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Nancy Grace
Murder Plot or Movie Script?
Aired February 16, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Park Township, Michigan. When the dead, frozen body of her long-time beau is discovered,
police naturally question his grieving sweetheart, Maryann Castorena. But when they find a letter in her handwriting detailing a grisly murder
similar to her fiance`s, she claims it`s just a movie script she`s been writing. Wonder if that script includes details about the $1.1 million
life insurance policy. Tonight, we have the letter!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was hit over the head at least five times and left to die. He was found hours later in the snow.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m still going to maintain my innocence.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hernandez had a $1.25 million life insurance policy. Castorena was the beneficiary.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m not a money-hungry person!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live, Pennsylvania suburbs, and a parent`s worst nightmare. Neighborhood parents in shock when their 10-year-old daughters
come home from a little classmate`s sleepover in tears, claiming between popcorn and kid movies, they were sex molested. Did the 36-year-old
sleepover dad sex molest little 10-year-old girls under his own roof?
Bombshell tonight. Cops alerting all the parents at Russell (INAUDIBLE) the elementary school, fearing there may even be more 10-year-
old victims.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Charges of molesting two girls, accused of inappropriately touching two 10-year-old girls at his daughter`s sleepover.
Police say the sexual assaults happened at Hebshish`s (ph) the home over the course of a year-and-a-half.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s my belief that there are other victims out there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live, Exe (ph), Pennsylvania, to an all-boys` private academy, the Church Farm School. Police say it wasn`t just a fling, but
instead, a female English teacher has nearly a year of sex with a boy student, including love letters and multiple trysts in cars and local
hotels. The 35-year-old English teacher, Sarah O`Neill, denies the claims. But what about that steamy (ph) love letter she mistakenly leaves on the
school printer? Oops!
Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. To Park Township, Michigan. When the dead, frozen body of her long-time beau is discovered, police naturally question his
grieving sweetheart, Maryann. But when they find a letter in Maryann`s handwriting detailing a grisly murder similar to her fiance`s, she claims
it`s a movie script she`s been writing. I wonder if the script includes details about the $1.1 million life insurance policies. Tonight, we have
the letter. Or should I say the movie script?
Right now, to crime reporter with "The Holland Sentinel" Curtis Wildfong. Curtis, what a story. So this guy, Joe Hernandez`s, body is
found frozen in the snow, buried under snow, bludgeoned to death. What more do we know, Curtis?
CURTIS WILDFONG, "THE HOLLAND SENTINEL" (via telephone): His body was there for about 24 hours. He had been killed on the night of January 5th.
And snow had built up the night before and covered his body ,which took a little time to discover. But investigators are (INAUDIBLE) Maryann
Castorena, who is Jose`s ex-girlfriend, that (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: I don`t know how ex it was.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Curtis, I don`t know how much of an ex she really was. I think what she was doing was stringing him along. He wanted to marry her.
Little did he know, I think -- Ron Frantz can clear this up for me, the prosecutor in this case. Ron, thanks for being with us. Wasn`t she -- not
that this is a crime, of course, but wasn`t she married to one guy? Didn`t she have a quickie wedding, and she was still leading Joe Hernandez down
the garden path?
RON FRANTZ, PROSECUTOR (via telephone): Absolutely. She was living a double life. She was posing as the fiance for Jose Patricio (ph)
Hernandez, who intended to marry her. And about six months before the murder, she slipped off to Las Vegas and married another guy in a quickie
wedding, came back and continued to try to create the impression that she was unmarried.
GRACE: OK, I want to talk about why she would do that, Ron Frantz, why she would continue on with Hernandez, who desperately wanted to marry
her. Think it had anything to do with the $1.1 million life insurance policies?
FRANTZ: Oh, absolutely. We believe that she started planning to enhance her standing as a beneficiary about a year before the actual murder
took place. But interestingly, the second policy, which would net her $750,000, actually was taken out after she was married.
GRACE: Wow!
FRANTZ: And obviously, our victim did not know that. No one in their right mind would pay for an insurance policy on someone else`s wife.
GRACE: So all along, here we`ve got Hernandez, 38 years old, desperately wanting to marry Maryann. Little does he know she slips off to
Vegas and marries some other guy. But she, according to police, wants to kill Hernandez before he finds out that she`s married somebody else to get
the life insurance.
