Return to Transcripts main page
Nancy Grace
Durst Linked to Another Murder. Aired 8:00-9p ET
Aired March 19, 2015 - 20:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Multi-millionaire Robert Durst, born with a silver spoon in his mouth, walks free after he shoots and
dismembers his neighbor. His wife, Kathie, also disappears. That`s unsolved.
HBO airs docu-series "The Jinx" about Durst and his shenanigans, Durst arrested finally as the prime suspect in the murder of long-time friend
Susan Berman. Many believe Berman helped Durst dispose of his wife`s body. FBI raids his luxury apartment in Houston.
Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, we learn the Durst murder investigation now goes national, expanding to multiple cities to
investigate even more dead bodies. And was Durst set to flee to Cuba just before he`s busted in that New Orleans hotel? He had thousands in cash, a
latex mask, a fake ID. He was withdrawing nearly $10,000 a day for 35 days straight.
Tonight, we uncover connections between Durst and the murder of a Eureka teen, Karen Mitchell. As we go into the murder scene of Durst`s best
friend and alleged accomplice in getting rid of his wife`s body, Susan Berman -- she was found dead in her California home the night before she`s
set to talk to police. What a coincidence! And did Durst lie about his own mother`s suicide?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Young wife Kathie disappears. Susan Berman murdered execution-style, murder of his neighbor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, oh, oh. I was reviewing it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I hear what you`re saying.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That video from HBO`s "The Jinx."
And tonight, live, Longmont (ph), a 34-year-old mother of two accused of luring a 7-months pregnant 26-year-old mom to be to her home with a baby
clothing ad, then attacking her, slashing her tummy, cutting out the fetus. We dig deep tonight to learn the alleged perp, 34-year-old Dinel (ph)
Lane`s own baby boy, just 19 months old, drowns in a back yard pond. Was she willing do anything to replace her drowned son, even commit murder?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: OK, who cut you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was a girl. I was replying to a Craigslist ad.
911 OPERATOR: What did she cut you with?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A knife. I`m pregnant. She cut me in my stomach.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, we learn the Robert Durst murder investigation goes national. It`s expanding to multiple cities where cops
are investigating even more dead bodies.
And was Durst set to run to Cuba just before he`s busted in that New Orleans hotel? He had thousands of dollars of cash on him, a latex mask, a
fake ID. You know, we find out he had been withdrawing nearly $10,000 cash every day, 35 days straight. That`s nearly a half a million dollars.
Tonight, we uncover connections between Durst, the millionaire, and the murder of a Eureka teen. How did he know her? Or did he know her? The
girl`s name is Karen Mitchell.
And tonight, we go into the murder scene of Durst`s best friend, long-time best friend. And many believe this friend, Susan Berman, was his
accomplice in disposing of Durst wife, Kathie`s, body. That friend Susan - - she`s found dead execution-style in her California home.
And listen to this. She`s found dead the night before she is set to talk to police. And we retrace Durst`s tracks, and we can place him in
California the day a letter is posted to police telling them to go look to find her body.
And did Durst lie even about his own mother`s suicide? If he`ll do that, what else will he lie about?
Straight out to Jean Casarez, CNN correspondent. Jean, I don`t even know where to start, so much is happening so quickly in Durst. And Jean, we
have evidence that we believe Durst may have even had plastic surgery to alter his looks.
I mean, Jean, have you see the before and after? Show her, Liz. Show Jean the before and after of Durst.
[20:05:04]Tonight, joining us is a plastic surgeon, a renowned plastic surgeon to take look at the before and after and see what Durst has done to
himself.
But Jean, let me start with you. Let`s talk about connections between Durst and this Eureka girl that goes missing. I`m talking about Karen
Mitchell. What are the connections? There are several.
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is the latest right here. And this is part of what the FBI is wanting local law enforcement do. This
young girl, 16-year-old when she went missing in 1997 -- she was on her way to work at a day care. And at least one witness saw her leaning over into
a blue car to talk with someone. It`s not known if she got in that car or not.
But that witness told a forensic sketch artist associated with police what they believe the person looked like in the car, and a sketch was drawn up
of the person after this young girl went missing. And it is that sketch right there that has lasted through all these years. And I know that it`s
been put side by side with Robert Durst, and there is an eerily similar appearance right there.
