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Nancy Grace
Two Wives, Two Fatal Accidents?; Young Mom Killed; Fake Psychic Bilks Millions; Alleged "Selfie" Robbers Busted. Aired 8-9p
Aired April 02, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news Tonight, live, Colorado. He takes his wife on a romantic hiking trip for their 12th anniversary, but wife Toni
slips while taking a photo, falling to her death. Husband and a 7-year-old little girl in deep grief until authorities ask, Hey, didn`t your first
wife die in an accident, too? Turns out wife number one crushed to death by the family car as hubby takes her on a romantic drive, asks her to look
under the car for a lugnut when they get a flat tire. Hiking trips, lugnuts -- coincidence or double murder?
Bombshell tonight. Did Henthorn plan to kill his sister-in-law for money? You don`t think so? Well, he took out a quarter-million-dollar life
insurance policy on her!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her death was first thought to be an accident.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Anniversary hike in Rocky Mountain National Park, he said she slipped and fell 50 feet to her death while taking a picture. Now
investigators say Toni Henthorn was murdered by her husband.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you push your wife?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live, Fort Lauderdale. A popular psychic bilks celebrities and regular folks out of $17 million, claiming she can contact their loved ones
who pass away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Following an investigation nicknamed Operation Crystal Ball, authorities arrested Rose Marks (ph), a woman they believe is the
matriarch of a family of psychics who actually engaged in fraud, promising to remove curses in exchange for money.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And Houston suburbs. After they allegedly steal a man`s iPad, they head straight to Burger King, where they post videos of themselves bragging
about the heist. The alleged iPad selfie robbers busted!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No fives, no tens.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is he hostile?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say Thompson (ph) and Dorian (ph) Walker stole $5,000 in cash and an iPad from a truck, 17 selfies taken from his stolen
iPad as the two celebrated at Burger King.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live, Reno suburbs. Cops say a 37-year-old woman lures young mom, 30-year-old Natalia Roberts (ph), shoots Mommy dead execution-style in
the back of the head to steal her two babies, passing them off as her own.
Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight, live to Colorado. He takes his wife on a romantic hiking trip for their 12th anniversary. Wife Toni slips while taking a
photo, falling to her death, the husband and their 9-year-old little girl in deep grief until authorities ask, Hey, didn`t your first wife die in an
accident, too?
Turns out wife number one crushed dead by the family car as the husband takes her on a romantic drive. Then he asks her to look under the car for
a lugnut when they get a flat tire.
Hiking, lugnuts -- coincidence or double murder? Tonight, did Henthorn plan to kill his sister-in-law for money? You don`t think so? Well, then
why did he take out a quarter-million-dollar life insurance policy on his sister-in-law?
Straight out to Randy Corporon, talk show host, KLZ 560. Randy, thanks for being with us. Tell me about this life insurance policy, first of all.
RANDY CORPORON, TALK SHOW HOST, KLZ 560 (via telephone): Well, if we`re talking about the life insurance policy for the most recently deceased
wife, there are three of them, $1.5 million apiece.
GRACE: I`m talking about the sister-in-law.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Hold on! Let me -- wa-wait! Let me make a flow chart here, Randy. So between the two dead wives, he`s got $1.5 million in life insurance.
Did this guy ever work a day? I mean, what did he do for a living?
CORPORON: Well, he claimed to be some kind of a geologist. Work records show he worked a little bit in 1993, `99 and 2000.
The sister-in-law`s insurance policy is amazing. It was supposed to protect the sister-in-law`s brother and her four daughters for a total of
$250,000. But Henthorn made it out with himself as the beneficiary, continued to make payments on it even after the sister-in-law said, Hey, I
don`t want this anymore.
GRACE: OK, let me understand this. Randy Corporon joining me, talk show host, KLZ. Randy, so Henthorn takes out a life insurance policy that was
meant for the sister-in-law`s family, but he writes himself as the beneficiary, and he, Henthorn, continues to make payments on it?
[20:05:06]CORPORON: He sure did. It took the insurance company itself to determine that Henthorn had no interest in this particular person to get
that policy canceled.
