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Nancy Grace
New Mother Killed by Mystery SUV
Aired November 11, 2014 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Danbury. A gorgeous young mom of 9-week-old baby boy leaves a local cafe en route back home,
Mommy mowed down dead by a dark SUV in a mystery hit-and-run.
Bombshell tonight. At this hour, no leads on that driver, the driver that hits and kills Mommy. As her family prepares for a funeral, we want
to catch her killer. And as we go to air tonight, we confirm a second female victim just mowed down by a dark-colored mystery SUV. Is there a
connection?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Only 23 years old, Rachel Sack. Police say she was struck by a dark SUV and the driver took off. She just had a baby,
left for dead, helpless by the side of the road.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Leaving her there like a bag of garbage.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re angry. We want to find out who did this to her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And to Port Orange. A neighborhood stunned when it`s revealed a young mom of two toddlers allegedly force-feeds both babies deadly toilet
bowl cleaner with a sippy cup.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because they`re babies.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say this woman, 29-year-old Amelia West (ph), tried to kill herself and her two young children by forcing them to
drink toilet bowl cleaner.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. A gorgeous young mom of a 9-week-old baby boy leaves a local cafe en route back home, Mommy mowed down dead by a dark SUV
in a mystery hit-and-run. At this hour, no leads on the driver that kills Mommy. As her family prepares for a funeral, we want to catch her killer.
And as we go to air tonight, we just learn that we can confirm a second female victim also mowed down by a dark-colored mystery SUV. Is
there a connection? Both women similar in looks, both women in the same small Danbury community, both women on foot, both mowed down by a mystery
dark SUV. Who is targeting this -- these women?
Straight out to Vinnie Penn, host of "The Vinnie Penn Project" at WELI. Vinnie, thank you for being with us. What can you tell me about the
young mom of the 9-week-old baby boy?
VINNIE PENN, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST, WELI (via telephone): Well, first of all, thanks for having me on, Nancy. I can tell you that this young
lady`s beloved. A colleague of mine just informed me earlier that the reward that`s being offered, which is really just to encourage witnesses of
the accident to come forward, has been cobbled together by co-workers of hers. So this is -- these are co-workers rallying around and demanding an
answer here.
She was a very fit young lady, very adventurous young lady. Danbury is known for the Danbury Fair. It`s cornfields and tractors. You know, a
street lamp is as hard to come by as a Republican is in Connecticut. So this walk home, I think, was walking off some baby weight and in a very
dimly lit part of Connecticut.
GRACE: Well, I`m just sick about it. The 9-week-old baby boy is left without a mother. And at this hour, her family, instead of celebrating the
birth of her newborn, is planning Mommy`s funeral.
Take a look at this gorgeous young mother of a the 9-week-old baby boy, Mommy leaving a local cafe, headed back home on foot, as Vinnie just
says, walking off that baby weight, when out of nowhere, a mystery SUV, a dark-colored SUV plows into Mommy and keeps going like it never even
happened, leaving her there on the road like trash! And now, to add to the mystery, we learn a second woman also mowed down by a mystery dark-colored
SUV, left for dead.
Clark Goldband, what more can you tell me about the night the first mom, Rachel Sack, is mowed down dead?
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, I can tell you that she gave birth about 9 weeks ago to a healthy baby boy, a boy she
loved for and cared for and loved a ton. And what happened was, she was out having a bite to eat at a cafe with the father of the baby and some
friend, based on what we`ve heard.
And after that was done, the home not too far away, Rachel decided to take a stroll back. As she was taking that stroll, folks -- you see it on
your screen -- a hit-and-run as an SUV, a large SUV, barrels down and strikes the 23-year-old dead on the street! And this...
GRACE: Well, what`s so amazing to me, Clark, is it keeps going...
GOLDBAND: Yes!
GRACE: ... like it didn`t know what happened.
GOLDBAND: Yes.
GRACE: It just takes off and leaves her there to die. And what`s so amazing -- joining me right now in addition to Vinnie Penn from WELI is
Bart Busterna, radio host at WLAD. Bart, thanks for being with us. Two women in the exact circumstances, both on foot, plowed down, mowed down by
this dark SUV that seemingly is stalking Danbury. What do you know, Bart?
BART BUSTERNA, RADIO HOST, WLAD (via telephone): Well, there`s no way really to draw lines between the two particular accidents. What we can
tell you is that there have been a rash of hit-and-runs lately in the area, and not always a dark SUV involved. At least in one particular case, a
driver did turn themselves in to the police. But the SUVs...
