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Nancy Grace

Chelsea Bruck`s Body Found. Aired 8-9:00p ET

Aired April 27, 2015 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Newport, Michigan. She goes to a Halloween costume party dressed as super-villain Poison Ivy

from "Batman." Amidst the other party-goers, she disappears, never seen again.

After police find parts of a Halloween costume connected to the disappearance of Chelsea Bruck, bombshell tonight. As we go to air, we

learn the naked body of Chelsea Bruck has just been identified.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was dressed as the Poison Ivy character from "Batman."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Missing from a giant costume party.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Kind-hearted and sweet and innocent.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) detectives were getting close to figuring out what happened to Chelsea Bruck.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Authorities found a body in this heavily wooded area in Ashe (ph) township.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And live, Old Town Spring (ph) to a local music festival, where a festival goer viciously attacked by a deadly an alligator at an

alligator round-up, the horrific alligator attack caught on video. We have the video.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: More than 100 people are watching as the trainer taps the nine-foot-long gator`s head several times. Then suddenly, he

snaps.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

And live, tony Wilmington. One of the country`s most elite prep schools, Tower Hill School, where 55-year-old headmaster of nine years

busted on 2,000-plus images of horrific child porn.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Christopher Wheeler (ph), the 55-year-old former headmaster of a prestigious private school, is accused of possessing child

pornography. Authorities claim the man was running a program to destroy files shortly before they entered his home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.

Bombshell tonight. To Newport, Michigan. She goes to a Halloween costume party dressed as super-villain Poison Ivy from "Batman." Amidst

all the other party-goers, about 500 of them, she disappears, never seen again. After police find parts of a Halloween costume connected to the

disappearance of Chelsea Bruck, as we go to air tonight, we learn the naked body of Chelsea has just been identified.

Straight out to Charlie Langton, WWJ, joining us. Charlie, first of all, how did they identify that this is absolutely Chelsea?

CHARLIE LANGTON, WWJ (via telephone): Well, this body, first of all, was so badly decomposed that they had to bring in anthropologists to ID the

body. Dental records finally conclusively show that, yes, it was Chelsea Bruck, 22 years old. She was naked. This is -- the body was found in a

very heavily wooded area on private property. The owner is not a person of interest at this time. But the police are saying that the killer had to

know this area because it`s so, so remote.

GRACE: OK, back it up! Back it up, Charlie Langton, WWJ. Now, you`ve already -- everybody, this is Chelsea Bruck as they knew her at the

party. But one of the problems we had trying to find her is that she looks nothing like this. She`s got on a wig. She actually has blond hair, very,

very fair-complected, very quiet, very demure, lived at home.

Charlie Langton, you`re telling me the property owner has been ruled out. First, tell me about the property where Chelsea`s remains have been

found.

LANGTON: Well, first of all, this property, again, a very rural part of Michigan, about 30 miles south of Detroit area. The property owner was

doing some excavating work...

GRACE: Let`s see that...

(CROSSTALK)

LANGTON: ... when the property owner discovered the body.

GRACE: Everybody, you are seeing aerial footage of one of the search areas. This is near some local railroad tracks. We don`t know what, if

any, the significance of that is. And I`ve also been told that the body was about 10 miles away from where the costume was found.

Now, what does that mean? What significance? What it says to me is there`s a tertiary crime scene, A, where she was taken from the party.

Let`s see video of the party we`re talking about. And you`ll see how difficult it was for people to remember when Chelsea left. She went there

with some girlfriends. She partied for quite some time, meeting new people, extremely shy, in this outfit, but no one would recall definitely

seeing her leave or whom she was with, if anyone -- because of her costume, very difficult to get a positive ID at the party.

[20:05:01]First crime scene, kidnapping. Second crime scene, where her costume was found. And third crime scene would be where the body was

dumped. Now, if you keep looking at this video, you`ll see there are about 500 or more people that showed up uninvited at the party after it was

posted on Facebook.

