, TOM JOYNER MORNING SHOW: Well, here`s the deal, Nancy. And I think that as we`re getting more and more information, it`s a
lot of frustration amongst the people. At least, that`s what we`re hearing from the folks from the Tom Joyner morning show family, is that you just
can`t believe in the year 2014 that no information is being forthcoming from the police department.
We -- OK, we don`t know the police officer`s name. And now we know that two guys were arrested yesterday, two members of the journalism family were
arrested yesterday. And they were arrested for not packing up quickly enough?
We have all these people who just want answers, and we`re very frustrated in that this seems like something out of the 1950s, 1940s, maybe, even.
GRACE: Well, I`m very concerned...
WILKES: We`re not getting information.
GRACE: With me, Sybil Wilkes from the Tom Joyner morning show. She`s the co-host there. I`m very concerned about getting more facts. What
happened?
Now, we did learn this from the police chief. We learned the police chief has stated -- and I completely agree, if they don`t want to release the
name of the police officer due to fear for his safety. I agree. We don`t need another dead body, all right? What we need is justice. So I
understand that.
What we`ve learned from police in the last hours is that the police officer himself was taken to the hospital, his face was swollen up, so there was
more to the conflict than what we are hearing. But according to witnesses that are now emerging, still, was shooting the child, the teen, repeatedly
justified?
Take a listen to the most recent witness account.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As I was coming around the corner, I heard the tires squeaking on the truck. And as I get closer is when I see them tussling
through the window. Like, the kid was pulling off, and the cop was, like, pulling in. That just didn`t just look right for them to be rassling.
But the first gunshot came from the window., so I started getting out of the way because the shots just came after that. At this time, after the
shot, the kid breaks away and he starts running away from the cop. The cop follows him, just kept shooting, and the kid`s body jerked as if he was
hit. And after his body jerked, he turned around, he puts his hands up. And the cop just continues to walk up on him and shoot him until he goes
all the way down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Colin Jeffrey, news director, KTRS. If that is true, then there is going to be a grand jury proceeding, or at least I think there will be,
Colin.
COLIN JEFFREY, KTRS (via telephone): Yes, and that`s what we`re understanding. Yesterday, St. Louis County prosecutor Bob McCullough (ph)
essentially said they`re not releasing much information right now because they don`t want to tamper with any potential witnesses. They want to hear
everyone`s unvarnished, unprepared story before they let too much information out there. Now, they haven`t said exactly what the officer
would be facing...
GRACE: Right.
JEFFREY: ... but we do know at this point that the investigation is ongoing, and St. Louis County police and the prosecutor`s office at this
point are running that.
GRACE: With me right now, Daryl Parks, attorney for Michael Brown`s family. Daryl, thank you for being with us. I know that you`ve just come
out of a meeting with the governor. What, if anything, did you learn? And if it`s just more platitudes, like, Oh, we`ll get to the bottom of it, you
know, just save your breath.
Do you know anything else about the facts, or is this going to a grand jury, Daryl?
DARYL PARKS, BROWN FAMILY ATTORNEY (via telephone): Well, what I know -- actually, it wasn`t the governor. The governor had to go to another
appointment. But it was the U.S. attorney`s office, the Civil Rights Division of the Department of Justice. And what they have promised is that
we`ll get a very thorough investigation from the federal level to supplant what`s being done at the state level.
So this family has a lot more confidence, and I think that`s the important part here, that they now have confidence that someone officially is going
to investigate their child`s death. And it`s not going to be some hometown mumbo-jumbo that...
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa! Wait a minute! Wait a minute! Daryl, I`m not taking sides. I want to hear more evidence. I want to hear
everything, all the witnesses have to say. Tonight, the police chief saying the cop, who`s not releasing the name or any information about him,
had a swollen face.
Now, what does that mean to me? To me, that`s still inconsistent with repeat shooting somebody as they`re running away. It still doesn`t make
sense. But I`m not trashing the investigators there until I have a reason to.
