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Nancy Grace
Legal Pot a Hazard or Not?
Aired January 13, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. We go live. Pot enthusiasts, AKA potheads, stoners, tonight demanding pot must be legal.
Bombshell tonight. To Colorado. Police say a couple sit on the front porch high on pot while their 3-year-old dies just inside when the home
burns down to the ground in a horrific blaze.
Then Michigan, a 3-month-old baby with a 102-degree fever dies in the baby`s roach-infested crib, Mommy and Daddy accused of getting stoned in
the next room. And tonight, caught on video, Mommy turns her baby into a pothead, allegedly forcing the 2-year-old child to get high. And to
Canton, a middle school teacher is accused of teaching a lot more than reading, writing and arithmetic, busted with her husband, the two accused
of encouraging children to smoke weed there in their own home.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The home goes up in flame, killing a little 3- year-old girl inside alone. Police say Mommy and her boyfriend were drinking and smoking pot just before the blaze began. By the time they
noticed the fire, it was too late.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A cell phone captured video of her teaching her 2-year-old how to smoke pot.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And St. Petersburg, when his ex finally moves on with an engagement to another man, does Daddy throw their 5-year-old little girl,
Phoebe (ph), off the Tampa Bay Bridge to her death? Tonight, we want Justice!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) child over a bridge.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The child was thrown about 60 feet into the water.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A dad threw his daughter out of his car off the bridge and into the cold waters of Tampa Bay.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put the child`s face toward his chest. Then he walked to the side of the bridge and he threw the child into the water.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s out of his mind, and he has a minor child with him, driving to a church now, and I (ph) should have kept the child.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. Pot enthusiasts, AKA potheads, stoners, tonight demanding pot must be legal. To Colorado, police say a couple sit on their
front porch high on pot while their 3-year-old dies just inside when their home burns down to the ground in a horrific blaze. To Michigan, a 3-month-
old baby with a 102-degree fever dies in the baby`s roach-infested crib, Mommy and Daddy accused of getting stoned in the next room.
And caught on video, Mommy turns her baby into a pothead, allegedly forcing her 2-year-old child to get high. And then Canton, a middle school
teacher is teaching a lot more than reading writing and arithmetic, busted along with her husband, the two accused of encouraging children to smoke
weed in the teacher`s home.
Straight out to Noam Laden with WABC. Noam, I want to talk to you first about the couple who get high on the front porch as their child dies
inside in a horrific house blaze. What happened?
NOAM LADEN, WABC RADIO (via telephone): This is just, you know, such a heart-breaking story. So this couple, Christine Breg (ph) and Dustin
Blanchard (ph), they`re out on the front porch of their home. They`re drinking. They`re smoking bud. And that`s when Daddy Dustin decides to go
for a walk in the neighborhood to a friend`s house.
Inside the home, by the way, is their 3-year-old child. Just moments later, Kristen (ph), his -- his the significant other, decides she`s going
to go look for Dustin, and they leave the 3-year-old all alone in this home.
When they finally make their way back to the house, it`s on fire. And you can imagine just the ultimate panic that takes hold. The mom tries to
-- Kristen tries break into the house through an air conditioner by yanking an air conditioner out of the home. She isn`t able to get in that way.
Finally, the dad, Dustin, and a friend are able to get into the home. But at that point, this poor 3-year-old, Lilay (ph), is dead, 60 percent
burns on the body of this child. And the father comes out but -- and he survives, but this poor 3-year-old dies.
GRACE: With me, Noam Laden from WABC. And joining me right now, a superstar in his own right, known as 2 Chainz, also Tauheed Epps, also Tity
Boi with us, from my old stomping grounds, College Park, Georgia, now one of the most famous rap stars in the world.
You know, 2 Chainz, first of all, thank you for being with us. You`re a star. So many people, so many teens, so many young adults look up to
you. Can I ask you, when you hear about cases like this, why do you still support the legalization of marijuana? Because, you know, I know your
persona is different from your rap persona. I know, for instance, you graduated with a 4.0, that you got a scholarship.
That`s 2 Chainz, "Happy Birthday," Def Jam Records. Why do all the guys have on regular clothes and the women have on skintight (INAUDIBLE) I
don`t know the answer to that.
But why do you advocate legalization of pot when you hear stories like what I`m talking about?
2 CHAINZ, HIP-HOP ARTIST: Well, from the story that I just heard you talk about, they were -- they had alcohol included, which we all know, you
know, causes you to black out, forget things and have memory loss. They also dealt with irresponsible people. I don`t think that you could put an
umbrella on the whole community off these few incidents that you just named. So first...
GRACE: Well, what -- what community is that, the potheads?
2 CHAINZ: The smokers, the stoners community. I just feel like you can`t use these particular stories...
GRACE: OK, so Mommy and Daddy...