GRACE: OK, another thing I want to clear up. But first, unleash the lawyers. Joining me, Peter Odom, defense attorney out of Washington, D.C.,
out of New York, defense attorney Heather Hansen. OK, Peter Odom...
ODOM: Yes.
GRACE: ... to you. Now -- now this -- this is a yes/no answer, Peter.
ODOM: Oh, you`re going to -- you`re going to...
(CROSSTALK)
ODOM: You`re going to make me give you a yes -- I`m not being cross- examined now?
GRACE: Yes, as a matter of fact, you are.
ODOM: Great.
GRACE: Do you know a single person...
ODOM: Cross-examine.
GRACE: ... a single person -- a single person that takes out a quarter- million-dollar life insurance policy on their sister-in-law?
ODOM: Nancy, this guy has the best defense going...
GRACE: That`s not a yet or no. So I`m going take that...
ODOM: Reasonable doubt.
GRACE: ... as a no.
ODOM: Reasonable doubt.
GRACE: OK. What about you, Heather?
ODOM: Reasonable doubt.
GRACE: Do you know one person that takes out a quarter-million-dollar policy on their sister-in-law?
HEATHER HANSEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Not in my experience, Nancy. But I guess you can imagine if there`s somebody who has a great deal of practice
taking out these types of policies, perhaps that`s a person you`d go to, to take out one for your wife or your husband.
GRACE: Yes, but not for your sister-in-law. He took it out -- he basically takes it out himself and makes the payments. So you know what,
Randy Corporon? I think his sister-in-law ought to be down on her knees thanking God she`s still alive.
Randy, let`s go through how the first wife dies looking for a lugnut.
CORPORON: So they`re on this romantic evening dinner. These wives always seem to die when there`s romance involved. And...
GRACE: Yes, you know what? My husband asked me a while back what I wanted to do when it was Valentine`s Day. And I said nothing. I will stay home
with the children. I`ll cook supper, and you sit on the sofa, all right? No romance, no hiking trips, no lugnuts.
OK, go ahead.
CORPORON: It`s just too dangerous to be in love. So the claim is that there`s a flat tire. They pull over, go to change the tire. He claims
that he was doing the work, but then a lugnut went under the car. And his wife, in a very nice sweater, crawled under the car to get a lugnut.
Supposedly then, the jack failed. But interestingly enough, police officers found a partial footprint on the Jeep`s rear fender that certainly
creates the possibility...
GRACE: Wait. They find a footprint on the Jeep`s rear fender. Did you just say that?
CORPORON: Yes.
GRACE: OK. And she crawls under the car, according to Henthorn, to get a lugnut in a nice sweater? I heard you throw that backhand (ph). She`s
wearing a nice sweater. And is this after the romantic dinner?
CORPORON: This is on the way back down the mountain. The dinner was supposed to be ahead (ph) at 7:00 o`clock.
GRACE: OK, so they go up the mountain. I didn`t realize the mountain was included in the first wife`s death. That`s when they have a flat tire.
She goes under the car looking for a lugnut in her nice sweater. Now, you`re telling me this was before dinner, right?
CORPORON: Before dinner.
GRACE: So she`s going to get under a car in a nice sweater before she goes out to dinner. OK. And then we find the foot mark on the fender of the
Jeep, the back fender. All right. So she dies from the weight of the Jeep on her body?
CORPORON: Yes. She`s crushed.
GRACE: OK, Randy Corporon, talk show host, KLZ, tell me about wife number two.
CORPORON: So wife number two has had knee surgery, doesn`t like do much more than easy walking. Husband plans a romantic hike up and around some
very treacherous mountains in Rocky Mountain National Park.
And after some supposed detours to try and get back to a specific point by a specific time, they stop. The wife is supposedly taking pictures, slips,
falls about 140 feet to her death. Then later, investigators find a map inside Henthorn`s car that has X marking the spot where this fall occurred.
