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Nancy Grace
Bobbi Kristina`s Fiance Threatens Suicide on Twitter
Aired March 04, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. American songbird superstar Whitney Houston`s only child in a coma, found unconscious face
down in a tub, doctors telling family prepare for the worst.
Bombshell tonight. Family rushing to Bobbi Kristina`s bedside on this, her 22nd birthday, where Whitney Houston`s only child remains in a coma. And
in a stunning turn, Bobbi Kristina`s live-in fiance, Nick Gordon, threatens suicide after Gordon comes under fire for his CPR attempts on Bobbi
Kristina. What really did happen in Whitney Houston`s exclusive condo the day her daughter, Bobbi Kristina, found face down in a tub of water?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A 21-year-old female in a bathtub face down.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nick Gordon tweeted, I forgive you, Bobby Brown. What`s love (ph). At least we could get together and deal with this as a
family.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The chance that someone saw something are pretty high.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live, Silver Spring, extremely agitated parents in an uproar after child services investigates them on a complaint they let their
children, just 6 and 10, walk over a mile each way through busy thoroughfares to a playground. Think about it, a 6-year-old, a 10-year-old
alone for over two miles through a commercial area? Well, the parents call it free range -- you know, like the chicken, free range? But others call
it neglect.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Should your little (INAUDIBLE) walk home alone?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I need my kids to be independent. I need resiliency. They need to learn the confidence. The only way they`re going
to grown up to be strong, confident adults is by having that freedom and independence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. American songbird superstar Whitney Houston`s only child, her daughter, Bobbi Kristina, in a coma, found unconscious face down
in the bathtub, doctors telling family prepare for the worst.
Bombshell tonight. Family rushing to Bobbi Kristina`s bedside on this, the night of her 22nd birthday. And in a stunning turn, Bobbi
Kristina`s live-in fiance threatens suicide, this after Nick Gordon coming under fire for his CPR attempts on Bobbi Kristina. What really happened in
Whitney Houston`s exclusive condo the day her little girl found face down in a tub of water?
Joining me right now, national correspondent for Radaronline.com Alan Duke. I don`t understand what`s happening. How do we know Nick Gordon
threatened suicide?
ALAN DUKE, RADARONLINE.COM: Well, his tweet, "I`m so hurt, I want to do myself in." I e-mailed his lawyer to see if his client is OK because
I`m really concerned when somebody starts tweeting such desperation to the public.
But he`s been getting increasingly sadder in his tweets. He`s getting it from several sides, not only from the Brown family and Houstons, who
won`t let him go and visit Bobbi Kristina at the hospital, he`s getting it from the cops, who are investigating what happened in the house in the
weeks and months ever before that. And he`s also getting it from himself, feeling guilty, perhaps, about the situation that Bobbi Kristina is in.
GRACE: Now, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa! Whoa, whoa whoa! Hold it! Everybody, you`re seeing video of Whitney Houston and her
daughter, her only child, Bobbi Kristina, singing on ABC`s "GMA," "Good Morning America."
In the last hours, we learn her fiance there at the time she is dragged out of the bathtub facing face down in a tub of water, dragged out
by their friend. Now we learn that Nick Gordon threatening suicide!
So Alan Duke, Radaronline.com, what would move him to threaten suicide?
DUKE: Well, he`s been tweeting about the CPR efforts and his regrets that the CPR effort was not as effective as it could have been, that it
took 15 minutes for paramedics to get there. But you read in his tweet some feeling -- if not criminal guilt, certainly personal guilt is what I`m
talking about, that he wished that he could have done more to preserve her and to save her when she was found in the tub.
So I mean, that would work on anybody, I`m sure, in that situation.
GRACE: Everybody, you`re seeing Whitney Houston`s "My Love Is Your Love" from Arista Records.
Her only child, Bobbi Kristina, fighting for her life, Emory Hospital, found face down unconscious in a bathtub. This is the last thing Whitney
would have wished for her daughter. And many wondering tonight why suicide threats on behalf of Nick Gordon, her live-in fiance.
OK, Alan Duke, you`ve gone on a couple of times about the family not getting along. Well, the family has never gotten along with Nick Gordon.
