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Nancy Grace
Love-Crazed or Gun-Crazed?. Aired 8-9:00p ET
Aired April 14, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Highland Heights. Love- crazed or gun-crazed? Was Shayna Hubers a love-crazed woman who couldn`t let go of her boyfriend, or was Ryan Poston a gun-crazed attorney who
snapped under the pressures of his high-powered job? Twenty-nine-year-old Ryan Poston found dead on the marble floor in the dining room of his
upscale home, six bullet shots to the head, arm, chest.
Bombshell tonight. Twenty-four-year-old Shayna Hubers says she shot in self-defense, but police say she shot in cold blood. They say Ryan
wanted to stop the sex and dating with Shayna Hubers, but that she wouldn`t take no for an answer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: (INAUDIBLE) County 911.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ma`am, I killed my boyfriend in self-defense!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Detectives say the woman who called 911, Hubers, shot Poston six times, at least once in the forehead and then several more
times to, in her words, put him out of his misery.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You shot him in the face. You didn`t give him a nose job (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That video from ABC`s "GMA."
And live, Baltz (ph) Springs, Texas, where a pastor`s wife at the local church convinced Mommy and Daddy their 2-year-old tot possessed by
the devil. After 25 days of exorcism, including fasting, the boy`s dead. But then in a stunning and bizarre twist, it all comes to light when the
pastor`s wife conducts a so-called resurrection service, promising the devastated parents she can bring the boy back to life, and it`s all caught
on video from KXAS.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did a real-life resurrection occur at a Texas church? Authorities on the search for a 2-year-old boy, a boy who
reportedly died and then allegedly went through a resurrection ceremony. The boy does not come back to life. Tonight, authorities say they are
searching for the child and his family.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And manhunt, live, upscale Kensington suburbs. BOLO -- be on the lookout -- for this black Ford Edge SUV caught on video -- warning,
graphic, mowing down a 4-year-old little boy, then putting the pedal to the metal and taking off. And it`s all on video!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police are searching for the driver of an SUV who struck and killed a 4-year-old boy on the street.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Black female was operating that vehicle and left and went north on 57th Street.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Surveillance video shows the horrible scene as the driver plowed into the boy, sending him flying 15 feet down the street.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And to Oregon. Just graduated 27-year-old criminal justice coed disappears into thin air. Tonight, where is Shawna Fowler (ph)? We
follow the trail.
Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. Live to Highland Heights. Love-crazed or gun- crazed? Was Shayna Hubers, a love-crazed woman who could not let her boyfriend go, or was Ryan Poston a gun-crazed attorney who snapped under
the pressures of his high-powered job? Twenty-nine-year-old Ryan found dead on the marble floor in his dining room of his upscale home, six bullet
wounds to the head, arm and chest.
Twenty-four-year-old Shayna Hubers says she shot in self-defense, but police say she shot in cold blood, that Ryan wanted to stop the sex and
dating with Shayna Hubers, but she wouldn`t take no for an answer.
As go to air, we just obtain the chilling 911 call. And let me remind you before I play it for you, after she guns her lover down, she calls her
mother before she calls for EMTs. Take a listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: (INAUDIBLE) County 911.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ma`am, I have -- I have -- I killed my boyfriend in self-defense!
911 OPERATOR: OK, where are you at?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m at 12 Meadow Lane (INAUDIBLE) 41076.
911 OPERATOR: OK, 12 Meadow Lane? Are you at a house or an apartment there?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s an apartment. It`s apartment 10.
911 OPERATOR: Is it Meadow -- anything else, Meadow View or something?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, it`s called Meadow Lane (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: OK. OK. OK. OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: Tell me again -- tell me again what unit you`re in. It`s not showing on my computer.
[20:05:06]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s 10.
911 OPERATOR: OK, you`re at 12 Meadow Lane, unit number 10. OK. Hold on. Hold on. What did you kill him with?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A gun, a loaded gun in the house!
911 OPERATOR: Tell me where the gun is right now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The gun is in the house!
911 OPERATOR: Where at, though, ma`am? Tell me where it`s at.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I laid it on the bookshelf.