GRACE: OK, I`m trying to soak that in. Hold on, Randy. I`m being joined right now by a very dear friend of the Toni Henthorn`s. This is Allison
Talley. Allison, thank you for being with us.
ALLISON TALLEY, FRIEND OF TONI HENTHORN (via telephone): Thank you.
GRACE: Allison, what did you think when you first learned the investigation was being opened regarding the death of the first wife?
TALLEY: Well, I was completely expecting that because that`s the first reaction that everybody who knew the Henthorns, Harold and Toni, though,
that a death where he`s the only person there, the second wife. It`s happened once before. We all expected it to be reopened and would have
been very surprised and very disappointed if it wouldn`t have been.
GRACE: You know, I know, Allison Talley, that you do not believe Toni`s death was an accident, slipping and falling 140 feet, plunging, doing a
flip off the side of a mountain. Why are you so convinced that Toni`s death was not an accident?
[20:10:14]TALLEY: What convinced me? Is that your question?
GRACE: Yes.
TALLEY: Well, for one, I don`t believe that she would have been set out hiking like that. I`m well aware and always have been of the surgeries
she`s had. She`s somebody who was rather relaxed and not really do anything like that.
And I actually knew about the trip before it happened. He had -- before they went on the trip. He called me and told me about it, and I was a
little surprised then that that`s what he had planned for an anniversary, a 12th year anniversary. Maybe 10 or 20 or 25, but I thought it was kind of
odd that they were doing -- I`m like you. On Valentine`s Day, we`ll stay home, you know, but I don`t -- that kind of caught me off guard.
GRACE: And what do you make, Allison Talley, of the fact that he has been paying the payments on a quarter-million-dollar policy on his sister-in-
law?
TALLEY: OK, so I asked Harold a few months after Toni`s death -- he was here, and we -- we talked, and he knew he was being investigated and he
knew that the -- that Lynn`s case was being reopened.
And I asked him that very question. I said, What is this about the life insurance policy? Why would there be an insurance policy on her? And he
said -- he had a very well rehearsed answer for this. And you`ll hear it again. You`ll hear it in the courtroom, I`m sure -- that it was Toni`s
idea to take out the life insurance policy on Grace (ph).
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:15:44]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To have two wives die of freak accidents...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Suspicion has also formed around the death of his first wife, who died under equally bizarre circumstances.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The odds are better off that you win the Powerball lottery.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here`s a man for 20 years has scammed, lied. He`s definitely not who he wants Joe Q. Public to think he is. It`s an
extremely logical conclusion to come to that he had a hand in my sister`s death. to Have two wives die of freak accidents, he -- your -- the odds
are better off that you win the Powerball lottery.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: After his wife does a flip off the side of a mountain and falls to her death, the death of his first wife is reopened. She died looking for a
lugnut in a fancy sweater underneath her car when they have a flat.
Now we learn he takes out a quarter-million-dollar life insurance policy on his sister-in-law and blames it on the dead wife, Toni Henthorn.
Take a listen to these similarities. Both involved in bizarre accidents, both occurred in remote locations, both wives leave Henthorn significant
insurance benefits, both occurred in these remote locations and both times, Henthorn the lone witnesses -- the lone witness. Both deaths occurred
after about 12 years of marriage.
Now, Henthorn has told wildly varying stories about both deaths, and both women in atypical situations at the time of their death. He quickly
cremated both bodies, despite family objections, and spread both ashes on the same mountain in Colorado.
OK, let that sink in for a moment. But when you hear, Allison Talley, close friend of wife number two, Toni Henthorn -- when you hear the brother
say that he conned everybody for 30 years, what does he mean by that?
TALLEY: He means that -- because we`re part of that group that were conned -- that he`s made up a life and a persona for himself, that -- and he sold
it successfully to everybody he knew, the successful businessman, the wealth from a previous career, all of that.
And just -- none of it is true. And that`s probably the thing I have the most problem with and the thing that`s the most compelling to me for
knowing absolutely that he did this.
GRACE: When actually, his wealth came from insurance policies on his first wife`s death.
