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Nancy Grace
Kids Die in Fire as Mom Drinks
Aired March 02, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, West Alexandria. A blazing fire burns a family home to the ground. But it`s only in the early
morning hours that police say Mommy rolls up from a night of partying, that the mom of two, Chastity Hall, tells firefighters her two little children
are in that home, Malachi and Malea both dead while Mommy out partying, getting totally drunk!
Bombshell tonight. At this hour, we are waiting for formal charges to be handed down. Will Mommy walk free?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two children died in the fire.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Smoke poured from the attic. The floor of the home collapsed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The two children are home alone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She got out screaming that, My kids were in there.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was at two bars, and she did not return home until almost 7:00 o`clock in the morning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My medic crews did smell alcohol on her breath.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And we go live to Minnesota for an incredible story, almost too hard to believe. A mainstream Christian church with a huge following
caught in the mix (ph) of parents, church goers and police. A charismatic pastor calls on the church to mimic scripture and hand over their
firstborn. In this case, church goers hand over firstborn girls as young as 12.
Pastor Victor Bernard (ph) allegedly secludes at least 10 young girls he calls the maidens at an obscure campsite, where he repeatedly molests
them all every single day for 10 long years, most of them never knowing a normal life with mom and dad. And what`s so amazing, the parents go along
with it, convinced it`s the word of God.
As we go to air, Victor Bernard has been spotted in Brazil living in a gated beachside condo.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s kind of numbing. It`s like of a wave of emotions. I can`t even put it into words. (INAUDIBLE) his wife anymore.
We did everything that his wife would have done. He kind of, you know, tore our family apart and some of the other families.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The photos in this Brazilian newspaper show a man...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Victor Bernard built a religions camp he called River Road Fellowship.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) Victor to take anymore of my life away now, you know, like (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She says Bernard was on the run in Brazil.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live, Valhalla. When a beautiful 5-year-old little boy dies in the hospital, heartbreak for Mommy, who chronicles her son`s final
days over social media. But tonight, police asking did Mommy inject a lethal dose of salt in her own boy`s feeding tube? In the last hours, the
jury hands down a verdict.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s tragic.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The most unthinkable crime, now in shackles for killing her own son, 5-year-old Garnet Spears (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... is rushed to the hospital suffering from agonizing abdominal pain. Doctors find unusually elevated levels of sodium
in the child`s system.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight, to West Alexandria. A blazing fire burns a family home to the ground. But it`s only in the early morning hours when police
say Mommy rolls up from a night of partying that mother of two Chastity Hall tells the firefighters her two little children are in the home,
Malachi and Malea both dead while Mommy out partying and getting totally drunk!
Bombshell tonight. At this hour, we are awaiting formal charges to be handed down, but we`re also learning a grand jury has chosen to pass the
case. In other words, they couldn`t reach a decision?
Straight out to Melissa Neeley, anchor with WLW. Melissa, the grand jury heard evidence and couldn`t reach a decision?
MELISSA NEELEY, WLW (via telephone): That`s right, Nancy. The jury in that area -- they put it off until next month because they were
confused, apparently, about what their decision would be as far as their decision for the grand jury. And it involves those two children that...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I can`t believe it, Melissa. I can`t believe it. We`re showing photos right now of a raging inferno at the home.
Matt Zarrell, it`s my understanding Mommy tries to get a relative to baby-sit, but when that doesn`t work out, she goes out to party anyway,
stays out until -- here`s Mommy in a party hat. She stays out until 1:45 AM, swings back by the house only to freshen up her makeup. That`s at 1:45
AM.
By 3:30, that house is in blazes. Then early, early morning hours, say 5:00, 6:00 o`clock, Mommy rolls back in drunk. The firefighters are
then mopping it down. They`re ready to leave. It`s all over. They never even knew children were in the home, and Mommy then tells firefighters, My
children are in the home.
Matt Zarrell, take it from the top. What happened?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Yes, Nancy, apparently, cops say that this mother -- first she tried to get her teenage
son to baby-sit for her, but when her parents refused to allow the teenage son to do that, she just decides to go out by herself.
