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Nancy Grace
Cooper`s Mom Takes a Poly
Aired September 22, 2014 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. The tragic death of 22- month-old toddler Cooper, strapped in alone for hours in a baking hot car by Daddy. But was the tot murdered? Damning evidence Daddy sexting six
different women, even sending photos of his erect penis as baby Cooper dies of heat stroke, scratching his little face, banging back and forth to
escape, screaming out for Daddy. The father of the tot dead in a hot car indicted. Charges, murder one.
Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, we learn little Cooper`s mother takes a lie detector test. Why? And what are the results?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She states Ross must have left him in the car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On a sweltering hot day for seven hours.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Allegations he was sexting.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are photos of his exposed penis.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: While his son was dying inside their car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She looks at him, and she`s like, Well, did you say too much?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Grainy surveillance video emerging after a teen co-ed seemingly vanishes into thin air. Tonight, after combing through hours and
hours of tape, a mystery man spotted following along with co-ed Hannah. And still no sign of missing co-ed Hannah Graham. As we go to air, cops
executing yet another search warrant.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The focus still, Find Hannah Graham.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is every parent`s worst nightmare.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Law enforcement says Matthew was seen on surveillance video walking behind Hannah at the downtown mall.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want to talk to Jesse Matthew.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who saw Hannah? Somebody did.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. The tragic death of 22-month-old toddler Cooper, strapped in alone for hours in a baking hot car by Daddy. But was the tot
murdered? Damning evidence Daddy sexting six different women, even sending photos of his erect penis as baby Cooper dies of heat stroke, scratching
his little face, banging back and forth to escape, screaming out for Daddy. The father of the tiny tot indicted by the grand jury. Charges, murder
one.
Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, we learn little Cooper`s mother takes a lie detector test. Why? And what are the results?
Straight out to Michael Christian, on the story. Michael, was this a lie detector at police or FBI request?
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): No, Nancy, this was a lie detector that was commissioned by her attorney and was done
in her attorney`s office, I believe.
GRACE: OK. Whoa, whoa, whoa! Back it up. Back it up! So are you telling me her private lawyer, the criminal defense attorney -- I think
it`s Lawrence Zimmerman -- he arranged the polygraph and it was actually conducted in his office, in the defense lawyer`s office?
CHRISTIAN: I`m not sure if it was done in the office or not, but we know that yes, he is, indeed, the one who arranged for it.
GRACE: OK. Ninette Sosa with All News 106.7, do we know the polygrapher that did the polygraph on the tot`s nom?
NINETTE SOSA, ALL NEWS 106.7 (via telephone): He`s described as a licensed veteran polygrapher and former law enforcement officer, has
decades of experience.
GRACE: What`s his name?
SOSA: I do not have his name, but I do know that he is extremely experienced.
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa! If you don`t know his name, Ninette, no offense, then how do you know anything about him? Who told you his
experience, the defense lawyer?
SOSA: Of course, the defense lawyer says that...
GRACE: Oh, OK. All right.
SOSA: ... Lawrence Zimmerman.
GRACE: All right, so let`s just back it up, Ninette Sosa. Everyone, Ninette Sosa joining me from All News 106.7. So this is what I know right
now. I know baby Cooper`s mother has taken a lie detector test, and it was a test not arranged by police or the FBI. It was a lie detector arranged
by her private lawyer, we think in her lawyer`s office -- trying to confirm that. And you`re saying you don`t know who the polygrapher was.
Now, Ninette, you usually know all the facts. Is that because the defense is not releasing the name of the polygrapher?
SOSA: I would say yes. They have not released the name of the polygrapher because...
GRACE: OK.
SOSA: ... it would be splattered all over the place if they wanted that name out there and it`s not.
GRACE: Excuse me. Wa-wait. Wa-wait. Hold on. Why? Why not release the name of the polygrapher? I don`t understand that, Ninette.
SOSA: They shouldn`t (ph) have to. I believe Mr. Zimmerman is going on his demeanor, what they expect from him. It`s on a press release and
it`s on an official statement that says, My firm retained a licensed veteran polygrapher...
GRACE: OK, Ninette, every time I`m asking you a question I`m getting an answer but it`s not the answer to the question that I asked. Maybe it`s
because we don`t know the answer.
Unleash the lawyers. Joining me, Shireen Hormozdi out of Atlanta, also Darryl Cohen, former prosecutor, now defense attorney out of the
Atlanta jurisdiction.