There was also, Stacey Newman, also on the story, an incident with Toni Henthorn where they were working together on a home project -- and I
believe we`ve got the search warrant, Liz -- where a beam hits Toni Henthorn in the head? What happened, Stacey?
STACEY NEWMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, they were working on this cabin that they had in Colorado, a vacation home. And he claims he was throwing
this 20-foot wooden beam over a deck, and somehow, it landed on her and hit her in the back of the neck.
GRACE: OK, take a look at this search warrant. When that occurred, a beam hits Toni Henthorn in the head, fracturing her vertebra while she`s working
on a cabin with the husband.
OK, Allison Talley, what do you make of that? Did she totally believe it was an accident?
TALLEY: I didn`t know about that. My husband did. And Harold actually told him about it when we were there at the cabin. We`ve been to that
cabin many times. It`s very small. The deck is not big at all. And I have trouble -- and my husband does, too -- visualizing that even happening
at all because it`s just not big enough.
But he did tell him that -- that a beam fell. It slipped. It was an accident, and it hit her at just -- just a freak time and it was a freak
accident. And he laughed it off, you know, kind of joked it off, about, Oh, I tried to kill my wife. Didn`t you hear about that?
[20:20:01]And it was just really -- at the time -- you know, that was probably two -- a year, two years before she actually died from an
accident.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A report Toni Henthorn fell 40 feet off the north side of Deer (ph) Mountain.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The indictment saying Henthorn deliberately killed his wife.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You know, what you said to me really struck a nerve, the fact that when they looked through his glove compartment, they find this map with an
X marked on it hear where wife two does a flip and falls off the side of the mountain, allegedly taking a photo.
But what did Henthorn say when police asked him about it?
CORPORON: I didn`t see any response to that. The real question is, why didn`t the detectives, the investigators at the time, carefully follow up
on some of these inconsistencies?
GRACE: Well, this guy is really smooth, Caryn Stark, because when police ask him, like Randy Corporon says, he doesn`t say much. He was at a loss
for words, and ultimately tried to say that it was a map from a different trip.
[20:25:00]CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, what`s interesting, he`s so classically -- it seems to me, Nancy, that he is smooth, which is exactly
what you would expect from him, that he doesn`t learn, you know, that he has no fear of getting caught, that he tries perhaps to hit her with the
beam, and then all over again, he doesn`t mind going along and doing this second accident. He`s not afraid that he`s going to get caught. He
doesn`t get rid of the map?
GRACE: Not at all. You know, Allison Talley, you`re telling us he blamed his wife, Toni Henthorn, your friend, that it was all her idea for him to
take out a quarter-million life insurance on sister-in-law. Why? Why was that her idea? What -- why did they want a life insurance policy on Toni`s
sister?
TALLEY: Well, this is what he said. He said that Grace was struggling financially and that she was too proud to ask for help, and she had a lot
of responsibilities. She had children. And he -- and they felt obligated to help out, and that he didn`t really want to, but Toni insisted that he
keep paying the premiums and -- for the policy. Thought it was odd. You know, it does sound -- you know, it`s -- but she`s -- Toni`s not here to --
to -- you know, to...
GRACE: Exactly. Exactly. Well, that doesn`t really make sense to me. I hear what you`re saying.
Stacey Newman, was there any romantic interest in his sister-in-law?
NEWMAN: Well, that was shocking. When we looked through the court documents...
GRACE: IO don`t even want to think about that!
NEWMAN: Well, we looked through these documents, investigators say they have evidence not only was he trying to take out this quarter-million-
dollar life insurance on the sister-in-law, he actually was romantically interested in her.
GRACE: OK, what document could possibly show that, Stacey?
NEWMAN: Well, there are search warrants for her phone, his phone, e-mails they`ve exchanged.
GRACE: Oh!