911 OPERATOR: Where at, laying on a shelf?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On the bookshelf. It`s (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: Where are you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m standing about 10 feet from his dead body!
911 OPERATOR: OK. Are you sure that he is dead?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes!
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: We`re going to go back to that 911 call, but first to Rita Cosby, investigative journalist and WABC host. Rita, it`s my understanding
she could not take no for an answer, that Ryan had tried to stop the sex and the dating for a long time. He had talked to his family about it, to
his mother about it, that he wanted to break up.
As a matter of fact, the night of the shooting, she was leaving. She was cleaning out all of her stuff out of his place and getting out of
there.
What do we know, Rita? What happened?
RITA COSBY, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST, WABC HOST: Well, what happened, according to her, is that she goes over there. He`s trying to throw her
out. He takes her out (ph). Now, she claims that he physically and verbally abused her, saying, You`re just a hillbilly, making fun of her
voice, a whole bunch of things. And then when she goes back in to grab her clothes...
GRACE: Whoa, whoa! Wait a minute! Wait a minute! Whoa, whoa, wait, wait! So he calls her a hillbilly, and so, what, are those fighting words?
COSBY: Well, that`s what she says. And she said that he also physically grabbed her. And in fact, she has some bruises on her body.
It`s not clear if it`s...
GRACE: Where?
COSBY: ... from that, but that`s...
GRACE: Where?
COSBY: ... what she...
GRACE: Bruises where?
COSBY: Chest, arm and legs.
GRACE: Chest, arm and legs. OK, I wonder, were those bruises -- to you, Melissa Neeley, anchor with WLW. Melissa, were those bruises
manifested at the time police got there? Whoa! Wait, wait, wait, wait! Was that a shot of her in a gun -- a firing range, Liz? Back it up for me,
Liz. What is she doing at a firing range?
OK, Melissa Neeley, were the bruises manifested at the time EMTs finally got there?
MELISSA NEELEY, WLW (via telephone): They were. And the bruises were on her. So as far as we know right now, that when they got there, she
looked to have been in some type of altercation, although we don`t know if for a fact that that was from him and her.
GRACE: OK, Rita Cosby, go ahead. So they`re fighting. She claims she`s going to move her stuff out. Now, I know reports that he had told
his family he wanted to break it off. What about her?
COSBY: Right. She is saying that she was not aware of any problem in their relationship, that it was tumultuous, but that she is saying that
when she went over there, yes, he did try to kick her out. And then she said that he did throw her out, physically was throwing her out. She says
she came back in to get her stuff, physically get her stuff, and that`s when she claims that he grabbed down, reached towards his gun...
GRACE: Now, wait! I don`t something you just said, Rita Cosby. Don`t mean to interrupt, but let me understand this. So she goes over to
get her stuff?
COSBY: Yes, they apparently get in an argument. She goes over to say hello to him. She thinks it`s a normal night. He is breaking up with her,
says, Get out, take your stuff. She leaves, comes back to get her stuff. And she is claiming at that moment, he grabbed his gun, which was a loaded
gun. He had a number of guns in the house. And that`s when she said she took the gun and shot him in self-defense.
GRACE: Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Wait! So he`s got guns. Now, this is what I don`t understand. So Melissa Neeley, WLW, she comes over, a normal
night. She finds out he`s going to kick her out. She starts getting her stuff. She takes one load out to the car, comes back in and then that`s
when he pulls a gun on her? He`s kicking her out. She`s leaving with her stuff, and then he pulls a gun on her? That doesn`t make sense to me,
Melissa.
NEELEY: Well, I don`t think that law enforcement thought it made sense, either, because according to the detective that interviewed her,
apparently, her story changed a number of times about who had the gun and how she ended up with it and where it was before it was in the area.
GRACE: Oh, OK...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Melissa? Melissa? She changed her story? Didn`t know that. Let`s take a listen to what she says on that 911 call. What can we learn?
Love-crazed, a woman that won`t take no for an answer, or was he gun- crazed, snapping under the pressures of a high-powered job as a lawyer? Listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
COSBY: (INAUDIBLE) County 911.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ma`am, I have -- I have -- I killed my boyfriend in self-defense!