But along with that, Nancy, the FBI is asking local law enforcement in all of the areas that Robert Durst lived or visited...
GRACE: Look at that, Jean!
CASAREZ: ... to revisit their cold cases.
GRACE: Jane, look.
CASAREZ: That`s it, Nancy, right there.
GRACE: That`s the composite sketch you were just talking about. You know what? It`s incredible. When you see the composite sketch alone, not so
much. When you look at it compared to Durst -- I mean, really? And we know he was there in the area at the time she goes missing.
CASAREZ: And some would look at that sketch and say many people wear glasses and they`re light skinned and there`s no similarity whatsoever.
But obviously, law enforcement believes there is a similarity because the police chief of Eureka said that they want information on any interview
that Robert Durst may do about knowing this girl, Karen Mitchell.
GRACE: You know, there is another connection. Justin Freiman, in addition to what Jean Casarez has told us, isn`t it true that the girl, Karen
Mitchell`s, aunt owned -- I think it was a shoe store or a clothing boutique. And she, the girl, Karen, would go to the store, her aunt`s
store. And Durst would go in there dressed in drag, dressed like a woman. And I mean, we all know he dressed like a woman at the time he killed
Morris Black, Dorothy Signer (ph).
What about it, Justin?
JUSTIN FREIMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): That`s right, Nancy. Actually, it`s been said that she went to her aunt`s store shortly before
she went missing. And then later, people start to realize that Durst had visited that store reportedly in drag multiple times.
GRACE: Was it a shoe store or a clothing store?
FREIMAN: It was a shoe store in the mall.
GRACE: I mean, come on! Jean Casarez, if Durst is going to continue to dress in drag, he`s got to get his shoes somewhere, right? So he`s getting
ladies` shoes to dress in drag., just like he was posing as Dorothy Signer when he killed Morris Black. And P.S., Dorothy Signer turns out to be the
real name of a girl that went to high school with him. They`re side by side in the high school annual.
So anyway, we know he dresses in drag, Durst known to dress in drag and go in this ladies` shoe store. This girl, Karen Mitchell, would be in the
store.
And not only that, Jean, but isn`t it true that Durst, who`s a multi-multi- millionaire -- I`m talking about $100 million, that we know of -- would go in and out of homeless shelters instead of paying for a hotel room? This
girl volunteered at the homeless shelter where Durst was at.
CASAREZ: Now, that is what the author of a book has said due (ph) to all of his research. We haven`t heard that law enforcement said that, but
that`s exactly what they`re going to be looking for. And are there any forensics? Because this young girl just disappeared. She`s not someone
that they found a body that they can match forensics on. So this may be very challenging.
GRACE: Just like Kathie Durst. You know, you mentioned the author of that book. He`s with us right now, Jean. Don`t move, Jean.
Matt Birkbeck, author of "A Deadly Secret," is with us. Matt, so great to have you with us. What are the connections between Durst, who we all know
killed Morris Black, suspected in killing his wife, Kathie, and his friend, Susan Berman -- what are his connections, Matt Birkbeck, to the missing
teen in Eureka?
MATT BIRKBECK, AUTHOR, "A DEADLY SECRET" (via telephone): I reported this in my book back in 2003. We know that he frequented a homeless shelter
where she volunteered at. We know he went to the shoe store, as you mentioned, several times. And of course, there`s that composite, which
actually was given by someone that knew Durst.
So this evidence has been hanging there, the circumstantial evidence has been hanging there for years. The case went dormant. Unfortunately, the
local detective there was set on another suspect.
GRACE: Everyone, with me, Jean Casarez, and author of "A Deadly Secret" Matt Birkbeck.
[20:10:03]Matt, what about his propensity to dress in drag? When he was in Eureka at that time, wasn`t he dressing in drag and potentially buying his
clothes at the shoe store?
BIRKBECK: You know, I`ll be honest with you. I knew he was at the store. It was only recently when the manager of the store had said that he had
dressed in drag there. So that`s actually a new development.
But what`s interesting is that Durst had lived (INAUDIBLE) before the three cases even happened -- you know, Kathie (INAUDIBLE) The new investigation
had started in 2000 into the disappearance of Kathie Durst.
GRACE: Right.
BIRKBECK: Durst had been living this bizarre life (INAUDIBLE) the 1990s, going from city to city, stealing identities, living amongst the transients
and the homeless. And don`t forge that when he turned up in Galveston and killed Morris Black, that police there said he knew how to chop up a body.