Ninette Sosa is absolutely correct, as usual, Darryl Cohen. But what I don`t understand is why aren`t they releasing the name of the
polygrapher? The defense lawyer, Lawrence Zimmerman, for the tot`s mother, is saying, Oh, he`s great, he`s got years of experience, he`s former law
enforcement. Well, then who is he? Why won`t they tell us that?
DARRYL COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think, Nancy, they want to wait and see what -- how it shakes out, exactly what`s going to come down.
GRACE: Why?
COHEN: Because she has taken a polygraph under good circumstances, as opposed to taking one from the GBI or the Cobb County police department.
GRACE: What`s wrong with that?
COHEN: Because it is so weighted when you take a polygraph with the police, with law enforcement that you`re very unlikely to pass it. And she
took it...
GRACE: Why are you saying that, that you`re unlikely to pass a polygraph if you`re telling the truth when police give you a polygraph,
versus when your defense lawyer arranges a polygraph? Why are you saying that? The truth is the truth is the truth.
COHEN: But it`s not the truth, Nancy. The truth comes out because you may be uptight. You may have taken some type of sedative. The
police...
GRACE: Sedative?
COHEN: You may have gone to...
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa! Why did you say sedative?
COHEN: Because that`s a way of beating a polygraph from time to time, making it non -- inconclusive.
GRACE: A sedative can make you...
COHEN: Inconclusive.
GRACE: ... trick a polygraph?
COHEN: It can make it inconclusive.
GRACE: Everybody, I have no facts supporting the fact that tot Cooper mom took a sedative of any type before her polygraph. But Darryl, you`re
saying that is a way to beat a polygraph.
COHEN: That is one of the ways to make it inconclusive.
GRACE: OK. You know what? I respect you, Darryl. But you`ve got your JD. I don`t think you`ve got your polygrapher`s license.
Let`s go out to Christopher Pukenas, polygraph expert, former lieutenant with the New Jersey State Police. Christopher, thank you for
being with us. How long were you with the state police?
CHRISTOPHER PUKENAS, FMR. LIEUTENANT NJ STATE POLICE (via telephone): Thirty years, Nancy.
GRACE: Now, you are an expert polygrapher. Why wouldn`t the polygrapher want their name out there? Why is that being kept a secret
tonight?
PUKENAS: There`s no reason at all for that, Nancy. His name should absolutely be released.
GRACE: And I`m not saying he`s not great, but I want to know why they`re withholding. See, you don`t throw out a press release to me and
not give me all the facts, and then I don`t question, Well, why aren`t you giving me his name?
Another thing, Christopher Pukenas, former lieutenant with the New Jersey State Police -- Christopher, Darryl Cohen has just brought up the
aspect of sedatives before a polygraph. Is that true? If you take a sedative, does that affect your performance?
PUKENAS: Nancy, for someone to purposely beat a polygraph test, they would have to know when to react, when not to react. You can`t -- you
cannot control your physiological responses to every question on the test. It might cause all your responses to go one way or another way, but it`s
not going to cause you to beat the test. Not at all.
GRACE: Well, let me ask you this. How many questions have to be asked on a polygraph for it to be a legitimate polygraph?
PUKENAS: Normally, there`s approximately 10 questions on each test, and there are three tests given.
GRACE: Now, OK, you said normally. But Christopher Pukenas, how do I know how many questions were on this poly?
PUKENAS: We don`t unless they tell us. And that`s one of the problems with a defense-administered polygraph test.
GRACE: OK, let me go back to Michael Christian. We know three of the questions, Michael. Do we know how many other questions we were asked --
that were asked?
CHRISTIAN: We don`t, Nancy. We only know the three that were quoted in the press release.
GRACE: OK. Ninette Sosa, All News 106.7, did we get all the questions? Were there other questions, or do we just not know?
SOSA: There were definitely other questions. We know that because in the release, it says excerpts of questions, of the three questions that we
did release. So yes, there were other questions. What they were, we don`t know.
GRACE: Interesting. Back to the lawyers, Shireen Hormozdi and Darryl Cohen.
Everyone, tonight we are learning the mother of little Cooper, the tot that died in a baking hot car -- I mean, in this scenario, the oven takes
on the qualities -- the car takes on the quality of an oven -- an oven -- with the child sitting in it as the temperature soars.