2 CHAINZ: ... to define everybody that has recreational use.
GRACE: I`m not defining everybody, OK? So don`t throw me in that pot and stew me. What I`m saying is, legalizing pot ends up in stories like
this. And you, with so many people looking up to you, advocate legalization of pot. And I don`t get it.
I mean, I`ve seen video of you smoking a big fat dooby. I mean, I`ve read your lyrics. I know what you say in your songs. But when you hear
stories like the mom and dad on the front porch, the baby dies in a fire -- then my next story -- everybody, that`s 2 Chainz`s Twitter account. That`s
him smoking pot.
And while I have you, why the 2 Chainz? Just curious.
2 CHAINZ: 2 Chainz was obviously my second time, you know, coming around as far as a rapper. My first name was Tity Boi, but the name came
from an internal thing with my mom, me being an only child, me being a spoiled brat, me being breast-fed, so the whole family called me Tity Boi.
But then when it was time for me to really go out here and make a name for myself, I figured, like, 2 Chainz because significant (ph) could obviously
mean this would be my second chance, one chain being who I am and another chain basically being what I strive to be. So it has a little deeper
meaning...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... your lyrics, you say, "I don`t fear death or dying, I only fear not trying."
2 CHAINZ: Yes.
GRACE: And some of your lyrics are so incredible. But then other of your lyrics advocate a different kind of lifestyle, a different kind of
lifestyle that I don`t think you would want little children exposed to. I mean, do you have children?
2 CHAINZ: I have two beautiful little girls, and I`m a great father. I just feel like, you know, everybody should basically take care of your
own. You have kids, too, as well, right?
GRACE: I do.
2 CHAINZ: So it`s about governing your own household. It`s about taking care of your own property. It`s about having some kind of structure
in anything (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: I hear you. I hear you, 2 Chainz.
2 CHAINZ: I know you hear.
GRACE: I hear you. But what I`m saying to you is this. People listen to you. And while you may be able to get high, and your children
are kept away from that and they are not growing up like that -- is my guess, is my hope -- other people don`t have the advantages that you have.
OK, Liz, show me the video of Jessica Gamble (ph) out of Ohio. This mom -- look at this, 2 Chainz -- this mom making her 2-year-old child smoke
pot. Watch this. I want you to watch it. Look at this baby.
2 CHAINZ: That`s what I was telling you earlier about trying to classify her as something that we would all do once we would smoke a joint.
I feel like she was irresponsible. I feel like she was a bonehead. That was an imbecile move. Anybody that loves their kid definitely knows not to
put them in harm`s way, and that`s what she did. So I don`t agree with that at all. I mean, she may have mental issues. It might be something
deeper than a joint, I believe.
GRACE: Well, you know what? There is something deeper than a joint, and that`s well put because what she`s doing is child abuse. And what I`m
trying to say to you is that if this is legalized, then everybody is going to have unlimited to access to pot. And unlike other people that are
responsible, irresponsible child abusers are going to have...
2 CHAINZ: Oh! I`m not...
GRACE: ... free access!
2 CHAINZ: ... sure if you know, but everybody has the ability to get their hands on pot right now, whether it`s legal or not. I just feel like
if you legalize this particular drug, it could cut out certain things in the criminal justice system as far as...
GRACE: Like what?
2 CHAINZ: ... the overcrowding of prisons, as far as putting us on our criminal record to prevent us from getting loans, prevent us from
getting homes.
GRACE: Well, here`s my answer to that, 2 Chainz...
2 CHAINZ: Just the whole thing around recreational weed is not making any sense to me.
GRACE: If you want to qualify...
2 CHAINZ: We`re living in a...
GRACE: ... for a home...
2 CHAINZ: We`re living in a...
GRACE: ... then why don`t you just not smoke pot?
2 CHAINZ: We live in...
GRACE: Why don`t you just not get arrested?
2 CHAINZ: We`re in a deficit right now. We got to try to find ways on getting out. So I figure if we got half of the states legalizing pot,
if the rest of the community legalizes pot, that frees up taxpayers` money. That allows us to do something with the extra funds as far as fixing
everything from...
GRACE: I don`t know what you`re saying about...
2 CHAINZ: ... a pothole in the street...
GRACE: ... freeing up...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... taxpayers` money. What do you mean, free up taxpayers` money? What is that?
2 CHAINZ: Well, for me, I`m a taxpayer, OK?
GRACE: OK.
2 CHAINZ: And I have one example from me. I`m a taxpayer.
GRACE: Yes?
2 CHAINZ: My bus get pulled over and they say they smell weed, like they do all the time, OK? They find a ground (ph) on my bus that has .01
of residue inside of it. OK, they lock me up, they strip me, they try -- and then they find out I`m a rapper and they want to know how fine is Nicki
Minaj. They want to take pictures, and they want to let me go.