But what I don`t like, Daryl, is that nowhere in this country are you allowed to gun somebody down and not give an explanation. That`s not
allowed, especially from the ones we look up to the most, the police.
PARKS: Without question (INAUDIBLE) and that`s why people are so outraged in Missouri right now, that -- and throughout the country, that this guy
has not been held accountable. I mean, think about it. You know, they talk about there`s been toxicology done on Michael, but we don`t know if
any toxicology was done on the officer.
And it`s just that small type of lack of transparency that`s causing a huge problem in the confidence that so many people that our country have with
what`s going on in Ferguson, Missouri.
GRACE: With me is the attorney for Michael Brown`s family, Daryl Parks. In the last hours, tear gas, Molotov cocktails, the little town of Ferguson
torn asunder, ripped apart, after this shooting.
Daryl Parks, attorney for the Brown family, I understand that a hacker group claims that they have hacked into the Ferguson Police Department`s
files and have obtained the police officer`s name, his address, and private information about the chief of police.
You know what? On that, I agree that the police officer should remain anonymous for now and let justice unfold. I`m worried if he has a family
and children at home -- that`s what I`m worried about, Daryl. And I don`t want his head on a stick. I want an investigation. I want a response from
police. That`s what I want.
PARKS: Well, I think this family wants the same thing. But what you`re seeing, though, is there are some facts that they should be able to tell
us, Nancy. In our country, we see serious situations happen every day, and at the very onset, law enforcement is able to give the public some facts so
that we have a real gist of what happened and what they`re doing about it.
In this situation, we have a young man who was murdered in the street. I rode down that street today where that child laid in the middle of that
street. I mean, he died an awful death in the middle of that very hard street at the hands of that officer. And so for this family not to have
any answers, right, for his poor mother and father to just be totally lost right now...
GRACE: Daryl, Daryl, Daryl...
PARKS: ... without any information...
GRACE: ... Daryl Parks, you know what? This week, I took John David and Lucy for their first day of 1st grade. And I am not sinking my whole life
into loving them for them to die on the street with their hands up in the air! Now, if it didn`t happen that way, good!
You just met with the attorney general. What did he tell you?
PARKS: The U.S. attorney`s office gave this family the confidence that they needed to hear, Nancy. And that`s important because up until now,
they had no confidence in the process in our country that their child was going to get justice. So only in the last hour did they get reassured
feelings that our system was going to work for them, too.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a build-up to what`s been going on in this community for a very long time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Return to your vehicles!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The cop follows him, kept shooting.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Return to your homes!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After his body jerked, he turned around, he puts his hands up, and the cop just...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining me, Jason Oshins out of New York, Shireen Hormozdi joining me out of Atlanta.
Jason Oshins, you are a long-time veteran trial lawyer. And I am not taking sides here, but since when is it OK to gun somebody down and not
give some sort of an explanation? I mean, I understand the delay while they did a cursory -- the beginnings of an investigation. But they got to
come up with something. I have just never seen this happen before.
JASON OSHINS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, you and I both know that police officers are generally part of a union. There is a protocol that`s
involved anytime that there is a shooting, whether or not we determine ultimately that it`s justified or not. But that`s part of the protocol,
and I think that...
GRACE: Wa-wa! What did you say about a union?
OSHINS: Police officers are members of a union, generally, municipal union...
GRACE: Oh, excuse me! I was thinking about that thing, the U.S. Constitution?
OSHINS: Right, Nancy, I`m talking about...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... my father was in a union his whole life. I get the union. But that does not trump the Constitution.
OSHINS: I`m not talking about that. I`m talking about collective bargaining and a protocol that goes along with it. These are employees.
There is a process.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... you`re saying!
OSHINS: Nancy...
GRACE: I don`t even know that you`re saying! Collective bargaining? I`ve got a boy dead in the street!
OSHINS: Any -- but you`re asking -- Nancy, you`re asking why there`s a delay in the process, and this might be part of it in terms of what the
officer has to comply with...