So Charlie Langton, how far away from the party was the body found?

LANGTON: It`s about 10 miles or so from the party where the body was found. But this party was quite a party. Big Mike is the -- he -- he

headed the party. He`s a singer in a rock band. There was about eight bands, BYOB. A lot of drinking was going on, advertised as a -- his annual

"f-ing" Halloween bash, is what he said. So it`s quite a bash.

And everyone was dressed up, a lot of drinking right there at the party. And Chelsea didn`t have her cell phone. She came with a co-worker,

left her cell phone in her purse in a car, and then she was seen leaving the party about 3:00 AM, although no one said there was anything unusual

about that, but she -- that was when she was last seen from this rather wild party.

GRACE: OK, Charlie Langton, tell me again. She`s found in a densely wooded area. What was the area, residential? What was it?

LANGTON: It`s a private property, heavily wooded. There`s some railroad tracks next to it. The police are saying that the -- that whoever

did the killing -- and they believe that she was killed, Chelsea was killed, at this scene. It is very, very remote. You really have to know

the area to get there.

GRACE: Well, then, let me ask you this, Charlie Langton. Why was her costume found elsewhere, pieces of her costume...

LANGTON: That is a mystery.

GRACE: ... that were absolutely -- I remember the night that we announced part of her costume had been found.

Justin, if you could show me that -- if was leaves off of her Poison Ivy outfit that were found several miles away from where her body is found.

We have video of the actual leaf found off her costume. Now, how somebody found that out in the middle of a field is beyond me, but they did. They

found actual leaves off her costume. And it wasn`t right there. Look at this, how this was found.

So there has to be three crime scenes, Charlie Langton -- where she was taken from the party, why was her costume here, and where her body was

found, unless they discarded her costume after her death.

Let me go now, in addition to Charlie Langton, WWJ, with me, forensic anthropologist joining me out of Ft. Myers, Heather Walsh-Haney. Dr.

Walsh-Haney, thank you for being with us. First of all, if we can`t -- if we don`t have DNA, how do we know it`s her? And also, Doctor, we know she

was skeletonized, completely skeletonized.

HEATHER WALSH-HANEY, FORENSIC ANTHROPOLOGIST (via telephone): Well, the two questions that the forensic anthropologists in Michigan will be

helping the medical examiner answer is, Do the remains believed to be Chelsea Bruck fit her known medical and dental records?

And so what it sounds like what they`ve already done is they`ve looked at X-rays of her mouth and the victim`s mouth, so in life and after death

X-rays. And they`ve been able to establish, it seems like that, the positive ID based upon her unique dentition -- the fillings that were

there, her bite, maybe a little bit of a crooked incisor or canine that they`ve been able to chart.

And then what the forensic anthropologists will do is they will look at Chelsea`s remains for any sign of fracturing that might indicate some

sort of trauma that happened at or around the time of death. That could be a gunshot wound. It could be a stabbing. It could be blunt force trauma.

GRACE: Let me ask you this, Dr. Walsh-Haney. How do you make a positive ID from dental records alone?

WALSH-HANEY: Well, from dental records alone, usually, the anthropologist will chart the piece (ph) postmortem. And the in-life

dental chart, if it`s not X-rays, will be presented. And there may be a unique number of dental posts and fillings and the shape of those fillings,

as well as whether her wisdom teeth had been extracted or whether they`re still there or not.

GRACE: Well, I mean, you`re right, Doctor. There`s a million ways to identify someone strictly by dental records. You can tell was it

orthodontia? Did they wear braces? Do they have implants? Do they have false teeth? Do they have veneers? Where is a cavity? Where has it been

filled? Do they have a bridge? I mean, that is extremely unique to the individual.

However, really, you got to have somebody to compare it to. For instance, if you find this body, Charlie Langton, out in the middle of

nowhere, like this naked female body was found, you got have to have an idea who you`re going to compare it to as far as dental records go.

