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Nancy Grace
Doctor Took Selfie With Rivers?
Aired September 17, 2014 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. World famous comedienne Joan Rivers dead. When Rivers`s throat surgery goes all wrong, she goes
into cardiac arrest. Then she`s put in an induced coma in the hopes she will recover.
As the Yorkville Endoscopy clinic under investigation, bombshell tonight. Joan Rivers did not have to die. In the last hours, shocking
details emerge that the doctor who decides to perform a biopsy on Rivers`s throat stops in the operating room to snap a selfie! Yes, the doctor snaps
a selfie with comedian Joan Rivers as she lays there unconscious, knocked out cold! How dare they!
Just moments after the doctor`s selfie is snapped, Joan Rivers goes into cardiac arrest.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Rivers went into cardiac and respiratory arrest. The clinic is now the focus of an investigation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Should this procedure have been done in a hospital instead of an outpatient setting?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And then did a doctor really take a selfie during the surgery that led up to Joan Rivers`s death?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, from throwing punches to throwing helmets, NASCAR superstar Tony Stewart has a reputation for rage, allegations of plowing
down pit crew members, threats to run competitors off the track, claims he shoves drivers in anger, even throwing his helmet at a car. Well, it all
blows wide open when Stewart kills fellow driver Kevin Ward, Jr., on the racetrack in front of thousands. It`s all caught on YouTube.
Breaking news now. As we go to air, we learn a secret grand jury set to meet on whether NASCAR champ Tony Stewart will be indicted with
homicide.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tragedy on the race track, 20-year-old race car driver Kevin Ward, Jr., killed after he steps out of his car and onto the
track, hit by one of the sport`s greatest drivers, Tony Stewart, three-time NASCAR champion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tonight, another stunning road rage-fueled incident caught on tape. Tonight, Mom`s road rage with her child in the car.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This video has hundreds of thousands of views on the Web.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You cut me off (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don`t touch me!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re the one who (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An alleged road rage incident just caught on camera.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. World famous comedian Joan Rivers dead when Rivers`s throat surgery goes all wrong. She goes into cardiac arrest.
She`s put in a medically induced coma in the hope that she will recover. As the Yorkville Endoscopy clinic is under investigation, Joan Rivers did
not have to die.
Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, shocking details emerge that the doctor, who decides to perform a biopsy on Rivers`s throat, stops in
the OR -- the doctor stops in the operating room so they can snap a selfie with Joan Rivers as she is lying there on the gurney unconscious, knocked
out cold. How dare they!
Just moments after the doctor`s selfie is snapped, Joan Rivers goes into cardiac arrest. Now, think about it, everybody. We have heard
reports that Joan Rivers is on propofol, the very same drug used when Michael Jackson died. So it`s very common to use propofol. They are used
for that type of GI series, endoscopies, for colonoscopies.
Can you imagine, Joan Rivers is lying there knocked out cold with this thing down her throat, and the doctor leans over and snaps a selfie with
Joan Rivers as she lay there unconscious? Just moments after that, the beloved icon goes into cardiac arrest?
I am beside myself, Alan Duke, CNN digital reporter. I can`t believe the gall of the doctor to snap a selfie as she is laying there unconscious!
If I had known that -- I was sitting in her funeral, and all these stars and all these important people were there, and I was listening to them talk
about Joan Rivers and how wonderful she was, which was all true. To think that she`s laying there, knocked out cold, with (ph) this doctor snaps a
selfie?
ALAN DUKE, CNN DIGITAL REPORTER: Yes. Even -- even Dr. Conrad Murray, I don`t think, ever snapped a selfie while he had Michael Jackson
under propofol. At least none has ever emerged.
So this does go beyond. It is shocking, and it is only one of several things that we`ve learned about how Joan Rivers died or shouldn`t have
died. This was a doctor who was her personal ENT who went to the appointment with her at this Manhattan clinic who was just supposed to
observe, yet she jumped into action and did a biopsy that, apparently, our sources close to the investigation say Joan Rivers did not give consent to.
GRACE: OK. Hold on! Hold on! Alan Duke, CNN digital reporter, so what she had said leading up to that fateful morning was she had had a very
raspy voice, and it was bothering her. And they were just going to do an endoscopy, which is -- out to you, Dr. William Morrone, medical examiner.
An endoscopy should be a very simple procedure, should it not?
