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Nancy Grace
Did a Utah Woman Commit Suicide, or Was She Murdered?; Did Hubby Kills Wife?; 2-year-old Boy Found Dead
Aired October 09, 2014 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, to upscale Orem. He kisses his wife on the forehead, rubbing her feet, and she lies dead in a hospital
bed! But did the lovey-hubby murder his wife of three years to cash in on a million-dollar life insurance policy?
Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, we obtain lovey-hubby`s frantic 911 call. But what does it prove?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) blood!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He threatened to kill me and everybody I know. I don`t (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Certified the manner of death as homicide.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And Texas citizens up in arms after CPS sends a 2-year-old little boy back to Mommy after Mommy`s been investigated four times for
allegedly abusing her little baby, relatives and friends begging for Colton`s (ph) safety, even posting pictures of him on line covered in
bruises. Tonight, little Colton dead, and we call for criminal charges on child protective services.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From the time he was 6 months old until investigators found him in a shallow grave, state child protective services
had received four complaints into possible abuse against 2-year-old Colton Turner.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Very difficult because it`s still kind of unreal that this happened so close to home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. He kisses his wife on the forehead, rubbing her feet, and she lays dead in the hospital bed. Repeat, kissing her dead body
and rubbing her feet, and she lays dead there in the hospital bed. But did the lovey-hubby murder his wife of three years to cash in on a million-
dollar life insurance policy?
In the last hours, we obtain hubby`s frantic 911 call. But what does the call prove? Control room, tee up that 911 call for me.
Straight out to Jim Kirkwood, KTKK. Wasn`t she a little concerned? I mean, they were only three years in the marriage. There was a million
dollars worth of life insurance on her head. Didn`t that make her a little edgy? I mean, you know, you`ve been with your bride for what, a year, and
you suddenly want to up her life insurance policy?
JIM KIRKWOOD, KTKK (via telephone): The telling thing, Nancy, is that night, he`d been drinking and they`d been arguing, and she goes in the
bathroom to shower, and she locks the door. Now, that -- husbands and wives usually don`t lock the door when they`re going to take a shower.
GRACE: OK, right there, a fact I didn`t know. Unleash the lawyers, David Wolfe, veteran defense attorney, Atlanta, Danny Cevallos, defense
attorney and analyst joining me out of New York.
David Wolfe, do you feel like you have to lock the door to keep your wife out? Oh, and there`s Susan Moss has joined us. Hi, Sue Moss.
David Wolfe, do you have to lock the door to take a shower so your wife can`t get in? You worried she might murder you?
DAVID WOLFE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, but if I`m going to commit suicide, perhaps I would look the door so that I`d be...
GRACE: And take a shower?
WOLFE: ... in the privacy of the area...
GRACE: So what, you`ll be all clean...
WOLFE: Take a shower...
GRACE: ... to impress St. Peter?
WOLFE: Well, whatever difference it makes, the shower was taken. And she...
GRACE: OK.
WOLFE: All the evidence suggests she killed herself.
GRACE: You know, David Wolfe...
WOLFE: Everyone believes it.
GRACE: ... you started this, my friend.
WOLFE: Nancy, even the police...
GRACE: You started it, and I`m going to finish it.
WOLFE: Even the police said it appeared to be a suicide when they arrived. The only person to say no is the medical examiner, who said it`s
a press contact wound...
GRACE: Excuse me!
WOLFE: ... where a suicide would be shot (ph).
GRACE: Excuse me! Excuse me. And Sue Moss, where on her body was she shot?
SUE MOSS, VICTIMS RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Right in the head.
GRACE: OK.
MOSS: And unless you`re -- unless you`re a legless Olympian named Oscar, no one`s going to believe that you killed your wife with -- with --
you know, the way this is being said. It`s absolutely ridiculous!
GRACE: You know, Danny Cevallos -- let me see the lawyers, please. Danny Cevallos, I think the two of you defense lawyers need to read
something that was like the bible to me when I was prosecuting, "Method and Assessment of Homicide and Suicide."
