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Nancy Grace
Dream Car Couple Dead
Aired January 28, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. We go live in the desperate search for clues in the disappearance of Bud and June Runion.
Seemingly, they vanish off the face of the earth after they head to meet a mystery Craigslist poster who was selling their dream vintage car. They`ve
wanted this car since they married, since he was in the trenches in Vietnam.
At this hour, we confirm the search is over, Bud and June Runion found dead. When Bud and June don`t show up for a family get-together and their
cell goes to voicemail, family fears the worst.
Bombshell tonight. The couple`s GMC Envoy found submerged in water. Tonight, we confirm both Bud and June Runion shot dead, the bodies not in
the car, police refusing to disclose where the bodies were found. But tonight, all eyes on a local, Ronnie "Jay" Towns. But listen to this. His
family swears he`s innocent.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you have anything to do with this?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say the Runions were both shot in the head.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators have located two bodies.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Towns saw the couple`s ad on Craigslist asking for a vintage Mustang and used a prepaid cell phone to call the Runions to set
up the deal. But they don`t believe he ever had the car.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, live, (INAUDIBLE) PA. It all starts at local Kohls department store, a woman suspected of swiping a pair of plastic
earrings. Well, it ends with the woman, Roxanne Reimer (ph), being handcuffed by police, then somehow managing to get control of the police
squad car, ramming the squad car into her family`s car with them in it, then leading police on an explosive high-speed chase while handcuffed! We
have the video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That suspect, Roxanne Reimer, ramming her family`s car with the police cruiser she`s just stolen, hits dangerous
speeds within seconds to get out of a shoplifting charge.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Able to steal a cop car and take police on a high-speed chase with her hands cuffed behind her back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live, Houston suburbs, a 1-year-old baby girl at home in her crib, her nanny nearby, when a creepy, unfamiliar man`s voice begins
speaking to her there in the room with the baby. The voice, the voice of an adult male hacker hacking through the nannycam, spying on the little
baby.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, baby.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ashley Stanley (ph) was changing a diaper and heard a man talking to her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I heard someone talking on the camera monitor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A stranger managed to hack into the family`s wifi system and take control of the camera in the little girl`s bedroom.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s really scary.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, after a diagnosis of a simple flu, an 8-year-old little girl paralyzed. Why?
Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. We are live in the search for clues in the disappearance of Bud and June Runion, who seemed to vanish off the face of
the earth. They head to meet a mystery Craigslist poster selling their dream vintage car. Well, at this hour, tonight, we confirm the search off
Bud and June, found dead. Their GMC Envoy was found submerged in water. We can confirm both Bud and June Runion shot dead, but their bodies not in
the car, police refusing to disclose where the bodies were found. But tonight, all eyes on a local, Ronnie "Jay" Towns. Get this. His family
swears he`s innocent.
Straight out to Malcolm Johnson, reporter with CNN affiliate WGXA. Malcolm, thank you for being with us. I don`t understand why police will
not reveal where the bodies were found and in what body of water the Envoy was submerged. What do you know, Malcolm?
MALCOLM JOHNSON, WGXA CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Hi, Nancy. Thank you for having me, for starters. I think that`s all part of the
investigation. And in my time as a reporter, in making (ph) every investigation that I`ve worked, law enforcement is usually tight-lipped
about what is going on as they`re actively investigating certain incidents within the case. And I think that`s the case here.
But I have talked with some neighbors and folks who live in this very small town (INAUDIBLE) McRae, and they tell me that the body was off of
441. So I haven`t been able to pin down exactly where the body was. I`ve searched in the neighborhood that Ronnie was from. It`s a dirt road that
he lives on, and the entire neighborhood is actually a dirt road. But I haven`t been able to specify exactly where the body was. I`ve just had
neighbors tell me that law enforcement had been actively looking within that area within the last four to five days.
GRACE: With me is Malcolm Johnson from WGXA. Let`s see some of the terrain, Liz, please. We`re talking about an area, a very long, lonely
stretch of road and swampland. This is near the Okefenokee Swamp, where there are many, many bodies of water. We have not been able to get from
police which body of water the car was submerged. But we do know the two bodies were found, police refusing to tell us where.