GRACE: You know what?
OSHINS: ... in terms of giving information.
GRACE: I got to give you this, Oshins. I didn`t see that coming. Collective bargaining? They`re members of a union?
OK, Hormozdi, you got anything better for me than that?
SHIREEN HORMOZDI, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think the investigators don`t want to taint the witness`s statements, so they`re keeping the officer`s
information private, what he said happened.
GRACE: OK, Jason Oshins, Shireen Hormozdi joining us. Joining me right now is Benjamin Crump, in addition to Daryl Parks. Benjamin, thank you so
much for being with us. Did you hear what the two defense lawyers just said, that we don`t have an answer about a dead teen in the street unarmed
because of collective bargaining with the union?
BENJAMIN CRUMP, BROWN FAMILY ATTORNEY (via telephone): Nancy, I know it`s very troubling to this family and many in the community that this unarmed
teenager -- by every account, he was unarmed, and he was shot multiple times. As I`ve said on prior interviews, it is the worst police shooting
I`ve ever seen because it`s broad daylight. You know the young man does not have a weapon. And as many of the witnesses have said, it was an
execution.
And I think you`re going to see very soon the trajectory of this bullets of young man. And there`s no way to justify it. So I don`t know why they
won`t tell this family some answers.
GRACE: You know, you`re right about the bullet trajectory path because if that trajectory is going downwards -- in other words, if the trajectory
shows that the shooter, the police officer, shot Michael Brown as he was kneeling down, backwards to front, upwards to lower -- they got a problem
there.
To C.W. Jensen, retired police captain, joining me out of Cave Creek. C.W., on the cop`s side -- let`s hear from his side because they`re not
speaking for him. I`ve never seen somebody, a civilian, gunned down and cops don`t give an explanation.
But I know this cop went to the hospital. If this was a scenario where Michael Brown was wrestling with the cop to get the gun, I get it. I
completely get it. The cop was by himself. He didn`t have a partner. If a perpetrator gets a gun, they could shoot the cop and everybody standing
around. I understand that. But these witnesses are not saying that, C.W.
C.W. JENSEN, RETIRED POLICE CAPTAIN: And that`s why we do investigations and that`s why those investigations aren`t immediately obvious to
everybody. This will be transparent. You have the feds involved. You`ve got a separate agency doing the investigation.
If the cop did the horrible things that people are saying, he`s going to go to jail forever! And if there were some mitigating facts, that`ll change
everything. And if it happened exactly like the police say, it -- but we have to wait. And the press`s need to know is outweighed by the need to
just do an investigation. I would do it different if I was (INAUDIBLE) CIO (ph).
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: At this hour, the small town of Ferguson, Missouri, torn apart -- tear gas, Molotov cocktails. Look at this, here on our American streets
after an unarmed teen is gunned down in the street by police. No word from police about their side of the story, now hackers claiming they have the
police officer`s name and are threatening to release it. I beg them, Don`t do it! Don`t put the officer`s family at risk until we can sort it out!
Straight to Dr. Bill Manion, medical examiner, out of Philly tonight. Dr. Manion, we`re talking about the trajectory path or angle of the bullet as
Michael Brown is shot. If it shows upwards to downwards, front to back, would it not suggest, or in fact, prove the teen was kneeling down when he
was shot?
DR. BILL MANION, MEDICAL EXAMINER (via telephone): Yes, that`s correct. They can -- there`s multiple bullet wounds here, so it`s going to be a very
long autopsy because we`ll have to see which one -- where the entrance is, where the exit is, exactly what the trajectory is, and try to piece
together from witnesses what the order of the bullets are. Apparently, they said he was shot in the back first, and then turned around and was
shot multiple times. That can be determined by the autopsy.
GRACE: You know, you`re telling me something new, Dr. Manion. I didn`t realize they would be able to determine which bullet came first. And that
will aid so much. Right now, the family asking for an independent autopsy.