[20:10:09]So Charlie Langton, WWJ, do they immediately know it was Chelsea? And if so, why?

LANGTON: Well, it took them a day to actually determine that the body -- they did have some identification, but they`re still waiting for an

autopsy result. That has not yet been done, but that will be done. It could, they say -- the police are saying it could take upwards of a month

to figure it out from the autopsy. But they are -- based on the dental records, they have identified it as the body now as Chelsea Bruck. No.

GRACE: OK, now Charlie, you say this is a densely wooded area. A property owner was out doing what? How did he stumble upon her naked body?

LANGTON: He was building a house, doing some excavating work on the house. This is a very swampy are, lots of trees, railroad tracks. It`s

not heavily traveled at all by anybody. And so that`s what the owner was doing.

The police obviously took a look at the owner, but they -- but he has been ruled out as a person of interest in this case at this time, so -- but

this is a very heavily wooded area, very remote, in a very, very out-of-the way place in -- in -- about 30 miles south of Detroit, near Lake Erie.

GRACE: Let`s take a look at the man last seen with Chelsea Bruck. Now, this is a sketch. We`re trying to disseminate it again tonight.

For those of you just joining us, the naked remains of Chelsea Bruck, last dressed as the super-villain Poison Ivy, the nemesis of Batman, have

been positively identified.

This is a possible suspect, white male, medium build, medium-length hair, thin mustache, facial hair, black-framed glasses wearing a hoodie

that night.

Now, let`s take a look at the registered sex offender map. Newport, Michigan, 136 registered sex offenders in just an eight-mile radius, nearly

200.

Now, Charlie Langton, this party, this Halloween blowout, had been publicized on Facebook. There`s nearly 200 sex offenders within eight

miles. You want to tell me some of them didn`t show up, Charlie?

LANGTON: There were over 800 people. Even the owner, Big Mike, as he`s known -- he`s kind of this singer/song writer kind of rock -- like

(INAUDIBLE) hard rock. Yes, he advertises it. The only rule to this party is no fighting. But he says, Come, bring your booze, $10 parking fee.

He`s got bonfires going. Yes, it started on Saturday and it went into the wee hours of the next morning.

GRACE: It`s huge. It`s huge...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: ... and this girl, who has lived at home with her parents her whole life, in school, working a job, A student, the works -- goes to this

party with her girlfriends.

Let me ask you this, Charlie Langton, Where is Chelsea`s body right now?

LANGTON: Right now, I believe it is still in the morgue because they`re still doing some more work on it. The autopsy has not yet been

done. We expect that to be done, though. But the cops are saying, though, that it`s going to take quite a while for the complete report to come back,

though. That`s where the body is right now.

Again, it was found naked, skeletonized, and just badly, badly decomposed so that the anthropologists had to come out and make the

positive identification through the dental records.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I did not see Chelsea at the party at all. I got there late. And I mean, it was -- I looked around. I couldn`t see

her. There were a lot of people. I mean, it was the most unsafe I`ve ever felt at one of Big Mike`s parties. There were fights broken out. I mean,

there were just too many people. And I didn`t know anyone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[20:18:19]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Authorities found a body in this heavily wooded area.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She disappeared from a party at a Monroe County farmhouse.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I did not see Chelsea at the party at all. There were a lot of people. It was the most unsafe I`ve ever felt.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now the news that body was hers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I believe the person was familiar with the railroad tracks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: As we go to air tonight, we learn the naked remains found in a heavily wooded area have been positively identified as those of Chelsea

Bruck.

Now, factor this in. Three women go missing in a very short space of time between October and December, all startlingly similar in their

appearance. One of them is Chelsea Bruck. I`m referring to Connie Snider (ph), Darlene Garcia (ph) and Chelsea Bruck. Now, one body was found.