GRACE: OK, what I`m trying to figure out tonight, Bart, is who mowed these two women down? Who mowed them down and took off as if nothing
happened. Hold on. I`m hearing in my ear, joining me right now is Rusty Haight, the director of the Collision Safety Institute, an accident
reconstruction expert.
Rusty, you have analyzed this, the case with the 23-year-old mom is mowed down. It`s a mystery SUV, dark in color. And we learn that within
just 48 hours, maybe 24, a dark-colored SUV mows down another woman. So I don`t understand what`s going on.
But Rusty, you have analyzed it. What have you learned?
RUSTY HAIGHT, ACCIDENT RECONSTRUCTION EXPERT (via telephone): Well, hi, Nancy. It`s -- it`s -- there is a shocking coincidence here, and it`s
not unheard of to have a serial hit-and-run driver. There was a very famous case in Australia dating back to the `60s, a guy ran over I want to
say upwards of 10 or 12 women walking alone on the street in Perth, Australia, and it became a very sensational case out there in western
Australia at the time.
GRACE: But...
HAIGHT: So it`s not unheard of...
GRACE: But I don`t understand it, Rusty...
HAIGHT: ... that people would do that sort of thing.
GRACE: Rusty, I don`t understand the thrill that somebody would get of coming up on a defenseless woman, in this case, a brand-new mom walking
home on foot, minding her own business -- I don`t understand the thrill you get from mowing her down, hearing the thud as your SUV hits her, then goes
over her body like a speed bump. But you`re saying that kind of killer does exist.
What can you tell us about this case, Rusty? What are your thoughts?
HAIGHT: Well, we have seen it before. I just don`t really -- I just don`t imagine that I could put into words, you know, where someone would
actually have that sort of a thrill. So that one eludes me. But in this example here, I`m hoping that the police are getting what they can from the
scene and that -- you know, I understand there weren`t a lot of witnesses, other than someone that might have seen a dark SUV, but...
GRACE: Well, what can you get, Rusty? What can you get? What can the police possibly get from the scene? They get to the scene and they
find Mommy dead like a speed bump, left in the road. Whoever hit her has to know that he hit a person, all right? Really.
HAIGHT: What we`re going to probably find on the scene...
GRACE: There`s no way to pretend...
HAIGHT: ... things like glass and car parts...
GRACE: ... they didn`t know it was a person. Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, I`m sorry. We`re probably going to find things on the scene like glass and car parts that could be tied to a car.
And that should give them some leads. And then there might be something on the body, you know, on the -- when they get to the coroner`s office with
the body, they might find something there that would give them some indication of the type of vehicle. So they`ll start to be able to narrow
down, hopefully, you know, what kind of car hit her, and from that, do some searches and perhaps actually find the right car. That would be an
ideal...
GRACE: OK, don`t move, Rusty Haight, the director of the Collision Safety Institute. Joining me right now, medical examiner and pathologist
Dr. William Morrone. Dr. Morrone, help me piece this together. What can they possibly learn from the body that might find this killer, possibly
connected now to two women that have been mowed down. And I don`t get it, Dr. Morrone, what thrill the killer could get from mowing down young women
on foot.
DR. WILLIAM MORRONE, MEDICAL EXAMINER, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Two important points. Number one, most of the people involved in these kind of
incidents, the drivers, are under the influence of drugs and alcohol. And it`s one of the reasons why they don`t go for help, because they`re going
to go to jail.
GRACE: But wait a minute, Dr. Morrone! If there were just one woman, I might agree with you. But to me, two women seems -- or more, seems more
planned, more targeted. That to me rules out drugs or alcohol. This is some perv who gets some kind of a weird kick from running down women on
foot. I mean, these two cases are too similar. You`ve got two white females, both with brown hair, both on foot, small community, both heading
home. They both are very similar, both same time of day.
I mean, come on. You really think this is a coincidence?
MORRONE: I think mental illness, substance abuse and alcoholism can play a really big part of this. But second point. Any time you have a
collision of two bodies -- let`s say this is a vehicle, this is a person. We have a collision. Then you`re going to have a form (ph). You`re going
to have a transfer of plastic, broken glass, paint chips, and then the bruises in autopsy. The shape of the bruises are going to be able to match
up to grills, cars or trucks and parts of tires.
There`s a lot of evidence here. And it`s a very sad thing, but they should be able to pull this out.