Let`s see a shot of Okefenokee Swamp so we can explain to the viewers the kind of search terrain we`re talking about. This is the type of bodies
of waters that are in that area, in that vicinity for miles and miles around. When Malcolm Johnson is referring to 441, that`s old Georgia 41
that goes from Miami all the way to Buffalo. You`re seeing video from Georgia Department of Natural Resources.
Also with me, Ninette Sosa from Newsradio 106.7. Ninette, it`s my understanding that witnesses actually spotted the couple there in town,
that they had gotten that far in the search for their Mustang convertible. And they were not spotted, however, with the suspect. The suspect is
Ronnie Adrian "Jay" Towns. He was never spotted with them. What do you know, Ninette?
NINETTE SOSA, NEWSRADIO 106.7 (via telephone): On their way into that town, they did stop at a store to look for directions. And that store
owner actually feels a little bit guilty thinking that he`s basically the last person to talk with them prior to arriving to their final destination
at -- in search of the car over there in McRae. So the store owner on their way to Telfair, they had to ask -- stop to ask for directions.
GRACE: Everybody, you`re seeing video from WAGA. That`s the Runions` car. That`s the GMC Envoy at the crime scene. Now, a crime scene. This
is a secondary crime scene. This GMC Envoy was submerged in the water. The bodies of Bud and June Runion were found elsewhere. Now, what does
that tell us about the crime?
Again, the family is insistent that their brother did not do this. We spoke to his sister. She says that her heart is breaking not only for the
Runions, but for them, too, that her brother is not a monster and he did not do this.
Now, why has he been taken in on charges connected with their death? Let`s analyze what we know. Joining me is Michael Gast, founder of the
National Academy of Police Diving, out of New York, Robert Schalk, out of Washington, Peter Odom, out of New York, psychologist Caryn Stark.
First to you, Michael Gast. Let`s take a shot of that car, the GMC Envoy being pulled out of the water. This has just happened in the last
hours. Michael, what do you have to do in order to find the vehicle and get it out of the water?
MICHAEL GAST, NATIONAL ACADEMY OF POLICE DIVING: Well, first of all, to locate the vehicle, you normally need an air resource. So helicopters
are a great (INAUDIBLE) for that. They may have spotted the car from the air, or they may...
GRACE: But how?
GAST: ... have used side-scan sonar...
GRACE: How can you spot the car if it`s totally submerged in swamp water, which is practically black?
GAST: Well, because the shape of the car is -- you don`t actually see the car, you just see a distorted shape, which is usually rectangular. If
it`s four, five, six feet under water, the water is relatively clear, even though it`s black. Another way would be to use side-scan sonar, if they
were suspicious about a body of water, by pulling a side-scan behind the boat. And a third way would be to utilize divers, putting them in and
doing arc searches.
GRACE: OK, another thing, Michael Gast. We know the bodies were found elsewhere and that Bud and June were killed by gunshot wound. We
know that the suspect has a hunting and finishing license. Does that mean he has a weapon? Don`t know that yet. We don`t know of a weapon being
found.
What we do know is that these bodies have been found in a different location. Does that mean he lured them out of the car? Does that mean
they got out of car to talk about the dream Mustang, that they were shot? Does it mean he thought they had the money on them and shot them when he
realized they didn`t?
Back to Malcolm Johnson with WGXA. Isn`t it true that Bud and June had told their family they were not traveling with a lot of money, right?
JOHNSON: That I don`t know. I haven`t spoken with the family of Bud and June Runion...
GRACE: Hold on. I think we know the answer to that. Ninette Sosa, it`s my understanding that Bud and June`s children said their parents
didn`t travel with a lot of money that day.
JOHNSON: They did not. They had no cash, basically, on them, pretty much credit cards. So when they left town, the family was aware of that,
and the three daughters very aware their parents were heading south to go look at this car.
GRACE: OK, to Dr. Michelle Dupre, forensic pathologist. Dr. Dupre, this is very, very important forensically. There seem to be two crime
scenes, the one crime scene where the car is submerged, their Envoy -- they drove down from Marietta, Georgia, to this swamp area, Telfair County.
There`s that scene where the Envoy went into the water. The bodies were found elsewhere.
Now, that can be a help and a hindrance. If a lot of the evidence that`s in the Envoy has been submerged in water, OK, that`s not going to
help anything. However, the fact that there`s another primary crime scene where the shooting occurred could be very significant in getting answers in
this case, Doctor.