It is so rare that a woman shoots herself in the head as a form of suicide, number -- also that she shoots herself at all as a form of
suicide. But if she does shoot herself as suicide, it will not be in the face or the head. It`s not thought out. It is instinctual. And it is so
incredible that a female would shoot herself in the head, right there, that`s a red flag, Cevallos.
DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, that`s the statistics that are convenient to you, Nancy. The other statistics are that people use
handguns overwhelmingly to commit suicide...
GRACE: Really? What people?
CEVALLOS: ... and they press them right up against their head and...
GRACE: What people?
CEVALLOS: What people?
GRACE: What people?
CEVALLOS: Handguns are -- statistics show...
GRACE: Males! Males!
CEVALLOS: Males, people, everybody uses handguns.
GRACE: No, males.
CEVALLOS: Part two is...
GRACE: No! Males!
WOLFE: ... that when they do so...
GRACE: Women do not do that!
CEVALLOS: When they do so, when they do commit suicide with a handgun, statistics show that they do put it up to their head, as opposed
to other parts of their body, an area not covered by clothing. So while you have statistics that show that it`s rare that females use handguns than
males, that may be true, but it does happen. So that same statistic...
GRACE: You know what?
CEVALLOS: ... can be a sword and a shield.
GRACE: David Wolfe, you and I both practiced in front of a judge that would tell every jury, It is your duty to make all witnesses speak the
truth and impugn perjury upon no one. There is a very clear way that Cevallos and I can both be right. And that is handguns are used very often
to commit suicide, he`s right, but not by women.
You know what? Hold on. Hold the thought. Let`s see what we learn from the 911 call. Roll it.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: 911, what city is your emergency?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: What address?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) (DELETED) Please come quick!
911 OPERATOR: OK, tell me that one more time so I know I have it right. OK. And I have officers headed over there. Tell me the phone
number you`re calling from, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) cell phone (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: I have officers on the way. I need to know what happened.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know! (INAUDIBLE) I came to the building and I saw blood! (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: I`m sorry. I can`t understand -- OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: Hello? I need you to calm down for a minute. I understand. (DELETED) My partner is dispatching somebody. I need to know
exactly what happened. Who is bleeding?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) I swear to God!
911 OPERATOR: You need to slow down. Calm down, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: I can`t understand you. You need to talk a little quieter, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) My wife`s life is on your head! My wife!
911 OPERATOR: OK, OK, take a breath for me, OK? What is your name?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: OK, they`re headed over there. They`re headed over there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Jim Kirkwood, KTKK. You know, wasn`t it noted at the time that the victim did not have any gunshot residue on her hands?
KIRKWOOD: That`s my understanding, Nancy. The -- it -- and the fact that he says the bath (ph) top was in the bathroom, and yet there`s no
blood trail from the bathroom to the kitchen.
GRACE: OK...
KIRKWOOD: The blood is all in the kitchen. His story is just full of holes, Nancy.
GRACE: Now, hold on. Are you telling me, Jim Kirkwood, there was blood all over the house?
KIRKWOOD: Yes.
GRACE: Now, why would there be blood all over the house if she committed suicide by shooting herself in the head? What, she shot herself
in the head, then walked around the house? Is that the story?
KIRKWOOD: He`s claiming -- he`s claiming she walked from the bathroom to the kitchen, but that`s nonsense.
GRACE: After she shot herself in the head?
KIRKWOOD: Yes.
GRACE: OK, we`re showing you actual crime scene photos right now. And notice the crime scene photos include smears, not just spatters. This
is extremely important. There are blood smears. Look what "GMA" showed this morning.
Let`s go back through the crime scene photos that we`ve got. The crime scene photos show spatter -- that is velocity spatter right there
from the actual shooting, I can tell you -- now smears. See the difference? She could not have shot herself, then smeared blood like that.
It`s forensically impossible.
Unleash the lawyers, Sue Moss, David Wolfe, Danny Cevallos. All right, David, I told you I`d come back to you. Let`s hear your explanation
of how a woman shoots herself in the head -- and I haven`t even gotten to the part where he`s rubbing her feet in front of the nurses and she`s dead
-- and then she smears it on the wall.
