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Nancy Grace
Arias Calls, E-mails Alexander After He`s Dead
Aired October 27, 2014 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. We are live at the Phoenix courthouse. Bombshell tonight. The jury is stunned when evidence comes in
Jodi Arias calls, e-mails and texts Travis Alexander even after he`s dead!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JODI ARIAS, CONVICTED OF MURDER: We were intimate, but I wouldn`t say romantic.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know you took pictures of him in the shower just before he died.
ARIAS: I don`t think he would allow that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the camera actually took a couple of photos by accident during the time he was being killed.
ARIAS: Really?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We found this camera, and you know, it`s pretty much ruined. And we don`t know why.
ARIAS: Oh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
ARIAS: How many times was Travis stabbed?
I`m all for the 10 Commandments, "Thou shall not kill."
Travis was screaming the whole time!
All right, let me know. And I`ll talk to you soon. `Bye.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, reality TV child star Honey Boo-Boo`s mother allegedly dating a convicted child molester?
Good evening. Thank you for being with us. I`m Nancy Grace, and we are live, camped outside the Phoenix courthouse for the Jodi Arias death
penalty retrial.
Today, the jury in clear shock, wide-mouthed as evidence came in that Jodi Arias actually calls, texts and e-mails Travis Alexander even after
he`s dead.
And just get this visual, this mental visual. We know, and the jury will soon know, that Jodi Arias, after slaughtering Travis Alexander, is
driving through the desert to her next boyfriend. She says that the blood -- Travis Alexander`s blood -- is still dried under her nails, on her body,
where she slaughtered him, and she`s calling him on the phone, leaving him voicemails. She`s texting him -- Hi, honey. He`s dead!
Straight out to Jean Casarez, CNN correspondent, intimately familiar with the case. Everybody, we`re live at the courthouse. Jean, what
happened?
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the first thing is, her phone was turned off as she was driving to and driving from Travis`s home. But
about an hour-and-a-half out of town, she turned that phone on. And right before midnight the day that she admits now that she murdered him, she
sends an e-mail saying -- or she sends a phone voice message saying, Oh, gee, I`m lost, and if you were here, I wouldn`t be lost. But you know
what? In July, we`re going to go see Shakespeare, and how about us taking a trip down the Crater Lake area and the coast area? We`re going to have a
great time. So the state of mind is, You`re alive, I`m going to see you soon.
GRACE: You know, Jean, think about it. As she`s, you know, what, I guess got an iPhone, and she`s texting -- you know, you have to see your
fingers when you`re texting. And her hands were literally covered, up under her nails, his dried blood from where she just murdered him. And
she`s texting him, I guess to conceal, to cover up her tracks.
CASAREZ: That`s right. And remember, she got out of her car near Hoover Dam and may have cleaned herself off a little bit. But the e-mails
-- let`s go on to the e-mails because they`re a little inconsistent there. She asks him, Did you get the check? Are you going to deposit the check
for the car? She was making payments to him for a car.
GRACE: You`re right, Jean. Hey, let`s go in the courtroom and hear what the jury hears.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS: Anyway, right about the time you`re starting to gear up, I know Leslie called you. I already talked to her, so you can call her back
if you want, but it`s not necessary. My phone died, so I wasn`t getting back to anybody.
And what else? Oh, and I drove 100 miles in the wrong direction, over 100 miles, thank you very much. So yes, remember New Mexico? It was a lot
like that, only worse. You weren`t here to prevent me from going into the three digits. So fun, fun. Tell you all about that later.
Also, we were talking about -- when we were talking about your upcoming travels my way, I was looking at the May calendar. Duh. So I`m
all confused. But Heather and I are going to see "Othello" on July 1st, and we would love for you to accompany us. I don`t know when Team Freedom
(INAUDIBLE). But you know, it`s on the list. So we could do -- we could do Shakespeare, Crater Lake and the coast. So if you can make it -- if
not, we`ll just do the coast and Crater Lake. But let me know. And I will talk to you soon. `Bye.
END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And Jean, that`s just as the jury has just heard that same voicemail that she leaves him, dialing those numbers with her fingernails
caked in his blood.