She even stopped at 1:45 AM at the house, freshened her makeup. So the children were asleep, and then left again with a friend, continued to
drink, according to police, showed up hours later, five hours later at 6:45 AM. The house is basically cold (ph). The roof is collapsed. The floor
is caved in. And she gets out of the car screaming, Where are my babies? My babies are in there.
GRACE: OK, to Melissa Neeley joining me from WLW. Melissa, I want you to take a listen to what the fire chief told me.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Upon arrival, we encountered a single-story residential fully involved. The fire had reached the roof, and the entire
roof and floor had already collapsed. I`m thinking that the fire had to have a start of a good hour or so before our arrival.
We were -- crews were just mopping up, and a car pulled in the driveway and she got out screaming that, My kids were in there. And at
that time, I grabbed her and looked at her and I asked her if her children were still in there. And she said yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You know, these two children dying in that fire -- Mommy also says, according to reports, that when she came in to freshen up her makeup,
before she went back out drinking and partying, she looked at her children. They were asleep in the bed. And she left them there. This is around
2:00, 2:30 in the morning.
To Robert Rowe, arson investigator with Pyrocop, Inc. You know, Robert, here`s my question. If Mommy is in the home and she`s already
drinking, and this is at 2:00, 2:30, do we know how this fire started? Did it start from a curling iron that was left on, or a cigarette that was
thrown into a bathroom trash can? I mean, how did a fire not start at 1:45 when she`s there, and at 3:30, the whole home is engulfed in blazes?
ROBERT ROWE, FIRE EXPERT (via telephone): Well, you know, it`s very difficult to pin it down, and I`m not there to conduct the investigation.
But nonetheless, there are several causational factors that come into play. It could be accidental. It could be an intentional. My understanding is
that there was a little bit of fireplay going on in prior months. But that doesn`t always -- you know, it`s not always the cause. There`s a lot of
different reasons a fire can be caused.
GRACE: You are seeing pictures right now of Malea and Malachi, 9 and 10 years old. They died in the fire that destroyed the home while Mommy is
out drinking and partying. She makes a pit stop at the house at 1:45 AM to put on more makeup.
Take a listen to the fire chief.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Chief Shaffer (ph), could you tell? Did the mom smell like alcohol?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Actually, at that point, Nancy, I -- my focus was entirely on the children. I -- my medic crews did observe or smell alcohol
on her breath.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining me, Trinity Hundredmark out of Atlanta and Hugo Rodriguez out of Miami.
All right, Hugo, the medics could smell the booze on Mommy. She says at 1:45, when she made a pit stop in home -- she`d already been out for
hours partying, leaving her children alone in the home -- that they were asleep. She made her pit stop put on even more makeup and redo her hair.
Then she leaves.
Right there, Hugo, the medics can smell alcohol on Mommy.
HUGO RODRIGUEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That`s fine, but we don`t know what caused the accident. We don`t know what caused the fire. All that the
state has was presented to a grand jury, and as you said before, they passed, which means that they could not decide if there was probable cause
to charge her with any crime.
So at this point, she has no charges, not for child endangerment, not for causing the fire, not for anything.
GRACE: You know, my question is, Trinity Hundredmark, based on the theory of felony murder, that she left the home, left the children
unattended basically overnight. And they die in a house fire? Felony murder is when a death occurs during the commission of a felony. That is
all that is required.
And it`s hard for me to believe that Mommy can be out partying and boozing all night long, admittedly leaving her children there in the home,
coming -- pulling back in early morning hours, drunk, smelling of alcohol, and that`s not felony child neglect?
TRINITY HUNDREDMARK, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, the problem is, is what is the predicate offense? What is the crime that she`s committed?
There are no guidelines for how old...
GRACE: I just told you...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... child abuse.
HUNDREDMARK: Right, but there`s no guidelines for how old a child can be. These children could be left alone -- there is no age limit -- for
periods of time if the parent believes that they are capable of being left alone.
GRACE: OK, please put her picture up. Hold on. So Trinity, do you have children?
HUNDREDMARK: I do. And I`m actually eight-and-a-half months pregnant with my second one. So yes, I do.
GRACE: OK...
