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Nancy Grace
Dershowitz Strikes Back; Prince Andrew Embroiled in Underage Sex Slave Ring
Aired January 07, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, bombshell developments in the claims Prince Andrew, the Duke of York and heir to the
royal throne of England, embroiled in an underage sex slave ring. As the sex slave nightmare deepens, the teen girl claiming she`s forced to have
sex multiple times with Prince Andrew in New York, London and the Caribbean, according to court papers, the girl allegedly procured for
Andrew by American millionaire Jeffrey Epstein.
Tonight, we learn Epstein gets a sweetheart deal for procuring sex with minor girls. Was Prince Andrew one of the johns? The girl`s father
demanding justice while the royals deny, deny, deny. Bombshell tonight. Famed legal scholar, O.J. Simpson defense lawyer Alan Dershowitz now also
dragged into the sex claims, which Dershowitz denies, the teen girl suing Dershowitz for defamation.
Is Prince Andrew headed to jail over sex slave charges? Does this mark the beginning of the end of the British monarchy? The whole thing set
to crack wide open.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Major sex scandal rocking Buckingham Palace.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tying his royal highness, Prince Andrew, to sex crimes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sex with an underage girl several times.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She is a liar.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Denials from Dershowitz, Prince Andrew and Epstein.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Roberts insists that she will pursue all available recourse.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live, Long Beach, a recycler makes a shocking discovery, a 3-week-old baby girl who he says, quote, "looked like a baby doll" found
dead in a California dumpster. Tonight, police beg for clues.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The deceased infant in a trash dumpster behind a strip mall.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somebody comes into this house, forces their way in, shoots three adults and flees with an infant. It`s a very horrific
crime.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A gunman shot little Eliza`s (ph) parents and uncle before kidnapping her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need to get the coward who committed this violent, senseless act.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, live, Ohio suburbs, a little girl goes missing. Police say be on the lookout for this man, 27-year-old Walter Dunn (ph).
Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell developments in claims Prince Andrew, the Duke of York, an heir to the royal throne of England, embroiled in an underage sex slave
ring, as the sex slave nightmare only deepens, the teen girl claiming she`s forced to have sex multiple times with Prince Andrew in New York, London
and the Caribbean, according to court papers, the girl allegedly procured for Prince Andrew by American millionaire Jeffrey Epstein.
And tonight, we learn Epstein gets a sweetheart deal for procuring sex with minor girls -- a sweetheart deal! This guy`s convicted of procuring
sex with minors. Was Andrew one of the johns? The girl`s father demanding justice while the royals deny, deny, deny. Famed legal scholar, O.J.
Simpson defense lawyer Alan Dershowitz now dragged into the sex claims, which Dershowitz denies, the teen girl now suing Dershowitz for defamation.
Is Prince Andrew headed to jail over sex slave charges? Does this mark the beginning of the end of the British monarchy? The whole thing set
to crack wide open.
And joining me right now from London, Neil Sean, royals watcher. Neil, the ante has totally been upped by dragging in legal professor Alan
Dershowitz, the girl now suing Dershowitz for defamation. She is, I guess, claiming underage sex with Dershowitz. I can tell you that didn`t happen.
But what concerns me is Prince Andrew because Andrew is connected to Epstein. Epstein, I guess, may have been his financial adviser. But
Epstein is an American millionaire, Neil Sean, who -- I got the documents right here -- who just pled guilty to procuring minor girls for sex. He`s
basically a pimp. That`s what he is. He`s like this with Andrew. He`s a pimp.
So what else am I supposed to think? Help me out here.
NEIL SEAN, ROYALS WATCHER: Good evening, Nancy.
GRACE: Good evening.
SEAN: I love the way you -- you make the entrance (ph) sound more dramatic than an episode of "Dynasty." But...
GRACE: Really? Well, you know, in America, we don`t take kindly to underage sex, OK?
SEAN: And I have to point out to you, Nancy, that since we last spoke, Prince Andrew, the Duke of York, still refutes all claims. There
are still no legal documents cited (ph) with Scotland Yard or the British Metropolitan Police. And it`s quite simply a simple fact. If this was
such a solid, rock solid case as you state, then why have these papers not been filed over here in England?