All right, Shireen Hormozdi, it`s as if they are playing a game of now you see it, now you don`t, saying Mom`s passed a polygraph, or Mom has
taken a polygraph. Here are three of the questions. Why aren`t they telling us, Shireen, who gave the polygraph, what were all the questions,
and did she pass all the questions, some of the questions? Why don`t we know the answers to that?
SHIREEN HORMOZDI, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, we don`t know if they released that information to the district attorney`s office, and that`s the
relevant question.
GRACE: This was a press release. This was a press release given to the public, which leads me to another question, Shireen. Why would you
give a press release saying, My client has taken a polygraph, here are three of the questions asked?
You know what? Let`s look at the questions. What are the questions, Michael Christian? And give them to me verbatim, please.
CHRISTIAN: OK. First one -- "Prior to June 18th, did you know that your husband would leave your son in that vehicle? Answer, no."
GRACE: OK.
CHRISTIAN: Question two. "Did you plan or arrange with your husband to leave your son in that vehicle? Answer, no." And the final question
that we know is, "Did your husband tell you that he was going to leave your son in that vehicle? Answer, no."
GRACE: Out to Christopher Pukenas, polygraph expert, former lieutenant with the New Jersey State Police. Christopher, I`m trying to
understand this polygraph that her defense lawyer is saying she passed. We don`t know how many questions she was asked. We only know what they have
told us.
You`re saying that a lie detector test requires three different series of questions, usually 10 or so questions each. We have been given three
questions that her defense lawyer says she passed. Now, you say in order to pass a lie detector, you get a plus-6. How many questions out of,
hypothetically 10, do you have to answer truthfully to pass?
PUKENAS: Three.
GRACE: So she could have answered untruthfully -- or not her, or anybody. Someone could answer untruthfully on seven questions and then
pass three relevant questions and still pass the test overall, Christopher?
PUKENAS: You`re really comparing three questions to those three questions that you were already told. It`s a comparison of control
questions to relevant questions. The other four questions are like introductory questions. They don`t really count in the overall score of
the test.
So she would either have to pass those three control questions or she would fail the three relevant questions. They`re saying -- the defense is
saying that she passed those three control questions, which we done know what they are, though.
GRACE: She could fail three questions out of 10 on three different tests and still pass overall?
PUKENAS: She could do bad (ph). That`s highly unlikely. Normally, a person is consistent through the whole test. In other words, they`re going
to pretty much pass all the test questions, or they`re going to fail all the test questions. Rarely do you have somebody who passes two, fails two,
goes back and forth. That`s what leads to an inconclusive test result.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Child appeared wide awake and happy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m at five minutes in. It is unbelievably hot in here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was having up to six different conversations with different women.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Grand jury indicted Justin Ross Harris.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: In the last hours, we learned that toddler Cooper`s mother takes a lie detector test. It is not a lie detector given by police or
FBI. It is a lie detector arranged by her private defense lawyer. We`re still trying to confirm whether it was actually administered in his office.
We were given three of the questions. We don`t know if there were other questions or what they were. And we have been told by her defense lawyer
she passes the lie detector.
Back to Ninette Sosa with All News 106.7. We do learn the defense lawyer says she passed, correct?
SOSA: Yes, he says she passed.
GRACE: Back out to Shireen Hormozdi and Darryl Cohen. Darryl, you and I prosecuted in the same office, all felonies. And typically, lie
detector tests are not allowed into evidence unless both parties, defense and prosecution, stipulate or agree up front before it`s administered that
it will come into evidence.
Now, if that agreement has been reached, which rarely doesn`t happen, then the polygraph comes in. I don`t recall ever agreeing to a polygraph
administered by the defense lawyer.
COHEN: Nancy...
GRACE: Did you ever do that as a prosecutor? Now, I know you`ve done it as a defense lawyer, and that`s very wise of you because you control the
poly. Sometimes -- I don`t know how it happens -- subjects even find out what the questions are ahead of time. They can rehearse. And I have no
indication that happened here.
But why would you choose a private polygrapher? Why would you have it in your defense office? And is it true that there`s nothing to keep the
subject from learning the questions ahead of time?
COHEN: Well, Nancy, first of all, I would have this polygraph, regardless of whether the prosecution agreed to it or not. And once she
passed it -- and I wouldn`t say anything about it until after she passed it. And I think what Mr. Zimmerman is doing is trying to show that he -- I
have a witness, I have a client who is nothing more, nothing less than the victim`s mother. And she did not play a part in this. That`s why, in my
view, he did what he did.