Now, this is what we know. We know Hernandez`s body is found bludgeoned dead, buried under a mountain of snow. Beside him, a car was
running, and according to experts, the car had been running for about 24 hours. What`s fascinating me, though, is the script, the movie script.
With me right now is the lawyer for Maryann. His client insists that this handwritten movie script, which was found in a bag, luggage stuffed
full with her lingerie -- John Beason, high-profile lawyer out of Grand Rapids -- John, thanks for being with us. So tell me about the movie
script.
JOHN BEASON, DEFENDANT`S ATTORNEY (via telephone): How are you doing, Nancy?
GRACE: Good.
BEASON: The movie script was one of the statements that Maryann relayed over to the detectives during one of her interviews. The movie
script was one of several versions that she indicated to the police how that note got written.
GRACE: So the movie script -- Matt Zarrell, who was she going to give the script to? Who was making a movie about a murder plot eerily similar
to her fiance -- I guess you can have a fiance when you`re married -- fiance`s murder?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Well, that`s a good question, Nancy, because from what authorities believe, she was
actually giving this note or letter to the person she planned to set up the murder.
GRACE: OK, take a look at what we`ve got here. We`ve got a dead body beside a car that`s been running for 24 hours. It`s under a mountain of
snow. It`s the body of Jose Hernandez, who desperately wants to marry Maryann. Little does he know she married another guy in Vegas. He turns
up dead. In her luggage, of nothing but lingerie, we find a so-called movie script detailing the murder.
With me, Ron Frantz, working on Castorena`s case, and John Beason, defending Maryann. So Ron Frantz, what is in the so-called movie script?
What does the letter detail?
FRANTZ: Well, we`re calling it a murder checklist. And it was written, obviously, to another person. And we believe, in this case,
Anthony Delagarza, her accomplice. But in the checklist is the motive for the murder. There`s mention of policies, which we believe are the life
insurance policies where Maryann was the beneficiary. There is detailed planning. There are many mentions of different things to do to conceal the
crime. There is mention of where the crime should occur, which did match Jose Patricio Hernandez`s home.
And also, you can see that the plan had evolved. At one time, this was supposed to be a shooting with a gun. And ultimately, it was a
bludgeoning with an auto repair tool.
GRACE: Whoa! OK, let`s take a look, a mock-up of the alleged murder weapon. This is a tool with which you remove bolts out of tires, a ball
joint remover. How would you like that upside the head?
With me, Dr. Bill Manion, forensic pathologist joining me out of Philadelphia tonight. Dr. Manion, you can actually match up a tool like
that ball joint remover to the injuries on the skull and determine if it was, in fact, the weapon.
But I want to ask you this, Dr. Manion. From what I know of this guy`s brutal bludgeoning injuries, he could very well have been alive,
lying there, feeling and seeing the snow getting piled up on top of him. He could have been alive at that point and died of hypothermia.
DR. BILL MANION, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST (via telephone): Well, yes, that`s possible, if he had a minor skull fracture. People can be alive
with a hairline fracture and just be incapacitated that they can`t get up, they`re so dizzy. He could have had a temporary loss of consciousness and
hypothermia. Out in the snow will set in very quickly. You could be dead within an hour from severe hypothermia.
GRACE: Can you imagine getting bludgeoned to the head, lying there and seeing your killer shovel snow, a mountain of snow, on top of your
body, knowing you can never get out?
Ron Frantz, handling the Castorena case, against Maryann Castorena -- Ron, what were the injuries to Hernandez? How bad was the bludgeoning?
FRANTZ: Well, it was very severe. He had at least five blows to the head. He had a very severe skull fracture. And I believe the medical
examiner indicated that it was irreversible. In other words, he probably died within minutes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jose Hernandez`s body was found next to his car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jose Hernandez`s life was insured for $1.25 million. The beneficiary, Maryann Castorena.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: She looks so innocent sitting there, and that`s going to be a problem if and when this goes to a jury because she looks so fresh-faced
and innocent until you start reading the movie script that was found in her luggage at her sister`s house. The movie script sure looks like a plan for
murder to me.
You know, Ron Frantz (INAUDIBLE) he`s on the case. Ron, you said that it was like a murder checklist. What did the movie script involve? What
were the suggested methods of murder, where, locations? What did you learn from it?
FRANTZ: Well, as I indicated, the original plan was to shoot Mr. Hernandez to death, and the intention was that Anthony Delagarza would come
up with a gun and do that, but he was unable to do that. And so the plan did evolve with time. And eventually, there was an agreement that he would
find another weapon -- turned out to be a ball joint remover -- and bludgeon him to death.