911 OPERATOR: OK, where are you at?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m at 12 Meadow Lane (INAUDIBLE) 41076.
911 OPERATOR: OK, 12 Meadow Lane? Are you at a house or an apartment there?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s an apartment. It`s apartment 310.
[20:10:04]911 OPERATOR: Is it Meadow -- anything else, Meadow View or something?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, it`s called Meadow Lane (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: OK. OK. OK. OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: Tell me again -- tell me again what unit you`re in. It`s not showing on my computer.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: OK, you`re at 12 Meadow Lane, unit number 10. OK. Hold on. Hold on. What did you kill him with?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A gun, a loaded gun in the house!
911 OPERATOR: Tell me where the gun is right now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The gun is in the house!
911 OPERATOR: Where at, though, ma`am? Tell me where it`s at.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I laid it on the bookshelf.
911 OPERATOR: Where at, laying on a shelf?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On the bookshelf. It`s (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: Where are you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m standing about 10 feet from his dead body!
911 OPERATOR: OK. Are you sure that he is dead?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes! He`s dead, ma`am. He`s completely dead!
911 OPERATOR: OK. And how long ago did you shoot him?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t know, 15, 10 minutes, not even that long (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: Ten or 15 minutes ago?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
911 OPERATOR: OK, what`s your name?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My name is Shayna Michelle Hubers.
911 OPERATOR: I`m sorry? What is it again? Tell me...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shayna Michelle Hubers.
911 OPERATOR: Shoopers?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hubers. H-U-B-E-R-S, Hubers.
911 OPERATOR: OK. What`s your name again, Shayna or Sayna?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shayna, S-H-A-Y-N-A, like...
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:15:39]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Defense attorneys say the shots were fired in self-defense. The one living witness, Shayna, has told multiple
stories.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On the stand, Hubers read a text she sent just days before Poston`s death.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to turn around (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hubers testifying that the text was just a joke.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I want to turn around, shoot him dead and pretend it was just an accident? You saw that on "GMA" on ABC.
Rita Cosby, what did she say in her text?
COSBY: Yes, this was a text to a friend that she said when she was at the gun range -- remember the picture you referred to at the gun range --
saying that, I want to take him there and pretend, essentially, that it`s like an accident, play like it`s an accident. And needless to say,
prosecutors say that is...
GRACE: Whoa! Whoa!
COSBY: ... extremely damning evidence.
GRACE: Whoa! Whoa! Areva Martin, Gary Cassimir -- Areva Martin, in a text, she tells a friend -- there`s the gun range. She says she`s going
to take him -- she wants to take him to the gun range, shoot him dead, kill him and play like it`s an accident?
Areva Martin, now you`re a good defense attorney. I want to hear what`s your defense? I`m all ears.
AREVA MARTIN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, you never...
GRACE: I`m one big ear.
MARTIN: First of all -- first of all, that statement may not even get introduced into this trial...
GRACE: It`s already in. It`s coming in.
MARTIN: We know how people use social media. They make all kinds of statements on social media that are...
GRACE: Really? Like, I want to kill my boyfriend?
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: The more important things in this case are going to be those bruises on her body...
GRACE: Excuse me.
MARTIN: ... which support her claim...
GRACE: Excuse me.
MARTIN: ... that she was defending herself...
GRACE: Excuse me.
MARTIN: ... and that this is a case of self-defense!
GRACE: Runaway train.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Runaway train. Get back on the track, Areva.
MARTIN: No, not at all! You know...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Have you ever sent a text...
MARTIN: ... domestic violence!
GRACE: Have you ever sent a text, Areva Martin, that said, I`d love to shoot and kill my husband and pretend it`s an accident? Ever?
MARTIN: We`ve all sent texts...
GRACE: I never have.
MARTIN: ... that are making jokes and...
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: ... be serious, and this is just one of those cases!
GRACE: Uh-oh! Uh-oh!
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Now Cassimir`s tuning up.
GARY CASSIMIR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That`s right. I think that...