WOLFE: The evidence supports the contention. If someone was going to be murdering somebody, they press a gun to the head and pull the trigger
and blow their brains out. If somebody`s attempting to kill themselves, they put the gun to the head and then reluctantly try to stop, and they
could have injured themselves.
(CROSSTALK)
WOLFE: Right, she could have injured herself and been bleeding moving around the house. She was in a hospital bed, so she survived...
GRACE: OK, wait, wait!
WOLFE: ... the shooting. And the chances of her...
GRACE: Back that up.
WOLFE: ... moving around the home are very consistent with where the blood was found.
GRACE: David Wolfe...
WOLF: Yes?
GRACE: ... you`re not working a spell on me, all right, because I`ve seen you in court.
WOLFE: You do look younger than ever, but go ahead. I`m listening.
GRACE: Thank you. I`ve seen you in court. And you just actually said -- you know what, Sue Moss? I`m going to throw you a softball. Did
you just hear Wolfe say she reluctantly shot herself in the head, then, quote, "moved around the house" afterwards? Impossible!
MOSS: So let me get this straight! This woman went into the bathroom, shaved her legs, took a shower, got herself clean, and then she
decided, Oh, I don`t like the job I did, and killed herself?
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I shaved my legs, now I can go ahead and shoot myself.
WOLFE: There`s no evidence she shaved her legs that night.
MOSS: Absolutely...
WOLFE: There`s no evidence she shaved her legs that night. What we have...
GRACE: You know what?
WOLFE: ... is a girl that attempted to commit suicide...
MOSS: Have you read the background? Have you read the background?
WOLFE: ... attempted -- attempted...
MOSS: Yes, there is!
WOLFE: This is speculation!
MOSS; Yes, there is!
WOLFE: The razor in the shower does not mean that she did it that night!
GRACE: OK, you know what?
MOSS: She was taking a shower. She had a razor...
WOLFE: There`s no doubt she was taking...
MOSS: ... right in the bathroom where she had been...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Wait a minute!
MOSS; I don`t know how you can come to that conclusion!
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I`m going to throw this one to Cevallos. Get ready, Cevallos. All right, Jim Kirkwood, KTKK, how many different stories did lovey-hubby
tell?
KIRKWOOD: A shot from outside, but of course, no bullet hole through the window or wall. Somebody was an intruder, a mystery person that was in
there and did it, that she -- 80 percent chance that she killed herself. I mean, this guy has a lot of stories, Nancy.
GRACE: OK. Right now, we just got in the 911 tape. Before I play the rest, to you, Cevallos. Did you hear that? He`s changed his story
three times. He even said, Oh, there`s an 80 percent chance she killed herself.
CEVALLOS: Yes, number one, he was blasted, so to any -- at the time the police came, at the time this is supposed to have happened...
GRACE: You mean drunk?
CEVALLOS: Yes, drunk, whatever you want to call it. He`d had one too many hot toddies.
GRACE: You think that helps him?
CEVALLOS: No, it doesn`t help him...
(CROSSTALK)
CEVALLOS: Well, we know -- hold on. We know that voluntary intoxication isn`t going to be a defense.
GRACE: Not a defense.
CEVALLOS: But it may go to explain some of his bizarre and erratic behavior...
GRACE: Why?
CEVALLOS: ... which includes some really bad statements for himself.
GRACE: OK, let`s see what we can learn from the 911 tape. We`ve just gotten it. Let`s see if there are any clues in his call to police.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) I swear to God! She was in the shower! She came out of the shower, and I heard a pop (ph), and there`s
blood! And she`s in blood!
911 OPERATOR: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
(CROSSTALK)
911 OPERATOR: I have officers and paramedics on the way, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: OK? Can you -- OK, I understand. I need to help you, OK? All right, I`m here to help you. I have paramedics and officers on
the way to help you. OK, go outside. I should have an officer there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: OK, I have an officer that`s outside trying to find you. Can you go out and find him? Can you go out and find him? OK, go
out and get the officer so he can help you, OK? My officer is outside.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: OK, to get help for her, I need you to...