GRACE: Well, what about...
SEAN: You know, it really doesn`t make sense.
GRACE: ... the fact that there`s a statute of limitations? If the claims are true -- if they`re true -- I`m not saying they are or they`re
not, but if they`re true, at this point, the statute of limitations has passed on an underage sex claim. That can`t -- we just learned all this
from Bill Cosby, a star here in the U.S., charged with molesting people. The statute of limitations has passed, OK? So there can never be a
prosecution. So just because he says, No, I didn`t, that doesn`t mean that that`s true.
SEAN: Of course not. No. And as I said to you also the other night, you know, we have a very strict British law over here. And it`s quite
simple. You know, what everybody particularly over here in the media, Nancy, want to see or would like to see is something a little bit more
harder evidence. All we`ve got is a bit of mudslinging from this girl, Virginia, who`s now...
GRACE: Now, hold on. Hold on.
SEAN: ... counter-suing...
GRACE: Hold on, Neil Sean!
SEAN: I`m holding.
GRACE: I hear what you`re saying. I hear what you`re saying. But there is more to it than just the girl`s claim because tonight, we uncover
the guilty plea, the sweetheart deal this American millionaire made for procuring underage girls for sex, all right? So you`ve got him, Epstein,
pleading guilty to jail time for procuring underage girls for sex. You`ve got him as an associate with Andrew. And you`ve got a photo of Andrew with
the teen girl. OK, what am I missing?
SEAN: I think what you`re missing is the fact that there is -- you know, everybody associated is around the Duke of York. You know, what
you`re actually saying is, Well, look, you know, just because these people are around him are all allegedly guilty, then he must be, too. You know,
that`s not really a fair trial, is it, because the bottom line is...
GRACE: No.
SEAN: No. No. Hang on, Nancy. The bottom line is...
GRACE: No, I`m agreeing with you that`s not a fair trial. That`s not a fair trial.
SEAN: It`s not a fair trial. And you know, what you`re actually saying is, Well, you know, all of these people around him, which you know,
I agree with, and if that`s the case and that`s what`s happened, that`s fine. But you know, not one of these people yet or even in the future has
actually stated anything which incriminates the Duke of York. So until that happens, what you`ve got is one picture with one girl`s story. And
that story becomes flakier each time.
GRACE: Hold on. Now, hold on. Hold on. In the guilty plea -- Michael Christian, in the guilty plea where Epstein, the American
millionaire, is basically a pimp, all right? He`s a pimp. I don`t care how much money he`s got, he`s a pimp. I put a lot of men like him behind
bars. They weren`t millionaires, but they did the same thing Epstein did.
So in the legal documents, Michael Christian, where Epstein pled guilty, this girl, Virginia Roberts, is the girl that`s in the documents.
That`s who he`s pleading guilty about, is this girl, right?
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): I think he`s pleading guilty about more than one, Nancy.
GRACE: Fine, but...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... is this girl, the girl making the claim about Prince Andrew -- is she in the documents to which he pled guilty? He pled guilty
after these documents, correct?
CHRISTIAN: She is -- yes, she -- he pled guilty. She is not named by name. She`s named as a Jane Doe, but we believe that she is one of the
Jane Does.
GRACE: OK, let me go back to Neil Sean. Neil, what I`m saying is, this guy, Epstein -- and I`m furious about this sweetheart deal! How a man
can just hide behind a wad of money in America and get a -- I mean, this guy did 13 months behind bars. He was sentenced to 18. And he got to
spend 16 hours a day in his Palm Beach mansion. Now, Neil, I don`t know if you`ve ever been to Palm Beach. I have driven through it. I mean, it`s
dripping with money. That`s his big sentence.
Now, I personally, Neil, have put people in jail for 20 years plus for underage prostitution. They`re still rotting in jail right now, and I hope
they stay there.
Long story short, he got a sweetheart deal. Now, do you not -- are you not getting my argument to you? Prince Andrew is the associate with
Epstein. There are photos of them together, talking together. Epstein flies this girl that he pled guilty to using as a prostitute to England,
and she`s photographed with Andrew. That is not helping the royals!
