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Nancy Grace
Michigan Jogging Mom Shot Dead
Aired September 01, 2014 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, to Dalton township. A young mom goes on a daily jog while hubby and daughter out of town.
Bombshell tonight. Mommy`s body found riddled with bullets in a ditch along her regular running path.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was a mother, a wife, initially found dying less than a mile from her Dalton township home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rebekah Bletsch likely left for a walk or jog from her home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thought at first to be the victim of a hit-and- run, but then found to have a gunshot wound to the head.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Discovered a shell casing at that time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And to Florida. A young mom rushes her baby to the hospital, in a long line of a recent string of hospital visits, because baby couldn`t
stop vomiting blood. But little did Mommy know that the Florida Children`s Hospital is outfitted with baby monitoring equipment. So a few hours
later, when Mommy`s nursing the baby girl, Mommy`s busted, caught on camera squeezing and suffocating the tiny girl so tightly, the baby turns blue!
Tonight, Mommy busted on camera suffocating her baby girl.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A witness in the room said Brenna (ph) was holding the baby so tightly that her heart rate dropped. The alarm went
off.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Winter (ph) told Orlando police she was trying to suffocate the child.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Intentionally, to get attention, covering the baby`s mouth with her hand until the baby turned blue.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tonight, we go live to north Miami. A 7-year-old little boy jumps into the pool, electrocuted dead! But why?
Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. To Dalton township. A young mother goes on a daily jog while hubby and daughter are out of town this day, Mommy`s body
found riddled with bullets in a ditch along her regular running path. Now, what a coincidence that Daddy goes out of town with the little daughter
that one day, and on that one day, Mommy is shot dead, her body riddled with bullets and found in a ditch, a ditch along her regular running route.
We are taking your calls. Joining us, special undersheriff Dan Stout and James Gemmell with Newstalk WJRW. James, what happened?
JAMES GEMMELL, WJRW (via telephone): Well, as you alluded to there, Nancy, 36-year-old Rebekah Bletsch, or Becky (ph), as she also went by, was
shot in the head while jogging on Automobile Road in Muskegon County`s Dalton township. That`s about three fourths of a mile from her home.
And police don`t know exactly when she left home that evening on Sunday, but they say that the last call that she made to a family member
was around 5:00 PM. The body was found by passersby around 6:10 PM, about an hour and ten minutes later. Police think, for reasons they`re not
saying, that she may have gone back home after going out for a jog and then went back out again.
But regardless, her body found lying along the roadside there, that rural road. Initially, they thought it was a hit-and-run, but later, they
found multiple shell casings.
GRACE: You know, this is what I don`t understand. The husband -- and that`s where every investigation starts when a wife goes missing or is
found dead. Now, the husband, according to police, has a rock-solid alibi. I`m just trying to clarify something. James Gemmell with me from WJRW.
The father and the little girl were out of town for this one day, correct?
GEMMELL: That is correct. They were out by that family camping spot north of Luddington (ph), which -- north of Baldwin, rather -- which I
measured to be about 50 miles away from this particular scene here. I did talk to Undersheriff Dan Stout today, and he had told me that they weren`t
sure whether or not anyone had taken out a life insurance policy on Becky. The reward money right now up to $12,500 and growing.
GRACE: A reward, everyone, $12,500. The tipline, 231-72-CRIME -- 231-722-7463.
Joining me right now, Undersheriff Dan Stout from Muskegon. Sheriff, thank you so much for being with us. I understand the father and the
daughter were about an hour away on a camping trip?
UNDERSHERIFF DAN STOUT, MUSKEGON COUNTY SHERIFF`S DEPT. (via telephone): No, they were going up (ph) (INAUDIBLE) for a camping trip.
And I want to make a correction. The reward is at $10,000 right now.
GRACE: OK. Good to know. So $10,000.
STOUT: Right.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: They were on a camping trip...
