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Nancy Grace
Road Rage Murder Manhunt
Aired February 18, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight live, Vegas suburbs. A young mom of four teaching her daughter to parallel park unwittingly
triggers a shocking chain of events when a car follows Mommy home after the driving lesson, opens fire because he feels he was wronged on the road.
Tonight, Mommy dead, her family left in shambles while Mommy`s killer still at large.
Bombshell tonight. The family of the murdered mom insists, Our son is a hero, not a vigilante. This as stunning facts emerge Mommy and her son
grab a gun and go looking for the road rager that follows her and her little girl home after an explosive verbal attack on Mommy. Tonight, a
grieving husband defends his son as Mommy herself comes under fire. Well, that`s just bassackwards! As we obtain secret surveillance video of the
perp caught on closed-circuit TV, tonight, we join police in the road rage murder manhunt.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everywhere I look (INAUDIBLE) I see my wife.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s a mother of four. She`s now -- she was a grandmother of one. My son is only 1 year and 2 months, and now I got to
deal with my son growing up without (INAUDIBLE) grandmother?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live, Texas suburbs, the trial of the man who guns down national hero American sniper. Bombshell tonight. Has this guy who guns
down American hero Chris Kyle actually been milking the system? It`s a money grab, $30,000 in veterans` benefits after he commits double murder?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He says he killed two guys. They went out to a shooting range, and he`s -- like, he`s all cranky. He`s (EXPLETIVE
DELETED) psychotic!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I took care of business, and then I got in the truck and left. It was (EXPLETIVE DELETED) up, you know?"
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The officer asks if he`s OK, and Routh says, I don`t know if I`m insane or sane.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And American songbird superstar Whitney Houston`s daughter in a coma, found unconscious face down in the tub, doctors telling family
prepare for the worst. The family says they`re holding out for a miracle. After her mother, Whitney Houston, also found submerged in a tub, history
repeats itself. Tonight, is a legal battle brewing over Bobbi Kristina?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bobbi Kristina Brown was found unresponsive in a bathtub at her home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Injuries in the chest, and he told them that it`s when he was doing the CPR.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Eight days before she was found unresponsive, a security guard called 911 about a disturbance.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just had a neighbor call and report that there was people hitting each other and swinging and...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. Live to Vegas suburbs, a young mom of four teaching her daughter to drive unwittingly triggers a shocking chain of
events when a car follows Mommy home after the driving lesson and opens fire because he, the driver, feels he was wronged on the road. The family
of the murdered mom insisting tonight, Our son is a hero, not a vigilante.
Bombshell tonight. Stunning facts emerging, Mommy and her son grab a gun and go looking for the road rager that follows Mommy and her little
girl home after that explosive verbal attack on Mommy. Tonight, a grieving husband defending his son as Mommy herself coming under fire. Well, I say
that is bassackwards! Tonight, video of the perp caught on closed-circuit TV. We join police in the road rage murder manhunt.
Straight out right now to John Shaffer, joining us, program director at KDWN. John Shaffer, a lot has changed in just 24 hours. What new do we
know?
JOHN SHAFFER, NEWSTALK 720 AM KDWN (via telephone): Nancy, you are absolutely right about that. What we learned last week after the road rage
incident, what was told to the media by the family was there was that road rage situation. The mother was yelled at. She and the daughter left the
scene...
GRACE: Wa-wa-wa-wa-wa-wait! Hold, hold, hold, hold on, John! I agree with you. Everybody, John Shaffer with me, program director at KDWN.
Now -- well, wait. I want to go back over that. So Mommy`s teaching the daughter to drive and parallel park. From what I understand -- and correct
me if I`m wrong, John -- this driver, this perp -- here`s the suspect sketch -- flies by Mommy, and the daughter leans over and "toot toot" on
the horn because this guy is obviously speeding.
Well, that makes him mad. And he comes back. He slams on the brakes, gets out of his car, comes over to Mommy`s window, chews her out, screams
at her. She gets scared. She races home. That`s where things start to change.