SEAN: Not helping the royals at all. But you know, you said flown to England. You know, OK. Take all those things aside, you have not, and no
one has actually shown any concrete evidence. Forget Prince Andrew out of this now. When did this girl actually fly to London? Where is the
boarding pass? Where`s the ticket? There must be some immigration situation. Come on, show me something a little bit more tangible than some
tatty picture taken by somebody with a...
GRACE: What -- what is -- what is "tatty"? Why do you keep saying that? We don`t know what that is. What`s "tatty"?
SEAN: "Tatty" sort of means -- you know -- you know, like, when you met your favorite rock star 20 years ago, Nancy, and you suddenly said, Oh,
I met Donny Osmond. Look. It`s a bit like that, you know? So consequently, and for me...
GRACE: OK, you`re saying Donny Osmond is a rock star. I`m just going to, you know, let that pass. So all right, tatty...
SEAN: Oh, come on!
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I don`t know what that is. I still don`t know what that means. OK, so "tatty." I don`t care what that means, but I know that
Andrew`s in a picture with this girl, who was used as an underage hooker by Epstein. And Epstein pled guilty.
You`re seeing the photo on the cover of "The Daily Mail" allegedly showing Andrew, Prince Andrew, with Virginia Roberts. Virginia Roberts is
the girl claiming...
SEAN: Yes.
GRACE: Now, another giant breakthrough, a bombshell development. To Candace Trunzo, senior news editor, Dailymail.com. The whole thing is
cracked wide open because of Alan Dershowitz. Everybody, you know Alan Dershowitz, famed legal scholar, O.J. defense lawyer.
I think this hurts her credibility myself, the girl. She claims she had underage sex with Dershowitz. Now, I don`t believe that for a minute.
And I know Dershowitz. It`s very -- and I quote Dershowitz, "I didn`t even have underage sex when I was underage," according to Dershowitz. And on
this one, I actually believe Dershowitz. Now, in a courtroom, I may not trust him as far as I can throw him, but I don`t think that that happened.
But here`s how it cracked all open, Candace. She makes a claim on Dershowitz. Dershowitz says no way. He wants his name out of this. He
files court papers. Now the girl is suing him for defamation. And if she sues him for defamation, that means somebody is going to go under oath.
Not only that, when Epstein, the millionaire, takes his sweetheart deal, nobody told any of the victims, according to them. They are going to
go back into this case, Candace, open it up, and crack the whole thing wide open. That`s my understanding, Candace, of what`s about to happen. And
Prince Andrew is going to be floating down this river right into a cesspool!
CANDACE TRUNZO, DAILYMAIL.COM (via telephone): Very possibly. There are so many girls involved with this, it`s likely that there are other
girls, now women, who are going to come forward and they`re going to -- you know, they may have been put up to having sex with Epstein`s friends, and
it may be that Prince Andrew is named again.
So we`re not sure where this is all going to go. Meanwhile, there are lawsuits flying back and forth, certainly between Dershowitz and between
Virginia Roberts and her lawyers, and claims of -- you know, all kinds of claims flowing back and forth in terms of defamation.
GRACE: I don`t understand, Candace Trunzo, how he can get a sweetheart deal when he is procuring sex with little girls in this country
-- Jeff Epstein, him, right there -- and he gets to basically stay in his Palm Beach mansion? How does that happen? He should be behind bars for 20
years.
TRUNZO: Sure, but he had -- he had an O.J. type dream team of lawyers, including Dershowitz, including Roy Black, who successfully
defended William Kennedy Smith when he was accused of rape. So he had a battery of lawyers, and investigators have said that they have never seen
anything like it, the pressure that was put on police, on the courts, on everyone to get Epstein this incredible deal.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When there`s scandal at the palace, it usually goes quiet. Not this time, though.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Buckingham Palace has become very vocal denying allegations in a federal lawsuit tying his royal highness, Prince Andrew...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back. Joining me, in addition to Neil Sean, Candace Trunzo and Victoria Arbiter, with me right now, Harvard law professor, O.J.