Jean, you were telling us about an e-mail. Tell us about it, Jean. The e-mail that came into court in the last hour, the jury was sitting
there staring straight at Arias. Let`s show a picture, Liz. What happened, Jean, with the e-mail?
CASAREZ: E-mail three days later, e-mail saying, number one, Did you deposit the check for the car that I sent you? And the check was from May
25th. Number two, she says, I`m so sorry I didn`t come and visit you. Are you still mad at me because I didn`t come and visit you? Complete
inconsistency there. And saying that, I know you`re going to Cancun, but I might come to visit you in the weeks after that. So consistent state of
mind that he`s alive.
GRACE: Straight out to Mike Duffy joining us at the courthouse. Mike Duffy, there were several moments in court -- for those of you just joining
us, we are live at the Phoenix courthouse, in the Jodi Arias death penalty retrial, the jury clearly stunned in court today as evidence pours from the
witness stand. Mike Duffy, what happened?
MIKE DUFFY, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, we basically heard quite a bit from Detective Flores, and he was telling us -- he was laying
(ph) out Jodi Arias`s inconsistencies as her story developed and developed, and then disintegrated completely.
GRACE: What were the moments that you noticed, Mike Duffy, where the jury looked so surprised, and they would look over at Arias and then look
back?
DUFFY: Well, I think that one of the biggest points of the day was when Detective Flores was talking about the scene, and he said it was so
violent and so horrific that someone who did this must have hated Travis Alexander. The jury definitely took that into consideration, and looked
over at Arias, and Arias just tried to hold her head down and not pay attention.
GRACE: OK, everybody, we`re going to show you now, as the jury is hearing it, the same interrogation tapes. They just started with that.
Take a look -- Jodi Arias interrogation tapes. What do we learn?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your image is not important right now. Saving the rest of your life is.
ARIAS: Listen, if I`m found guilty, I don`t have a life. I`m not guilty. I didn`t hurt Travis. If I hurt Travis, if I killed Travis, I
would beg for the death penalty.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You need to think about what you`re saying. This continuing to lie is not going to help you.
ARIAS: Admitting to something I didn`t do won`t help me, either. OK, let`s say for a second that I did and I say I did it, I mean...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The motive is there, the jealousy issue.
ARIAS: But I wasn`t -- I wouldn`t even say I was jealous. I mean, there may have been some jealousy there, but...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then what is it? What caused this?
ARIAS: I think if -- you know, if anyone, maybe Travis was jealous. But...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s not what everybody else says. Well, they know he was jealous, but they think that you were absolutely obsessed.
"Obsessed" is the word that they use. That`s the word I hear from everybody. "Fatal Attraction" -- I don`t know how many times I`ve heard
that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: With me is Kinsey Schofield, blogger, strategist, in court today. You can find her at Kinseyschofield.com. Kinsey, several times,
the jury was just stunned, overwhelmed, looking over at Arias, then they would look back at Martinez. A big fight ensued about whether video was
going to come in. What did you notice the jury doing, Kinsey?
KINSEY SCHOFIELD, BLOGGER: Well, I will tell you that it -- it`s surprising to see them with their jaws dropped. I did not see those
visuals from the last jury. This jury knows she`s guilty of it, and it`s literally their job just to determine whether she lives or dies. And you
see that in the notes that they`re taking.
For instance, one man that`s in the back row that`s very pensive, always has his hand on his chin -- I saw him take notes every time Jodi
told Detective Flores that she was not there, that she did not kill Travis, almost as if he was making tally marks of how many times she lied to him
about that specific instance.
So the jury`s very engaged. I see another juror that desperately tries to get any sort of reaction from Jodi and/or her family, and they are
completely emotionless. So they`re very engaged, and they are willing to express themselves on the stand, which is interesting to see as a
spectator.
GRACE: OK, with me is Kinsey Schofield. Kinsey, I want to talk about what you just said. Martinez very wisely goes from bringing in this
voicemail that she leaves, knowing he`s dead. There were a couple of them, e-mails and so forth, that she sends even though she just killed him.
Then he transitions into this interrogation tape. Now, they already know that she did it. And you`re telling me that one of the jurors is,
like, counting off every time she starts with a story that she wasn`t even there. Now, this is long before we get to self-defense, OK? She started
with, I wasn`t there. That`s how the whole thing started. So he was actually -- which juror did you see do that? Was it a man or a woman? A
man?