That would have been Connie Snider. Her body was found just a couple of months ago. Now Chelsea Bruck`s still missing, Connie Snider -- still

missing. (sic)

What I`m trying to figure out -- to Charlie Langton. Three young ladies in a couple of months go missing. Two of the bodies have now been

found. One body is still missing. And they all look very similar. They go missing within a 10 or 20-mile radius. Now, that`s quite a coincidence,

isn`t it, Charlie?

LANGTON: It is a coincidence. And as you pointed out, in this small area in -- about 30 miles south of Detroit, anyway, there are a number of

sex offenders that have been registered, at least 136 sex offenders registered in an eight-mile radius in this particular area alone. So that

also raises some questions, as well.

[20:20:10]GRACE: You know, if she was totally skeletonized, Charlie Langton, WWJ, then how do we know that she didn`t have any clothes on?

Because if she was skeletonized, if there had been animal activity, her clothing could have been dragged off. So why do we believe she was left

naked?

LANGTON: That`s what the police are saying. They have brought in anthropologists. They brought in a number of people. They`ve had a number

of tips. Also, part of her costume was found earlier this month.

GRACE: Right.

LANGTON: But that`s what police are telling us, that this was a naked body found.

GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Randy Kessler, Atlanta, Eric Schwartzreich, Ft. Lauderdale. First to you, Kessler. I`ve prosecuted a

lot of murder cases where the bodies had been decomposed, had been skeletonized or partially skeletonized. And the fact that there were not

any clothes right there doesn`t necessarily mean that the person was naked.

Now, why do I care if she was naked? A, it gives me motive that this was a sex attack. That narrows it down to most likely a male attacker. We

know she disappeared from a party, which would suggest it was somebody at that party. But Randy Kessler, we also know that three other young women

have gone missing and believed dead. You know, one of their bodies has been found. Now Chelsea`s has been found. They weren`t all at the party.

So is it somebody at the party or is it a serial killer, rapist killer in the area?

RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You`re bringing up a lot of facts, but we really know nothing at this point. We don`t know...

GRACE: I know a lot.

KESSLER: ... who was around -- we don`t...

GRACE: We know a -- put him up. Kessler, we know a lot.

KESSLER: We don`t know what happened from the month that they found the clothes or the piece of ivy a month ago to they find her now. We don`t

know what happened between then. We don`t know what happened from when she left the party, if someone found her on the way home, if she did something,

if she went to meet somebody. There`s just so much -- the police may know something...

GRACE: OK, wa-wait, wa-wait!

KESSLER: ... but they`re not telling us.

GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait! Wa-wait! Stop the train! Schwartzreich, let`s take a look at what Kessler just said. Now, if she

went to go meet somebody, if somebody said to me, Hey, let`s go meet in a densely wooded area near some train tracks, I probably wouldn`t go, all

right? So I don`t know if we can start blaming the victim tonight about how her body ends up there.

What I was going to say earlier, Schwartzreich, is that even if there had been animal activity -- and that`s a euphemistic way of saying that

animals attacked her body -- you still would find the clothing in the general area -- shoes -- we know she left without a pocketbook, her purse

or a cell phone. She left those with a friend, I think.

But you would find something. You would find some piece of clothing, underwear, her bra. I -- I -- I -- something would be found in a general,

let me just say, 50-foot radius of her body, right, if she were not naked.

ERIC SCHWARTZREICH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Oh, you might think. But maybe. I mean, what we do have is conjecture. And I do agree with

Kessler, Grace, that we do have speculation. We don`t know if she was dressed when she was there. You would expect -- I do agree with you --

that perhaps there would be some clothes or you would see something. I am amazed that they were able to find this Poison Ivy leaf in a brushed area

like this...

GRACE: Well, hold on! Hold on!

SCHWARTZREICH: ... because it would probably look like the area.

GRACE: You know, Charlie Langton, WWJ, has reported that -- I believe it was Charlie -- Heather Walsh-Haney, forensic anthropologist, that that

was absolutely a piece of her outfit, all right, and it was about 10 miles away. So Heather Walsh-Haney, you have handled a lot of these cases. If a

body lies there clothed and undisturbed, even if animals get to it, you usually find some shred of clothing around it.