Simpson defense lawyer Alan Dershowitz. Alan, thank you for being with us.
ALAN DERSHOWITZ, HARVARD LAW PROFESSOR: Thank you, Nancy, for having me on. I appreciate it.
GRACE: Well, Alan, many things have been said about you in the past. That`s true. But underage sex has never been one of them. How shocked
were you when you got this claim?
DERSHOWITZ: Well, I couldn`t believe it. I`ve had, you know, an exemplary life, family life for 50 years. And I didn`t know this woman. I
don`t know her. I`ve never met her. I`ve never been with her.
She said I had sex with her in a New Mexico ranch. I was in that ranch for one hour while it was being built, with my daughter and wife and
two friends. She said I had sex with her on an island in the Caribbean. I was on the island for 24 hours with my wife, my daughter, another couple,
their brother and sister-in-law and their children. I was never out of the sight of my wife and daughter. I slept in the same cabin that night. She
said I had sex with her on airplanes flying all over the world. The manifests of the airplane will show I was never on an airplane with her or
anybody like her.
She just lied. She made up the whole story from beginning to end. And it`s a terrible thing for rape victims when you get a woman like this
who for money is trying to make up a story. She`s trying to sell her story in book form. She`s already sold her story to various tabloids in London,
and she`s just making it up. And I can prove it. And when I prove it conclusively with documentation, it will be very, very unfortunate for real
victims, and that`s why I feel so terrible about this.
GRACE: And another thing about this, Alan Dershowitz, is that the fact that your name was in court filings, that she accused you basically in
court filings, those are -- I mean, you can`t really sue her for defamation because court filings are immune.
DERSHOWITZ: Not only that, she didn`t even make the charge. She has no affidavit. There`s no statement by her. It`s her lawyers who say that
she says that. So I can`t sue anybody because it`s in a court filing, and I can`t even answer in court because they don`t ask for a hearing. They
don`t say they want to prove it. They just put it out there like a drive- by shooting or like somebody putting some graffiti in a toilet and then running away.
They gave me no opportunity to respond in court, which is why I`ve now filed a sworn statement. I`ve made a motion to intervene. By filing a
sworn statement, I am subjecting myself to a perjury prosecution if I`m lying. I`ve challenged her to file rape charges against me. I will wave
statutes of limitation because if she does that, she will go to jail for making a false charge. Now they...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... you just said you would waive the statute of limitations, that`s -- that`s unheard of by -- anyone that`s guilty would never waive
the statute of limitation and allow a rape victim to -- you know, basically an open door to prosecute them.
What I really hate, Alan, of course, for these unfounded claims against you for your sake, but for your family, for your wife, who has been
by your side for many, many years, and your children to even hear such a thing. That`s -- and what this woman, what this girl doesn`t know is while
her claims against Andrew may or may not be true, but to bring in someone that is really beyond reproach as far as your personal life, that
completely ruins her claims against Andrew, frankly, in my mind, because once you lose your credibility, it`s over.
DERSHOWITZ: I think that`s right. And you know, it`s been very hurtful. I have grandchildren who are in college. You know, everybody`s
on the Internet about this. And it`s very, very painful. But I have to fight back. I am fighting back. I won`t give up until they acknowledge
that they made up the story out of whole cloth. And I will prevail because in the end, I can prove conclusively that I didn`t do it. I couldn`t have
done it. I wasn`t in the places where she says I was at the relevant points of time. So it does...
GRACE: I want to ask that question, Alan. It`s amazing to me that -- you`re claiming that you were at that Texas ranch and you were in the
Caribbean, where she`s referring to, but at different times, is that right?
DERSHOWITZ: I was only in the ranch in New Mexico for one hour. It wasn`t even built yet. It was being built. I was visiting friends in
Albuquerque, Placidis (ph), actually, and they drove -- they wanted to see this place because it`s the King Ranch. It`s the largest ranch in New
Mexico.
So we drove there. We looked around. There was nobody there, just people repairing the house. There were no women, girls, or anything like
that. And that was it. That`s only time I`ve ever been in New Mexico in my life. The same thing is true on the Caribbean island.