SCHOFIELD: It`s a male with a mustache in the very back row.
GRACE: I know exactly which one you`re talking about. Yes, he does what you just did a lot. I saw him in court. He`d look, then he`d sit
back, and he`d come back up. So he`s marking every time he catches her in a lie, right? That`s what he`s doing.
SCHOFIELD: Almost. I mean, that`s got to be what it is because his pen meets the paper every time a lie is told. And she`s a blatant liar.
She doesn`t tell small lies. She tells blatant lies.
GRACE: Big ones. And you know, Kinsey, she stuck with that story that she wasn`t there. And if it hadn`t come out about all those darn gas
cans, she may have actually pulled it off. But when you`ve got her buying gallons and gallons of gas, carrying it across state lines so nobody knows
she`s in Arizona to go kill Travis...
SCHOFIELD: Right...
(CROSSTALK)
SCHOFIELD: ... putting her license plate upside down. It`s forever (ph). She did so many things. And it`s -- Juan is not just trying to
prove premeditation. Juan is saying, This woman is evil and this woman does not deserve to live another day on this planet.
GRACE: So Matt Zarrell, we know and the jury learned today in the last hours -- let`s see that interrogation video, Liz -- that she starts
her story with, I wasn`t even there. Is that where we started early this morning, Matt?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Yes.
GRACE: OK. Let`s roll it, Liz.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You were at Travis`s house. You guys have a sexual encounter, which -- there`s pictures. And I know you know there`s
pictures because I have them. I will show them to you, OK? So what I`m asking you is for you to be honest with me. I know you were there.
ARIAS: Are you sure those pictures aren`t from another time?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Positive. Absolutely positive.
ARIAS: The last time I had any kind of sexual contact with Travis was in April.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know you took pictures of him in the shower just before he died.
ARIAS: I don`t think he would allow that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the camera actually took a couple of photos by accident during the time he was being killed.
ARIAS: Really?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, Jodi, really. You were there. Quit playing this game. It`s time for you to just come out and tell me.
ARIAS: I did not. I am -- I did not hurt Travis. I did not hurt Travis. I wouldn`t do that to him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS: I grabbed the gun, and I turned around and pointed it at him so that he would stop chasing me. As he was lunging at me, the gun went
off. I didn`t mean to shoot him or anything. I didn`t even think I was holding the trigger.
He said, I`ll (EXPLETIVE DELETED) kill you, bitch. No memory of stabbing him. I just couldn`t believe what had happened and that I
couldn`t take anything back. I couldn`t rewind the clock. I thought he was not alive. I wish that it was just a nightmare that I could wake up
from.
I couldn`t imagine calling 911. I just wanted to die. I wanted to kill myself. But I also knew if I don`t kill myself, I`d be arrested, so
it`s one or the other.
I began to tell him things that I thought would comport with what the forensics would show. I was very ashamed of what had happened.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are live at the Phoenix courthouse, bringing you the Jodi Arias death penalty retrial. Today, the jury visually stunned at evidence
as it poured from the witness stand, including the interrogation tapes. Now, remember, for the longest time Arias, insists she wasn`t even at the
same -- roll it, Liz, please.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know what to tell you. If you were in my shoes and I had this evidence against -- against you, what would you say?
ARIAS: If I had that evidence against you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
ARIAS: It would be pretty obvious. But I guess being in my position, it just seems so impossible. I`d want to see it. I`d want to know. I
mean, I`m not, like -- I`m not a murderer, but I guess if I were to do that, I would wear gloves, or you know, something. I just -- how could --
I don`t know.
ARIAS: You should have at least done your makeup, Jodi girl. (singing) It might change my memory...
Goodness!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK, there`s Arias doing a handstand while she`s being interrogated for the murder of her lover, Travis Alexander.
We are live and taking your calls. I want to go back out to Kinsey Schofield. Now, how is the jury reacting as they are seeing this
interrogation tape?
SCHOFIELD: I think that they`re physically uncomfortable because they know that Jodi Arias`s behavior is unacceptable. It`s not normal. And it
concerns me that maybe she could come back and say, Look, I`m a little emotionally unstable or mentally unstable, and just based on their body
language, they would buy that. And I don`t think she`s crazy, I just think she`s evil.