DR. MICHELLE DUPRE, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Absolutely, Nancy. That first crime scene is going to be very important because whenever we have a
personal crime like a homicide, the body of the victim is a crime scene. So that`s going to be very important to examine the bodies very carefully
and get any kind of trace evidence and any other kind of physical evidence that we may be able to get at.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Robert Schalk, Peter Odom. First to you, Peter Odom. Let`s analyze this, and I`m not saying that Ronnie Adrian
"Jay" Towns is guilty. He doesn`t have a rap sheet, family`s standing by him and...
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right.
GRACE: ... no witnesses place him with the couple. Now, this is what we do know. We know for a fact he`s the one that answered their ad. He`s
the one that had that cell phone. That doesn`t prove a murder.
ODOM: Right.
GRACE: Let me ask you this, Peter.
ODOM: Yes?
GRACE: Let`s just talk about the perp, not necessarily him, but whoever did this probably thought the couple had money with them, found out
they didn`t have money with them.
ODOM: Well, and we know that he had been laid off from his job recently, actually fired, and that he`d had financial difficulties. But
right now, Nancy -- and you know, I grant you, the police are being very tight-lipped about what they know. But from what they`ve released, they`ve
built a completely circumstantial case against someone...
GRACE: Why are you saying that? Because all they`ve got right now...
ODOM: Because it`s true, Nancy.
GRACE: ... is that he had the cell phone. I`m not defending him. I`m analyzing the case. And if you`re prosecuting or defending, you`ve got
to look at your case, plus the other side`s case, if you want to win. So right now, all we know is the bodies have been found. They were shot. We
know...
ODOM: And there`s a phone call...
GRACE: ... that there`s a secondary crime scene and calls back and forth with the suspect.
ODOM: There`s a phone call linking them.
GRACE: Right. I know that.
ODOM: So that`s it. So...
GRACE: I don`t think that`s enough.
ODOM: Right now, it`s really nothing. Now, my sense is that the police might have...
GRACE: I wouldn`t say it`s nothing.
ODOM: ... more -- the police might have more than they`re saying, but right now, it seems pretty thin.
GRACE: You`re seeing shots of Bud and June Runion. He lived his whole life -- a veteran for our country, fought in Vietnam, dreamed of
coming home, marrying his sweetheart and raising a family. That`s just what he did. Finally, he got his family grown, moved out, through school.
They`re married with their own families. He decides to buy his dream car.
In the last hours, we learned the search is off. Bud and June Runion`s bodies have been found in a secondary location. Tonight, will the
charges stick on Ronnie Adrian "Jay" Towns? His family swears he`s innocent.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We located a vehicle submerged in a lake of water.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Runions were both shot in the head with a small-caliber firearm, their bodies hidden near the lake where the Runions`
vehicle was submerged.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People say you planned to kill them from the beginning. What do you say?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I say I didn`t.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tonight, we learn more about the disappearance and now the death investigation into the shooting deaths of Bud and June Runion,
pictured here. They drive, after their Craigslist ad is answered, to take a look at their dream car, a `66 convertible Mustang, red on the outside,
black on the inside.
Instead, when their family calls them on their cell phone, it goes straight to voicemail, they know something`s horribly wrong. And they were
right. Their intuition was right. Bud and June have been found dead in a different location than where their car has been submerged in swampy water.
With me right now, a man that knew them well for many, many years. He says that Bud and June Runion have helped thousands of people, that all the
time, the driveway of the Runions` home would look like a bike shop because Bud would repair bikes to give them away.
Every Christmas, he and his wife loaded up their GMC and went driving through the poorest areas of the Appalachians to give children presents
that they had repaired and restored, to take food to families in the Appalachians that don`t have food. They spent their lives helping other
people. And now we learn they have been shot dead. And tonight, we want answers.
With me, Pastor Mark Walker from Mount Peron (ph) North Church of God. Dr. Walker, thank you for being with us. What can you tell us about the
Runions?
MARK WALKER, MURDERED COUPLE`S PASTOR (via telephone): Well, you just said it all, Nancy. They are the most generous, giving, loving people
anyone could ever meet. And they carried, as you said, food, clothes, even school supplies, all kinds of items to help meet needs in the Appalachian
area and around some of the poorest areas in Atlanta and Marietta.