OK, what do we know, John Shaffer?
SHAFFER: According to the Las Vegas Metro Police Department in a press conference they held yesterday, when they got home, they were not
actually followed by the gunman, the person they got involved in the road rage incident with. When they got home, the mother, Tammy, and her
daughter, Crystal (ph), went in the house, woke up her older son, Brandon, got him to grab his gun, and then Tammy and Brandon went back out in their
car around the neighborhood searching for this person that she was involved in the road rage incident with.
GRACE: And then what happens?
SHAFFER: They found the car. They had followed the person for a little bit. Then she lost him again. Then she and Brandon drove back
home. That`s when this car pulled up in their cul-de-sac. Police say the person in the car never got out of the car, but opened fire from in the
car. Brandon fired back. Tammy Meyers was struck once in the head. They believe that it was from the shooter`s gun, not from her son`s gun.
GRACE: Now, from what I`m hearing directly from police -- they say, and I quote, "We" -- police -- "would never say the mom and the daughter --
or the mom and the son went looking for trouble." And isn`t it true, John Shaffer, KDWN, that their whole exploration in the neighborhood only lasted
between 5 and 10 minutes. So they basically find the guy.
My question is, John Shaffer, what`s he doing back in their neighborhood? So he`s in their neighborhood. She spots him and then gets
scared all again and goes back home after they lose him. Is that right?
SHAFFER: That is correct. And the missing part of the story, what we don`t know is what happened when she spotted them the first time? Were
more words exchanged or did she just see the other person`s car and then they got split up again and she went home?
GRACE: Well, to Chris Kudialis, breaking news reporter with "The Vegas Review-Journal," if she, quote, "lost him," well, that suggests to me
that they did not have another confrontation. And police have not mentioned that more words were ever exchanged. But what they are telling
us, Chris and John, is that this perp, this guy -- he`s in his mid-20s. He`s a white male, dirty blond hair, spiked, hazel or blue eyes, wearing a
white V-neck T-shirt last seen. He does follow Mommy back home. Is that right Chris?
CHRIS KUDIALIS, "LAS VEGAS REVIEW-JOURNAL" (via telephone): You know, there is no indication, Nancy, that this perp did follow the family back
home. All that police said was that Tammy and her son, Brandon, went home, and this other vehicle showed up after. It wasn`t clear whether the
vehicle actually followed Tammy and her son home or it took a different route through the neighborhood and just happened to arrive there.
GRACE: OK, now, that doesn`t make sense, Chris, all due respect.
KUDIALIS: Sure.
GRACE: They come home, and then suddenly, here`s the perp at their driveway...
KUDIALIS: Well, what I was suggesting is that...
GRACE: ... with a gun.
KUDIALIS: ... he could have take a different route or -- you know, I just can`t confirm that because police haven`t confirmed that.
GRACE: OK, let`s analyze what we know. Michael Christian joining us on the story. Michael, so the mom and the son -- they`re, like, angry.
They want to go find this guy that chewed Mommy out, explosive verbal attack on Mommy with her daughter sitting in the car. And she`s scared and
she`s angry. She gets home and decides, You know what? I`m going to go find this guy. I`m going to get his tag number. He shouldn`t have done
this.
So they go out looking, all right, her and the son. They find the guy. They turn around. They come back home. Now, are you telling me,
Michael Christian -- I want to make sure I understand this -- that he just magically emerged at their driveway and started shooting without following
them home? I mean, how else did he get there if he didn`t follow them home, Michael?
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Yes, it doesn`t really make any sense that you could find their home any other way
than following them, Nancy.
GRACE: I mean, John Shaffer, help me out -- KDWN. He had to follow them. It just makes logical sense. So in my mind, I don`t know if the
facts have really substantially changed. Everyone is claiming that this boy, the son -- he`s a grown man -- the son is a vigilante, that he caused
the whole thing. I don`t buy that. I don`t buy that at all, John Shaffer.