DR. WILLIAM MORRONE, MEDICAL EXAMINER, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST Yes, they take a camera at the end of a tube that`s very flexible, and they go down
the throat. And the camera shows them what everything looks like on the inside -- very light sedation, nothing complicated. But she was a little
bit older, and they took things out of the original plan, which is very dangerous.
GRACE: Dr. Morrone, hold on just a moment. We`re talking about a tube. Now, when you say they go down with a camera -- it`s not like a
camera that -- a big camera. It`s microscopic. The tube is very, very small. I mean, you can actually, when you`re half-sedated, swallow down
the tube. Sometimes, they get you to kind of swallow it a little. There you go. Let`s see. Show me the circumference of that tube. OK, there you
go.
MORRONE: OK. This is probably a little bit bigger than a pretzel, and it`s flexible. And it starts up here, and it goes through and goes
down, and it`s curved to take the shape of the throat. Now, in this case, it`s...
GRACE: And the camera is inside that. The camera is no bigger than that. It`s inside the tube. It`s a microscopic little camera. OK, go
ahead.
MORRONE: It`s on the end. And it`s fiberoptic, so it flexes, too. And all around the lens of the camera are fiberoptic light-emitting diodes,
so it`s well illuminated and they can see in there, and that`s about how big it is.
GRACE: So out of the blue, Dr. Morrone, this doctor decides they`re going to do a biopsy on 81-year-old Joan Rivers that I don`t think that she
had bargained for that. And I`m also hearing -- hold on.
Back to Alan Duke, and Jan Hager (ph) joining me, managing editor of Radaronline.com. Jan, is it true that the doctor who performed all this
was not certified to perform this at that clinic?
JAN HAGER, RADARONLINE.COM: That is absolutely correct, Nancy. The doctor, the ear, nose and throat doctor, was not authorized to perform this
procedure at the Yorkville Endoscopy clinic, which is going to be a big problem for the clinic, the doctor going forward because under New York
law, it is required that the physician be licensed to practice at that facility.
So not only do we have Joan Rivers who didn`t consent to have the biopsy, but the ear, nose and throat doctor never -- wasn`t even licensed
to perform there at the clinic!
GRACE: Everybody, now there is talk that Melissa Rivers may file a lawsuit. And you know what? Everybody is always so careful to say, Oh,
she`s not doing it for the money. You know what? It doesn`t matter. I`d be mad if she didn`t file a lawsuit. This place needs to put out of
business! And like Conrad Murray, I absolutely believe that with this doctor snapping a selfie with her unconscious there on the table, that this
needs to be a criminal charge on that doctor!
Now, talking about the money, Melissa Rivers says this is so it won`t happen again. But Joan Rivers worked her entire life to amass a fortune to
leave to her daughter, Melissa, and her grandson, Cooper. She worked like a dog, catching a show -- performing a show, at, say, 10:00 o`clock at
night in Wisconsin, catching a plane back, getting back to New York at 3:00 AM, bright and early up the next morning to work some more. This woman was
a machine.
Take a look at her home.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOAN RIVERS, COMEDIAN: It`s spanking (ph), you idiot.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nobody lives like this. (INAUDIBLE) queen of England.
RIVERS: This is how Marie Antoinette would have lived if she had (INAUDIBLE) and here I am. I mean, everything is just -- everywhere you
look, there are jokes (INAUDIBLE) jokes to be filed, jokes to be written, jokes that I thought of something. I mean, my life is just jokes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That is from IFC Films, I watched a documentary, called "A Piece of Work." It shows her life-long struggle to make it. She never let
up.
Back to Alan Duke, CNN Digital reporter. I want to get back to -- whoa! That is some crib! I want to get back, Alan, to why this doctor
thought it was OK to take a picture of themselves with Joan Rivers as she`s knocked out cold on propofol.
DUKE: It`s shocking. Why would she want to? She could take a picture with Joan Rivers anytime she wanted to. We understand it was her
personal ear, nose and throat doctor. She was something of a doctor with a lot of celebrity patients, so why did she think that this was the moment to
do it? That is a tremendous odd judgment for me. Perhaps it wasn`t as deadly as the judgment of going and doing an unplanned biopsy, though.
GRACE: Michael Christian, what do we know about the timeline?
Everyone, for those of you just joining us, Joan Rivers absolutely could have been saved. She did not have to die! And tonight, the stunning
details that are emerging inside that Yorkville Endoscopy clinic.