STOUT: (INAUDIBLE) well, they went up to cut the grass because they were going to prepare to -- the family was going up to camp for the
weekend. So everybody knew they -- in the family that they were going up there. And they did go up there.
GRACE: Now, let me ask you this. Did the father and the daughter spend the night there?
STOUT: No, they went up that day to cut the grass.
GRACE: So they went up that day, and while they were gone, that`s when the shooting of Mommy occurs?
STOUT: Yes. And from our investigation, that was a regular route and a regular time that she would go on her jog.
GRACE: Interesting. Let me ask you this -- with me is Undersheriff Dan Stout and James Gemmell with WJRW. For those of you just joining us, a
mom goes on her regular running trail. There you see her. Her husband and the daughter are away preparing for a family camping trip, cutting the
grass and getting the area ready. It`s about 50 miles away.
Now, this is what`s also interesting, Sheriff Stout. She goes out -- she`s on the phone at 5:00 PM. At 6:10, her body is found. Who finds her?
STOUT: A neighbor who is a registered nurse and her husband come across the body at that time. And they started CPR, and of course, called
in for medical attention. So fire department and sheriff`s department units then arrived on the scene.
GRACE: Sheriff Dan Stout with us. Sheriff, how many times had she been shot?
STOUT: We`re not releasing that information at this time.
GRACE: OK. But you did find several shell casings in the ditch?
STOUT: That is correct. There was shell casings in the road.
GRACE: Now, is it true, James Gemmell, that when the body of this young mother, Rebekah Bletsch, was found, at first, people thought it was a
hit-and-run. Do you know what that says to me, James? That the bullet wounds, the gunshot wounds were not readily apparent.
GEMMELL: Well, not only that, but even though this was a rural area, Nancy, it`s less than a mile from Michigan`s Adventure (ph), which is the
state`s largest amusement and water park. And so who knows what kind of traffic may have possibly seen her out there jogging there (INAUDIBLE)
Thompson (ph) road.
But yet another shooting in the Muskegon Heights area, and we had a shooting just recently, Rayshun Day in Muskegon Heights. And there`s a
separate task force involved in that shooting, as well. So no indication yet whether there`s a possible connection, but a lot of shootings in that
general area.
GRACE: You know, two shootings of two young women -- extremely coincidental. And I always say, James Gemmell, there is no coincidence in
criminal law. You`ve got this mom shot down. Then you`ve got Rayshun Day shot dead in the same general area. Question to you, James. With Rayshun
Day, how many times was she shot?
GEMMELL: Well, we have indication that there was one shooting in the chest and -- or in the head, rather, and that that person died a week
later. There was another shooting involving a motorcyclist, but police don`t think that that had anything to do with the Rayshun Day case.
GRACE: Everyone, we are talking about a young mom found dead along a quiet rural route just three quarters of a mile from home. Take a look at
Rebekah Bletsch. She`s found dead. At first, the neighbor that found her, a registered nurse, believes it`s a hit-and-run. But then we discovered a
gunshot wound, we believe, to the head.
She seemed to be going for the job, her daily jog. All the neighbors knew her route. They often saw her going. And coincidentally, this was
the single day her husband and their young daughter were away, away for the day.
Let`s go back over the timeline. But first, unleash the lawyers. Joining me tonight, Peter Odom, defense attorney, former prosecutor, out of
Atlanta. Also with me, Shireen Hormozdi, defense attorney, as well, veteran trial lawyer.
All right, Peter Odom, why is it that the husband always comes under suspicion? Now, let me just point out this husband is not a suspect, a
target, a person of interest, nothing.
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, almost 90 percent of murders are committed by those around the victim, so they always look at the family
first. They always look at the husband, wife or domestic partner first. There`s absolutely nothing to indicate that this husband had anything to do
with this death, however. He was making a routine trip. And you say there`s no such thing as a coincidence in criminal law...
GRACE: Wait! Wa-wa-wa-wa-wait! Wait! A routine trip.