GRACE: All right, hit me.
CASSIMIR: If I could have texted at 20, I would be apologizing for a lot of things I shouldn`t have said. You have to take into considering the
fact that she is only 20 (sic) years old. She was a kid at the time of this. She was only 21-and-a-half when the murder happened. I think we
will be able to defend this case...
GRACE: Can I tell you something?
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Put him up. Put him up. Put him up!
CASSIMIR: Teenagers do stupid things.
GRACE: Cassimir -- Cassimir, when I was 21, I was already in law school and holding down three jobs, so I don`t want to hear...
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: That`s not fair, Nancy!
GRACE: Yes, it is fair.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Well, I guaranteed you having the ability to text did not influence what she did.
Hold on. I`m hearing in my ear we`re getting more of that 911 call. Listen. What do we learn?
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: Ma`am, I don`t know what they`ll do. We`re going to send them out. I`m going the stay on the line with you, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I mean, I`m not a murderer, ma`am! I just killed him in self-defense!
911 OPERATOR: What happened exactly? What happened?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) carried me out of the house! (INAUDIBLE) He beat me and tried to carry me out of the house, and I came
back in to get my things. And he was right in front of me, and he reached down and grabbed the gun and I grabbed it out of his hand (INAUDIBLE)
pulled the trigger!
911 OPERATOR: OK. All right. Do you need an ambulance? Have you been injured?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) thrown into the side of the couch.
911 OPERATOR: OK. And how old is he?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s 29, will be 30 -- he would have been 30 on December the 30th.
911 OPERATOR: All right. What`s his name?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ryan Carter Poston. He`s an attorney in Cincinnati.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to Dr. William Morrone, renowned pathologist, medical examiner, toxicologist. Thank you for being with us. Did you hear what
she just said? A, He grabbed the gun from me, and I grabbed it back. I`m not injured. I was thrown onto a sofa. That`s a pretty soft landing.
But what I want to talk to you about, Dr. Morrone, is the fact that the dining room table, OK -- the dining room table -- he`s found dead on
the dining room floor. The table was covered in blood. Prosecutors claim he was sitting down when he was murdered. Help me out, Doctor.
[20:20:00]DR. WILLIAM MORRONE, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST, MEDICAL EXAMINER: OK, here`s what happens. You shoot somebody who`s sitting versus shoot
somebody who`s standing, you end up with a situation that if you shoot somebody standing, they`re going to fall backwards, and all your blood is
going to be in the back or dropped straight down. That`s what happens if you shoot somebody who`s standing.
Now, if you look at this model right behind here, you shoot somebody who`s sitting, they have nowhere to go except to fall forward, and all the
blood from this person is going to fall forward on the table.
This man, according to the information that I had, was shot in a sitting position, possibly, a high probability in a sitting position, and
the blood in the body fell forward and is likely moved in the crime scene. That`s my assessment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A woman called 911 saying she just shot her boyfriend in self-defense.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nowhere near justification for shooting and killing someone and shooting them six times.
[20:25:02]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police arrived to find the 29-year-old Ryan Poston dead on his dining room floor with six gunshot wounds.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Dead on the floor. And she even made the comment -- to you, Rita Cosby, investigative journalist, WABC host. Rita, isn`t it true that
she, this young woman, Shayna Hubers, who wouldn`t take no for an answer, when the boyfriend tried to break up -- I mean, really? Murder before a
breakup?
Did she tell police, I guess I gave him that nose job he always wanted by shooting him in the face?
COSBY: Yes, this is, I think, obviously, very damning towards her. She told detectives when they arrived -- first of all, she shot him six
times. She admits to that. And they said, Why did you shoot him six times? And she said, I shot him once or twice in the head, and then the
rest I did to stop him from twitching, to stop him from moaning...
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait! Put her up. What? She said what? I didn`t hear that.
COSBY: Yes, this is...
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: She said to detectives, according to detectives, that the reason she shot him multiple times -- first, she shot him once or twice in
self-defense, and then he was twitching and moaning, as you would if you were shot, and she said, I did it to, quote, "put him out of his misery,"
and then, I guess I gave him the nose job he always wanted.