NEWMAN: Who knows what kind of romantic gestures he made to her. And she said there was no romantic involvement at all. We just spoke to her, and
she plans to testify against him.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:31:14] NANCY GRACE, HOST: Live Ringgold suburbs. 37-year-old woman lures a young mom, 30-year-old Natalia Roberts. Shoots mommy dead
execution style on the back of the head to steal her two babies, passing them off as her own.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Murdered a mother in this home and planned to pretend the victim`s three-week-old baby was hers.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely bizarre. Absolutely bizarre. I cannot believe it happened. This is Crazy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Ninette Sosa with News Radio.
Ninette, this is almost too much to take in. So the allegation is that she lures the young mom. Then shoots her in the back of the head. Takes her
children and passes them off as her own?
NINETTE SOSA, REPORTER, NEWS RADIO 106.7: And she tried to cover up that crime, Nancy, because she wanted to have that -- the woman`s two children.
Claimed them as her own and she covered up the crime. It happened the last September. Catherine Goins, she faces murder charges. Accused of shooting
Natalia Roberts. She`s a mom of three actually. That mom only had two of her children with her. A three-week-old and her other 3-year-old.
GRACE: Ninette Sosa, what was her motivation? Had she been pretending to be pregnant? I mean, tell me the whole story.
SOSA: She had been pretending to be pregnant. And with her latest boyfriend -- she`s had a few -- she had time told him, I`m expecting.
We`re having a baby together. He finds out that is not true and dumps her. And she`s upset and then she comes up with this ruse, according to
detectives, from another woman who had dealt with her, went to a Craigslist ad for free baby clothes and that`s how she got to know Natalia Roberts.
GRACE: How old are the babies, Ninette Sosa, that she passed off as her own?
SOSA: A 3-year-old and a three-week-old. At the time of the incident, after she was accused of shooting Natalia Roberts in the back of the head,
she took the 3-year-old and the three-week-old, put them into her car and she took off. She drove for about three hours south and then her --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: So hold on just a moment. Take a look at these guys. You are seeing shots right now. The allegations are that Natalia Brianne Roberts,
30-year-old, the victim in this case, shot dead. Why? Allegedly so Catherine Goins, 37, could pretend the children were hers.
To Dr. William Morrone, forensic pathologist, medical examiner, toxicologist. What can we learn from the scene where the young mom was
shot in the back of the head.
DR. WILLIAM R. MORRONE, MEDICAL EXAMINER; FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST, TOXICOLOGIST: Everything looks as if this was so premeditated execution
style. And the selection of the wound, to the head, goes through some of the thickest bone. And the most important thing is as a bullet enters into
the back of the head, with the power of the caliber that is used in this crime, the brain turns to Jell-O. It expands inside and then it contracts
and there is absolutely nothing left.
A bullet to the inside of the skull are almost always fatal. When people shoot themselves and they miss in suicide, it`s to the face but the bullet
never enters inside the calvarium. The calvarium is very thick, very protective of the bone. It is a tragedy.
[20:35:00] GRACE: Now let me ask you this, Dr. Morrone. Will they be able to tell if this was at point-blank range? I mean, what if the defendant
tries to claim that somehow this young mother was attacking her?
MORRONE: Here is the thing. The closer the gun gets to the back of the bone, the more carbon and discharge penetrates, and is on the skull. So
you would have to say according to most gun laws, a shot close like that could never be defensive. It could never be in self-defense. And then the
actual -- the hole is going to have beveling, which will prove the direction. But it`s the carbon, the char, the soot and the gunshot residue
as it is closer to the skull shows it is assassination style. There is no way this is self-defense.
GRACE: OK, Dr. Morrone, you are talking about the bevel, which is, you know, the edge of the entrance wound of the bullet. But what about gunshot
residue, stippling or burning on the skin? If this was on the back of the young mother`s head and the gunshot residue would be in her hair, is there
a way to really find out because I`m sure that there was never any time to do a residue test, gunshot powder residue test on the defendant herself so
you`d have to get it off the victim but if it was in her hair I don`t know that you can get gunshot residue out of hair.
MORRONE: You`re right but there is so much gas expelled from the gun when it goes this way. The closer it is, the gas actually gets under the skin
and blows the skin up, which is very significant for an ultra short distance in assassination styles. So it blows up and then there is bevel.