ODOM: Right.
GRACE: OK, let`s just back that up for a minute. To Sheriff Dan Stout. Let`s talk about this routine trip. How often did they go camping?
Was that routine, or was it once a year?
STOUT: That, I do not know. I`m not on the task force. That`s what the detectives are following up on, you know, not only that but looking at,
you know, her work life as a therapist, and you know, other leads that have come in. So you know, we`re -- we`re...
GRACE: Well, we`re talking about a routine trip...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... a routine trip. How often did they go and cut the grass at the campground?
STOUT: That I don`t know. That would be the investigators...
GRACE: All right. So we don`t know anything about this being a routine trip, Peter Odom. We know that they were going on a camping trip,
and the father took the daughter that day, of all days, to go cut the grass for the camping trip. I don`t know where you`re getting a routine trip.
This is a routine jog. Everybody knew basically what time she went. She went the same time every day. She went the same route every day. That was
the only predictable thing. And that out of all 365 days of the year, this is when the father arranged to be away. That`s what I know.
ODOM: But there`s nothing out of the ordinary about this trip whatsoever, Nancy. And that`s what I mean when I say it`s routine.
GRACE: OK. And your point is?
ODOM: My point is that let`s not point fingers at someone...
GRACE: Nobody is pointing...
ODOM: ... when there`s no evidence to connect them.
GRACE: ... fingers! Nobody -- I`ve already just said he`s not a suspect. That`s the first thing I said. He`s not a suspect. He`s not a
target. He has not been named a person of interest.
ODOM: So right now, this is merely a coincidence. Terrible luck on his part that he was away.
GRACE: Shireen Hormozdi, weigh in.
SHIREEN HORMOZDI, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: If the daughter says that Daddy was with her the whole time on this trip, then I think the father`s clearly
not a suspect.
GRACE: OK, OK...
HORMOZDI: He was gone for a while...
GRACE: ... maybe there is a problem with you two and your IFBs because at the outset, we said Daddy has a rock-solid alibi. That`s the
very first thing I said.
For those of you just joining us, a young mom goes missing on her morning jog. She is found dead on the side of the road. At first, people
speculate it`s a hit-and-run. It`s not. Mommy`s body found riddled with bullets on her routine jog. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rebekah Bletsch likely left for a walk or jog from her home here in the 5100 block of Automobile Road. She was found along
the same road less than one mile south of her home. Police believed the fatal injury to her head was the result of a hit-and-run. Then Muskegon
County Sheriff Dean Rossler (ph) says a deputy found evidence of another crime, at least two bullet casings from a small-caliber gun. Bletsch`s
death could have been what the sheriff calls a random crime of opportunity. But police don`t know why. And they don`t believe she was robbed because
she was found with items a thief likely would have stolen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rebekah Bletsch likely left her home for a walk or a jog on the 5100 block of Automobile Road.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thought at first to be the victim of a hit-and- run, but then found to have a gunshot wound to the head.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It doesn`t look like it was a robbery. There were some valuables in her possession.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators are checking Bletsch`s cell phone in hopes of finding anyone she may have had contact with before she was shot.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just hope and pray that they get them, whoever did it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back, everyone. Mommy`s jog turns deadly. Take a look at this young mom, Rebekah Bletsch. She`s going on her routine jog
she does every single day, same route. She is found dead in a ditch on the side of the road, her body riddled with bullets. We are just learning that
Mommy has items on her person left behind. This was no robbery.
To Undersheriff Dan Stout, joining me from Muskegon. Sheriff Stout, what was found on her body? Can you answer that?
STOUT: Well, for one thing, (INAUDIBLE) an expensive wedding ring was on her finger. And then also, her phone was found at the scene there, too,
and an iPad. And it was hooked onto her arm there.
GRACE: Oh, she had one of those arm -- James Gemmell, WJRW, she had things hooked on her arm, the things joggers use so their hands are free?