GRACE: OK, I don`t understand what you`re saying, Dr. Morrone. You`re saying that the bruises left on the body could mirror the grill-work
or something peculiar about a particular car?
MORRONE: Grill, exactly. You`re going to be able to tell whether this was a big Escalade and really high bruises on the chest or around the
shoulders, or if it was a smaller SUV, a little light-duty truck, where the injuries and the fractures are more along the knees and the thighs. And
those are very important for the transfer of fatal wounds.
GRACE: OK, that is making sense to me. The difference between a light-weight SUV -- it is an SUV, it`s not a truck -- and a heavyweight
SUV, you`re saying that one is higher up than the other. And depending on where the victims are struck, you can determine that? Is that what you`re
saying?
MORRONE: Yes, because these light-weight SUVs -- sometimes imported vehicles -- are running around 3,000 to 3,500 pounds. And a really big
domestic SUV, loaded out, is going to run around 5,000 to 5,500 pounds. That`s a lot of mass.
And they`re going to be able to tell how fast or how much energy was put into that. And they`ll be able to extrapolate out -- well, if they
find out what was the size of the vehicle, when they get to court, the district attorney is going to say how fast they were going when that person
died. And that is classic.
GRACE: Back to Rusty Haight, director of the Collision Safety Institute. Rusty, you were describing another serial killer who used a
vehicle, mowing people down. Why? Why did he do it?
HAIGHT: You know, there`s a lot of theories, but it comes down to the guy was just crazy. There`s just not much else to say. He got a thrill
out of all kinds of different crimes, and he admitted to many of them right before he was hanged in Australia. But he -- he ran -- he would steal a
car, drive down the road, and then actually run over -- he typically chose women. I don`t think -- I can`t think of a case where he chose a man. But
he typically chose women, often walking alone, and he would see them walking down the road and literally just swerve off the road to run them
down.
I don`t get the psyche behind it. I can`t even try to explain it. But this guy was good for a number of different fatal and near-fatal
events.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can`t imagine someone just hitting her and leaving her there like a bag of garbage.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here on the road, you can still see the marks where the accident happened.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When the vehicle struck and killed her. The vehicle took off into the night.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, police are looking at everything, from possible surveillance video that may have caught the accident, to
witnesses.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The fact that we don`t know the whole story, the mystery.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bring the person who caused all this to justice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: This is no accident. A gorgeous young mom of a 9-week-old baby boy is dead tonight. She`s walking home from a local cafe, en route
home, trying to walk off some baby weight, when a mystery SUV, dark in color, mows her down and keeps on going.
Police tonight will not reveal whether there is a connection, but 24 hours before, Sharon Cera, another young female in Danbury, mowed down by a
dark-colored SUV. She also walking home, according to our reports, alone, mowed down just like Rachel Sack.
We`re waiting to find out if police will confirm a connection between these two dead women, these two dead moms. This is a shot of Rachel Sack.
This is a shot on the right of Sharon Cera. Tonight, we want justice. We want this killer behind bars.
We are live and taking your calls. Straight out to you, Lisa. Hi, Lisa, what`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I`ve been watching your show for 10 or 11 years, and still I love your show.
GRACE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I just want to make this statement, please. Unfortunately, could this accident been intentional that the person ran her
over with his car?
GRACE: You know, Lisa, that is my concern, that these two -- at least these two -- women`s deaths are linked. And if so, that would be
intentional. Now, Dr. Morrone says it could be drugs or alcohol. But to me, if you`re targeting someone, that is not an accident. That is
intentional. I`m going to refer to this as a crash because this is no accident.
Unleash the lawyers. Joining me tonight, Jeff Gold out of Atlanta, also with me out of Miami, Marla Chicotsky, both veteran defense attorneys.
All right, Marla, first to you. What`s your defense?
MARLA CHICOTSKY, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I don`t think that this was a coincidence. I think that there was alcohol, like Dr. Morrone stated,
involved. That`s -- a telltale sign is why people drive off from the scene of an accident because they don`t want to leave evidence there. They don`t
want to make contact with law enforcement...
GRACE: Excuse me...
CHICOTSKY: ... because if they do, they`re going to be arrested on scene.
GRACE: So you`re saying that the person is so drunk, they don`t realize what they`re doing, but that they have enough wherewithal to know
that what they did was wrong and they`re evading police. See, you want your cake and you want to eat it, too. You can`t have the person so drunk
they don`t even know they hit somebody, yet they went, Oh, I hit somebody, and I don`t want the cops to get me. So that argument is a non sequitur.