Michael, what`s the timeline? What have we learned?
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Nancy, the first call came in to 911 at 9:40 in the morning. Now, within five
minutes, a New York Fire Department engine company arrived on the scene at Yorkville Endoscopy. And that included trained medical responders. They
said that when they got there, clinic staff...
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa! Wait a minute! Wait a minute! Yorkville Endoscopy calls, and within five minutes, the fire department`s there,
right?
CHRISTIAN: With trained medical responders, yes.
GRACE: OK. So they rush in. What do they see when they get inside Yorkville Endoscopy?
CHRISTIAN: It`s been reported clinic staff members were already trying to save Rivers. A defibrillator had been hooked up to her and a
breathing tube had been place in her windpipe. She was also receiving medications and CPR at that point.
GRACE: But here`s the thing. Here`s the thing, Alan Duke. How many minutes pass before this doctor even realized she`s not breathing? They`re
too busy taking a frickin` selfie with Joan Rivers knocked out cold! I mean, how long did she go without breathing, without oxygen getting to her
brain, before they even decided to start resuscitation?
CHRISTIAN: Well, it may not have been very long at all. I might point out that the selfie -- apparently -- we don`t know when it was taken,
but it could have been taken before the biopsy. And one would have to assume that it was, while she was still under anesthesia, not while the
doctor was performing a surgery...
GRACE: Well, yes...
DUKE: ... a biopsy.
GRACE: ... it`s my understanding...
DUKE: It would be hard to hold the camera and do that.
GRACE: ... it`s right before.
DUKE: Yes, well...
GRACE: I thought it was right before the procedure. She`s knocked out, and right before the procedure, the doctor takes a selfie. And just
moments after that, the cardiac arrest occurs is my understanding of the timeline.
CHRISTIAN: We don`t know exactly how many minutes it was, but I can tell you that in these -- the clinic has assured us they had all the
monitoring and all the staffing in place to know when she became in distress. Now, once you become in distress, you should be able to do
something about it, but this was -- apparently spun out of control.
GRACE: OK, let`s go back to that. Michael Christian, you say that they immediately started defib. All right, Dr. Morrone, defib -- explain.
MORRONE: The heart is a muscular bag that has contractions that are synchronized. When the heart stops being synchronized, instead of orderly
contractions, it shakes, and there`s no pumping action. There`s no blood flow out of the heart to the brain, to the lungs, to the rest of the body.
The heart just shakes. That`s defibrillation.
GRACE: So when you get, say, atrial defib, what, you zap the body?
CHRISTIAN: There`s a protocol that you monitor the EKGs and you -- that`s when everybody stands around the table and somebody places the
electrodes, and they say, "Clear" and...
GRACE: (INAUDIBLE) yes.
MORRONE: ... that means nobody is close. Those pads have to be directly on the chest. And there`s a lubricant that conducts electricity.
And there`s different settings for the electricity, and you go through a protocol of increasing settings for electricity. And it`s to shock the
heart -- bam! -- electrically.
GRACE: The other night, we reported a story about an alleged child sex predator, 53-year-old Timothy Wind, who travels cross-country, accused
of kidnap and sex assault on a little girl he meets on line, initially making contact with her on Disney`s Pixie Hollow Web site, police say.
They did not communicate on that site for two years. The site was shut down September 2013. Police still investigated when and how long they
communicated on that site. When it was operating, Pixie Hollow had chat filter technology that prevented exchanging e-mail, phone, address or full
names over chat.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Joan Rivers`s personal doctor is accused of taking a selfie just before she went into cardiac arrest.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An intense spotlight on what transpired at Yorkville Endoscopy.
RIVERS: Very serious!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They`ll look at the clinic`s staffing, life- saving protocols, and which drugs may have been given.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bagpipe salute for the original queen of comedy...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Yes, it was a beautiful funeral, I can tell you that much. But I`m sure Joan Rivers wished she had been there.
Tonight, we learn Joan Rivers did not have to die. And to add insult to injury, we learn that the doctor who performed this procedure, the
doctor there in the OR, snaps a selfie with Joan Rivers. Moments later, she goes into cardiac arrest.