A tremendous amount of soot will be in the hair. But it will penetrate down and the looseness in the skin in the back of the head shows almost
like contact.
GRACE: So you can get it actually off the skin even though the hair is acting as a barrier. You`ll still get the burning and the stippling to the
skin even though the hair is between the skin and the weapon?
MORRONE: Absolutely. One hundred percent.
GRACE: OK. Yes. OK. I didn`t know that.
You know, Justin Freiman, also on the story with me in addition to Dr. William Morrone and Ninette Sosa.
Justin Freiman, to me this is just like insult to injury, so ironic the way that she allegedly lured her victim.
For those of you just joining us, a young mom gunned down execution style. Police say it was because the woman that kills her steals her babies
passing them off as her own after her boyfriend dumps her when he learns she faked a pregnancy.
How did she lure the young mom to this location to kill her?
JUSTIN FREIMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Nancy, she reaches out to this young mom online saying that she has baby clothing for her. And this young mom
was so excited. She was telling families she was ecstatic and thanking God that somebody was going to help her.
GRACE: You know, Caryn Stark, to take advantage of her in this way, you know, I can remember before the twins were born, I wanted to have their
room ready. I wanted it to be just right for them. You had to have the organic mattresses and everything the same. So, you know, they`d be happy
there. Everything was just right.
CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: I remember that, Nancy.
GRACE: And here`s this -- yes. And the baby clothes. Do you have the right things? Here is this mom, OK. She didn`t have much. She is going
to buy used baby clothes. And she gets murdered, Caryn.
STARK: And I can`t tell you Nancy. It is so heartbreaking. And you have to imagine what kind of person could take advantage of someone in that
situation? She`s a mom. She`s got young babies. She`s that desperate that she needs to go get used baby clothing. So obviously no money.
GRACE: And I`m sure the pictures online of the baby clothing were just beautiful.
Unleash the lawyers. Peter Odom, D.C., Heather Hansen, New York.
OK, Peter Odom.
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes.
GRACE: Give me your best shot here. Why shouldn`t she get the death penalty?
ODOM: Because the death penalty, Nancy, is cruel and unusual and inhumane, and nobody should get the death penalty.
GRACE: Not according to the U.S. Supreme Court.
ODOM: Well, I disagree with them on that.
GRACE: I`m sure you do.
ODOM: And some -- some of my favorite justices agree with me. So that`s one reason she shouldn`t get --
GRACE: Well, good for you.
ODOM: That`s one reason she shouldn`t get the death penalty.
GRACE: Now can we get back to reality? Give me something that you can argue to a jury that may capture the attention of one juror?
ODOM: So, Nancy, I`m sorry. Could you repeat is that?
GRACE: Yes, what`s your argument to a jury? I mean, you`re spouting off cruel and inhumane.
ODOM: This is --
[20:40:10] GRACE: But give me something that a jury might buy.
ODOM: This is -- first of all it`s headed for a mental defense. It`s going to be a two-part trial. There`s going to be a guilt phase. They`re
probably going to convict her of the crime but then it`s going to be an insanity phase where she`s going to claim a mental defense --
(CROSSTALK)
ODOM: She`s going to claim insanity because of this terrible delusion she had about children. It`s a terribly disorganized crime as well, so yes.
GRACE: She`s so crazy she takes out an ad. She lures the mom there.
ODOM: You asked me for my best shot, Nancy.
GRACE: Yes. But I`m --
ODOM: And I`m telling you.
GRACE: And I`m telling you what`s wrong with your best shot because she was not so insane she couldn`t take out an ad on the Internet, lure this
woman there.
ODOM: Nancy --
GRACE: Sneak up behind her and shoot her in the head. Then take the children.
ODOM: You know what?
GRACE: She even strapped the one kid in with a car seat.
ODOM: You know what, Nancy?
GRACE: What?
ODOM: Defense attorneys are sometimes left with a lot of bad alternatives. They`ve got forensic evidence against her. They`ve got a terrible crime.