GRACE: You know, Ron, when you look at the injuries to Hernandez, who desperately wants to marry Maryann -- yes, you got that ball joint remover
and the husband from Las Vegas. That`s a little problem in that scenario. But Ron, is it very clear to you that a woman Maryann`s size is very
unlikely to have been able to bludgeon Hernandez to death? I don`t think she could have done it on her own.
FRANTZ: Yes, I think that puzzled us from the very beginning. As the investigation unfolded, we could see that Maryann had a motive, but it
didn`t seem likely that she acted alone. And so the mystery was who else was involved, one other person, or two or -- and it took some time for us
to...
GRACE: Unravel the whole thing?
FRANTZ: Exactly.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining me, in addition to Ron Frantz from Grand Rapids and John Beason, defending Maryann, also with us, Alex
Sanchez and Peter Odom.
OK, straight out to you, Peter Odom. What`s your best defense here?
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, you`ve got very difficult facts here. And as a defense attorney, you can`t create new facts. You
usually can`t eliminate facts. You got to deal with what you`re dealing with. She had to come up with some explanation for this very damaging
note. She decided to claim that it was a movie script. I think a jury`s going to have a tough time with that, frankly. But she also told two
different stories for the police...
GRACE: Yes, the thing is, you`re stuck with that. Yes...
ODOM: You`re stuck with it.
GRACE: ... you`re stuck with the note because...
ODOM: It`s her handwriting.
GRACE: ... she said that when police questioned her. So it`s not like it`s just an allegation from police. She actually said it herself.
And a handwriting analyst can prove that it`s her handwriting. So where do you go from there, Alex?
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, that note, I think, has much less value than what you`re giving it credit here.
GRACE: Really?
SANCHEZ: If you look at that note, it looks like something that was copied off a cheap comic book crime novel or something like that. In
addition, from my understanding, the district attorney is relying -- is making or cutting some type of a deal with the actual person that committed
the crime...
GRACE: Before I get into that, Alex...
SANCHEZ: ... Mr. Delagarza.
GRACE: I want to go back to what you`re saying about the note. Let`s address the note. You`re saying it sounds like it`s out of a cheap -- what
did you say, comic book or detective book?
SANCHEZ: Yes.
GRACE: That may be true, Alex. But what about the coincidence that that`s exactly how her fiance is murdered?
SANCHEZ: Well, you know what? If the case is so strong based upon this note, why is the prosecution seeking to cut a deal with this guy,
Delagarza? Why do they want to use him to possibly testify against her? It must mean the case against her is not that strong. And this guy,
Delagarza, he`s a criminal. He`s a gangster! And they`re -- why does he need tutoring on how to murder somebody?
GRACE: OK, let`s talk about -- since we -- let`s talk about who Delagarza is. It`s my understanding, Ron Frantz, Delagarza is the guy that
Maryann ropes into this whole scenario to do the deed. What do we know about Delagarza?
FRANTZ: Well, Delagarza actually had lived with Maryann and Jose Patricio Hernandez during the year before the killing and before Maryann
went off and got married in Vegas. So he knew all the parties involved. And Maryann and Delagarza had pulled another job in March of 2013, the
arson of a car that had belonged to Hernandez, and that netted about $40,000 in insurance fraud.
GRACE: Now, how do you know that, Ron Frantz, that these two committed an arson together?
FRANTZ: Well, it was kind of strange. We had Anthony Delagarza`s phone. And one of the investigators was able to find a recording that he
made, bragging about that crime to some other people.
GRACE: You know, Matt Zarrell, there`s something that Delagarza, the so-called hit man, says that I find very compelling. He claims that
Maryann berated him after the bludgeoning. What do you know?
ZARRELL: Yes. So right after the murder, Delagarza says he gets back into the car, and Castorena is there, asks if he did it, if he killed
Hernandez. He says he tried, and he said she responded by saying if he turns into a vegetable, then she wouldn`t get the money and she really
needed it -- the whole point was making sure he was dead so they could get the full life insurance policy.
GRACE: So she is basically reaming him out in case he didn`t sufficiently kill her fiance, claiming, If he`s just a vegetable, I`ll
never get the money, you idiot, basically? Am I paraphrasing correctly, Matt Zarrell?
ZARRELL: Yes, correct.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Ron Frantz, John Beason, Alex Sanchez, Peter Odom. All right, Peter Odom, that`s not going to endear her to a
jury. I guess you`re going to claim...