WALSH-HANEY: Yes. It`s been my experience that some article of clothing or personal effect will be present. Just everyone needs to take

the time to really search the scene and keep it from being compromised by looky-lous.

GRACE: And the point of that -- to Dr. Tim Gallagher, joining me out of Daytona Beach -- is contrary to what the lawyers say. And they bring up

valid points. I hear what they`re saying. But the fact that she`s out in a field naked to me screams sex attack.

That tells me there was one or more -- there were one or more males involved in this that could overpower her, and the motive was a sex attack

if she`s unclothed, Dr. Gallagher. You know, it`s not brain surgery. It`s kind of easy to figure out.

DR. TIM GALLAGHER, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST (via telephone): Thanks again for having me on the show, Nancy. I could not have said it any better

myself. You know, these findings are typical of a man overpowering a woman and sexually assaulting her.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[20:29:46]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In a small town, everybody knows everybody. And everybody goes to church together (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can`t give you the official cause of death at this time.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The end of the search for Chelsea, but just the beginning of the search for justice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: For those of you just joining us, as we go to air, we learn that the naked remains found in this densely wooded area have just been

positively identified as those of Chelsea Bruck. What we know of her -- quiet, homebody, lived with her parents, attended school, had a job, went

to a party with several of her girlfriends -- it was a big Halloween bash - - dressed as "Batman`s" nemesis Poison Ivy. She`s never seen alive again.

Then part of her outfit, some leaves from our outfit, found about 10 miles away.

Stacey Newman, I`ve been told that police absolutely confirm there is evidence on her costume. That`s got to be DNA evidence.

STACEY NEWMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: That`s right. And that evidence, Nancy, they said at this press conference, it`s visual evidence.

So you could see that with your naked eye when you look at the costume. And the evidence they have in this case is making them label this a

homicide.

GRACE: OK, what about that, Charlie Langton, WWJ, joining us? Evidence positively confirmed by police is on her costume. That says to me

there must be more of the costume somewhere, other than that one leaf.

[20:30:00]

Stacy, do we know if there`s more than one leaf?

NEWMAN: Here`s the thing, that distance between where the costume was found and the body was found, investigators say they have found clues along

the way, that eight-mile radius. I think you`re right about that.

GRACE: I got Charlie back. What can you tell me about the evidence on the outfit? It`s got to be DNA.

LANGTON: The police aren`t really telling the details, but they said there was evidence on the costume, and sources also say they found other

evidence before they found the costume. So it`s not like there`s no evidence in the case. But police officers do have some leads in the case.

But we don`t know exactly. They`re a little bit tight-lipped about exactly what evidence they have at this time.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:35:20]

GRACE: Live, Old Town Spring to a local music festival where a festival goer is viciously attacked by a deadly alligator at an alligator

roundup. The horrific attack caught on video. We have the video.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The trainer taps the 9-foot-long gator`s head several times, then suddenly, he snaps.

What you see in this video should never have happened. Look again. You`ll see Rex is trying to wrap his tail around the trainer`s head. If he

would have been successful, that could have killed him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The guy in the front says, are you ready? The guy in back thought he said go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do not mess with these alligators in the wild.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Okay. Candace Trunzo, senior news editor joining me from Dailymail.com, but first to Grey Stafford, Dr. Grey Stafford, director of

conservation from Wildlife World Zoo, an animal trainer. You know, Grey, Dr. Stafford, I don`t know why, you have an alligator with you. OK. I

don`t know why we keep referring to you as an animal trainer, because clearly alligators, I guess we`re referring to them as animals, cannot be

trained. What do you have with you?

DR. GREY STAFFORD, WILDLIFE WORLD ZOO: This is actually a 2-year-old alligator, only about two feet long. And I think even alligators can be

trained. The big difference of course is they can`t be tamed.

GRACE: Okay. What we just saw, Dr. Stafford, is an alligator attack.