(CROSSTALK)
HUNDREDMARK: I`m not saying it`s a great parental decision.
GRACE: No, I was asking you a question. How old are your current children?
HUNDREDMARK: She`s almost 4.
GRACE: OK. Have you ever left her alone all night so you can go booze it up?
HUNDREDMARK: No, I haven`t, but she`s almost 4.
(CROSSTALK)
HUNDREDMARK: And again, I`m not saying it`s necessarily a good parenting decision, but it`s not criminal. And we let parents make bad
decisions all the time. We let them make the decision whether or not they want to vaccinate their children, and that may be more dangerous -- not
vaccinating them may be more dangerous than anything.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As smoke still poured from the attic of this house.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two children died in the fire.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There were deadly flames. The two children home alone when the fire started.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hall was charged with two counts of felony child endangering in connection with Saturday`s fire. She could face a maximum
of six years in prison. Her sister, Jessica Hall, told us over the phone, Of course, Chastity`s mother and father are devastated. They`re very much
missed and will be forever missed and loved in our hearts. They were such a light, so full of life and so intelligent. They were always smiling and
always had something nice to say. We`re all very devastated over their loss.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The maximum Mommy can face on that charge is six years. But that is simply on child endangerment. These two children died. The house
burned to the ground while Mommy is out partying and getting drunk.
To Melissa Neeley, anchor joining me from news WLW. Melissa, the mom is already charged with two counts of child endangerment. It`s my
understanding that there`s going to be on Wednesday a preliminary hearing in this case. And the grand jury likely knows that. Right now, we don`t
know the cause of the fire. Is that right, Melissa?
NEELEY: That is right. We don`t know the cause of the fire, and they are still investigating what exactly caused that. And so that may have an
outcome of what comes in the hearings against Hall.
GRACE: So what I`m thinking about -- to Dr. Tim Gallagher, forensic pathologist. Also, Dr. Gallagher, we don`t know if these children had any
sedatives in their system to make them sleep. We don`t know if they were given benadryl. We don`t know if they died from smoke inhalation because
we don`t have the cause of yet death yet, to my understanding. So actually, the fact that the jury passed on the case -- they know there`s
going to be a preliminary hearing on Wednesday. We`re waiting on a cause of death on the children, and we don`t know why the fire was started.
How long does it take if a -- if a body has been burned, Dr. Gallagher, to determine if the body had any sedatives or medicine in it?
DR. TIM GALLAGHER, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST (via telephone): Well, thanks for having me again on the show, Nancy. Very good question. That`s going
to be determined at autopsy, and quite often, it takes about two weeks for the results to come back for us to determine what chemicals were in the
child`s bloodstream.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Chastity Hall left the two children home alone. She decided that she would put on her makeup and go out and party.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The house caught on fire.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Deadly flames.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Killing 10-year-old Malea Bradburn and 9-year-old Malachi Bradburn.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you have children involved, you still have a job to do, but it makes it tougher to do your job.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have two children that we believe died in the fire.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do I think there should be more? Yes. Hopefully, she ends up getting more because that`s what she deserves. She left her
kids home alone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What kind of kids were they?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re funny, outgoing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have a heart for little kids. I think they should sock it to the parents.
GRACE: Chief Shaffer, could you tell, did the mom smell like alcohol?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I actually -- at that point, Nancy, I was -- my focus was entirely on the children. I -- my medic crews did observe or
smell alcohol on her breath.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: This is set to go to a preliminary hearing in about 48 hours. Mommy out boozing and partying all night long. She stops by the house,
where her two little children are at around 1:45, to put on more makeup and freshen up to go back out partying. That`s her daughter and her son, Malea
and Malachi.
She leaves the home around 2:00, 2:30 AM. By 3:30, that home is up in blazes. It burns to the ground. The children`s bodies are not found until
10:30 AM. That`s how long it took to extricate, to find, to locate and extricate their bodies. Why were they in the basement? We`re waiting for
cause of death and cause of the fire.