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His wife found shot to death.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was Conrad Truman`s frantic 911 call and strange behavior at the scene that raised the suspicion of Orem police.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK, we`re talking about the 911 call that we have just managed to get. This husband, in front of all of the nurses and doctors at the
hospital, goes into a real act, rubbing his dead wife`s feet -- I wonder if he ever rubbed her feet when she was alive -- but rubbing her feet, kissing
her forehead. All the while, she`s dead. He puts on a big show at the hospital.
Then we find out there is a $1 million life insurance policy all in -- about $950,000. Now we learn about bizarre behavior at the time police
arrive. We also learn of another story he tells police, that he thinks she was shot from somebody outside.
Isn`t it true, Jim Kirkwood, that the window was closed and not broken? How could somebody shoot her from outside?
KIRKWOOD: Yes, there`s no bullet hole through the wall or the window. That`s nonsense. But he made the claim.
GRACE: OK, Clark Goldband, what is the bizarre behavior we keep hearing about?
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: OK, well, Nancy, law enforcement testified under oath -- listen to this. He said he worked for
20 years as a law enforcement officer. He never had someone scream at him and threaten him as he tried to control and save someone at a crime scene.
Cop said he was verbally abusive and screaming to the point that, Nancy, they tell him to, Stop, stop, stop, and calm down, and try to take
him away from the scene and sit him down so he relaxes.
GRACE: OK, Jim Kirkwood, isn`t it true when police arrive at the scene of the shooting, the wife`s still lying in a pool of blood, right?
KIRKWOOD: Exactly.
GRACE: All right, a pool. Let me emphasize, pool of blood. Now, that suggests that she fell to the ground the moment she was shot, and that
is where the majority of the blood is.
You`re seeing crime scene photos from ABC`s "Good Morning America."
If she dropped right there -- to Dr. Tim Gallagher, medical examiner, forensic pathologist. Dr. Gallagher, what about the defense theory that
she walked around the house after the gunshot wound to the head when we know that she`s found by police lying in a pool of blood?
DR. TIM GALLAGHER, MEDICAL EXAMINER, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST (via telephone): Well, that`s generally the case. A gunshot wound to the head
is instantly -- at least instantly incapacitating and often instantly fatal. I`d have to know a little bit more about the caliber of the gun,
but I have a good feeling that...
GRACE: Well, you know what? Hold on. I can tell you that right now. Jim Kirkwood, isn`t it a Sig Sauer 380?
KIRKWOOD: Exactly. That`s what it is, Nancy.
GRACE: OK, what about it, Dr. Gallagher? And I now find out that the husband bought his and hers Sig Sauers. OK, that`s a whole `nother can of
worms. Let`s talk about, would she have fallen right where she was shot?
GALLAGHER: Well, every case that -- every suicide case that I had involving a 380 caliber was a through and through gunshot wound that was
instantly fatal. I would say there`s a -- she had to have fallen and died in one position. She could not have been walking around the house...
GRACE: OK...
GALLAGHER: ... after suffering an injury.
GRACE: ... I see David Wolfe tossing and turning in his seat. Unleash the lawyers, Sue Moss, David Wolfe, Danny Cevallos. What about it,
Wolfe?
WOLF: It depends on where the gunshot wound entered her head and how it exited. If it didn`t go through her brain and was only an injury to the
head that allowed her to survive, then she doesn`t drop right there and she can move around. And the doctor will tell you...
(CROSSTALK)
WOLFE: Just hang on one second. And the doctor will tell you that injuries to the scalp and the head will bleed more than...
GRACE: OK. Put him back up, please!
WOLFE: ... most other injuries.
GRACE: OK, so hold on. You`re suggesting that she shoots herself. It`s not through the brain, it`s somewhere else in the head.
WOLF: It can injure the skull, yes.
GRACE: OK. And bleeds profusely because it`s a head wound.
WOLF: Exactly.