With me, Daryl Parks, attorney for Michael Brown`s family. With him, Benjamin Crump. Gentlemen, thank you, again, so much for being with us
tonight. I know that you are so close to the investigation, but even you don`t know the police`s side of the story.
To Daryl Parks. Why is the family insisting on an independent autopsy?
PARKS: Well, if nothing else, Nancy, the great number of gunshots in this case, as all -- many of the witnesses that have come forward have said, is
a clear indication that this officer shot poor Michael so many times that he didn`t have to when he was trying to surrender. All the witnesses are
consistent that have come forward, notwithstanding what the police are saying. So we believe this is a very conclusive case and one of the worst
cases that we`ve ever seen.
GRACE: And to Benjamin Crump. What is your understanding? You`re in the middle of it. We`re on the outside looking in, as to what the cop`s story
is.
CRUMP: You know, it really comes a time when you have to be transparent not just for the family`s sake but for the community`s sake. This
community is saying, We have no faith in the local law enforcement. We believe they`re not going to tell us the truth and try to sweep this young
man`s death under the rug.
And when you`re in that situation, the police have an obligation to the community to say that, We want you to have confidence that we`re going to
give due process to everybody, even Michael Brown`s family.
GRACE: To Ramani Durvasula, clinical psychologist out of LA. This is leaving me and so many others with a feeling of injustice because we`re
searching for answers. And if the police could just make a statement and tell us where the investigation stands, what they`re doing, that they`re
doing something...
RAMANI DURVASULA, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: With each passing day that answers don`t come, the frustration level in this community is going to go
up and up and up. We`re at a distance watching this case and we`re frustrated. Imagine his family, his friends, his community members. And
that lack of information is the kind of thing that builds ongoing frustrations. And my guess is there`s been ongoing frustrations in this
community to a fever pitch, where we`re seeing this kind of response, where the community is up in arms and all of these terrible things are happening.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: And now to Amish country, a quiet and peace-loving community torn asunder after two little Amish girls kidnapped, snatched from their
parents` roadside fruit and vegetable stand. Making the search even more difficult, the Amish taboo on photographs, leaving police with an uphill
battle.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Two little Amish girls have been abducted.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don`t have a lot of good leads.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A neighbor says the sisters, ages 12 and 6, went to the roadside stand to wait on a customer. Moments later, a car drove away.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out live to the scene standing by, Amanda Purcell, joining us from Hubbleton with the "Watertown Daily Times."
Amanda, this is shocking. It was broad daylight about 7:00 p.m. This is a very rural community. It is Amish country. I`m not quite sure I
understand. I know that the fruit stand was up there near the parents` home and that when a customer would come up, I guess, on the road, somebody
in the family would go out to the fruit stand. That`s not unusual in rural areas along the roadside.
What do you know happened, Amanda?
AMANDA PURCELL, "WATERTOWN DAILY TIMES": We know very little information in terms of the I.D. of the possible suspect, if there is any at this
point. You know, the vegetable stand was just a few yards away from the family`s home. There are some concerns about whether the -- you know, this
time and what the girls were -- what time in fact they went missing.
GRACE: You know, that`s very, very concerning, Amanda Purcell, joining us from the "Watertown Daily Times." This is an Amish community. And we have
made repeated calls to police so we can get the word out on these two little girls.
For those of you just joining us, two little girls have been snatched from their parents` roadside fruit and vegetable stand. And we can`t get any
information. As you all may know, there is an Amish taboo of sorts on photographs. We don`t have photographs of the little girls, making it that
much more difficult to get the word out about these two missing children.
Let`s go over the facts as we know them.
Very quickly, Alexis Weed, so it`s around 7:00 p.m. There is the scene. It`s a very rural area. The parents, these Amish parents, have a roadside
vegetable and fruit stand.
And that`s not unusual. My mother`s family, my mother`s family including her, worked on a roadside fruit stand in a very, very rural area, growing
the produce, cleaning it, wrapping it and selling it on the side of the road. That`s how they made a living.