GRACE: OK. What about the possibility -- and I`m not talking about Cooper`s mother. We don`t know anything about that. But if your defense
lawyer is arranging your polygraph, is it possible the subject sees the questions ahead of time?
COHEN: I suppose it`s possible. That`s one reason I would have it done at the polygrapher`s office, not at mine. Certainly, it`s possible.
GRACE: OK. Christopher Pukenas, expert polygrapher. What effect would that have on the outcome of the polygraph if you know the questions
ahead of time?
PUKENAS: Well, Nancy, you have to know the questions ahead of time. We don`t want any surprises on the polygraph test. So all the questions
are gone over to prior to administration of the test.
GRACE: You mean with the subject?
PUKENAS: Absolutely.
GRACE: So you can know all the questions ahead of time?
PUKENAS: Yes. You have to know the questions ahead of time. Otherwise, you`d be surprised.
GRACE: OK. Are you talking about the subject would be surprised, or the administrator would be surprised?
PUKENAS: The person taking the test would be surprised. So we always review all of questions. We want to make sure that they understand the
questions so they have to know exactly what`s going to be asked and there`s no surprises on the test.
GRACE: Out to Ben Levitan, telecommunications expert, Raleigh, North Carolina. Ben, we are now learning that Cooper`s mom has taken a lie
detector. Her defense lawyer says she passes it and has released three of the questions that she was asked. What do you think that the prosecution
is doing?
BEN LEVITAN, TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXPERT (via telephone): Nancy, as far as -- from the reports, we know that the police got to the -- Harris`s
computers and phone networks before anything could be compromised. We know everything is preserved.
For one, we know -- we`re well aware that Mr. Harris`s Internet searches have been discovered. The first thing somebody would do in
attempting to cover up their digital trail is erase their digital history. So I believe that the police have preserved all the digital evidence of the
Harrises`, and that`s going to be a treasure trove of information that`s going to give us a lot of information about what happened here, Nancy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His exposed penis.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So-called hot car death.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Level of malice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People who advocate living child-free.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He wanted to live a child-free life, or there`s evidence to suggest that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Also in the last hours, a friend of Mommy speaks out on national television, insisting that neither Mommy nor Daddy, the father,
Justin Ross Harris, intentionally planned for their child to die.
There is Daddy in a public bathroom taking selfies of himself that he shared with some of the ladies he was sexting. That`s always good to know.
Straight back out to Ninette Sosa, All News 106.7. Also in the last hours, we learn from inside the district attorney`s office that the DA is
absolutely seeking the death penalty in this case and has yet to announce it.
Ninette, what, if anything, do you know about that?
SOSA: That case is scheduled to come up September 25th, and Cobb County district attorney there is apparently going to seek the death
penalty. He said he was going to make a formal announcement on that either on the day or in the next couple of days, as September 25th is this week.
GRACE: To Dr. Vincent DiMaio, forensic pathologist joining me out of San Antonio. Dr. DiMaio. The car that baby Cooper died in took on a
baking or oven effect as the temperature soared. Explain what that means.
DR. VINCENT DIMAIO, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST (via telephone): The exposure to sunlight would increase the temperature in the car by at least
40 to 50 degrees within a half hour to an hour, thus providing a dangerous, unlivable atmosphere.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m at five minutes in. It is unbelievably hot in here. We`re nearing 100 degrees already, 10 minutes in. I`ll tell you, it
is almost unbearable. At this point, the temperature is about 106 degrees.
Fifteen minutes now, and it`s about 110 in my car.
Twenty minutes now, at this point, and it is -- right -- it`s hovering right around 110, 112.
Twenty-give minutes -- it`s now -- oh, gosh, what it is, 113 degrees.
Thirty minutes, thirty minutes in a parked car with the windows cracked. The temperature right now is about 115, 116, really hot.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Tonight, grainy surveillance video emerging after a teen co-ed seemingly vanishing into thin air. After combing through hours and hours
of tape, a mystery man spotted following along with Hannah. Police say he leaves before answering questions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A massive search is under way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re searching for Hannah.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To bring Hannah Graham back home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somebody knows what happened to Hannah.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say the man is 32 years old, black, 6 `2, 270 pounds with dreadlocks.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I believe Jesse Matthew was the last person she was seen with before she vanished off the face of the earth. Because it`s
been a week and we can`t find her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Can you imagine spending your whole life loving and nurturing, pouring all of your energies into this child, then as a teen, she just
vanishes off the face of the earth? It`s hard for me to take in what her mother and father are going through tonight. The man you just heard
speaking is chief Tim Longo of the Charlottesville Police Department, and he`s joining us. I`m hearing, Jean Casarez, this has just gone out, Jean
Casarez, CNN correspondent who`s been on the scene covering the story. This is the newest wanted poster. Wanted, Jesse L.J. Matthew Jr., age 32.