GEMMELL: Well, yes. And I find it interesting that, you know, if she had headphones on, did she hear somebody potentially coming up behind her,
as well? And also, the police went back out -- they recanvassed that area, cut down weeds and everything else, looking for more evidence. And it`ll
be very interesting to find out exactly what the toxicology and autopsy results reveal.
GRACE: Speaking of the items on her, she had rings -- a very expensive wedding ring -- cell phone, iPad. And you were saying, Sheriff
Stout, she was wearing them on one of those arm slings?
STOUT: They were found at the scene. It looked like they were either placed or fell off her arm. So they were found at the scene.
GRACE: Question, Sheriff. Whether it`s one or multiple gunshot wounds to the body, was the bullet recovered?
STOUT: That will be with the autopsy report. We are not releasing the autopsy report at this time. In fact, it will not be complete for
weeks.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Everyone, Mommy found dead on her routine jog. Tonight, we are receiving breaking news in the story regarding her body -- rings, cell
phone, iPad on the body. At first, neighbors find the body in a ditch, think she`s a victim of hit-and-run. She is not. Her body riddled with
bullets.
Now, according to Undersheriff Dan Stout, he doesn`t know yet whether there`s a bullet in the body, still in the body, or recovered at the scene
yet. Now, what I`m taking from what he said is they did not recover a bullet at the scene because he says we`re going to have to wait until the
autopsy`s completed. That means if there`s a bullet, it`s going to be in her body, lodged in her body.
Now, what is significant about that? To Dr. Bill Manion, medical examiner and forensic pathologist joining us tonight out of Philly. Dr.
Manion, you`ve done thousands of autopsies. If you find the bullet in the body, even if it`s grossly deformed because of the force of impact --
whether it hits internal organs or bone can drastically change the appearance of a bullet -- you can still get bullet markings off it. You
can possibly match it to the type of weapon. You can`t match it like a fingerprint to a particular weapon, but you know the type of weapon, right?
DR. BILL MANION, MEDICAL EXAMINER, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST (via telephone): That`s correct. And when we first -- when we`re going to
search for a bullet, we`ll do an X-ray of the body first so we can see where it is located as we dissect into the tissue. We don`t want to use a
scalpel because that scalpel blade will make another scratch on the bullet. So we want to get the bullet out as clean and pristine as possible.
GRACE: Now, what can you tell from the bullet itself, Dr. Manion?
MANION: Well, the ballistics experts can oftentimes match it to a gun. If they`ve recovered shell casings, that`ll have an impression on it.
But I`m not a ballistics person, but those are the basic things.
GRACE: How do you go about getting the bullet -- which would mean it did not have an exit wound. That means there`s only an entrance wound in
the body, let`s just say in the head. So you`ll have an exit wound and know (ph) an entry wound and no exit wound. How delicate is the procedure
of, say, removing a bullet fragment or a bullet from the body? And how does the body deform the bullet upon impact?
MANION: Well, depending on the kind of metal. If it`s copper, that can be very deformed if it strikes bone, as you mentioned. And as I said,
we want to get all the fragments out. We don`t want to scratch the surface of the bullet, and just turn it over to the ballistics men and let them do
their job, or ballistics women -- let them do their job and figure out where it came from, what kind of gun and make.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. And I want to thank you for being with us.
And now to Florida, a young mother rushes her baby to the hospital. It`s in a long line of a recent string of hospital visits because the
little baby girl can`t stop vomiting blood. But little did mommy know that the Florida Children`s Hospital is outfitted with baby monitoring equipment
so a few hours later when mommy is nursing the baby girl, mommy`s busted, caught on camera squeezing and suffocating her little girl so tightly the
tiny baby turns blue.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: A live camera show the baby`s mother Brenna Winter standing next to the crib with her hands in the crib.
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Three month old child (audio gap) physically injured by her mother.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Nurses rushed in to save her life not once but twice in the same day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Mark Starling with WDBO, an anchor with the network. Mark, shocking that it happened, the baby actually turns blue.