That does not follow. I`m going to give you another shot at it, Marla.
But first to you, Jeff Gold. Give me your best defense you`ve got.
JEFF GOLD, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, first of all, there`s no way to say these things are linked. It`s just a guess that they`re linked.
There`s no information from the police saying it. And second of all, we don`t know what was going on with the victim herself. Was she on
substances? Was she texting at the time? How did the accident happen?
GRACE: What? She`s a pedestrian!
GOLD: I agree -- I agree leaving the scene is a problem for this guy, no matter what happened. That`s clear under Connecticut law. But we don`t
know how...
GRACE: There is no evidence...
GOLD: ... the accident happened.
GRACE: ... whatsoever that she was texting...
GOLD: We don`t know what happened.
GRACE: ... none whatsoever. Why are you even saying that...
(CROSSTALK)
GOLD: Because you don`t know what happened, Nancy. You don`t know that. It`s just as much a guess to say it was intentional.
GRACE: All right, hold on. Let`s find out. Let`s find out. Vinnie Penn joining me from "The Vinnie Penn Project." He`s the host, WELI.
Vinnie, you hear the defense attorneys already trying to blame the victim. All right, what do we know about Mommy, Rachel Sack? I`ve heard nothing
about her texting or doing anything except walking home.
PENN: No, no. I know people who know the family, know that bar. I`ve been to the cafe. The fact of the matter is, my belief is the walking
was an act of responsibility. If there was a celebratory pop or two, it was, I don`t want to drive home after that. It was an act of
responsibility.
My big concern is I see a link here, too. But what you`re all kind of missing is, this vehicle`s not going to wind up being registered. This
dark-colored SUV -- you`re never going to be able to track it down because...
GRACE: Why?
PENN: ... one of the biggest issues in Connecticut is we have a litany (ph) of unregistered vehicles.
GRACE: OK, I`ve got a question for you, Vinnie Penn. There seem to be no witnesses that can give me a tag number, anything about the tag. Was
it a local tag as far as location? I can`t get a make or model. What`s happening?
PENN: Right. What made -- a gentleman you had on a few minutes back had mentioned she was dining out with the baby`s father. That`s news to
me. I`m looking for a comment from that gentleman. I certainly don`t want to call him into question, but I did not hear that that`s who she was
dining with. And I find it hard to believe that she did walk home from Michael`s 2, by the way, a family-owned business...
GRACE: Yes, hold on. What...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... Vinnie. What can you tell me about Michael`s? I understand it`s a family restaurant. She had not been out since the baby
was born. So she goes out and she has dinner here. And it`s a very rural area, which makes it even more difficult to believe that this was not
intentional because it`s not like there`s a heavy traffic pattern. She didn`t step out on the freeway, for Pete`s sake. She`s walking. This is
actually not far from her home. And she`s...
PENN: Yes, Nancy, this is...
GRACE: ... walking home.
PENN: This is Michael`s 2. This guy had a great run for 10 years with the original Michael`s Cafe. He returned with his son. He`s handing
over a business.
GRACE: Right.
PENN: This is the kind of place, when she walked in, they all cheered. And they were there to celebrate the birth of this child.
GRACE: Oh!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just feel sick, sick to my stomach.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Heartbreaking. It is heartbreaking.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How could she have been hit and left to die in the cold like that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They come forward. I hope they have a conscience.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I love her very much, and she`ll always be in my heart.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re going to miss her forever.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tonight, we want a killer behind bars. You are seeing shots right now of a young mom of a 9-week-old baby boy. She goes out for the
first time since giving birth to have dinner at a local restaurant, a family restaurant. Walking home, she is mowed down by a mystery SUV.
Tonight, we want justice. The tip line 203-790-TIPS, 203-790-8477. Then our investigation leads us to another hit-and-run victim, another
female looking very much like Rachel Sack, a young mom, Sharon Cera, mowed down by a dark SUV. She was a pedestrian, as well, en route home, we are
told. Sharon Cera and Rachel Sack within 24 hours, both mowed down. We want answers. This 9-week-old will now be raised without a mother.
To Cheryl Hunter, recovery expert and author, "Turning Setbacks Into Success." Cheryl, there is no way this guy does not know he hit a human,
hit a woman. He had his headlights on. He saw her. He didn`t even swerve, according to what we`ve learned -- did not even swerve, Cheryl!