Okay. Jean, what have you learned?
CASAREZ: Nancy, things are happening so quickly here. This wanted poster just was released by police. He is wanted for two misdemeanor
counts of reckless driving. Reckless driving, yes. He is not tied in to the disappearance of Hannah Graham, but on Saturday, Jesse Matthew walked
himself into the Charlottesville Police Department. When he got there, he asked for an attorney. So the police went to the commonwealth`s attorney.
They got him a list of attorneys, Jesse Matthew selected one. That attorney came down to the police department. Believe they spoke. Jesse
Matthew didn`t say anything and he walked out.
Later that day, the state police here in Virginia noted a car that was driving at excessive rates of speed. It was, they say, Jesse Matthew.
They`ve now issued two warrants of misdemeanor counts of reckless driving and they want him to turn himself in. They want him arrested.
GRACE: In addition to Jean Casarez, joining me right now, Chief Tim Longo, the police chief there in Charlottesville. Chief, I don`t get it.
Are you telling me that this guy is leaving the police station and floors it?
LONGO: Yes, he walked right out the door, Nancy, walked right out the door, and quite frankly we know no more about this young lady`s
disappearance than the moment he walked in the door. As the correspondent just said, just some time thereafter, he jumped in a car and took off at a
high rate of speed. His driving behavior was so reckless that the state police officials and the federal official that was present in the car
behind him had to disengage his -- for the safety of themselves and others, quite frankly.
GRACE: Okay. Hold on, Jean Casarez, Talia Cunningham, and Chief Longo. Unleash the lawyers. Shareen Hormozdi, Darryl Cohen. Darryl,
you`re the last one seen with the girl who goes missing, her parents are frantic. She`s a teen, she`s a college student. You`re the last one seen
on the video. Cops spend thousands of hours combing through all of these videos surveillance from all the stores, the restaurants, everything along
that strip. You come in the police station, don`t say a word, and take off and gun it, put the pedal to the metal and drive crazy? I don`t get it.
That`s not a good look, Darryl.
COHEN: The only thing, Nancy, that makes sense to me is it`s nonsense. He walked in, he`s African-American, he may very well have been
very, very frightened that he was going to be the person who they were going to aim at. So he came frightened, left, put the pedal to the metal.
GRACE: I don`t like what you`re saying. Chief Longo, you`re not aiming at anybody. This guy is the last one seen with her.
LONGO: Well, yes, absolutely.
GRACE: Not aiming at anybody. You`re trying to find out -- we know - - Darryl Cohen, I really resent that. You have a daughter. A couple of them as I recall. Wouldn`t you want to talk to the last person seen on
video?
COHEN: What I`m saying, Nancy, is not that the chief or the police did anything wrong. What I`m saying is this man and perception, after what
happened in Missouri, he got scared to death in my view.
GRACE: After what happened in Missouri?
COHEN: What happened with the police officer, with the teenager.
GRACE: He`s not in Ferguson.
COHEN: I`m talking about Ferguson.
GRACE: You`re trying to tie Ferguson into this?
COHEN: I`m tying it in mentally and emotionally. This guy got scared, he walked in, was going to do the right thing. Saw the police
officers and got scared and left. Putting the pedal to the metal is exactly what somebody scared, frightened, and not doing the right thing to
do.
GRACE: I tell you what happened, Shireen Hormozdi, Longo and his people go get the guy a defense lawyer. They all sit there twiddling their
thumbs while the defense lawyer comes to the police station. The defense lawyer talks to him a few minutes. He leaves. Obviously the defense
lawyer said, don`t cooperate, get the hay out of here.
HORMOZDI: As was his right. He did not have to give a statement to police.
GRACE: What is wrong with you two?
HORMOZDI: The fact he fled from the scene --
GRACE: Why not help the police find the girl, Shareen?
HORMOZDI: Like Mr. Cohen said, he might have been intimidated, might have been scared. I`d encourage him at this point to work with a lawyer
and provide the information as to the last encounter with Graham.