Back to Michael Christian. We were going through the timeline. So they performed the procedure. I don`t think Joan Rivers even knew she was
going to have a biopsy. Nobody bothered to mention that. It`s our understanding tonight that it was not planned. So she goes in for
exploratory endoscopy, to find out why her throat is so rough. And she goes -- they notice at some point that she goes into cardiac arrest. They
call. The fire department gets there first.
Then what happens, Michael Christian?
CHRISTIAN: That`s right, Nancy. The fire department got there at 9:45. Two minutes later, at 9:47, paramedics and an ambulance from Mount
Sinai hospital arrived, and they also began to work on Rivers. And remember, Mount Sinai hospital is where she eventually was taken.
Then one minute after that, at 9:48, an additional fire department unit, extra EMTs arrive in a separate ambulance. So by 9:50, which was 10
minutes after the 911 call originally went in, there were a total of 10 emergency medical workers on the scene, including a fire department
supervisor.
GRACE: Everyone, Joan Rivers goes into cardiac arrest after the doctor there in the operating room, the procedure room at Yorkville
Endoscopy, snaps a selfie. Can you even imagine?
Unleash the lawyers, Jeff Gold, New York, Peter Odom, Atlanta. First of all, to you, Jeff Gold. Now, I`m sure you`re going to say snapping the
selfie had nothing to do with the cardiac arrest. You know what? I`d like to see you tell that to a jury with a straight face.
JEFF GOLD, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, I would (ph) tell it to a jury with a straight face. The problem here is no consent. He committed an assault
and battery and may have killed her. It could be homicide. But the selfie is irrelevant. I`m going to say it!
GRACE: Really? I disagree with you. And Peter Odom, I may be able to convince you why. Just like a similar transaction, when a criminal has
a similar act in the past, comes in in front of the jury in the case in chief, that goes to conduct, course of action, frame of mind. And the fact
that this doctor is thinking about taking a selfie with icon Joan Rivers instead of focusing on the surgery I think is extremely bizarre.
I mean, Peter, you two, all three of us have tried a ton of cases. Can you imagine, in the middle of your closing argument in a homicide case,
Peter Odom, going, Oops? No, because you`re busy.
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy...
GRACE: Your mind is where it should be, on your trial, as this doctor`s mind should have been on Joan Rivers, not their own grandiosity!
ODOM: Nancy...
GRACE: What?
ODOM: ... remember that -- put it in context. Joan Rivers was in there for a minor procedure, what was supposed to have been a minor
procedure.
GRACE: Yes?
ODOM: Also, this was Joan Rivers`s regular doctor...
GRACE: Yes?
ODOM: ... her regular throat doctor. This may have fit very well into their own relationship, and had Joan Rivers...
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa! Wait! Wait! Wait!
ODOM: You don`t know that Joan Rivers...
GRACE: No! No!
ODOM: ... would have been...
GRACE: Hold on!
ODOM: ... offended by this.
GRACE: Hold on! Hold on!
ODOM: You don`t know that. That`s complete speculation.
GRACE: I know this. I know that this is a woman who has devoted herself not only to comedy and her family, but if you had seen her or if
you knew her, as many of us did, devoted herself to trying to stay relevant in an industry that was focused on youth, all right, focused on appearance.
There is no way in hell she would have wanted a picture out there of herself lying unconscious without -- you know for surgery...
ODOM: But Nancy...
GRACE: Wait a minute! You can have no makeup, no jewelry, no nothing. You really think -- and don`t lie, Peter!
ODOM: Nancy, that is so unfair.
GRACE: (INAUDIBLE) if you really think...
ODOM: You don`t even...
GRACE: ... that it would be OK with her to have her picture taken...
ODOM: How do you know that the doctor...
GRACE: ... with a tube down her throat!
ODOM: How do you know the doctor was taking it to put it out there?
GRACE: OK...
ODOM: There`s no evidence of that. That`s pure speculation.
GRACE: ... Caryn Stark, why am I hearing this?
CARYN STARK, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: I don`t know, Nancy. It just seems to me that it doesn`t make a lot of sense, that the doctor really
should be concentrating on the fact that he`s -- that he or she is taking care of her. In addition to which, what about her privacy? That`s just --
it`s -- it`s...
GRACE: I mean, really, Caryn...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... believe that the defense is arguing she wanted a photo taken of her laid out with no makeup, unconscious...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... operating table? She wanted the photo taken? You know what? That`s how lawyers lose respect, when they say things like that.