And this is not unusual for the children to work on the fruit stand. What I`m just trying to nail down are the facts surrounding this, Alexis.
ALEXIS WEED, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right. So it was about 7:20 in the evening. These girls were with their parents. They were in a barn nearby
this fruit stand. They go out to the fruit stand because they believe that there`s a customer who wants help there. So they go to the fruit stand,
the customer is there.
And what we know is that a witness saw a car, a white four-door sedan, a small sedan, pulling away from this fruit stand. And when it pulled away,
these girls were gone. The witness said that they saw someone throw something into the back of this car and also get into the backseat.
Someone got into the backseat of that car. It pulls away. The girls are nowhere to be seen.
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa, back it up. Back it up.
WEED: Sure.
GRACE: Let`s talk about the car, let`s talk about the car and any description of the two little girls.
For those of you that are watching our program tonight or can hear our program on Sirius or XM, two little Amish girls taken from the rural town
of Hubbleton. And we are trying our best to get the word out to find the two little girls. Due to the Amish taboo, they don`t want to have photos
taken of them. I can`t show you a photo of the girl.
So, Alexis, give it to me in a nutshell. With what do we think the girls look like and what did the vehicle look like?
WEED: OK. So the vehicle is a four-door sedan, it`s white, it`s described as being small. That`s all we know about the car at this point. So --
also the girls, though, they both have brown hair, long hair down to their waist, but they usually wear it up because they wear a bonnet over their
head. And at time that they went missing they were wearing traditional Amish clothing. They were in dark blue dresses with aprons on them. And
also both of them had on these black bonnets.
Investigators are saying that it`s possible that whoever did abduct these two girls may have changed their appearance so they`ve released this one --
GRACE: Wait, wait, wait. What am I seeing? This is a sketch of what, Justin? A sketch of the older girl with her hair pulled back. OK. Go
ahead, Alexis.
WEED: Right. So the only sketch we have so far, the only image really is this 12-year-old. Police are saying that the family is not agreeable to
even having a sketch of the 6-year-old. So this is all we have to go by right now. But as I said before, investigators believe that the abductor
may have changed the appearance of this girl.
GRACE: Let me get this straight, Alexis. You`ve got one little, 12, Fannie, one little girl 6, Delila.
WEED: Right.
GRACE: Both last name Miller. Brown hair, blue eyes, five feet talk, eyes slightly crossed, 98 pounds. Last seen wearing dark blue dress, blue apron
black bonnet. Let`s see -- there you go, their traditional dress. Delila, white female, brown hair, brown eyes, four feet tall, 50 pounds. Round
scar on forehead, missing both of her little front teeth. Last seen dark blue dress, blue apron, black bonnet.
All right. What I didn`t hear in that description is -- Amanda Purcell with the "Watertown Daily Times," do we have a make and model on the car
last seen where the girls rushed out to the car they came up to the fruit stand. The neighbor sees them go toward the car. The car takes off. And
when the car takes off, the girls are gone.
What`s the make and model on the car as best as we know it, Amanda?
PURCELL: So, see, that`s the trick there, Nancy, is that we have members of the Amish community that are giving this description of the vehicle.
And you have to remember that the members of the Amish community can`t really tell you if a car is older or newer and what the make or model is.
So we know that police there are scouring the area. They`re talking and interviewing.
GRACE: Well, wait a minute. Wait a minute. I`ve got to get back to the car. They`re in the car. They can scour the area all they want to. But
according to the witness they`re in the car.
Alexis, you`re showing me this white vehicle. Why are you showing me this white vehicle? Is that what we think the car looks like?
WEED: That`s exactly right. That`s what we think it looks like.
GRACE: What is it?
WEED: It`s been described as a four-door white sedan, a small sedan is what police are saying.
GRACE: Like a Honda.
WEED: Yes.
GRACE: OK. This is what we think the car looks like. Another thing I don`t understand, I can`t tell you how difficult it is to try to find a
missing child when you cannot publicize the child`s photo.