Joining me, Robert Rowe, arson investigator, Pyrocop Inc. Mr. Rowe, when you have a home that`s burned to the ground, it`s going to be very
difficult to find the cause of the fire. Was a curling iron left on? Was a cigarette dropped into a bathroom trash can? We don`t know. Was there
an electrical explosion? Was there a fireplace? We know it`s not a Christmas tree this time. So what was it?
How do you even start finding cause of fire, the origin of the fire?
ROWE: The first thing investigators do is they`ll isolate the actual fire scene. And they`ll start their investigation methodically by working
from the least area of damage, fire damage, to the heaviest amount of fire damage. This case, I understand that the floor had burned through
completely, which indicates the fire was probably burning for some time before fire department arrived.
GRACE: You know what`s interesting in the shots of the home, the center part burned the most, which suggests to me that`s where the fire
started. It started there. It got -- it progressed further there.
To Dr. Gallagher. When you have bodies, in this case of two little children, that are possibly charred, how do you determine cause of death,
smoke inhalation or did they actually burn?
GALLAGHER: Well, thanks again for having me on the show, Nancy. During the autopsy, a lot of the inner organs are preserved and we`d be
able to tell from airways whether the children have breathed in the smoke from the fire, showing that they were alive at the time the fire were
burning, or if there were any agents in their blood, any drugs, any things that shouldn`t be there in their blood. We`ll be able to determine all
that at the time of autopsy.
GRACE: And again, we are not pointing the finger at anybody. We don`t know the cause of the fire. We don`t know how it originated. We
don`t know if it was an accident. But what I do know -- Mommy says there was no fire when she was there at 1:45 to 2:30 and the children were
asleep.
Unleash the lawyers, Hugo Rodriguez and Trinity Hundredmark. We already know -- we were talking about felony murder earlier, Hugo -- that
she`s already charged with two counts of felony child endangerment. Now, if a death occurred during that endangerment, that is felony murder. Do
you agree with the textbook definition of felony murder?
RODRIGUEZ: I agree that that may be the textbook, but I think that there has to be a causation factor. I just don`t think that it is -- there
has to be a causation factor to go along with the felony murder. You put it into place. You had an intention for something to happen that went
awry.
Here, I haven`t heard it yet as to causation. But again, like you said, we`re going to have to wait for the entirety to come in. The key is,
what started the fire? Who started the fire? How did it occur?
GRACE: Well, the fact that she`s...
RODRIGUEZ: Then you`ll have answers to some of those other questions.
GRACE: ... in the middle of child endangerment -- she`s already charged with that felony, leaving her children alone in a home to die in a
fire -- you know, Matt Zarrell, the police and fire people didn`t even know children were there.
What`s going to happen at the preliminary hearing? This grand jury could have been waiting on cause of death and origin of fire, Matt.
ZARRELL: Yes, what`s going to happen is, is that they`re going to have a hearing where they determine if there`s enough probable cause to
continue the case. The judge will look at the evidence, make his decision. And then the prosecutor says they`re going to take it right back to the
grand jury.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: We go live to Minnesota for an incredible story that`s almost too hard to believe. A mainstream Christian church with a huge following
caught in the mix of parents, church goers and police. A charismatic pastor calls on the church to mimic biblical scripture and hand over their
firstborn. Only, in this case, church goers actually hand over their firstborn girls as young as 12. Pastor Victor Bernard, allegedly secludes
at least 10 young girls he calls the maidens in an obscure camp site where he repeatedly molests the girls, every one of them every single day for 10
long years. 12 years old. Most of them never knowing a normal life with their mother and father.
And what is so amazing about this to me is the parents went along with it, convinced it`s the word of God. As we go to air, we learn Victor
Bernard spotted in Brazil, living in a gated beachside condo.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The photos in this Brazilian newspaper show a man described as less powerful than she remembers, ragged.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Victor Bernard told the cult members he represented Christ, convincing them to give up their teenage daughters.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Spiritual coercion, spiritual intimidation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Victor Bernard fled the camp with some of his religious followers and with police in pursuit.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bernard was on the run in Brazil by then. But still controlled his followers from afar.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Joining me tonight Lindsay Tornambe, one of the alleged sex abuse victims of this charismatic pastor. I hate to even use that word
with this guy, that took advantage of his congregation and their children. What`s so amazing to me is the parents hand the girls over to this pastor,
he takes them out -- I believe this is in Minnesota -- he takes them out -- I`m showing you the pictures right now of this rural area where he takes
them to live in some camp. Shepherd`s camp. Didn`t anybody notice it was all girls? While the boys were kept segregated from the girls? With me
Jack Tomczak KTLK, and Lindsay Tornambe, one of the alleged victims of Pastor Victor Bernard. She, unlike many others, reported the sex abuse to
the local police. Lindsay, thank you so much for being with us.