This is a woman that devoted herself to comedy, to her fans, to her family, to staying relevant in the comedy industry, so very, very difficult in
comedy that`s predominantly ruled by men.
Here`s video of her from YouTube and QVC making a living for her family. And take a listen. Her throat is raspy even here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RIVERS: And this is mine, the gardenia. I just think it`s the most beautiful, beautiful flower. And it`s a scent known forever, and I wish
you could have that scent around you because gardenias smell so great.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It smells beautiful.
RIVERS: So -- and it`s also just a damn pretty charm bracelet.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And it`s seven-and-a-half inches.
RIVERS: I love that. Look at this!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... you can really adjust this. You can add on more charms. And I love "Do it now."
RIVERS: I love "Do it now" because all of us know you don`t know what happens tomorrow. Do it now. Pick up the phone, call someone and say "I
love you," hang up before they can say, "yes, well, screw you." Hang up.
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know what? Do it now.
RIVERS: Do it now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s all you...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: We learned that a selfie was taken by the doctor with Joan Rivers as she lay unconscious there on the gurney. To Alan Duke, now Dr.
Cohen is the one that was the director of the Yorkville endoscopy clinic. He`s resigned. Now is he, did he allow the other doctor, and everybody,
there`s a photo of Lawrence Cohen, who according to a source close to the investigation performed the endoscopy on Rivers, reportedly present when
Rivers` personal doctor started performing an unauthorized biopsy. Investigators believe Rivers` vocal chords swelled, cutting off oxygen to
her lungs, sending her into cardiac arrest. He is no longer the medical director of Yorkville endoscopy. He is not accused of wrongdoing at this
time. So Alan, he ran Yorkville endoscopy. He what, let the other doctor in? Let the other doctor help? What exactly do we believe happened?
DUKE: Our information is that the other doctor was there, accompanying, observing. She was the ENT for Joan Rivers. She was there
watching as Dr. Cohen, who was scheduled to do the procedure, in fact did that. And that the source close to the investigation tells CNN is that
apparently they saw something, and it was mentioned to the ENT, and the ENT then jumped in and decided to do the biopsy. Totally unscheduled,
spontaneous biopsy in a clinic that says they`ve never done that before.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: From throwing punches to throwing helmets. NASCAR superstar Tony Stewart has a reputation for rage. Well, it all blows wide open when
Stewart kills a fellow driver, Kevin Ward Jr., right here on the race track in front of thousands, all caught on Youtube. Breaking news tonight as we
go to air, we learn a secret grand jury set to meet on whether NASCAR champ Tony Stewart will be charged with homicide.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Famed NASCAR driver Tony Stewart was competing in a dirt track race when fellow drier Kevin Ward Jr., got cut off by Stewart,
forcing him into the wall and spin out. It`s then that Stewart`s car struck and killed Ward Jr.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Brad Gillie, Sirius XM NASCAR radio host. Brad, thank you for being with us. Big, big fan of yours. As we go to
Brad Gillie, and also with me, Jeff Bodine, NASCAR driver. Take a look at what happened, caught on Youtube, the night the driver, Kevin War Jr., just
20 years old, sprint car driver, mowed down on the race track.
Now, you got to see that Kevin Ward Jr. gets out of his car and goes back on foot, onto the track. That is not the end of the story. Brad
Gillie, Sirius XM. Again, thanks for being with us. What do you make of the district attorney`s statement that he is taking this to a secret grand
jury?
GILLIE: Well, I think the district attorney and the sheriff in this whole matter are probably just doing their due diligence, and I think they
owe it to Kevin Ward Jr.`s family, I think they owe it to Tony Stewart, and I think they owe it to the people that vote them into their jobs to make
sure they cover every possible ground here. And I don`t know that the sheriff was ready to make a decision that no charges would be filed. I
don`t know that the district attorney wanted to make that decision that no charges are filed. I think it`s better off to let as many people be a part
of this and bring it to the grand jury. And see where it goes from there. And I think it`s only fair. I think they owe it to the Ward family, Tony
Stewart, and everyone else involved.
GRACE: Interesting, Brad Gillie, your take on it, going to a grand jury. To Justin Freiman, he had, Stewart has quite a history of rage.
What do we know? And it`s all culminated in this.
FREIMAN: That`s right, Nancy. He`s been brought out to the NASCAR trailer quite a few times. He`s thrown a helmet at another driver. He`s
thrown punches at another driver. He`s threatened to throw some drivers off the road, even.