But you know, even more than just some organized ministry that they started, this was their natural life. Even in their neighborhood where
they live, they would go to neighbors and say, Do you need food? Do you know of anybody that needs food? And they would provide food to neighbors
and other people that were in need.
We`ve been hearing stories of, like, cashiers at grocery stores that have shared that Bud would -- every time he came in, he would say to them,
Do you need money? He would give money to the people that worked there. This was just what their life was all about.
GRACE: What about their love for each other? They have defied the odds. They`ve been married for decades.
WALKER: Oh, yes, over 30 years. And they just adored one another. And you know, I think their last anniversary, I`m not exactly sure when
that was, Bud went out and pressure-washed in his driveway a big heart. And inside, he spelled "Bud and June." And that -- he brought her out that
there and showed her that. And it`s still in their driveway, I think, at this time.
They -- they love -- they`re great parents. Their daughters are beautiful, wonderful human beings, also carry this great giving, loving
spirit that their parents had.
GRACE: Everyone, you are seeing the home of Bud and June Runion tonight, their American flag that they loved at half-mast.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You understand the charges against you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I understand.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Robbery and murder of Bud and June Runion.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators say Towns lured the Cobb County couple to south Georgia through a Craigslist ad for a classic Mustang.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Intending to defraud (ph) Mr. Runion of any funds that he brought down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tonight, we are trying to analyze the clues that are left behind in the disappearance and death of Bud and June Runion. Unleash the
lawyers, Robert Schalk, New York, Peter Odom, Washington.
Robert, let`s talk about this. We know that as Peter said earlier and he is correct, they placed the ad for the `66 Mustang. Let`s see a shot of
that, everyone. They get into the car, they head down to MacRay, after this guy and it`s confirmed, this guy answers the ad, Ronnie Adrian J.
Townes, just got fired from his last job, we are trying to find out why. We know he had financial troubles, we know he had other troubles as well.
He answers the ad. He says he`s got the car. They drive down there. They are spotted in town but not with him, right? He is using a disposable
phone, but it is tracked back to him. That`s all we`ve got right now, Robert Schalk.
SCHALK: Right, Nancy, at least that`s all we`re being told they have. The prosecution, the police could have more. They are just being very
tight lipped about it. There is possibility that search warrants are being drafted and other evidence exists, and they just don`t want either of the
defendant or -
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Let`s try to deduce from what we`ve got. I mean, think about it. He answered the call, but to me, the most important fact is, he did
not have a Mustang, he did not have the car, so why did he lure them down there if it was not for a nefarious reason, Peter Odom? The fact that this
is not enough for a murder conviction, but think about it. Why did he lure them down there if he does not have a car?
ODOM: If it turns out that he`s the one that did it, that fact that he did not have the car, looks very bad for him.
GRACE: Very powerful.
ODOM: But none of that precludes another actor, someone else intervening.
GRACE: It does not. I understand all the arguments. You`re right. I get it. This is what a good lawyer does. You look at what you`ve got
and you analyze it and you turn it like a Rubik`s cube until you figure out what happened. Now, on the face of it, yes, all we`ve got is a cell phone
call. But put it in context. He brings them all the way down, a five-hour drive, for what? He does not have a car to sell. He tells them that he
has a car to sell, he`s got that car to sell. So what other purpose would there be for luring them down? He planned to at least rob them.
ODOM: On the face of it, Nancy, you are quite right, it looks like a robbery, but it`s starting to look that way, but there is not - there are
not enough puzzle pieces yet.
GRACE: No, there are not. But let`s talk about this. All right, they are found, we understand, from Malcolm Johnson, WGXA, that they are
found off O41 (ph). All right? That is a two-lane usually that goes all the way to the state of Georgia through Florida, all the way up to Buffalo,
I believe. All right. Look at where his home is and where they are searching, according to Johnson, that`s not very far. That`s another piece
of the puzzle.
ODOM: It`s a mile.
GRACE: Because you know as we all do that try cases, very often the perp is not far from home or far from his car or far from his work where
the crime scene is. Remember in Casey Anthony? Kaylee`s body was seven houses down from the Anthony home. That is an example. And here this
happens near his home, in his home town. He lures them down. He`s got a hunting license. They are killed with a gun, all right?