GRACE: To Jean Casarez, CNN correspondent. There is so much evidence that he was actually planning to flee to Cuba when he`s finally busted in the
murder of Susan Berman.
But before I get to his potential flight to Cuba, I want to talk about Susan Berman. Now, we know Susan Berman`s father was in the Mob, and many
people believe that she may know about or have even helped him dispose of Kathie, his wife`s, body.
Just when she was killed, Jean, wasn`t she set to talk to police about Kathie`s disappearance?
CASAREZ: Yes. Either a very odd coincidence or something that prosecutors will use as exhibit A. New York investigators were just about to question
her on the disappearance of Kathie Durst because they had reopened that investigation...
GRACE: Look at this, Jean.
CASAREZ: ... in the year 2000.
GRACE: Look. We`re showing Susan Berman`s home that she had. This is from HBO`s "The Jinx." Now, keep looking. Keep looking. That`s her
father that was in the Mob. She adored him. She even had his mugshot framed in her living room. She was a very love, loyal and generous woman.
She was helping raise two children who chose to live with her. This is her cottage. Take a look. This is Susan Berman`s home, found dead the night
before she`s set to talk to police about Durst`s wife`s murder.
There`s the crime scene. That was Berman`s foot on the floor. There`s her body through that doorway. She`s killed in her own home. And Jean, we can
place Durst in the vicinity in California at the time. Take a listen, Jean.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did you react when you heard about Susan`s murder?
ROBERT DURST, SUSPECTED OF MURDER: I felt terrible for Susan. I was astonished that they were putting all this together that I did it or I
caused it to be done.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you have anything to do with Susan Berman`s death?
DURST: I had nothing to do with Susan Berman`s death.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you have any theory yourself of what might have happened to Susan?
DURST: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does it make sense to you that there were people that suspected you of having...
DURST: Oh, sure, I mean, because she was my spokesman. All of a sudden, she`s dead.
I had nothing to do with what caused her or what happened to her disappearance, either (ph) disappearance.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you have any thought about where she is, about where her body might be?
DURST: I have no idea. I wouldn`t know how to begin.
I don`t know that she`s dead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think that it`s possible that she`s alive now?
DURST: It`s possible. Not likely. It`s not what I think. I think she`s almost definitely dead, but I don`t know that she`s dead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You`re seeing a phenomenal HBO docu-series, "The Jinx," about Durst.
Now, Jean Casarez, CNN correspondent, the reason we played those two together is because Susan Berman, his long-time friend, very loyal friend,
is inextricably linked to the murder of his wife, Kathie Durst. Now, a lot of people will say it`s a missing person. You know what? Can we just be
honest? Kathie`s dead. She`s dead, all right?
CASAREZ: She was declared dead.
GRACE: Yes. She never made it back into the city from her weekend visit with him. He admits that he physically abused her and forced her to have
an abortion. She`s a fourth-year medical student. And then some fakery called in to the dean of the med school to report she wouldn`t be in
classes the next day.
She`s dead, all right? She`s set to talk to police the next day, she`s killed. Now, what, if you can explain -- what puts Durst in California at
the time Susan Berman is killed?
CASAREZ: I can`t tell you why, but he was documented to be in San Francisco. That`s a long ways away from Los Angeles, and there is no
documentation taking him into the southern California. That`s a challenge.
GRACE: Well, the thing is, the cadaver letter that`s sent in his handwriting to police -- that cadaver letter tips police off to go to Susan
Berman`s home, all right? That letter was postmarked -- only the killer would know that information -- is postmarked from California at the time
she`s found dead. He`s in California, mailing this letter.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:20:05]GRACE: Not only do we believe that Durst may have been set to flee to Cuba just as he`s arrested for the murder of Susan Berman, is it
true that Durst lies about his own mother`s suicide to make himself look better? Look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DURST: My father came and got me. And he said, I`d like -- come on over here. I want you to see Mommy. And we looked out a hall window out onto
the roof, and there was Mommy. And I waved at Mommy. I don`t know that she saw me. It never went through my mind that, What is she doing out on
the roof in her nightie? I mean, it just didn`t focus on me. There`s Mommy, wave at Mommy, OK, now go on back to bed.