To Mark L. Louden, professor of German, University of Wisconsin, he teaches Amish language and culture.
Professor, thank you for being with us. What is the temerity amongst the Amish regarding photos? What`s that all about?
This is a very long-standing prohibition, Nancy, that ultimately is grounded in their interpretation of the Second Commandment, "Thou shall not
make a graven image." And so basically any human image, a photograph, a painting, a drawing, is considered a violation of the Second Commandment.
Secondarily --
GRACE: You mean "Thou shall not have any graven images before you?" That one?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct. Number two. The Second Commandment. Beyond that, the Amish are also -- they also strive to live a life of humility and
avoid vanity. And so the feeling that if you allow yourself to have your photograph -- allow your photograph to be taken or an image to be made of
you in, say, a painting or a drawing or something like that, that could inspire people to be vain or feel proud of themselves.
And so it`s considered appropriate to kind of de-emphasize somebody`s appearance. And that also kind of supports the interpretation on the ban
on photography.
One thing I should point out, though, also that hasn`t come out yet, that this particular Amish community near Hubbleton in Saint Lawrence County is
a particular subgroup among the Amish known as the Swartzentruber Amish. And this group is particularly conservative.
GRACE: With me is Professor Mark Louden explaining why I can`t show you photos of these two missing girls.
Everyone, the two little girls, one`s 6 years old, the other 12, Fannie and Delila Miller, snatched from their parents` roadside fruit and vegetable
stand broad daylight. Parents just inside in the barn.
Hold on, right now taking you straight to the police presser. Let`s go.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These girls don`t have to be dressed in Amish clothes anymore. Their hair could have been cut from the waist length hair. And
from there. But just pay attention. You know, especially if you end up, it`s a 6-year-old or a 12-year-old with heavy accent and, you know,
sounding what, you know, would be odd to you in that Pennsylvania Dutch.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: An Illinois teen and her lover just spotted in exotic Bali after the teen girl`s mother`s body found half naked, bloody, stuffed in a
suitcase. The suitcase covered in blood and left in a taxi cab just outside a five-star resort while the daughter from hell checks out.
Now friends we learned tonight have long warned this loving mom that her teen girl was, quote, "a vicious monster." And they nearly convinced mommy
not to take the girl on the dream trip to Bali. Mommy didn`t listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: On vacation in one of the nicest hotels on the planet. Authorities searching for answers after the woman turns up dead.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The taxi driver then checked the trunk, discovered blood on the suitcase, and drove to the police station where it was opened
and the body discovered.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Inside a suitcase.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Well, the story gets worse. Take a look inside this five-star resort hotel. Friends had warned the mom not to take the teen daughter who
had caused nothing but trouble on the trip. The daughter would leave home, come back, was dating a guy the mom thought was no good. There were 86, 86
phone calls to police to the home in the months leading up to the death of the mother.
Well, the mother thinks she knows best. She trusts her daughter. She takes the daughter and the daughter`s lover on this dream trip. Take a
look at this. To a five-star hotel resort. The Saint Regis resort. Well, the next thing we know mommy`s body is found butchered in a suitcase. The
daughter puts anytime a taxicab, goes in to, quote, "check out" and leaves. She`s found a couple of hours later with her lover in another hotel asleep.
Straight out to Ric Federichi, general manager and partner, WIMS.
Thank you so much for being with us. It`s my understanding that all of the mom`s friends warned her, don`t take your daughter on the trip. I guess
they knew something mommy didn`t.
RIC FEDERICHI, GENERAL MANAGER AND PARTNER, WIMS AM 1420: Unbelievable, Nancy. They said don`t do it, she did it. The boyfriend shows up. The
whole spin on them arguing potentially in the lobby. There`s a whole bunch of new stuff coming out. Did they argue? They hold (INAUDIBLE) suitcases
out in front of the hotel, told the taxicab driver to wait. He waited there for two hours only to find out that they allegedly then went out the
back of the hotel and I guess (INAUDIBLE) from what we understand, all report texted and there`s a whole other spin to this, Nancy. It`s
unbelievable.