SHAFFER: Well, you`re right, Nancy, that it does appear that they were followed home after they went looking for the person and then followed
them for a bit. There wouldn`t really be any other way, unless they all knew each other, which has not been even alleged that they would know where
the Meyers family lived.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining me tonight, Alex Sanchez, New York, Peter Odom, Washington, D.C. All right, first to you, Peter Odom. I
don`t see how this makes Mommy and the son vigilantes. I don`t think they get anything wrong at all!
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, if you don`t see it, then I think you need to go get your glasses checked, OK? Listen...
GRACE: 20/20, 20/18, friend.
ODOM: Listen, this is a completely different story now. First of all, you know that they lied to the police in the beginning.
GRACE: That`s not true!
ODOM: Why would they do that? Secondly, Nancy...
GRACE: No, I don`t know that! No, I`m...
(CROSSTALK)
ODOM: You asked a question. I`m answering it.
GRACE: You just said something that is patently...
ODOM: They -- no, they lied...
GRACE: ... unconfirmed.
ODOM: ... by omission, Nancy. They made the police believe...
GRACE: Oh, OK.
ODOM: ... something that was other than the truth. Now, let me finish. They went out there with a gun. Now, do you think they went out
there to tickle him with the gun? Is that what you think?
GRACE: OK, now you asked me a question...
(CROSSTALK)
ODOM: ... because I know you can`t believe that.
GRACE: Now I`m going to answer. I`m give you -- give me the same courtesy I just gave you.
ODOM: They pursued him with a gun. They pursued him with a gun.
GRACE: I will finish now. And what I think happened is the mom was afraid and angry because this guy pulls up in front of her, slams on brake,
gets out of the car...
ODOM: Agreed.
GRACE: ... comes up to her window and starts verbally berating her, yelling at her. So she takes the girl home, afraid, and says, You know
what? And how many times -- I don`t know if you guys have ever done this, but whenever I see a perfectly healthy person in a handicapped spot, I`m,
like, You know what? I`m going to get their tag number. I`m going to report them.
ODOM: Yes. So far, Nancy, I`m with you...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Not done! Not done! So afraid. The son comes, he brings a gun.
ODOM: A gun!
GRACE: That`s not against the law. The mom is afraid of this guy. But they want to find him. They do find him...
ODOM: He brings a loaded gun. They pursued him!
GRACE: They do find him. And when they find him, they get scared and turn back around and come back home.
ODOM: OK, Nancy...
GRACE: They`re in their driveway when Mommy is shot dead by him. How does that change the fact that he`s the aggressor?
ODOM: Because, Nancy, they pursued him with a gun. That shows intent on their part. It certainly introduces an element of self-defense into
this. You have to admit that, Nancy. You just have to.
GRACE: Oh, he was so afraid, Alex Sanchez, that he follows them back to their house and opens fire? There`s no doubt about it. Police say he
opened fire, not the son.
ODOM: Well, much of what we...
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, Nancy, the facts changed from yesterday. This woman followed this guy with a gun. And let`s say
this guy came out of his car and started berating this person and started screaming at them. You know what? There`s an important agency you need to
contact. It`s called the police. And you call the police and you tell them there`s somebody that was yelling at me through the window. You don`t
take matters into your own hands. And I`m really surprised that you`re defending the woman in this case.
GRACE: You know what? Another thing. I want to go back to you, Peter Odom -- that you said that they lied. I just want to remind you of
something very gently. Remember, up until this weekend, Mommy was in a coma, laying in the hospital, OK? The cord...
ODOM: The son lied.
GRACE: Cord was -- no, I want to finish, please. She was taken off life support on Saturday and she died? Don`t you think that police waited
possibly before they grilled the son while his mother was dying, and the husband?
ODOM: I don`t know that.
GRACE: Well, I don`t know that, either.
ODOM: I can`t believe...
GRACE: But I don`t know if...