And every -- you know, the travel records will prove it. Other records will prove it. So I couldn`t conceivably have been there and had
sex with her unless she came into my room with my wife and daughter somehow, and they didn`t notice. It`s absurd! I have never had sex with
any underage person. I have never done anything like this...
GRACE: You don`t even need to say that here because I`ve already defended you without you being on, Alan, because I do not believe this of
you. I don`t believe it of you. I`m not saying that Epstein and Andrew are lily white in this. I don`t know them. I know you. And this is
completely against anything you stand for. You`re just the opposite.
And the fact that you can`t sue for defamation right now -- it`s painful to me, but in a weird way, you`re helping Prince Andrew. You
understand, right?
DERSHOWITZ: That`s -- you know, my purpose is to just have (INAUDIBLE) come out. Their (INAUDIBLE) approach is you accuse somebody of
raping a child, and then when he tries to defend himself, you sue him for defaming you because he says you`re not telling the truth. But I`m glad
they`re suing me for defamation because I get to put them under oath. And as soon as this woman says...
GRACE: Hey, Alan, one more thing. One more thing, Alan. I`m very -- I`m very disturbed with that whole Epstein plea that you helped mastermind.
Now, I know you get paid a lot of money by all these millionaires. But come on, please, underage sex, and he gets to stay in his Palm Beach
mansion? He should have done 20 behind bars on that. Now, that`s something I don`t think I`d be proud of, if I was you.
DERSHOWITZ: Well, no, Nancy, you know the job of the criminal defense lawyer is to get the best possible deal we can. They did not have a strong
case. The prosecution wanted to bring charges, and in the end, they decided this was the best resolution for everybody involved, including some
of the women who didn`t want to testify.
So it was a deal. Look, if you say I got too good a deal, I plead guilty. But that doesn`t have anything to do with false charges against me
for having underage sex. That`s absurd. If you`re mad at me for having a good deal, go ahead, you know, have me on your show. We can argue that any
time. And you and I have argued for a long time about that kind of issue, and sometimes you even persuade me.
But when it comes to charging me with underage sex when I didn`t do it, couldn`t have done it, just because you`re mad at me or you`re
vindictive or you`re trying to get money, that just is not an acceptable thing under our legal system, and there have to be consequences. The
people who made these charges have to pay a heavy consequence to make sure it doesn`t happen again.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very severe allegations here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Claims she was forced to have sexual relations with the prince when she was a minor. According to the court filing,
Epstein told Roberts to give the prince whatever he demanded and required. The royal family refuting the claims.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Of course the royals deny, deny, deny, but at this hour a bombshell breakthrough in the case involving Prince Andrew, the heir to the
English throne. This girl claims that she was forced to have sex with Andrew on numerous occasions. London, Caribbean, New York. Tonight, we
learn about a sweetheart deal with basically her pimp. Yes, he`s a millionaire. Yes, he`s an American. And, yes, he got to spend 16 hours a
day of his sentence in his Palm Beach mansion. That was his sentence. That was his punishment to pleading guilty to procuring underage sex. With
me, Victoria Arbiter, CNN royal commentator. If this is substantiated regarding Andrew, could he go to jail and what would that mean for the
monarchy?
VICTORIA ARBITER, CNN ROYAL COMMENTATOR: Certainly if any evidence is found, if any evidence is filed that relates to Prince Andrew, then there
will be a full investigation by Scotland Yard, by the Metropolitan Police. They have all said at this point, nobody has filed any charges or any
complaints against him. So we`re still waiting on this long awaited evidence.
Of course that would throw the monarchy into complete disarray. You have to remember, this is one member of the royal family from a very large
royal family. The monarchy has been around for over 1,000 years. It`s weathered many a storm. It will come out the other side. Prince Andrew is
a working member, but he`s fifth in line. As of April when William and Kate have their second baby, he`ll be sixth in line. He`ll be keep
dropping down the ranks. And so while it`s incredibly embarrassing to the queen, to the monarchy and the country, until there`s any evidence, who
knows.