GRACE: You know, Jean Casarez, she goes on and on for hours in interrogation insisting she`s not there. Finally, she comes up with the
ninja story, Jean.
CASAREZ: Oh, yes, the intruder story. That`s right. You know, I remember sitting in that courtroom, and all of this video came so fast and
furious, and it`s a lot to comprehend in a very short period of time -- but when they got to the ninja (ph) part of it, it`s where there were intruders
and she was held at gunpoint and she was able to get free and she ran for her life.
GRACE: OK, everybody. Back into the same interrogation tape in the courtroom. Let`s see it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know who they are if you`re telling me the truth.
ARIAS: I don`t know them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t believe you, either. And I can`t. You can`t expect me to. Why would they do this to him? What were they arguing
about? What did they say, their details?
ARIAS: They didn`t say a lot. They were white Americans, from what I could tell. They had -- what do you call those things? They`re like
beanies, but they cover your whole face. They`ve got holes for your nose or your mouth and your eyes. And they were -- one was black. I think they
were both black or dark blue or something.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining me, Jason Lamm, also at the courthouse, Kirby Clements, defense attorney, Atlanta, Taryn Brown, defense
attorney, New York.
OK, first to you, Jason Lamm. Ninjas? White males? A beanie?
JASON LAMM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Follow closely, Nancy. Jodi Arias is a liar. It is not breaking news. However, she has the ability to get some
degree of redemption if during her allocution, she can say, You know what? I did all this. If she actually gets honest and begs for her life, she
won`t get a pass, she won`t be forgiven, but she has a chance to spare her own life.
Will she do it? I seriously doubt it. But clearly, the prosecution is painting her as a liar, but Jodi Arias may be the one who can save her
own life later in this case.
GRACE: OK, Taryn, give me your best shot. Ninjas?
TARYN BROWN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Jodi`s -- her actions just have been consistent with her being a liar, someone who`s deceitful, someone who just
could care less about anyone else`s life except for her own. And therefore, she`ll say anything and will do anything to protect herself at
the expense of anyone.
GRACE: Well, I couldn`t agree with you more. OK, Kirby Clements, how is this helping her? We know how it`s hurting her because you just heard
Kinsey Schofield say there`s at least one juror -- and I know exactly which one he is. He marks every time that she`s lying, though the whole hours
that came in of the interrogation tape, where she`s saying she wasn`t there.
Then they show her the sex photos. It`s her, Kirby. She`s totally naked. And she goes, That doesn`t really look like me. OK, then they show
her her foot, which accidentally got into one of the photos. That`s her. During the actual murder itself, the digital camera actually took a photo
of her foot. And she said, yes, that`s just not my foot. And they found her pants. There you go. These pants were found in her drawer.
Now, Kirby, all these hours she spends in interrogation telling the interrogator, the police officer, I wasn`t there, and No, those naked
photos must have been taken at a different time, once she agrees they`re really her, and then she comes up with the ninja story. I don`t see
there`s any way out, Kirby, for her.
KIRBY CLEMENTS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, there`s no way out from being found not guilty of the murder because she`s already been convicted of
that.
GRACE: Yes.
CLEMENTS: And we know she`s killed him. So the prosecution`s rehashing that. But if you look at this video, you clearly see a mentally
disturbed woman. She`s doing a handstand. She`s laughing and talking to herself. She`s talking about getting her hair done, or she should have
gotten her hair done properly. She`s making those crazy phone calls. This woman is mentally disturbed, and that`s going to save her life.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he ever use phrases with you like "You`re the ultimate slut in bed"?
ARIAS: No.
JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: You know, (INAUDIBLE) did use that language with regard to somebody else. Do you know what the other person`s
participation may have been?
ARIAS: No, I don`t.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he ever call you a whore?
ARIAS: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A slut?
ARIAS: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A three-hole wonder?
ARIAS: No.
MARTINEZ: Do you know anything about his sexual activities and whether or not the defendant was participating in these sexual activities
with him?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Sex, lies and murder. We are live at the Phoenix courthouse, bringing you the latest Jodi Arias death penalty retrial. Today, jurors
visibly shocked at Jodi Arias`s statements under interrogation. Big fight at the get-go this morning about whether video would come in, in front of
the jury. Ultimately, interrogation video did come in before the jurors.