ODOM: The police got their version from somewhere. And it was -- they got a version from the family that didn`t contain a key fact about
their pursuing him with a gun.
GRACE: Well, do you think the police have a duty to tell you everything they know, Peter?
ODOM: Nancy, if a defendant had made that kind of an omission, you would jump all over him with both feet! You`d be all over him like a cheap
suitcase!
GRACE: I don`t see it as an omission. I see it additional facts they are learning upon further questioning of the victims.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My son came out, which -- and watched his mother fall. And he did what any son would do. He`s a hero in my book. And he
returned fire.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She did not deserve to get shot in the head for something that she`s teaching my little sister how to drive.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She just passed away. And I couldn`t let my mom go.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And if I would have been here, there`d be four people laying here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The LVMPD received numerous 911 calls in regards to a shooting that had taken place in a neighborhood off of Mount Shasta
Drive in the south -- sorry, in the northwest part of the valley. When officers arrived at the scene, they found a woman later identified as 44-
year-old Tammy Meyers suffering from an apparent gunshot wound.
Mrs. Meyers had left her home prior to this event taking place with her 15-year-old daughter. She was teaching her how to drive. They drove
to a nearby school, and Mrs. Meyers worked with her daughter with the vehicle on private property in a parking lot.
At the conclusion of that driving lesson, Mrs. Meyers took control of that vehicle and got back on a public roadway. While driving through the
neighborhood area, still giving her daughter a lesson in regards to driving of how to merge into lanes, how to properly make turns on a public roadway,
she was encountered by a vehicle that was speeding up rapidly behind her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: There you hear part of a presser by police. They go on to describe the fact that the perp gets out of his car and comes up to Mommy`s
window and berates her, a vicious and explosive verbal attack on Mommy. She gets home, and then she gets her son and they go looking for this guy.
And they find him.
Back to you, John Shaffer, program director, KDWN. Explain to me again what happens at that juncture.
SHAFFER: When they got back home, they went in, got her son, Brandon, who with his gun then went outside, joined his mom, Tammy, in their car.
They went out for about five, ten minutes driving around their neighborhood, looking for the person she was in the road rage incident
with. They find that person, followed him for a short time. Then they lost him. They went back home. The shooter`s car showed up. Several
shots were fired out of the car. Her son, Brandon, returned fire. And Tammy Meyers was shot in the head and died there in the street.
GRACE: With me, Matthew W. Horace, law enforcement and security expert, senior VP at FJC (ph) Security. Matthew, thank you for being with
us. The fact that the mom goes looking for the perp -- I don`t see how that changes the fact that the Perp follows them back to their house and he
opens fire and kills Mommy.
MATTHEW W. HORACE, LAW ENFORCEMENT AND SECURITY EXPERT: Well, I think that we have to distinguish between the facts as we know them right now and
the facts that the police know. And unfortunately for us in the business, the police are under no obligation to tell us all the facts. But we can
all agree that there are some missing pieces to this puzzle.
Now, if you use the standard of a law enforcement person versus a member of the public, I believe that as soon as this situation escalated to
the point where it had the potential to become more explosive, then the police should have been contacted at the very first sign. You and I
both...
GRACE: Well, I agree it`s always a good idea to call the police. But we know -- according to Lieutenant Steibner (ph), we know police are saying
that they do not believe the mother and the son went looking fur trouble. I imagine they wanted to get the tag number of the guy that had verbally
attacked Mommy. They also are saying that all indications are the suspect is the one that opened fire.
HORACE: That`s absolutely correct. Certainly, once the rounds started getting fired, the situation was out of control. I don`t know
about you or the other panelists, but if the situation escalated to a point where I thought I needed a gun to go out and even take a cab or even take a
tag number down or get more information, then the situation has probably escalated far beyond our control.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you guys that did this, look at this closely because she`s gone now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When officers arrived at the scene, they found a woman later identified as 44-year-old Tammy Meyers suffering from an
apparent gunshot wound.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was just a great woman. I mean, to be honest with you, everybody says that about their mom, but my mom was different.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, here is what happens when she gets home. Mrs. Meyers is scared, but she`s upset. When she gets home, she tells her
15-year-old daughter to wake up her son, who was in bed, who was an adult, and he`s 22 years old -- to wake him up and have him come outside and get
in the car with her so they can find who frightened them while they were on the roadway.