GRACE: Here`s my thing. Why is it that the royals seem to be above the law? I mean, I`m happy we have a president who can totally be
impeached and thrown in jail if we have to. But it`s just like nothing ever touches a royal.
ARBITER: They are absolutely not above the law. The fact is they haven`t broken any laws. And certainly if -- I say this categorically, if
Prince Andrew is implicated and evidence is found, this young lady was not underage by British law. She claims she was 17 when she had her first
rendezvous with Prince Andrew. That took place, according to her, in the U.K. He didn`t break the law if of course any evidence shows that he did
do it. At this point, there isn`t.
The royal family are not above the law. If there`s a complaint, then the Scotland Yard will investigate and file charges.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: And now live North Long Beach, a recycler makes a shocking discovery. A 3 week old baby girl who he says quote, "looks like a baby
doll," found dead in a dumpster. Tonight police begging for clues.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To take a precious child from home, throw her in a dumpster like a piece of trash. It`s something only a very heartless
person would do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To help us solve this crime, we absolutely need the public`s help.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The body of the 3 week old was found in a dumpster.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just thrown away like a piece of dirt.
(CROSSTALK)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The thought of baby Eliza dead at the bottom of a dumpster. Look at her. Look at her. A man was looking for recyclables, cans,
plastic, digging through a dumpster when he finds a tiny baby`s body. He thought she was a baby doll at first. It`s baby Eliza.
Straight out to Andrew Edwards with the "Long Beach Press Telegram." Andrew, thank you for being with us. What happened?
ANDREW EDWARDS, LONG BEACH PRESS TELEGRAM: Well, very few details have been released thus far. What we know is there was a shooting at a
North Long Beach duplex on Saturday evening. Police responding found three people, the girl`s parent and an uncle wounded by gunfire. The father, as
I recall, was able to tell the police that his daughter had been taken. Police very quickly turned to the public to help find the child. As you
know tragically this took a turn for the worst on Sunday when baby Eliza`s body was found in San Diego County, and there is an active search for the
killer right now.
GRACE: Now, what can you tell me, Andrew, about a description of the people that took the baby?
EDWARDS: There is very little that`s been publicly released. The police chief had said it`s a dark complexion man. Only believed to be one
shooter. The police department is working on getting a sketch together. I`m told it may be available by the end of the week. But that will depend
upon the quality of witness information that comes forward in the course of the next few days.
GRACE: So all of the adults in the home are shot and they leave with the baby girl, is that right? You have got the mother shot, the father
shot, the uncle shot, and the perp leaves with the baby?
EDWARDS: That is the information that has been made public, yes.
GRACE: Huh. And then the baby is found over 100 miles away dead in a dumpster. How much later was the baby found?
EDWARDS: It was less than 24 hours. It unfortunately took place over a short period of time. We do not know, at least we do not publicly know -
- the autopsy has been sealed -- we do not know the cause of death.
GRACE: Now that`s very unusual that we don`t know the cause of death. Unleash the lawyers. Joining me tonight out of Washington, D.C., Peter
Odom. Also with me, Randy Kessler, defense attorney, Atlanta. OK, Peter Odom, obviously whoever did this is looking at the death penalty. There`s
no doubt about that.
ODOM: California has a death penalty. They`re not shy about invoking it. And to kill a child is one of the things that can invoke that death
penalty. So when they catch him, and I pray they do, he`ll be looking at lethal injection.
GRACE: Randy Kessler, there`s something not fitting together for me in this story. I don`t understand why I don`t have a description of the
perp. You take my child. Shoot me. Shoot my husband. Shoot my brother. I`m going to have a description unless you`re wearing a mask, and there`s
nothing to suggest that this guy is wearing a mask.
KESSLER: There`s something going on. The police know something is going on. That`s why there is a high reward. You don`t typically
automatically just shoot out a $25,000 reward for information. They think people out there know more than we`re being told.
GRACE: I don`t know what you mean by that.
KESSLER: When you put out a reward, you are saying we think someone will come forward and tell us information. This is not a random act of
violence, is what we`re hearing. If there`s reward money out there, it is because somebody must have heard somebody talking about it. If someone
just drove by and said I`ll break into this house and commit a random act of violence, that`s a lot harder to catch.