Unleash the lawyers. Jason Lam, Kirby Clements, Taryn Brown. You know, Kirby, so often in court the defense will be, oh, well, you know, you
don`t have it on video. Well, this time the state does have her different stories on video. I imagine when you first started practicing, all of the
statements were not even recorded. Very often somebody would be typing when they took down a suspect`s statement. Those are tough to fight in
court. Then, slowly, we started getting audio recordings of statements. And now it really is on video. There`s just so much a defense attorney can
do with that, Kirby. She`s on video.
CLEMENTS: Video, I tell people all the time, it will make your case or it will break your case. And when you`ve got your client on video
confessing or denying stuff that is obviously the opposite and doing this stuff here like a handstand, you`re sometimes -- you`re stuck with the hand
you`re dealt and you`re oftentimes left more so begging than you are putting on any legal argument, because there`s no legal argument. They`re
saying it there. You`ve given them their rights on video. Everything is clean.
GRACE: Another thing out to Mike Duffy standing by at the courthouse joining us from Phoenix. Mike, I understand another juror may be in hot
water. Was another juror questioned by the judge today?
DUFFY: Yes, Nancy. This was a major development just before we broke for lunch today. For some reason I had been paying attention to this juror
all day. He seemed different. While the rest of the jury was captivated, he seemed looking off. He just seemed odd. And then right before we broke
for lunch, the judge dismissed everyone from the courtroom except for this juror. None of us were even allowed to hear what was going on.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The defense calls Jodi Arias.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you solemnly swear the testimony you`re about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so
help you god?
ARIAS: Yes, I do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you kill Travis Alexander on June 4th, 2008?
ARIAS: Yes, I did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why?
ARIAS: The simple answer is that he attacked me. And I defended myself.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You said that no jury would convict you.
ARIAS: At the time I had plans to commit suicide. So I was extremely confident that no jury would convict me because I didn`t expect any of you
to be here. I didn`t expect to be here. So I could have easily said no jury would acquit me either. So I was very confident that no jury would
convict me because I planned to be dead. Probably the most bitter words I`ll ever eat.
My dad started using a belt. My mom began to carry a wooden spoon in her purse.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back, everyone. We are live for the Jodi Arias death penalty retrial. Camped outside the Phoenix courthouse. Joining me right
now is a very dear friend of Travis Alexander, Julie Christopher is joining us tonight. Julie, thank you for being with us.
JULIE CHRISTOPHER, FRIEND: Thank you.
GRACE: Julie, I remember when the whole case cracked wide open and Travis`s body was found in his own shower. Can you believe we`re at this
point now today with Arias fighting the case yet again in court?
CHRISTOPHER: It`s a torture to all of us to see this, because this is someone that I had -- and my last words to him were I love you as a friend,
I love you, and then I heard ten days later that he was murdered. And I knew it was Jodi, had no doubt in my soul, in my heart. But I tell you, if
you have met Jodi, you would know what I`m saying, but you`ve met someone without a soul. You would actually look at her, and she is someone with
absolutely no emotion in her eyes. This is someone who had no soul. So it surprises me, and yet it doesn`t because evil can do this. Mentally sick
can do something else. But this is not mentally sick. Although she`s going to play that because there`s no other game that she can play now.
However, abused? No. She`s playing that game again. So you know, I mean, she slashes Travis`s tires, you know, a few days before the murder.
So who`s abused? I`m not sure. But certainly not her. I`ve never seen her being abused or looked abused. You know, she`s always been playing,
you know, the role model standing in the front of the room so everybody can look at her and taking pictures of Travis. Completely obsessed with
Travis.
And I`ll tell you what, Nancy, in my heart and my soul I know she was after Travis since the day she met him. Okay? If she was after him
because he was successful, because he was in the spotlight, she never loved Travis. She always hated Travis, because she always wanted what Travis
had. So now she kills him over and over and over again. The first time she killed him, that`s not enough for her. That`s why she texted. That`s
why she e-mailed. That`s why she did all these things, because for her the hate is not over. So each time she had something to do, it`s another way
for her to kill him all over again. Okay? So it`s really deep. It`s not just fatal attraction, oh, I love him, and he went and see another girl.