LINDSAY TORNAMBE: Hi, thank you, Nancy Grace.
GRACE: You know, Lindsay, he is spotted. He has been spotted in Brazil, living in a luxurious beachside gated community right on a
beautiful strip of water. Lindsey, what our viewers want to know is how you got sent to shepherd`s camp to start with.
TORNAMBE: Um, my parents and Victor met each other back in `96, and we made visits out there. And then eventually moved out there in `98.
GRACE: Moved to where?
TORNAMBE: To Finneson (ph), Minnesota.
GRACE: Lindsay, people cannot understand this story. Tell me what it was like the day that you left your home, left your mother and father, and
go to shepherd`s camp?
TORNAMBE: For me, I didn`t understand exactly what was going on, the commitment that was being asked of me. I thought I was going to be there
for like a summer camp. I remember my parents being really sad, and I didn`t understand why. So -- but then as the months went on, it became
clear that I wouldn`t be going home. That I was to stay there and basically serve Victor.
GRACE: Lindsay, when did you realize your parents were not coming to get you?
TORNAMBE: It was the first time that Victor ever sexually abused me. I think that was when it really hit me that I was there for another purpose
than to just help clean or cook.
GRACE: So, basically, there are all these girls, as young as 12 years old, living with this grown man in a secluded rural area of Minnesota. And
you cook and clean and clean and cook until he molests you?
TORNAMBE: Yes, pretty much.
GRACE: What did he tell you, Lindsay, to make you think this was God`s will that you be raped by the pastor?
TORNAMBE: He told me that it was a way of God showing me how much he loves me, that it was something that was biblical and spiritual. He would
reference scripture. He would say that even though he was having sex with me, I would still remain a virgin because he was Christ in the flesh.
GRACE: I`m so distraught on so many levels, I don`t even know what to address first. Granted, I have not read the whole Bible. Guilty. What
scripture could he have possibly read to you to somehow legitimize raping a child, a 12-year-old child? How could -- what scripture.
TORNAMBE: He would talk about how Jesus Christ had Mary Magdalene and other women, who followed him. How the apostle Paul had Phoebe. I know he
met with my parents at one point.
GRACE: Well, Mary Magdalene was not 12 years old. I can guarantee. That much I do know. Well, forget about him using the holy scripture so he
could molest children. Let me take that out of this equation. Did you ever tell your parents this guy has raped me or were you too young to
really even understand what to say?
TORNAMBE: Yes, at that point I didn`t understand that it was rape. In my mind I felt like it was wrong, but I felt I was too scared to say
anything. And I didn`t tell them at that point.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s kind of numbing, it`s like a wave of emotion. Like (inaudible) his wife anymore. He did anything that his wife
would have done. He kind of tore our family apart and so many other families.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are talking about a charismatic evangelist. There he is, Victor Bernard. He has been spotted in Brazil living in an exclusive gated
community in Brazil, at Pippa (ph) Beach. On vacation, okay? He needs to be in jail. You are seeing video of Pippa Beach from the Travel Channel.
This is where this guy has been living.
Now, according to police, and with me is one of his victims, all right? Excuse me, one of his alleged victims. Parents were convinced by
this man, this charismatic evangelist, to hand their firstborn girls over to him to go to this camp. Shepherd`s camp. Lindsay Tornambe is with me,
one of Pastor Bernard`s alleged victims. She was sent to shepherd`s camp by her parents. They were devotees of Victor Bernard`s, and they thought
it was God`s will. You said something that really struck me. You said when you left home, your parents seemed really sad. What do you remember
about that?