For those of you just joining us, her fiance threatening suicide. Not only that, we know that today, on Bobbi Kristina`s 22nd birthday, her
family rushing to her bedside there at Emory University Hospital, one of the top 10 neurological hospitals in the country.
Tweets, other tweets by the fiance about money, about disagreements with the father. Alan Duke, why he has been banned from Bobbi Kristina`s
bedside?
DUKE: Well, as you note, it`s been bad blood for a long time, but it`s gotten worse. Once the family realized what they thought happened to
Bobbi Kristina, they started shutting him out from the very first day, getting the keys to the townhouse where he lived and banning him from the
hospital. Of course, some of the Houstons already have a temporary restraining order out on him because they feared violence from Nick Gordon.
It didn`t get any better than that. He worked quietly behind the scenes, hired a lawyer to help him, but it still didn`t get any better, and
now he`s resorted to really some nasty tweets against the Brown family.
GRACE: OK, nasty tweets regarding what?
DUKE: Well, about Bobby Brown, suggesting Bobby Brown was an absent father and that Bobby Brown is only there for the limelight when it
involves his daughter and suggesting that he, Nick, was the one who was helping solve any problems that she had, not Bobby Brown, and now he`s
being forced out.
GRACE: OK, everybody, in the last hours, we learn that her fiance threatening suicide on this, her 22nd birthday.
To Candace Trunzo, senior news editor, Dailymail.com. Candace, what more do we know?
CANDACE TRUNZO, DAILYMAIL.COM (via telephone): Well, we know that it`s an incredibly sad day as Bobbi Kristina turns 22 today. And we know
that family has rallied around.
But we also know that Nick has not been able to see her. And the reason that he hasn`t is that Bobby Brown wants to find out from Nick
Gordon exactly what happened, his account of what happened on that day, the day the Bobbi Kristina was found face down in the bathtub. And to this,
day Nick Gordon has not related to anyone in the family, at least to their satisfaction, what exactly happened on the day that Bobbi Kristina fell
unconscious.
GRACE: Look at this. It`s Polish TV, TV (INAUDIBLE) Whitney is singing with baby Bobbi Kristina. That little baby has grown up into a 22-
year-old woman, today. And her voice developed into that of a songbird, just like her mother. Everybody, you`re seeing Polish TV with Whitney
Houston with little Bobbi Kristina.
You know, another thing I want to ask you about, Alan Duke. We have learned -- now, that`s from Bobbi Kristina`s Twitter account. Listen to
this voice, everybody.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BOBBI KRISTINA BROWN, WHITNEY HOUSTON`S DAUGHTER: (SINGING) I`ve heard that your dreams came true because she gave you things I couldn`t
give to you, old friend...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Now, that`s a cappella and that`s her voice that she has been (ph) struggling to cut an album, to get it out there. She`s on the cusp of
that when she is found basically unconscious, no heartbeat. And she`s been in a medically-induced coma.
Dr. Ciro Ramos, neurologist with University Hospital`s Case Medical Center. Dr. Ramos, what`s going to happen with Bobbi Kristina if she
remains in this medically-induced coma? We know last week, they tried to take her out of the coma. She went into severe convulsions and seizures.
What happens to a patient`s body when they remain in a coma for a long period of time?
DR. CIRO RAMOS ESTEBANEZ, NEUROLOGIST: Well, what we typically do is we try to decrease the metabolic rate, the needs from the glucose and
oxygen standpoint, both in the brain and in the other organs in the body. And that way, we would eventually prevent injury and help healing.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining me tonight, Robert Schalk out of New York, Peter Odom out of D.C. When you`re the person found in the home,
for instance, with Bobbi Kristina...
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right.
GRACE: ... and then threatening to commit suicide after that -- many people are implying guilt out of that, that he had something to do with it.
That`s not necessarily true, Peter Odom.
ODOM: I agree with you, Nancy.
GRACE: From what we know, he could be overcome at this moment with grief, with feeling like a lot of survivors feel, What could I have done
differently? What did I do wrong?
ODOM: Of course.
GRACE: Did I not do CPR correctly?
ODOM: Of course.
GRACE: Dealing with not getting to see her. This is her 22nd birthday. I mean...