This is someone who was after him from day one. She wanted, you know, to be the one to write the book and be loved by many, which he was, because he
was all love and light. Okay? And she found him very vulnerable. He was a young man. So like every other young men, yes, vulnerable, you know,
with sex. And that`s how she found his vulnerability, and she found -- you know, she manipulated him with that. That was it. There was no
relationship there. There was no love.
GRACE: With me is Julie Christopher, a very dear friend of Travis Alexander. You`re seeing shots of Jodi Arias. We are live at the
courthouse for the Jodi Arias death penalty retrial.
Judy, you -- Julie, you told me that the moment you heard, you discovered that Travis Alexander was dead, you knew immediately Jodi Arias
was responsible. Why do you say that?
CHRISTOPHER: Yes, ma`am. You know, it`s a feeling. I just have that feeling that you know in your guts that`s the truth. Okay? I was standing
outside. We were waiting for Travis. And no Travis. So we started calling around. We found out, you know, what happened. And my business
partner and my husband were next to me. And as soon as they said to me Travis is dead, I -- not even a second later I said it`s Jodi. My body
knew it, I knew it, my mind knew it. I had absolutely no doubt because from the day that, you know, she was acting very odd. This is someone who
was calculating all of her moves from the hair to the makeup, the way she was sitting down. Very odd. You know, she was not socializing with
anybody. Always like a little outsider. You know, like oh, feel sorry for me. You know, like -- you just know that someone like that is just -- it
was -- she was just not -- almost half human and half, you know, something else.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Welcome back. Reality TV child star Honey Boo Boo, her mother allegedly dating a convicted child molester?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Here comes Honey Boo Boo.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Lots and lots and lots.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you sitting? Has been canceled.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (inaudible) she likes to get down and dirty.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Reportedly because Mama June, Shannon, is dating a registered sex offender.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shannon has denied she`s seeing McDaniel (ph).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Okay. Straight out to writer with "People" magazine Steve Helling joining us. Steve, what`s going on? We`ve all believed as much as
many people in the country like to mock Honey Boo Boo`s family, which I personally disagree with, all along, the mother has claimed she`s saving
all the money for their college. You never hear of domestic incidents. Nobody`s out DUI, fighting with cops. All the children are in school,
minding their own business. The mother, Mama June, dating a convicted child molester? What do you know?
STEVE HELLING, PEOPLE MAGAZINE: And this isn`t just any child molester, Nancy. This is the very man who molested her oldest daughter and
spent ten years in jail for that particular crime.
GRACE: Hold on just a moment.
HELLING: He got out of jail --
GRACE: Steve, I`m showing the picture right now of Mark Anthony McDaniel, convicted in 2004 of aggravated child molestation. Now, Steve, I
understand that this is a guy right here that Mama June is apparently seeing again. But Steve Helling, is this the guy that molested the older
daughter, Anna, also known as Chickadee (ph)?
HELLING: That is exactly what Anna told us in an interview, that she came forward -- because we weren`t going to name the victim. And she came
forward and said no, I want people to know, I was the victim in this case, and now my mother is dating the very man who molested me when I was a year
younger than Honey Boo Boo.
GRACE: Because that would have been -- everybody, you`re seeing photos from TMZ of June Shannon, also known as Mama June. It appears to be
convicted child molester Mark Anthony McDaniel. I don`t know when these photos were taken. The reporting that goes along with them says that they
are recent photos. I don`t know that. But I do know that that`s McDaniels. I can look at him and can see that. That`s Mama June Shannon
right there. And I know she has full custody, physical custody, of Honey Boo Boo. And if what you`re telling me, Steve Helling, is correct, that
means that he would have molested the older daughter, Anna, when she was 8.
Now, you`re saying Anna has come forward and said she was the child victim that was molested. All right. That`s the same age as Honey Boo
Boo. She just turned 9 in August, right?
HELLING: Exactly. We don`t know exactly when those pictures were taken, but we know he was in jail until March of this year. So these
pictures had to have been taken in the past few months.
So, you know, it`s obvious that they are back together. She said on Facebook oh, no, no, I would never do that. But these pictures don`t lie.