They obviously charge me with .01. I go to court. I go to trial. And then they say, Do you pack your own bags? Is this your grinder (ph)?
I tell them no. Well, who pack your bags? They find out my security does it. They drop my case, and then they pick it up on my security, who
obviously beats the case.
If that`s not a waste of taxpayers` time and money, I don`t know what it is.
GRACE: All right. I`m not disagreeing with you that that was a big, big todo about finding what, one joint. But what I`m talking to you
about...
2 CHAINZ: Not even one joint.
GRACE: OK. Fine. It wasn`t even a joint. The point is...
2 CHAINZ: Wasn`t even a joint. Complete waste of my money and time.
GRACE: What I`m talking to you about is something different. Now, I know you don`t want to see this because it`s not fitting with your
argument, all right? And what you`re saying is not fitting with my argument, all right? Liz, show him. Let`s go with Crystal Weber (ph), a
mom and her friends giving the 2-year-old daughter pot and letting the kid smoke pot. OK, everybody is not responsible, 2 Chainz. Everybody
shouldn`t have...
2 CHAINZ: OK.
GRACE: ... free access to go get pot like you get orange juice at the grocery store, like you order it up like a pizza! Look at this child!
2 CHAINZ: I don`t even give my -- I don`t even give my daughter a drink, caffeine, at 2 years old.
GRACE: Me, neither.
2 CHAINZ: And I feel like it may be too strong for them. So I mean, that`s just something that you have to govern in our own household.
GRACE: Look! Look! Look! Look!
2 CHAINZ: Everyone knows that this is obviously wrong.
GRACE: Look! Lu-look! Lu-look! Look! Look at -- you`re looking at the camera. Look at the monitor. Do you see that child?
2 CHAINZ: Now, this kid may need marijuana when he`s about 16 because he may, you know, have some other things going on. But Obviously, you
know, 2 years old...
GRACE: I don`t even know what you`re talking about. Now, let`s just talk about you for a minute.
2 CHAINZ: You know what I`m talking about.
GRACE: You went to college -- you went to college...
2 CHAINZ: You know what I`m talking about.
GRACE: ... on a sports scholarship, did you not?
2 CHAINZ: Yes. And I`m very intelligent. And smoking pot for me...
GRACE: Can I get back to you in high school...
2 CHAINZ: You can.
GRACE: ... when you were 16 and you were on a basketball scholarship, as I recall?
2 CHAINZ: Yes.
GRACE: Were you using pot then?
2 CHAINZ: Uh-uh. I was -- I was selling pot then.
GRACE: You were an athlete.
2 CHAINZ: Yes. I was selling pot then.
GRACE: And would you want your children to do that?
2 CHAINZ: No. But it was a means for me...
GRACE: And why is that?
2 CHAINZ: It was a way of living for me.
GRACE: Why don`t you want your children to do it, man?
2 CHAINZ: Because I did it for them. I sacrificed that so they won`t have to do that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) do it again.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A 3-year-old died when her home goes up in flames. The couple smoked pot. A teacher is accused of providing a place for kids
to get high, her own house! A little 3-month-old child is beaten and left for dead while Dad gets high, according to police.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back. Tonight, pot enthusiasts, AKA stoners and potheads, are demanding that pot be legalized all across the country. I`m
not talking about medicinal pot for people, patients that are suffering, that are in pain, that need or want pot to ease their ailment. That`s not
what we`re talking about. We`re talking about legalizing recreational marijuana. Is it going to work? And I say no.
Joining me tonight, world-renowned rapper 2 Chainz, also known as Tity Boi, also known as Tauheed Epps.
2 CHAINZ: Tauheed Epps, yes. I like that one, too.
GRACE: And -- yes, long story short, he advocates legalization of marijuana, and I say no. You`re seeing 2 Chainz right there with Jason
Derulo, "Talk Dirty to Me" from Warner Music.
Joining me right now, Brad Lamm, addiction specialist and founder of Breathe Life Healing Centers. Also with me, Norm Kent, former president,
National Organization for Reform of Marijuana Laws.
All right, Brad Lamm, Norm Kent, thank you for joining me, and 2 Chainz.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Happy new year.
GRACE: First of all, to you, Brad Lamm. When you hear someone as renowned, as famous, as successful as 2 Chainz say he did it but he doesn`t
want his daughters to do it, what does that say to you, Lamm?
2 CHAINZ: You know I didn`t say that.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: OK. Whoa-whoa. Wa-wait! Let him clarify.
(CROSSTALK)
2 CHAINZ: I don`t want my daughters to do at it 2 years old. I decided I didn`t want my daughters to do it at 2 years old. Who knows what
they might need for therapeutic reasons. Who knows what happen 10, 20 years from now. But I`m speaking for myself now and governing my own
household.