ODOM: Right. Under these particular circumstances, I don`t think you can read that as being some sort of an indication of guilt. His biggest
problem isn`t guilt. His biggest problem has been his silence. And I know that, you know, as a defense attorney, I`m reluctant to say that silence is
an implication of guilt, but you know, people want to know and he knows and he`s not saying, and that`s at least in part the reason that the family has
alienated him. So he`s only got...
GRACE: Put him up, please!
ODOM: ... himself to blame.
GRACE: Put up Peter and Schalk. Peter Odom, you`re right. You`re right about that. And I spoke at length with his lawyer, Randy Kessler,
one of his lawyers. And Kessler made it very clear to me, Schalk. He said, Look, Bobby Brown is angry that Gordon hasn`t told him what happened.
But we`ve gone to the authorities. We`ve told police what happened, and that`s all that matters.
But can you blame Bobby Brown? Can you blame the father for being mad and angry? I mean...
ROBERT SCHALK, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No. He`s grieving.
GRACE: ... if the last person with his daughter before she goes into a medically-induced coma won`t tell you what happened? You know what? I
see why Bobby Brown is mad.
SCHALK: I see why he`s mad, too. I agree with what Kessler is doing. He took him to the authorities. That`s his biggest concern, is whether or
not the authorities are coming after him. But Bobby Brown`s anger may be misdirected because he`s bringing it on himself. Why can`t they
(INAUDIBLE) is it because there`s so much beef between the family members and -- and the fiance? Bobby Brown obviously wants to know what happened,
but he has no right to know what happened. I know that`s not the answer that he wants...
GRACE: Whoa! Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait! You know what, Caryn Stark? Maybe that is true in Robert Schalk`s code of defense attorney logic, but
in the real world, I think Bobby Brown does have a right to know what happened to his daughter. That`s complete BS! I mean, come on, people!
This is her 22nd birthday. She`s laying in a medically-induced coma. We still don`t know what happened. Of course he`s (INAUDIBLE) Now Nick
Gordon jumps up and threatens suicide!
CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, I don`t know if I`m concerned about Nick Gordon and suicide because I`m not sure of that. That just may be a
cry, you know, for people to pay attention to him, to get him in there, Nancy.
But Bobby Brown is her father, and he deserves to be there. He definitely deserves to be there, and I imagine he has concerns about her.
He`s not doing this for the publicity. He has a connection to her. There`s just bad blood between them so they just don`t stop all this
arguing, which is ridiculous.
GRACE: Well, you know what? And I understand why, Caryn Stark, people are suggesting, Oh, he`s threatening suicide because he had
something do with her condition. That is not necessarily true. He has been taken away from the woman he`s engaged to. He hasn`t been able to see
her. It`s her 22nd birthday. She still remains in a coma.
So before we paint this in a nefarious -- with a nefarious brush, I think all that has to be taken into account.
Everyone joining us tonight, it`s Bobbi Kristina`s 22nd birthday. We have some updates about her condition. She remains in a medically-induced
coma. Her relative, Jarod (ph) Brown, created a "Pray for B.K." video, begging the public for prayers.
(VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Possible cardiac arrest.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I could not see her like that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tonight marks the 22nd birthday of Whitney Houston`s only child, Bobbi Kristina Brown, family rushing to her bedside tonight as she
remains in a medically-induced coma, this as her fiance threatens suicide.
Not only that, Alan Duke, a lot has been made of tweets by Nick Gordon arguing, suggesting that her whole family is all about the money, Whitney
Houston`s money. What do those tweets reveal?
DUKE: Well, he`s not the only one. Yes, his tweets suggest that the Browns are enjoying this too much, that they`re trying to promote their own
finances or their own careers with all the attention the media is giving them. Now, whether that is true or not from Gordon`s perspective, this has
been quite a media spectacle for the Brown family. And of course, the reports that they might be doing a reality television show -- those don`t
surprise me. I`m not sure what network would want to carry it, though.
GRACE: You are seeing Bravo`s reality show "Being Bobby Brown."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Immediately called 911.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bobbi Kristina Brown...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... unresponsive in a bathtub.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The chances that someone saw or heard something that day are pretty high.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Meanwhile, the man she calls the love of her life is not at her bedside.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Back out to Alan Duke, national correspondent with Radaronline.com. We confirmed with a producer -- everybody, you`re seeing
Lifetime`s "The Houstons on Our Own." They`ve got a long history both with Bobbi Kristina and her mother and father -- "Being Bobby Brown" reality
show. Let`s see that, Liz -- reality show. And we have confirmed with a producer that family members -- and let me stress this is not Bobby Brown,
her father, OK? Her father is not part of this, and he`s made that clear. But other family members.