Her 22-year-old son came out of the house, got into the car. He was armed with a firearm that is registered to him. And then they left the
house. They left the house in search of that person they were -- that Mrs. Meyers was involved in an incident with just prior.
The vehicles and persons found each other. Through the course of them finding each other, at one point, Mrs. Meyers was following what we
consider a suspect vehicle. And then at another point, they broke apart and Mrs. Meyers went home.
As she drove home, she was then encountered by the vehicle that she was following, believed to be the suspect vehicle. As Mrs. Meyers pulled
back in onto her street and into the cul-de-sac where she lives, her son exited his vehicle. Mrs. Meyers exited her vehicle -- her side of the
vehicle which she was driving at the time. As she exited, a gray -- we believe a gray four-door sedan, or silver, pulled down the street into the
cul-de-sac, and there was a volley of rounds that were fired from that vehicle.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: There you`re hearing the latest that we know for sure, police saying that they do not believe mother and son went, quote, "looking for
trouble" and that all indications are the perp is the one who started firing the gun.
Let`s take a look at the vehicle. Liz, if you could put that closed- circuit TV video we obtained? You`re see the car. There it is. They`re not telling us what kind of car it is. Take a look right here. You get a
really good look at the vehicle. It`s a gray or silver four-door sedan.
This has been ruled a homicide. Here is the description. Let`s see that sketch again. We`ve got the guy, a white male around 25, 6-feet,
medium build, spiked dirty blond hair, blue or hazel eyes, last wearing a white V-neck T-shirt.
You know, to Caryn Stark, psychologist. Caryn, how many times have you thought, You know what? I`m going take a picture of that car with my
cell phone. I`m going to get their tag number. What they did was wrong. It doesn`t sound to me, based on what police are saying, that the mom and
the son went looking for trouble.
CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: Nancy, it seems to me that they were all - - I have to disagree with you -- looking for trouble because it would have been very different if they had taken a picture -- I wish that they had
done that -- or gone directly to the police. But the fact that they took it upon themselves to go out thee and deal with somebody who had road rage
and possibly was aggressive, had an impulse control problem -- that was not a very smart thing to do. I`m not saying the guy wasn`t guilty. He is
certainly guilty. They shouldn`t have been shot. He followed them back, it seems like.
GRACE: Caryn Stark, I agree with you partially. It may not have been smart to go get the tag number or see what kind of a car it was. But did
she deserve the death penalty? Everybody calling this young man and his mother vigilantes, are wrong. They got it bassackwards. The person that
is in the wrong is a suspect that gunned down a mother of four. He`s the bad guy, not the mommy and not the son.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Veteran trial lawyer Irwin Block, renowned criminal lawyer, spent his 60 year career fighting for civil rights. Famous for helping the
downtrodden. Even argued to the U.S. Supreme Court landmark case Gideon v Wainwright that established once and for all you have a right to a lawyer
when you are charged with a crime. A legal legend. More important, his wife of 65 years, Doris, four daughters, eight grandchildren, seven greats,
sister Edith. Irwin Block, good night, friend.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)c
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who did he say he was -- he had killed?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s such a legend in his home state that the second anniversary of his death was declared Chris Kyle Day by the Texas
governor.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He says he killed two guys. They went out to a shooting range. Like, he`s all crazy. He`s [ expletive ] psychotic.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Live, Texas suburb, a trial of the man who guns down the nation`s hero, American sniper. Bombshell tonight, has this guy who kills
American hero Chris Kyle actually been milking the system? It is a money grab. Did he really take the windfall of $30,000 in veterans benefits
after he commits double murder? I mean, Ed Lavandera standing by at the courthouse, is this true? Did the guy who guns down an American hero
actually get about 30 grand of veterans benefits after the double murder? And not only that, is it true reports that some of this money has been used
for a down payment on a house?