All of a sudden, I heard the maid shouting, She`s off the roof. It was a long, long fall.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s from HBO`s "The Jinx." And it goes on to explain how Durst said that he watched his mom get picked up off the ground and put into the
balance and taken away as a young boy at 7, somehow explaining away his own behavior, making others sympathetic for him.
Not so, says Durst`s own brother in a letter that he sends, claiming that on the night the mom died, Durst was not brought to the window by father
Seymour or asked to wave at the mother, that the three siblings and the brother were whisked out of the home to the neighbors` for the duration of
the tragedy. He goes on to claim that his own brother, Durst, is recreating history for his own benefit.
So is Matt Birkbeck with me, author of "A Deadly Secret"? With him also, Jim McCormack, brother of Kathie Durst.
Jim McCormack, is it possible? Well, it is possible because his own brother says he even lied about his own mother`s suicide to somehow make
himself look more sympathetic?
JIM MCCORMACK, KATHIE DURST`S BROTHER: I believe that`s absolutely possible. As I`ve said before, Bob is fairly intelligent, if not very
intelligent. But yet he`s criminally cunning. He will do whatever it takes to survive in his little demented world of crime, self-serving things
that he does all the time, never accountable, never held responsible for anything. He`s gotten away with virtually everything, and he`s been
enabled to some degree by his family resources...
GRACE: By his money.
MCCORMACK: Oh, yes.
GRACE: By his money, $100 million. You know, Kathie`s family was no match for a billionaire.
MCCORMACK: Absolutely not. But Nancy, it`s not just money. It`s the political power and the influence -- guarantee you that Seymour Durst could
pick up a phone during that time when Kathie went missing and literally call up Mayor Koch, and Mayor Koch would answer the phone.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:27:58]GRACE: With us tonight live is Kathie Durst`s brother, speaking out about multi-millionaire Robert Durst.
To Dr. Barry Weintraub (ph), joining me out of New York, plastic surgeon. Is it possible, do you believe after studying the photos, he`s tried to
alter his appearance through plastic surgery? And if so, how?
DR. BARRY WEINTRAUB, PLASTIC SURGEON (via telephone): There`s an enormous amount of excess upper eyelid skin, as well as lower eyelid skin, in those
original pictures. As the man got older, and I now look at more recent photos that have come to my office, it may very well be that his upper
eyelids were operated upon. The lower eyelids I would be highly suspect that were. There`s tethering of the lower eyelid skin, which I would
rather not see in quality facial surgery.
There is the possibility of a facelift with the mid-face being suspended, the jawline sharpened and the neck suspended. It`s possible that he had
either fat injection into his malar prominences or his cheekbone area.
GRACE: Wow. That is extensive surgery, Dr. Weintraub.
With me is the brother of Kathie Durst, Jim McCormack. Jim, when you learned that Durst is finally arrested for the murder of Susan Berman, what
was your response?
MCCORMACK: It was the culmination of a long journey. I was actually happy. My faith and hope has been renewed and buoyed by the circumstances
that -- because the FBI called me literally that morning to give me a heads-up. I`ve been supporting them forever, it seems like, but on a need
to know basis because I do not want to corrupt any information...
GRACE: Right.
MCCORMACK: ... or inference (ph) that they`re putting together.
GRACE: Why do you...
MCCORMACK: And you know what that means, Nancy.
GRACE: ... believe that he killed your sister, Kathie? What is the evidence in your mind that he is responsible for her death?
MCCORMACK: I think that the main reason why he killed my sister Kathie is he couldn`t bear to lose control of the one person, the one thing he ever
had control over in his life.
[20:30:00] JIM MCCORMACK, KATHIE DURST`S BROTHER: Sister Kathie as he couldn`t bear to lose control of the one person and one thing he ever had
control over in his life. He doesn`t even have that much control over himself, although he tends to make these lists so he`s defining what his
next actions will be and how he`s going to approach. But Kathie had grown up and grown past him. She was going to be a doctor in three months.
She was going to be self-sufficient, self-reliant. Economically capable of taking care of herself. She didn`t want to take out of the Durst, you
know, legacy, a lot of money. She just wanted to get on with her life because it was a life being denied by Bob.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Was she planning a divorce?