GRACE: It`s a problem for me, in the sense that I`m agreeing with you. To Marc Klaas, president and founder of KlaasKids foundation. Mark,
I don`t get the motivation. You break in and you shoot the mother, the father and the uncle. You take the baby and then you kill the baby? I
don`t understand the motivation. We don`t have the cause of death. We don`t know what torture, if any, was inflicted on this baby.
KLAAS: Oh my God, no, we don`t know that, Nancy. I have to agree with your previous guest that this was not a random act. This is probably
some kind of a bad debt or some kind of a vendetta, and there`s a lot of fear and hate and loathing going on, and perhaps the survivors of this
attack are just afraid of further retribution should they identify this individual. I really don`t know.
GRACE: Mark Klaas, that`s exactly what we`re learning. The family is so afraid the perps are going to come back on them if they continue talk to
police, if they give a description, that they are afraid to even give a description. Marc, where are we living, where a family, a mother and
father, are afraid to give this guy`s description because they`re not getting protection. They`re afraid he`s going to come back on them if they
give his description to police.
KLAAS: We`re living in a society where great violence is inflicted upon the population on a regular basis. We`re also living in a society
that allows witness protection, so perhaps these people can be put into a witness protection program if that will assist in recovering the killer.
GRACE: Out to Dr. Panchali Dar. Doctor, thank you for being with us. Why don`t we have a cause of death?
DAR: Nancy, we`re waiting for a full declaration of the autopsy. It takes time for all of this to be evaluated. But just thinking about the
case, this poor child was put into this horrific situation, snatched from its parents, and this innocent child I would imagine was either dehydrated
or dropped its body temperature or maybe even beaten and thrown into the dumpster, suffocating, asphyxiating inside a plastic bag with the weight of
all of the other garbage on top of it. This child may have been crushed by garbage.
GRACE: Now to tonight`s case alert. Good news. After covering the search for a missing Connecticut girl here on our show, she is found safe.
Teen girl Carolyn Lindsey reported missing September 12th. She is brought home safely. The case brought to our attention by "The View`s" Rosie
O`Donnell.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROSIE O`DONNELL: Nancy Grace, thank you so much. Carolyn and her boyfriend are back home safe, thanks to seeing themselves on "Nancy Grace."
I love you, Nancy Grace. Thank you very much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Okay. Let`s test your crime IQ. We`ve covered countless crime cases here on this show, but how many details do you remember? Put
on your investigator`s hat, take out your fine tooth comb. Take a look at these old cases. Let`s test crime IQ. Look at this crime scene. I`ve
posted it on Facebook and Twitter so you can get a closer look. Do you remember which murder face this photo comes from? Phil Spector, Jeffrey
Dahmer, or Scott Peterson? Tweet or Facebook your answers using the hashtag crimeIQ. I will reveal one of the winners here on the show
tomorrow night. All you legal eagles, you`ve got 24 hours. Go.
And PS, did you know you can now watch Nancy Grace live on your mobile device? iPad, cell phone. Go to your app store and download HLN to go.
Username, password, you get that from cable providers, get the Nancy Grace live broadcast wherever you want to go.
And now live to Ohio suburbs. A little girl goes missing. Police are on the lookout, a BOLO for this man, 27-year-old Walter Dunn.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police are frantically searching for a missing 13- year-old girl, Kaitlin Walters, who was last seen leaving her home. Her family has not seen her since, and is extremely worried about her
whereabouts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Bob Morehead, staff writer with the "Post" newspaper. So this little girl is believed to be with a wanted man, Walter
Lee Dunn, age 27?
BOB MOREHEAD, POST NEWSPAPERS: That`s correct. She left her house sometime the morning of December 30th and hasn`t been seen since. And
investigators were able to piece together information from notes she left behind from an online relationship she had with Walter Dunn. And they
believe she is with him.