CHERYL HUNTER, TRAUMA RECOVERY EXPERT: And justice must be served. I think it`ll bring the family an immense sense of -- of -- of vindication to
see that the -- that the -- that her killer is brought to justice. But at the same time, Nancy, one of the things that I`m really interested in now
is her young son and his life.
GRACE: I agree. He will never, ever, know his mother, never will he have her hold him, have her feed him, have her love him. And she was so
proud, going out for the celebration dinner. Everybody starts cheering when she goes into Michael`s cafe that she`s had the baby boy, and this is
her first night out after giving birth.
Unleash the lawyers. Marla Chicotsky, Jeff Gold. There have been, there is precedent, Marla, for murder charges where the murder weapon is a
vehicle. That is not unheard of.
CHICOTSKY: No, Nancy, you`re absolutely correct. What we don`t know is whether this area was lit. If in fact the driver, what side the victim
was walking on. There are too many facts unknown at this time to definitely say that he knew with certainty --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: We are looking at it right now. Show the shots again. The scene, there`s the scene of the crime right there. She is within her
rights, crossing the street, and she is mowed down. And it`s not even a busy traffic pattern. This is a very rural area. I`m just stunned. Okay.
To you, Jeff Gold, it`s just like using a gun or a knife. It`s using a car. It first came to the forefront in death by Mercedes, where a woman
ran over her husband, who was a dentist, in a Mercedes, it was a highly publicized death by Mercedes. Same thing here. They didn`t even slow
down!
GOLD: There`s no crosswalk over there. Look where that x is in the middle of the street, and she`s walking. I`m not saying she`s at fault,
but we just don`t know. This is not a case -- maybe, as Vinny said, maybe the father of the baby had something to do with it.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Stop right there. Stop right there. The father was still in the restaurant. She walked out ahead of him.
GOLD: I`m not saying it. Vinnie said it.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Rusty Haight, collision expert, from what we`ve been told, the guy didn`t even slow down. I mean, really? He couldn`t tell he hit a
person? A human?
HAIGHT: That`s the defense people use in hit and runs all the time. It`s really not unusual. And it`s garbage. I`ve done a lot of crash
tests. You can`t miss the sound of a dummy or in --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: What is that sound like? What is that sound like when you hit a human? It is unmistakable.
HAIGHT: Oh, without a doubt. You can`t describe it almost. It`s a thud. It`s a low, sickening, glass-shattering thump that just resonates,
and it`s not something you`d confuse, frankly, with a dog or a rock or a tree. It`s very distinct and very different. And you can`t really, I
mean, people have tried. You can`t really get away with saying, gee, I didn`t know I hit a person. The glass is blown out, the headlights are
blown out. You know what you`ve done.
We`ve had people that have left bodies in cars, driven home and hid them in the garage, it happened down in Texas.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: And now to Port Orange, a neighborhood stunned when it is revealed a young mother of two tots allegedly force-feed both toddlers
deadly toilet bowl cleaner with a sippy cup!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Neighbors are heartbroken and worried.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was out of her mind.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators say West forced her two kids, a 3 month old and a 2-year-old to drink toilet bowl cleaner.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Okay. A mother force-feeding her two children toilet bowl cleaner? The smelly, blue stuff? Force-feeding them, using a sippy cup?
Let me first start with you, Dr. William Morrone, medical examiner, forensic pathologist. What is in toilet bowl cleaner?
MORRONE: Let me start by saying there is no such thing as safe toilet bowl cleaner, period. It`s all bad. The most important ingredient up
front is hydrochloric acid. Sulfamic acid. And it says avoid contact with eyes, skin, mucus membranes, mouth, do not breathe vapors. Do not swallow
this product. And if you get it in your eyes, you have to wash your eyes for 15 minutes! No such thing as safe toilet bowl cleaner -- none, zero.
GRACE: First of all, why is it blue?
MORRONE: Well, that`s just dye.
GRACE: All right. Give me those ingredients, again, please? What was the first one?
MORRONE: The first one is hydrochloric acid. Hydrochloric acid. And then sulfamic acid. The reason why they color it is they want you to see
it being added to a clear liquid so that you know it`s going in. If it`s clear, then you never know how much you`re really putting in. It`s a way
to judge. And it says flush skin with plenty of water, even if you get it on your skin, why do you think I`m wearing gloves? Even to hold the
bottle, it`s dangerous to hold the bottle. It`s dangerous to breathe in the same room. No such thing as safe toilet bowl cleaner.