MCCORMACK: She had already initiated a -- I call it a divorce counseling. I`ve been privy to the diary notes, if you want to call them diary notes,
that she had given to her divorce counselor. About eight pages. These things. It`s sad to see the original love that existed between the two of
them. The happiness of going up to Vermont and operating this health food store, and then have it -- you know, go into the depths of this
relationship of basically abuse.
GRACE: Jim, who do you think called the dean of the med school to say she wouldn`t be there the day she disappeared?
MCCORMACK: I believe it was Susan Berman. She literally would have done anything to help Bob in times of trouble whatever those troubles may be,
and she was like, you know, dedicated to him.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:35:32] GRACE: Live Longmont, a 34-year-old mother of two accused of luring a seven months pregnant, 26-year-old mom-to-be to her home with a
baby clothing ad. She`s accused of then attacking her, slashing her tummy and cutting out the fetus.
We dig deep tonight to learn the alleged perp, 34-year-old Dynel Lane `s own baby boy, just 19 months old, drowns in a backyard pond.
Was she willing to do anything to replace her drowned son, even commit murder?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Don`t you go to sleep, OK? You stay on the phone with me. Can you tell me, did she have any other weapons besides a
knife?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two broken glasses.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: She broke a glass?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Did she stab you with the broken glass also?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK. You need to think real hard and tell me who it is that did this. Tell me the person`s name.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I --
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Think real hard, OK? Don`t go to sleep. Stay with me. Tell me who it is.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t know --
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: You don`t know? Did she break into the house? Does she live there?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, it`s her house.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: It`s her house. OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I responded to a Craigslist ad.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Just hearing her voice, you`ve got to understand the context of this. This mom-to-be is seven months pregnant. She goes to buy baby
clothes. And she attacked allegedly by this woman, Dynel Lane.
Now keep in mind, Lane`s baby boy just 19 months old dies, drowns in a backyard pond. Was she willing to do anything even commit murder to have a
baby?
So when the victim, the mom-to-be, shows up at the home. She`s attacked. Her stomach is cut open and the baby is yanked out of her stomach. This
has all just happened. The baby is dead. The baby is dead. You just heard the 911 call. Here is the rest.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: 911. Address of your emergency? OK. Tell me what happened?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She cut me.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Who cut you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Downstairs. I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK. Hold on.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I responded to --
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Hang on.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A Craigslist ad.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Hold on.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please, I`m downstairs.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK. Who cut you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s a girl, I responded to a Craigslist ad. She cut me.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: What did she cut you with?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A knife. I`m pregnant. She cut me in my stomach.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m afraid.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: She cut you in your stomach?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Uh-huh. I`m pregnant.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please help me.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: What is the suspect`s name?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t remember.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK. When police get there, they find the mom-to-be lying in the basement floor in a pool of blood. They find a knife on the floor. They
find bloody towels in the washer washing. The baby dies.
To Randy Corcoran, talk show host, KLZ. Randy, what happened?
RANDY CORCORAN, TALK SHOW HOST, KLZ: That 911 call is just chilling. This woman responded to an ad for baby clothes she saw on Craigslist and was
brought into this house where she was ambushed and beaten and stabbed and the baby cut from her womb.
GRACE: Guys, all the photos I`m showing you are of the alleged perp. The one whose 19 month old son allegedly drown in the pool. I`m showing you
Dynel Catrice Lane. Her. We`re not showing the mom`s photo.
Go ahead, Randy.
CORCORAN: Well, you heard the 911. That`s what saved the mother. Coincidentally the mother was brought to the hospital in Longmont at about
the same time this alleged perpetrator showed up with a dead baby claiming a miscarriage.
[20:40:06]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Yesterday we asked you to guess which body part of Robert Durst`s dismembered neighbor has never been found. You sent answers using
#crimeiq. Answer, Morris Black`s head.
Congratulations, Texas Facebook friend Janet. You got it right.
[20:45:03] Hopefully we`ll stump you guys next time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please, help. I`m bleeding out.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: I know, you need to stay on the phone with me. OK. I`m getting everybody to you. OK?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m bleeding.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: I know. You stay with me, OK. I got everybody coming to help you. You stay on the phone. Don`t hang up.
Can you grab a towel or anything you can get in your hands and put it on your wound and press. How far along are you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Seven months.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Seven months? OK. Are you alone in the house?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: You stay with me. Don`t go to sleep. You stay with me. You`re downstairs in the basement? And are you alone?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I locked the door.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: When you know the context of this 911 call, I`m not showing the mother`s photo. This is the alleged perpetrator Dynel Lane right there.