TORNAMBE: I remember my dad crying and I asked him why. He said, you know, that he was really sad and he was going to miss me, and I remember
telling him, I was like, don`t be sad, I will just be gone for the summer. I mean, I guess they understood that it was a lifetime commitment. I had
no idea what I was walking into.
GRACE: Do you believe, Lindsay Tornambe, by the time he raped you and you went there when you were age 12 and commenced cooking and cleaning, he
had already, to your knowledge, do you believe he had already been molesting the other girls?
TORNAMBE: I think it`s possible that he was definitely molesting some, yes.
GRACE: Well, I know this. I know he has 59 counts of child molestation in various form. 59 counts.
Joining me is Rick Ross, cult expert, author of "Cult Inside Out: How People Get In and Can Get Out." Rick Roth, how could so many parents -- I
hate to drop my children off at school. I wanted them to stay with me. How could so many parents be convinced to let their children go -- this is
Minnesota. This is not some story in some other country we don`t know anything about. This is here, in America, in the heartland, in Minnesota.
And congregational parents convinced to hand over their girls to this perv?
RICK ROSS, CULT EXPERT: Well, Nancy, I think it`s really kind of a con, a bait and switch, where people think they are getting involved with a
church, but what they are really becoming involved in is a destructive cult. And these things come on slow, and some of the families have talked
about that. They talked about how there was a kind of step-by-step process in which they were gradually controlled more and more and more.
GRACE: But why? Why would anybody buy into this? Any parent in their right mind?
ROSS: I think they are not in their right mind. They are under undue influence and they have gone through a process of isolation and coercive
persuasion that this Victor Bernard was well, he was a well-oiled machine, working on the families and working on the parents. Some the parents have
said they felt terribly betrayed by him, they have felt abused by him and they have spoken out. Others actually refuse to acknowledge their
children`s complaints.
GRACE: Okay, hold on, hold on, right there, Rick Ross, their children`s complaints, they refuse to acknowledge them. Greg Cason,
psychologist, L.A., in all the years that I prosecuted child meteorologist, horrible, horrible child molestation, I never had a single mother, not one
that would believe her husband/lover, slash boyfriend, slash live-in, whatever. They never believe that they were guilty. They wanted to
believe the child was making it all up. And I would say, observe. Your 5- year-old girl does not have a hymen. Okay? Something happened. She is not a virgin. And she is 5. And somehow in their mind, they would say oh,
well, she goes to gymnastics. I mean, they come up. What is it -- do they feel guilty that they participated in the decision to introduce this person
into their child`s life?
CASON: Nancy, I think it`s more than they feel guilty. I think they would be culpable, of course, in the decision. But then it would mean not
only is that person that they married, that they took into their family, a monster, that they, too, are a monster. And they are inflicting undue
damage on their own child that will never be repaired.
GRACE: To Lindsay Tornambe, and also with me, and I`m about to go to KTLK`s Jack Tomczak. Lindsay, were you ever able to tell your parents that
this pastor raped you and the other girls who have reported that they started being raped at 12 years old and it went through age 20, at least?
Did you ever tell them?
TORNAMBE: I told them in 2012 what had happened.
GRACE: What was their reaction?
TORNAMBE: My mom -- she didn`t want to hear it. The last thing she ever said to me was I know there were mistakes made in Minnesota, but I
believe Victor is a man of God and I`m going to follow him.
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait, wait, wait. I think my head is blowing off, Lindsay. Wait a minute, I`m seriously having a horrible pain
in my head when you said that. So you tell your mom this guy raped you as a child and it went on for a long time, years, and she said that she still
believes he is a man of God?
TORNAMBE: Yes.
GRACE: Okay. Do you know what? I hear you and I believe you, by God, and I guarantee you when this guy gets brought back to the United
States, which he will, oh, yes, he will. A jury is going to believe you. A jury is going to believe you, Lindsay, and I know you can go on with your
life and I know you are very strong. You have got to believe that we believe you and the police believe you.
Jack Tomczak, KTLK, please tell me this guy is cooling his heels and everything else in a Brazilian prison?
TOMCZAK: Yes, they will bring him back when they catch him, and he will face the 59 counts, and hopefully this man will be brought to justice.