GRACE: He`s thrown helmets, what else?
FREIMAN: He`s thrown punches, he shoved a few drivers, and he also threatened to run a few off the track.
GRACE: OK. To Brad Gillie, what do we know about those incidents?
GILLIE: I think you`re kind of overdramatizing and embellishing this just a little bit. I mean, yes, things have happened on the race track in
the heat of competition in this sport. And this isn`t like a full contact person to person sport like say football. The helmet incident that we keep
seeing over and over and over again happened at Bristol Motor Speedway, where Tony got out of his car, behind the wall, threw his helmet at Matt
Kenseth (ph). Reportedly, inside of a NASCAR trailer at one point Tony Stewart had thrown a punch at another driver, but that was just reported,
that`s not anything that happened out in the public. And there`s a lot of emotion involved in this. This is sport, but to basically paint it in the
picture that it`s being painted in here I think is quite a bit of embellishment.
GRACE: I`m glad you`re telling me that, Brad Gillie. I`m glad you`re telling me that. Are you telling me that he did not throw a punch or throw
a helmet or that he did?
GILLIE: He did throw a helmet. The punch is something reportedly that happened behind closed doors as far as that happening with another
driver. Like I said, we`re talking about incidents that happened in a long career, and it is sport. Again, we see this in every single sport.
Hockey, they throw punches every night. We see baseball players charging the mound, we see football players going after each other. This is
professional sports, and these things happen.
GRACE: Out to Jeff Bodine, former NASCAR driver, Daytona 500 winner. At the Kentucky Speedway today. Jeff, thank you for being with us. So is
that part of the sport? Throwing helmets? Threatening to mow down pit crew members? Is that part of the NASCAR sport? Because I didn`t know
that, and I`m a NASCAR fan.
BODINE: No. No. The mowing down someone is not part of the sport. Look, I`ve done everything Tony Stewart has done, thrown helmets, punches,
run into people, not people -- other people`s cars on the racetrack. Threatened to run them off the track. The late Dale Earnhardt did that.
Michael Waltrip has done that. Back in the early days of NASCAR, they would get out and actually fight, because they could do that. In today`s
world, the drivers are a little calmer because they have to answer to sponsors. They have sponsors, so they have to try to behave. But back in
the old days, they didn`t behave.
And Tony Stewart did not mow anyone down. To mow somebody down, you hit them with your front tires and you mow them down. He did not do that.
Kevin ran out and he didn`t (ph) hit (ph) him with the front tires. If you look at that video that I`ve seen online in slow motion, he grabs the wing
on Tony`s car. Why did he grab the wing? Was he trying to get into the car to get to Tony? Or what? We don`t know. We`ll never know.
GRACE: That`s a really interesting point. I think the two of you are right. Jeff Bodine and Brad Gillie, let`s see the video again. Does he go
up, Kevin Ward, go up and grab, try to grab the car? Take a look. Let`s see what happens. Maybe you`re absolutely right. Here`s the video from
Youtube. And you do see Kevin Ward Jr. going out on the track. Take a look. Is he, did he, there you go. We`re not going to show you the point
of impact. I don`t think that`s right. Tony Stewart, 43, goes into seclusion after the incident, but he`s back now. So Brad Gillie, between
you and Jeff Bodine, I want to get a picture of what you really think happened that day. So Jeff Bodine, what do you think really happened after
viewing the Youtube video?
BODINE: Well, you know, obviously Kevin came down to show his displeasure with Tony and got very close to the car going by, Tony had to
dodge (inaudible), and (inaudible), very difficult. Tony saw him. It looks like Tony saw him, and he did not hit him with the front wheel. So
he missed him. It most appears like Kevin grabbed the side of the wing on Tony`s car. And Tony turned the car to avoid him, and he turned it to the
right, because if you turn a dirt car to the left, the back end is going to slide out the direction where Kevin was standing. So Tony actually turned
the car the opposite way, trying to get the back of the car to slide away from Kevin, but Kevin already had ahold of the wing.
GRACE: It`s interesting that you said slide away. Brad Gillie, Sirius XM NASCAR radio host, with the dirt cars, with the dirt track like
this, when you accelerate, from what I can see, and I`m untrained in this, unlike you. It looks like, when you take off or accelerate, it looks like
it makes the car slip and slide in the dirt.