The mother is a 27-year-old mom-to-be and she was trying to save money and she answered an ad for baby clothes, used baby clothes. And she gets
there, and according to police, this woman attacks her and cuts her stomach and takes the baby. And this woman is lying in a pool of blood on the
basement floor trying to call 911. She doesn`t know her baby is dead now. Doesn`t even realize what has happened to her and that her baby is dead.
Unleash the lawyers, April Porter, defense lawyer, Patrick McDonough, defense lawyer, Atlanta.
All right. Let`s hear it. April, what`s your defense?
APRIL PORTER, DEFENSE LAWYER: Well, Nancy, the first defense strategy would be to determine, was she alone? Was the alleged defendant alone at
the time of the crime?
GRACE: Why? What difference does it make?
PORTER: Well, it makes a difference as to who actually did this. She is not the alleged defendant in the crime. But she may not have acted alone.
So you want to see who actually committed the --
GRACE: So she didn`t alone, April Porter, she`s still part of the conspiracy.
PORTER: Well, absolutely, but part of the defense will be who actually committed act.
Also, Nancy, in this particular state they have charged her with child abuse and this particular state doesn`t recognize that a seven-month-old
fetus is a person or a child under the Penal Code.
GRACE: I`ve got a little surprise for you. I`ve got a surprise for both of yo. We`ve just gotten an update.
Matt Zarrell, you break it to the defense lawyers.
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yes, apparently a witness who arrived at the home to take Lane, the suspect, to prenatal visit found the baby
upstairs in the bathtub and said the baby made a gasping breath while inside the bathtub.
GRACE: OK. So, Patrick McDonough, while this jurisdiction does not recognize murder on a fetus, now we have a witness who says the baby took a
gasping breath before it died which means, Patrick, it was viable and alive and it was killed purportedly because of this mom`s insatiable desire to
have a baby.
PATRICK MCDONOUGH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, we don`t know that, right? I mean the first thing, I think as April said, you have to find out, was
there someone else there? And did someone else commit this act? Where was this lady --
GRACE: I already heard that. Yes.
MCDONOUGH: OK. So we don`t -- we don`t know if she was the one that -- it wasn`t necessarily part of the crime. She might not be --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Did you hear that 911 call?
MCDONOUGH: It was --
GRACE: That I was -- that she said she cut me?
MCDONOUGH: Sure. Right. So was there another woman there? I mean, you got to get to the basics first.
GRACE: All right.
MCDONOUGH: Second, there is a lot easier ways to have a baby certainly than to do something this horrific. Right?
GRACE: Well, I know that.
MCDONOUGH: And it could this woman give birth --
GRACE: And you know that.
MCDONOUGH: Could she adopt the child? I don`t know. What I want to do is get a complete psychological evaluation to see what we`re dealing with if
in fact she is the one that did it.
GRACE: There you go. Now that`s a possibility.
To Dr. Tim Gallagher, forensic pathologist. The witness says that the baby took a breath. The baby breathed.
DR. TIM GALLAGHER, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: The problem with extreme immaturity is the lack of the lungs to be able to absorb oxygen. And so
the baby may have been trying to breathe but whether he was actually oxygenating his body is certainly in question.
GRACE: Well, Dr. Gallagher --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Can`t that be proven in an autopsy if the lungs had ever been exposed to air?
GALLAGHER: It sure can. You can remove the lungs from the body at autopsy and check to see if air is in them. That is a very good method of
checking.
GRACE: Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and author of "Dealbreakers." I want to hear your take on this woman who already has children who
allegedly lures the mom-to-be to her home, attacks her and cuts the baby out, leaves the mom to die in a pool of blood.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": So horrific. You know, sadly, Nancy, women who steal fetuses actually share a certain
psychology. Usually what you see is a woman who`s either lost a baby or never been able to conceive. They tell an elaborate story to friends and
neighbors that they are pregnant. But when it comes time to give birth, obviously, there is no baby. So they have to snatch or steal one to prove
the story to be true.
[20:50:12] GRACE: Right now, CNN Heroes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right, Chelsea.
CHELSEA ELLIOTT, CNN HERO: I was a very active child. Anything I could see I grabbed. I was barely 4 when I lost my vision in my left eye. The
following years, I was so angry. This was an irreversible change.