You keep showing this tape of this 2-year-old, this same tape, but I`m sure we can find footage of someone giving their child alcohol, way more
footage than...
GRACE: OK, hold on.
2 CHAINZ: ... this little one...
GRACE: Please put him up.
2 CHAINZ: ... tape you got of this kid right here.
GRACE: OK, hold. Hold. So...
2 CHAINZ: Now you want to pipe me down.
GRACE: No! I want you to use your brain for a minute, and let me ask you this. Are you telling me, 2 Chainz, that my only two choices are get
my child high on pot or get it drunk on booze? How about neither one? How about it not legal for recreational use...
2 CHAINZ: I didn`t say that.
GRACE: No, you said -- you said you`re showing video of a kid getting high on pot.
2 CHAINZ: But that`s all (INAUDIBLE) what you`re using, Nancy. I can`t help that`s all really...
GRACE: Because it`s true!
(CROSSTALK)
2 CHAINZ: ... you`re using this one example, and I`m trying to tell you that you...
(CROSSTALK)
2 CHAINZ: ... you just Googled that footage, Google someone giving their child alcohol, and I bet it`d be hundreds of pages to go through. So
that`s just my point.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And just to support that...
GRACE: And your point also is, OK, it`s bad to give a kid pot. And PS, we`ve shown you multiple videos. Wipe those lenses off, and you can
see many children getting abused. But you`re saying -- OK, I`m showing you a kid using pot, being forced pot. Then there are other people giving
alcohol. How about neither one? Is that not an alternative, 2 Chainz?
2 CHAINZ: You`re not listening...
GRACE: Why can you not give a kid anything?
2 CHAINZ: Nancy, point is -- my point is alcohol is legal. And it`s still wrong. You`re trying to flip and twist what I`m saying.
GRACE: No, I`m not!
2 CHAINZ: You know exactly what I`m saying. You know where I`m coming from.
GRACE: You`re saying you don`t even give your children caffeine. I don`t, either. They have never been given a Coke, a Pepsi.
2 CHAINZ: Ever. Ever.
GRACE: ... a Sprite, anything...
2 CHAINZ: Mine, neither...
GRACE: ... ever!
2 CHAINZ: ... ever.
GRACE: So why does a man like you, who won`t even let his daughters have a Coca-Cola or a Pepsi, and you`re advocating the legalization of
marijuana! It doesn`t fit together! So if you`re saying that it`s OK to legalize marijuana, then why not legalize heroin?
2 CHAINZ: I mean, I just feel like the drug and the recreational use -- and we are talking about marijuana, something that is natural and does
have medicinal purposes, even though we`re talking about the recreational purposes. I don`t see anything good coming out of extensive use of heroin,
Molly, cocaine and other drugs, even tobacco with cigarettes. I`m against all of them, to be honest. But with marijuana...
GRACE: Wa-wa-wait! Did I just hear you -- whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa! Stop! Stop! Freeze! Did you say you`re against all of it? Because I`m
pretty sure that`s what you just said.
2 CHAINZ: Yes.
GRACE: Then why are you supporting the legalization of pot.
2 CHAINZ: I was about to tell you until you rudely disrupted me.
GRACE: Go ahead. I`m sorry.
2 CHAINZ: You`re forgiven. I said that legalizing pot for me and my personal use, me speaking for me personally, like you keep using this one
event with the 2-year-old -- for me, it helps with anxiety. It helps with being someone that has shows in front of 50,000, 60,000 people, who have do
meet-and-greets and be friendly and cordial to thousands of fans. It helps with relaxation. It helps with appetite. It helps with nausea when you`re
on a flight from here to Africa, 16 hours strait. It helps with rest. It helps with sleep.
So for certain people, it has this positive effects for that. And so that`s where I`m coming from. I can`t say that heroin makes you -- you
know, I`m not sure what it does. But I can`t say and speak for a drug that that -- as we all know, is very detrimental to someone. We`ve never had
one case ever in the world documented of someone OD`ing overdosing on the use of marijuana.
GRACE: OK, I agree with you that I`ve never heard of anyone OD`ing on marijuana, but I have heard and have covered cases where people use
marijuana and then they commit a violent act. Hold on, before you get crazy on me.
Unleash Norm Kent, and to Brad Lamm -- Brad, you were jumping in earlier and you were saying what?
BRAD LAMM, ADDICTION EXPERT: Well, so 2 Chainz is a successful pot smoker. That`s awesome. So he can do it safely, like many people can
drink, and not have a problem. But he`s missing the 1 in 5 people who will start smoking pot as an adolescent and get really sick for whom pot is a
gateway drug and it`s very disruptive to the kind of live they and their families want them to have.