As mommy suffocates the little girl. But is caught on baby monitoring equipment. What monitoring equipment is that?
MARK STARLING, WDBO NEWS ANCHOR: Well, Nancy they have monitoring equipments, they are in the NICU unit there at Nemours Hospital and it was
when that heart monitor alarm started to go off, that`s when nurses were alerted and these cameras are real time cameras. And they looked up and
what did see but Brenna Winter trying to smother that baby while it was still in the crib.
GRACE: So there actually kind of a closed-circuit TV monitoring device like a nanny-cam or something?
STARLING: Yes. Correct. Correct.
GRACE: Got it.
STARLING: And there was two incident when this happened. You know, the first one was when the alarm went off and they saw her trying to
smother the child in the crib. And then at some point in time, she was given the child back for a feeding and that`s when she was quoted saying
that she was squeezing the child so hard and she was trying to kill it. All this in an effort for attention.
GRACE: OK. Wait, wait, wait. You just told me something I didn`t know. You mean the nurses caught her trying to smother the baby in the
crib and then they let her be alone with the baby again?
STARLING: Well, that`s the way that we`re understanding it at this point is that --
GRACE: What?
STARLING: After the alarm went off and after that baby was taken from the crib, then there was another incident when she was feeding the child
and she was squeezing this child so hard that the child actually turned blue. That`s when DCF investigators got involved.
GRACE: OK. Mark Starling, anchor at WBDO, let me understand this. So, an alarm goes off -- we had those alarms on our cribs. And they never
went off. It was like a little pad under the crib, like a little cushion. Very thin. And it could detect if the child would quit breathing or quite
the heartbeat, I can`t remember which one it was now. This thing you just slipped under the sheet or you put it right under the baby, and it will
set-off an alarm. And that guy -- was working on it because it never went off.
STARLING: Right.
GRACE: You`re saying some sort of an alarm went off, I`m guessing the heartbeat of the baby and did the nurses look up to the closed circuit
camera and there`s mommy squeezing the baby, suffocating the baby, do I have that right?
STARLING: That`s correct. That`s correct.
GRACE: Oh, dear lord in heaven. OK, unleash the lawyers. Shireen Hormozdi, Peter Odom. OK. You know, what, I recall when I prosecuted for
all those years. You would hear the defense trial. What? You saw it on video. You can`t prove this happen. So now, Shireen, it is caught on
video. So what`s your defense?
SHIREEN HORMOZDI, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: This is a classic case of Munchausen by proxy. And if the defense can show that this condition
custard and now the consequences of her actions in seeking attention, then there`s an insanity defense right there.
GRACE: Whoa. Peter Odom, let`s just take a quick little tutorial on the insanity defense.
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That wouldn`t be my defense.
GRACE: The insanity defense is not, you don`t know the consequences. That`s delusion. The insanity defense is you don`t know right from wrong
at the time of the incident.
ODOM: It can be either one, Nancy.
GRACE: Munchausen by proxy --
ODOM: It can be either one.
GRACE: Yes. I said consequences goes to delusion. Hold on. But let me get to another thing. Munchausen by proxy is not insanity.
HORMOZDI: It`s a mental condition that can cause her to not know the difference between right and wrong. It`s a mental condition.
GRACE: It is a mental condition. But it`s never been able -- that`s like being bipolar or some other mental defect. It does not go to
insanity. Wait a minute. I`ve got two experts on this.
Number one, Dr. Lolly McDavid joining me now from Cleveland and Karen Stark, psychotherapist. Let`s go to these two doctors. First of all to
Dr. Lolly McDavid, let`s see both of our lady doctors on screen, please.
Dr. McDavid, thank you so much for being with us. I understand that you have schooled us on a new term for Munchausen by proxy.