GILLIE: Yes. That`s correct. And look, the difference between these cars they were driving that night and what we drive out on the street every
day, there is no neutral. There is no coasting. These cars literally are a direct drive from the engine to the rear gears, to the rear wheels. So
it`s not like he could have pushed in a clutch or done anything like that. This car is always in forward motion when the engine is running.
When I looked at that video, the first time I saw it and the last time I have seen it, all it did for me was just bring up more questions. We
don`t know what was going on with Tony`s car leading up to the impact. We don`t know what direction he was facing. We don`t know what direction he
was looking inside of the race car. All we really see is his car coming in the frame and then the unfortunate incident that we`re talking about now.
So with the video that we have available to us, there`s probably more questions that I have just based on watching it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Tonight, yet another and different, stunning road rage fueled incident caught on tape. Tonight, mom`s road rage, with her child in the
car.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take a look at this. An alleged road rage incident, just caught on camera.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Film that, fatty!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Okay, and it goes on and on. Liz, please cue up the rest of that. As a matter of fact, take a look at mom`s twisted road rage, caught
on video with her child in the car.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You think you can cut me off like that! Let me get your license plate! When you [ bleep ] cut me off, I almost hit you!
Film that!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don`t touch me!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re the one that almost caused a wreck, you fat [ muted ], film that, fatty! What are you going to do about it? Oh,
really, really? Yes, go fat boy, go, fat boy. Fat boy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Okay. Now, we`ve reached out to that lady, the mom, with her boy in the front seat, seeing all of this. She says that she was
protecting her child. Candace Trunzo (ph), senior news editor, MailOnline.com, what in the hay happened?
TRUNZO: Oh, it is incredible, Nancy. She says that she was cut off by this guy driving a pickup truck, and she wasn`t ending it there. She
drove, followed him, pulled in front of him and started rants of expletives that you wouldn`t believe.
GRACE: Okay, Clark Goldband, take a look at the video, I mean, the video speaks for itself. While Clark`s talking, I want to stay on the
video for the viewer to make the decision themselves. They don`t need to hear it from us. Clark, I`m not quite sure, the mom was saying she was
protecting her child?
GOLDBAND: Nancy, I think the big question here is what we don`t see. Of course this was recorded by the gentleman who was the alleged victim in
this situation. But what the mom says is this started after he swerved around her when she was stuck, so she apparently sees him swerve around to
the left and then to the right, and becomes enraged because her son is in the car.
GRACE: So she claims he cut her off. Caryn Stark, is that in a nutshell? Claims he cut her off? All right. Caryn Stark, help me out
here. The mom says she`s protecting her child, but we are seeing her get out of her car and come around to the driver that she says cut her off.
And verbally attack him. She`s been booked. What was she booked on, Clark Goldband?
GOLDBAND: Suspicion of unauthorized entry into a vehicle.
STARK: Nancy, this is pure rage. You`re never supposed to go with this kind of feeling, because you`re not making much sense. How is she
protecting her child? She`s out of the car. She`s engaging with somebody who is bigger than she is, so she could be harmed. And she`s just
screaming, yelling, calling names.
GRACE: And the little boy is alone --
(CROSSTALK)
STARK: Unprotected.
GRACE: In the car.
STARK: Right.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Okay. Another road rage fueled incident, this time it`s a mom with her child in the car caught on tape. We reached out to the mother.
She says she`s trying to protect her child, but Peter Odom, Jeff Gold, first to you, Odom, why does she let the window down? She`s speeding
alongside. I don`t know if she`s speeding into oncoming traffic? If I could see the video I could probably tell. Let the window down and yelling
across the child. I guess cursing him out.
ODOM: Very conveniently, the person that made this tape didn`t tape him endangering her child. It`s clear that she lost her cool, but
something made her lose her cool, and apparently she thought her child was in danger, and she`s not the only mother who would get enraged at something
like that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You fat -- film that, fatty! What are you going to do about it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of here. Move.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, really, really? Oh, yes, fat boy. Go, fat boy, go, fat boy. Fat boy!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Okay. You know what? Let`s stop and remember American hero, Army Staff Sergeant Joshua Whitaker, 23, Long Beach. A Green Beret, Bronze
Star, Purple Heart, dreamed of a career in private security. Getting married in Costa Rica. Parents Frank and Catherine, Joshua Whitaker,
American hero.
Thanks again for being with us. Drew up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.
END