2 CHAINZ: And I`m looking at you now, and you do something. Yes, you do something yourself. You`re sneaking and geeking yourself. I`m looking
at you, and you`re trying to act like you didn`t have a little shot before you came on here or do some -- see, what it is...
GRACE: OK, Brad...
(CROSSTALK)
2 CHAINZ: There`s a lot of functional addicts out here...
LAMM: ... I was trying to be respectful...
(CROSSTALK)
2 CHAINZ: ... so you can smell that marijuana, so you know it`s on our clothes. We can`t smell when you`re around here sneaking and geeking.
GRACE: Actually, what he is...
LAMM: No, the truth is I`ve been clean and sober for 12 years.
GRACE: ... is he`s a recovered addict. That`s what he is.
LAMM: You`re making a joke about it. And I was saying that many people will use pot recreational and have just a darned nice time doing it.
For them, it`ll be just like how they introduce alcohol into their lives. It`s a social thing. It`s a positive thing for their lives.
But you seem to dismiss the people that sit out front while their kid gets burned in the house. You seem to dismiss the people that do really
stupid things when they`re on pot, the people that like -- opposite of you, they get more anxious. They get paranoid, and they get mentally ill
because of their relationship with marijuana.
GRACE: OK, hold. Hold, Brad. OK, Norm Kent. Your turn.
2 CHAINZ: Go, Norm.
NORM KENT, NORML: Nancy, it`s just great to listen to 2 Chainz ring your bell and have him get an opportunity to speak because he`s
articulating what millions and millions of Americans feel, which is that pot is perfectly normal. You know, in Denver, in the past year, while pot
has been legal in Colorado, murders are down 42 percent, and cops aren`t arresting and harassing young African-Americans with no probable cause.
What 2 Chainz is doing is articulating the voice of millions. And 2 Chainz, on behalf of NORML, thank you very much.
2 CHAINZ: Thanks, Norm.
LAMM: In the states around Colorado, they`re having an increase of driving while impaired. In fact, in the state of Colorado now, 12 percent
of people that are pulled over for driving while impaired are high on pot. That creates a very dangerous situation. So for all of you folks...
2 CHAINZ: What did the local government...
LAMM: ... that are so pro-pot...
2 CHAINZ: What did the local government say when they made $800 million? Did they say anything about the driving or anything? What`s
going on with that?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say parents were smoking pot while their 3- month-old died in a filthy, roach-infested crib after being beaten by Daddy, investigators finding marijuana in the home in the reach of small
children.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This home video shows a 2 and a 4-year-old boy smoking pot.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tonight, pot enthusiasts all over the country, AKA stoners and potheads, are demanding the legalization of recreational marijuana. I`m
not talking about medicinal marijuana, but I mean, that`s a whole `nother can of worms.
To you, Brad Lamm. I mean, didn`t they catch Heidi Montag (ph) and Spencer Pratt (ph), the reality stars, claiming they were ill and needed
medicinal marijuana -- they`re photographed going in and getting medicinal marijuana?
LAMM: I know lots of people that are dying from addiction that have medicinal marijuana cards. All you have to do is sort of have a pulse and
walk in and get a medicinal marijuana card.
GRACE: I`m not going to go off on a tangent, because we`re not talking about medicinal marijuana. That is for doctors, M.D.s to figure
out. I want to go back to 2 Chainz, renowned rapper. Renowned musician. Graduated 4.0 after getting a scholarship in basketball. And this is some
of his work. It may not be everybody`s cup of tea. But the man is a star.
2 CHAINZ: Pays the bills.
GRACE: And while he is -- he wants legalization of marijuana. But he would not expose his children. That is 2 Chainz on Jessie J`s song
"Burning Up" with 2 Chainz from Republic Records.
You keep saying I`m showing one video. But I want you to look at this. This is a guy named Melvin Blevins, let`s see the video, Liz,
please, where he goes and he pawns his camcorder.
2 CHAINZ: That was for crack.
GRACE: No, look. This is what they find on his camcorder. Check it out. That is him forcing his two-year-old to smoke pot.
2 CHAINZ: Well, I got something for you.
GRACE: So it`s not just one --
2 CHAINZ: I got something for you. I got something for you, Nancy.
GRACE: I`m ready.
2 CHAINZ: Let me tell you now, I`m from the urban community and from the inner city. And pawnshops are associated with a drug known as crack.
Most of the time when people pawn things, it`s not to buy a sack of marijuana. It is to feed a high that is much more strenuous than a strain
of weed. So I feel like that person was probably -- had a problem deeper than weed. And that is a problem there, but maybe they was high on crack
when they was doing that footage right there.
GRACE: Well, I know this. They were high on weed, I know that.
And when they searched the man`s home, they didn`t find crack. They didn`t find heroin.
2 CHAINZ: Because he couldn`t afford it. He`d been pawning it.
GRACE: They found weed.