GRACE: Mr. Morehead, please don`t dignify it by saying relationship. This guy is almost 30 years old, she`s 13. I mean, this guy is a 27-year-
old, BOLO, be on the lookout for Walter Lee Dunn. Police are looking for him now. With me, writer with the Post newspapers, Bob Morehead. So Bob,
I understand that in the last hours, his car has been found abandoned in Knoxville, Tennessee with the plates removed. I mean, if this were all on
the up and up, if he were taking her on a scenic tour, he wouldn`t be ditching his vehicle and hiding the plates. Bob Morehead, they pieced it
together you say by looking at her social media?
MOREHEAD: Yes. Well, by notes that she left behind in her room, they were able to piece together this social media relationship that she had
gotten with this fellow.
GRACE: To Faith Walters, special guest joining me right now. This is Kaitlin`s mother. Thank you for being with us.
FAITH WALTERS, MOTHER: Thank you, Nancy.
GRACE: Faith, I know you believe that your daughter is alive. Have you heard from her?
WALTERS: No, we haven`t heard from her at all.
GRACE: Who is this guy? How did he get into her life?
WALTERS: We don`t have any knowledge of this guy at all. He`s never been in our home, we`ve never heard of anything until she came up missing.
We knew nothing about him.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: BOLO, be on the lookout for a 27-year-old man, believed to be with a 13-year-old girl. Caryn Stark, explain to me how this happened.
STARK: Nancy, unfortunately it happens a little too often. I wish that there was something we could do about it. And the most that parents
can do really is to make sure that they are in touch with who their children communicate with, and don`t give them free access to the Internet,
to a computer, to really watch this. Because there are older men that look for young girls. And young girls at that age are very susceptible.
GRACE: You know, to you, Faith Walters, the mother of Kaitlin. Did you have any clue that she was communicating with this guy online?
WALTERS: No. We had no clue. I mean, the only -- we have our computer locked up so she can`t get on it constantly. She had an iPod that
she used, and we would monitor what we were able to see on there. We know about Facebook, but you`ve got so many of these other programs that we
really don`t even know how to run them. And when we looked, we didn`t see anything. And I know when we were able to, when she did show up missing,
we were able to hack into her account, and all of her information had been wiped clean.
GRACE: Oh, no. Oh, no. Mark Klaas, C.W. Jensen both with us, as well. C.W., retired police captain, you can`t call this a relationship.
She`s a little girl. She just turned 13. This guy is nearly 30, for Pete`s sake.
JENSEN: Regardless of the worst case scenario is that there`s a sexual assault occurring, it`s illegal what he`s doing. He`s kidnapped
her. He has no right to take this girl anywhere and she has no ability to consent. If you see the guy, he is committing a felony, call the police.
And I think that`s how they`re going to get caught. And remember, the girl may lie. I think Mark will back me up on that. The girl may already have
the story that she`s supposed to tell anyone that asks.
GRACE: At some point, Mark Klaas, she`s going to realize how much danger she`s in. Because for a guy who is nearly 30 years old, to be
making off with a girl that just turned 13, I mean, there`s no way to describe that in any other way than kidnap and assault.
KLAAS: Well, you`re absolutely correct. This guy is more than twice as old as she is. And at some point, she might get very tired of this game
with this immature individual. And quite frankly, Nancy, I think that social media can play a huge part in recovering this girl. It played a
huge part in her disappearance. And if people just keep sharing this information and sharing this information, somebody is going to see him and
somebody is going to put two and two together and she`ll be brought home safely.
GRACE: Faith, if your message could be heard by your daughter tonight, what do you want to tell her?
WALTERS: We want to tell her that we love her so much, and she is so amazing and we just want her home. And we want her safe and everything can
be worked out.
GRACE: Ms. Walters, our prayers go on that Kaitlin be brought home. I can`t even imagine going home and one of my children being gone. I hear
you. Tip line is 3302875750. Please help us bring Kaitlin home.
We remember tonight American hero Marine Lance Corporal Steven Morris, 21, Lake Jackson, Texas. Purple Heart, National Defense Service. Loved to
surf and spreading the gospel. Parents Lloyd and Anna, sisters Kristen and Catherine, brother Jonathan. Steven Morris, American hero.
Drew up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.
END