GRACE: With me is Ric Federichi. Also with me joining me just now, Michael Elkin, attorney for Heather Mack, the teen girl suspected of
killing her mother in Bali. Michael Elkin joining me from Chicago.
Michael, how did you get hooked up with Heather Mack, and are you somehow going to get her extradited to the U.S., and if so, how?
MICHAEL ELKIN, ATTORNEY FOR DAUGHTER SUSPECTED OF KILLING MOM: We expect extradition, I think we haven`t even gotten to that point yet. Right now
we`re just trying to establish the logistics of getting local council there which is primarily my job right now. And hopefully I`ll be making a trip
out there soon.
GRACE: And now "CNN HEROES."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have deployed to Afghanistan three times. We head out and spend hours on guard. We`d come back and the dogs would be so
excited to see us. You forget that you`re halfway across the world in a desert with hostile things going on.
PEN FARTHING, FORMER ROYAL MARINE, CNN HERO: At every single street corner in Kabul you will find stray dogs. Looking after a dog or a cat does
relieves stress in, you know, daily lives. And so it holds true for, you know, a soldier as well. When I was serving in Afghanistan, I actually
thought I was quite unique in looking after this dog, but I was wrong.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Once we came close to leaving, I knew that I didn`t want to leave them behind.
FARTHING: To date now the organization has actually rescued over 650 dogs or cats for serving soldiers from around the world.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Also we help the stray animals out in the streets. There is a big problem with rabies. We`re not just helping the animal,
we`re not just helping the animals, we`re helping the Afghan people.
FARTHING: When we get a call from a soldier, we have to get the dog from wherever the soldier is in Afghanistan to our shelter in Kabul. We`ll
neuter and spay the dog and we vaccinate it against a variety of diseases. Then the animal starts his journey from Kabul to the soldier`s home
country.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I pulled Kate (ph) inside of the crate, you know, I was just so excited. I was even more excited that she remembered me. I
can`t believe that they`re here. She`s been such a help. She`s a huge part of the transition being easier.
FARTHING: If I have never met Nowzad in the first place, none of this would have happened. You know, my connection with Afghanistan stays alive
because of Nowzad so for me, you know, every time I look at him, it just makes me smile.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Mommy found butchered and folded up into a bloody suitcase as her daughter checks out with her lover.
Back to Michael Elkin, joining us exclusively tonight, the lawyer for Heather Mack, charged in her mother`s murder. She`s in a Bali jailhouse
right now.
Michael Elkin, I think you better do some damage control. It sounds like your client, Heather Mack, the teen daughter of the victim, is laughing
about the crowds gathered outside the jailhouse. That`s not a good look.
ELKIN: I heard this from a reporter this morning for the first time actually. And you know, some people, and again, I have an unusual response
to stress or anxiety or whatnot. And I think the comment that she made, and I -- again, I could be wrong, was that you`re crazy and I think maybe
there were some kind of statements they were saying that she had something to do with this unfortunate sad incident of the mother.
I do want to take a moment really quickly to say that I`m not sure that the relationship as you had described it was as volatile. It was a family --
GRACE: Well, I appreciate what you`re saying, Michael. I do. But 86 phone calls to police? That`s excessive. That`s a lot, Michael, under
any, any estimation.
Michael Elkin, thank you for being with us. And we hope you`ll join us again as this case progresses. I`m sure you want her on American soil as
opposed to in a Bali prison where she can face a firing squad.
Let`s stop and remember American hero, Army Private 1st Class Brian Gorham, 21, Woodburn, Kentucky. Bronze Star, Purple Heart, National Defense
Service medal, loved helping neighbors. Parents Tony and Shirley, sister Brandi, brother Henry.
Brian Gorham, American hero.
Thank you for being with us. Drew up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night at 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.
END