GRACE: So let`s follow through with your theory. Let`s think it through, and let me explain to you why that doesn`t work. In my thinking,
because if she shoots herself in the head and she`s not dead, so she walks around the house for some inexplicable reason, and then comes and lays down
in the original pool of blood? That would have to be your theory.
WOLF: The pool of blood could be there after she fell to the ground and continued to bleed...
GRACE: All right.
WOLFE: ... which may have meant her heart was still pumping and she was still alive. She wouldn`t have been in a hospital bed if she wasn`t
still alive when they got her to the hospital.
GRACE: OK. Well put. What about it, sue Moss?
MOSS: Oh it -- it -- you know something? We`re all getting all worked up, but the reality is, the science is going to prove what happened!
If she killed herself, then there`s just so far that she can be away from her head when she shoots the gun. If it`s him, then it`s probably going to
be a little bit more of the distance. And the spatter marks and all of the blood marks and where it was all found is going to show what actually
happened!
GRACE: Put her up. OK, Sue Moss, but as you know, when you want to win a case, you got to not only put on your case, you got to figure out
what they`re going to do, and then you`ve got to make a preemptive strike. So let`s just say we`re prosecuting this case and we know the defense is
going to argue she didn`t die from the initial wound, that she walked around the house...
MOSS: Made herself a cup of coffee!
GRACE: ... and then -- and then that is why the pool of blood. That`s where the pool of blood comes from, after she`s walked around.
But Cevallos, look at the crime scene photos. There are smears that looks like -- it looks like maybe from fabric. That, when you`re seeing
right there, from "GMA," the original one is the spatter. Here are smears. How did she do all that, Cevallos?
CEVALLOS: Again, it goes back to the theory that if the initial wound was not immediately fatal, then she can freely move about and smear, perhaps
even the husband through contact, he himself smeared. There are many possible explanations for the smear and the spatter. And eventually, where
she succumbs is where you have the pool of blood.
GRACE: OK.
CEVALLOS: Now, remember, you have a competing theory, I have a competing theory. It`s not 50/50. If you believe he should be prosecuted,
then it has be to be beyond a reasonable doubt.
GRACE: Well, what`s going to matter...
CEVALLOS: Our job is only to raise doubt.
GRACE: ... is where, where in the head was the wound? That`s the big thing. You know, interesting, I don`t know if there was a suicide note
found. I`m finding that out right now. But what can we learn from his frantic 911 call? Take a listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Who is this? Who am I speaking to? Hello? Hello?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m right here! I`m right here!
911 OPERATOR: OK. What is your name?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My name is Conrad! She`s choking!
911 OPERATOR: She`s choking? OK, does she have a gunshot wound?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It looks like she might have a gunshot wound (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: A gunshot wound? Where is it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Baby! Baby, come on! Baby!
911 OPERATOR: OK, where`s the gun right now? Where`s the gun right now? I need you to answer my question. Where`s the gun?
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: I can help you. I need you to answer the phone and I need some information on where she`s bleeding so I can help you with that,
OK?
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Where is she bleeding?
CONRAD TRUMAN, SUSPECT: There was blood coming out of her head?
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Out of her hair? OK. Are you -- is she conscious? Is this a trailer park?
TRUMAN: No. No, it is right across from Trafalgar, please.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: It`s across from Trafalgar?
TRUMAN: There is too much blood.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK. Is the blood only coming from her head? Is this a trailer or a house?
TRUMAN: It is a house.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: It is a house?
TRUMAN: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK. Is she -- is she still breathing?
TRUMAN: I swear to God.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK. They`re on their way, they`re almost there. They`re just outside. They need to find the house, OK? OK. Are
you able to go outside?
TRUMAN: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: Lovey hubby rubs his dead wife`s feet and kisses her on the face in front of nurses and doctors at the hospital. But did he
murder her to cash in on a nearly million-dollar life insurance policy?
When asked if he had anything to do with it, he says, "No, effing chance. What good is a dead wife to me?"
To Kurt Hanson joining us tonight, breaking news and crime reporter with the "Daily Herald" at heraldextra.com.
Kurt, what -- can you shed some light? You are privy to a lot of the forensic information. What can you tell me about the crime scene, in
particular that pool of blood where cops found her lying?