LAVANDERA: It is. And that is one of the things that the judge in this case is looking at. It is out there. What exactly is going to come
of it is not clear. The judge has learned about all of this yesterday afternoon, in testimony. And obviously, this is a huge deal as well.
Because Eddie Ray Routh has three lawyers that have been court appointed. And as you well know, that is a great legal cost, a great amount of money
that goes towards that. What exactly is going to happen with this money and who -- and what will come of it we don`t know yet. The judge hasn`t
made any final decisions.
GRACE: Everybody, you are seeing the movie "American Sniper" from Warner Brothers detailing the life of American hero Chris Kyle, the
American sniper. Now this all ends in court. Routh charged with murdering Kyle and Chad Littlefield, claiming insanity. Laura Collins joining us,
dailymail.com, senior news reporter. I`m just stunned that this guy, Eddie Ray Routh, collects and is still raking in nearly $3,000 a month? After he
commits double murder?
COLLINS: Yes, Nancy, that is right. That has come from the fact that he was found to be suffering from PTSD. Apparently he was officially
diagnosed and declared disabled after the crime took place. And the first check in fact came through I think the week after the crime took place.
And they have been coming in ever since.
GRACE: With me also special guest, Tim Xeriland, who knows the defendant, Eddie Ray Routh, actually hired Routh as a handyman. Thank you
for being with us.
TIM XERILAND, KNOWS EDDIE ROUTH: Thank you, Nancy.
GRACE: I find it very interesting, what you told us about that weapon, that shadow box that Routh saw that you had, that special weapon in
there, and that he was totally obsessed with it. Could you describe that for us?
XERILAND: Sure. So he did some work inside my house. And noticed the shadow box. And he was very focussed on the gun that was inside there.
Had a lot of questions about it. It`s been some time so I can`t give you a direct quote, but it was something along the lines of I`d give anything to
get my hands on that gun. Which at the time seemed like an expression. Not some kind of dark harbinger of things to come. But it really wasn`t
until I heard the prosecution talk about the particular gun, Chris Kyle`s handgun, and how Eddie focused on that, he bypassed other guns to take that
gun, took the time to load it before he actually left the crime scene. And the reason it was all so significant is because it`s the really the exact
make and model gun that I had in that shadow box that Eddie was focused on.
GRACE: Can I ask you where you got the gun?
XERILAND: Yes, it`s -- I served in the military. And I have certain things that I have keepsakes of.
GRACE: Tim, another question. You know Eddie Ray Routh. You hired him to do odd jobs around your home.
XERILAND: Sure.
GRACE: He took that very unique interest in your weapon that you had sealed in a shadow box. Did you see any changes in Eddie Ray Routh in the
months leading up to the murders?
XERILAND: Yes. Typically he was a good natured guy. Personable and friendly. But leading up to the murders, he definitely -- there was a
change in his behavior. He seemed a lot more jumpy, jittery, nervous kind of thing.
GRACE: With me also Brandon Webb, former Navy seal who trained Chris Kyle. New York Times best-selling author, a CEO, Force 12 media. You are
seeing the movie "American Sniper" from Warner Brothers. Brandon, what do you think about the state`s case?
BRANDON WEBB, FORCE 12 MEDIA: I think that -- I honestly believe that Eddie does suffer from a mental disorder. This is a guy that has a history
of schizophrenic type episodes, violence and drug abuse dating all the way back to his time in the Marine Corps. I think it`s tragic the VA kind of
let him slip through the system.
GRACE: Actually Brandon, he had demonstrated so much of that before he ever entered the military. And we have yet to have been able to
establish he ever saw any action so whatever problems he had --
WEBB: We have --
GRACE: Go ahead.