GRACE: Dr. Morrone, what would happen, what does happen to a human, especially a child, when they are fed toilet bowl cleaner in the sippy cup?
MORRONE: When I was in toxicology, the first thing we learn, the first week in toxicology was to learn fatal events around the house.
Toilet bowl cleaner, hydrochloric acid getting into the mouth, getting into the back of the throat, going down the esophagus, going into the trachea is
a chemical burn equivalent to liquid fire. Damage is instantaneous. And the inside of the body, the tubes that allow you to breathe and eat burn
and then swell up with edema, and they close off so you can`t breathe in a couple minutes. That`s why the vapor`s really bad. Taking the actual
toilet bowl cleaner and putting it inside you is the equivalent of liquid fire. Irreversible burns inside you that nobody can see. And your
trachea, that goes to your lungs, your esophagus goes to your stomach, swell up and shut, damaged. You can`t breathe. You cannot --
GRACE: Right there, why does your esophagus or your trache swell up and shut?
MORRONE: What the body does, because of the -- the radically low pH, that`s a measure of acidity, very, very low. It forces fluid to go there
to try to correct the burning and dilute the damage from the chemicals. And the fluid is in such excess to try to protect, you lose blood vessels.
GRACE: Okay.
MORRONE: Fluid -- and it can`t flow away.
GRACE: Let`s go straight to, now with that understanding from Dr. Morrone, straight out to Candace Trunzo, senior news editor at
Mailonline.com. Candace, thank you for being with us. When I first heard about this case, I thought I had misread it. I had to go back over it
several times. A mom force-feeds her children toilet bowl cleaner in a sippy cup? One who rejected drinking it, she put it in their mouth,
straight in the toilet bowl cleaner bottle, is my understanding.
CANDACE TRUNZO, MAILONLINE.COM: Yes, in the 3 month old, she poured it through a sippy cup. In the 2-year-old, she actually force fed it
through the bottle of toilet bowl cleaner.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police responded to this home on Timber Trail in Port Orange. Investigators say West forced her two kids, a three months
old and a two-year old to drink toilet bowl cleaner. Then drank it herself in an attempt to commit suicide. The children were taken to Halifax
Medical Center for observation and were later released. According to .
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back, everyone. We are taking you live to Orange where a young mom is accused of force-feeding both of her children, both
tots, toilet bowl cleaner. One in a sippy cup, the other, who resisted, she used the actual toilet bowl cleaner and put it to the child`s mouth and
force-fed it as well. Of course, she says she wanted to commit suicide. The mom, of course, did not die. So, as is so often is the case. Back out
to Candace Trunzo, CNN News editor with Mailonline.com. Did the mom give any reason why she wanted to kill her two children?
CANDACE TRUNZO, SR. NEWS EDITOR, MAILONLINE.COM: Yes. The mom was, first of all, very, very depressed. I know, Nancy, you have a zero
tolerance for any kind of, any kind of abuse of a parent to a child, or anyone for that matter, but I mean she was seriously, seriously depressed.
And she talked about wanting to go to heaven and take her children with her to heaven. And be with God. And she went through this bizarre ritualistic
experience with them before she actually fed them this toilet bowl cleaner, where she undressed them. They were naked. They lie naked on the bedroom
floor, the three of them. And then she, she went outside, came back in, dressed them and gave them this horrific toilet bowl cleaner.
GRACE: Well, you know, Candace, let he just start about depression. A large - a large percentage of Americans suffer from depression. And it`s
brutal. It`s brutal. You can`t shake it off. However, depression is not equal to insanity. It is not a legal defense. I`m sad. I`m sorry for her
that she was enduring depression. Depression is a horrible thing, even when it`s diagnosed. Even if it`s clinical depression. It still does not
rise to a defense of feeding your two toddlers toilet bowl cleaner! I mean, Candace, did you hear what Morrone, Morrone, tell her what this does
going down your esophagus. What toilet bowl cleaner does to a human!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. WILLIAM MORRONE, D.O. MED. EXAMINER & FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Toilet bowl cleaner is the equivalent. It`s the same damage as fire in a
building. It`s liquid fire. It destroys blood vessels. And the inside of your esophagus, which runs to your lungs closes. It closes. It swells
shut. You don`t have enough room to breathe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I mean, Candace, and you start your scenario with me, Candace, with she was depressed?