OK, do you have a shred, a hair of evidence that says that man, who has had pled guilty on these charges, had a crack problem? No. You`re
just pulling that out of the air. Because you know somebody that pawned something to get crack. All right.
(CROSSTALK)
2 CHAINZ: Do you say he had the weed problem?
GRACE: Yes, yes, he did.
2 CHAINZ: Did you see him smoking weed on that? You know, you`re good, did you see him smoking weed on that? Let`s pull the footage back
up.
GRACE: Go right ahead. Roll video.
2 CHAINZ: Who`s actually shooting this? Let`s go to court, who was actually holding the camera?
GRACE: That I don`t know. But I think him forcing his baby to smoke pot.
2 CHAINZ: Are you sure it`s him forcing the baby? You know it`s not a baby sitter? Maybe it`s baby sitter. Maybe it`s an uncle. Maybe it is
a brother.
GRACE: I see his hand. And what you are doing right now is you are running all around me.
2 CHAINZ: I`m creating reasonable doubt.
GRACE: It`s too late. He`s already pled guilty. Reasonable doubt is over in this case.
2 CHAINZ: I would have taken it to trial, but personally I feel bad for him and the kid.
GRACE: There he is smoking spot and there he is giving the kid pot.
My point to you is you say there are reasonable people that can smoke pot, use pot, and they won`t involve their children, nobody else is going
to get hurt. But what about these people? That is what makes me keep arguing about this, 2 Chainz. People like this, this guy Melvin Blevins.
2 CHAINZ: It is the same thing we talked about earlier, darling. With the legalization of alcohol. You will find some footage like this.
But everybody is not doing this. Everybody won`t -- some people actually love their child. Some people know this is obviously wrong. So this is
nothing to really argue about. These people are imbeciles. You can`t use this case to define a whole community.
GRACE: I have a problem. As successful as you are. As rich as you are, as famous as you are, with this, smoking California weed with
California hoes. Excuse me. True. Left that one.
2 CHAINZ: True.
GRACE: Smoking California weed with California hoes. My weed so loud everybody listen. I`m so high like an addict. Good weed, bad bitch. All
right, you know what? I bet if somebody talked about your girls like this, you`re (inaudible).
2 CHAINZ: But we`re talking about recreational use of marijuana, what are we talking about, Nancy?
GRACE: What I`m saying is your lyrics.
2 CHAINZ: My lyrics pay the bills. Love, it`s real life. What you want me to talk about drinking and driving? What you want me to talk
about? Coffee?
GRACE: Legalization of marijuana. Legalization of marijuana. I`ll get you on coffee later.
2 CHAINZ: We`ll have a cup later.
GRACE: Yes.
2 CHAINZ: French vanilla.
GRACE: Decaf for you, my man. All right, let`s take a look at some of 2 Chainz lyrics. Let`s see him performing now.
(MUSIC)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: So much money on me, it won`t even fold. Some of the lyrics from one of our guests tonight. Joining me is 2 Chainz, renowned rapper.
Also with me, Norm Kent, Brad Lamm. Noam Laden, Diana Aizman and Patrick McDonough and Greg Cason. To all of you, thank you for being with us. The
point is marijuana aficionados across the world demanding that in the U.S., pot be legalized.
I want to show you video of teachers that actually give children pot in their home. Busted. A schoolteacher and her husband in their home
encouraging children to smoke pot. All right. Those are the allegations. Let me go to you, Justin Freiman. What happened in that?
FREIMAN: Nancy, according to police, they actually got tips from parents that this teacher was allegedly allowing teens to come to her home
to party. And by party I mean with some marijuana.
GRACE: OK, unleash the lawyers, Diana Aizman and Patrick McDonough. Diane, give me one reason that is right.
AIZMAN: Honestly, from what I understand, some of the kids were family members, and maybe they were just trying to provide a safe place for
these children to basically experiment with drugs.
GRACE: Really? If some were family members, what about the others?
MCDONOUGH: Let`s be clear. They have a tip here there might been partying going on. All they have found so far, the only evidence that has
been released, is that there were two people who were family members and there was some marijuana found. We are making a big jump that these people
are providing marijuana or that they are doing anything illegal other than possessing marijuana themselves. This is a leap.
GRACE: So smoking pot with your children and possibly students there, you don`t see a problem with that, Patrick?
MCDONOUGH: There is no evidence of that. What I`m telling you is police showed up there, and there were two people there that were relatives
that were not smoking pot, and they did find pot and then they put this sensational story together for you. But there is no evidence of that.
GRACE: Oh, so you`re saying the police put the story together for me.
MCDONOUGH: They often do, Nancy.
AIZMAN: That the parents made reports they think their kids may have been smoking marijuana with these teachers, when there is no actual
evidence to back that up.