WEBB: We have established he did not see combat action in Iraq. And we did a story recently on one of our web sites called (inaudible), and
clearly he did not see any combat action. But you are correct. He had a history of violence before the Marine Corps. And the true tragedy here is
my friend would have never signed up to take on this case to help a fellow veteran had Eddie`s mom been truthful and told Chris the true nature of her
son`s condition.
GRACE: And, you know, that brings me to my next point. So Caryn Stark. The reality is, Caryn, this guy smoked pot every day. Most of his
family smoked pot with him. And he also smoked pot mixed with embalming fluid. So you`re smoking wet weed, is what it`s called, that day. So how
he claim he`s crazy when he is voluntarily smoking wet weed? Hold on, Caryn. Matt, do you see him laying down in the back of the car. Isn`t he
true he only did that when people were watching him?
ZARRELL: Yes, prosecutors say it was all an act. When the cops were around he would put on this act, but when cops walked away, he was fine,
very relaxed.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Let`s test your crime IQ. Remember little Hilly Cummings. Vanishes from her Florida home February 2009. Do you remember what object
propped open the back door to her home when she vanishes? Tweet and Facebook your answers using #crimeiq. As I`ll reveal one of the winners
here on the show tomorrow tonight. You have 24 hours, legal eagles. Now go.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He says he killed two guys. They went to a shooting range, and he`s all crazy. He`s [ expletive ] psychotic.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I took care of business and then I got in the truck and left. It was [ expletive ], you know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The officer asks if he was okay. And Routh says I don`t know if I`m insane or sane.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tonight we learn that the man who guns down American hero Chris Kyle and his friend, Chad Littlefield, milking the system. $30,000,
approximately, in veterans benefits. This, he gets this after the double murder. He is still getting the money right now. And he hid it from the
judge. Unleash the lawyers, Peter Odom, and Alex Sanchez. Peter, that is extremely significant that we are footing the bill for his defense while he
is hiding money. And apparently has used it for a down payment on a house.
ODOM: You know, Nancy, this is such a complicated case and you raise a very good question.
GRACE: Not complicated to me.
ODOM: It sounds complicated to me. I am just not as smart as you.
GRACE: Well, I`m not going to argue with about that.
ODOM: It`s not at issue whether he killed these two men. Defense isn`t even contesting that. It is also not an issue whether he is mentally
ill. He`s been diagnosed as mentally ill for many years and he has been institutionalized several times. Several times against his will. At one
point he was on nine different medications for his illness.
GRACE: Can you please address the question I asked you?
ODOM: Yes. I`m addressing it.
GRACE: Well, if you could get the point.
ODOM: If you don`t want to hear the answer you don`t have to hear it, but I am addressing it. Okay? So he is legitimately mentally ill. In any
other state, he would be found not guilty by reason of insanity. Unfortunately insanity is a legal concept, not a medical diagnosis. In
Texas, it is a very narrow definition. If he knew right from wrong, then he is not mentally ill. And he admitted on that tape he knew right from
wrong. So under Texas law he is probably not going to be able to use the insanity defense.
That being said, Nancy, if the Veterans Administration had done its job in the first place, they probably wouldn`t have to be paying him this
money and the murders probably wouldn`t have taken place. He was institutionalized and they released him.
GRACE: Back to Ed Lavandera, I`m trying to find out out about the 30 grand. What can you tell me about that?
LAVANDERA: Just that. A week before the murders he spent several days at the VA hospital in Dallas and he was released. Routh`s mother says
she begged them to keep him in. But then after the murders, he is labeled as disabled, and the $2800 a month roughly started coming in to an account.
So the judge finds out about that yesterday. We`re waiting to see what`s going to happen next. We don`t know what the next step will be. If he`s
convicted, the amount of money that would be given to him per month I think would drop down to less than $300 a month. But even with that, we don`t
know where this is headed at this point.
GRACE: Matt, what can you tell me that was found in Routh`s home?