ODOM: If they believe it.
GRACE: ... the hit man`s making it all up? (INAUDIBLE)
ODOM: I mean, if they believe it because guess what? The hit man`s character`s going to be in evidence. I mean, you know, the old saying is,
Nancy, whoever calls the convict first loses. So they`re going to have to...
GRACE: Really? Because my old saying is you`ve got to go to hell to get witnesses to put the devil in jail.
ODOM: And that is also true.
GRACE: So we`ll put that to the fire.
ODOM: That is also true. But the jury`s...
GRACE: So Alex Sanchez...
ODOM: ... going to evaluate his credibility.
GRACE: Well, here`s the thing. Yes, I agree, he`s got horrible credibility, Alex. Peter`s right about that. But still, the note is found
in her bra and her thong underwear, not his. It`s in her handwriting, not his. The murder plot is at her sister`s house, in her luggage.
SANCHEZ: Well, if you think the note is a legitimate note, it`s a problem. If you think it looks like it was copied from a comic book, it
has no value at all. But I`d like to know from the prosecutor...
GRACE: I don`t know why you keep saying it`s copied from a comic book.
SANCHEZ: I would like to know...
GRACE: There`s no -- why are you even saying that? That`s not true.
SANCHEZ: I would like to know from the prosecutor what kind of a deal are they going to cut with this guy, Delagarza? What kind of time is he
going to get if he testifies against her? Because if he`s getting some sweetheart deal and the jury finds out about that, that testimony`s going
to have very little value, and that`s -- the prosecutor knows that. So why don`t you ask him right now?
GRACE: OK, Frantz, what is the proposed deal with the would-be (ph) hit man?
FRANTZ: Well, we intend to offer him the opportunity to plead guilty to second-degree murder, which carries up to life, but it`s parolable life
as opposed to first degree, which is not parolable.
GRACE: So it`s life with parole? That -- that -- I don`t know that that`s a sweetheart deal, Sanchez, the rest of your life behind bars, your
natural life, with the possibility of parole? That`s not that sweet!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jose Patricio Hernandez`s body was found outside of his running car.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Maryann Castorena, who says she was framed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say it was Anthony Delagarza who actually did the deed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Well, according to Maryann, the document that was found in her lingerie bag was actually her outlining a movie script. It was eerily
similar to the mode of death, the mode of murder of her fiance Her fiance, Hernandez, desperately wanted to marry her. What he didn`t know is that
she had married in a quickie Las Vegas wedding and wanted him dead to get his insurance money before he could find out about that Vegas quickie.
That is the allegation of the prosecution. Enter a hit man.
To Matt Zarrell. One thing I noticed is that she changed her story several times.
ZARRELL: Yes, she did, Nancy, specifically about the note. You mentioned the movie script. In another interview, she also claimed that
Delagarza came to her house and forced her to write the note detailing the murder and threatened to kill her children...
GRACE: OK, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait! Ran Frantz, you`re prosecuting the case. John Beason, you`re defending. Ron, so she then --
when she realized how damning the movie script was, she said Delagarza comes to her house and beats her into writing it, and what, stuffing it
between her underwear?
FRANTZ: Well, she had about six different versions. That was one of them. And then that was followed by another story, where some unknown
person came to the door, reached around her neck, held her in kind of a headlock, handed her a pen and said, Start writing what I tell you. And
she claims she didn`t know who that was. So the point is, the stories were completely unbelievable, which obviously had a bearing on her credibility
with the jury.
GRACE: It certainly will. John Beason, attorney for Maryann -- OK, that`s got to hurt. The more she talks, the worse it gets. What jury
would ever believe a complete stranger comes into her house, chokes her into writing a note which she then what, is then forced to stuff into her
lingerie bag?
BEASON: I would hope so Nancy, but it didn`t happen.
GRACE: OK, tell me this, John. What do you do when you have a client that flip-flops her story?
BEASON: What you try to do, what I try to do is concentrate on Delagarza and his credibility. He was a gang member. He had burned cars
before. He had threw Molotov cocktails before. He had cut the deal with the prosecutor. Defending Maryann was like going up a mountain backwards
blindfolded.