KURT HANSON, BREAKING NEWS AND CRIME REPORTER, DAILY HERALD: Yes, the pool of blood, you know, the prosecutors today said that there was brain matter
in that pool of blood and going back to what was said earlier, there is no trail of blood. It is just a pool. Which makes it really hard for the
scene that she staggered to stand.
GRACE: Now let`s talk about what you just said.
With me, Kurt Hanson, breaking news and crime reporter "Daily Herald".
OK, Kurt, you said there is no trail of blood. Then I`m seeing crime scene photos where it looks like it`s smeared along the baseboards. What is
that? And then I see spatter marks from "GMA."
What is that, Kurt?
HANSON: You know, a lot the -- a lot of the evidence may be from -- they had a family dog who -- and forensics say that the dog may have gotten the
blood and they have rubbed the blood --
GRACE: OK. Wait, wait. Wait, wait.
HANSON: Or his tail may have gotten the blood and flicked some blood around.
GRACE: Are you telling me he let the dog walk through his wife`s blood?
HANSON: Yes.
GRACE: You know, I almost wish I hadn`t asked you, but unleash the lawyers. Sue Moss, David Wolf, Danny Cevallos.
All right, Cevallos, brain matter in the pool of blood. This woman did not walk anywhere. That is where she was shot. If there is brain matter, that
only happens at the moment of impact with the bullet. The brain blows up.
DANNY CEVALLOS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Nancy, when did you become a neurology expert? I`m not entirely sure that`s the case.
GRACE: That`s your answer?
CEVALLOS: Well, I don`t know that to be true. I would need a neurological expert to tell me --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: As a matter of fact --
CEVALLOS: That a piece of brain matter could end up outside of your body, a small piece, and that you could still function. There are many instances
where you have injuries to the brain and you can continue to ambulate or walk around or do stuff.
GRACE: OK. Let`s ask Doctor Gallagher about that.
Doctor Tim Gallagher, medical examiner forensic pathologist. Yes, I`m just a J.D., I`m not an M.D. but Gallagher, you are. In the pool of blood where
she`s lying is brain matter? What does that say?
DR. TIM GALLAGHER, MEDICAL EXAMINER AND FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Well, that`s not a good sign, Nancy. You know, again, it would depend on how much, but
any sign of brain matter in the pool of blood is a sign of a serious brain injury within the head. So I would, -- again, would severely doubt that
she was able to ambulate at this -- sustaining such an injury, a devastating injury.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK. Go outside, I sure have an officer there. That right -- OK, I have an officer that`s outside trying to find
you. Can you go out and find him?
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Can you go out and find him? OK, go out and get the officer so he can help you, OK? My officer is outside.
TRUMAN: Come on, baby, let`s go outside. You can do it.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK. To get help for her, I need you to let the officer know where you`re at.
TRUMAN: Come on, please. Come on.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Hello? Hello?
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK. I hear -- I hear a male, is that the officer on scene? Yes, that`s the officer. Hello?
TRUMAN: You better get the (EXPLETIVE DELETED). No, I`m not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don`t touch me.
TRUMAN: No, I`m not. That`s my wife.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: His wife. I guess it`s taking the wife.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Now to Texas. Texas citizens up in arms after Child Protective Services sends a 2-year-old little boy back to mommy. This after mommy has
been investigated four times that we know of for alleged abuse of the little baby. Relatives and friends begging for little Colton`s safety,
even going online, taking to Facebook and Twitter, posting pictures of his severe bruises.
Tonight, little Colton is dead. And we call for criminal charges, not only on mommy, but on Child Protective Services.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two-year-old Colton Turner is dead, despite multiple reports of abuse over a short life. Police is following up on one of the
abuse reports, questioned little Colton Turner`s mother, who gave different versions of what happened to her son.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You know, Pat Lalama, investigative reporter joining me, when you`ve got friends and family posting abuse pictures of bruising and
beatings said that have happened, and CPS keeps sending the baby back, you know what, whoever did that needs to go to jail. They need to rot in a
prison cell, in a cell right next to mommy.