MCDONOUGH: Right, it`s a tip. It`s all based on a tip.
GRACE: So you two think the kids, the children would tell their parents that and make it all up? Is that your premise? That the children
are lying.
MCDONOUGH: My premise is there was a different parent, a kid that said hey, this is what we`re doing over there. The police show up. There
are two 17-year-olds that were relatives, there was no evidence they were smoking marijuana. They found marijuana in the house, so they put this
kind of, linked it together. And said they were providing this to them. But there is really no evidence.
GRACE: Also accused tonight, a mother and friends giving a two-year- old daughter pot. I`m talking about Crystal Weber (ph) out of Wisconsin. Now with me is Norm Kent and Brad Lamm. Also with me 2 Chainz, renowned
rapper.
Okay, you keep saying that you are seeing the same kid. Take a look at this screen. Look at that. I`m showing you I don`t know how many
children the parents are giving pot, 2 Chainz. And I mean at some point, I mean, my stars, man. You graduated with a 4.0.
2 CHAINZ: They are doing this--
GRACE: You are a millionaire. You are successful. You are at the top.
2 CHAINZ: You ain`t lied yet. You ain`t telling no lie yet.
GRACE: You got to realize this is wrong.
2 CHAINZ: I admit that it is wrong. But it`s wrong if it was legal or if it was illegal. Giving your kid drugs is just wrong. We know that.
You don`t have to be a genius. You don`t have to graduate from school. You don`t have to be a successful artist or entertainer to know that giving
any child, not just your child, drugs is wrong. Nancy, you know that. I`m not going to argue with that.
GRACE: That`s what I`m saying, why would you even argue that it`s legal?
2 CHAINZ: I argue that it should be legal because we need some kind of revenue boost. I argue that it should be legal because.
LAMM: Your kids are going to be so confused growing up hearing you say the kind of lyrics, the kind of raps you do, and the way you make this
lifestyle look really, really amazing. Your kids I bet are going to be so confused.
2 CHAINZ: I doubt they`ll be confused. I expose my kids to a lot of things. They don`t have to listen to my music, but my kids are in a great
place right now. And I don`t feel like that.
LAMM: Do as I say not as I do?
2 CHAINZ: The relationship that I have with my kids is better than a relationship that I can even say -- I don`t know what you have going on in
your life, but you need to stop trying to critique mine. But what`s going on with my life is that I have a perfect relationship with my daughters.
I`ll always be there for them, not just for drug use but for other things they need to go moving forward in this society.
GRACE: OK, Norm Kent.
KENT: I think it`s outrageous for Brad to presume how 2 Chainz is going to raise his children.
GRACE: Don`t pick on him -- try to make your own point.
KENT: I can make my own point.
GRACE: Let`s hear it, man.
KENT: 2 Chainz`s children are going to grow up in a world where people use marijuana responsibly. Where they don`t go to jail unjustly,
where cannabis consumers are going to be lawfully protected, where government revenues are going to be remarkably enhanced, and we`re all
going to be a lot better off. Because free speech, marijuana smokers are coming out of the closet. Like gay people. And it is about time they
have.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Let`s test your crime IQ. We have covered thousands of criminal cases here on the show. But how many details do you really
remember? Look at this image. I posted it on Facebook and Twitter for a closer look. What color was Scott Peterson`s hair when he was arrested for
the murder of his wife Lacy? Brown, black, blonde, red. Tweet or Facebook your answer using the hashtag #crime iq. I`ll reveal one of the winners
tomorrow night. All your legal eagles, you have 24 hours, go. Guess what, you can watch Nancy Grace live now on your mobile device. Go to your app
store, download HLN to go to get the Nancy Grace live broadcast wherever you go.
Live, St. Petersburg. When his ex moves on with an engagement to another man, does daddy throw their five-year-old little girl Phoebe off
the Tampa Bay bridge to her death? Tonight we want justice.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He has a child with him. His daughter. He left my office. He came in with a Bible and started talking to me and saying
that I was the creator. I was God. He`s nuts.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Was this girl`s own father who threw her off the bridge, hopped out of the car, and tossed the kid off the bridge.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Dropped from about 62 feet high.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He is very sure she was alive before she was thrown.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you like me to hire an attorney to represent you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you sure?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to leave it in the hands of God.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Meredyth Censullo, investigative reporter. He throws his five-year-old little girl Phoebe off the Tampa Bay bridge to her
death. I know this because a police officer was on his tail, saw him do it. The officer called it in, jumped into the water to try and save the
girl`s life. But he couldn`t.
Is it true, Meredyth, that when this guy, John Jonchuck, gets to the edge of the bridge, he tries to get away from police? He knew what he was
doing was wrong?