GRACE: Something he just said, Caryn Stark, the alleged hit man had burned cars before. Caryn, he burned the car with her, Maryann, to get
like I think it was $40,000 insurance. So the fact that he has burned a car doesn`t really help her because it was her idea to start with, to burn
the car for insurance proceeds. And that 40 grand wasn`t enough. The greed was consuming. According to prosecutors, she wanted even more money,
$1.1 million life insurance.
STARK: And nobody was really thinking very clearly here, Nancy. Because her wanting it and then writing it out, right there -- it`s bad
enough when you hire somebody to do this and you work with someone to do this. Because invariably, someone talks, or they have to tell someone.
They have to brag. But she has a prior history with him. So you could trace back their relationship and how they already did something nefarious.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Now live to Pennsylvania suburbs and a parent`s worst nightmare. Neighborhood parents in shock when their 10-year-old daughters
come home from a little classmate`s sleepover in tears, claiming that between popcorn and kid movies, they were sex molested. Did the 36-year-
old sleepover dad sex molest little 10-year-old girls under his own roof? Bombshell tonight, cops alerting all parents at Russell Strouble (ph)
elementary fearing there may be even more 10-year-old victims.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s infuriating, it`s terrifying because you think, hey, here is this nice guy living across the street.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say the sexual assaults happened in Huebsch`s home over the course of a year and a half. They say girls often
went in and out of the home and police are urging parents to talk to their child.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Totally shocked. It seems unbelievable to me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Okay. Note to self, never, ever, ever allow sleepovers at somebody else`s home. Parent`s worst nightmare. Look at this guy. This
father accused of sex molesting at least two 10-year-old little girls, and now police are combing through the girls` elementary school, afraid there
could be more little girl victims. And why would it be limited to just the school? What more is out there for police to find? We are bringing you
this story live from Ben-Salem tonight. To Jo Ciavaglia, reporter, Bucks County Times. Thank you for being with us. I`m just sick about this.
Just imagine the little girls, they are away from home. They`re spending the night, and, according to them, they`re molested by their little
friend`s father. What do we know about this guy, Joe?
JO CIAVAGLIA, BUCKS COUNTY TIMES: What we know, Nancy, is that he allegedly molested one girl at a new year`s eve sleepover, and police
believe he might have molested a second 10-year-old girl at least four times between August and September of 2013.
GRACE: How is he getting access to the second little girl, according to police, Jo? The first one was at a new year`s eve sleepover. And now
that`s just all coming to light. But what about the other little girl, where there`s at least four counts of sex molest?
CIAVAGLIA: Nancy, police believe that those both girls knew -- were friendly with Mr. Huebsch`s daughter, and that they also were -- the second
little girl was also molested at sleepovers at the home.
GRACE: And now all the parents at Russell Struebel are being warned and questioned. Did your child spend the night in this home? Did your
child play at this home? Because I`m just wondering -- let me go to Jeff Herman with me, victims` rights attorney. Jeff, what more can you tell us?
HERMAN: You know, it`s difficult when these cases come up to understand what really happened. I think parents have to understand that
they need to let their kids know that they`ve done nothing wrong when they`re speaking to them. 90 percent of kids are abused by somebody they
know. They have usually been groomed. So the kids, who are complying victims -- they physically comply. Obviously they don`t consent. They`re
kids. But because they participated compliantly in the sex, they feel like they have done something wrong. So you need to let them know that they`ve
done nothing wrong, and they`re the victims and try to get them to be able to tell their stories in a safe environment.
GRACE: Jeff Herman, you said this type of case is hard to understand. It`s not hard for me to understand, because two little 10-year-old girls
are both telling essentially the same story. They go to different sleepovers, but at the same house, and separately they tell police that
this sleepover dad molested them. I`m just wondering if it is the same MO. Were they asleep? Did he come into their bedroom? Did he get them in the
bathroom? Did he wait until all the other children were outside playing or watching a movie? To Jo Ciavaglia, crime reporter, do we know how he
managed to isolate the alleged victims?
CIAVAGLIA: We do not know the details of exactly where in the home they were molested. I can tell you, based on reading the criminal
complaint, Nancy, that the children each told extremely similarly stories of the way they were molested.
GRACE: Okay. So both times, he approaches a child, a little girl when she`s alone, and starts off by sticking -- forcing his hand down her
underwear to her vaginal area. That`s how the whole thing starts off both times, Jo?
CIAVAGLIA: My understanding is the initial contact with the second girl involved the grabbing of her buttocks.
GRACE: OK. That`s how that starts off?
CIAVAGLIA: One of the four occasions.