They`ve got a very sympathetic victim. They`ve got children that are involved. It`s going to be a mental defense. Will it work or not? Mental
defenses are often raised. Very rarely do they work. But she at least has the colonels of it and this delusion she had about the pregnancy and the
children.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:45:27] GRACE: And live, Fort Lauderdale. A popular psychic bilked celebrities and regular folks out of $17 million claiming she can contact
their loved ones who have passed away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: According to authorities, Marx and her families continuously assured clients that they could lift curses and solve problems
in exchange for handing over large amounts of cash or other valuables in order to have this evil removed. One client is reported to have turned
over as much as $20 million.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Meredyth Censullo, investigative reporter. $17 million? Now this woman apparently bilked celebrities and regular people,
too, out of all that money. What celebs did she rip off?
MEREDYTH CENSULLO, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Actually a very famous author, Jude Deveraux, she ripped her off to the tune of $12 million. And that was
over a 20-year period of time. She would tell the author things like she could bring spirits back from the dead. And the author actually bought
into what she was saying and again handed over $12 million just on her own there. So that`s a large chunk of that $17.8 million that this crime ring
is accused of bilking from customers.
GRACE: With me, investigative reporter, Meredyth Censullo. So how did she trick all these stars, all these celebrities out of their money? What did
she say she could do, read their future?
CENSULLO: She said she could read the future. She said that she could predict if somebody was going to get a divorce. She said she could
communicate with children that they had lost if that was the case of Jude Devereux. I mean, really what she was doing is she was preying on people
that came to her and the rest of her gang of psychics as a last resort. These were a lot of people that had a sickness or that were really grieving
over the loss of a loved one.
GRACE: You know, something you just said is reprehensible.
To Bob Nygaard, private investigator who works on behalf of victims of psychics.
Bob, to claim to someone that you`re in touch with their dead child, really? She should rot in hell for that.
BOB NYGAARD, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: Yes. It really is despicable. These self-proclaimed psychics are very often very ruthless. And in the case of
Jude Deveraux, the novelist, she had had eight miscarriages trying to have a child. And then she finally adopted a son and he -- he was 8 years old,
she died in an ATV accident. And she exploited that death of her child for a financial gain. And I don`t know of anything much more evil than that.
GRACE: Oh, oh. OK. To Michael Christian, this woman, this Rose Marks, apparently bilks victims out of nearly $20 million, claiming she can reach
their loved ones on the other side. And also claims she can read their fortunes. How did the scam go down, Michael?
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, basically this was Mrs. Marks and her family. There were eight other family members who were
involved. And for the most part they would tell people that money was cursed. That they had a curse on them and money was evil. So if these
people handed over money to the family, somehow the family would bury it in a cemetery. They would take it to a church. They would get rid of the
curse and then they would return the money. Except they never did.
GRACE: With me is Mark Edward, psychic debunker. OK, Mark, thanks for being with us.
MARK EDWARD, PSYCHIC DEBUNKER: Thank you.
GRACE: How was Miss Marks able to con so many highly educated people out of nearly $20 million?
EDWARD: Well, it has no regard for education. It comes down to people who are vulnerable and they are searching for answers. And when you are in
that state, when you`ve lost a loved one or you`re searching, you will listen to anybody. And they`re very convincing and they have -- they seem
to have all the answers. So they really -- these people will go and search out somebody to give them answers. They don`t -- psychics don`t even have
to look for them.
GRACE: With me is a psychic medium, Gale St. John.
Gale, thank you for being with us. When people are seeking a psychic, what`s a tip your psychic is a fake?
[20:50:06] GALE ST. JOHN, PSYCHIC MEDIUM: Well, first thing is, if they are asking you for loads of money, obviously there is an issue right there.
That should be a red flag. The other thing is no psychic, no person -- I don`t know who they are that could ever cast spells, make somebody love
you, bring somebody back. Red flags.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHAD BERNSTEIN, CNN HERO: As a kid, I struggled a lot with self- esteem and bullying and that desire to fit in. When I found trombone, the music
became the place that I could do that that. As a professional musician, the disappearance of music in schools concerns me because I would be lost
without music.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Guitar over Guns will be meeting today. Please be on time and ready to rock.