CENSULLO: He pulled Phoebe out of the vehicle, held her to his chest, then right in front of that officer, dropped her over the bridge. She fell
60 feet. The officer, his first instinct was to go after Phoebe. So John Jonchuck simply got in his car and continued driving across the bridge, and
it was later that he was stopped by a couple of other officers. The first officer had called them when he initially saw Jonchuck driving past him in
a hurry on the bridge before that murder.
GRACE: To Dr. Michelle Dupre, medical examiner, pathologist out of Colombia. Thank you for being with us. Is there any way that we can tell
the cause of death, was a child already dead? Was the child alive when she was thrown over the bridge? Was she under any medication? What can we
tell?
DUPRE: Yes, Nancy. We should be able to tell all of those things. We should be able to tell if there was trauma before death, we can tell if
she drowned or if there was blunt force and she was already dead when she hit the water. We can also tell if she was under any influence of any
toxicology. We`ll get a toxicology report.
GRACE: Also with me in addition to Dr. Dupre is Dr. Greg Cason, a psychologist out of L.A. Dr. Cason, he`s had no history of any mental
illness treatment at all. He`s not being held in a psych unit. He`s going to get evaluated, but he`s not segregated from the GP, general population.
What does this tell you?
CASON: Well, that doesn`t tell me much, Nancy. It just says that he hasn`t received any treatment. There`s a good chance that he did have some
kind of a psychotic break or psychotic episode. There`s a lot of indication to prove that. In fact, the religious upbringing of -- the
religious call that he somehow the other person is God and that he`s going on the bridge and then dumping this child into the ocean or the water,
while a policeman was nearby, also shows that he was not aware that his actions were wrong at the time.
GRACE: I don`t know that he saw the police officer, Dr. Cason. And this is the other, let me throw this monkey wrench into your theory.
Meredyth Censullo, investigative reporter, joining me out of Tampa tonight, isn`t it true that his ex, the mother of the little girl, just moved on,
got engaged to another man, and what does he do, he throws their daughter off the bridge?
CENSULLO: Well, we do know that they`ve had a very troubled relationship. There have been past instances where there have been
domestic charges filed against both of them. So we know they had a very troubled relationship.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Did a father throw his own 5-year-old little girl off a Tampa Bay bridge to her death? Meredyth Censullo with me. Meredyth, I
understand the reason that the child was with the father is the mother was suffering from MS and had three other children in the home. She moves on,
gets engaged to somebody else, and he throws their daughter to her death off of a bridge. Is that correct?
CENSULLO: Well, we do know that the mom was diagnosed with MS while she was pregnant with Phoebe. We also know that the couple has not been
together for quite some time, and that Jonchuck was living with his parents, and we know that Jonchuck was exhibiting signs of distress in the
hours before he dropped Phoebe over the bridge.
GRACE: With me now is Melody Dishman, the friend of John Jonchuck. Melody, thank you for being with us. What can you tell me about John
Jonchuck?
MELODY DISHMAN, FRIEND OF JONCHUCK: I just know that when he never takes his medication proper, the way he`s supposed to, as prescribed, he
has multiple bad mood swings, his personality changes very bad. He was very aggravated and tends to yell, and he`s not the same.
GRACE: I know that he has multiple arrests for domestic abuse. What was his ailment, Melody? What was he suffering from, according to you?
DISHMAN: From what he would pretty much tell me before me and him started talking again in July of 2014, he pretty much would make himself
look like he`s the victim of domestic violence. He would pretty much say that Michelle would threaten him and just like call and make reports on him
saying that he`s abusing her and that it would be the other way around. He would just say that she`s the one who is out to get him.
GRACE: Ah. Okay. So Melody Dishman --
DISHMAN: He just wants you to think something that he`s not.
GRACE: I hear what you`re saying. Stacy Newman on the story, sounds like he`s crazy like a fox.
NEWMAN: Also too, the court hearing, he told the judge he did not want a court-appointed lawyer and the judge said God is not going to
represent you at trial. The second hearing, he clammed up and refused to speak with the judge, and he was appointed an attorney, Nancy.
GRACE: We`ll follow the case. This is what I know. I know his ex gets engaged to another man and he throws his 5-year-old girl Phoebe to her
death off the Tampa Bay bridge. That`s what I know.
Let`s stop and remember American hero, Army Specialist Joshua Sheppard, just 22, Quinton, Oklahoma, Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Army
Service Ribbon, loved the outdoors, woodworking, dreamed of a sawmill business. Mother Julie, stepfather Marty, four brothers including two
serving Army and Marines. Joshua Sheppard, American hero.
Special congratulations to proud parents Kim and Rob on the birth of their beautiful baby boy, Luca. Look at him. Everybody, Drew up next.
Real Housewives of Beverly Hills star Lisa Vanderpump (ph) with Drew. Everybody I`ll see you tomorrow night at 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then,
good night, friend.
END