DR. LOLITA MCDAVID, MD, MEDICAL DIRECTOR, CHILD ADVOCACY AND PROTECTION: Right. That`s not the term anymore. The term is now
Factitious Illness by proxy or Factitious Disorder by proxy but not Munchausen.
GRACE: OK. Factitious Illness by proxy or -- what was the other one?
MCDAVID: Factitious Disorder by proxy.
GRACE: Disorder by proxy. OK. Now, that would relate to the child because the child`s the one with the Factitious Disorder, correct?
MCDAVID: Right. And the parent, it`s medical child abuse.
GRACE: Oh, OK. You know, what`s interesting about this, and I don`t to get too vernacular, Dr. Lolita McDavid, but medical child abuse to me
leaves out the psychological component of the mother -- typically the mother`s medical condition, her desire for attention. Because I guess you
could make a child sick until it dies from medicine and you`re not trying to get attention. So medical child abuse to me leaves out that
psychological component where you`re doing this to get attention to yourself. But you know what? I think I`m splitting hairs now. I don`t
think that`s relevant to this. What do you make of this scenario, Dr. McDavid?
MCDAVID: Well, she`s a little different in that she immediately says that she`s doing it to get attention. When we have these kinds of cases in
our hospital, it takes us a little while to figure out what`s going on. Now, we also have those kinds of cameras in our NICU. So I understand what
they saw. That`s not usually the case. Usually the case is, it`s an older child. They`re in a room. The parent may come running out of the room
saying that the baby stopped breathing. The child`s on a monitor, we all rush in.
And it happens several times. The parent is doing it because they get gratification for being what a wonderful parent they are, you know, that
they`re very concerned about their child, that they`re there all the time and those are also the things that make us concerned when we see those
kinds of things when we can`t see a real medical reason for the extent of the symptoms.
GRACE: Right. OK. Caryn Stark, I think I comprehended what Dr. Lolita McDavid just said, that this case is different for a number of
reasons. But answering on a legal level, not a level that Dr. McDavid is talking on a medical level, on a psychological level, Caryn Stark, a rose
by any other name is still a rose. So whether she says immediately, I did it for attention, do I care as a prosecutor? Why she did it? Because all
I have going on in my head is she`s suffocating the baby, the baby turns blue and the nurses rush in. That`s what I`m hearing. OK? I`m not at the
medical level that Dr. McDavid is at. So psychologically, break it down for me, Caryn.
CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: Psychologically I know what you`re interested in, Nancy, which is, does she know the difference between right
and wrong? And she does. It also makes me wonder how much she`s been exposed to hearing about Munchausen because people love to talk about it.
And people still refer to it as Munchausen. And so she seems to know that she did it by attention. Maybe she learned that. To get attention. But
it doesn`t matter. In the end, she is abusing her baby. And why she`s doing it doesn`t matter as much as does she know that she`s doing it? She
does. Does she know not to do it? She does but she does it anyway.
GRACE: OK. As both of you educated ladies are aware, with me, Dr. Lolly McDavid joining us from Cleveland, Ohio. She`s been medical director
of Child Advocacy and Protection Rainbow Babies and Children`s Hospital. Also with me, Dr. Caryn Stark. This is not the first time that this type
of behavior, this evil behavior has gone down take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Alexis Felton, she was caught on camera choking her 11-month-old baby six times while it sat in her crib in a hospital. Kathy
Bush, mom accused of intentionally making child sick forcing her to undergo 40 needless surgeries.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Only four days after being rushed to the emergency room with agonizing abdominal pain, a five-year-old boy dies.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Are you Lacey Spears?
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Investigators say the 26-year-old poisoned her son with sodium.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Gigi Jordan accused of overdosing autistic eight- year-old son with pills, prosecutors say she was diagnosed with Munchausen by proxy for medical abuse of boy. Tonya Thomas allegedly subjected her
young daughter to multiple unnecessary medical procedures including a spinal tap, blood screenings and ultrasound.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: You need to calm down.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: She`s losing oxygen.