BERNSTEIN: Our program offers free after-school programming to at-risk middle schoolers. Music is the most important tool we have in reaching
these kids.
Guys, if you could please finish up with the grades and go to the instruments.
In the classroom, we split the program often 30-minute chunks, a mentoring exercise, instrument instructions, and ensembles. Our mentors are
professional musicians. We build relationships.
How is everything?
We get to know their families and what their lives are like at home. A lot of times these kids only see to the end of their block. We like to give
them exposure to the rest of the world.
Over there is where we`re going to be recording vocals.
The best part about our program is watching these kids really transform.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Before the program, I wouldn`t even think that I`d be in a studio.
BERNSTEIN: You`re a little bit off timing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But now I probably could do medicine, I could do music, I probably could even be like a teacher.
BERNSTEIN: You want to punch in the ending?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Without this program, I`d either be in jail or dead.
BERNSTEIN: When I see a kid have their moment, it makes you realize that we`re doing work that matters.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:56:18] GRACE: To a Houston suburb after they allegedly steal a man`s iPad, they head straight to Burger King where they post videos of
themselves bragging about the heist. The alleged iPad selfie robbers busted.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Within seconds I realized who they were and I saw that they had my money in their mouth.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: They then took selfie videos showing and bragging what they did.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: All right. Let`s take a look at the video. Roll it, Liz.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nice hustle. We go any big face over here, new, old. We just hustle. Don`t worry about how.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No 20s, no 20s, no 5s, no 10s.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Read it. Big face.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you hustle, if you put your (EXPLETIVE DELETED) aside, you worry about you and yours, you get this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Yes, I got.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Let me just point out that one of the two suspects, (INAUDIBLE), has "brilliant" tattooed across his chest.
To Dave Mack, syndicated talk show host, what happened?
DAVE MACK, MORNING TALK SHOW HOST, CLEAR CHANNEL WAAX RADIO: Nancy, it was a crime of opportunity. They broke into a car. And the idiots didn`t
realize that you can automatically sync these things up, the video automatically uploads. And they`re so grandiose that they had to show off
because this defined stupid criminal, Nancy. They`re taking selfie photos and posting videos on YouTube, including -- and how they caught them, the
dude posted the video on his own Facebook page.
(LAUGHTER)
GRACE: OK. Guys, you`re seeing video from YouTube.
Matt Zarrell, what else do we know?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, the victim shared the photos of the suspects when he got them. But apparently this is all because of
Starbucks, Nancy. Some of the stolen items were dumped behind a Starbucks and the victim believed that the iPad actually connected to the Starbucks
Wi-Fi and then those images and videos synced to his iPad -- iCloud account.
GRACE: OK. You know what, Matt Zarrell, you`re talking a whole different language for a lot of people.
Ben Levitan, telecommunications expert, dummy it down for me, Ben. What did these two brilliant alleged perps do?
(LAUGHTER)
BEN LEVITAN, TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXPERT: This is great, Nancy. Basically, you know, we all should be backing up our computers and we don`t do it.
And so what we have now for us, because we don`t do that, is we have automatic backup. And that`s what iCloud is. Whenever you take a picture,
it automatically uploads it to a backup so that you -- if your computer or your iPad crashes, you don`t lose it. But what these brilliant people
don`t know is when you take a picture this is what we call -- a picture is a computer file.
GRACE: Tonight, Thursday, marks the beginning of the end of the Christian Holy Week with the night of the Last Supper, Maundy Thursday. To all of
you, a blessed Easter and a blessed Pesoch.
Let`s stop and remember American hero, Army specialist Marco Miller, 36, Longwood, Florida. Purple Heart, National Defense Service medal, Army
Service Ribbon, remember as a gentle giant. Owned a photography studio. Loved motorcycles, sports. Mother Renee, brother Demond, sisters Kim and
Mica. A daughter he never got to meet.
Marco Miller, American hero.
I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