ODOM: Apparently we don`t have a gun yet. There is no murder weapon.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Live, Aliquippa, PA. It all starts at a local Kohl`s department store where a woman suspected of swiping a pair of plastic
earrings, and it ends with that woman, Roxanne Reimer (ph), being handcuffed by police, and then somehow managing to get control of the
police squad car, ramming it into her family`s car, with her family in it, and then leading police on an explosive, high-speed chase. While she`s
handcuffed. We have the video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: High speed ride is captured by dashcam.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Speeds reach 100 miles per hour down two-land roads, squeezing in and out of traffic, then handcuffs that are cinched
behind her back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She has the ability to beep the horn to get cars out of her way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK, I just heard a new fact. Solomon Jones, WURD, Solomon, she had her hands cuffed and cinched behind her back?
SOLOMON JONES, WURD RADIO: Yes, she had her hands cuffed, and her mother believes she drove the car with her knees, but according to at least
one report, police believe she was able to use her fingers and thumbs even while she was handcuffed to maneuver the vehicle.
GRACE: And all of this is over a pair of plastic earrings?
JONES: Yes, apparently so. The earrings were $16 earrings that she stole from the store.
GRACE: Take a look at this. Look at this. Here, she gets out of the car, she is still handcuffed behind her back, and she is running, running
for all she`s worth. Now take a look. Let`s analyze this. There you see Roxanne Reimer. She was detained after allegedly swiping a pair of plastic
earrings at Kohl`s. Somehow gets into the police squad car. This is her car. We`re showing you video of the dashcam in her car. Leading police on
a high speed chase. There you see it with speeds up to 100 miles an hour.
All right. Solomon Jones, what more can you tell us?
JONES: Well, it looks like she took those $16 earrings. She was stopped in the store by a loss prevention officer, gave them a fake name,
claimed to be a juvenile, and then was led outside. She actually ran away, jumped into a car driven by her grandfather, jumped out of there into the
police car, and the drama just went on from there.
GRACE: Let`s take it from the top, if we could start the video at the beginning so we can analyze it. Here you are seeing a chase of up to 100
miles an hour, pedestrians, traffic lights. Here is the beginning. Here is the beginning. She is now somehow managing to get out of the cop car,
she`s -- there she is hitting her own car, ramming it, that`s her, pushing her car forward with her family in the car. Now, she is taking off. This
is the getaway. Now, you see yourself, there you go, turning curves, 100 miles an hour through red lights, stop signs, incoming traffic,
pedestrians, the works. Look at this. That`s a red light she is running through right there. Forget the red light, what about the people who are
trying to cross the street? She keeps going. Here comes oncoming traffic. Yes, you know what? Forget about that. She`s not stopping. There you go.
This woman is handcuffed. Many people believe actually driving with her knees at 100 -- forget that cop car, there she goes. She keeps on going,
oncoming traffic no problem. Now she`s on a two-lane. There she goes. She is passing everything in sight.
Remember, this woman driving with her knees. Roxanne Reimer believes that she`s being followed because she steals -- did you see that
pedestrian, up here a plastic earrings at Kohl`s, marked up to a whopping $16, and then when she finally stops the car, she gets out of the car and
takes off running. Takes off running, still handcuffed behind her back.
OK, Solomon Jones, WURD. What dangers did this pose?
JONES: This posed dangers to people all along the way. She could have hit a car, she could have hit a pedestrian, she could have run the car off
the road and killed herself. I mean, she posed dangers to all kinds of people. Everybody who was in her path, as she was driving that car. The
only thing that really saved people, police believe, is the fact that the lights and sirens were on and people got out of the way, believing it was a
real police emergency.
GRACE: Now I want to go back to where she gets -- somehow gets into the police car, gets behind the wheel. You see the cops running. You know
something is going wrong, and then rams into her own family`s car. Now, take a listen. Take a look and a listen, look at this. That`s the
beginning. She`s going to somehow get out of that situation she is in right there. She`s going to get into the cop car. Now, what about the cop
that had the keys in his hands? He feels -- whoa, ramming her own family car, with her family in the car. And we`re off to the races.
OK, Justin Freiman, what more do we know?
FREIMAN: Actually, Nancy, she was able to crawl through a very small opening, about 12 inches by 11 inches, to get from the back seat of the
cruiser into the front seat and then take off.
GRACE: Now, I don`t understand. You say she got through an opening. What opening?