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: I`m her mother. I`m going with her.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Clear?
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: She cannot die. She has to live.
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: I`ve already lost one child. I can`t go through this again.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Bob Keller from Social Services. We have an order of protection for Hillary Jordan. We need to remove her from the premises.
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: What did you do to her?
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: What are you suggesting?
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Please, I`m her mother!
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Cheryl is slowly poisoning your children.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Oh, my God.
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: I`m the best mother you ever had!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That chilling video is from YouTube of the lifetime movie "The Good Mother." Thank you for being with us, everybody. We are talking
about a Florida mom who`s caught on the nurse`s camera as she smothers her baby girl, her infant girl, until she`s blue. The little baby girl there
in the hospital, just three months old.
And Michael Christian, we were talking earlier with Mark Starling, the fact that we believe she had tried to suffocate the baby in the crib the
first time. And I was initially stunned that the nurses would let her be alone with the baby. But that`s -- I didn`t have it exactly right. Tell
me exactly what happened.
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: My understanding, Nancy, is that the vital sign monitor went off and the nurses immediately looked at
the camera. They could see that the mother had her hands inside the baby`s crib. But they couldn`t exactly see what the hands were doing. They
immediately went to the room, they checked the child out. She seemed to be okay. So the mother was allowed to continue to be in the room with the
child for a few more hours until the nursing incident when somebody actually saw her holding --
GRACE: Look at this baby! Look at this little baby. I`m just stunned. Look at this little thing. You know, I want to take her home.
And then you`ve got this mom suffocating this baby caught on nurse`s camera when the baby`s monitor goes off. We are taking your calls. Out to Lisa.
Hi, Lisa, what`s your question?
LISA FROM CANADA (on the phone): Hi, Nancy. Quickly I want to say, I`ve been watching you 10 or 11 years. And your show is just as good as it
was back then.
GRACE: Thank you. Thank you a lot.
LISA: You`re welcome. What I`d like to say please, is if this is truly a loving mother, why does she do this to her baby?
GRACE: Take a look at this little tiny baby. This is the baby that nurses found mommy`s hands around her throat trying to make it appear that
she was nursing the baby, but instead she was killing the baby. The baby`s face blue by the time nurses could race into the room. That`s a good
question.
I want to go to Caryn Stark, also to Dr. Lolly McDavid joining us out of Cleveland. You know, Dr. Mcdavid, it`s just almost predictable. We
think that mothers love their babies. An overwhelming love -- I`ve never known anything like it, the love I have for my children and the love my mom
has for me and vice versa. But that`s not always true. That is not innate. Not everybody is born with that. Is that your observation, Dr.
McDavid?
MCDAVID: We parent the way we were parented. And what we know in these cases is many of them have had physical or sexual abuse as children
themselves. So they`re looking for some kind of affirmation and they really don`t know how to be a good parent. But probably as many cases as
there are, there are many stories behind them. This is an 18-year-old. Remember this. She`s 18-years-old. She probably had some fantasy about
having a baby and how wonderful it was going to be and everyone was going to flock around her. Who knows where the baby`s father is?
GRACE: Right.
MCDAVID: He`s fallen away. She may not have any supports. And parenthood is not easy.
GRACE: Well, I hear all that Dr. McDavid. But I guess I look at it in a more cut-and-dried manner because to me, this is one of the worst
felonies, this horrible act on a child.
Caryn Stark, I hear what Dr. McDavid is saying. It`s registering. But to me, all of that and my assessment of what happened is irrelevant
because this loving -- this feeling of loving your baby, I don`t think every woman is born with that.
STARK: They`re not. And we make that assumption, Nancy, but it isn`t true. As a matter of fact, many of the cases that you see that you cover
have to do with mothers who don`t know how to love. This is -- the reason it`s facetious is because the mother doesn`t know sometimes the difference
between what`s real and what`s not, what`s a lie and what`s the truth. You can`t trust the mother and she`s used to getting this kind of attention.