GRACE: He was caught in Brazil living it up in some kind of a beach- side community. He has been busted. When will he be extradited to the U.S.?
TOMCZAK: From what I have seen, they`re still working on that. I don`t have a hard time frame on it. What I found interesting, he was with
a 33-year-old woman. A little old for him, isn`t it?
GRACE: Does she have a daughter? This is video from the Travel Channel. Jack, he is in a Brazilian jail right now? I wonder what that`s
like. A Brazilian jail. I bet they don`t have the constitutional rights and privileges you have in the U.S.
TOMCZAK: He may be begging to be extradited here, get out of that prison into one of our prisons.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: When a beautiful 5-year-old little boy dies in the hospital, heartbreak for mommy who chronicles her son`s final days. Tonight police
ask did mommy inject a lethal dose of salt into her child`s feeding tube? In the last hours, the jury, hands down a verdict.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It appears it was a common table salt that would you buy at any supermarket.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police get the bag from the feeding machine in the middle of the room.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was really -- what ended up causing his demise.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Get rid of it and don`t tell anybody.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Little Garnett Spears died of brain damage caused by extensive salt poisoning. I have the blog that mommy kept right here, where she
describes her son in the hospital screaming in pain, that his head hurt. They had to try and take him off the bed and lay him down flat. He is in
so much pain. Isn`t it true, to Kathleen Maloney, WOR, that it comes out in court that this woman, Lacy Spears, after her child is rushed to the
hospital, calls a neighbor and says, quick, go to the house and get his feeding bag, throw it away and don`t tell anybody? Kathleen?
MALONEY: As a matter of fact, that`s what the prosecutors say happened. Investigators found two feeding bags with quite a lot of salt
residue on them in her home when they investigated.
GRACE: In the last hours, a verdict has been handed down. Lacy Spears has been found guilty on murder two, that is depraved indifference
to human life. To Autumn Hunt, a friend of Lacy Spears, do you believe the jury is right or do you believe there is some type of mistake?
AUTUMN HUNT, FRIEND: I suspected that verdict. I`m not going to say that I agree with them as far as that she maliciously murdered her child.
But I expected the verdict.
GRACE: Can I ask you how if she did not maliciously do this, how there were the equivalent to 69 McDonald`s salt packets in the child`s
feeding tube?
HUNT: I feel it was a little bit over the top the amount of salt that was in there. But I question her mental state when she was doing it. I
don`t feel like she set out to kill her child.
GRACE: Stacey Newman, was there ever a mental defense raised at trial?
NEWMAN: There wasn`t. At one point they were going to say Munchausen by proxy. But neither the prosecution or the defense went with that. The
defense tried to blame the hospital for not giving him enough fluids. The prosecution said, they had more than enough evidence. They didn`t need to
go with Munchausen by proxy.
GRACE: Dr. Gallagher, forensic pathologist, this child died an extremely painful death, brain damage caused by salt poisoning. That`s not
dehydration. It`s not the hospital`s fault he didn`t have enough water.
GALLAGHER: You are absolutely right, Nancy. The hospital is responsible for the child`s hydration. But that`s a very extreme amount of
salt given to the child by the parent, if that`s in fact true. There`s nothing the hospital could have done to alleviate that situation.
GRACE: Autumn Hunt, you are saying, you are a friend of Lacy Spears, you think she had a mental illness of some sort that made her do this?
HUNT: That`s the only conclusion that I come to. That`s not --
GRACE: Did you ever know her to have a mental illness?
HUNT: No. That`s why it was so hard for me to believe that she could do something like that. Because I trusted her with my child all the time.
I don`t feel that anyone in their right mind or completely sane could harm their child.
GRACE: And not only that, chronicle it on social media, Facebook, tweeting, the mommy blog, the works about all the pain her child was
suffering as she watched him die. Salt mom convicted, murder two.
Let`s remember American hero, Army First Lieutenant David Fraser, just 25. Houston. A West Point grad, engineering excellence award named in his
honor. Loved NASCAR, country music and guitar. From a military family. Parents, Richard and Helen. Brother Patrick. David Fraser, American hero.
See you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.
END