Alan Duke, you`re seeing video of Bravo`s "Being Bobby Brown." Take a look at this. There`s Bobbi Kristina right there, I think. There you go -
- that other family members are resurrecting old reality footage that they pitched a long time ago and are commencing shooting another reality -- a
Brown reality show -- repeat, not Bobby Brown, but other family members.
DUKE: Yes. It`s -- there are a lot of them, a lot of members of the Brown family. Some of them aspire to entertainment careers. Others would
like to have some financial incentives.
But who`s going to watch that? I mean, the "Being Bobby Brown" TV show that was on years ago with Whitney -- that was entertaining. I
remember some of the episodes and seeing young Bobbi Kristina on it. But I`m not sure I want to see these Browns on television. I`m very informed
about what`s happening behind the scenes, and it is very sad. I don`t want to see it on television.
GRACE: Everybody, right now, you`re seeing video from Bravo reality show "Being Bobby Brown."
To Clark Goldband, also on the story. What are we learning from Nick Gordon`s tweets? What are we learning about any money grabs going on,
according to him anyway?
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yes, Nancy, when you read Nick Gordon`s tweets, this is a man who is very stressed out and grieving that
he cannot see his fiance, Bobbi Kristina.
Now, Nancy, some interesting personal note for you. Last night to celebrate Bobbi Kristina`s 22nd birthday, Nick Gordon said, in fact, he was
going to be watching their favorite movie together. So he posted a shot of him watching a film. I believe it was "The Hobbit." And Nick Gordon just
really wants to see Bobbi Kristina. Of course, we know the response from the is that Nick Gordon needs to talk to Bobby Brown before that is allowed
to happen.
GRACE: And to Candace Trunzo, senior news editor, Dailymail.com -- everybody, there you see Whitney Houston singing on stage. As we go into
this 22nd birthday evening, I know the family is at her bedside. Do we know any change in her condition at all?
TRUNZO: Nancy, as far as we`ve heard, there has been no change. There was a blip last week, where they tried to take her off the drugs that
might take her out of the coma. But she had a series of seizures, and they put her right back on those drugs. She is still in the same really sad,
bad shape.
GRACE: Right. Everyone, between the tracheotomy that has just been performed on Bobbi Kristina, she`s breathing through that, the family at
the bedside, a 22nd birthday almost passed, her relative, Jarod (ph) Brown, creating this video begging for your prayers.
(VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Live, Silver Spring. Extremely educated parents in an uproar after child services investigates them on a complaint they let their
children, just 6 and 10 years old, walk over a mile each way through busy thoroughfares to a playground. Think about it. A six-year-old and a ten-
year-old child, alone for two miles through a commercial area? Now, these parents call it free range parenting, you know, like the chicken. But
others call it neglect.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This Maryland couple allowed their two young children, ages 10 and 6, to walk home from a park without adult
supervision.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re giving our children the (inaudible) that we had. The idea that kids can be trusted to go down the block, to play in
the park, to walk home from school. Basically encounter the world on their own.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Dan O`Donnell, anchor with WISN. What happened?
O`DONNELL: Well, these two children as you mentioned, Nancy, age 6 and 10, were allowed by their parents to walk home from this park they were
playing in. Apparently, this is something that the parents do quite often. These children are, as you said, free range children using the parents
words, that they are able to just go off on their own for extended periods of time.
GRACE: I want to go out to special guest, two of them joining us tonight. Lenore Skenazy, author of "Free Range Kids" and host of "World`s
Worst Mom." Also with us, lawyer for the free range parents, Matthew Dowd out of DC. And with us, Mark Klaas, president and founder of the Klaas
Kids Foundation.
Lenore, thank you for being with us. Explain to me how it`s okay to let your children walk alone through two miles through a busy thoroughfare?