GRACE: To Dr. William Morrone joining me, renowned pathologist. Explain to me what we know about the injuries to this young man`s face.
To all of you mothers, sisters out there -- you know, my son is going to grow up, God willing, and I sure as heck hope he never runs into
somebody like Shayna Hubers. You know, you put them through college -- Dr. Morrone, you have a boy and a girl. You put them through college, you put
them through law school, they`re finally on their own two feet, they`re out there making it.
This guy`s finally practicing law. His dream`s coming true after all that hard work -- you know what? Put down the skull for a minute, all
right, and think, Dr. Morrone, all right? You put your child through all of this for somebody like Shayna Hubers to march in and give him the nose
job he always wanted? What were the injuries?
MORRONE: When you shoot somebody in self-defense, more than likely, if they`re leaning forward, going away or moving, the injuries will be
closer to the top, and they`ll be in the cranium. When you shoot somebody at a close range, like this right here, the bullet trajectory will go more
or less to the eyes...
GRACE: Right.
MORRONE: ... and to the nasal and to the mouth, and this will damage, and this is where you have the most pain. Shots...
GRACE: Can you even imagine? I mean, she says through (ph) -- she gave him the nose job he always wanted? He`s shot how many times...
(CROSSTALK)
MORRONE: ... sensation. This is where you have all the pain. You shoot at somebody up here, you shoot them in the shoulder, shoot them in
the chest, there`s not a lot of pain. You shoot somebody in the face, that is a lot of pain.
GRACE: Rita, did she actually tell police she couldn`t stand to see his face deformed so she -- because he was so vain, so she went ahead and
killed him so he wouldn`t go through life with some type of a handicap, that it would be better to be dead than have a nose job? And did she
change her story?
COSBY: Yes, she did say that, and then she also said that he was moaning and twitching and moving so much after she, quote, "shot him in
self-defense," that that`s why she shot him. And then again, she used the excuse that he was so vain and wanted to put him out of his misery.
GRACE: What did we learn from 911. We just got our mitts on it. Take a listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: OK, then you had a history of a domestic violence with him?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
911 OPERATOR: OK. And is this your gun?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, this is his gun. He keeps loaded guns in the house.
911 OPERATOR: So he slammed you into the couch, but you don`t have any injuries?
911 OPERATOR: I don`t have any injuries. I was just very frightened. He`s a lot bigger than me. He`s 6`3, 200 pounds. I`m 5-8, 120. And he --
and he picked me up and threw me out of the house. And I said, Let me get my things, at least, if we`re going to break up. And he wouldn`t let me
get my things. And when I reached around to try to get my things, he -- I can hear myself echoing in the background, ma`am.
911 OPERATOR: It`s just (INAUDIBLE) sound system. Our sound system has got a delay.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And he (INAUDIBLE) me down from the door all the way to the couch. And when they come here, they`ll see how far that is.
He threw me across the room, and I was very (INAUDIBLE) I was laying on the floor!
911 OPERATOR: OK.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:34:18]
GRACE: We are live, Bolt (ph) Springs, Texas, where a pastor`s wife at a local church convinces mommy and daddy their 2-year-old little boy
Benjamin is possessed by the devil. After 25 days of exorcism, including serious fasting for the little boy, the boy is dead. But then in a
stunning and bizarre twist, it all comes to light when the pastor`s wife conducts a so-called resurrection service, insisting to the devastated
parents they can bring their baby boy back to life. It`s all caught on video obtained by KXAS.
[20:35:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Law enforcement searching for a 2-year-old child and the boy`s parents after reports the child dies, then an alleged
resurrection performed. The boy`s family allegedly drives the dead body of the child away. No sign of the boy or the family since. What happened?