TRUNZO: Well, I`m not making excuses for her, there`s no excuse, there`s no excuse to do this to your children. Absolutely none. So don`t
get me wrong. I`m not making excuses for her.
GRACE: I mean I`m depressed hearing about it.
TRUNZO: Very, very troubled, and, you know, and clearly, she had some kind of mission in her head that she and her children were better off going
to heaven and being with God. Certainly no excuse, but I mean you have to see that this woman had a history of mental illness, a history of
depression. She had tried to kill herself before. She was on the medication.
GRACE: OK, you know, Candice Trunzo, I hear what you`re saying. That she had been suffering from depression and tried to kill herself. Why is
it when people want to kill themselves, they feel they have got to kill their children too. I don`t want anybody to kill themselves. But why put
and torture your children by having them drink essentially liquid fire in order to take them to death along with you? And I would like to point out
that she did in fact live. OK. To you, Matt Zarrell, taking the children to heaven. That`s what she tells the police. All right, where is she
tonight?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: She is at the Volusia County jail right now, Nancy, and she is on suicide watch per the jail.
GRACE: Is she under treatment? Is she under some kind of psychiatric treatment?
ZARRELL: Well, what the jail says is that she has got very limited amenities and access to things and she is watched 24/7. They keep an eye
on her as ..
GRACE: OK, I heard what you just said. Matt Zarrell, that she has amenities. Can I just nail you down on that? What do you mean she has got
amenities?
ZARRELL: She has access to TV, outside activities such as a basketball court in walking area, commissary including popcorn and chips
and candies. No jail photos because of security issues. But we`re trying to get more details for you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Welcome back. We find out mommy has amenities at the jail like chips, TV. But this is the mom, Amelia West, who force feeds her
children, a two-year-old boy and a three-month-old baby girl toilet bowl cleaner in a sippy cup. Unleash the lawyers, Jeff Gold, Marla Chicotsky,
the only reason that the children are alive is because it was seventh generation toilet bowl cleaner. That`s the only reason they`re alive,
Marla.
MARLA CHICOTSKY, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Absolutely, Nancy. And this mother is very lucky that this was nontoxic. Because instead of attempted
murder, it would be murder. So it is very clear that from what she stated to the detective, that there is some sort of grandiose and disillusion
happening with the mother. She says that she was hearing Bible verses in her head and Jesus. So, I think that there is a mental health definitely
playing a role in this matter, and the state is going to have to really look at to whether they can prove that since it was nontoxic, if it can
even rise to attempted murder or even aggravated child abuse.
GRACE: Wait a minute, wait a minute.
CHICOTSKY: . the children.
GRACE: No, no, no. Wait a minute. When you feed, force feed your children toilet bowl cleaner, and just by the grace of god you feed them
seventh generation toilet bowl cleaner, that is not going to save you in court. The only thing that might save her, Jeff Gold, is if she has a bona
fide legitimate mal (ph) defense and depression is not going to .
JEFF GOLD: Well, you`re right. It`s - and defense is what is the classic, not knowing right from wrong? This woman thought she was saving
the children. She goes out and makes them all naked on the front lawn. Goes to the neighbors and says have you seen Jesus? She thinks she is
doing the right thing. That`s a classic (inaudible) insanity defense. This will be child abuse. Nothing more than that. And she needs to be in
a mental institution. Probably, an NGI, not guilty by reason of insanity.
GRACE: Or guilty but mentally ill. Because I don`t want her to get treated and then get back out and get these children. And then do a repeat
performance.
GOLD: Well, I agree with you, Nancy.
GRACE: That`s what my concern tonight. You may think I`m hard hearted, but my concern is that she not get back out and get these
children. That is my fear. And I want to keep her in a mental treatment facility or in jail. I don`t want her out with these children. You know
what, let`s stop and remember American hero, Army Major Steven Reich, 34, Washington (INAUDIBLE) Connecticut. Three Bronze Stars, Purple Heart, a
West Point grad. Loved baseball. A building at Ft. Campbell named in his honor. Parents Ray and Sue, sisters Megan and Emily, widow, Jill. Steven
Reich, American hero. And on this day, Veterans Day, we honor our country`s heroes. The men and women that put their lives in harm`s way.
Some making the ultimate sacrifice for us in our freedom.
(TAPS)
GRACE: Thank you, veterans. I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:000 sharp Eastern. Good night, friend.
END