STAFFORD: Yes.

GRACE: And this was at a local music and crawfish festival. Clearly, I, right there at the (inaudible), you clearly cannot train an alligator.

Why do we keep having alligator roundups, alligator farms? We`ve got video of that. Let`s see that, Justin, why do we keep doing this, Grey Stafford?

Oh, dear lord in heaven. As people line up to sue, why do we keep doing it, Grey?

STAFFORD: Your earlier guest was right. We shouldn`t be messing with these animals in the wild. Only people who are trained and experienced in

handling these animals should do it. But it is important to feature these animals, because they are a great ambassador for their species. Alligators

are very impressive animals. They`ve been around for millions of years, they came back from the brink of extinction. It`s a good story to tell,

but we have to do it in a safe way.

GRACE: I can`t understand what you`re saying, why basically a 500- pound set of teeth should be part of a show. Explain that to me.

STAFFORD: I don`t think an animal quite that large should be traveling to public events like fairs, but certainly an animal this size,

this little guy, he`s only about two feet long.

GRACE: I`m not talking about your pet. I`m talking about a man- eater, the kind of animals -- let`s pull out that animals attack montage, please. I`m talking about animals big enough to kill, big enough to crunch

down on this man`s arm about an inch from his artery and kill. That`s -- take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This ball (ph) python has been found alive inside of a cage.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A 3-foot alligator, 13 snakes, geckos and other reptiles all inside this Warwick apartment.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is an alligator in the back of the huber home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 3-foot alligator was found by a man in his own backyard.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 6-foot-long Burmese pythons officials removed from this garage.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (inaudible).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: With me right now, joining me from Beaumont, Texas is the owner of Gator Country, Gary Saurage. Mr. Saurage, people love Gator

Country, and this is where this attack occurred. In my mind, I don`t think anybody has a leg to stand on to sue, because when you decide that you`re

going to train alligators, that`s your decision, all right? Anybody in his right mind understands the risks associated with playing with or trying to

train gators. So what do you think happened? Is it true that the victim here actually stepped on the gator`s tail, Mr. Saurage?

[20:40:00]

SAURAGE: No, ma`am, Ms. Grace, first off, that was one of my animal trainers. Early on in the show it said that was a customer and one of the

fair goers.

GRACE: I thought this was at a festival. Was there not a music and crawfish festival going on?

SAURAGE: No, it is a festival. But that is a trainer that got (inaudible), not a customer.

GRACE: So he even attacked his own trainer?

SAURAGE: Absolutely. No question about it.

GRACE: I don`t think that`s a good thing, to attack your own trainer.

SAURAGE: So what`s your question about? I just wanted to make sure you know that was not, that was not a customer. That was my trainer.

GRACE: Okay. In my mind, that kind of makes -- ow, ooh, even worse. I was told that he stepped, ooh, on the gator`s tail. Is that true or not?

SAURAGE: Make no mistake. He made several mistakes handling that alligator. He`ll be the first to tell you that, he did. He didn`t step on

his tail, Ms. Grace. He stepped on his foot. That`s why you got the reaction from the animal that he got. He did not step on his tail. Watch

the video closely. He steps on his left foot.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:45:20]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: More than 100 people are watching as a trainer taps the 9-foot long gator`s head several times, then suddenly, he snaps.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining me, Randy Kessler, Atlanta. Eric Schwartzreisch, Ft. Lauderdale. I understand you two believe there is

plenty of grounds to sue. Mr. Saurage, I disagree with you, because anybody that gets around, tries to train, play with, gets in a cage with or

a pit with an alligator is assuming the risk.

SCHWARTZREISCH: You can assume the risk. If you wrestle with a pig, you`re going to get mud on you. If you wrestle with a lawyer, sometimes

the bite of that lawyer is going to be worse than the bite of the gator. Anyone in this country can sue anyone. Whether or not they assume the

risk. I don`t know what Gator Land did, I don`t know how responsible they were. I`m sure they are a responsible company. If this trainer wants to

bring a lawsuit, he`s entitled to bring a lawsuit. That`s what makes America tick. If that alligator that bit him, if that alligator was

dangerous, even though he knows that alligator is a dangerous animal, that alligator went after him, he can sue Gator Land and try to go after them

for damages.