Where are they?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You`re seeing video of the alleged exorcism resurrection from KXAS. Let`s see it in full, Liz. Now, we`re showing you the video of the
resurrection service. There you see the pastor on the right, the pastor`s right with a microphone on the left. We`re blurring baby Benjamin. The
child that has been exorcised for 25 straight days. You can`t understand what they`re saying because she says she`s speaking in tongues. Speaking
in tongues. The baby is dead. The baby boy is dead. A 2-year-old tot. Because allegedly, this pastor`s wife, this church convinced the parents
the baby was possessed by the devil and they had the child fast to exorcise him for 25 days. You`re seeing video of the alleged exorcism resurrection
service from KXAS. To Billy Hallowell, faith editor at The Blaze, I only know for sure of one person that came back from the dead, and that was not
him. All right, Billy, what happened?
BILLY HALLOWELL, THE BLAZE: So, you know, they hold this ceremony in an effort to try to bring him back to life. It doesn`t happen. They leave
the house. We don`t know where they are. We don`t know their whereabouts.
GRACE: Let me back it up.
So, at the time of this resurrection service, this -- I don`t even know what you would call it. They`re performing on the little boy. He`s
dead. When they bring him into the church, right?
HALLOWELL: Well, here`s the thing. They`re living in the church.
GRACE: Right, but is the boy dead in this video?
HALLOWELL: Yes. According to witnesses, he is dead at this point when they are doing this ceremony.
GRACE: You`re seeing video of the alleged exorcism resurrection from KXAS. This is the pastor and the pastor`s wife. Performing the ritual.
Joining me right now is a special guest, actually, two special guests. Lieutenant Mark Maret is with us from the Bolt Springs Police Department
and a Catholic priest, host of "The Word in the World," from San Bernardino, Father Michael Manning. Gentlemen, thank you for being with
us.
Lieutenant Maret, so, is it your understanding the 2-year-old boy was I guess quote exorcised for 25 days, including not feeding him? The boy
dies, and then they have this resurrection service?
LT. MARK MARET: That`s the correct understanding that we have. He went -- fast for 20 days, approximately 25 days without food, just water.
GRACE: Lieutenant Mark Maret with us, Father Michael Manning now joining us from San Bernardino. Father, I`m so distressed that these
parents were convinced that their little 2-year-old boy was possessed by demons. And Father Manning, I`m not saying that that`s not true, that there
are not exorcisms, that there are not demons or devils or evil in this world, but how -- you have performed an exorcism, correct?
FR. MICHAEL MANNING: I prayed over people. Every priest, every baptism, we make sure that Satan is not going to enter into that child.
GRACE: Explain to me your take on what you are observing. Why is this not an exorcism of the devil?
MANNING: Well, the whole thought, first of all, we have to believe that Satan is real. We study the Bible, we find that Jesus was the person
who drove out Satan, but the problem is that today, we`ve got to make very sure that we`re not dealing with perhaps a sickness, we`re not dealing with
schizophrenia or a mental illness. And that has to be verified, so doctors need to be brought in and experts in psychology need to be brought in. We
need to clarify what the situation is. I get very nervous when you can say that a little 2-year-old is possessed by Satan, and that really isn`t
something that we should follow that road. I would much more be concerned about being the bigger picture and understanding medically and
psychologically what`s the problem. That does not mean that we don`t pray. Of course we pray.
GRACE: Can I ask you a question --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Everyone, with me, Father Michael Manning, the host of "The Word in the World."
[20:40:00]
And I don`t think anybody on our program tonight would disagree that evil and the devil is alive and well in our world today. We cover it every
single night, Father Manning.
But what this pastor`s wife, this church is accused of doing in my mind is evil itself. Have you ever, other than I`ll give you Lazarus, I`ll
give you that one, Father Manning, but other than Lazarus, have you ever heard of known of someone being resurrected through exorcism? From the
dead?
MANNING: No, I haven`t. To be honest with you, I have never heard of that.
GRACE: I`m so beside myself, Father Manning. Not only is this little boy, Benjamin, 2 years old, dead, he`s basically, I imagine starved to
death since they made him fast for 25 days. But not only is he dead, but in the name of the church. It`s so offensive. Another thing, Father
Manning, is fasting for nearly a month, is that typically part of an exorcism?
MANNING: Prayer and fasting is something you would do when you come into a situation where it`s been confirmed that Satan is present in this
person, yes, you pray and you fast.