GRACE: Okay. Let me get back to Jean Casarez and Chief Tim Longo. Okay, Chief Longo -- everybody, you`re looking at just some of the video
that Chief Longo has provided us. The girl clearly, she`s not from the area. She`s a student there at UVA. She gets twisted around. The minutes
tick by. It gets later and later and later. It`s now 1:00. And you see her just walking around. Lost. And the next thing you know, you tell me,
Chief Longo. What do you catch on surveillance?
LONGO: Well, she`s walking eastbound on a pedestrian mall. He`s walking westbound on the mall. He loops back. The next time you see him,
he`s with her. Side by side. We have a witness that puts both of them in a local bar and restaurant that`s just up the corner from where that video
transpired. He purchases her alcohol. They`re seen leaving together. As I`ve said 1,000 times, this guy was the last guy who was with this girl
before she disappeared and that`s why it was so important we talk to him. He`s going to come in and say, chief, I was with her, but we parted ways.
Come in here and tell me that. But we`ve got an investigation and a commitment here to find this girl for her parents, and that`s what we`re
going to do, and we`re going to need all the cooperation we can get, and particularly from the guy who was the last one, as far as I`m concerned,
who was with her.
GRACE: Okay. Marc Klaas, president and founder of Klaaskids foundation. I am remembering the moment, which I`ve told you about before
privately, in a giant store, I think it was Babies or Toys R Us. It was Babies R Us. I had John David and Lucy with me. They just started
walking. I turned and was looking at all the various things. I think it was baby wash. I was looking at all of them. I turned around, there was
Lucy, and no John David. And for those -- honey, I let out a scream like nobody`s business. And everybody came rushing. Well, we found him, of
course, but he had taken off running and I didn`t hear him because he had on soft little shoes. And in those moments, it was as if my whole world
had ended, and I cannot imagine these parents. You know, you got to scrape together thousands and thousands of dollars to send your children to UVA,
all right, it`s very expensive. They think they`re giving her the world. Sending her there. It`s a great, great school. And now this. Can you
even imagine what`s going through their minds, Marc?
KLAAS: Oh, yes, I can very well imagine what`s going through their minds because it was going through mine. But here`s the thing that I can`t
believe, Nancy. This man is a person of interest. He was the last person seen with her. She got in his car and left with him. They had probable
cause to search his car. That gave them probable cause to search his apartment. He walked right into the police station and he walked right out
again. And now he`s missing, too. How could it come to that? How could the person of interest in this case and perhaps other missing woman cases
simply walk out and disappear? Why was not 24-hour surveillance on this man from the minute he was identified as a person of interest? How could
he just disappear?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: We covered a Denver story about a crimestopper search for a man who allegedly sneaks into a woman`s house and takes a selfie on her
phone while she`s in another room putting her child to bed. That story later updated by police. The man ultimately cleared. Identified, cleared
of all charges. We pulled the story down from our website in February. It was recently brought to our attention that story still appeared on the
Nancy Grace Facebook page. We`ve now pulled that story from all platforms.
Let`s quickly go back to the search for missing co-ed, Hannah Graham. All right. Chief Tim Longo with us, chief of the Charlottesville police
department. You heard what Marc Klaas just said about how did the guy get away? I`ve got an idea that you can tell us how he got away. How did that
happen?
LONGO: Yes, Nancy, I -- you know, I can certainly appreciate Mr. Klaas` position in that regard and that of many others around their country
scratching their head trying to figure out this. We don`t do significant cases like this without the relationship and collaboration with our
commonwealth attorney, as you know, our chief prosecuting authority. From the moment we obtained the search warrants, we were in constant discussion
with the commonwealth about one, probable cause to arrest him, and two, significantly reasonable suspicion to detain him at least during the
execution of those warrants, and we were advised we lacked both.
We were not in a position to either detain or arrest him at that time. Nor were we in a position to arrest him when he came into the building. So
as much as we would have wanted to hold on to Mr. Matthew until we conducted our investigation more thoroughly, we didn`t have a legal basis
to do so.
As far as keeping apprised of his whereabouts, as you know, we`re in collaboration with the state police and FBI in the case. Have been for the
last seven days and have been using every resource available to us to do just that.
GRACE: You know, Chief Longo, you have referred to him as a person of interest. And you are convinced he was the last one with her before she
disappeared. Why are you so convinced of that?