FREIMAN: There is a small partition between the front seat and the back seat of the cruiser. It was only about 12 inches by 11 inches, and
she was able to squeeze her way through into the front seat.
GRACE: Solomon, is there any indication she was drunk or high? I mean, who would do this?
JONES: The thing is, she had a couple of prior arrests, one of them was for drug possession and drug paraphernalia possession. And when police
finally caught up to her, she did have some drug paraphernalia, so there are some indications that she had a drug problem and that is why she was so
desperate to get away.
GRACE: OK, hold on, when you say drug paraphernalia, are you talking about a glassine bag with crack residue or are you talking about a roach?
What are you talking about?
JONES: We`re talking about hypodermic needles. She had hypodermic needles in her possession when the police caught up to her, and apparently
they had caught her with that type of drug paraphernalia before.
GRACE: OK, so she is high out of her mind, Caryn Stark, to pull something like this.
STARK: High out of her mind, Nancy, but she is also a wonderful contortionist, and not that it`s funny, because so many people could have
been killed, but she could be in Cirque du Soleil. Think about all that she was able to do, how she twisted her body. I was sitting here trying to
do it myself, trying to figure out how you can drive with your hands cuffed behind your back, and it seems almost impossible to me.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Heard a man talking to her. The voice was coming through a security camera.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What I`m afraid of is who has been watching quietly?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A stranger managed to hack into the family`s wifi system and take control of the camera in the little girl`s bedroom.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A person can hack into that. They can see what`s going on in the room.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The guy who hacked his way into the baby`s home is still out there somewhere.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK, imagine this. You are at home, ladies, alone with your child, when you hear a man`s voice directing you, talking to you.
Describing you and the baby. This guy, this adult male, hacked through the baby monitor. And was watching the nanny and the little baby girl.
To Carmen Watkins, co-host, "Starting Point," KCOH, Carmen, what do we know?
CARMEN WATKINS, KCOH: This is by far one of the craziest stories, ever. Here is a person who -- in the midst of just doing what they do as a
nanny, taking care of a 1-year-old, and you have to hear this crazy voice that I`m sure spooked the mess out of her, and then secondly, this person
goes on to give information, like oh my God, this is a cute baby, or the size of the poop in the diaper, or you need to protect your webcam. I
mean, I would have been a holy nightmare.
GRACE: You know, Stacey Newman also joining us, as well as Ashley Stanley, the nanny who discovered the baby cam was hacked, Ashley, thanks
for being with us.
ASHLEY STANLEY, NANNY: Thank you, Nancy.
GRACE: You know, Ashley, I`m very often alone taking care of my twins. And when you are -- we`ve got your door closed. All the windows
are locked, doors locked. The alarm is on, and then you hear a man`s voice watching you, watching you change the baby girl`s diapers. What happened?
STANLEY: Oh man, it was terrifying. I just thought it was a normal Monday morning. And often it is scary being in homes by yourself and
whenever it is not your own home. And after breakfast, we just went in and did a routine diaper change, and here is this strange voice talking from
inside the room somewhere.
GRACE: And what was he saying? Could you tell if it was an adult male?
STANLEY: Definitely. Definitely. At first it just sounded like maybe static noise or something. And I thought maybe it was a toy that had
been going off by itself or something, and I looked and there was no toy. And then I thought maybe it was my bosses pulling one over on me. And then
I realized it wasn`t that either. And I really, really scared me.
GRACE: What was he telling you? What was this guy doing? What could he see from the baby monitor?
STANLEY: Well, I definitely can tell he -- you can actually control the baby monitor through the app. And so he moved the camera up from
looking at the crib to looking at the changing table. And he was saying things like wow, that is a really poopy diaper and your baby is super cute.
And then he actually before he I guess got off the camera actually told me goodbye. It was just very strange and very terrifying all at the same
time.
GRACE: What did you do, Ashley?
STANLEY: I immediately unplugged it, and texted both of my bosses and asked them, you know, maybe if they were pulling one over on the nanny.
And they said no. And I was totally shocked and told them what I heard. And it was very, very scary for all three of us. So it is unplugged.
GRACE: I want to go out to Ben Levitan, telecommunications expert. I know you just heard this story, but there is probably no telling how long
this guy has been spying on this family. And I was just thinking about what Ashley Stanley just said, that the guy could control the nanny cam and
make it look different ways. He could basically see anything he wanted to in that home.