PAT LALAMA, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Well, Nancy, here are the four caseworker visits. Here is the follow-up by the department. Fourteen
different policy violations. Let me give you an example. No follow-up, no phone calls, no photos of the child, no law enforcement involved, no timely
reports done. They even at one point downgraded the case in terms of its level of seriousness. They didn`t take any report on the child`s health
care status.
And even the department admits that they failed this child and what they have done so far is fire three people and we have a dead child.
GRACE: I want to go straight out to Doctor Charles Sophy, medical director at the L.A. County Department of Children Family Services.
Doctor Sophy --
DR. CHARLES SOPHY, DO PSYCHIATRIST/MEDICAL DIRECTOR, L.A. COUNTY DEPARTMENT OF CHILDREN & FAMILY SERVICES: Yes.
GRACE: Child Services totally dropping the ball, the baby is dead.
SOPHY: Absolutely. It`s a total -- total failure on all across the boards. I mean, even if they`re admitting the policy failures they`re
admitting, I`m sure there were others, too. But this is a huge ball to drop. This child is dead. You`re right.
GRACE: Joining me right now is Jessica Click, Colton`s caretaker. He called her Mimi. She was a second mother.
Jessica, how many times did you see this child covered in bruises?
JESSICA CLICK, COLTON TURNER`S CARETAKER: I`ve seen him covered in bruises, like, twice, and so I called CPS the first time they closed the
case. Called CPS again after I saw the pictures on Facebook of her uncles and he looked sick so I called CPS then. And then I saw Mike, like,
spanking Colton -- in front of my house like -- but it wasn`t just normal spanking, because he wet his pants. And he was only 2 years old, so I
called CPS then, too. So.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Texas citizens up in arms. Child Protective Services sends a 2- year-old little boy Colton back into a home after mommy`s investigated four times for abusing the little boy. Now Colton is dead.
Tonight, we call for CPS, Child Protective Services, to go to jail, criminal charges. They need to be in a jail cell right next to mommy.
I was just speaking with Jessica Click. This was Colton`s caretaker. You stated that you saw Mike -- is that what? The live-in boyfriend?
CLICK: Yes.
GRACE: Spanking him outside in the front yard because he, what, wet his pants?
CLICK: Yes. I even make that Meagan and I asked her if she was going to get Mike to stop, and that`s when she just looked at him and said, "All
right, Mike, that`s enough."
GRACE: That was it? That`s enough?
CLICK: Yes.
GRACE: That`s all she did?
CLICK: Yes. Yes.
GRACE: Pat Lalama, what is the cause of death, may I ask?
LALAMA: Well, at this point they`re still determining, but here`s the story that the boyfriend -- or actually Meagan, the mother, said to cops
that he hit his head -- this is from the report, hit his head on an air conditioning unit while he was being assaulted.
Fill in the blanks, Nancy. I mean seriously.
GRACE: While he was being assaulted. You mean, beaten?
LALAMA: Yes. That`s according to -- the mother tells police in the report he hit his -- they were in a motel room and had his head hit an air
conditioning unit in the course of an assault.
GRACE: She`s had so many story changes.
What are the different stories, Michael Christian?
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Has told not one, not two, but five different versions of what happened here. Originally, when
authorities were asking her about where Colton was, she said that she had sent him to a friend near Dallas. Well, when they found out that wasn`t
true, she said that he had been snatched, he`d been kidnapped from her parked vehicle.
When they found out that wasn`t true, she said she had given him to some unknown couple while she was at a fast food restaurant, gave him away.
Then finally, she said, well, he had a seizure and he had died in the -- excuse me, in the hotel room, the motel. And that`s where they decided to
bury him.
Her final version is what Pat Lalama just said, that he hit his head on an air conditioner and after that he was buried.
GRACE: Sue Moss, weigh in.
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY & CHILD ADVOCATE: You know something, CPS absolutely blew it. But I`ve got to tell you something, if you call Child
Protective Services one, two, three, four times and you`re not seeing any results, that`s the time you have to go to the police. They had evidence
of pictures. They had evidence of eyewitnesses who saw the beatings.