LENORE SKENAZY, AUTHOR: Well, what I advocate at free range kids and what the Matit (ph) family was doing was something that my parents did with
me and that Daniele, the mom`s parents, did with her. Which is teaching us to cross the street safely, look both ways, that you can talk to people but
you can never go off with anybody. And gradually giving the kids a little more independence. Making sure that they understand the rules. Making
sure they come back when they are supposed to. And just as my mom let me walk to school back in the days when I was six years old and my crossing
guard -- crossing guards back then were ten, just like the boy in this story. She is letting her children do this. I let my own children do this
too.
GRACE: You let your children walk two miles unattended?
SKENAZY: I let my children learn how to be independent, safe and cautious when they are out in the world. Because thankfully, we are living
in safer times today than 1963. The crime rate today is lower than when I was growing up. And lower than when most of today`s parents were growing
up. And if you were given the opportunity by your parents to play outside, go to the park, walk to school, your parents were letting you do it at a
time when the crime rate was higher.
GRACE: Ms. Skenazy, crime rate has not lowered in certain areas.
SKENAZY: That`s true.
GRACE: Like Silver Spring, Maryland, which has the highest crime rate in all of Montgomery County. If you can see a monitor, we`re showing you
how many sex offenders within a ten mile radius, 607 registered sex offenders. With me is Lenore Skenazy, author of "Free Range Kids," host of
`World`s Worst Mom," and I`m very familiar with your work. You are extremely educated, very articulate.
SKENAZY: Thank you.
GRACE: I understand your theory. I too could ride my bicycle all afternoon. I`ve walked home from school.
SKENAZY: Did you like it?
GRACE: Yes, I did. But guess what? I don`t have my children do that. Do you know why?
SKENAZY: No.
GRACE: I want you to look at this video, Lenore, if I may call you that, could you please show this video, Liz. This is Carla --
SKENAZY: I`ve seen this video. We`ve all seen this video.
GRACE: Everyone, Carly Brucia (ph) is approached. She`s been told not to talk to strangers. Keep watching. She is walking across the car
wash. The last time she`s ever seen alive. Right here. Walking home. She was just walking a few blocks. She`s one of so many people. There is
Etan Patts (ph). Jacey Dugard (ph). Ben Ownby (ph), Sean Hornback (ph). All very close to home. Some in rural areas where there is no crime. Some
in other areas, where there is more crime. Jacey Dugard, her stepfather saw her being abducted at the bus stop. She was that close to him. Ownby.
Very near his home, walking home from the school bus stop. Hornback, out riding his bike, like I used to do, like Lenore Skenazy did growing up.
Samantha Runyon in her grandmother`s front yard.
That is why this is wrong.
Matthew Dowd joining me, the lawyer, very well-respected lawyer out of D.C. The lawyer for the free-range parents. I understand that your
clients are angry. Child Protective Services opened an investigation. And they have got this claim that will remain open I guess for five years.
Tell me your thoughts, Mr. Dowd.
MATTHEW DOWD, ATTORNEY: That is correct, Nancy. Thank you for having me on. I wouldn`t characterize our clients as angry, more as concerned. I
would be concerned as well too. Put yourself in their shoes. What they came home to one day is the threat of the government seizing their children
without --
GRACE: Hold on, Mr. Dowd. Everybody, you are seeing something from Washington Post. And P.S., Matthew Dowd. They just showed a tag that said
I`m a free-range kid, I`m not lost. That is like a sign over their head screaming kidnap me, perv. OK? A tag that says I`m alone. Please steal
me.
DOWD: That`s not right, Nancy. I would have to say the issue here, the legal issue, which is what we`re focusing on is that we want a system
where Child Protective Services has some obligation to show that there is, quote, a substantial risk of harm to the children. As of today, the agency
has never shown any proof that there is a substantial risk of harm. And I understand that you put up some statistics and some images, but I would
invite you to come down to this neighborhood in Silver Spring. It is one of the safest neighborhoods in the entire country.
GRACE: Mr. Dowd, you know what, let me see him in a two-box, please, Mr. Dowd, God bless you. Because you know what, that may be a beautiful
neighborhood. In fact, I`m sure it is. I`m sure it is peaceful. But you know what? That is just the kind of neighborhood where Carly Brucia was.
Where Samantha Runnion was. Where so many children are. Sex offenders or evil doers don`t care what neighborhood they go into.