GRACE: I find it hard to believe that Satan is in a 2-year-old boy.
MANNING: Once again, when we`re talking about a 2-year-old child, this is really not what we`re talking about with regard to exorcism.
Please, let`s be very, very cautious about moving into that world.
GRACE: I agree, Father.
We are about to play for you again, and I want to warn you, what we are blurring is this 2-year-old child`s face. His parents convinced he was
possessed by this church, the pastor`s wife, convinced he was possessed by the devil. The child fasts, basically is starved for 25 days. Forced to
eat at the table with the adults, but not allowed to eat food. The child dies, of course. Then the brainwashing goes on. This pastor`s wife
claiming she`s speaking in tongues, that she can resurrect the baby boy. You`re seeing video of the alleged exorcism resurrection, KXAS.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She speaks in tongues during this ceremony.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:46:30]
GRACE: Manhunt, live, upscale Kensington suburbs. BOLO, be on the lookout for this black Ford Edge SUV caught on video mowing down a 4-year-
old little boy. Then taking off, and it`s all on video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Disturbing video just released shows an SUV striking a 4-year-old boy, sending him flying down the road.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What we have is a 2011 to 2014 black Ford Edge. We`re certain it`s those years and that kind of vehicle.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Reports say the boy was sent 15 feet down the street on impact, and then the car ran over the child, causing severe head
trauma, resulting in death. A $20,000 reward is being offered for information that leads to an arrest and conviction.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I mean, that car zoomed out of there. It took off. If it weren`t for this video, we wouldn`t know a thing about it. Be on the
lookout for this SUV, a Ford Edge. Solomon Jones, host WRD, what happened?
SOLOMON JONES, WRD: So, about 6:30, 6:30 Monday evening, a 4-year-old boy darted into the street from between parked cars on the 1600 block in
(inaudible) Southwest Philly. He was struck by the black SUV, which knocks him about 15 feet into air, then drove over him as it fled the scene,
causing deadly head injuries.
GRACE: Joining me right now, a witness to the hit and run, the deadly hit and run. Jerome Eskridge is joining us. Mr. Eskridge, thank you for
being with us.
JEROME ESKRIDGE, WITNESS: Thank you.
GRACE: What did you see?
ESKRIDGE: My grandchildren and I were crossing through the same street the little boy was crossing. We were at the next corner, which is
Warrington (ph) avenue, I guess 20, 30 feet away, crossing, going to the same exact store he was going to. The car allowed us to pass, because the
car was on the opposite side of Warrington avenue. Allowed us to cross the street. My two grandchildren and I, and then she proceeded to move on
behind me. By the time we got to the other side of the street, the little boy was hit. I took my little grandchildren into the store, ran down to
see if I could help the little boy. By that time, he was bleeding from everywhere. I think he went into shock soon after that. You know, I
think, I thought he had died right there. But when after about ten minutes, police arrived, they said he didn`t have a pulse.
I witnessed as I was kneeling down with the little guy some women running after the vehicle. The black SUV. But as soon as he crossed the
next street, which is (inaudible), it made a left and veered up, I can`t think of the name of the street. I can`t think of the name of the street,
but -- and after that, it disappeared.
GRACE: Guys, you are seeing, it`s very rare, we`ve obtained footage of this hit and run. That is the little 4-year-old boy. Now, you can`t
make out a lot about him, because I think he`s got on dark shorts, but what you can really make out is his shirt. Running across the street. That`s
the child laying out in the middle of the street. The little boy is running right there. He`s only 4. He`s extremely small. And low to the
ground. That is a little boy, and there you see the child laying in the street. And the SUV guns it and leaves.
[20:50:00]
Mr. Eskridge, did the SUV even slow down?
ESKRIDGE: No.
You see on the video that she tried to swerve, but what it looks like is that after she hit him, she knocked him to the left of her vehicle. And
then -- because she hit him with the right side of her vehicle and then knocked him to the left side of the vehicle. She tried to swerve because
she must have known she hit something. You can see her trying to swerve over to the left, where she runs him over. Because she had knocked him 15
feet over to the other side of the street, and then swerved to go around him, but actually ran over him and continued on.