That`s the time you take the whole family and you march into the police station, because at the end of the day, that`s what happened in this case,
and it was only then that the wheels of justice started to turn.
GRACE: Everyone, more on Colton as we seek justice on his behalf. But now, CNN Heroes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chicken nuggets, French fries, mustard and a milkshake. My daddy ordered the same thing as me. That is my daddy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My son`s father, he was murdered. Their bond was just a bond that a lot of kids don`t have with their father.
ANNETTE MARCH-GRIER, CNN HERO: I love my city. I have lived here all of my life. But people here are having crisis after crisis. I believe that
the violence in this city and grief are directly connected.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I feel sad that somebody hurt my dad.
MARCH-GRIER: A child`s grief can be very different from adults. They can easily lose their identity and their security. And that shift can be very
dangerous.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There you go. Write your feelings. How are you feeling today?
MARCH-GRIER: Our program provides that safe place for a child to recover.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello. How are you doing?
MARCH-GRIER: Our volunteers help the children explore their feelings.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why did you choose red?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was angry when my dad passed away.
MARCH-GRIER: And talk about healthy ways of coping.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Get that anger out.
MARCH-GRIER: We teach our children that it`s OK to cry.
His brother died so he`s feeling very, very sad.
Grief is truly a public health problem. We have got to begin to address it.
Coping is how we deal with our feelings.
We`re giving families a sense of hope.
MARCH-GRIER: We`re helping to heal wounds and bring families back together again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: A little 2-year-old boy is dead. This after Child Protective Services investigated mommy four times for abusing this child.
Let`s take a look at mommy. Here`s some shots we found -- OK. That`s mommy. Right now charged with -- and there`s mommy again. OK, enough with
the bikini photos, but thanks. I thought you were going to show me some loving pictures of her with her son. Instead, I get bikini photos with
some kind of a sling on the bottom.
Jessica Click is Colton`s caretaker.
Jessica, why do you feel betrayed not once but twice?
CLICK: Well, I mean, she made me really -- Meagan really made me believe that Colton was still alive. Like, that was my best friend, that was --
she was supposed to be the one friend that I could trust completely, and, you know, just she come -- she did so much stuff to make me believe that
Colton was still alive so --
GRACE: Didn`t she plan his third birthday party after he was dead?
CLICK: Yes. She kept saying he wants to go to Six Flags. And I was kind of thinking, well, he`s a little bit too young for it, but I`m not going to
argue with her. She asked me if I wanted to go. And I said yes, of course I do. And she would act like she`s having conversations on the phone with
Colton. But she would never let me talk to him. And she always say he had to go, Lori is taking him swimming or something.
GRACE: What do you mean, she would have conversations with Colton while you were on the phone?
CLICK: Her, while she would act like she was talking to Colton on the phone.
GRACE: Say what? What did she say?
CLICK: She would just sit there and talk in her little baby voice and say, I love you, too, Colton. Like, just saying, are you having fun? And like
a normal conversation. Like I had no idea whatsoever. It sounded normal to me. I mean ---
GRACE: So mommy -- do you think mommy is the one who abused him or the boyfriend, and mommy stand by and let the boyfriend or did they both abuse
the child?
CLICK: Honestly, I know -- I`ve seen Mike spank Colton. I`ve never seen Meagan really hit Colton, but only mainly because she never really had him.
So --
GRACE: The child`s body is found in a shallow grave. Friends and relatives posting pictures of his bruises and cuts, begging for justice.
Well, justice didn`t come. But you know what? Justice can come now. We want not only mommy and her live-in behind bars, but criminal charges on
Child Protective Services.
Let`s remember American hero, Army Private 1st Class James White, Jr., Huber Heights, Ohio. National Defense Service Medal, Army Service Ribbon,
loved computers and video games. Parents Robin and James, Sr., three sisters. Just 19.
James White, Jr., American hero.
And tonight, a special good night from one of our stars, Gillian, and pink is definitely her color.
Drew up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.
END