LONGO: There`s no information to the contrary. Nobody has come forth and said anything any different. In fact, as I indicated before,
eyewitnesses say they were together in that bar and they left together. And no one places them apart thereafter. Therefore, I can only reasonably
conclude that they were together when he left the downtown area. I have no information to the contrary, and until such time I do, as far as I`m
concerned, he is the last person that was with her before she disappeared.
Jean Casarez, CNN correspondent joining me in Charlottesville, Jean, I know her parents are devastated. What do you know?
CASAREZ: Nancy, all last week, everybody said why aren`t they talking, why aren`t they coming out? And yesterday at the press
conference, we were all called at the end of the day for an update on the investigation. All of a sudden we hear at the end that the parents of
Hannah Graham are now coming to speak. I think that room just stood still. Nancy, I was sitting very close to them. It took every ounce of strength
they had to step before that microphone and speak. Mrs. Graham was shaking uncontrollably. Her husband was trying to make sure she was okay while he
was trying to emit to the world the words of help us find our Hannah and we don`t want this happening to someone else. It was an immense amount of
strength.
GRACE: Everybody, just as we go to air, this comes out. If we could show this. This is the wanted flyer police have put out for Jesse
Matthews. He is a person of interest, according to Charlottesville police. Cops are calling him a person of interest because, to their knowledge, he
is the last person known to be with Hannah, to see Hannah, before she vanishes. Authorities have no suspects in the case, but they are naming
him as a person of interest. Jean Casarez, what do we know about this guy? Who is he?
CASAREZ: Well, he is from Charlottesville. He went to school in this area. He has a lot of friends in this area, who say he`s a really nice
guy, and that he would help somebody, not hurt them. He works at the University of Virginia Medical Center. He is an orderly in the surgical
ward, and that`s what he does for a living. The hospital did not confirm that he was at work today, but he is still a current employee there.
GRACE: Also with me from WCHV, Talia Cunningham. What more do we know about this guy, Jesse, "LJ" Matthew Jr.?
CUNNINGHAM: Hi, Nancy. Like she said, we do know that he is from the area, he did work at University of Virginia Medical Center. We also know
that he was most likely in possession of his sister`s vehicle, which is a light blue Nissan Centra with Virginia plates. The police are actively
looking for him now, and he may have associates and contacts all along the East Coast, specifically in Maryland, New York, Pennsylvania, Virginia, and
of course Washington, DC.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Please help bring this missing teen home. There is the video surveillance that Charlottesville police are telling us about. With us
tonight, the chief of the Charlottesville PD, Jean Casarez and Talia Cunningham taking your calls. Let`s go through the timeline. Chief Longo,
I can only imagine how many hundreds of hours you guys pored through surveillance video from how many places. Tell me the timeline as you know
it tonight, Chief Longo.
LONGO: She leaves her apartment dormitory room area sometime around 9:30-ish that Friday evening. She meets some friends for dinner at a
restaurant, I believe on University Avenue in the 1300 block. She leaves there about 11:00. They discuss meeting later in a particular location.
And then she stops at least two other places along the way and socializes with other students.
When she leaves the second place is when I believe the disorientation starts. She heads northbound, up 10th Street Northwest and she finds
herself at McGrady`s pub. She`s denied entry to that establishment. She goes east on Preston Avenue where we pick her up on another surveillance
camera from a gas station. She continues towards the downtown mall, and an eyewitness sees her make a right hand turn off of East Market Street, then
she goes on to the pedestrian mall and we see her twice in two video depictions at the mall.
GRACE: I`m showing it right now, Chief Longo. Jean Casarez, it`s just hurting me to see her walking around. Can we show the video. Or let
me see Jean, to see her walking around and I know she doesn`t know where she is.
CASAREZ: No, and it`s confusing. I`m right here right now on that mall that she was on. It is very confusing. Nancy, there were so many
other people there. That`s why police want them to come forward.
GRACE: Jean Casarez, Talia Cunningham, Chief Longo, thank you.
Let`s stop and remember American hero Army Master Sergeant Roberto Sabalu, Jr., 36, Chicago, Bronze Star, Meritorious Service Medal, Army
Commendation Medal, loved motorcycles. A Fort Leavenworth, Kansas road named in his honor. Parents Umberto (ph) and Raffaella, sister Elizabeth,
widow Amy, children Joshua and Adia (ph). Roberto Sabalu Jr., American hero.
Drew up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.
END