LEVITAN: Nancy, the scary thing is this is not hacking. This is kind of a big new trend that people just don`t understand. You understand that
when you go to a web page, what you are doing is connecting to somebody else`s computer. There is a giant new trend out there in products. And it
is called the Internet of things, where not only are we connecting computers to the Internet, but we`re going to be connecting everything to
the Internet. It is called the Internet of things. And one of the things you can connect is a camera. So what you do when you buy one of these
nanny cams, you are connecting your camera to the worldwide Internet, and the only thing you have to do to get to that camera is to type in the web
address from anywhere in the world and you can get to that camera.
GRACE: Stacey, can you speak to me in layman person language, not a telecommunications expert language.
NEWMAN: Well, I`m definitely not a telecom expert.
GRACE: What can people with a nanny cam like that one, what can they do to be protected from people like this creep?
NEWMAN: Here is the thing. If you are watching the show right now, go on there and change the default password and username. Don`t just use
what the manufacturer is giving you. Come up with a new password and a new username.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: After a diagnosis of a simple flu, an 8-year-old little girl left paralyzed. Why?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Health alert.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Fear of this virus is spreading quickly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A mysterious illness hits more than 100 children across the country, leaving formerly healthy kids paralyzed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: School districts from around the country are taking extra precautions to make sure that students are safe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: With me right now, Mikell Sheehan. Her daughter left paralyzed after the enterovirus. Mikell, thank you for being with us.
MIKELL SHEEHAN, MOTHER: Thank you for having us. I appreciate it.
GRACE: This is so important. Tell us what happened.
SHEEHAN: Bailey woke up in October with back pain and a headache and neck pain. I thought she had the virus -- had the flu virus. I kept us
all home and very quickly Bailey, myself and her brother and sister got it. Because her sister is seven months old -- four months old at the time, I
thought we needed to go to the doctor. And so we did. They checked her out. Within 24 hours, she had a really bad respiratory infection. Her
doctor said, Mikell, I don`t want to scare you, but I think she has the enterovirus. And I didn`t know what that was, so I didn`t think too much
about it.
Within seven days and six visits back and forth to the doctor, Bailey woke up that morning not able to raise her head or her arms, and I called
her doctor, thought we`d just watch it, thought it was just body aches. A couple of hours later, she tried to stand up and her leg gave out. She
yelled, mommy, my leg is not working. By the time we got to the emergency room, an hour and 15 minutes, she had lost feeling in her leg from right
above her knee to right below her ankle and numbness in her right arm.
GRACE: How has she changed?
SHEEHAN: The pain is what really gets these babies, the pain, the constant nerve pain and the medicine she has to be on has definitely
affected her. To be in pain for months and not have answers and not know how to fix it is the worst feeling ever. But she`s a determined little
girl. She pushes through it.
GRACE: Well, I know this. I know that she has a mommy that loves her more than anything in the world. What are they telling you about her
chances at recovery?
SHEEHAN: They don`t know. They don`t know what it is. So they can`t really give us any estimate on when this can go away or how it can go away.
One thing they do know that is working is therapy. So she does physical therapy and occupational therapy six days a week, two to three hours a day.
GRACE: Dr. Michelle Dupre with us. Dr. Dupre, please tell me what this is and what we can do to stop it.
DUPRE: Nancy, first of all, so sorry the family is going through this. The enterovirus is the second most common type of viruses that we
have next to the common cold. The difference is the enterovirus can live in the GI system. The common cold virus cannot. But there`s some
significant differences. There`s not really a way that we know to treat this or really to prevent it. But we can take some measures to try to
curtail that. Things like hand washing, staying away from people who are sick or ill. But if a person develops, particularly a child, develops
wheezing or very difficult breathing, it`s time for medical attention. It can be serious and very different from a cold.
GRACE: Everyone, let`s stop and remember American hero, Marine Lance Corporal Matthew Clark, just 22, St. Louis, Missouri. Purple Heart, Combat
Action Ribbon, also served in Afghanistan, loved traveling, time at coffee shops, theater productions. Parents Lee and Kenneth, stepfather Craig.
Matthew Clark, American hero.
Happy birthday to California friend Xavier, a kidney transplant survivor, won four medals and youth athlete of the year award at the
Transplant Games of America. Happy birthday, brave, brave Xavier. I will see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night,
friend.
END