She is spending time with him. And there have been pictures of them together with Honey Boo Boo. So it`s actually a very alarming thing. This
isn`t funny.
GRACE: Wait, wait, there`s video from TLC, who promptly canceled the show. What do you mean there are photos of this child molester with Honey
Boo Boo?
HELLING: Yes, some photos have been released and have been surfacing on the web of the family -- of Momma June and Honey Boo Boo and this guy
sitting on a staircase, with his hand on Honey Boo Boo`s back.
GRACE: How do you know that`s him in the photo?
HELLING: Well, okay, Nancy, I have not legally authenticated it. If I were testifying in a court of law, you`re right.
GRACE: I mean, it looks like him.
HELLING: A man who looks very much like Mark McDaniel.
GRACE: I`ve seen the photo. It looks like him. Straight out to Marc Klaas. President and founder of KlaasKids foundation. Marc, listen, under
our Constitution, she can date or be with anybody she wants to. Under the right to associate, freedom of association. It`s called freedom of
assembly in the Constitution. But long story short, Marc Klaas, I guarantee you, DEFACS is going to find out about this. Department of
Family and Children Services. Bringing a known, registered child sex offender that molested your other daughter, according to that daughter?
KLAAS: It`s so incredibly sordid, Nancy. How many times on this show have we asked the question, had she only known that she had married a sex
offender, would that have somehow protected her children? Well, we`re not asking that question in retrospect, we already know the answers. If in
fact she is dating this guy, he is a known sexual molester. He molested her other daughter. She`s thrown her daughter under the bus. She`s thrown
all of her children under the bus. She seems to be putting her own needs ahead of the needs of her children. If that`s the case, these children
need to be removed and placed in a safe environment. Most likely with their father.
GRACE: To Dr. Michelle Dupre, medical examiner, forensic pathologist. Dr. Dupre, I know that you`ve had to do so many exams on children. And
very often when they speak, you have to kind of unlock their testimony to determine what happened. But in this case, we don`t have to do that
because the little girl that was 8 years old at the time of the molestation, she`s 20 or so now. She can speak on her own. What
difficulty do you encounter when you`re trying to do an exam on the child?
DUPRE: Most of the time, it`s going to depend on the age of the child and it`s going to depend on what that child has actually disclosed or not.
Many times we don`t find physical evidence. Many times we do a physical examination and we do a sexual assault examination in the context of a
regular exam, to make the child more comfortable. We also use a technique called forensic (inaudible) which is extremely helpful for children in this
situation. They`re trained interviewers who know how to talk to children about this type of subject.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She loves to be all glammed up.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: According to several media sources, Momma June`s new boyfriend is a registered sex offender.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Steve Helling, writer with "People" magazine. So what now? I mean, is Momma June agreed to stop seeing this guy? She`s
waiting for DEFACS to take her children away? What`s happening?
HELLING: It`s hard to get her to say she`ll stop dating him when she won`t even admit that she is. Right now, people are looking into it.
Obviously, you know, TLC has reached out to the family for counseling. We don`t know what`s happening. We`ll see.
GRACE: You are seeing photos from TMZ of June Shannon with what appears to be convicted child molester Mark McDaniel. We don`t know when
the photos were taken, but he just got out of jail in March. To Greg Cason, psychologist. And I`m not a shrink, you are, all my years of
prosecuting, child molesters cannot be rehabilitated. That`s my experience. They can`t.
CASON: And that seems to be the case, Nancy. There`s actually a controversy in the field that some people consider this a sexual
orientation, thus it would be unchangeable, versus just a sexual fetish or preference. So your inclination is probably right on track with what the
research is saying.
GRACE: And what that means is that Honey Boo Boo, who has just turned 9 years old, is the same age of the girl that we know by her statement, he
molested that sent him to jail. Wake up, Momma June, please, smell the coffee. Get rid of this guy. Nobody, no man is worth losing your children
over.
Let`s stop and remember American hero Army Staff Sergeant Robert White, 34, Cross Lanes, West Virginia. Meritorious Service Medal, Army
Achievement Medal. Parents Dan and Shirley, two brothers, two sisters, widow Cathy, son Zachary. Robert White, American hero. Drew up next.
I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.
END