GRACE: You know, Randy Kessler, what is not what makes America tick. That is why we have cases like Yost. Y-o-s-t, where you have to pay money

when you file frivolous lawsuits. You have to pay court costs, sometimes attorneys fees, because if you get into an alligator pit, and you get bit,

well, that`s your fault! That is not Mr. Saurage`s fault. And it`s even worse that it was a trainer.

KESSLER: You know, he`s right. Litigation does help make us better, because good litigation, when there`s investigation first, you make sure

there is grounds to litigate. Maybe there was poor training, maybe there were industry standards that weren`t met.

GRACE: Industry standards in an alligator pit?

KESSLER: Yes.

GRACE: What standard? They will eat you. Don`t get in. That`s a standard.

KESSLER: It`s going to be done, people enjoy watching it, so if it`s going to be done, let`s do it right.

SCHWARTZREISCH: Lawyers will eat you too, Nancy.

KESSLER: It`s got to be done safer.

GRACE: To Candace Trunzo, senior news editor, Dailymail.com. Candace, what are the facts?

TRUNZO: Well, the facts are that there were two trainers there. And they miscommunicated. They have to be in synch. There was not

communication between them. And to compound it all, one of the trainers stepped on the alligator`s foot, and that caused the alligator to lash out.

And you are dealing here with an animal that is totally unpredictable. And that is exactly what happened.

GRACE: Back to Grey Stafford, also with us, the owner of Gator Country, Gary Saurage, who has confirmed this is one of his trainers. This

is not a festival goer there at the music and crawfish festival. This is a guy that`s actually worked with an alligator before. And the alligator

still attacked him.

You know, Grey, it reminds me of the Siegfried & Roy incident, where their beloved Montecore (ph) turned around and attacked. They had been

training that gorgeous tiger for years, and it still attacked them. My point is, as you`re holding the alligator -- there you go, there`s

Siegfried & Roy`s show. This is their last performance. We got this video from ABC. Montecore turns and attacks his own beloved trainers, Siegfried

and Roy. As you recall, as you`re watching this, Grey, they would have the tigers in their home. They would sleep with the tigers. They would

socialize with the tigers. They were friends with the tigers. The tiger still did a near-deadly attack, which is why I don`t quite understand the

whole wild animal training phenomenon.

STAFFORD: Well, Nancy, I totally agree with what you said earlier, that we assume the risk to work with these animals. While we can minimize

the risk through training, there is always a small risk that something can happen, an accident like stepping on a foot. We don`t know exactly what

happened with the Siegfried & Roy story, but clearly in my 25 years of experience, usually the trainer is at fault. They made a mistake. They

lost focus, they stepped on a foot. It`s usually the trainer that is at fault.

GRACE: You know what, Gary Saurage with me, the owner of Gator Country in Beaumont, Texas. Thank you for being with us. What is the

training that your guys get?

SAURAGE: Ms. Grace, what we do, is we (inaudible) alligators from the state of Texas. When an alligator is in someone`s pool or pond or

backyard, our job is to go out there and safely remove the animal, so the animal does not get hurt or the people.

[20:50:00]

We do not dispatch or kill our alligators. We let them live here in our park. So they get all that training out in the community with

alligators. We catch alligators under water. We catch alligators in every position you could possibly imagine. And it`s a hell of a good service to

our community. However, it`s not a puppy dog. This is a very dangerous animal. Our trainers go through months and months of alligators in every

situation you could possibly imagine.