Twenty-five percent of children ages 5 to 17 have a vision problem. Twenty-five percent. How can you fully embrace all the opportunities
available if you can`t see them?
Keep looking right at the light for me.
Our program provides free vision screenings to all school age children in Maui County.
Well done. Thank you.
We actually use advance technology which allows us to test in seconds. Now if this device has been around when I was 4 years old, it could have saved
my vision. After the screening, we deliver referral reports to the school health aide and for low income families we provide access to an eye care
professional and financial assistance to cover the cost of corrective wear.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My daughter loves books. We never thought something was wrong so when I got the letter, we were caught off guard.
ELLIOTT: Hi.
Riley reminded me a lot of myself. We both turned out to have pretty severe conditions.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Riley is only 4 years old. And because they caught it early, we can help her.
ELLIOTT: Just seeing her even today with glasses knowing that her vision is going to be completely fine because we caught it, that`s what we do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:56:21] GRACE: The seven-month-pregnant mom left for dead on the basement floor on a pool of -- bloody towels washing in the washer. All
because, according to police, this woman, Dynel Lane, wants a baby. Her child drowned in a backyard pond at just 19 months old.
Was she willing to kill for a new baby?
To Matt Zarrell, as we`re going to air, we`re learning this mom was just granted a $2 million bond. I`m talking about Dynel Catrice Lane, has just
appeared in court on charges she attacked the mom-to-be and cut out her fetus, leaving the pregnant mother for dead on the basement floor. The
baby dies.
Matt Zarrell, as a matter of fact, when Dynel Lane allegedly realizes the fetus is dead, she goes to the hospital claiming she had a miscarriage, the
same hospital where the real mother is rushed.
ZARRELL: Yes, you`re right, Nancy. And police figured it out very, very quickly. Another thing I wanted to point out is there`s a lot of evidence
that suggests that Lane was either pregnant or wanted people to believe she was pregnant within the last six months. The baby`s grandfather claims
Lane was pregnant, heard she had a baby girl within the last few months.
We also found numerous online profiles from Dynel Lane --
GRACE: I saw that.
ZARRELL: -- claiming she was due to give birth in November of 2014. We found a baby registry for Target with the same due date and the same name -
-
GRACE: Well, hey, Matt, look, we`re showing what she had, some of the items she had on her Target baby registry. When I looked at it just before
the show, Matt, all of the stuff she wanted was -- for a baby boy. Take a look.
ZARRELL: Also there are witnesses who lives with Lane that told cops that Lane had showed them an ultrasound photo back in December and claimed she
was pregnant. So the due date says November for the Web site but she told other people in December that she was still pregnant.
GRACE: So, April Porter and Patrick McDonough, if Dr. Tim Gallagher and I are right and this autopsy which is set to go down the next 24 hours on the
baby, shows that baby took a breath, Patrick, that means the baby was alive. And this is in Colorado. She could be looking at the death
penalty.
MCDONOUGH: It`s possible. I don`t think it`s a death penalty case. A lot of things she did --
GRACE: Why?
MCDONOUGH: Don`t make a lot of sense. I mean, if this is someone who has got two children already, she lost a child, for her to commit this kind of
atrocious crime and then take the baby to the hospital and not do anything to cover up the crime scene, it just doesn`t seem like someone who`s
thinking mentally correct.
GRACE: Well, Patrick, don`t you think the doctors, when she claims she had a miscarriage, would do an exam on her? I mean, I don`t know -- if you
know about this, but when you go to the hospital with a miscarriage claim, they do a pelvic. They`re going to find out she was never pregnant and she
didn`t just have a miscarriage and put two and two together. I mean, the forensics --
MCDONOUGH: That proves my point. Exactly. That proves my point. This is a person who needs a psychological evaluation.
GRACE: Well --
MCDONOUGH: I mean, clearly, this is somebody --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: You say tomato, I say tomato. I say she needs a jail cell.
Let`s remember, American hero, Army Specialist Nathaniel Aguirre, 21, Charleston, Texas. Bronze Star, Purple Heart, quit studies at Texas A&M on
hold to enlist. Loved rock climbing, growing up as a Boy Scout. Designated the group as a live insurance beneficiary to the Boy Scout.
Parents Mary and Louis, sister Melissa.
Nathaniel Aguirre. American hero.
Drew up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