Mark Klaas, please help me here. Please help me make the point I`m trying to articulate.
KLAAS: Well, there are three things I`d like to say, Nancy. First of all, Elizabeth Smart lived in probably the safest neighborhood in Salt Lake
City. But that didn`t stop a predator from breaking into her house and stealing her. Secondly, the whole idea that you tell your kids not to talk
to strangers or don`t go anywhere with strangers is a great concept, but it is patently absurd in its application. Because we`ve all seen the videos
of children who are so easily lured away by the promise of candy, by the promise of money or to help somebody go look for their puppy at the same
time that their parents are watching this in aghast on a video monitor.
And thirdly, there is a startling statistic. One-third of all kidnappings occur to children as they are either walking to school or
coming home from school, and the reasons are obvious. One, they establish patterns of travel, so that anybody who had had an interest in them would
be able to know where they are at any given time. And secondly they tend to be unsupervised. And we all know and I think everyone would agree that
there is not a 10-year-old or a 12-year-old child in America that is going to be able to fend off the advances of a very determined predator.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Let`s test your crime IQ. What did serial killer John Wayne Gacy request as his last meal before execution? Tweet or facebook your
answers using #crimeiq. I`ll reveal one of the winners here on the show tomorrow night. All you legal eagles, you got 24 hours. Go.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If we can`t let your children do what we were allowed do, what does that say about our parenting?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Kids need to be given their freedom. They need to learn how to navigate the neighborhood, how to cross the street on their
own.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Carlie Brucia was 11 when she was kidnapped by a stranger while walking past a Sarasota car wash in 2004. Her body was
discovered four days later. 13-year-old Ben Ownby was abducted in 2007 while coming home from school in rural Missouri. Thankfully, he was found
alive four days later. Jessica Lunsford, 9, was snatched from her Florida home by a neighbor in 2005. Briefly held captive, she was raped, murdered
and buried in a shallow grave. Etan Pates (ph) was only 6 when he disappeared in 1979 as he walked two blocks to catch a school bus. 11-
year-old Jacey Dugard was abducted in 1991 outside her California home. She spent the next 18 years in captivity, living in a backyard shack at the
home of her kidnapper and his wife.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Parents now outraged that CPS, Child Protective Services, investigated them and now have a file on them that will last for about five
years. This after they let their free-range children, as they call it, and the woman who created that, author of "Free Range Kids," Lenore Skenazy is
with us.
Let them walk two miles alone. One six years old. One ten. They go through a busy thoroughfare, where there are a lot of shops, a lot of
businesses, red lights. Stop signs. You know what? I believe that a ten- year-old could probably negotiate -- ouch -- stop signs and red lights. I did before I saw that anyway. I`m not as worried about the red lights as I
am about child predators. With me, Lenore Skenazy, author of "Free Range Chickens --"
SKENAZY: Kids.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
SKENAZY: Different species.
GRACE: I know it`s not the same thing. With me Mark Klaas and Matthew Dowd.
Matthew Dowd, CPS, if you are worried about CPS investigating your clients, let me clue you in on what I`ve learned, sadly. And that is, it
seems like every other day, I get a new report of a child dead. And CPS has been called and called and called, and they are overloaded and they
can`t or don`t follow up. And the child ends up dead. If you don`t know a horse, Mr. Dowd, look at their track record. I doubt CPS is going to be
knocking on your client`s door asking for an in-home inspection. I doubt they will ever hear from CPS again. Tell me about your client`s concern.
Because it`s my understanding they were angry about this, but you say your clients are concerned. Why are they concerned?
DOWD: The concern is that our clients have a right to parent as they feel fit. And they intend to do so. And CPS will investigate this in the
future, and there is no reason to to do that. There has been no showing that there`s been any substantial risk of harm to the children. And
honestly, the way this is right now is that our clients are existing in a legal purgatory. They have been accused or found guilty of so-called
unsubstantiated child neglect.
GRACE: They have not been found guilty of anything. Finding someone guilty occurs in a court of law. CPS opened an investigation on them, and
you let your children walking unattended through that downtown scenario we just showed, and do it routinely, and you say you`re going to do it again?
I see why CPS is angry.