GRACE: Michael Christian, also on the story, does he, the father, David Samuel Huebsch, have any kind of criminal history?
CHRISTIAN: None, Nancy. Absolutely none.
GRACE: None? You know what? That`s not unusual. Caryn Stark, psychologist out of New York, that`s not unusual. And I`ll tell you why.
I`ve had so many cases where child molesters -- he`s not going to trial, he`s not been convicted. Right now he is just charged and is presumed
innocent. Let`s just get that off the table.
A lot of child molesters are upstanding. They`re fathers. They`ve got jobs. They`ve got families and you never suspect. Right?
STARK: You never suspect, and children don`t really speak up, Nancy, because they`re in a position as you said before, where they don`t have
power. And so they keep it to themselves. They don`t really know what to say, and they also blame themselves. So they feel embarrassed and ashamed.
GRACE: Joining me right now, special guest, director public safety there in Ben-Salem. Fred Harran is joining us. Thank you for joining us.
FRED HARRAN, DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC SAFETY, BEN-SALEM: No problem. You`re welcome.
GRACE: This is a shocker. What can you tell us, Fred? It`s my understanding this sleepover dad had no criminal history whatsoever. And
now not one but two little girls have come forward, and the school is now being warned and alerted that other children may have been molested, Fred.
HARRAN: Yes. I can`t really comment on the investigation as more victims come forward. There`s not much I can tell you before this case
goes to trial. I will tell you that the school`s not -- we`re not really warning the school, we`re just asking parents to have some conversations
and a talk with counselors, and we`ve identified some other children we`re going to talk to, just to see if any other molestations have taken place.
GRACE: Wait, wait. I couldn`t understand what you said. You`re telling the parents what?
HARRAN: We`re telling the parents to have conversations with their children. Obviously, we had this guy`s picture was on the news. We had a
press release on it so that the people knew what was going on. Because I believe there`s a lot more than two victims out there. He didn`t just do
this with two kids. Most likely there`s other victims. We`re in the process right now of talking to other children just to find out if anything
else took place with any other kids. It may have been at other sleepovers. It is my understanding that there have been a lot of children in that
house. And I`m sure, unfortunately, there`s going to be more than two victims. But as far as the investigation with the two children we have
already identified, I can`t comment on the ongoing investigation.
GRACE: Okay. And why do you believe there may be more victims?
HARRAN: Well, you know, nobody has just one bowl of ice cream. This guy didn`t just do it two times with two different kids. He`s done it I`m
sure before. This is a sickness. Usually it`s a sick pervert, and I am sure it`s not just one or two times he has done this. I`m sure it`s
happened numerous times, and even as even today, more information is coming to light, which certainly will be followed up in the judicial system. I
can`t comment at this time. A guy just doesn`t just do this one or two times. I`m sure this has been done multiple times. I`m sure we`ll get to
the bottom of it, and if there are more victims out there, we`ll be able to get these victims in court and have charges on this guy. I`m hoping that
he will never get out of jail again.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: And now live, Exton, Pennsylvania, to an all boys` private academy. The Charge Farm (ph) school. Police say it wasn`t just a fling,
but instead a female teacher has nearly a year of sex with a boy student, including love letters and multiple trysts in cars and local hotels. The
35-year-old English teacher, Sarah O`Neill, denies the claims. But what about that steamy love letter the teacher mistakenly leaves on the school
printer? Oops!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Teen victim told police he had sexual contact with a teacher multiple times in her car and in hotel rooms, and cops discovered
hundreds of phone calls and text messages between the two.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Solomon Jones, morning host, WURD. Solomon, is it because this is a very expensive, elite school, 35 grand a year for
tuition, did they try to hush this whole thing up?
SOLOMON JONES, WURD: This whole thing is in one of the richest counties in the country and the richest county in Pennsylvania. Their
house value out there is more than twice as much as the median household value in the state. So this is a rich place. This is a place where it`s
about more than just the sex, it`s about the scandal. This was definitely a scandal. The custodian caught them in the room three times with the
lights out and the door locked, her stockings disheveled. She`s telling the custodian, I was just trying to help him with some extra credit. I
mean, just it`s bizarre. And it`s in some of the most exclusive places in Pennsylvania. In a park in Narbert (ph), one of the most exclusive places
in the state of Pennsylvania. This is about much more than this ten-month- long affair and oral sex between this teacher and this student. This is about a scandal that involved both sex and money.