GRACE: To Dr. Charles Sophy, psychiatrist, author of "Side by Side," out of L.A. The thinking, the frame of mind to just run down a kid, okay.
Let`s just say it was an accident. But then to take off and leave the child laying, bleeding, as Mr. Eskridge said, bleeding from everywhere, to
leave it there?
SOPHY: It`s absolutely unthinkable. I mean, even if she thought she hit something, stop and find out what it is. Because she not only hit it
once, she hit it twice. She ran over it. How you live with that is going to be the most difficult part for her. So hopefully she is going to come
forward, because that`s the only way she is ever going to come through this.
GRACE: To Solomon Jones, the host at WURD, Solomon, what leads do we have on the driver?
JONES: So we know that it was a black female. And investigators, again, the vehicle they say was a limited addition, 2011 to 2014 black Ford
Edge SUV. They do say it had chrome trim on the windows, and they say it may have front end damage to the lower left side. All they know about the
driver is she was a black female. At least that`s all they released to the public at this time.
GRACE: Hey, there is a $20,000 reward. $20,000. If you can help us solve who ran down a 4-year-old toddler and kept going, leaving the boy to
die like a dog in the street. $20,000. Tip line, 215-685-3180. Repeat, 215-685-3180.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:56:30]
GRACE: To Oregon. A newly graduated 27-year-old criminal justice coed disappears into thin air. Tonight, what happened to Shauna Fowler.
We follow the trail.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A beautiful 27-year-old woman, finished her criminal justice studies, is now at the center of a desperate police
search.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Michael Christian on the story. Michael, Shauna left some clues behind. What do we know?
CHRISTIAN: Nancy, she just disappeared into thin air. But she left behind her purse, her car, her keys, even her dogs. Two cell phones. No
activity on the Internet from her, her credit cards haven`t been used. She just vanished into thin air.
GRACE: When was she last seen, Michael?
CHRISTIAN: She was last seen the night of March 26th between 10:00 and 11:00 by family members.
GRACE: Doing what, where? Who, what, where, why and when, Michael, lay it out for me.
CHRISTIAN: She was home. She lived in the middle of Oregon on some property that her uncles also had a home on. She was reported missing the
next day by her mother.
GRACE: So she was living on property her uncle belonged to. This is southwest Riggs Road there in Powell Butte (ph), Oregon. It`s central
Oregon and Crook (ph) County. Now she had just graduated. Let`s see that graduation picture, Liz. And she was pursuing her dream of criminal
justice. What do we know about where she had been leading up to that, Michael?
CHRISTIAN: You know, we don`t know much about that day. Police haven`t released a lot of details. But we know that she had been looking
since graduation for a job in that particular area.
GRACE: Let`s talk about what is left behind. Purse, cell phones and vehicle. What do we know about possible pings? Hold on. Did you say she
left her purse and her cell phone or took it with her?
CHRISTIAN: No, she left two cell phones. And they were found in her residence.
GRACE: Okay. So that`s not going to help.
CHRISTIAN: Nope.
GRACE: Is this a rural area? Is there any chance there could be some type of surveillance video?
CHRISTIAN: It is a very rural area. She actually lived on a ranch. It`s a very brushy area. They did searches for her for two weeks on the
ground and by air. Found no sign. Now they have transferred or transitioned the investigation into a missing person`s case. But no longer
a search and rescue.
GRACE: Take a look at Shauna Fowler, just turned 27. Just graduates in criminal justice. You can see her in her cap and gown. 5`4. 110
pounds, blond hair, blue eyes. Last seen wearing tan corduroy pants, a light colored shirt, black vest. Recent criminal justice graduate. Tip
line, 541-447-6398.
Let`s remember American hero, Marine Lance Corporal Derek Jones, just 21, Salem, Oregon. Hawaii Medal of Honor. Loved the outdoors, hunting,
fishing. Dreamed of being an architect and building his dream home. Mother Laurie, brother Chad, widow and high school sweetheart Pamela. A
daughter, Madison. Derek Jones, American hero.
Drew up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friends.
END