Maybe her own mother did this to her. But she`s looking to get attention for her. It has nothing to do with the baby, caring for the baby or loving
the baby unfortunately.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. It is summertime and all across the country, children are out of school and they are cannon balling into
swimming pools. Tonight we go live to North Miami. A seven-year-old little boy jumps into the pool, electrocuted dead. Why?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED BOY: It`s blue sticky stuff that goes in your hair and makes your hair blue.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: He had his whole life ahead of him.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Chris Sloane lost his oldest son who called Mr. Awesome in an accident as unbelievable as it is tragic.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Pat LaLama, a correspondent Investigation Discovery. He jumps into a pool and is electrocuted dead? What happened?
PAT LALAMA, INVESTIGATION DISCOVERY CORRESPONDENT: First and last dive for this precious little boy of the summer. What they believe
happened is that there was a faulty light inside of the pool. But also additionally, there was faulty grounding. That`s the deadly combination
that sends the heinous current through the pool and into the little boy`s body and now there`s lots of defendants in a major lawsuit.
GRACE: Who was watching the baby?
LALAMA: The nanny was watching. This is just a wonderful young boy, familiar with the water, excited about his first swim of the year. Not her
fault at all. This is definitely, according to the lawsuit, every possible mistake from maintenance, inspection, contracting design, at least that`s
who are named in this lawsuit as people who will have to pay the price for the loss of this little boy.
With me is Alison Osinski, aquatic consultant. And owner of Aquatic Consulting Services. Alison, thank you for being with us. I don`t
understand what went wrong because other people were in the pool and they were not electrocuted dead.
ALISON OSINSKI, AQUATIC CONSULTANT: Right. It doesn`t happen all of the time. Water and electricity just don`t mix. And the electricity is
going to seek the path of less resistance. And if there`s no electrical current leakage, and if the electrical safeguards are ignored, as they were
in this case, electricity can float through a person on its way to ground. It can cause a jolt, it can burn tissue, it can disrupt heart signals, it
can cause you to fall. But if you get about a third of an amp or more passing through you, it can kill a person.
GRACE: Everybody, you`re seeing beautiful video of seven-year-old Calder Sloane. He jumps into a pool, electrocuted dead.
Justin Freiman, What exactly happened? Wasn`t there a little impulse first that other people felt? There was a vibration in the water and like
the nanny`s boyfriend got out of the water. The boy was still in the water? Where did this come from, Justin?
JUSTIN FREIMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Nancy, what happened was somebody else in the pool did feel some electricity. They were yelling at
the child to get up but the child was underwater and could not hear the warning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: It`s a simple self portrait down by a bright energetic seven-year-old.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Chris Sloane lost his oldest son who he called Mr. Awesome in an accident as unbelievable as it is tragic.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Electrocuted by an incorrectly wired --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK. Back to you Pat Lalama and Justin Freiman. First, Pat, I don`t quite understand what -- one of those underwater lights that was
loose? What was it?
LALAMA: Well, there`s a question about the amount of voltage that was in this light, too. If it over heats apparently, and this is what I`m
reading in the case involving the civil suit, that if it overheat, it should been a kill switch or should have been a way to keep that
overheating from penetrating. Then you add to that improper grounding. And the family even says, there`s evidence of a contractor who came out
recently and they even apparently have him on videotape who`s talking about hey, there`s loose wires here. So, there`s all kinds of problems, not just
the light, Nancy. Over all it looks like this was an abomination in terms of putting this pool together safely and properly.
GRACE: Everyone, let`s stop and remember American hero army Colonel John McHugh, 46, Newark, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart, two bronze stars, a
West Point grad who loved soccer and baseball. Parents James and Mary, sisters Mary Kate, brothers James and Frank, widow Connie. Three sons, two
daughters, one grandchild. John McHugh, American hero.
Everyone, again, thank you for being with us. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.
END