GRACE: Another thing -- by the way, you are seeing video of the school from Youtube. That`s the motto, never complain, never explain. If
you are not doing anything wrong, why do you suddenly burst with the explanations to the custodian? Three times you are telling me, Solomon
Jones, the custodian finds these two locked in O`Neill`s, school room, all the lights off, everybody else is gone from the school, and they are locked
in there in the dark. And when the custodian finally gets in, her hose are all disheveled, she`s disheveled, and immediately begin the explanations.
That`s video posted on Vimeo of Sarah O`Neill. Should the school have been put on notice if the custodian catches them three times in a locked
classroom in the dark, with her panty hose down around her ankles?
JONES: The school definitely should have been put on notice. The parents should have been put on notice. This was something that was so
brazen that even after the school caught them -- and again, the police found over 500 phone calls on her phone between them, over 300 text
messages between them, this was not a casual thing. This was an ongoing relationship with this female teacher taking advantage of this student. It
was so brazen that allegedly after the whole thing was discovered through the love letter and the police were involved, she continued to try to keep
making contact with this student. I mean, the whole thing is just really brazen, really out there. What the student says that it`s not true, then I
want to see the explanation for all these phone calls, all these text messages, the love letter and everything else.
GRACE: I never had a teacher call me period, at all.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Or our home. I never had one call my parents, that I know of anyway. How many phone calls did she make to this boy student?
JONES: This was over 500 phone calls. It was over 300 text messages between them. That`s what the police discovered on her phone. Again, I
mean, what is the explanation for that? And in one of these, the boy said, well, what are you wearing? She said I should be wearing something tight
and sexy or tight underwear or nothing at all. So again, this is not something that is just he say, she say. There`s lots of circumstantial of
course evidence linking the two of them together in a romantic relationship.
GRACE: Hold on. So in one of the texts he goes, what are you wearing, and this -- what is she, 35 years old teacher, Sarah O`Neill says,
I should have been wearing something sexy like tight underwear?
JONES: That`s right. Tight underwear or nothing at all. But I`m much too -- I think she said something like I`m much too proper for that.
GRACE: Wait, wait. Much too proper for wearing tight underwear? Hello. You are having sex, according to police, with a boy student, but
you are too proper for tight underwear? Did I hear you correctly, Solomon?
JONES: You did hear me correctly. Those are the kind of statements that the police found on her phone with these messages between her and this
young man. So the letters from what I can see -- I`m a writer. The letters are well written. Apparently she`s a good writer. But--
GRACE: I don`t think that`s the issue. I don`t think that`s the issue.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police in Pennsylvania have arrested a teacher who they say carried on a ten-month affair with a 16-year-old student at a
prestigious boarding school.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Sex with a boy student. Those are the allegations that went on for nearly a year, trysts in cars, including -- Stacey Newman, where is
Extended Stay America and the Motel 6 fit into this?
NEWMAN: She also dragged him away from campus to the point where teachers and faculty were looking for him, to have oral sex with this boy
in her car, in a park, in a Motel 6, and an Extended Stay America.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Jeff Herman, Alex Sanchez, Peter Odom. Okay. Sanchez, she leaves a love letter on the school printer. Ouch.
SANCHEZ: You know, this sounds like a 35-year-old with the maturity of a 16-year-old.
GRACE: That`s not a defense. That`s not a defense.
SANCHEZ: And the 16-year-old with the maturity of like a 30-year-old man. But the question I have, Nancy, are you suggesting that this kid is
undergoing severe, awful psychological harm? That kid is probably treated like a hero in the school by all his friends. I`m not saying this behavior
should be condoned. But let`s not make it sound like this is murder.
GRACE: Jeff Herman, help me, because why is it okay to molest a boy?
HERMAN: That`s a very unfortunate comment that was just made. It`s illegal because it`s harmful. As much as we may want to think or people
will say, it`s a boy with an older woman, yay for him, the truth is, this could have long-term affects on him, impact his relationships in the
future. He has been sexualized. He will be the same. He will never be able to have some of the relationships he might have had otherwise if this
is true.
GRACE: You know what, let`s stop and remember American hero, Marine Corporal Joshua Pickard. Just 20, California. Purple Heart, Combat Action
Ribbon, National Defense Service Medal, loved the outdoors. Parents, Larry and Terry. Three brothers, including one serving the Marines. Joshua
Pickard, American hero.
A special good night from California friend, Michael Nguyen. Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then,
good night, friend.
END