ZARRELL: Nancy, this is crucial to the state`s case. In a Hershey`s tin on Routh`s desk, investigators found some marijuana paraphernalia,
marijuana itself, multiple pipes, a grinder. A bong. On cross, the witness also confirmed the glass pipe is consistent with meth use. They
also found a nearly empty bottle of Texas crown whiskey. This all goes to the state`s case that it was drugs and alcohol that caused this crime and
not his mental illness. In fact, Nancy, he made a point of showing that -- in witnesses today that Routh specifically gets angry when he drinks.
GRACE: You know, I want to talk about the almost empty bottle of Texas Crown whiskey that`s found in his home. You know what was amazing to
me, Matt, is that the Veterans Association, V.A., the hospital, kept telling him, you have got to quit smoking pot, laced with formaldehyde,
embalming fluid, and you got to quit drinking. We can`t treat you under these conditions. And he refused to stop, and was high at a kite the day
of the killings.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: American songbird superstar Whitney Houston`s daughter in a coma, found unconscious face down in a bathtub. Tonight, is a legal battle
brewing over Bobbi Kristina.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Such a waiting game right now.
The daughter of Whitney Houston and Bobby Brown.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was unresponsive in a bathtub.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The chances that someone saw or heard something that day are pretty high.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She did have injuries that can`t be explained.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mystery injuries, unexplained injuries, does it suggest there was foul play here?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Let`s turn to Alan Duke, national correspondent, Radaronline.com. A legal battle potentially brewing. Explain.
DUKE: Well, it could happen in several ways. First of all, does Nick Gordon have any legal claim to be able to see Bobbi Kristina? Does he have
any say-so in whether she`s taken off life support? I think those are issues being explored now by Gordon`s lawyer.
GRACE: With me right now, Dr. Wei Xiong, a neurologist at Case Medical Center. Thank you so much for being with us. Doctor, what affect
is it going to have on her -- there are no reports of any change in her condition. What effect will it have on her physically to remain on life
support for an extended period of time?
DR. WEI XIONG, MD: Well, when you are on life support for a long period of time, your brain sometimes unable to perform functions that allow
you to avoid complications like pneumonia and skin breakdown and blood clots and things like that. There could be some detrimental effects in
that respect. Additionally, after this much time on a ventilator, her muscles may become deconditioned. There might be some degree of atrophy
that starts to set in. But these are reversible things with rehabilitation.
GRACE: Reversible with rehab. To Dr. Michelle Dupre, forensic pathologist joining us out of Colombia, thank you for being with us. Can I
ask you how it works, how likely is it that you survive when you are taken off life support?
DR. MICHELLE DUPRE, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Well, Nancy, two things. One, once a patient is declared brain dead, there is no such thing as life
support. It`s organ support. I don`t know if that`s the case in this issue or not. If the patient has not been declared brain dead and they are
simply on a ventilator, it depends on how long they have been on a ventilator and it depends on the cause, the reason that they were on that
ventilator.
GRACE: You are seeing clips from Bobbi Kristina`s Twitter account. What were you saying?
DUPRE: I was just reiterating that once that person is declared brain dead, there is no life support. It`s simply organs that are kept
functioning by machines. That`s it.
GRACE: Alan Duke, we have been told that Nick Gordon has not been allowed at the hospital. What do you make of reports that he denies he is
going to file a legal action to gain access to Bobbi Kristina?
DUKE: That was last week that Randy Kesler that we all know so well made that statement. Some things may have changed. You are right, nothing
has been filed. The first thing that I think a good lawyer does is try to work things out without having to go to a judge and a court. I think they
are working quietly behind the scenes to convince Bobby Brown to let him there. But as we get down to the wire and a decision is made on life
support, it becomes more crucial and more critical. Then you go to your next step.
GRACE: Let`s stop and remember American hero, Macon firefighter Lieutenant Randy Parker, who lost his life in line of duty battling a house
fire. Parker, 46, served 20 years in the community, leaves behind widow Sandy and two sons. Tonight our thoughts and prayers with his family. I
will see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.
END