DOWD: Nancy, for the benefit of your viewers, I was using the word guilty, but you are right. They were held quote, responsible of
unsubstantiated neglect.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Mark Klaas, look at this. There`s nearly 700 sex offenders within ten miles. You don`t think they are on these streets right there,
where these children are stopping at the stop signs and red lights? Mark?
KLAAS: The problem is, Nancy, only about 20 percent of all sex offenders are actually registered sex offenders. They`re the stupid ones.
They are the ones that are actually caught in the act. Just multiply that out, and you really do put your kids through the gauntlet every time you
send them outside, whether they are supervised or unsupervised.
GRACE: To Lenore Skenazy, author of "Free Range Kids" and host of "World`s Worst Mom," I noticed that you skillfully avoided my first
question to you.
SKENAZY: Let me hear it again.
GRACE: That was, would you let your children or -- let me refine my question. Have you ever let your children together or separate walk two
miles in a busy thoroughfare, red lights, stop signs, lots of traffic, alone?
SKENAZY: I don`t think I avoided that question. But I`m sorry if I did. I think I came to national prominence for letting my 9-year-old ride
the subway alone. That was back in 2008. And subsequently, I let both my children, yes, walk by themselves, the way my mom let me, because she was
not using Google in her brain the way we do it now. Nowadays, the names of the children, the tragic stories that you have just played before us twice,
come to the top of our minds when we ask, gee, I wonder if my kid can walk outside safely. Can my child wait at the bus stop safely? Because we have
those particular stories popping up at the top of our brain`s Google search, we think they`re the most relevant. We think the Jayce Dugard
story, the Elizabeth Smart story is most likely to happen, when actually it`s the least likely to happen. But we cannot call up to our brains the
tens of millions of children who walk to school safely every day.
Fortunately, my mom did not have to Google all these names that have been brought to prominence -- to a certain extent by your show -- before
she let me have my very happy childhood. Most of us when we think back on our childhoods, think back with joy to the walks we took on our own, to
walking to school, to playing in the forest, to making a fort. I don`t think we should deny that to our own children.
GRACE: Before we run out of time during your lovely monologue -- and I`m glad to hear about your happy childhood, I also had a happy childhood.
But I want to go to Stacey Newman. Stacey, the thoroughfare there in Montgomery County, it`s highly populated. Silver Spring has the highest
crime rate in the county.
NEWMAN: That`s right. There`s some parts here, Nancy, that have eight lanes of traffic. Let`s remember, the state law says a child under
eight should not be in the care of a child who is under the age of 13. And that`s what we have in this case.
GRACE: It`s a violation --
SKENAZY: You are not allowed to be --
GRACE: She`s saying in a structure. You are right, Stacey. It says in a structure.
Mark, we heard Lenore Skenazy talking about the least likely scenario and the most likely scenario. But you know what, when you ask a crime
victim like you, whose daughter was stolen out of her room and murdered or me, a crime victim, a tangential victim of murder, we don`t see it that
way.
KLAAS: Of course we don`t see it that way. If you extrapolate that out, I think the statistics are that one out every six girls will be
sexually abused at some point in their life. I`m sorry, one out of every four girls and one out of every six boys. So why make the problem even
worse by allowing them to be unsupervised in the open public in a high crime area?
GRACE: What about that statistic, which is true? One out of four girls are sexually abused.
SKENAZY: When we look at --
GRACE: Why would you want them out walking around like this? Two miles?
SKENAZY: First of all, perhaps they are safer outside. Statistics also show that the vast majority of crimes against kids -- I think you know
this, too. It`s a really sad fact. Are committed by people they know, close personal friends, family members, step parents. So the idea that the
outside is dangerous and we can`t let our children out without a security detail turns out to be completely at odds with the actual facts of how
children get molested.
GRACE: I`m not so worried about nature, Lenore. I`m more worried about what goes on in the inside of a perpetrator`s car when they snatch a
kid.
Let`s remember American hero, Marine Lance Corporal Jeremy West, 20. Iguana (ph), California. Purple Heart, National Defense Service Medal,
from a family of military vets. Loved fishing and football. Parents, Lisa and Dave. Stepfather, Ron. Brother AJ. Sisters Kelly and Brandy. Jeremy
West, American hero.
I will see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