GRACE: Everyone, you are seeing caught on video, a deadly alligator, a vicious attack on a trainer. Now, this occurred at the crawfish and

music festival. Take a look at what happened. It was caught on video. Another question to Gary Saurage. I understand you`re the owner of Gator

Country, that you`re doing a service to others to get the alligator out of their pool or -- ow -- or off their property. But the training, that`s

what I`m asking you. How do you train anyone to be around a deadly animal like this? How much did that alligator weigh?

SAURAGE: That alligator weighed about 300 pounds, and the way you train to catch alligators is the same way you teach an electrician to deal

with electricity. When I tell you, you have to stay super focused and know exactly what you`re doing. I don`t know electricity, but I know when that

animal is about to move. My guy in the back did not communicate with my guy in the front. That`s all that happened. I think Grey will completely

agree with me, when I say these guys were not communicating. It happened. If you deal with --

GRACE: You go ahead and you blame the animal trainers, but I`m going to blame the 300-pound alligator that`s nothing but a set of teeth.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:56:00]

GRACE: Live, tony Wilmington, one of the country`s most elite prep schools, Tower Hill school, where the 55-year-old head master of nine years

busted on 2,000 plus images of horrific child porn.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A 55-year-old man is accused of having thousands of images of child pornography on his computer. The man, formerly a

headmaster at a prestigious private school. Police say thousands of child porn images are found. If convicted, the man could face 50 years behind

bars.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: You know, to Ashley Wilcott, child welfare law specialist, I don`t care what anybody says, you cannot tell me there`s not a connection

between child porn and child molestation.

ASHLEY WILCOTT, CHILD ADVOCATE: Well, Nancy, good evening. I don`t disagree with you. First of all, in these cases, someone is clearly

molesting these children. They are out in the community taking these pictures, taking these videos. So there`s absolutely molestation occurring

in every one of these cases, sometimes including rape of these children.

GRACE: Ashley Wilcott joining me, child welfare law specialist. Nell Gibbon, with me, psychotherapist. To say there`s no connection, and I`m

not saying this principal, this headmaster, molested these boys, but somebody did. He`s looking at the photos of little boys getting molested?

NELL GIBBON, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Yes. The problem is, there`s a lot of debate in the psychological community, Nancy, whether or not looking at

images of child pornography actually leads to the act of molesting children in the community.

GRACE: Yes, you can argue all you want to. Ben Levitan, telecommunications expert, there is no arguing what was downloaded off his

home computer.

LEVITAN: Absolutely not, Nancy. This was just pornography, and he tried to -- he tried to make sure that forensic experts would not be able

to retrieve it.

GRACE: What do you mean by that? What do you mean by that?

LEVITAN: Well, Nancy, we know if you delete a file off your computer, it really doesn`t go away. It gets pushed to the back and it stays there.

It just kind of marks it as unused.

GRACE: Right.

LEVITAN: Kind of like all the shoes you have in your closet. There`s a bunch you never use. You don`t throw them away until you need that space

again.

GRACE: Solomon Jones, morning host, WURD, what happened?

JONES: What happened was that there were three complaints that were against him, from years ago, from as far back as 30 years ago by three men,

who decided after another case came out that they were going to go forward and that they were going to confront him about what he did. Police were

looking for evidence that he was trying to buy those men off. They went into his home, they found these images of child pornography on his computer

while he was trying to delete them, and then they went forward with that case, rather than with the charges that the men were accusing him of from

years ago.

GRACE: Headmaster, at the elite prep school, busted on child porn.

Let`s stop and remember American hero Marine Private First Class Christopher Riviere, 21, Cooper City, Florida, Purple Heart, National

Defense Service Medal, buried Arlington. Loved the UM Hurricanes and the Miami Dolphins. Mother Margaret, stepfather James, two sisters.

Christopher Riviere, American hero.

And tonight, congratulations to our friend, defense attorney, Trinity Hundredmark and husband Joe on the birth of their baby boy, Lachlan. Isn`t

he beautiful? Happy birthday to our friend, forensic anthropologist Heather Walsh Haney. Drew up next. See you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp

Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.

END